S03.E04: Unbreak-Able

[natyxg]

My understanding is Dylan was raised by Norma, but he was always the outcast and left home young.

 

This. The way I understand the Dylan/Norma dynamic is that she had a hard time having a good relationship with him because he was the product of incestuous rape. So she focused way more on Norman and Dylan always felt like the outcast and that is where his anger came from. I have never doubted that the problem Dylan always had with Norman was that she was his mom and he loved her and desperately wanted her to love him, but he felt unloved by her for no reason, without doing anything to deserve the cold shoulder, which is why he was so angry at her and considered her a bitch.

 

Now, about how Norma left he house. She could have had a boyfriend she was not having sex with until she found out she was pregnant and then did have sex with him to get him to marry her... and then Dylan was supposedly born a couple of months   "prematurely" if you know what I mean.

 

Caleb is at least a few years older than Norma - an age ratio that negated her ever having any level of equality with him. He was her BIG brother and in a position to force her into things.

 

This has always been my impression. The info on the wiki seems wrong, 10 years is too much, but I assumed he was like 16 or something like that when it started. He was her BIG brother, not someone more or less her age, and that affected the power dynamics. He claimed that she was very smart and figured out that it was wrong, as if he hadn't, but he could be a very damaged 16 year old whose maturity level was less than that because the abuse, IDK, but he had the body of a 16 which would have been intimidating for a 13 year old.

[Mabinogia]

Not just the physical intimidation, of Caleb at say 15-16 and Norma at 13-14 but the emotional intimidation. The main part of their story that is the same is that it was them against the world. Imagine if you are 13 and your only ally in the world, your big brother, tells you he wants to have sex with you. Are you going to say no when he is the only person who you think you can turn to? Nope! So, he may never have forced her to have sex with him, but that doesn't mean she felt she had the option of saying no. Theirs is a fascinating but terribly tragic story. Imagine being teenage Norma and suddenly realizing you are being used and betrayed by the only person you thought you could trust? Or young Caleb who suddenly finds out the one person he loves in the world can't stand the sight of him? They are both so very, very broken. The only difference is, Vera does it with so much compassion for her character and sympathy that I buy her heartbreak but whoever it is playing Caleb just comes across as menacing all the time, even when he's supposedly repentant-ish. IDK if that is deliberate. If we are supposed to wonder about the nature of redemption. Is Norma redeemable but Caleb not? If so, why? It's something I think about and find absolutely fascinating because, for me, the answer is that Norma is and Caleb is not based on who they are now, and how they react to things. Norma, who is always on the defense seems like she is trying desperately to hold her life together while Caleb seems to be on the offensive all the time, fighting to take what he wants out of life. I bet that was their dynamic as children, too. Caleb took what he wanted, and Norma was so desperate for affection that she gave him whatever he asked for.

 

I love playing TV shrink. lol

[editorgrrl]

Bates Motel Wiki claims that Caleb is 49 and Norma is 39.

http://batesmotel.wikia.com/wiki/Caleb_Calhoun

http://batesmotel.wikia.com/wiki/Norma_Bates

But I don't really know where they got the info from and places like those aren't always trustworthy. I couldn't find any other info, but if true yikes!

Well, Kenny Johnson is 51 and Vera Farmiga is 41.

Edited April 5, 2015 by editorgrrl

[turbogirlnyc]

Not just the physical intimidation, of Caleb at say 15-16 and Norma at 13-14 but the emotional intimidation. The main part of their story that is the same is that it was them against the world. Imagine if you are 13 and your only ally in the world, your big brother, tells you he wants to have sex with you. Are you going to say no when he is the only person who you think you can turn to? Nope! So, he may never have forced her to have sex with him, but that doesn't mean she felt she had the option of saying no. Theirs is a fascinating but terribly tragic story. Imagine being teenage Norma and suddenly realizing you are being used and betrayed by the only person you thought you could trust? Or young Caleb who suddenly finds out the one person he loves in the world can't stand the sight of him? They are both so very, very broken. The only difference is, Vera does it with so much compassion for her character and sympathy that I buy her heartbreak but whoever it is playing Caleb just comes across as menacing all the time, even when he's supposedly repentant-ish. IDK if that is deliberate. If we are supposed to wonder about the nature of redemption. Is Norma redeemable but Caleb not? If so, why? It's something I think about and find absolutely fascinating because, for me, the answer is that Norma is and Caleb is not based on who they are now, and how they react to things. Norma, who is always on the defense seems like she is trying desperately to hold her life together while Caleb seems to be on the offensive all the time, fighting to take what he wants out of life. I bet that was their dynamic as children, too. Caleb took what he wanted, and Norma was so desperate for affection that she gave him whatever he asked for.

