The Official Re-Read of Book 1: A Game Of Thrones

[Lady S.]

I wonder what Tywin would have said if he'd been there for Joffrey's cruel stupidity. Would it just have been another 'I think His Grace is tired' type moment or would he have taken the time to explain to Joffrey why killing Ned would be a bad idea. I can't recall if Cersei knows about Jaime yet or not. 

 

I wonder what Varys attempted to say? Littlefinger is curiously absent from being mentioned at all but we know he's lurking around somewhere and I can't recall why now but something is going to give me the impression later that Littlefinger was the asshole who put this idea in Joffrey's head in the first place. I don't know where it's said but initially I think Joffrey was going to go along with Cersei's idea for Ned to live out the rest of his days on the Wall. 

 

 

I have to think Tywin would have intervened since Ned's execution makes such a big deal. Maybe he could have talked directly to Ilyn Payne, since Ilyn was his man first. But it's a moot point, since Tywin's not being there to protect King's Landing is Cersei's big motivation for making this deal. No way she already knows about Jaime, that should have changed the plan entirely to see Ned being traded for Jaime instead of sent to the Wall. I remember it's in the last Sansa chapter that Joffrey mentions his mother telling him about Jaime's capture and crying.

 

Littlefinger is mentioned.

 

She saw Varys the eunuch gliding among the lords in soft slippers and a patterned damask robe, and she thought the short man with the silvery cape and pointed beard might be the one who had once fought a duel for Mother.

It's interesting that she knows that story, and I guess she must have heard from Sansa about meeting him or else overheard Sansa and Jeyne talking about it, to be able to recognize Littlefinger. I wonder why he's even mentioned here when we could have surmised his presence without Arya somehow noticing and recognizing him. It's Varys who later implies that he thinks Baelish talked Joffrey into it, but Tyrion doesn't take the hint.

 

This chapter also contains a rare instance of family member thinking about Rickon, "She wondered how big Rickon had grown, and whether Bran was sad." And something not so rare, the first of multiple fake-out cliffhanger chapter endings for Arya.

 

Back to the subject of what Sansa is to blame for after going to Cersei, it sounds like the Wind Witch would have departed already if Cersei hadn't known about it and set a trap there. So Arya only remembering it after being in Flea Bottom could mean she would have missed the boat anyway. And even if Sansa weren't herself a prisoner, Littlefinger could still want Ned dead for the chaos of it all and it's not unlikely he could have found a way without this botched deal by getting to Ned in the black cells.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Lady S.

[Holmbo]

I'm thinking Tywin would have probably drilled Joffrey to exactly what he was supposed to say and made him too scared to go of script. I'm not sure what he would have done if Joffrey despite this ordered Ned dead. Maybe he would have told Illyn Payne to take back Ned into the sept.

[WearyTraveler]

Interesting speculations about Tywin.  I think that he'd have never contradicted the King in such a public forum, but he might have asked for a pause, taken Joffrey aside and changed his mind.  Payne would have paused for Tywin.

 

I'm not sure if Tywin would have allowed such a circus to take place, though.  This thing, IIRC, was Cersei's doing.  Tywin would have made sure the deal was known to noble families and common people alike because he knows gossip travels far and wide, but I don't think he would have wanted a public humiliation of Ned, knowing how unpredictable such situations can be.

[nodorothyparker]

I'm inclined to think Tywin would have never let things come to this huge public spectacle on the sept steps.  The man was hand to the mad king for 20 years and by all accounts a good one for most of that in keeping the general order.  While I doubt Tywin would truly care what the common people think, he's also not shown to be stupid and would likely have enough sense to not want to kick off what they're all hoping will be a long and glorious Lannister reign by furthering war with the other great houses.  Up to this point, Joffrey looks like the rightful king dealing with rebellion by other disgruntled lords.  Ned's beheading makes him look like one more petty tyrant.

 

I'm not a huge Stark fan and later book Arya sometimes flat out bores me, but the perspective here is kind of gutting.  These are basically two little girls watching their beloved father be publicly humiliated and then beheaded with little warning to the cheers of the crowd.  There's no getting around how horrible it is and the effects will be felt all the way down the line.

 

One thing that does amuse me is all the wild rumors flying around about Robert and Renly.  There are similar scenes in the later books that show how in the absence of the higher lords who are ostensibly running things making it clear what's really going on the small folk are left to just make stuff up wholesale and fill in the blanks to thus judge accordingly, sometimes with some pretty harsh results.

[benteen]

Poor Ned. :(

 

I think Tywin would have been in control of things here and never allowed it to get this far.  Cersei being Cersei can never prevent events from getting far out of hand.  As Joffrey got older and descended further into madness, Tywin might have had his hands full.  I thought the show actually showed this during the Purple Wedding episode.

 

Varys and Tyrion talk about someone telling Joffrey that executing Ned is the right course of action although it is never dwelled on again after that.

 

I'm glad Yoren shielded Arya from seeing what happened to Ned. Given Arya's mental state, I can only imagine what that would have done with her.  Poor Arya is on a long, long journey from here that isn't even close to reaching its conclusion.

 

I said this before but Joffrey managed to screw over the Realm twice here.  Killing Ned completely committed both the North and the Riverland to full-scale war and he managed to deprieve the Wall of someone they could have used.  Although after Jaime's capture, Ned might have been kept around to use in a hostage trade.

Edited September 4, 2015 by benteen

[John Potts]

No way would Tywin publicly countermand an order from the King (though he might verbally slap him around in private) - the legal basis of his power is that he is the King's Minister and he can't be publicly seen to contradict him. Had it got to the "Bring me his head!" moment, he might just have spoken up to say, "Your Grace, might I suggest mercy in this case" (with the you idiot boy! left unspoken) and possibly mention (in private) that "accidents can happen on the road/at sea".

