Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[OtterMommy]

12 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

We will agree to disagree.  There are plenty of actors that have turned shit into gold.  

And there are many strong, capable actors who have been brought down by bad scripts and directing.

[tpel]

I, too, have never had a problem with ET's acting. Early on, I thought she was better than DG, though he grew into his role and she was given progressively more preposterous scenarios that I'm not sure any actor could salvage. The problem with Juliette's role was that it could not continue indefinitely as originally introduced, and the writers had no idea how to change it. What I mean is, the season 1 supportive-yet-clueless girlfriend role lasted longer than it should have. When Nick proposed to Juliette without telling her that he had a supernatural duty that could endanger her life, the only conclusion the audience could draw was that Nick is a bad person: he's too cowardly to have a hard conversation, or he doesn't really respect the autonomy of the person he supposedly loves. So, something had to change. But once Juliette knew about Nick's Grimdom, the writers had to either get rid of her, or find a new role for her. They chose to keep her, and occasionally we had glimmers of how she could have been a valuable, yet still secondary character. She geeked out over new knowledge; she created case files; she used modern search tools; she could identify animal bite patterns. She also developed warm and natural friendships with other female characters, notably Rosalie and Trubel. But these good points were overshadowed by silly drama. And instead of expanding on what worked--imagine the kick-ass mainstream science + naturopathy and folklore team Juliette and Rosalie could have made--the writers decided that giving her super powers was the only way to make her important.

Honestly, I don't care what ET or CC or SR or any of the actors pushed for. That's an actor's job: to hustle, to see the story through their character's eyes, to keep the paychecks coming. Producers may take the cast members' ideas into consideration, but at the end of the day, it's their job to decide what is best for the show. If they cave in to actors, or vociferous fans for that matter, they are not doing their job. If Damien Puckler told them that Meisner should turn out to be Renard's long lost brother and take over the royal family, the show-runners should smile at him and say, "We really just want you to kick people in the head."

[Darklazr]

21 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

And there are many strong, capable actors who have been brought down by bad scripts and directing.

Like I said, we will agree to disagree.

[OtterMommy]

22 hours ago, tpel said:

Honestly, I don't care what ET or CC or SR or any of the actors pushed for. That's an actor's job: to hustle, to see the story through their character's eyes, to keep the paychecks coming. Producers may take the cast members' ideas into consideration, but at the end of the day, it's their job to decide what is best for the show. If they cave in to actors, or vociferous fans for that matter, they are not doing their job. If Damien Puckler told them that Meisner should turn out to be Renard's long lost brother and take over the royal family, the show-runners should smile at him and say, "We really just want you to kick people in the head."

Word!  

It is perfectly within any professional's right to ask for something.  Do I think that ET asked for what happened to her character?  No.  Do I think that ET asked that her character be given some substance...maybe.  And, given what Juliette was, do you blame her?  I am completely convinced that she did NOT ask for her bizarre new character to be at the expense of the lead's (not only because I don't think any actress would do that, but also because she has a personal interest in the lead of the show doing well).

If Sasha Roiz asks for Renard to be evil again (which it sounds like he's only getting for half a season), no one bats an eye.  No one would dare suggest that Claire Coffee asked to have Adalind become a more prominent character and/or become on of the good guys.  But, ET so much as sneezes and people jump on her for trying to take things over.  Why the double standard?

And we know that the morons leading things don't automatically give the actors what they want.  DG was very blunt about not wanting a certain plot development...and he lost (and, in this case, they really SHOULD have listened to an actor!).

Here's what I think happened.  K/G/C are not quite stupid enough to not know that they had to do something with Juliette.  Unfortunately, they are stupid enough to choose to do the worst possible thing.  No, I don't think the Eve mess had anything to do with ET or what she wanted....it had to do with K/G/C being unable to put together a decent story.

[withanaich]

15 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

But, ET so much as sneezes and people jump on her for trying to take things over.  Why the double standard?

