Unpopular Opinions

Apprentice79 · February 26, 2017

I always felt that Phoebe should have been a social worker eventually becoming a psychologist. Out of all the sisters in the original power of three, she was the most empathetic and the one who always wanted to help innocents. It would have been a good way to incorporate her growing powers to her work organically. Melinda Warren said that her powers were meant to heal. The same thing applies to Prue and Piper. Both should have remained in their season 1 professions and grow from there.

I liked Paige, but, I always wanted the show to continue with Prue. The original dynamic was so awesome. I also wished that the sisters' powers would have grown the way that Constance Burge envisioned for the series. I thought Prue's powers grew naturally and fit her. Whereas, Piper and Phoebe's were out of whack. So much could have been done with their first powers. Freezing time and premonitions could have grown to a tremendous level and the writers never did anything with them. Piper should have been able to rewind, show down and fast forward time at will. At her most powerful, she should be able to project herself and others in time. Phoebe should have been able to get premonitions on command . I liked how in the power of 2 in season 1, she was starting to do that. Their second powers were awful and random.

Lady Calypso · February 26, 2017

2 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I thought Prue's powers grew naturally and fit her. Whereas, Piper and Phoebe's were out of whack. So much could have been done with their first powers. Freezing time and premonitions could have grown to a tremendous level and the writers never did anything with them. Piper should have been able to rewind, show down and fast forward time at will. At her most powerful, she should be able to project herself and others in time. Phoebe should have been able to get premonitions on command . I liked how in the power of 2 in season 1, she was starting to do that. Their second powers were awful and random.

I agree, and Phoebe's third power was just an odd choice, especially where she was at that point in her life. I think they tried to explain Piper's second power as being connected to her first through the ability to speed up molecules instead of slowing them down. But really, I think it was just their easy choice in having demons get blown up and having the sisters not take forever to make potions, create spells, and find other means to kill demons. It allowed them to have more demons around to attack, but it also led to them having to explain that Piper could only blow up lower level demons, while upper level demons were just wounded.

Whereas Phoebe had premonitions, levitation, and empathy. For me, these are three very different powers that don't quite connect in the way that they could. Levitation was not a good power, but I feel like because they introduced the possibility back in the Mortality Bites episode, they were leading toward that future with Phoebe's new powers before they dropped the future power that she had that killed Cal Green.

Prue's two powers definitely made more sense. Her telekinesis and her astral projection were all connected to her mind, and it fit her personality the best. We saw her growing her powers and had she not died--and Brad Kern not took over the show--, we probably would have seen even more growth. We might have even seen her be able to use her telekinesis in astral projection mode, like they implied would eventually happen in Primrose Empath.

But the show really dropped the ball on the legacy of the Charmed Ones. At some point, they stopped being these all powerful witches that would save the world and they became just ordinary witches that just had a couple of cool powers. It didn't help when the sisters (Piper/Phoebe) stopped fighting so hard to save the innocents and just wanted to retire after eight years, as if their legacy meant nothing and anyone else could take it up. At least we saw Paige take up Prue's "superwitch" mantle, in a sense where she was always dedicated to the craft and to the legacy in some way.

Apprentice79 · February 26, 2017

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I agree, and Phoebe's third power was just an odd choice, especially where she was at that point in her life. I think they tried to explain Piper's second power as being connected to her first through the ability to speed up molecules instead of slowing them down. But really, I think it was just their easy choice in having demons get blown up and having the sisters not take forever to make potions, create spells, and find other means to kill demons. It allowed them to have more demons around to attack, but it also led to them having to explain that Piper could only blow up lower level demons, while upper level demons were just wounded.

Whereas Phoebe had premonitions, levitation, and empathy. For me, these are three very different powers that don't quite connect in the way that they could. Levitation was not a good power, but I feel like because they introduced the possibility back in the Mortality Bites episode, they were leading toward that future with Phoebe's new powers before they dropped the future power that she had that killed Cal Green.

Prue's two powers definitely made more sense. Her telekinesis and her astral projection were all connected to her mind, and it fit her personality the best. We saw her growing her powers and had she not died--and Brad Kern not took over the show--, we probably would have seen even more growth. We might have even seen her be able to use her telekinesis in astral projection mode, like they implied would eventually happen in Primrose Empath.

But the show really dropped the ball on the legacy of the Charmed Ones. At some point, they stopped being these all powerful witches that would save the world and they became just ordinary witches that just had a couple of cool powers. It didn't help when the sisters (Piper/Phoebe) stopped fighting so hard to save the innocents and just wanted to retire after eight years, as if their legacy meant nothing and anyone else could take it up. At least we saw Paige take up Prue's "superwitch" mantle, in a sense where she was always dedicated to the craft and to the legacy in some way.

I love your post. I believe that season 3 under Constance Burge would have been very different. 3 being the magical number. I do think that the sisters would have been in a totally different place when it comes to their powers. I have always felt that the reason that Piper got the blowing up power was because that Brad Kern had already decided to get rid of Prue at the end of season 3. It also made Piper the most powerful in the new power of three with Paige.

Levitation to me is something that Prue could do because she has telekinesis. It should never have been a separate power in the collective of the power of three. Phoebe did levitate in the future when she killed Cal Greene. I always fanwanked that Phoebe casted a spell to be able to do that. Phoebe was the best spell caster. Due to the Book of shadows, the sisters have access to all types of spells to help them fight demons and warlocks. It is why everybody wanted the book, it means access to unbelievable power. The show made the sisters ordinary witches, instead of the most powerful witches that the world has ever known. The sisters powers were not unique because we saw demons and warlocks with their powers. What set them apart was that in the charmed ones, their powers would be totally different and they would be able to do things that nobody else would be able to do. Not even their descendants. I hated that Wyatt made the sisters irrelevant. I hated how the sisters depended on Leo to help them with their problems. I liked the fact that in season 1, we saw the sisters figuring things out and saving innocents and themselves via their intuition and powers.

Iknewyoucoulddoit · February 27, 2017

Bless you all for letting us vent and confess here without consequences!

Piper is my favorite sister and possibly my favorite female TV character. I agree so vehemently with people who say she's neurotic, insecure and has major anxiety, which accounts for some of the fear-driven pessimism and moodiness that people dislike but which make her so relatable to me. She feels so deeply in ways that are beautiful while also making life more difficult for her. Few TV characters are allowed to be so emotional. She's sentimental and romantic no matter how cynical she starts to seem. She does have a strong desire to uphold tradition and maintain what she considers normalcy which can make her seem rigid and even selfish, but ultimately she almost always puts the needs of others above her own and is so generous and caring no matter how much she snipes and snarks along the way. She's so complex, flawed yet not just lovable but actualy inspirational to me. Now I know which character I'm using as my profile picture here!

Piper/Leo is one of my favorite romantic relationships ever. I understand the complaints about them and don't mean to invalidate the criticisms. But I can almost feel how deeply they love each other, as corny and dumb as I know that sounds, and I think his optimism, calm gentleness and idealism helps her while her mix of compassion and down to earth practicality is just what he needs as well.

Phoebe is an amazing character the first two seasons and literally like an entirely different person to me later on.

I absolutely love Leo despite agreeing that he was used too much as an exposition-delivering messenger between the sisters and the ever annoying elders.

Jack himself was kind of an annoying idiot, but I love the idea of Prue being with exactly that type of carefree, funloving and uninhibited guy.

I'm not a Paige hater at all and find her a lot easier to like than Phoebe in later seasons but I agree that she could seem like a Phoebe redux, and we all know that sequels are never quite as good as the originals, lol. To no fault of her own, Paige did seem to siphon away a lot of the traits that made Phoebe unique and lovable when the series began because apparently the writers couldn't create an entirely new and original character. Did they really need to make Paige a free spirited reforming wild child who was very independent, rebellious, instinctive, enthusiastic about witchcraft, compassionate and driven to help people? As other people have said, that's early Phoebe to a tee, and the new Phoebe became this woman obsessed with a career and starting a traditional family, which just wasn't her. But anyway, my real unpopular opinion about Paige is that I always thought she seemed like someone who would have thrived more on her own, like if she could just do her own whitelighter/witch hybrid thing and check in with her sisters whenever needed instead of living there and being a constant part of their trio. Prue, for all her independence and bossiness, lived for her sisters and defined herself based primarily on her role as the oldest, for better or for worse. Paige didn't have that same connection that the rest of them did or value the whole forever together sisterhood stuff as much, and while I certainly get it and am not judging Paige in any way, especially since I'm more of a lone wolf myself, to me the show suffered from how the sisters never seemed as authentically bonded and united once Prue was gone.

I'm sure I have more and will be back once I remember them!

Kohola3 · February 27, 2017

5 hours ago, Iknewyoucoulddoit said:

Piper is my favorite sister and possibly my favorite female TV character.

Table for two!

Iknewyoucoulddoit · February 27, 2017

Kohola3, can we get Piper to bring some of her amazing food to our table? Piper is a lot easier for me to love than Lorelai and Rory are now. Do you share that opinion?! Actually, all the Halliwells are a lot easier for me to love than the Gilmores, and that includes Phoebe at her worst. Do you also love Leo or is that a table I'll have to sit at alone? :)

A different unpopular opinion is that Cole is a little creepy and shifty to me even when he's not supposed to be and I don't see this great epic love between him and Phoebe even when they're at their best. I wish I did so that I could enjoy those episodes more, but to me the show told us how in love they were rather than showing it develop. Most people think they ruined Cole and Phoebe/Cole in S5 but from the time we found out who he really was in S3, I hoped Phoebe would run in the other direction regardless of whether being evil was his fault.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Iknewyoucoulddoit

Kohola3 · February 27, 2017

7 minutes ago, Iknewyoucoulddoit said:

Piper is a lot easier for me to love than Lorelai and Rory are now. Do you share that opinion?!

Lord, yes! And a Piper recipe with wine would be delish.

8 minutes ago, Iknewyoucoulddoit said:

Do you also love Leo or is that a table I'll have to sit at alone?

I do! I think he was adorable and they were the sweetest couple together. And not sure what they did with those kids off camera but they both seemed so comfortable with Piper and Leo on screen. A lot of time babies and toddlers are actively looking around for their parents during filming but not those two.

I only liked Cole at the very end when he was certifiable and said so.