 

I presume Littlefinger was keeping quiet because he wanted to put the moves on Sansa and reckoned that, "Yeah, so I ordered your dad killed but I'm a totally stand up guy really!" would make for an awkward start to a seduction. Of course, Show!Littlefinger had that awkward seduction scene with Catelyn over her husband's corpse, so maybe he'd try it...

[Holmbo]

Good point about Tywin never allowing a public trial in the first place. Though considering how he handled the next trial for regicide we might be giving him too much props.

It's too bad that the story never got to a full Joffrey Tywin showdown. It feels like the older Joffrey got the less scared he'd be of Tywin and sooner or later it might get to a kill or be killed situation between them.

[Lady S.]

 

I'm not sure if Tywin would have allowed such a circus to take place, though.  This thing, IIRC, was Cersei's doing.  Tywin would have made sure the deal was known to noble families and common people alike because he knows gossip travels far and wide, but I don't think he would have wanted a public humiliation of Ned, knowing how unpredictable such situations can be.

Oh yeah, the whole spectacle had Cersei's stupid strategy written all over it, it was never a great plan to begin with. And for all the trouble Cersei goes to to seize power, she doesn't really wield it forcefully and openly while Tywin's still alive. She's just trusting in Joffrey to take care of things and is shocked when he disobeys her.

 

Something that sticks out to me as weird now is some of the smallfolk already expecting Ned's execution as they're summoned to the Sept of Baelor, even though it should be the most holy place in the South and the seat of their pope-equivalent. I'd think an execution taking in the church courtyard itself for the first time ever would be a pretty unusual thought, and that King's Landing probably has more traditional sites where people would expect executions. 

[Avaleigh]

Bran VII

 

Bran is watching Ser Rodrik train a bunch of guys down in the yard. He's upset that he can't be down there training with them and kind of snarks a bit on their capabilities as fighters. Most of the new guys are under the age of sixteen but there are a few who are older.

 

The yard is ringing with the sounds of the guys hacking away at each other with wooden swords and shouts of pain are frequent each time somebody takes a tough hit. Ser Rodrik seems to have his work cut out for him and he's all red in the face from dealing with these kids. Bran thinks that he's never seen Ser Rodrik look so fierce and constantly hears him telling the guys how wrong they're getting it.

 

Maester Luwin seems to agree with Bran that the men aren't very good and talks about how the cream of the crop went down to King's Landing with Ned while most of the others are now with Robb. Luwin knows that a bunch of these men are never going to come back home so they'll need to be replaced.

 

Bran stares at the guys training and thinks that he'd be able to handle himself fine if he still had the use of his legs. He remembers how easy it was for him to knock Prince Tommen to the ground. He suggests to Luwin that he could learn to train with a poleaxe while being on Hodor's back. He says that he and Hodor could be a knight if they work together, but Luwin tells Bran it's unlikely that something like this could work because a knight's mind and body have to be one.

 

Down in the yard Ser Rodrik is going all Bela Karolyi on the guys he's training and tells one of them that he fights like a goose. When one kid laughs at this, Ser Rodrik looks at him and tells him that he has no business laughing since he fights like a hedgehog.

 

Bran tells Maester Luwin that Old Nan once told him a story about a blind knight who was a great fighter but Luwin firmly tells Bran that these are only fairy tales and that he needs to put aside his childish dreams if he doesn't want to keep having his heart broken.

 

The mention of dreams reminded him. "I dreamed about the crow again last night. The one with three eyes. He flew into my bedchamber and told me to come with him, so I did. We went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad."

 

Luwin asks why Ned was sad and Bran says that he thinks it had something to do with Jon. Bran thinks that this dream was more disturbing than any of the other crow dreams and mentions to Luwin that Hodor flat out refuses to go down to the crypts even after Bran ordered him. Bran adds that he wanted to give Hodor a smack like Old Nan is always apparently doing but was able to resist the urge. Luwin firmly tells Bran that he'd better resist the urge and reminds him that Hodor isn't a mule to be beaten.

 

Luwin asks why Bran wants to go down to the crypts anyway and Bran again tells him that he wanted to go and look for his father. Luwin tells Bran that Ned is being held by the Queen in King's Landing and says that if the gods are good Ned won't go to his place in the crypt for many, many years.

 

Bran argues with Luwin that Ned was in the crypts last night and says that he talked to him. Luwin thinks that Bran is being stubborn and asks Bran if he'd like to see for himself that his father isn't down there. Bran again tells Luwin that Hodor won't go into the crypts and says that he wouldn't be able to take his horse down the winding steps.

 

Luwin solves the problem of getting Bran down into the crypts by getting Osha to carry him. Osha says that she isn't scared to go down to some hole in the ground and is able to easily carry Bran in her arms. While Osha is still forced to wear iron shackles on her ankles, she no longer has chains on her arms because she's been serving House Stark faithfully ever since the day she swore to Robb that she would serve them if she could keep her life.

 

They make their descent into the crypts and Summer comes along with them. Bran thinks back to how he used to play down there with his siblings. He wishes that his siblings could be down there with him now and thinks that if they were that the crypt wouldn't seem so scary. Even Osha seems a little unsettled and comments that the dead Starks are some grim looking characters.

 

Bran tells her that they were the Kings of Winter and Osha replies that winter has no king. Luwin says that the Starks were Kings of the North for thousands of years and said that they had to be hard men because they lived during such hard times.

 

Summer refuses to leave from the steps but the others continue to head down and Maester Luwin asks Bran to give Osha a bit of a history lesson on House Stark.