I don't understand why everyone decided to pile on, either. I don't think she's Meryl Streep or anything (but then, how would we know, given the hand she's been dealt here?), but I don't know if even the best actress in the world could make this character a fan favorite. It's not just an issue of lackluster dialogue or stupid storylines, it's the fact that she's being written by writers who DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. We'll never know if ET could've made this role into something awesome, but we do know that it could've been a lot better than it was and that's not her fault. You can't look at aaaaaaaaaall of the problems on this show and assume that this one problem is entirely or even mostly the fault of the actress. Even if she did come storming in and said, "Stop everything! You need to give Juliette amnesia and then make her obsess over Renard and then become a hexenbiest and be evil and burn down the trailer and sleep with Renard and get killed and then get healed by the magic stick you haven't even thought up yet" -- and I highly doubt that she did -- what kind of dumbass writers would actually go along with that? Even in that unlikely scenario, this is the fault of the folks behind the scenes, who are the ones making the big decisions. Even before ET was cast, they had no idea what they were going to do with this character. No family history, no personality traits, and they changed her job at the last minute on a whim and for a stupid reason (when they had a perfectly good one built into the plot!). How anyone can lay such poor planning and poor decision-making overall at the feet of a single actor is beyond me.

[Darklazr]

I find all of the actors on the show to be very capable, except for Juliette/ET.   Juliette has been a robotic character from day one and that has not changed in over 100 plus episodes.  Why write "Eve" in the first place if not to take advantage of ET's lack of emotions?  

It could be the writers had a love interest for Nick in Juliette and were just too lazy to recast the role or kill off the character.  Regardless, this show is going off the air in twelve weeks and that makes me sad.

[OtterMommy]

11 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

I find all of the actors on the show to be very capable, except for Juliette/ET.   Juliette has been a robotic character from day one and that has not changed in over 100 plus episodes.  Why write "Eve" in the first place if not to take advantage of ET's lack of emotions?  

I actually never found Juliette to be robotic--I found her to have a lot of weird dialogue and confusion motivations, but robotic is not a word I would use to describe ET's performance as Juliette.  As Eve, both ET and the show runners have said that her direction was to play the role in a robotic way.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I actually never found Juliette to be robotic--I found her to have a lot of weird dialogue and confusion motivations, but robotic is not a word I would use to describe ET's performance as Juliette.  As Eve, both ET and the show runners have said that her direction was to play the role in a robotic way.

I think she was comically robotic as Eve.  Laughably.  Over the top with the robotic.  I didn't mind her as Juliette.  Now she's not robotic Eve, but she's not Juliette either, though she is not only feeling some regret, she can't fully hexen or something.  I thought a made hexenbiest was the most powerful thing ever, yadda yadda.  Could they maybe address what is happening, Adalind or Rosalee chime in with their opinion?  Rosalee always has an answer right at hand lately.

[OtterMommy]

Just now, ShadowFacts said:

I think she was comically robotic as Eve.  Laughably.  Over the top with the robotic.  I didn't mind her as Juliette.  Now she's not robotic Eve, but she's not Juliette either, though she is not only feeling some regret, she can't fully hexen or something.  I thought a made hexenbiest was the most powerful thing ever, yadda yadda.  Could they maybe address what is happening, Adalind or Rosalee chime in with their opinion?  Rosalee always has an answer right at hand lately.

Well, Juliette was the most powerful hexenbiest ever because she was made.  But Diana is also the most powerful hexenbiest ever because...her mom rubbed gross goo on her stomach?  This is a problem...."the most powerful (insert whatever you want here) ever" means THERE IS ONLY ONE.  But this show wants us to ignore that.

Yeah, what little I saw of Eve was laughably robotic, but it was also how she was told to act.  I don't think we can say that comment of ET's acting, but actually a mark on how she takes direction.  It will be interesting to see what she does now that she's some sort of weird combination of two characters.  Because that makes sense.

[OtterMommy]

From the 602 thread, @Morrigan2575 wrote:

Quote

 

Diana's super Hexenbeist powers make perfect sense given the events during Adiland's pregnancy.

In order to get her powers back Adiland (helps to) kill Frau Pech, chopped her up, plucked out her eyes and buried her body parts in a field which killed all the flowers. She then had to pick all the magically killed flowers, put them in Frau Pech's carcass, wait for the flowers and Frau Pech's organs to liquefy, turning them into a paste which she rubbed on her belly every night. A paste which when applied formed a skull on her stomach and later the baby was shown to have an evil skull like form (against her belly). Plus we saw that Diana was using her powers even in womb to protect herself and Adiland (magically killing a Verrat when they came to kidnap her, setting off electricity in a cafe, etc)

There's nothing In Show that says Diana is just a 3/4 or 1/2 Hexenbeist.  Everything in show says that Diana is special because of the (dark) magic used during Adiland's pregnancy. 