Apprentice79 · February 28, 2017

7 hours ago, Iknewyoucoulddoit said:

Kohola3, can we get Piper to bring some of her amazing food to our table? Piper is a lot easier for me to love than Lorelai and Rory are now. Do you share that opinion?! Actually, all the Halliwells are a lot easier for me to love than the Gilmores, and that includes Phoebe at her worst. Do you also love Leo or is that a table I'll have to sit at alone? :)

A different unpopular opinion is that Cole is a little creepy and shifty to me even when he's not supposed to be and I don't see this great epic love between him and Phoebe even when they're at their best. I wish I did so that I could enjoy those episodes more, but to me the show told us how in love they were rather than showing it develop. Most people think they ruined Cole and Phoebe/Cole in S5 but from the time we found out who he really was in S3, I hoped Phoebe would run in the other direction regardless of whether being evil was his fault.

In hindsight, I think that Constance Burge was right that Cole was not good for the character development of Phoebe and her sisters. In fact, Brad Kern not advancing her premonition powers made Cole able to fool Phoebe and her sisters. Phoebe's premonitions were growing steadily and surely in the first two seasons. A simple touch gave her lots of information. I even remember her examining a premonition closely in season 1 to get information to locate a missing Piper who was kidnapped in dead man dating. Phoebe being in such close proximity to Cole should have given her lots of premonitions about him and his motives. Now, I understand why Constance did not want Cole and it led to her contentious departure from the show.

Esmeralda · February 28, 2017

Connie wanted Cole - she just didn't want him as a half- demon - she wanted him as a full one who wouldn't truly love Phoebe but only use her - and she only wanted him to be part of one season, the way she wanted Leo to only be part of S1 with Prue and Andy - a mortal - as the "it" couple who would always be lovers but never get married or have kids unless Andy married and had kids with someone else - an even bigger heartache for Prue. Just think how different/better Charmed might have been had all of that happened.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Esmeralda

Apprentice79 · February 28, 2017

2 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

Connie wanted Cole - she just didn't want him as a half- demon - she wanted him as a full one who wouldn't truly love Phoebe but only use her - and she only wanted him to be part of one season, the way she wanted Leo to only be part of S1 with Prue and Andy - a mortal - as the "it" couple who would always be lovers but never get married or have kids unless Andy married and had kids with someone else - an even bigger heartache for Prue. Just think how different/better Charmed might have been had all of that happened.

That would have been cool to see. I wish that Connie had been able to run the show as she envisioned. Plus, Connie based the show on her and her older sisters. So, I am pretty sure she had a plan for all three sisters that was radically different from what we saw under Brad Kern.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Apprentice79

Esmeralda · March 2, 2017

On 2/28/2017 at 10:26 AM, Apprentice79 said:

That would have been cool to see. I wish that Connie had been able to run the show as she envisioned. Plus, Connie based the show on her and her older sisters. So, I am pretty sure she had a plan for all three sisters that was radically different from what we saw under Brad Kern.

I think so, too. It would've been interesting to find out what exactly she had in mind had Ted King decided to stay and not leave the series, thinking that Andy would always be overshadowed by the sisters. That would've meant that Leo only would've been part of S1, making his and Piper's love story my favorite on the series rather than one of my least-favorites (along with Cole and Phoebe). It also probably means we never would've known about Sam and then what would they do when they decided to fire Shannen???

But you're right - the fact that Connie could base the sisters on herself and her sisters is what helped make the show be about three sisters who happened to be witches rather than three demon-slayers who happened to be related with the show much more based on reality rather than which Big Bad do we battle next.

Of course all of this had just as much to do with what The WB wanted as what Kern wanted - I'll always say that The WB was the Source while Kern was just Shax. What Kern truly wanted when he wasn't being told what to do by Spelling and The WB we'll probably never know, since you really can't believe any of the spin that anyone puts out.

Apprentice79 · March 2, 2017

2 hours ago, Esmeralda said:

I think so, too. It would've been interesting to find out what exactly she had in mind had Ted King decided to stay and not leave the series, thinking that Andy would always be overshadowed by the sisters. That would've meant that Leo only would've been part of S1, making his and Piper's love story my favorite on the series rather than one of my least-favorites (along with Cole and Phoebe). It also probably means we never would've known about Sam and then what would they do when they decided to fire Shannen???

But you're right - the fact that Connie could base the sisters on herself and her sisters is what helped make the show be about three sisters who happened to be witches rather than three demon-slayers who happened to be related with the show much more based on reality rather than which Big Bad do we battle next.

Of course all of this had just as much to do with what The WB wanted as what Kern wanted - I'll always say that The WB was the Source while Kern was just Shax. What Kern truly wanted when he wasn't being told what to do by Spelling and The WB we'll probably never know, since you really can't believe any of the spin that anyone puts out.

I think that the series under Connie would have been so awesome. I would have preferred that Andy be in Leo's place in the series. Andy had a lifelong bond with all three sisters. I also think that Connie's presence would have kept Shannon on the show. I am also curious about how she would have advanced the sisters' original powers, especially, the other powers that the sisters were supposed to get. Their collective 9 powers would have truly made them the most powerful witches that the world has ever known. Cal Greene and others like him would have been potential foils for the sisters, not just generic demons who just threw fireballs that we got ad nauseam during the later seasons. Could any of the sisters actually kill an evil human being? what would be the fallout from that? Given what they experienced in Morality bites. I also think that we would have met other Halliwell witches via Gram's brother, their uncle. What Halliwell power would he have? How would she write Phoebe's descent into evil. I have a feeling that Cole would not have been the catalyst for that, since she did not want Cole to be a big part of the show. It probably would be organic to who Phoebe was, as a person. I also wanted Phoebe to orchestrate the source's demise with her advanced premonition powers. Phoebe always coveted her sisters' powers and felt that she was not as powerful as them. That would be the ultimate icing on the cake for season 1 Phoebe, to know that she brought value to the power of 3. So many possibilities that were loss with Connie's departure...

Edited March 2, 2017 by Apprentice79

Esmeralda · March 2, 2017

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

I think that the series under Connie would have been so awesome. I would have preferred that Andy be in Leo's place in the series. Andy had a lifelong bond with all three sisters. I also think that Connie's presence would have kept Shannon on the show. I am also curious about how she would have advanced the sisters' original powers, especially, the other powers that the sisters were supposed to get. Their collective 9 powers would have truly made them the most powerful witches that the world has ever known. Cal Greene and others like him would have been potential foils for the sisters, not just generic demons who just threw fireballs that we got ad nauseam during the later seasons. Could any of the sisters actually kill an evil human being? what would be the fallout from that? Given what they experienced in Morality bites. I also think that we would have met other Halliwell witches via Gram's brother, their uncle. What Halliwell power would he have? How would she write Phoebe's descent into evil. I have a feeling that Cole would not have been the catalyst for that, since she did not want Cole to be a big part of the show. It probably would be organic to who Phoebe was, as a person. I also wanted Phoebe to orchestrate the source's demise with her advanced premonition powers. Phoebe always coveted her sisters' powers and felt that she was not as powerful as them. That would be the ultimate icing on the cake for season 1 Phoebe, to know that she brought value to the power of 3. So many possibilities that were loss with Connie's departure...

If Connie was in charge, I don't think Gordon Halliwell (the sisters' great-uncle - Penny's brother, not Patty's) - would've had any powers - she wanted the Warren powers to be for women only, even though she made it clear that men in other lines could have them - part of why I'm sure that had any of the Charmed Ones have kids, it would've been a daughter. But like Penny, he might have had a daughter or granddaughters who would (in a "Forever Charmed" rewrite that I love, we find out that Christy and Billie are also Warrens - they're Gordon's grandchildren, so they're second-cousins of the Charmed Ones, hence why they're so powerful. Had their parents had one more child, they might have been more powerful than the Charmed Ones - they aren't in that version. I can *so* see Connie doing something like that. And you better believe Connie never would've had the Charmed Ones vanquish their cousins *or* even set up someone like Rick Guttridge to be murdered just to save a Halliwell - or have a Halliwell kill a Valkryie just to save a Halliwell - or have Halliwells soul-rape Darryl - taking his soul without his permission just to save Leo.

Now all of this is just my own speculation - I have no proof that this is what Connie would've done, but based on what she did in the first couple of seasons and what I've read, it's what I think. I don't think her version would've lasted more than four seasons, but what a better set of seasons we might have gotten!

Apprentice79 · March 2, 2017

47 minutes ago, Esmeralda said:

If Connie was in charge, I don't think Gordon Halliwell (the sisters' great-uncle - Penny's brother, not Patty's) - would've had any powers - she wanted the Warren powers to be for women only, even though she made it clear that men in other lines could have them - part of why I'm sure that had any of the Charmed Ones have kids, it would've been a daughter. But like Penny, he might have had a daughter or granddaughters who would (in a "Forever Charmed" rewrite that I love, we find out that Christy and Billie are also Warrens - they're Gordon's grandchildren, so they're second-cousins of the Charmed Ones, hence why they're so powerful. Had their parents had one more child, they might have been more powerful than the Charmed Ones - they aren't in that version. I can *so* see Connie doing something like that. And you better believe Connie never would've had the Charmed Ones vanquish their cousins *or* even set up someone like Rick Guttridge to be murdered just to save a Halliwell - or have a Halliwell kill a Valkryie just to save a Halliwell - or have Halliwells soul-rape Darryl - taking his soul without his permission just to save Leo.

Now all of this is just my own speculation - I have no proof that this is what Connie would've done, but based on what she did in the first couple of seasons and what I've read, it's what I think. I don't think her version would've lasted more than four seasons, but what a better set of seasons we might have gotten!

I actually think that her version would have lasted 5 seasons maybe 6. I don't think that she would have saddled all of the sisters with kids and husbands. All of the sisters having three kids by Kern was lame as a homage to the power of 3.

Lady Calypso · March 2, 2017

7 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I actually think that her version would have lasted 5 seasons maybe 6. I don't think that she would have saddled all of the sisters with kids and husbands. All of the sisters having three kids by Kern was lame as a homage to the power of 3.

The having three kids part was just so dumb. I could have never pictured Paige with three kids. Piper was understandable; at that point, she already had Wyatt and Chris and she's the most capable of having three kids and enjoying it. Phoebe should have only had two, and Paige probably would have been just fine with one.

But yeah, I get that the sisters were older and it was time to settle down, but it definitely felt forced and rushed in the last season, at least it did with Phoebe. It was clear Coop was an add on since the first few episodes dealt with freaking Dex, and that became a total waste of time. I truly liked Paige and Henry, but I also think that they didn't need to be married by the end of the series to be happy. I see Paige as more of a free spirit anyway, so having them just dating all season would have been enough.