 

He looked at the passing faces and the tales came back to him. The maester had told him the stories, and Old Nan had made them come alive. "That one is Jon Stark. When the sea raiders landed in the east, he drove them out and built the castle at White Harbor. His son was Rickard Stark, not my father's father but another Rickard, he took the Neck away from the Marsh King and married his daughter. Theon Stark's the real thin one with the long hair and the skinny beard. They called him the 'Hungry Wolf,' because he was always at war. That's a Brandon, the tall one with the dreamy face, he was Brandon the Shipwright, because he loved the sea. His tomb is empty. He tried to sail west across the Sunset Sea and was never seen again. His son was Brandon the Burner, because he put the torch to all his father's ships in grief. There's Rodrik Stark, who won Bear Island in a wrestling match and gave it to the Mormonts. And that's Torrhen Stark, the King Who Knelt. He was the last King in the North and the first Lord of Winterfell, after he yielded to Aegon the Conqueror. Oh, there, he's Cregan Stark. He fought with Prince Aemon once, and the Dragonknight said he'd never faced a finer swordsman." They were almost at the end now, and Bran felt a sadness creeping over him. "And there's my grandfather, Lord Rickard, who was beheaded by Mad King Aerys. His daughter Lyanna and his son Brandon are in the tombs beside him. Not me, another Brandon, my father's brother. They're not supposed to have statues, that's only for the lords and the kings, but my father loved them so much he had them done."

 

Osha comments on the beauty of Lyanna's statue and Bran comments that Robert Baratheon was supposed to marry Lyanna only she was kidnapped and raped by Rhaegar Targaryen. Bran says that Robert fought a war to get Lyanna back.

 

Osha says that what happened with Lyanna, Rhaegar, and Robert was sad but she thinks that the empty and waiting holes in the wall are the really sad thing. They are in the spot of where Ned's tomb will be when his time comes.

 

Maester Luwin asks if this is where Bran saw Ned in his dream and Bran says that it is. Bran feels very uneasy and thinks that he hears a noise. He wonders if somebody else could be down there.

 

Just as Maester Luwin is saying that Bran doesn't have anything to worry about as far as Ned taking his place in the crypt prematurely, Luwin ends up getting attacked by Shaggydog. Bran screams for Summer and Summer ends up fighting with Shaggydog. Rickon calls out to Shaggydog and this ends up stopping the fight between the two direwolves.

 

Rickon tells Luwin to leave Ned alone and Bran tells Rickon that their father isn't there. Rickon is in tears and says that Ned was there and that he saw him in his dream last night. Rickon tells Luwin again to leave his father be and says that Ned will be coming home soon.

 

Maester Luwin seems unnerved by everything and Bran thinks to himself that he's never seen the maester look so uncertain before. He says that Shaggydog is supposed to be chained up in the kennels. Rickon freely admits that he let the direwolf out and adds that Shaggydog didn't like his chains.

 

Rickon wants to hang out in the crypts until Ned returns but Bran convinces him that they can wait for their father together along with their direwolves. Maester Luwin knows that Bran means well but thinks Shaggydog is too wild to be trusted to roam free. Luwin is the third man that Shaggydog has attacked.

Bran insists that they'll all wait in the maester's tower and Osha points out that Bran is the lord of the castle with his father and brother being away. Rickon agrees to leave the crypts if Shaggydog can come too so Luwin relents and they all head for the maester's tower together.

 

While Osha is helping him care for his wounds, Maester Luwin admits that it's odd that Bran and Rickon had the same dream but tries to chalk it up to being a coincidence, and says it's a natural dream to have since both boys miss their father. He tells Bran that dreams are only dreams but Osha argues that sometimes dreams can have a deeper meaning and says that the children of the forest could teach Luwin a thing or two about this. Luwin says that the children of the forest are long dead and only live in dreams.

 

"Old Nan says the children knew the songs of the trees, that they could fly like birds and swim like fish and talk to the animals," Bran said. "She says that they made music so beautiful that it made you cry like a little baby just to hear it."

 

Maester Luwin says that the children of the forest used magic and says that he wishes they were there now so that they could use a spell to help heal his arm. He adds that they'd even be able to control Shaggydog and keep him from biting. 

 

Luwin says that men who trust in magic are basically dueling with glass swords and says that the children of the forest learned this lesson better than anyone. Luwin shows them a handful of black arrowheads. Osha sees the arrowheads and calls them dragonglass and Maester Luwin says that they are called obsidian. Bran thinks they're beautiful and asks if he can keep one and Rickon decides he wants in on this too and asks to have four of the arrowheads since he's four years old.

 

Bran wants Luwin to tell him about the children of the forest and says that it's important.

 

Maester Luwin says that the children of the forest are from the Dawn Age before kings and kingdoms and before Westeros had castles, holdfasts, and cities. The children inhabited Westeros before the First Men came.

 

"They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with weirwood bows and flying snares. Their gods were the gods of the forest, stream, and stone, the old gods whose names are secret. Their wise men were called greenseers, and carved strange faces in the weirwoods to keep watch on the woods. How long the children reigned here or where they came from, no man can know.

 

Once the First Men started coming into the picture some twelve thousand years ago, they begin bringing horses, bronze weapons, and start cutting down and burning the freaky looking weirwood trees. This makes the children of the forest super angry so they decided to go to war with the First Men. The children are said to have used dark magic to shatter the arm of Dorne in order to stop the flood of First Men from coming. More of the children lose their lives during this fighting than men but eventually the children and the First Men are able to come to an understanding on the Isle of Faces which is a small island in the middle of a lake called the God's Eye.

 

The Pact was forged, the First Men got most of the land but the deep woods were supposed to remain the territory of the children of the forest. It was also agreed that no more weirwood trees would be cut down.

 

A sacred order of green men was formed during this period to keep watch over the Isle of Faces. The signing of the Pact also marks the beginning of the Age of Heroes.

 

For four thousand years the Pact was honored and the men and children were able to live in peace. The First Men even put aside their religion to worship the same gods as the children.