 

I don't disagree with you about the fractionality of hexism, but I do think that there are still problems with how Adalind got her powers.  First of all, is Adalind a natural or a made hexenbiest (probably both), but shouldn't the "made" part of her be tied in some way to the magical contract that was so binding that it was never mentioned again?  

Let's say that Diana's powers do come from the magic goo, which was part of the magic spell...Adalind essentially broke that contract when she ran off with Diana, then why does Diana have powers?  Hell, why does Adalind have powers?

Also, the skull on Adalind's abdomen--what exactly does it mean?  Does it mean something evil?  If so, the idea that Diana is just a powerful kid with no moral compass is invalid.  If it means death (which is what it has meant in the past...sometimes), then why the hell are we still stuck with Adalind?

I'm rambling, I know.  I guess my point is that Diana seems to be a microcosm of everything that is wrong with the show...and then they have to add insult to injury by getting an, um, "green" child actress to recite her lines.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

From the 602 thread, @Morrigan2575 wrote:

I don't disagree with you about the fractionality of hexism, but I do think that there are still problems with how Adalind got her powers.  First of all, is Adalind a natural or a made hexenbiest (probably both), but shouldn't the "made" part of her be tied in some way to the magical contract that was so binding that it was never mentioned again?  

Let's say that Diana's powers do come from the magic goo, which was part of the magic spell...Adalind essentially broke that contract when she ran off with Diana, then why does Diana have powers?  Hell, why does Adalind have powers?

Also, the skull on Adalind's abdomen--what exactly does it mean?  Does it mean something evil?  If so, the idea that Diana is just a powerful kid with no moral compass is invalid.  If it means death (which is what it has meant in the past...sometimes), then why the hell are we still stuck with Adalind?

I'm rambling, I know.  I guess my point is that Diana seems to be a microcosm of everything that is wrong with the show...and then they have to add insult to injury by getting an, um, "green" child actress to recite her lines.

As much as I dislike Juliette, it makes me even more annoyed that this show allowed Adalind to get away with helping to kill Frau Pech, regain her powers and give birth to an alive Diana!  Adalind broke the binding contract that Stefania forced her to sign when she SOLD her baby to the Royal's and is now raising said child.  The contract was binding and should still be in play with Adalind losing her powers, her life, Diana's death or losing her uber special snowflake powers.  Why write the binding contract if Adalind ends up not losing ANYTHING in the end?  Sure, Adalind fell in love with her baby and that child's death should have been a daily reminder that she CHOSE to sell her kid in order to regain her powers.  Adalind should not be written as the best darned mother that ever had a baby, when we know she sold that kid!

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

As much as I dislike Juliette, it makes me even more annoyed that this show allowed Adalind to get away with helping to kill Frau Pech, regain her powers and give birth to an alive Diana!  Adalind broke the binding contract that Stefania forced her to sign when she SOLD her baby to the Royal's and is now raising said child.  The contract was binding and should still be in play with Adalind losing her powers, her life, Diana's death or losing her uber special snowflake powers.  Why write the binding contract if Adalind ends up not losing ANYTHING in the end?  Sure, Adalind fell in love with her baby and that child's death should have been a daily reminder that she CHOSE to sell her kid in order to regain her powers.  Adalind should not be written as the best darned mother that ever had a baby, when we know she sold that kid!

Let me introduce you to this show called Grimm, where there are absolutely no consequences for any actions or plot devices.... 

I know that is a blanket statement and there have been times where there were consequences (Juliette taking the bong hit to become Adalind to sleep with Nick so he could get his grimmness back, and....um.....)  But, here's how story telling works.  Something happens or someone does something.  Let's call that the "action".  Then, something else happens, we'll call that the "consequence."  Repeat.  The problem with Grimm is that it only does the first part.  Someone does something or something happens.  And then that's it.  That's not story telling and any writer who can't get past that has no business working on a network show.

Edited January 17, 2017 by OtterMommy
Typos

[Darklazr]

On 1/16/2017 at 9:50 PM, OtterMommy said:

Let me introduce you to this show called Grimm, where there are absolutely no consequences for any actions or plot devices.... 

I know that is a blanket statement and there have been times where there were consequences (Juliette taking the bong hit to become Adalind to sleep with Nick so he could get his grimmness back, and....um.....)  But, here's how story telling works.  Something happens or someone does something.  Let's call that the "action".  Then, something else happens, we'll call that the "consequence."  Repeat.  The problem with Grimm is that it only does the first part.  Someone does something or something happens.  And then that's it.  That's not story telling and any writer who can't get past that has no business working on a network show.