Esmeralda · March 3, 2017

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

The having three kids part was just so dumb. I could have never pictured Paige with three kids. Piper was understandable; at that point, she already had Wyatt and Chris and she's the most capable of having three kids and enjoying it. Phoebe should have only had two, and Paige probably would have been just fine with one.

But yeah, I get that the sisters were older and it was time to settle down, but it definitely felt forced and rushed in the last season, at least it did with Phoebe. It was clear Coop was an add on since the first few episodes dealt with freaking Dex, and that became a total waste of time. I truly liked Paige and Henry, but I also think that they didn't need to be married by the end of the series to be happy. I see Paige as more of a free spirit anyway, so having them just dating all season would have been enough.

I agree with all of this except for Piper. She's the one who I think should've been like Prue in the 'Morality Bites' universe - happier as a businesswoman with a slew of restaurants as compared to a wife and mother. But once she had the two sons, I could see her trying again for her daughter.

Had Prue lived I don't think she would've married or if she had, I don't think she'd have kids. Although I think she would've made the best mother of the four, after taking care of her sisters for so long I can see her wanting a break.

I loved Henry and Paige as a couple and can see them fostering kids as compared to having some of their own since both are adopted themselves.

Phoebe, I would hope would never become a mother - she's too self-centered and it would probably be her kids who would end up going evil (I like thinking that her three daughters are the Cursed Ones rather than the new Charmed Ones) and I would hope whoever she married (NOT COOP!) wouldn't be able to give her her daughter but instead would make her the center of the universe - perfect for the true baby of the family.

I just can't see any of them happy as mothers, especially mothers to a magical child. It's why I'll continue to think that 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper', I mean 'Forever Charmed' is Piper's delusion as she dies after the explosion in 'Kill Billie, Vol 2' - seeing her Dream Life and what she thinks her sisters would want, not what really happened.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Esmeralda

Esmeralda · March 22, 2017

Not sure how unpopular these opinions are, but I found it at a different site from a number of years ago and I still agree with it, so I'm curious what the rest of you think.

At that site, someone asked:

If after Season 7 had already been aired and you were asked how you wanted Charmed to end (no need to worry about how they get there...that's up to the writers...) would you have had them ending with:

-Piper and Leo still married with Piper having her restaurant and Leo not gotten his wings back yet but teaching kids at the magic school, and three kids, Wyatt, Chris and a girl;

-Phoebe still at the Bay Mirror and written a best-selling book on finding love after marrying a cupid and they now have three daughters;

-Paige more of a whitelighter than a witch, now teaching witches how to be witches, married to a parole officer with a son named Henry Jr. and twin girls.

-(No need to name any of the girls - the show never did...)
or would you have had them end differently, and if so, how?

And I replied:

Me, I'd have Leo having gone back to being a handyman, with Dan Gordon as his foreman (and he never asked to see Leo's references...) while Piper sold P3 and used the money to start a catering service out of the Manor so she can cook at home; with just the two boys whose powers are bound until they're old enough to handle them, meaning they could have a normal childhood, going to a normal school (Magic School no longer exists...)

When they are old enough to have their powers unbound and become the Chosen Sons (not Charmed because they're not Charmed since there's just two of them so they can't access the Power of Three and are never as powerful as their mother and her sisters could've been...), Prue becomes their whitelighter so they will never fall in love with their whitelighter and instead will be taught how to use their powers properly - to protect innocents, not to just battle demons. Thanks to her, they never use their powers to murder non-magicals or fellow witches... Unlike S6 Chris, they never forget that the wrong thing done for the right reason is still the wrong thing.

I'd have Phoebe a single mother with Ladybug (who's her father? Who cares? Phoebe certainly didn't...) and still working at the Bay Mirror as "Ask Phoebe", but never writing a book on how to find love since she never does except for herself. Ladybug (whose full name is Phoebe Halliwell II) would only inherit her mother's power of premonitions and her Aunt Prue would teach her how to use them to show her cousins, the Chosen Sons, who needs help. Like them, she can't become Charmed with them, since they're her cousins and not her sisters.

I'd never have Phoebe run into Cole again - she doesn't deserve him.

I'd have Paige having never gotten any charges and instead going back to South Bay Social Services where she becomes a full social worker. I'd want her to meet and marry Henry (who is still a parole officer) through this, but rather than having kids, have them adopt a non-magical boy and girl who are siblings. Thanks to their Aunt Prue, they’d help the Chosen Sons in non-magical ways, like through their jobs or researching. Paige would cast a spell on them to be sure that evil couldn’t get back at the Chosen Sons by doing something to them or Henry.

Oh, and based on one of my favorite stories, the Elders are no longer around - now GRAMS is in charge Up There....the reason why Prue agreed to become a whitelighter...

Very obviously, Billie, Christy, Dex (unless it's for a single episode where he provides the sperm that lets Phoebe have Ladybug) and Coop never existed...

How 'bout you?

lostandfound · April 13, 2017

I watch this show every morning on TNT, and it's so addictive that it should come with a warning label :-)

Disorganized, incoherent unpopular opinions:

Maybe it's because I'm the oldest in my family and just plain old, period, but I nearly always understand where Prue is coming from and have found her less judgmental and inflexible than I'd remembered. I always liked her, but now I love her. Her being bossy, stubborn and prideful are flaws that keep her from being a Mary Sue and which make her entertaining to me, and like others have said, she's got so many attributes that I admire.

I'm in the camp who feels Piper didn't change that drastically after Prue' death because she was always tense, sarcastic, easily frustrated and very critical, even in the first season. Occasionally I want to tell her to just buck up and try to go two episodes without complaining about how much she wants a normal life, but I find her a really interesting and deep character, a combination of bitter edges and soft sensitivity that you don't often see on TV.

It made me smile to see that my opinion of Phoebe isn't too unpopular around here: loved her the first two seasons, liked her a little less when Cole came on the scene, and had trouble still retaining any affection for her by the fifth season. By then she seemed like a different person. I like the theory floated about how they gave Paige so many of Phoebe's initial characteristics that they no longer had any clue how to write Phoebe - and the sibling dynamics in general.

I have trouble solidifying my opinion of Paige because I didn't love any aspect of Charmed as much by the time she came on the show, including how they wrote the sisters. I'll echo that Paige was usually likable but inconsistent and that the Halliwells' dynamics worked much better with the original power of three. I felt like I knew them as individuals and as a group so much better during the seasons Prue was there, with a much clearer idea of how each Halliwell would react to certain situations and how they connected, clashed and balanced one another out as a unit.

While rewatching, it surprised me to remember that Paige was on the show for a season longer than Prue was, because those first few seasons made a much greater impression on me and are still what automatically comes to mind when I think of Charmed.

The first season is definitely my favorite. I think I'd rank the seasons S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8. Not a very cretaive ranking :-)

I'm in agreement with the poster who wished that P3 had never come to be, especially not for the entire series. Maybe it's because I'm old, but I didn't like the music or the setting, and I agree that running a nightclub seemed like a very bizarre career choice for Piper, who doesn't like noise, chaos, or that type of social scene. She didn't seem to enjoy the club much more than I did, and it became another item on the long list of things she'd frequently complain about.

The best part of reading this section was seeing that others loved the idea of Piper with Mark Chao from Dead Man Dating! I wish he had been her primary love interest. Nothing against Leo, who was likable if not very interesting, but I didn't think they worked well as a couple.

While rewatching I realized that I don't love any of the romances other than Piper's single episode affair with the naturally charismatic but dead Mark Chao. Prue and Andy had potential, but something prevented me from becoming too attached to them, and not just the fact that I now know he dies at the end of the first season. I don't like Cole even as a human and most of his relationship with Phoebe makes me cringe, but I agree that he was unexpectedly fun to watch as a raving lunatic in Season 5. The sisters' other boyfriends all blur together for me. It's safe to say I think the writers almost always did a significantly better job writing female characters than male characters, even when it comes to female characters who weren't on for longer than an episode or two and male characters who were on quite a bit, like Jason or Paige's Season 6 boyfriend whose name I can't even remember. It's an interesting and in some ways refreshing reversal since many other shows do a better job wriitng for males and reduce the females to being bland significant others.

I wanted to love Chris, but I thought the actor who played him was terrible, there were too many issues with the plot and pace of his storyline, and I didn't see enough of his relationships with any of the sisters, even Piper, for me to feel as invested as I wanted to.

I saved my deepest one for last: I definitely prefer Paige as a brunette and thought she looked gorgeous in the last two seasons. They all looked gorgeous the last two seasons, or maybe I just had more time to focus on shallow things like the Halliwells' appearances since I'd tuned out to most other aspects of the show by then.

Esmeralda · April 15, 2017

I've just read the second issue of the Dynamite comics and I have a hunch my opinion of the two will be unpopular. I didn't post my review of the first issue which I posted at another site before so I'll first post that.

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I got my copy of Dynamite's Charmed #1 today and it's obviously an alternate-universe one because so far there's been no mention of the kids (YAY!) and Leo is still a whitelighter (YAY!), but Paige has a new charge she has to go mentor (BOO!)

Typical that in some panels they look a lot like the actors and in others, you have to figure it out. This one does the best of making Phoebe look like Alyssa, although in some I could swear she's being played by Jennifer Love Hewitt, which to me is funny since she's the one I would've liked to see play Paige and was Kern's first choice for Paige.

What's mainly going on is Real Life is catching up to the three for various reason (Piper's stuck with doing taxes for P3, the Bay Mirror wants Phoebe to handle more responsibilities including a large book of rules and regulations, and Paige has her charges) and a demon wants to use this to get to them by possessing people in their lives, like (the first victim), Piper's accountant who Phoebe has a premonition of him stabbing Piper.

As one demon puts it, "Think of all the times you've failed to kill the Charmed Ones. Have you ever thought why? I think the answer is twofold. One, you're too impatient. And two...unlike many of you demons, I was once a mortal. True, it's been centuries [which I take to mean he's *not* Cole, but *might* be Zankou], but I still know what humans want. I know their needs...their desires. They want friendship, love...but most of all, they want comfortable lives, equipped with all their precious toys. They want the glitz and glamour so they show each other up. Every demon and warlock, no matter the caste, gains power from the souls of innocents. So I'll not only provide you with the souls to strengthen yourselves...but I'll give you a portal to their world where you can feasts on souls as long as they're plentiful. Teach a demon to fish, and all that."