 

Osha says that the children are still alive north of the Wall and says that the giants and other forgotten races are living up there as well. Maester Luwin is annoyed to hear Osha say this and tells her that she's lucky to be alive; he doesn't think that she should repay the kindness of the Starks by filling Bran's head with lies and nonsense.

 

Luwin continues with the history of the children of the forest and says that they were finally driven out by the arrival of the Andals. The Andals brought over steel and the Faith of the Seven and they cut down weirwoods and slaughtered the children who remained in the south, eventually taking over six of the seven kingdoms. Only in the North did the rule of the First Men remain.

 

When Luwin begins talking about how the children fled north, Summer begins to howl and Shaggydog soon joins him. Bran says "It's coming" and thinks to himself that he's known this since last night. He'd wanted Maester Luwin to be right.

 

Bran thinks about the three eyed crow again.

 

The howling suddenly stops and an injured raven arrives at the window. Rickon begins to cry and he drops the dragonglass arrows he was holding. Bran hugs his brother.

 

Bran asks what's in the message and Osha tells Bran that he already knows what it is.

 

Maester Luwin's eyes fill up with tears and he tells Bran and Rickon that they'll need to find a stonecarver who knew their father's likeness well.

[benteen]

Bran consoling his brother is heartbreaking.

 

Brandon the Burner was a moron.

 

Watching the show and then reading the book, I was surprised with just how violent Shaggydog attacked him.

 

I had forgotten how Bran's chapters ended.

[Avaleigh]

This chapter was mostly a history lesson but there were some things about it that I liked. 

 

Luwin is well meaning but he's wrong about quite a few things and is just as stubborn as Bran at times. We know that he's wrong about the children being gone, we know that Bran will be able to use Hodor's body to fight (not that Luwin could have anticipated this one), he's wrong in thinking that it's a coincidence that Bran and Rickon had the same dream, he's wrong about thinking that Ned is going to be able to live for many more years, etc. 

 

I did get a bit of a laugh at four year old Rickon being given sharp dragonglass to play with. Shaggydog is a menace. He doesn't even get along with his brother. I also don't really understand how Rickon thought that Luwin was bothering Ned. Rickon also gave us our Stark tears.

 

I wonder what religion the First Men had before changing over to worship the Old Gods? 

 

Bran sounded a touch arrogant when he was thinking about his own abilities as a fighter. At the end of the day he's still, what, eight years old? I feel like he would been thwacked plenty if he'd been fighting against sixteen year olds and whatnot. 

 

Apart from Ser Rodrik I'm starting to think that Robb should have left a special guard behind for his brothers. Another reason he should have ordered Catelyn back so that she could bring those men with her. 

 

Agreed that Brandon the Burner sounded like a dumbass. 

 

I like the detail of Ned being the one to have statues made for Brandon and Lyanna. I wonder if Lyanna is the only female Stark to get a statue. I can't recall any mentions of Queens of Winter or of the North. 

 

Yeah, I got a little sad when Bran hugged Rickon. It's gonna be downhill for awhile for those poor kids. 

[benteen]

100% on Luwin.  He's a good man and I've always liked him but he's rigid as hell in his thinking, especially when he knows that creatures like dragons once existed.

[WearyTraveler]

I wonder what religion the First Men had before changing over to worship the Old Gods? 

 

I'm thinking R'hllor, maybe?

 

Obviously I liked the conversation Bran had with Ned in the crypts and how Ned was sad because of something to do with Jon.  It supports my theory that when Jon dies, he'll go to the end of the crypts, which he had never done in his dreams, and find out from Ned about his parentage.

 

I think Luwin in this chapter is meant to represent the paradigms and views of your average southern Westerosi.  Luwin got his chain in the citadel, after all, so his belief system reflects a southern mentality, regardless of how many years he's spent serving the Starks.  I think the point is that magic has been gone for so long that most everyone has stopped believing and what once was history is now considered fairytales.

 

Not a single person in Westeros is ready for the Others.

Edited September 9, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Holmbo]

I think Luwin is just meant to represent the general westerosians view on magic and children of the forest. Or perhaps non-maesters are a bit more open minded to magic.

[WearyTraveler]

I think Luwin is just meant to represent the general westerosians view on magic and children of the forest. Or perhaps non-maesters are a bit more open minded to magic.

 

I tend to agree that, on average, Westerosi people don't strongly believe in magic or the Children of the Forest.  That said, there are people in the North like the Reeds and Old Nan who know better.  Also, many families in the North still pray to the Old Gods, so, I think Northerners are perhaps more open to accept magic than Southerners.

[Holmbo]

I tend to agree that, on average, Westerosi people don't strongly believe in magic or the Children of the Forest. That said, there are people in the North like the Reeds and Old Nan who know better. Also, many families in the North still pray to the Old Gods, so, I think Northerners are perhaps more open to accept magic than Southerners.

That's true. So perhaps it's more that Luwin is a southerner (I assume) than that he's a maester. Do we know where he's from?

[WearyTraveler]

That's true. So perhaps it's more that Luwin is a southerner (I assume) than that he's a maester. Do we know where he's from?

 

I don't recall the books mentioning where Luwin is from. I talked about the maester thing because it's my understanding that it takes years and years of training from a very young (impressionable) age to become a master, or anything else, really.

 

I mean, Robb is 15 and he's marching off to war.  Sam, who is about Robb and Jon's age, was forced to take the black because Randyll didn't want him to become a master; had Sam been born into a less crazy noble family, it appears he would still have had to make up his mind, at that very young age, between his Lordship and a career at the Citadel.  Whatever career a young boy in Westeros is inspired to follow (girls are raised to be wives and mothers, for the most part), it seems he must start very early in his life, during years that are formative and shape the kind of adult these children become.