I really enjoy my sexy pants Renard, but it made more sense for Diana's death to be the consequences that he and Adalind had to face because of their previous actions (trying to kill Marie, killing the Royal cousin and bodyguard, Renard's previous dark life, raping Hank and Nick, putting Juliette in a coma, Juliette becoming a hexenbiest,,,etc).  I was fine with Renard getting shot and the subsequent bleeding episodes from s4, but the return of Diana just makes my eyes twitch.  Why IS this child needed on this show?  Adalind sold the kid and there is ZERO fallout (at least right now).    There should be consequences for Juliette for everything that she did as a hexenbiest and not just let the character dance back into her previous old life.  There should be consequences for Nick screwing Adalind after the hell that she put him and Juliette through.  But, no, the show is more concerned with sex nonsense, rape babies and uber powerful special snowflake Diana.  Sheesh.

Now that Juliette is no longer a hexenbiest, she should be furious that Nick allowed himself to live and sleep with Adalind!  WTF?!  I don't like the character of Juliette, but no woman or man would be okay with knowing that the only reason they are not with their loved one is because of Adalind's evil crap.  There is not enough bleach or antibiotics in the world to kill whatever Nick contracted after Adalind's tour of sleaze town.

[icewolf]

Anyone else think Grimm worked better as a police procedural with case of the week episodes inspired by fairy tales in the early seasons (mostly 1 and 2)? One of the advantages with procedurals like Law & Order: SVU, is that there is very little focus on characters' personal lives, sidestepping tons of usual bad soap opera writing.

The moment the Grimm changed to focus on big arcs, it started tanking because the arcs never made any sense or were badly written.

Adalind is also a huge problem because the writers never knew what to do with her, in an alternate reality Adalind disappeared after season one and never came back, and Grimm became a much better show because of that.

I don't understand the fascination with taking villains and giving them a ton of screen time, and trying to redeem them. That has killed a ton of shows.

Edited January 17, 2017 by icewolf

[blazar]

4 hours ago, icewolf said:

I don't understand the fascination with taking villains and giving them a ton of screen time, and trying to redeem them. That has killed a ton of shows.

What shows was it killed by it?

5 hours ago, Darklazr said:

Now that Juliette is no longer a hexenbiest,

She still a hexinbiest.

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I don't disagree with you about the fractionality of hexism, but I do think that there are still problems with how Adalind got her powers.  First of all, is Adalind a natural or a made hexenbiest (probably both), but shouldn't the "made" part of her be tied in some way to the magical contract that was so binding that it was never mentioned again?  

Things that are supposed to be binding aren't often binding on this show.  Right now, Adalind has powers back even though she took a suppression potion.  Granted, suppress maybe doesn't always mean permanent, but it cheapened the deed for me when it wasn't.  Same for death and coming back from death.  That always puts me off on any show.

7 hours ago, icewolf said:

Anyone else think Grimm worked better as a police procedural with case of the week episodes inspired by fairy tales in the early seasons (mostly 1 and 2)? One of the advantages with procedurals like Law & Order: SVU, is that there is very little focus on characters' personal lives, sidestepping tons of usual bad soap opera writing.

I absolutely agree.  A little of the Royals and resistance on the side was OK, but the increased focus on the soapy baby stuff and then hexening Juliette and the Black Claw mess all contributed to the demise. 

[Darklazr]

19 hours ago, blazar said:

What shows was it killed by it?

She still a hexinbiest.

Juliette can no longer woge, so is she still a hexenbiest?  I don't remember seeing her with any powers last week, but able to see a couple of figures on the cloth which is/was part of the death grip.

16 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Things that are supposed to be binding aren't often binding on this show.  Right now, Adalind has powers back even though she took a suppression potion.  Granted, suppress maybe doesn't always mean permanent, but it cheapened the deed for me when it wasn't.  Same for death and coming back from death.  That always puts me off on any show.

I absolutely agree.  A little of the Royals and resistance on the side was OK, but the increased focus on the soapy baby stuff and then hexening Juliette and the Black Claw mess all contributed to the demise. 

This is where the binding contract that Adalind signed could have come into play, because once she suppressed the powers they NEVER came back.  Kelly and Diana are NEVER found or Kelly returns the child who is dying to be with Renard and Adalind.  Regardless, there should have been a lasting consequence to what Adalind did to regain her powers and I don't mean being the best darned mother in the world!