I have a hunch whoever this demon is, he's going to make a heckova Big Bad and I can't wait for the next issue!

Then yesterday I saw this:

Quote

@RbrewerByron interviewed @EricaSchultz42 about Charmed #4. Here is what Erica said about the issue:

"The Charmed universe is pretty expansive, so it’s not about bringing something in that I haven’t yet. I’d say if there was something I didn’t want to bring in it was Magic School and Piper and Leo’s sons, Wyatt and Christopher. I really wanted to focus on the sisters and their relationship with each other, as well as how they work together as witches without the complication of babies and teaching other “students.” And Dynamite has been really easy going, giving me leeway in writing this story, so that’s been great."

"In issue #4, we take a trip into the 16th century and explore Djall’s back story.

This is the beginning of Paige’s relationship with Piper and Phoebe and as we saw in the show during that period of their lives they are still having fights and trying to understand each other. It is nice to revisit that part of Charmed because despite their problems, the sisters have a great bond that is shown in the issue clearly.

Maria Sanapo’s art and likenesses in #2 continue to be very accurate and especially shine when there are close ups of the characters. Heartwork studios’ colors compliment Sanapo’s art with a highlight being the coloring of the powers and special effects.

Erica Schultz never wastes a panel here. Every single panel is used to the maximum. You will not see a double page spread or a single panel page and while they are nice to have, it helps not having them in the early stages of the series because it helps move the plot further. The pace of the issue is fast to the point I found myself double reading some parts because of everything that was happening in a small number of panels from Phoebe having a premonition to the girls casting spells to the Demons plotting their next move.

#2 has what a Charmed fan needs. The sisters dealing with their everyday lives, a Demon threat in the works, searching the Book of Shadows, the show’s traditional corny spells etc.

Charmed #2 is out on April 12th.[/quote]

Source: https://charmedcomicfan11.jimdo.com/2017/04/11/advance-review-charmed-2/

Well, reading that, I was *very* excited about getting #2. But as I said, I got it today

Well, having read part of the next issue (I bought it yesterday and read it on the bus and hadn't finished it by the time I got off the bus and found it boring enough that I didn't finish it when I got in my apartment. I'll finish it, sure, but I don't know when), I definitely think this is an alternate universe that isn't restricted by canon. It features Paige so it can't be S1-3. Cole is nowhere around (YAY!) so it can't be S4 (YAY!) and Erika has made it clear that Piper's not pregnant so it can't be S5-8. Also, Paige already has a charge, so that also means it's not S5 since Sam was her only one in that one. It's definitely an alternate-universe one and at this point nothing in it has caught my attention. They try to make it be about the sisters' non-Charmed lives, but most of it is about demons who I don't find interesting.

It should be a good one for me since the only guy around is Leo who's still a whitelighter and there's no kids, but like I said, it's boring and nothing has happened to make me like any of the sisters - they're the ones I don't like: Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper, PhoeMe/Freebie and Ditzy Valley Girl Paige.

The likenesses are the types that drive me nuts where in some panels they look a lot like the actors and others they don't look anything like them. I'd rather it be one or the other. And Phoebe's where I hate her looks the most - pure S4, while Paige has the red in her hair (although not pure red - more red highlights), so she's *not* S4 Paige.

I would've preferred an alternate universe that takes place in an alternate S2 (no Neighbor Dan and Jenny...) where it's Prue, Piper and Phoebe and saving innocents is more important than battling demons - I am *SO* bored with battling demons - and in this issue, the demons are the stars much more than the Charmed Ones. Djall *could* be interesting, but not as interesting as Zankou who I thought he might be in #1, but now obviously isn't. There *are* innocents, but again, just tools for the demons - I couldn't care less about any of them. I want to be interested in the Charmed Ones (like I was in S9), not the demons.

Reading this is reminding me of watching S6-8 for the first (and last) time or reading S10 for the first (and last) time - not particularly interested but will keep buying and keep reading because checking out the newest Charmed episode/issue is what I do in hopes that *maybe* I'll see the Charmed Ones who I love. In S7, that happened a couple times (during 'Show Ghouls' and 'Something Wicca This Way Goes'. In S6, S8 and S10 it never happened. We'll see what happens with these.

Now anyone who loves demon-battles will probably love these first two issues. I don't.

ETA: Having written this, I decided to go ahead and read the rest of the issue. All I can say is *YAWN*

But I've read other reviews where fans totally *love* both issues, so I'm curious to see what others think.

Darn it! The formatting is *still* goofy! Can someone figure out what I was trying to write and fix it? Thanks!

Edited April 15, 2017 by Esmeralda
Formatting was goofy and read the rest of the issue.

Apprentice79 · April 15, 2017

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:57 PM, lostandfound said:

I watch this show every morning on TNT, and it's so addictive that it should come with a warning label :-)

Disorganized, incoherent unpopular opinions:

Maybe it's because I'm the oldest in my family and just plain old, period, but I nearly always understand where Prue is coming from and have found her less judgmental and inflexible than I'd remembered. I always liked her, but now I love her. Her being bossy, stubborn and prideful are flaws that keep her from being a Mary Sue and which make her entertaining to me, and like others have said, she's got so many attributes that I admire.

I'm in the camp who feels Piper didn't change that drastically after Prue' death because she was always tense, sarcastic, easily frustrated and very critical, even in the first season. Occasionally I want to tell her to just buck up and try to go two episodes without complaining about how much she wants a normal life, but I find her a really interesting and deep character, a combination of bitter edges and soft sensitivity that you don't often see on TV.

It made me smile to see that my opinion of Phoebe isn't too unpopular around here: loved her the first two seasons, liked her a little less when Cole came on the scene, and had trouble still retaining any affection for her by the fifth season. By then she seemed like a different person. I like the theory floated about how they gave Paige so many of Phoebe's initial characteristics that they no longer had any clue how to write Phoebe - and the sibling dynamics in general.

I have trouble solidifying my opinion of Paige because I didn't love any aspect of Charmed as much by the time she came on the show, including how they wrote the sisters. I'll echo that Paige was usually likable but inconsistent and that the Halliwells' dynamics worked much better with the original power of three. I felt like I knew them as individuals and as a group so much better during the seasons Prue was there, with a much clearer idea of how each Halliwell would react to certain situations and how they connected, clashed and balanced one another out as a unit.

While rewatching, it surprised me to remember that Paige was on the show for a season longer than Prue was, because those first few seasons made a much greater impression on me and are still what automatically comes to mind when I think of Charmed.

The first season is definitely my favorite. I think I'd rank the seasons S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6, S7, S8. Not a very cretaive ranking :-)

I'm in agreement with the poster who wished that P3 had never come to be, especially not for the entire series. Maybe it's because I'm old, but I didn't like the music or the setting, and I agree that running a nightclub seemed like a very bizarre career choice for Piper, who doesn't like noise, chaos, or that type of social scene. She didn't seem to enjoy the club much more than I did, and it became another item on the long list of things she'd frequently complain about.

The best part of reading this section was seeing that others loved the idea of Piper with Mark Chao from Dead Man Dating! I wish he had been her primary love interest. Nothing against Leo, who was likable if not very interesting, but I didn't think they worked well as a couple.

While rewatching I realized that I don't love any of the romances other than Piper's single episode affair with the naturally charismatic but dead Mark Chao. Prue and Andy had potential, but something prevented me from becoming too attached to them, and not just the fact that I now know he dies at the end of the first season. I don't like Cole even as a human and most of his relationship with Phoebe makes me cringe, but I agree that he was unexpectedly fun to watch as a raving lunatic in Season 5. The sisters' other boyfriends all blur together for me. It's safe to say I think the writers almost always did a significantly better job writing female characters than male characters, even when it comes to female characters who weren't on for longer than an episode or two and male characters who were on quite a bit, like Jason or Paige's Season 6 boyfriend whose name I can't even remember. It's an interesting and in some ways refreshing reversal since many other shows do a better job wriitng for males and reduce the females to being bland significant others.

I wanted to love Chris, but I thought the actor who played him was terrible, there were too many issues with the plot and pace of his storyline, and I didn't see enough of his relationships with any of the sisters, even Piper, for me to feel as invested as I wanted to.

I saved my deepest one for last: I definitely prefer Paige as a brunette and thought she looked gorgeous in the last two seasons. They all looked gorgeous the last two seasons, or maybe I just had more time to focus on shallow things like the Halliwells' appearances since I'd tuned out to most other aspects of the show by then.

I love your post. I also wanted to say that the show should have kept Andy over Leo. I know that the actor that played Andy wanted to leave. Imagine how season 2 and beyond would have been like with Andy participating in the sisters' fights. I feel that Andy tied the sisters to reality. Plus, I hated Leo's input in the sisters lives with their demon fights. I always loved it when the sisters' saved themselves and not relied so heavily on Leo. This brings me to my unpopular opinion, I loved All hell breaks loose, but, upon re-watching it multiple times over the years. It is filled with weaknesses that highlighted the sisters overdependence on Leo. I always felt that Phoebe should have developed the power to heal via her empathy. She should have been able to heal herself and her sisters. Not to mention, that Prue and Piper should have been able to fight off Shax with their powers. Piper could have frozen him or explode him, when he came barreling through the door. The sisters in the first two seasons were really good at using their powers expertly to fight.

After Prue died, Piper rarely froze and Phoebe stopped trying to use her premonitions. She was so good with it in the first two seasons. There were times when she was able to get a premonition on command. Phoebe was the first one to embrace her powers with joy and actively tried to test the limits of her powers. It is why she was the best spell caster in the power of 3. She learned how to fight in order to offset not having an active power. She had so much potential and the show chose not to do anything with that. I would have loved to have seen Phoebe use her advanced premonitions in tandem with her other two powers that Connie Burge wanted to give her. She would have been a badass witch, almost unstoppable. It was really sad when the Source told her that her powers were never worthy to take. He was right, all that Phoebe could do to him was levitate and kick him. How lame!

Edited April 15, 2017 by Apprentice79
Made a typo with Andy and Leo

GaT · April 15, 2017

On 4/13/2017 at 4:57 PM, lostandfound said:

I'm in agreement with the poster who wished that P3 had never come to be, especially not for the entire series. Maybe it's because I'm old, but I didn't like the music or the setting, and I agree that running a nightclub seemed like a very bizarre career choice for Piper, who doesn't like noise, chaos, or that type of social scene.