 

In Luwin's case, we know his chain is long and full of links, so, in addition to starting his training early, in a Southern city, he spent a long time forming his chain in that city.  So, in my mind, that contributed to Luwin having a more Southern view on the subjects of magic and the CotF

Edited September 9, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Holmbo]

I wonder what's the status to serving as a maester for the Starks. The north seems to be very low regarded by the southerners. On the other hand they are one of the major lords of the kingdom. I wonder if it's a sought after position or not.

[benteen]

We don't know much about Luwin's past though we do learn a little about the previous maester's past in A Dance with Dragons.  Maester Walys Flowers was a bastard from the Reach and supposedly encouraged Lord Rickard's "southern alliances."

 

Catelyn does mention that Luwin delivered all of her children.  We do know that Robb was born in the Riverlands during Robert's Rebellion so that's where Luwin originally met her. 

Edited September 9, 2015 by benteen

[Holmbo]

Catelyn does mention that Luwin delivered all of her children.  We do know that Robb was born in the Riverlands during the Wall so that's where Luwin originally met her. 

Ah good catch! :)

[SeanC]

I'm not clear whether Luwin delivering Robb is a GRRM goof or not, since it's very hard to explain why he would have been at Riverrun during the war (if he was supposed to have been Riverrun's maester, surely Catelyn would have thought about that at some point).

 

As far as Luwin's attitude toward magic goes, I don't think that's a North/South thing.  There's plenty of talk about sorcery, witches, etc. in the south.  I think it is because he's a maester.  This is especially a theme in the worldbook; the maesters are uber-rationalists who try to find logical explanations for everything.  Indeed, it's not like Old Nan, as far as we know, has any actual evidence that magic is real; she just believes a lot of old wives' tales, which as it turns out are true.

[Holmbo]

I bet old Nan is super magical. She is the ancestor of Hodor after all. There has to be more to him than we know right? :)

[Avaleigh]

Sansa VI

 

Sansa is in her room in a tower in Maegor's Holdfast. She alternates between crying and sleeping and can't bear the thought of eating anything. She keeps reliving the moment she saw her father's head being chopped off.

 

Sansa briefly entertains the idea of throwing herself out of the window and thinks about how singers will write songs about her grief and how seeing her dead body might shame those who've wronged her but when she flings open her window, all of her courage leaves her and she ends up throwing herself back onto her bed.

 

Servants try to talk to Sansa but she refuses to speak to them. Grand Maester Pycelle goes to Sansa's rooms with some potions and has her undress for him so that he can examine her and 'touch her all over'. Once he's done he gives her a potion and tells her to take a sip of it every night. Sansa downs the entire potion at once and goes back to sleep.

 

While Sansa is sleeping she has a nightmare that Ilyn Payne is coming to get her and take off her head with Ice. She dreams that she hears his footsteps and wakes up murmuring to herself that she'll be a good girl.

 

Joffrey and the Hound eventually force Sansa to get up so that she can attend Joffrey at court. Joffrey tells Sansa to make sure that she looks pretty but Sansa only wants to be left alone. She begs Joffrey to allow her to remain in her room but he has no sympathy for her and orders the Hound to force her out of bed.

 

As Sansa is standing there she tells Joffrey that she's done everything that has been asked of her and simply wants to be allowed to return to Winterfell. She swears that she won't commit any treason and that she doesn't have traitor's blood.

 

Joffrey informs Sansa that the Queen has said that they're still supposed to get married so Sansa is going to have to stay in King's Landing and do as she's told. Sansa tells Joffrey that she doesn't want to marry him anymore because he had her father's head cut off. Joffrey says that Sansa's father was a traitor and tells her that he was merciful; he says that if Ned hadn't been Sansa's father that he would have seen him torn or flayed instead.

 

Sansa looks at Joffrey and thinks it's as though she's seeing him for the first time in her life. She wonders how she could have ever thought he was handsome. She tells Joffrey that she hates him.

Joffrey gets upset when Sansa says this and orders Ser Meryn Trant to hit her. The knight gives her the back of his hand and makes her bleed. Joffrey asks if she'll obey or if he'll need to have Trant hit her again. Sansa is kind of dazed and stumbles over her words before telling Joffrey that she'll do as her lord commands. Joffrey reminds her that he should be addressed as 'Your Grace' now and turns to leave saying that he'll look for her at court.

 

Joffrey leaves and the Hound lingers for a moment to help Sansa to her feet and advises her to save herself some pain and trouble by giving Joffrey whatever it is he wants. Sansa wonders what it is that Joffrey wants and Sandor tells her that Joffrey wants her to be pretty, to love him, and to fear him.

 

Once the Hound leaves, Sansa gives orders to the girls serving her and instructs them to prepare a bath for her. She only issues commands to the servants because she views them as being Team Lannister.

 

After bathing, Sansa has breakfast and waits to be escorted down to Joffrey's court. Meryn Trant ends up being Sansa's escort and he talks to her as though he hadn't just smacked her around hours before. Sansa asks Trant if he's been instructed to beat her again if she refuses to come so Trant asks her if she is indeed refusing. Sansa realizes that Trant doesn't really have strong feelings about her predicament either way and is the type of man who is going to do as he's told. She wants to rage at Trant but then thinks about what the Hound told her, and simply responds that she will do whatever it is that Joffrey commands.

 

Trant replies that he does whatever it is that Joffrey wants as well and Sansa replies that this may be true, but pointedly comments that Trant is 'no true knight'. Sansa thinks to herself that other men would have had a reaction to these words but with Trant she sees that he just doesn't give a fuck.

 

Sansa watches Joffrey's court session alone from a balcony. Ninety percent of the cases seem to bore Joffrey and he leaves those to the small council. When Joffrey does choose to make a ruling, his mind is made up and not even Cersei can get him to change his opinion.

 

During the session, Joffrey has the hand of a thief chopped off right there in the throne room. He tells two men who are dealing with a land dispute that they can solve the matter by having a fight to the death. When a woman comes to plead for the head of a man who was executed for being a traitor, Joffrey assumes that she must be a traitor too and orders her to be taken down to the dungeons. 