[OtterMommy]

11 hours ago, icewolf said:

Anyone else think Grimm worked better as a police procedural with case of the week episodes inspired by fairy tales in the early seasons (mostly 1 and 2)? One of the advantages with procedurals like Law & Order: SVU, is that there is very little focus on characters' personal lives, sidestepping tons of usual bad soap opera writing.

The moment the Grimm changed to focus on big arcs, it started tanking because the arcs never made any sense or were badly written.

Adalind is also a huge problem because the writers never knew what to do with her, in an alternate reality Adalind disappeared after season one and never came back, and Grimm became a much better show because of that.

I don't understand the fascination with taking villains and giving them a ton of screen time, and trying to redeem them. That has killed a ton of shows.

I do think that Grimm worked better as procedural--that was the "contract" with the viewer.  Yes, shows evolve, but fundamentally changing the format of a show is pretty much a no-no.  

That being said, I think Grimm also could have worked as a scripted drama with long arcs--but only if it had always been that show.  The sad part is it COULD have always been that show, with a secondary procedural element.  But the showrunners didn't have enough (any?) foresight for that.

2 hours ago, Darklazr said:

Juliette can no longer woge, so is she still a hexenbiest?  I don't remember seeing her with any powers last week, but able to see a couple of figures on the cloth which is/was part of the death grip.

Honestly, I don't think that anyone knew when this was filmed if she was still a hexenbiest.  This episode was written (and possibly filmed) when the showrunners still thought they had 22 episodes to work with.  I would put money on that they hadn't decided what to do at that point.  

Which is crap because not only does it put ET in an unfair position--she has no idea how she should be playing this role--but also the AUDIENCE TOTALLY KNOWS THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!

[Darklazr]

4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I do think that Grimm worked better as procedural--that was the "contract" with the viewer.  Yes, shows evolve, but fundamentally changing the format of a show is pretty much a no-no.  

That being said, I think Grimm also could have worked as a scripted drama with long arcs--but only if it had always been that show.  The sad part is it COULD have always been that show, with a secondary procedural element.  But the showrunners didn't have enough (any?) foresight for that.

Honestly, I don't think that anyone knew when this was filmed if she was still a hexenbiest.  This episode was written (and possibly filmed) when the showrunners still thought they had 22 episodes to work with.  I would put money on that they hadn't decided what to do at that point.  

Which is crap because not only does it put ET in an unfair position--she has no idea how she should be playing this role--but also the AUDIENCE TOTALLY KNOWS THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!

We found out last March/April that NBC was only giving Grimm 13 episodes and that was plenty of time to wrap up the show.  So, I don't buy that they had no clue on what to do with Juliette or the other characters.

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

We found out last March/April that NBC was only giving Grimm 13 episodes and that was plenty of time to wrap up the show.  So, I don't buy that they had no clue on what to do with Juliette or the other characters.

No, it was June or July.  The show wasn't even renewed until the last possible moment in May.  (So the episode was probably written before the season was cut short, but filmed afterwards?)

Mea culpa...it was renewed in April and cut short a week or so afterwards.  So, yeah...  I tried to give them an, um, "excuse"? but even that doesn't hold up.

Edited January 17, 2017 by OtterMommy

[withanaich]

That's terrible.  I think we're supposed to read Eve/Juliette's inability to woge as her hexen powers waning because she got hit with the magic stick (oh my god), but I'm just guessing, and the reason I have to guess is not because the writers are cleverly keeping us in suspense, but because they probably hadn't figured it out by the time they filmed these scenes! And then you read the articles where the showrunners are just giggling to themselves like "no, no, we totally know what we're doing but um thank GOD we don't have to come up with enough stuff for a full season," and it's just infuriating. Their attitude makes me think they torpedoed the show on purpose when they realized they'd well and truly painted themselves into a corner. So tacky. 

[OtterMommy]

9 minutes ago, withanaich said:

That's terrible.  I think we're supposed to read Eve/Juliette's inability to woge as her hexen powers waning because she got hit with the magic stick (oh my god), but I'm just guessing, and the reason I have to guess is not because the writers are cleverly keeping us in suspense, but because they probably hadn't figured it out by the time they filmed these scenes! And then you read the articles where the showrunners are just giggling to themselves like "no, no, we totally know what we're doing but um thank GOD we don't have to come up with enough stuff for a full season," and it's just infuriating. Their attitude makes me think they torpedoed the show on purpose when they realized they'd well and truly painted themselves into a corner. So tacky. 