What really drove me crazy about P3 was the stupid way they tried to make it sound like people were partying in the club, especially when there was a band playing. Whatever recording they used was just ridiculous & completely unrealistic & always took me out of the scene.

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I wanted to love Chris, but I thought the actor who played him was terrible, there were too many issues with the plot and pace of his storyline, and I didn't see enough of his relationships with any of the sisters, even Piper, for me to feel as invested as I wanted to.

Don't even get me started on the whole Chris storyline. It was so obvious that they were going in one direction originally, then Holly got pregnant, & voilà! Chris is now Holly's son. It sucked.

4 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I also wanted to say that the show should have kept Andy over Leo.

I have never understood the Leo love. Brian Krause is an OK looking guy, but pretty average IMO & not sexy at all, & the whole whitelighter thing where they can tell the witches what to do or take away their powers was total crap.

Edited April 15, 2017 by GaT

Apprentice79 · April 15, 2017

47 minutes ago, GaT said:

I have never understood the Leo love. Brian Krause is an OK looking guy, but pretty average IMO & not sexy at all, & the whole whitelighter thing where they can tell the witches what to do or take away their powers was total crap.

Exactly! I think Leo's story was done at the end of season 1. I never thought that he and Piper were a great couple. I feel that the actor that played the ghost Mark had more palpable chemistry with Holly. I feel that Leo and his travails in the later seasons dominated the show too much for my liking. In hindsight, Connie Burge was right in not wanting the sisters' love life to overshadow the sisters bond and their journey as the charmed ones. Andy fit in more with the sisters' due to him growing up with them as kids. He was not just Prue's ex, he had a bond with Piper and Phoebe as well. He should have been the one to experience their lives as Witches. Not to mention, the potential angst that would exist between Prue and Andy as the sisters' became more powerful, facing more dangerous enemies and their eventual showdown with the source, as Connie wanted to transpire.

MudPrincess · April 22, 2017

I can see how Phoebe was selfish when it came to Cole. All the sisters tried to support her relationship with a demon, who was very dangerous to them, eventually. She just expected everyone to have the same trust that she had. Her selfishness cost the sisters problems constantly. That is the only time I found her selfish time Oauge was the selfish sister

Piper hands down was my favorite. Her sarcasm, wit, and sass were all loved by me. I did get frustrated that her and Leo's relationship was left alone to be a constant. Instead stupid things always came up.

I hated I mean HATED Paige. Although I love Rise McGowan I really could not stand how the writers made her character. Someone else I. The comments nailed it best by saying her character was always all over the place. Insecure one minute and independent the next. Even when it came to her choices she was all over the place. First her career is most important , then only being a witch mattered, then only being a white lighter mattered. She would do things that out all the girls in jeopardy constantly because of her attitude. I mean seriously she always had to be rescued whenever she decided she was going to do it her way and alone. In season five Nymphs Wanna Have fun she drove me insane. Rearranging the house without even discussing it with the others who lived there. When asked about it her response was it didn't work for ME. Always be me me! No consideration for anyone else.

Apprentice79 · April 24, 2017

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 1:24 PM, MudPrincess said:

I can see how Phoebe was selfish when it came to Cole. All the sisters tried to support her relationship with a demon, who was very dangerous to them, eventually. She just expected everyone to have the same trust that she had. Her selfishness cost the sisters problems constantly. That is the only time I found her selfish time Oauge was the selfish sister

Ultimately, it was what caused Prue's death. She should have remained with her sisters to make sure that Shax was dead. She was obsessed with rescuing Cole from himself. I really hated the Cole/Phoebe relationship. It was truly the end of lovable Phoebe. I can't see season 1 Phoebe neglecting her duties as a charmed one to chase after a demon. I wish that we had seen Connie's version of season 3, instead of the one that we got. Connie balanced Brad Kern. I did like season 3, but, it was filled with a lot of plot holes. I hated that Brad Kern had the elders be the one to give the sisters their powers. Connie established that their powers would grow according to the sisters' needs.

Prue developed her second power because she was torn between her duties as charmed one and her career at Buckland's. I am still bitter that Phoebe and Piper's second powers were a mess and did not fit their needs at the time. Phoebe needed an offensive power, that power she had in the future to kill Cal Greene should have been the power that she got in the season 3 opener. While Piper needed a passive power that would work wonderfully with her power to freeze. Piper should also have gotten her second power before Phoebe. She should have gotten it, towards the end of season 2. She was more powerful than Phoebe and that needed to be shown.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Apprentice79

openwindow · April 27, 2017

Aw, I love that so many Gilmore Girls fans have made our way over here - there really is a fandom overlap!

I share a few unpopular opinions with others here, so it's nice to know they're not all as unpopular as previously assumed :)

I love this show much more than Buffy and Angel. Critics and most other TV lovers would be horrified by that. Like someone else said, I just connect with these characters and their stories so much more, and it's more enjoyable for me to rewatch.
I love Piper so much. Like someone else said, she's not just my favorite sister but one of my favorite fictional characters. I even love how high-strung and irritable she can be, and while I definitely understand why that would annoy people and get them down, those flaws are part of why I relate to her so well and, to me, a sign of how deeply she cares.
Piper and Leo are one of my favorite TV couples! In fact, aside from Gilmore Girls' Luke and Lorelai, I can't think of a couple I love more. I can expand on this somewhere else if anyone is curious. And like LL, Piper and Leo were given too many exhausting obstacles by restless writers as the series wore on, but they couldn't kill my love for Piper and Leo or make me believe that they ever stopped loving each other. To me they have one of the deepest, most beautiful connections I've seen between a TV couple.
I love Phoebe - even after Cole comes on the scene. It's not until somewhere near the end of the fourth or fifth season that I start to get why she's the most disliked sister among fans, but even then I never hate her, maybe because I still insist on seeing the Phoebe I loved so much at the beginning.
My favorite sister relationship is the one between Piper and Phoebe. I don't think I've seen anyone else here who feels that way? I just feel like they have the strongest bond and a lot of interesting differences that mesh and balance each other rather than clashing.
I'm among those who likes Paige because I've decided who I think she should be, not because I think the writers had a clear and consistent idea of who she was.
I love what Prue adds to the sibling dynamic and agree with those who admire a lot about her, but she's probably the hardest sister for me to personally connect to.
The third season is my very favorite, above even 1 and 2. That seems unpopular here, but I do love 1 and 2 - and most of 4 and 5 - too! I also think there was a lot of focus on romance even before Cole arrived in S3, and don't even let me go on about the dreadful love triangle that dominated S2. So while I'm not a huge fan of Cole, S3 didn't feel as significant a change for me as it did for others.
I liked Patty more than the very popular Grams :)

I don't think anyone I know watches this show, and even if they do they probably don't love it nearly as much as I do, so it's such a treat to find you all!

theotherhalliwell · April 30, 2017

I'm an old Charmed fan, old in terms of both how long I've loved the show and my actual age, but it's only recently that I started searching for like-minded fans online and am so glad that I found this site! This is still my favorite show even though I know it targeted a younger demographic. I don't want to know that says about my level of taste and maturity.

It's hard for me to assess which opinions are unpopular, but based on what I've read here and elsewhere:

I love all the sisters, but Prue is my favorite. I'm not sure I've ever found anyone else who feels that way! I love characters who are so strong and brave yet closed off and in denial when it comes to messy and more vulnerable emotions. I saw more goodness and humor from her than I think most people did. I agree that she was probably the least warm and accessible sister, but that's part of why I'm so interested in her. I appreciated her even more once I saw how her absence altered the Halliwells' dynamic and the general show. I would also say that she was the most selfless, which is something I really admire.

Andy/Prue was my favorite romance. I love that they had a history and felt that connection came through in their scenes. I know we didn't get to know Andy on a very deep level, but there was something about him that I just loved. I don't read the comics, so to me Andy and Prue are happily battling evil together across various supernatural realms, leading (after)lives full of love and adventure :)

I should love Piper so much more than I do. When I reflect on who she was and read the analysis here and on other sites, I definitely see why she's a fan favorite and start to suspect that I'm insane for feeling Piper is my least favorite character. Unfortunately, when I actually watch I find myself siding with those who find her a self-pitying, resentful Eeyore who I just wish would stop complaining and suck it up. Someone put it perfectly when they said that the other three sisters, whether you liked them or not, had a certain amount of positive energy and spirit: Prue was determined, proactive and brave. Phoebe was optimistic and enthusiastic. Paige was driven to help and find creative solutions to the problems they faced. Piper did everythig with reluctance and never let anyone forget how much she hated having to be a witch. She always seemed so miserable and intent on letting everyone know it. And the comments helped me realize that maybe HMC is part of the issue, because as solid an actress as I think she is, she has a snappish, biting air to her and an unhappy 'at rest' expression that made Piper less sympathetic to me.

I agree that Leo doesn't have much personality and is too often just there. It feels like the writers had no idea what to do with him other than rattle off information that the sisters could have found on their own and then disappear periodically so that they had an excuse to make Piper even more joyless. I wish he had left the show after S1 or S2.

I know I complained a bit in this post, but please know that I LOVE this show! I can watch it over and over and still derive so much joy from it. It makes me so happy that other people out there still love it too!

forever · May 5, 2017

Such an awesome diversity of opinions here! I definitely have enough unpopular opinions to bring to this party :)

I still love Phoebe, even in middle and late seasons. Paige and Phoebe are my two favorite sisters, which seems quite unpopular. I'm the oldest child like Prue and am introverted and a bit of a neurotic like Piper, but for some reason it's always been Paige and Phoebe who really grab me.

I really love Phoebe/Coop! I took a feeble stab at explaining why in the Surveys thread, but since these things often come down to "I don't now, it defies explanation, I just love them and could see why they love each other," I did a lousy job :)

I don't hate S8 (though like almost everyone else, I do hate Christy and Billie!) Most of S1 feels really clunky to me. I love S6 even though I can understand why a lot of fans don't.

I've always been indifferent to Piper/Leo, even before the writers cranked up the angst and contrived separations. I think I agree with the person who said that it might have been nice to see Piper with someone more lively. I'm generally indifferent to Andy/Prue and Phoebe/Cole too.