I love playing TV shrink. lol

Great post with several good points!

The way I interpreted it was that Norma found out from someone else that incest was wrong. She then told Caleb it was wrong and they should stop.

Some of my conclusion was in part due to the dialogue but much of it is Norma's raw, guttrral reaction to seeing Caleb. Her response was filled with rage and anguish, if not hate. It had to come from somewhere and my guess is that he forced himself on her.

Why else would he need to apologize to Norma? Norma told Dylan he was something beautiful that came from an ugly, horrible circumstance (paraphrasing).

I can't find sympathy for Caleb because of that. Also, the actor playing Caleb is straight up creepy and looks menacing. He tries to control of Dylan as well. That's his nature.

I do feel bad for Caleb & Norma because of their terrible upbringing. I can comprehend why they turned to eachother for comfort. But at some point Norma told him no, it's wrong. He disregarded her words and wishes because he "couldn't let her go".

Edited April 5, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[Chrissytd]

Emma puling up in her Bug filled with pot plants gave me a laugh.

[IDFfm0870]

Oh boy, what a phantastically twisted episode! So much to digest.

 

Loved to see Dylan connecting with Norma and even with Caleb. In the end, the whole family dynamic is just to sad, beneath all other strong facts or feelings.

I really thought that Caleb was a goner when he fell down.

My heart broke for Dylan in the end, it seems the "real" Norman is in the house finally.

 

The third hooker did not really seem to be afraid that something could happen to her, telling Romero everything she knew. Romero and Norma are gonna get together one of these days.

 

Loved Emma's reaction, you go girl!

 

Did not like Dylan telling his brother than Norma and him were talking about Norman, was that some kind of diffusion? Either way, not like.

 

Bummer that Gunner has become so unimportant. Maybe now that Emma is so angry with Norman, you never know ...

 

Possibly my favorate episode from this season so far. And now I will joyfully watch episode 5 next ;D

[tennisgurl]

Poor Dylan. I really feel awful for him. But he needs to ditch Caleb. ASAP. 

 

Every time I see the title of this episode, I immediately start singing the theme song from Unbreakable Kimmy Schmit.

 

Unbreakable! They're alive damn it! 

[Bec]

Hee! I know! I have that song stuck in my head, too!

[Guest]

-Caleb didn't classify what they "had" as rape. "It wasn't like that." and also "She blames me and I blame myself."

 

I wonder if the reveal is going to be that the rapist was Norma's dad all along, not Caleb, and what Caleb blames himself for is not recognizing it going on and saving her.  Or suspecting it but not having the guts to stand up to the father.  Norma might be so disgusted by the reality she's concocted an alternate version that's slightly less distasteful.  

 

I think the snapshot in the following episode kind of rules out a 10 year age difference.  

[Avaleigh]

I wonder if the reveal is going to be that the rapist was Norma's dad all along, not Caleb, and what Caleb blames himself for is not recognizing it going on and saving her.  Or suspecting it but not having the guts to stand up to the father.  Norma might be so disgusted by the reality she's concocted an alternate version that's slightly less distasteful.  

 

I think the snapshot in the following episode kind of rules out a 10 year age difference.  

I too have wondered if the father is going to figure into this somehow. I keep going back to that story that she was telling a psychiatrist in the first or second season. Anybody know which episode that was. I'd like to watch it again just to see if there are any clues. 

[turbogirlnyc]

I wonder if the reveal is going to be that the rapist was Norma's dad all along, not Caleb, and what Caleb blames himself for is not recognizing it going on and saving her. Or suspecting it but not having the guts to stand up to the father. Norma might be so disgusted by the reality she's concocted an alternate version that's slightly less distasteful.

I think the snapshot in the following episode kind of rules out a 10 year age difference.

But hasn't Caleb admitted to it already? He was present in the home at the time but never mentioned their Dad. It seems like Caleb would've mentioned it to absolve himself. Especially to Dylan.

I believe he and Norma were physically and mentally abused by their father. Their mother was sedated most of the time but she might've been an abuser or abusee (not a word). As awful as it was for brother & sister, it does not excuse Caleb raping Norma.

[Guest]

But hasn't Caleb admitted to it already? He was present in the home at the time but never mentioned their Dad. It seems like Caleb would've mentioned it to absolve himself. Especially to Dylan.