Sadly, I think this is a distinct possibility....

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

No, it was June or July.  The show wasn't even renewed until the last possible moment in May.  (So the episode was probably written before the season was cut short, but filmed afterwards?)

Mea culpa...it was renewed in April and cut short a week or so afterwards.  So, yeah...  I tried to give them an, um, "excuse"? but even that doesn't hold up.

Eh.  We all thought Grimm would start back up in October.  The show runners were probably hoping one of the new/old shows would flop and they could squeeze out more episodes or another year.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Darklazr

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Eh.  We all thought Grimm would start back up in October.  The show runners were probably hoping one of the new/old shoes would flop and they could squeeze out more episodes or another year.

That might be part of it...it wasn't until much later that it was announced that Grimm wouldn't come back until January (just checked...Grimm didn't show up on the Fall schedule when it came out in June and then it was announced at the end of August--after filming had been going on for over a month, so probably 3-4 episodes had been filmed--that this would be Grimm's final season).  

[Dobian]

On 1/12/2017 at 1:40 PM, OtterMommy said:

I actually never found Juliette to be robotic--I found her to have a lot of weird dialogue and confusion motivations, but robotic is not a word I would use to describe ET's performance as Juliette.  As Eve, both ET and the show runners have said that her direction was to play the role in a robotic way.

Maybe robotic isn't the right word, but in her early days on the show when Juliette was the resident "girlfriend", she lacked warmth and emotional depth that really became noticeable when Rosalee came along and you could see the stark contrast.

But she is far from the worst problem with Grimm.  I had no problem with them turning her into a hexenbiest to make the character more fun.  It was kind of like how on Gotham they transformed Barbara from a whiny drippy girlfriend into a vampy evil psycho.  Everyone used to hate Barbara, now many think she's great.  The major problem with Grimm all along has been its overarching plot with the ridiculous Royals and this neo-Nazi wesen movement.  Whenever shows start to go macro and make it all about saving the world, they totally lose focus and believability.

On 1/16/2017 at 11:13 PM, icewolf said:

Anyone else think Grimm worked better as a police procedural with case of the week episodes inspired by fairy tales in the early seasons (mostly 1 and 2)? One of the advantages with procedurals like Law & Order: SVU, is that there is very little focus on characters' personal lives, sidestepping tons of usual bad soap opera writing.
 

Ummm let me think for a minute.....YES

[Free]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:13 PM, icewolf said:

Anyone else think Grimm worked better as a police procedural with case of the week episodes inspired by fairy tales in the early seasons (mostly 1 and 2)? One of the advantages with procedurals like Law & Order: SVU, is that there is very little focus on characters' personal lives, sidestepping tons of usual bad soap opera writing.

The moment the Grimm changed to focus on big arcs, it started tanking because the arcs never made any sense or were badly written.

Adalind is also a huge problem because the writers never knew what to do with her, in an alternate reality Adalind disappeared after season one and never came back, and Grimm became a much better show because of that.

I don't understand the fascination with taking villains and giving them a ton of screen time, and trying to redeem them. That has killed a ton of shows.

Yes, especially since it's clear that they have no real plan or any idea on what to do, Juliette and Adalind's characters are examples of this.

[OtterMommy]

And, I'm out.  

I was talking with someone about TV today and I realized that watching this show makes me angry and resentful...and life is too short for that.  I don't need to be reminded 11 more times that this show was once good.  I'm just going to convince myself that it ended at season 4 and call it good.  I may check back here after all is said and done to see how it turned out.  But, beyond that, it's been great chatting with you all.  Hopefully I'll see some of you on the forums for other shows on this site...

[Darklazr]

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

And, I'm out.  

I was talking with someone about TV today and I realized that watching this show makes me angry and resentful...and life is too short for that.  I don't need to be reminded 11 more times that this show was once good.  I'm just going to convince myself that it ended at season 4 and call it good.  I may check back here after all is said and done to see how it turned out.  But, beyond that, it's been great chatting with you all.  Hopefully I'll see some of you on the forums for other shows on this site...

Sorry to see you leave, but I totally understand why.  Grimm was such a fun show and somehow the IIC managed to eff it up in season 4.  

However, I have $5 for the GoFundMe takeover Grimm at the end of s6 plans!