I honestly had no idea before coming here that others also disliked Piper running a nightclub. Like some of you noted, it felt out of character for her. And, selfishly speaking, I didn't really enjoy having to see that club and listen to the music they played there for seven seasons :) Now you whippersnappers need to get off my lawn. (Yes, I'm old, but I'm one of those people who disliked nightclubs even when I was young!) Since--unlike her sisters--Piper always hated every aspect of having to be a witch, it would have been nice to see her derive some real pleasure from her job outside of being a Charmed One. Her complaining and general discontent did become montonous at times, so it would have been great to contrast that with a setting where she consistently thrived and we as the audience could see the happier sides of her character more often. (Not that anyone is always happy at work!)

I don't know why I didn't warm up as much to Prue. Maybe it's because I saw the middle seasons first, so by the time I circled back around to S1, I knew Prue was going to die and might not have wanted to get too attached. I think it might also be that Shannen D. is an actress I see as a great fit for Mean Girl types. It's just something about her delivery and the way she carries herself. I like her acting overall but her characters just don't elicit much affection from me for some reason. I recall feeling the same way about 90210's Brends Walsh :) Prue was not written to be a warm and fuzzy type anyway, so I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming Shannen's acting skills for why I didn't love Prue, but the character just didn't quite click with me even though she's the sort of strong, empowered woman I usually want to see more of.

One more: I belong to the shameful society of Charmed fans who also really enjoy The Power of Three Blondes. I think there are now at least two or three of us!

Edited May 5, 2017 by forever

Esmeralda · May 5, 2017

Yes, I've noticed over the years that usually whenever each fan started watching the show, that's when they loved it the most - ones who met Paige before Prue usually like Paige more than Prue and vice versa.

There's a similar thread going at another site and I had to bring a few over. Now remember, there's *aren't* mine - just curious to see what you think.

From one member:

1. Piper and Leo were fun in the beginning, but needed to end sooner, and never liked them the longer we got to see them. Paige and Henry were my favorite overall couple, that we actually saw. Since half the ones I like didn't happen.

2. Don't like All Hell Breaks Loose, has too many problems with the script.

3. The series was better off never introducing The Source, and actually wouldn't have minded if he always stayed unseen.

4. Some fans loathe Billie, but I didn't hate her so much in season 8. Especially when the sisters were unlikable.

5. I like episode The Wedding From Hell. It might be corny, but it is much better than a majority of episodes from the later seasons. I do have to laugh at some of the bad acting from the guest cast.

6. Hated Sleuthing With the Enemy's episode ending in regards to Phoebe. Though I don't think this is so unpopular.

7. Elders just should of not been seen. So only mentioned.

From another member:

I enjoy watching The Wedding From Hell and She's a Man, Baby, a Man! Both episodes are extremely cringeworthy but have a lot of funny dialogue. And they both look so outdated that there's something comforting about them.

From another member:

-I think Billie was mostly alright, especially as she shed her silly demonfighter persona and saw how serious things could get. I dont know, maybe it was just contrasted with the sisters that season but I liked her enthusiasm for trying to do the right thing. Even if it did lead her to trouble.

-I disliked Piper/Leo in the later seasons. Part of this is tied to Wyatt; I hate babies in shows because I know ruination is coming and sure enough... I would have been ok with the kid if he had been a fairly normal witch child, but nope, every power ever. But I like the Chris scenario (and the consequences of Piper's permissive parenting) so I can't even be as mad at it as I want to be.

From another member:

Christy deserved to die - she was manipulated beyond reason and couldn't see sense despite actually having lived with the Charmed ones. I also don't believe Christy really believed what she tried to manipulate Billie into thinking - that the Charmed ones were selfish - I don't believe she'd even have much of a reason to care to the point she'd try to kill them. Also the sister's defence for going after Billie and Christy was PURELY self-defence and it clearly couldn't be called murder - even when Christy was outnumbered in the end - it was BILLIE who killed her, so the charmed ones shouldn't be held accountable for her fate in my eyes.

I like Piper's evolution, I appreciate all facets of her character throughout the series run. I like that she was shy and timid and anxious in the earlier seasons and sarcastic and bitchy and a little mean later on - she seemed like the most relatable.

Phoebe looked better blonde.

In spite of all its plot holes, I think AHBL is my favorite episode for the acting and the dire situations alone, even though I understand the criticisms.

Leo was actually awful - it seemed clear that the only sister he actually cared about was the one he was married to - when Piper was revealed to have been killed, like the Source said in AHBL - Phoebe knew because Leo came back crying - as if he wouldn't if Prue was the one whose corpse was on the hospital bed (for whom I'd believe he'd just orb down looking a little sullen) - and on top of that Phoebe had to hug and comfort HIM.

I don't know if this is unpopular, but Paige and Phoebe died too many times together and in episodes like Sword and the City and I Dream of Phoebe, it'd just been established as a running gag.

Prue was a hypocrite. As much as I loved her, her attitude towards Phoebe wanting to expose magic to put a killer behind bars (correctly thinking that the cost would mean they couldn't get to save countless future innocents) in The Honeymoon's Over, compared to AHBL when she snaps at Piper for saying they shouldn't have chased Shax into the street, with the justification that they would've otherwise would've lost Griffiths was totally contradictory.

The premise of the secrecy of magic is weak. Good witches and beings would want to avoid exposure, as to blend in and live as part of society so would keep magic a secret. Evil beings have no reason to fear exposure, as a lot of them would enjoy the havoc wreaked on humanity, compared to living miserably in the shadows of the underworld, being a little more lowkey about spreading evil above the surface. Also, the lack of conscience means that they would be able to kill any mortal law enforcement who'd try and imprison and dissect them.

Payback's A Witch isn't that great an episode to me - yeah I liked Paige saving Henry and Phoebe with Wyatt, but I don't see why so many people love it or how Billie was somehow able to make a potion out of crap in a purse.

Season 8's closing arc (8x15-8x21) was actually great - S8 contained a lot of filler but the last few episodes (except the very last) were really strong as it put the sisters in very complicated positions and there was a lot of betrayal despair that came into play.

Something Wicca This Way Goes is great - only it makes no sense. The sisters had no reason to think that banishing the Hollow while inside Zankou would result in a huge explosion that would kill them - that assumption (even though it turned out to be correct) forced them to fear for their lives to the point they had everything prepared.

Phoebe just became ridiculous in season 5, I get that a lot of people didn't like her for hating Cole too fast with no warning - but the second half after Cole was still pretty bad. She became ridiculously animated and hyper - like how she was in Sense and Sensibility - when she hugged Paige and said "oh, honey!!" and yelled out "this is all part of a MASSIVE evil plan!!" - she seemed like a 5 year old or a drunk or both in that episode and she was out of character like that until season 7.

Prue didn't look as good in S1 or 2 as she did in S3 when she had brown hair and bangs.

I don't see someone as altruistic as Andy lasting longer than he did in lives as dangerous as the Charmed ones'.

Another member:

I didn't like Darryl, in fact by about season 5 he'd become completely redundant. Fair enough the first few seaons they needed a police contact because back then they actually helped people. But once the show became more about magic and fairytales they just didn't need him.

I also never cared for Leo and think he shouldn't have appeared after "Wicca Envy".

e was a whitelighter for like 60 years but had to "check" with the elders for 9 out of 10 times when asked a question.

On a more serious note: The more he stayed, the less I liked him. "Love Hurts", eventhough likely written as his final episode pretty much set up the Leo & Piper belong together. Then in season 2, when Piper was trying to move on he kept popping up unwillig to let go (that's why I really don't have any sympathy for him when he became her doormat after they became a couple again). "Blinded By the Whitelighter" was also a great example of him not doing his job right.

So?? What do you guys think of all of those? I'll hold off my own responses til I see what you think.

stillsearching74 · May 7, 2017

I wasted the entire morning catching up on this thread, but it was a more fun and interesting read than nearly anything currently on my Kindle, so I regret nothing!

I'm not sure which of these are that unpopular since there's such a wide variety of opinions expressed here - all of which were treated with respect, which makes this my new favorite site even though I just signed up this morning :)

Not to be too kumbaya, but my biggest unpopular opinion is probably that I love all four sisters equally. Prue, Piper, Phoebe and Paige are all some of my favorite TV characters, and I couldn't even begin to pick a favorite or least favorite. I'm also way too emotionally invested in the sisters and this show, in case you haven't already ascertained that! Charmed is very far from perfect and not the type of show that's generally deemed high quality, but it also grabbed me like no other show I've ever watched and still hasn't relinquished its hold on me. And like a few other folks here, I have watched a whole lot of TV :)

I'll be the second or third person to come out as a Phoebe/Coop fan. I'm one of the only people who preferred them over Phoebe/Cole. I like the juxtaposition of Coop having devoted his life to helping others discover love while never really experiencing it himself, and I agree he's got that passion, intensity and confidence that Phoebe is drawn towards in most of her men. Phoebe/Coop and Paige/Henry are the show's best and most interesting ships to me. Like someone else theorized, it's probably because we saw just enough of them to draw me in and intrigue me with their potential but not too much of the usual contrived TV obstacles to leave me bored, annoyed and disenchanted like I sometimes was with Piper/Leo.

I love the third and fourth seasons of the show, but it's more despite the Phoebe/Cole romance than because of it. I'm with Prue on never trusting him, and not just when he was demonic. I'm also with the folks who think he's a lot more fun and entertaining when he's evil or insane.

I can snark on this show along with the best of them, but I still love every season. Not every episode - not even I am that devoted a Charmed fan - but every season has more than enough to keep me re-watching it. Even S7 and S8 :)

I like the magic school, generic and copycat a plot device as it was, and I love the idea of Leo teaching there. I wish he had had that role through most of the series, since Leo as just a messenger, exposition-spouting mansplainer, pawn of the elders and love interest who Piper is too often annoyed with is an aspect of the show that they really could have improved on. Establishing his own identity at the school and interacting with the students and magical beings he encountered there would have given Leo more story and development apart from Piper and left the sisters to figure more out on their own rather than Leo as a constant and too convenient go between. As with many of you, I'm not sold on the concepts of whitelighters or elders and would have liked to see how the series would have played out without them.

I'll probaby mostly lurk because I'm self-conscious about my writing and also because I love this show so much that I don't have as much to complain about, but I'll be here reading and enjoying your opinions and analysis!

Edited May 7, 2017 by stillsearching74

slf · May 11, 2017

In the end I wasn't a big fan of any of the romances, honestly. This was in part because I didn't like the actors, didn't think they were cute, there wasn't much if any chemistry, etc., but first and foremost it was because I felt like the sisters' dynamic was often sacrificed or pushed aside for the sake of romance. There's a lot they could have done with the sisters and we really didn't get to see any of it. They spent basically the last four seasons of the show blowing up baddies and pursuing boyfriends. It didn't feel like a show about sisters.