 

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. "Life is not a song, sweetling," he'd told her. "You may learn that one day to your sorrow." In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound's voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. "Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants."

 

The last case of the day concerns a singer who wrote a song that makes fun of the late king as well as Cersei. The singer pleads for mercy and swears that he won't sing the song again. Joffrey is apparently moved by the singer so he tells the guy that he's going to be merciful and says he can choose to keep either his fingers or his tongue. He's so generous that he's even going to give the singer a day to make his choice.

 

Once the court session is finished Sansa tries to head back to her room but finds Joffrey waiting for her. He looks her up and down and tells her she looks a lot better than she did before. Sansa thanks him and Joffrey takes no notice of how empty her words sound. He commands for her to walk with him and Sansa thinks about how much Joffrey makes her skin crawl as she's forced to take his arm.

 

Joffrey starts babbling about his name day and wonders what gift Sansa is going to get for him. Sansa stammers a bit and says she hadn't really thought about it. She accidentally forgets to address Joffrey as His Grace again and he comments on how stupid he and Cersei think she is. Sansa seems wounded when she hears that the Queen thinks she's stupid and thinks about how kind Cersei has always been.

 

Joffrey says that Cersei wonders if any children that he and Sansa would have would turn out to be stupid too. He goes on to say that he'll impregnate Sansa as soon as possible and if their first child is stupid then he'll chop off Sansa's head and marry a smarter wife. He follows this up by asking Sansa when she thinks she'll be able to have children.

 

Sansa is embarrassed and says that Septa Mordane told her that most girls are twelve or thirteen when they flower.

 

Joffrey is leading Sansa up to the battlements and she freaks out once she realizes where they're headed. She begs and pleads for him to not make her go but Joffrey insists that he wants to show her what happens to traitors. Sansa tells him that she won't go so Joffrey threatens her again with Meryn Trant. The Hound again encourages Sansa to do as Joffrey says.

 

Sansa forces herself to take Joffrey's hand, they head up to the battlements together, and she braces herself for the horror she's about to witness on the ramparts.

 

Once they are at the top, Sansa begins to look out onto King's Landing and soon finds herself gazing north and thinking about Winterfell. Joffrey asks her what she's looking at and forces her to turn her gaze in the direction of the heads on spikes. Sansa thinks to herself that Joffrey can force her to look but he can't make her truly see.

 

Joffrey shows Sansa her father's head and has the Hound turn it around so that Sansa can get a better look. The head has been dipped in tar in order to preserve it and Sansa thinks to herself that it doesn't even really look like her father. She thinks the head hardly looks real at all. She asks Joffrey how long she'll have to look.

 

Joffrey seems disappointed with Sansa's reaction and asks if she wants to see more of the heads. Sansa says that she'll see more if that will please His Grace. He points out two spikes that have been left empty and says that those are reserved for the heads of his uncles Stannis and Renly. Joffrey also points out the rotting head of Septa Mordane.

 

Sansa wonders why Septa Mordane was killed and Joffrey simply responds that Mordane was a traitor. He starts pouting as though he isn't happy with Sansa's reaction here. He changes the subject and asks Sansa again what she plans on getting him for his nameday. He suggests that maybe he should give Sansa something instead. Sansa tells Joffrey he should do as he pleases.

 

Joffrey starts talking about how Robb is a traitor too and talks about how he remembers Robb from his visit to Winterfell. Joffrey also brings up how the Hound made fun of Robb by calling him the lord of the wooden sword but the Hound claims not to recall.

 

Joffrey gave a petulant shrug. "Your brother defeated my uncle Jaime. My mother says it was treachery and deceit. She wept when she heard. Women are all weak, even her, though she pretends she isn't. She says we need to stay in King's Landing in case my other uncles attack, but I don't care. After my name day feast, I'm going to raise a host and kill your brother myself. That's what I'll give you, Lady Sansa. Your brother's head."

 

Some sort of madness overtakes Sansa and before she can stop herself she responds by suggesting that perhaps Robb will give her the gift of Joffrey's head instead. 

 

Joffrey gets all pissed off after Sansa says this and insists that Sansa is never to mock him again. He commands for Trant to teach Sansa a lesson and this time Trant grabs her jaw and holds her in place as he hits her in the face. The blows split her lip open and make her cry.

 

Joffrey tells Sansa that she shouldn't be crying all the time and tells her that she's much prettier when she's doing stuff like smiling and laughing. Sansa actually forces herself to smile because she's worried about being hit again, but Joffrey still isn't satisfied and tells her to wipe off the blood because he doesn't like his betrothed to look messy.

 

The outer parapet came up to her chin, but along the inner edge of the walk was nothing, nothing but a long plunge to the bailey seventy or eighty feet below. All it would take was a shove, she told herself. He was standing right there, right there, smirking at her with those fat wormlips. You could do it, she told herself. You could. Do it right now. It wouldn't even matter if she went over with him. It wouldn't matter at all.

 

The Hound interrupts the moment by coming in between Joffrey and Sansa. Sansa is surprised by how delicate Sandor is as he dabs at the blood coming from her lip. Sansa thanks him and thinks of herself as a good girl who always remembers her courtesies.

[SeanC]

The final line about how she's always been "a good girl" is such a perfectly sad way to end Sansa's story in this book.

 

She accidentally forgets to address Joffrey as His Grace again and he comments on how stupid he and Cersei think she is. Sansa seems wounded when she hears that the Queen thinks she's stupid and thinks about how kind Cersei has always been.

This is one of those moments that would have worked better if we had actually seen any indication of why Sansa trusted Cersei again in King's Landing.  It just sort of happens offscreen.