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, Darklazr said:

Adalind broke the binding contract that Stefania forced her to sign when she SOLD her baby to the Royal's and is now raising said child.  The contract was binding and should still be in play with Adalind losing her powers, her life, Diana's death or losing her uber special snowflake powers. 

Maybe it was sealed with the oh-so-powerful Trust-Me-Knot!

[Dobian]

16 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Maybe it was sealed with the oh-so-powerful Trust-Me-Knot!

That's what you get for casting a legal spell.  Even if it worked, it probably would be stopped by a Restraining-Order-Knot, followed by a Counter-Suit-Knot.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Dobian

[icewolf]

I hate how the entire mayor plot of season 5 turned out to be a HUGE waste of time now that Renard is no longer mayor, the guy didn't even spend a single day in office as mayor. Did the writers even think the plot through?

Season 5
"Quick! Let's give Sasha something to do since we have been wasting him for 3 seasons now! Let's have him become Mayor! Nice! Renard as the big evil political cheese!"
"Wait.... wait. Doesn't that mean as mayor, Renard will no longer be police captain and have no reason to be around Nick anymore, and we have to build new expensive sets?"
"Shut up, you! Go back to writing more Nadalind scenes!"

Season 6
"Oh crap! This is the final season! We need to get rid of the mayor plot ASAP! I know! Let's take three episodes, second episode can be complete filler, to reset the entire plot back to season one Renard with him being a shifty police captain!"
"But wouldn't that piss off everyone that has been watching so far?"
"We can distract those people with shirtless Renard! Lets also have him acting crazy with ghost Meisner haunting him because the acting crazy with the Jack the ripper plot worked out SO well!"

Edited January 29, 2017 by icewolf

[jhlipton]

Just now, icewolf said:

"We can distract those people with shirtless Renard! Lets also have him acting crazy with ghost Meisner haunting him because the acting crazy with the Jack the ripper plot worked out SO well!"

On the other hand, more Meisner (especially snarky Meisner) is not a Bad Thing.

[Free]

12 hours ago, icewolf said:

I hate how the entire mayor plot of season 5 turned out to be a HUGE waste of time now that Renard is no longer mayor, the guy didn't even spend a single day in office as mayor. Did the writers even think the plot through?

Season 5
"Quick! Let's give Sasha something to do since we have been wasting him for 3 seasons now! Let's have him become Mayor! Nice! Renard as the big evil political cheese!"
"Wait.... wait. Doesn't that mean as mayor, Renard will no longer be police captain and have no reason to be around Nick anymore, and we have to build new expensive sets?"
"Shut up, you! Go back to writing more Nadalind scenes!"

Season 6
"Oh crap! This is the final season! We need to get rid of the mayor plot ASAP! I know! Let's take three episodes, second episode can be complete filler, to reset the entire plot back to season one Renard with him be a shifty police captain!"
"But wouldn't that piss off everyone that has been watching so far?"
"We can distract those people with shirtless Renard! Lets also have him acting crazy with ghost Meisner haunting him because the acting crazy with the Jack the ripper plot worked out SO well!"

Grimm has been wasting seasons on storylines that went nowhere in the end.

[Darklazr]

16 hours ago, icewolf said:

I hate how the entire mayor plot of season 5 turned out to be a HUGE waste of time now that Renard is no longer mayor, the guy didn't even spend a single day in office as mayor. Did the writers even think the plot through?

Season 5
"Quick! Let's give Sasha something to do since we have been wasting him for 3 seasons now! Let's have him become Mayor! Nice! Renard as the big evil political cheese!"
"Wait.... wait. Doesn't that mean as mayor, Renard will no longer be police captain and have no reason to be around Nick anymore, and we have to build new expensive sets?"
"Shut up, you! Go back to writing more Nadalind scenes!"

Season 6
"Oh crap! This is the final season! We need to get rid of the mayor plot ASAP! I know! Let's take three episodes, second episode can be complete filler, to reset the entire plot back to season one Renard with him be a shifty police captain!"
"But wouldn't that piss off everyone that has been watching so far?"
"We can distract those people with shirtless Renard! Lets also have him acting crazy with ghost Meisner haunting him because the acting crazy with the Jack the ripper plot worked out SO well!"