I agree with everyone who says having the sisters end up with three kids a piece was idiotic. Phoebe never struck me as someone who would do well as a parent. Had Prue lived I don't think she would have had any at all.

I have to say (and forgive me if I'm repeating myself) that I hate the idea of Magic School but not nearly as much as I hate that it was called Magic School. "Magic School"? Did they let a child name it?

Lady Calypso · May 11, 2017

6 hours ago, slf said:

I agree with everyone who says having the sisters end up with three kids a piece was idiotic. Phoebe never struck me as someone who would do well as a parent. Had Prue lived I don't think she would have had any at all.

Very true. The only one suited for three kid was Piper. Paige would have done well with just one, Phoebe might have been fine with two, and if Prue was alive, I think she'd opt to have no kids but also maybe just one if she did choose to have a child.

6 hours ago, slf said:

I have to say (and forgive me if I'm repeating myself) that I hate the idea of Magic School but not nearly as much as I hate that it was called Magic School. "Magic School"? Did they let a child name it?

I liked the idea of Magic School but, like all other plots on this show, the execution was pretty horrible.

Honestly, I know this show has many flaws and it's not great, but I still consider it one of my favourites.

stillsearching74 · May 11, 2017

Paige is the one I could see very content without having children, especially as that would leave her more free to travel, pursue a bunch of unconventional paths, and spend time with charges all over the world. I understand why people see Phoebe as she was originally written as not being maternal, but even in S2's Reckless Abandon we see that Phoebe has a ton of love for and natural ability with babies. Interestingly, Piper is the one who had the toughest time with the baby.

I think in my ideal Charmed universe, Piper would be with Mark in a happy relationship relatively devoid of angst and with a couple of kids who were potentially magical, potentially human. P3 wouldn't have been a thing, and she'd always have continued cooking, catering etc. in various capacities. She'd also have learned much earlier in the series that no one has a truly "normal" life and that normalcy is overrated anyway, therefore accepting their destiny as witches more and complaining about it less. Leo would have disappeared after S1. It's nothing against Leo, who's fine if kind of dull, but the Leo/Piper relationship ultimately didn't leave either character as lovable or interesting as I think they might otherwise have been. (Note: I LOVE Piper, but I'm just speculating on how I might have loved her arc even more!)

In my same ideal Charmed universe, Phoebe would have ended up happily single, and with a bunch of different, fulfilling but unconventional jobs that bridged the supernatural and mortal worlds rather than becoming a more typical driven career woman at the newspaper and local celebrity for over half the show. I really loved Phoebe's initial eagerness to help innocents, her restless spirit and her love of witchcraft and all its possibilities, and in my Charmed world she'd have held on to that and found roles that allowed her to work with both the magical and mortal worlds and offered excitement, adventure, variety etc. I could see her eventually having or adopting kids and becoming a very happy fulfilled mom whose happiness was never contingent on romantic love after all.

I love that Paige embraced her Whitelighter side and would have had her do it sooner! I can also see her and Henry as a crime solving duo, with him handling humans and her using that same combination of justice and mercy in the supernatural realm. As I said above, I can see her and Henry very happy as an involved aunt and uncle rather than parents - maybe with a few exotic pets :)

For some reason I have trouble sorting out what I'd ideally have wanted for Prue, though certainly remaining alive would have been a good start!

Quote

"Magic School"? Did they let a child name it?

LOL! Not exactly the most dazzlingly clever thing the writers came up with during the series' run ;)

Quote

Honestly, I know this show has many flaws and it's not great, but I still consider it one of my favourites.

Me too! I'm just deeply invested in it and attached to it regardless of its flaws. Some of those flaws might even make it more endearing to me, or at least spark some fun speculation about what could have been.

Edited May 11, 2017 by stillsearching74

Kohola3 · May 11, 2017

Since TNT is circling back to the beginning and showing reruns for the eleventy-seventh time (and I have it on as background noise) I am increasingly bothered by the really cheesy special effects and demon lairs. I always wondered about how they managed the freezing stuff (which I like) but geez, the dark caves and fires burning in the underworld. Demons must hate creature comforts.

helenamonster · May 11, 2017

I definitely agree that even though this show could annoy the crap out of me at its worst and would never in a million years be considered peak television, I will always love and enjoy it and it will always be one of my favorites. I think it's because that, for the most part, this show never tried to be anything it wasn't. It was cheesy, silly, fantastic fun. Every once in a while they'd get super dramatic and it would work (the Queen of the Underworld arc in particular being a real standout), but at the end of the day it was just about ladies kicking ass and being magical. I was a kid during its original run and I think watching four very powerful women every week (and every day after school thanks to reruns lol) had a huge impact on the kind of woman I became. Although I would absolutely never admit that outside of this forum.

Kohola3 · May 11, 2017

Hey, anything that makes women strong, powerful, and able to function without the strong guiding hand of a man!

Apprentice79 · May 11, 2017

14 hours ago, slf said:

In the end I wasn't a big fan of any of the romances, honestly. This was in part because I didn't like the actors, didn't think they were cute, there wasn't much if any chemistry, etc., but first and foremost it was because I felt like the sisters' dynamic was often sacrificed or pushed aside for the sake of romance. There's a lot they could have done with the sisters and we really didn't get to see any of it. They spent basically the last four seasons of the show blowing up baddies and pursuing boyfriends. It didn't feel like a show about sisters.

Constance Burge was right to only want Andy and Prue as the It couple that would ground the sisters to reality. In hindsight, Leo should have remained a season 1 character. The sisters defeated Tempus on their own without input from the useless elders or Leo. Phoebe was the MVP of that episode, her premonitions saved the day by alerting her that they were in a time loop. If I was writing the show, Andy would have survived. Instead of the horrible Dan/Piper/leo triangle of season2. We would have seen how the charmed ones' duties affect the Prue/Andy relationship. Prue would be hesitant about pursuing a relationship, remembering the fallout from the truth spell in season 1, while Andy would be all for it. Piper would open a restaurant and casually dating. Piper would get her second power like Prue. Phoebe would be using her Premonitions to help Andy with solving crimes creating problems for Andy at work. Phoebe would go back to school.

Cole should have been the season 3 big bad culminating in his vanquish in the season finale with Phoebe using her premonitions that are growing exponentially, to orchestrate his defeat. Cole should have been a full demon like Connie wanted whose goal was to defeat the charmed ones. Piper and Phoebe should have been more woke in pushing the limits of their original powers while trying to master their second powers. Instead of Prue being superwitch in season 3, as we saw on the show. It should have been Piper and Phoebe. Phoebe would also being create all types of spells to help the sisters in battle. While Piper would do that with her potions. Prue would get her third power.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Apprentice79

Esmeralda · May 12, 2017

On 5/11/2017 at 6:14 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Very true. The only one suited for three kid was Piper. Paige would have done well with just one, Phoebe might have been fine with two, and if Prue was alive, I think she'd opt to have no kids but also maybe just one if she did choose to have a child.

I liked the idea of Magic School but, like all other plots on this show, the execution was pretty horrible.

Honestly, I know this show has many flaws and it's not great, but I still consider it one of my favourites.

Can't agree that Piper was suited for raising three kids. Three non-magical ones, maybe, but seeing how Wyatt turned out in Chris' original future we know how crappy her permissive parenting of a magical child was. I still think she was the "demon" who turned Wyatt, not Gideon. And the reason Wyatt is good in the flash-forward (if you believe that's real, which I don't...) is the same reason Wyatt didn't turn evil in 'Imaginary Fiends' - Leo.

I think of all of the sisters, Piper would've been the happiest alone with no husband and no kids - just a boyfriend to boss around and turn into her own little errand boy - she wasn't happy with Leo until he turned into that. Not a good example for her sons. I can't see a man from the 30's/40's being happy with that unless he was masochistic, and I don't think Leo was.

Phoebe would've been happiest without any child, just a regular handyman who could spoil her rotten.

If Prue mothered her kids the way she mothered Piper and Phoebe, then like Piper and Phoebe, they'd never grow up but be totally dependent on her, and end up being horrible parents themselves.

Paige was lucky to not be raised by Grams - she probably would've made the best mother of the bunch, but I don't think she'd have any of her own - I think since both she and Henry were adopted, they'd adopt or even foster kids instead, so they wouldn't have to worry about the magical part of it.

Had Leo been smart, he would've had Piper bind their sons' powers, and then take them and walk out on his shrew of a wife, and all four of them would've been much happier with no fears of Wyatt turning evil or Chris having to go time-travelling.

Had all of this happened then indeed Melinda Warren would've been right - the growth of magic in the Warren line would've culminated (ended) with the Charmed Ones.

It's what I like to believe is what truly happened, not what Piper saw in her delusion after she was knocked unconscious during 'Kill Billie Vol 2', my own explanation for 'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper", I mean "Forever Charmed'.

stillsearching74 · May 12, 2017

Quote

'Forever Crap', I mean 'Forever Piper", I mean "Forever Charmed'.

I keep seeing you refer to the finale that way, so I guess my UO is that I loved Forever Charmed! It wasn't technically perfect, but it hit all the right emotional notes for me.

I love these characters despite their flaws---if I didn't, I never could have hung in there with the show, because the plots themselves are not exactly ingenious, especially past S4-S5 :)

Kohola3 · May 13, 2017

1 hour ago, stillsearching74 said:

I keep seeing you refer to the finale that way, so I guess my UO is that I loved Forever Charmed!

As did I but I am a sucker for happy endings. I thought it was great. And it took a lot to plow through the truly horrible last season so Forever Charmed was like a gift to me for staying loyal through that horrendous Billie/Christy drivel.

Esmeralda · May 13, 2017

16 hours ago, stillsearching74 said:

I keep seeing you refer to the finale that way, so I guess my UO is that I loved Forever Charmed! It wasn't technically perfect, but it hit all the right emotional notes for me.

I love these characters despite their flaws---if I didn't, I never could have hung in there with the show, because the plots themselves are not exactly ingenious, especially past S4-S5 :)

Yeah, I know my way of looking at it is probably an Unpopular Opinion, but it had more plotholes in it than "All Hell Breaks Loose" and was the best finale for "The Perils of Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper" (aka S4-8), but not "Charmed". I wanted it to be about all three (preferably four) sisters, not just one.