 

All the same, this hits on what I think is an important part of Sansa's story going forward.  Sansa is going to spend a lot of the next two novels being told regularly by pretty much everybody that she's dumb; heck, even the Hound, who she comes to regard as an ally and who really does care about her, is always telling her that she's a fool and doesn't know anything.  And she really does take this to heart.  Which, in turn, is something Littlefinger, in turn, really exploits in his handling of her; he's constantly telling her that he thinks she's clever, and even the mildest compliment in that vein makes her feel incredibly grateful.  It serves a double-purpose, though -- it allows him to manipulate her, but Sansa also needs that sort of confidence in order to start to really learn to play the game.

[benteen]

Not only Joffrey's cruelty but his misogyny really shows in this chapter, even more then on his show.  Even his own mother isn't immune from his disdain for women.

 

It's a rough chapter for Sansa and it's not going to get any better for her for quite a while...and even then, you still have to wonder if she's just traded one cage for a nicer one.

[Avaleigh]

I know in AFFC Cersei makes a big deal about how she doesn't cry in front of anyone but Jaime but she certainly couldn't control the tears around Joffrey. I wonder who's more upset Tywin or Cersei over the blow of Jaime being captured. Jaime is Cersei's lover, twin, her muscle, her heart, the father of her kids. Jaime is Tywin's pride and joy and easily his favorite child even if Jaime has frustrated and disappointed him. 

 

Joffrey doesn't seem to care for Jaime at all. He's just annoyed that his side took a hit and from 'stupid' Sansa's brother of all people. 

 

I love the balls Sansa has in this chapter. She tells the guy who'd just slapped her around that he's no true knight. She plays the haughty lady with the Lannister servants, she tells Joffrey that Robb might give her his head and considering the fact that Robb has just successfully dealt with the best fighter in the Lannister family I can see that pricking at Joffrey more than it might have normally. Then we have Sansa seriously considering pushing Joffrey to his death, so much so that the Hound seems to know what's going through her head. 

 

I thought this was a great Sansa chapter. 

 

The way she thinks about Ned's legs jerking as his head is taken off and how she can see Slynt being complicit. We also get Sansa's thoughts here about how she wishes there were a hero around who would take off Slynt's head.

 

It is shocking that they'd have Septa Mordane killed. It doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they keep her with Sansa or even give her over to the Silent Sisters. She could have been useful to them.

 

Joffrey has all sorts of hateful moments but I wanted to reach through and throttle him myself for complaining about how Sansa is always crying. Joffrey is not allowed to have issues with Stark tears. ;p I'll admit though that I laughed when Joffrey asked Sansa when she thinks she'll be able to have children. This kid really is a budding little psychopath who cannot sympathize or empathize with other people. 

 

The Hound's gentle treatment of Sansa is very noticeable in this chapter. He's the one person who isn't being totally horrible right now. If that doesn't emphasize what a horrible place King's Landing is when the Hound, the guy who threatened to kill her among other things, is the best guardian angel that she can hope to have. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Avaleigh

[SeanC]

I imagine them killed Mordane for the same reason they killed everyone else in the household: in case Ned had told her something. Also, of course, the Lannisters tend to use murder as their default option.

[benteen]

That is true with the Lannisters.  Tywin Lannister's reaction usually drops a nuke in response to an insult.

[nodorothyparker]

I've never thought much about it, but I would assume Septa Mordane is killed for little other reason that she simply doesn't matter to the Lannisters enough for them not to when they're clearing out all of the Stark household.  Removing even the small possibility that she might have known something or that she might be any comfort to Sansa and leave her less isolated in enemy territory is just gravy for them.  That doesn't really explain what her head is doing up on a spike though.  It seems like that's an "honor" reserved for noteworthy foes.

 

This chapter removes any shred of remaining doubt that might have been out there that Joffers is an all around terrible awful and that Robert was right earlier in the book to be worried about what kind of heir he was leaving.  It always makes me wonder how much of that Tywin knew and if he'd even been around him enough to truly understand what a job controlling him enough to rule through him was going to be.  It's fun to speculate what he might have done differently in regards to sending Tyrion to be his acting hand or coming to Kings Landing earlier to do it himself and letting someone else command the military campaign if he had.

Edited September 10, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Holmbo]

Perhaps Joffrey was the one that ordered the Septa killed just cause he wanted to upset Sansa.

[Avaleigh]

Oh, how did that one woman not get the memo that it would be a bad idea to ask for the head of a convicted traitor? Obviously she didn't deserve to have that happen but yikes, way to not read a room. It's not like she didn't hear for herself a few examples of Joffrey's idea of justice. 

 

I'm curious to know who the two guys are who are expected to duel to the death and whether or not they looked at each other after Joffrey's ruling and decided they'd be able to work it out amongst themselves after all. Or maybe that's no longer an option for them. 

 

Does anyone remember if we find out if the singer chose his fingers or his tongue?

 

How the hell did Trant ever get a spot on the Kingsguard? He was appointed back in Robert's day so what the hell was Robert thinking? Surely there were other men who would have been better suited to the position.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Avaleigh

[nodorothyparker]

I would think between this and Ned's public beheading that most people who've heard anything at all about Joffrey would be quickly convinced you didn't want to go to the new king for anything resembling "justice."

 

The inclusion of both Trant and Boros Blount make it pretty clear that for all of Ned's reminiscing and Jaime's waxing poetically about the larger than life Kingsguards pasts that as an institution it's not nearly quite as exclusive or highly vaunted as they make it out to be.  As Tywin somewhere down the line points out, it's basically a glorified bodyguard position for which you have to give up all rank and inheritance and so may not appeal to someone not completely taken with notions of honor and glory. The Lannisters of course don't do anything to improve it any with some of their successive appointments.