The writers knew they only had 13 episodes to wrap up the show, so why not have everyone find out that Renard did NOT win the Mayoral race?  Renard and BC are pissed and want a recount....lol  The FBI is still probing the death of Dixon and have the new sleazy Mayoral winner (not Renard!) protected and they have notified the media that there is a terrorist organization sweeping the world with the "3 black claw" symbols? Renard should have killed Bonaparte on his own for using Diana as a weapon to keep him and Adalind in line. This is where we could have had a flashback scene of Renard meeting with Nick, Hank and Wu to lay out his plan to infiltrate BC and to clean out the police department informants.  A simple plan that did not destroy four seasons worth of writing for all four police officers. 

[icewolf]

So why are the writers choosing to focus on Juliette in what looks to be the final episodes?

Shouldn't the final episodes be ENTIRELY about Nick since it is his show and all that?

[Free]

1 hour ago, icewolf said:

So why are the writers choosing to focus on Juliette in what looks to be the final episodes?

Shouldn't the final episodes be ENTIRELY about Nick since it is his show and all that?

They don't seem to be trying, it's why it's been meandering for several seasons.

[icewolf]

Something big should be happening to Nick or Nick is doing something huge since he is the main character and all that, but instead Nick is reacting to the mess Juliette has gotten herself in. Why has he become a cleaner?

All the other characters should be serving his story not the other way around!

Edited March 18, 2017 by icewolf

[Darklazr]

4 hours ago, icewolf said:

Something big should be happening to Nick or Nick is doing something huge since he is the main character and all that, but instead Nick is reacting to the mess Juliette has gotten herself in. Why has he become a cleaner?

All the other characters should be serving his story not the other way around!

P.R.E.A.C.H!!!!!!!!!!  Juliette should have died at the end of s4 and I can not stress how much it pisses me off that she is still alive!  Ugh.  Nick IS the Grimm and he has been playing third and fourth string since they introduced Trubel, uber special snowflake Diana and JulietteEve!  It is beyond stupid and makes me sad that this show ends in two weeks and the titled character has been neutered!

The "green eyed monster" should be all about Nick.  The stick and the cloth should be all about the Grimm's and Nick figuring out with the help from everyone why it was hidden in the first place and why the stick had such a hardon for HIM and not the uber special snowflake Diana and not needed JulietteEve.  Ugh!  Rant.over!

[tennisgurl]

Ok, I have a weird observation. Are all Grimms and Wessen and Royals of some kind of Germanic origin? Because I get why Nick is focused on the German stuff, because his ancestors are from Germany and that's where his branch of Grimm's are from. But there are Wessen from all over the world from all different cultures, right? Just this episode we got references from Coyotles and Koshi, neither of which are German, even though we went to an alternate universe Wessen German Dark Forest. How does that work? I'm really not sure.

Edited March 18, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Prevailing Wind]

Neither are the writers.

[Darklazr]

Remember the episode where Alexander burned an Egyptian wesen body that was one of their ancestors or Gods?  I was under the impression that wesens were all over the world and that Grimms were extremely rather with their origins having started in Germany?  Along the way, I assumed (LOL) that Grimms married other humans over the centuries and that the information was in the book acquired by Nick and the Scoobies in s5.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Ok, I have a weird observation. Are all Grimms and Wessen and Royals of some kind of Germanic origin? Because I get why Nick is focused on the German stuff, because his ancestors are from Germany and that's where his branch of Grimm's are from. But there are Wessen from all over the world from all different cultures, right? Just this episode we got references from Coyotles and Koshi, neither of which are German, even though we went to an alternate universe Wessen German Dark Forest. How does that work? I'm really not sure.

I'm pretty sure that there was some reference to Royals being from other parts of the world, not just Europe. When the Black Claw/Hadrian's Wall arc started, we saw video of wesen uprisings (that apparently fizzled) all around the globe.  And earlier, didn't we see an assassin, sent by some Royals, who was Asian? 

30 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Along the way, I assumed (LOL) that Grimms married other humans over the centuries and that the information was in the book acquired by Nick and the Scoobies in s5.

Nick's father was not a Grimm, right? 

[Darklazr]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm pretty sure that there was some reference to Royals being from other parts of the world, not just Europe. When the Black Claw/Hadrian's Wall arc started, we saw video of wesen uprisings (that apparently fizzled) all around the globe.  And earlier, didn't we see an assassin, sent by some Royals, who was Asian? 

Nick's father was not a Grimm, right? 

In my head (LOL), Nick's lineage is outlined in the book from s5 and that shows his mother and father's ancestors were original "Grimm's" and two of the seven that found the stick.  Zoester aka the green eyed monster should be focusing on wanting to destroy Nick's family tree in this universe, so that he can in turn defeat them in his.