I believe he and Norma were physically and mentally abused by their father. Their mother was sedated most of the time but she might've been an abuser or abusee (not a word). As awful as it was for brother & sister, it does not excuse Caleb raping Norma.

I don't know, the post I quoted said all he said about it was that "it wasn't like that" stuff.  But, yeah, he seems happy to be seen as a bio-father to Dylan, which would be odd if he had nothing to do with it except being blamed by Norma in denial for something worse.  

 

Maybe Caleb is using Norma's story to get close to Dylan and when he is, he'll tell him he's really just his uncle, or will get Norma to.  And that he (Caleb) and Norma both blame him (Caleb) for the rape that did happen, so he didn't immediately dispute her story.  Maybe he'll admit he even was attracted to her and wanted them to be intimate, another source of guilt and shame.  

[editorgrrl]

But hasn't Caleb admitted to it already?

Caleb flat-out confessed, then he tried to backpedal:

Dylan: Was it really like she said it was?

Caleb: Yeah, it was. Maybe. Not exactly.

[Bec]

Dylan definitely grew up with Norma and Norman's father. Sample dialogue from the show's second episode "I grew up in a house with you, remember? It was always what you had to do for Norman." and "They talked about how sad it is that Sam died, what a wonderful husband and father he was. I wonder what they'll think if I tell them what life with Sam was really like."

 

So basically, when Dylan was little, Norma dumped Dylan's father for the new love of her life, Norman's dad, who turned out to be an abusive asshole, and if that dialogue and the flashback with Norma and little Norman hiding from Sam in a closet was any indication, Dylan was largely ignored by Norma and left to fend for himself against Sam. No wonder Dylan was so resentful when he first showed up! He kept trying to turn Norman against Norma early on, until Norma told him Norman blacked out and killed his own father. (I don't know why it didn't really hit me that Dylan grew up in such a horrible environment when I first watched it. I guess there was a lot to digest on the first go-round.)

 

I keep going back to that story that she was telling a psychiatrist in the first or second season. Anybody know which episode that was.

It was the last episode of season 1. She said her dad was very kind and her mom worked in a bakery and always smelled like cookies. And that they were both dead and she was an only child.

 

Maybe Caleb is using Norma's story to get close to Dylan and when he is, he'll tell him he's really just his uncle

If Norma's father fathered Dylan, Caleb would be his brother AND his uncle. His bruncle!

Edited April 10, 2015 by Bec

[Guest]

Caleb flat-out confessed, then he tried to backpedal:

Dylan: Was it really like she said it was?

Caleb: Yeah, it was. Maybe. Not exactly.

Then I don't know what they're doing with the Caleb whitewash.  Though with Cuse involved, who knows.  Doublespeak like that was the norm on Lost.  That and unasked questions and other weird dialog tactics to make things seem mysterious and ambiguous.  

[editorgrrl]

Well, here's everything Caleb said. (I was on my phone before.):

 

Dylan: Was it really like she said it was?

Caleb: Yeah, it was. Maybe not exactly. I mean, we're so close, her and me. We were all we had. We were like two kids raising ourselves. So we spent all of our time together. It just happened, you know—she was more than a sister to me. I mean, she was my whole world, my whole life. I mean, I loved her. You can't help who you love. But your mom, she was smarter than me, you know. She, she figured shit out. One day, she came home and said it was bad, you know, that we couldn't anymore. And the way she looked at me, I couldn't breathe. You know, I loved her more than anything, and I just [sob] I just couldn't let her go. I hate myself for it. I know I don't deserve it, but I wish I could say I'm sorry. That's all I want. She doesn't have to forgive me, I just want to tell her I'm sorry before I never have another chance.

 

So I just don't buy the theory that Caleb never molested Norma, that he's covering up for their father or something.

[Guest]

Yeah, that sounds pretty bad.  I wonder what's behind them making him act all sweet and sacrificing and repentant now, though.  I guess it could be just to make viewers question Norma's story, or to justify him living with Dylan.

 

I'll predict Norman's going to kill Caleb soon, and he's being semi-whitewashed so that it's not a clear cut case of 'Norman murdered a very bad man'.  Each kill of Norman's is getting less excusable.  Killing  your mother's child rapist is still pretty excusable (in tv story terms) but less so if he's a repentant uncle who loves his sister and son.   Maybe.  Who knows.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

Dylan: Kramer

flash drive: spare key

weed timer: Jerry's intercom/building buzzer

Gunner: Jerry