I hung onto them, even though I hated all three sisters in S6 (the reason it's my least-favorite season) and only liked Paige in S7 & S8 (and, for that matter, only liked her in S4 and only liked Piper in S5 - not counting 'Oh, My Goddess!' which I count as part of S6) because that's what I did. I started watching it when it first came on and kept hoping I'd get to see the Charmed Ones I loved so much in S1-2 (didn't like Phoebe or Prue in the last half of S3) and kept hoping I'd catch glimpses of them - and I did! I saw my Phoebs, my favorite Charmed character, in Show Ghouls (first time Phoebs had been around since she lied to her sisters in 'Sleuthing with the Enemy) and 'Something Wicca This Way Goes..." oh, if only that had been the finale! I still cry each time I watch that - 'Forever Crap', I've only watched once - the first time it aired - and all I did during that one was roll my eyes and yawn.

In case you've lost track (hehehehe), here's my listing of the sisters (also probably unpopular, but me):

S1: Phoebs>Piper>>>Prue

S2: Phoebs>Prue>>>>Piper

FH S3: Phoebs>Prue=Piper

LHS S3: Piper>Prue>>>>>>>>>>>PhoeME

S4: Paige>>>>>Poor, Poor Pitiful Piper>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PhoeME

S5 (not counting 'Oh, My Goddess!'): Piper>>>>>Ditzy Valley Girl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PhoeMe

S6 (counting 'Oh, My Goddess!' ) Didn't like any of them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Poor Poor, Pitiful Piper=Ditzy Valley Girl=PhoeMe

S7 'Show Ghouls' Phoebs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paige=Piper>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PhoeMe

S8: Paige>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PhoeME>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Poor, Poor, Pitiful Piper

Edited May 13, 2017 by Esmeralda

Esmeralda · May 13, 2017

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

As did I but I am a sucker for happy endings. I thought it was great. And it took a lot to plow through the truly horrible last season so Forever Charmed was like a gift to me for staying loyal through that horrendous Billie/Christy drivel.

I *so* wish I could feel that way...but I simply couldn't.

stillsearching74 · May 13, 2017

@Esmeralda, I definitely agree that Piper was really likable in S5, probably more so for me than any season other than the first. I wonder why that is? She was more of the more emotional, sweetly soft Piper I love but also tough and protective. She was a little further past her grieving by then, so she wasn't as bitter and angry as she was during a lot of S4, but she was also more focused on important issues - getting rid of the then dark and insane Cole and helping Phoebe get past it, her pregnancy and protecting her magical infant - than the comparatively petty stuff they had her fretting about in S2 and S3 like which guy she should finally choose, why her wedding can't be more perfect, and how she and Leo can't honeymoon like "normal" couples. As others have noted, Piper is actually a very deep, complex character, an unusual mixture of extreme sensitivity and traditionally "feminine" interests and traits balanced by a protective, jaded cynicism and action-oriented, take -no -prisoners toughness. S5 allowed us to see all those facets of her character.

I didn't really enjoy the last five or six episodes of S5, but before that there's a lot I love about it - even though this is when Phoebe starts to feel unrecognizable to me, an entirely different character who I don't especially connect with or even like.

Our lists have some other similarities, @Esmeralda, including that Paige never earned the dubious distinction of being our least favorite in any season and that we, along with a lot of the fanbase, loved Phoebe far more during the first two seasons than at any time afterwards!

I wonder why it feels more natural and instinctive for me to write from the perspective of either Piper or Phoebe than Paige. At their worst, Piper and Phoebe both bother me far more than Paige did, but in my deliberately deluded mind, Piper and Phoebe are still the characters I initially loved, and those characters are clearer and more distinct in my mind than Paige ever was. As much as I like and often love Paige, she didn't capture my heart or my interest quite as much as Piper and Phobe at their peak---or at least Piper and Phoebe as I inisist on seeing them. :) Like others observed, I think some of it has to do with how much more clearly and deeply defined the sisters' roles and dynamics were during the Prue years than when Paige came on the scene. My interest was piqued not just by them individually but how they all functioned as a unit, bringing out each sister's very different skills and strengths and better balancing out one another's flaws.

Esmeralda · May 13, 2017

Funny, I find that when I write from the viewpoint of one of the sisters, it's almost-always Phoebs, but Phoebs, not PhoeME. I've actually heard her voice (and not Alyssa Milano's or PhoeME's, bu PHOEBS', no matter which season it takes place) in my head telling me stories when I'm out of for a walk and all I have to do is take dictation. I know it's just my imagination, but I call that voice Muse Phoebs anyway...

I think it's easier to write from their point of view because despite how complex Piper ended up being, we mainly think of her as the Middle Sister based on Connie's middle sister, who was forced to try to act like the Oldest Sister but because she was too wrapped up with her own family (Leo, Wyatt and Chris), never succeeded in doing that the way Prue (who was based on Connie's oldest sister, who she obviously idolized, since Prue ended up being the Mary Sue of the first three seasons, the way PhoeME was the last four, with Billie as a co-Mary Sue in the last season) did. In the same way, I love Phoebs who was based on Connie and so obviously the Baby.

Even after Paige joined the scene, PhoeME was never the Middle Child because it was always all about her - typical Baby - which wasn't Paige. Paige wasn't really the Baby, nor was she ever the Only Child she should've been - she never truly had a personality all her own, the way the other three did, since they were actually based on ones who were. I think that's why every fanfic I've read written from Paige's point of view never seems to put Paige's voice into my head, the way a lot of fanfics written from the original three's do.

Does that make sense?

Edited May 13, 2017 by Esmeralda

Apprentice79 · May 13, 2017

1 hour ago, Esmeralda said:

Funny, I find that when I write from the viewpoint of one of the sisters, it's almost-always Phoebs, but Phoebs, not PhoeME. I've actually heard her voice (and not Alyssa Milano's or PhoeME's, bu PHOEBS', no matter which season it takes place) in my head telling me stories when I'm out of for a walk and all I have to do is take dictation. I know it's just my imagination, but I call that voice Muse Phoebs anyway...

I think it's easier to write from their point of view because despite how complex Piper ended up being, we mainly think of her as the Middle Sister based on Connie's middle sister, who was forced to try to act like the Oldest Sister but because she was too wrapped up with her own family (Leo, Wyatt and Chris), never succeeded in doing that the way Prue (who was based on Connie's oldest sister, who she obviously idolized, since Prue ended up being the Mary Sue of the first three seasons, the way PhoeME was the last four, with Billie as a co-Mary Sue in the last season) did. In the same way, I love Phoebs who was based on Connie and so obviously the Baby.

Even after Paige joined the scene, PhoeME was never the Middle Child because it was always all about her - typical Baby - which wasn't Paige. Paige wasn't really the Baby, nor was she ever the Only Child she should've been - she never truly had a personality all her own, the way the other three did, since they were actually based on ones who were. I think that's why every fanfic I've read written from Paige's point of view never seems puts Paige's voice into my head, the way a lot of fanfics written from the original three's do.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense and as a viewer, I feel that we got cheated by not seeing Connie's vision of the original power of 3 get fulfilled.

Esmeralda · May 13, 2017

4 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

It makes perfect sense and as a viewer, I feel that we got cheated by not seeing Connie's vision of the original power of 3 get fulfilled.

AMEN!!!!!!

Lucky Thirteen · June 14, 2017

They should have made Piper's character a bit darker instead of whinier. I really liked her in the episode where she dances on the bar table.

Prue deserved to die. The first 3 seasons were insanely Prue Centric especially in terms of looks. Sorry but SD isn't hot or goodlooking. Also, the fact that she all of a sudden knew how to throw punches was unbelievable. I could believe Phoebe because she actually looked toned but not Prue.

Phoebe shouldn't have had that many love interests. Jason was by far the worst. She became obnoxious with the wanting a child storyline.

Christie shouldn't have died.

Billie should have been recasted, or better.. not exist at all. Kaylee sucks and the billie and christie storyline felt like a deviation from the original charmed.

I LOVE Phoebe.

HMC's voice was cringe when she when she whined.

Piper was a horrible wife. She treated Leo like garbage. He deserved better.

Phoebe should have received better and more active powers instead of weird levitation bullshit.

Prue got waaaay too many great powers.

Paige became dependent and whiny as hell as the series went on. I liked her better as an independent person.

NicoleQueen · June 15, 2017

I loved Christy and wished the show had given her more time than inserting her adult self in the last 8 episodes. I'm also in the minority who liked Billie, and I think that different story pacing and approach to some of her characteristics would have made her more likeable.

whateverhappened · June 15, 2017

Paige is a relatable, likable, layered and underrated character in my unpopular view, and as I'm re-watching I'm finding myself developing the unpopular opinion that season 4 and parts of season 5 are the peak of the show, even more so than the Prue seasons.

And despite its problems, in my opinion this show overall deserves more love!

Apprentice79 · June 15, 2017

22 hours ago, In My Zone said:

Prue deserved to die. The first 3 seasons were insanely Prue Centric especially in terms of looks. Sorry but SD isn't hot or goodlooking. Also, the fact that she all of a sudden knew how to throw punches was unbelievable. I could believe Phoebe because she actually looked toned but not Prue.

As much as I loved Prue. I hated that she became very good at throwing punches. I do agree that it made sense for Phoebe to good at martial arts. I loved the premise that it was her way of contributing to the power of 3, since she had a passive power. A passive power that would have made her a very powerful witch, once she received the defensive and offensive powers that Connie envisioned for her.

whateverhappened · June 15, 2017

I don't really agree with the popular sentiment that Constance's vision of the show was so superior. For one thing, despite all the talk about how Constance didn't want any love interest overpowering the sisterly relationships, S1 and S2 actually have A LOT of pointless romantic melodrama---at least as much as later seasons, in fact. I'm not even sure I'm convinced that the first two seasons delved any more deeply and accurately into witchcraft, but even if they did, that's not what some of us ever loved about the show anyway :) I'm far less interested in the nitty gritty of who developed which powers to what degree and just love Charmed for the fun, engaging, touching, warmhearted and empowering show that it so often is both during AND after Constance's time on the show. Honestly, part of me enjoys the higher energy of the post-Constance seasons and how the show embraced it strengths rather than coming off as self-serious in an awkward, forced sort of way like it sometimes did while Constance was in charge. Just my take on the whole "Constance was perfect and would have made the rest of the show far better" narrative :)

Edited June 15, 2017 by whateverhappened

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