Edited September 10, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Avaleigh]

The Lannisters did ultimately give Loras a spot. He's probably the best appointment to the Kingsguard since Jaime. Actually, now that I think about it, Balon Swann wasn't really a bad choice. I'd say that he was an improvement over the likes of Trant and Blount. The Hound isn't really a bad choice either but I don't see why he had to be made a member of the Kingsguard. Why not keep him as Joffrey's sworn shield if he isn't willing to become a knight?

 

The Blackfish seems like he would have been a good guy to have on the Kingsguard.  

[benteen]

I suspect Cersei never wrote to her father about Joffrey's shitty behavior because she never saw a problem with it.  Though it should have been pretty easy for Tywin to inquire about it elsewhere.  You would think Tywin would taken some interest in keeping an eye on his grandson considering Joffrey was the attainment of his ultimate goal.  A Lannister (Baratheon in name only) on the Iron Throne.

 

I suspect if Joffrey hadn't ordered Mordane's death, Cersei would have been more than willing to do that.  Her treatment of Jeyne proves how little she values people who are "beneath" her and as someone noted here earlier, Cersei has a clear disdain for all other women.

 

Yeah, I don't get how ass clowns like Trant and Blount got on the Kingsguard.  I think I read it was political appointments but surely they could have found some noble families with talented sons to serve.

 

I think in many ways The Blackfish would have been a great member of the Kingsguard.  I agree with another poster earlier (forgive me for not remember names) that while not one for marriage, the Blackish did place a great importance on family, whether it was serving his niece or coming back to fight for his brother and later his grandnephew.  Also, I think his role as Gate Commander was good for him as it kept him actively fighting the Mountain clans and not wasting away guarding a drunken king.  Though a man of honor, Blackfish likely would have broken his oath if he was ordered to move again his niece's husband.

[nksarmi]

You know, not so long ago I rewatched the episodes where Tywin was talking to Tommen over Geoffrey's dead body and I couldn't help but think, if I didn't know better I would say HE could have arranged Geoffrey's death.  He certainly does NOT seem upset by it.

[Avaleigh]

You know, not so long ago I rewatched the episodes where Tywin was talking to Tommen over Geoffrey's dead body and I couldn't help but think, if I didn't know better I would say HE could have arranged Geoffrey's death.  He certainly does NOT seem upset by it.

I have always wondered what "sharp lesson" Tywin had in mind for Joffrey. The fact that even Tyrion almost feels sorry for Joffrey when he hears Tywin say that speaks volumes. 

 

Tywin didn't seem broken up but he was pissed that such a public hit was taken and that's what makes me think he didn't have anything to do with it. That and I do believe that he isn't willing to become a kinslayer. I think that is a large part of why Tyrion managed to live in spite of everything. 

[nksarmi]

I have always wondered what "sharp lesson" Tywin had in mind for Joffrey. The fact that even Tyrion almost feels sorry for Joffrey when he hears Tywin say that speaks volumes. 

 

Tywin didn't seem broken up but he was pissed that such a public hit was taken and that's what makes me think he didn't have anything to do with it. That and I do believe that he isn't willing to become a kinslayer. I think that is a large part of why Tyrion managed to live in spite of everything. 

I have no doubt that Tywin could have become a kinslayer - I think it's the public hit part.  He did not like the black mark on his family, but in the end, I don't think he would have liked the public disgrace that Geoffrey was likely to become.  I really do wonder how long the boy would have survived if he didn't yield to Tywin and there is little real sign that Geoffrey could be controlled by anyone, including his grandfather.

[Avaleigh]

The main reason I have my doubts as to Tywin being capable of being a kinslayer is that he didn't have Tyrion exposed at birth or thrown into the sea as show Tywin suggests. He says that Tyrion was saved because he's a Lannister. He's the lowest of the Lannister but he's still part of the tribe and so Tywin won't quite go there. He's fine with Tyrion being killed in battle or falling down the drain of a sewer but he won't think of himself as being the one to blame for something like that happening. Tyrion losing a trial by combat, fine. Poisoning Tyrion and getting him out of his hair once and for all--he isn't willing to go there. 

 

If Joffrey really started screwing things up and Tywin was able to see that he wasn't able to get Joffrey to leave the room and have some dream wine, I guess I can see Joffrey eventually having an "accident" of some kind but even then I feel like it would be something like with Robert where Robert was still acting like a reckless dumbass so it's still partially his fault. 

[benteen]

It's interesting that evil men such as Tywin and Roose, not exactly people you would think are god(s)-fearing, don't want to dip their toes in the kinslayer pool.

[nodorothyparker]

You know, not so long ago I rewatched the episodes where Tywin was talking to Tommen over Geoffrey's dead body and I couldn't help but think, if I didn't know better I would say HE could have arranged Geoffrey's death.  He certainly does NOT seem upset by it.

 

My husband, who has never read this far into the books, had the same reaction.  He's spoilerphobic enough he usually doesn't want to know but point blank asked me if Tywin had it done because to him that scene all but confirmed it.  To him it made perfect sense that having now seen some of Joffers' handiwork up close and personal Tywin would have him taken out before he could reach majority age and start to do some real damage to the Lannister legacy and start over with the more malleable Tommen.

[benteen]

Although Tywin isn't above putting his son in a situation where he might get killed, ie Tyrion and the Mountain clans.  That might be Tywin's wiggle room to commit kinslaying.  Roose won't even do it to avenge his son.

[Avaleigh]

Daenerys IX

 

Dany is having nightmares and seems to hear Viserys repeatedly whispering his old threat of 'You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?' In the dream she hears Jorah talking about how Rhaegar was the last dragon and sees flashes of Viserys receiving his golden crown. She imagines herself chasing the red door from her childhood.

 

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

 

She sees her son with Drogo only he begins to burst into flame and is gone as quickly as he appeared. Dany cries for her child in the dream. She sees ghosts of past Targaryen kings that are calling out to her to go faster. She feels her skin tearing open and suddenly she's flying over the Dothraki Sea. She thinks she can smell home in the dream and when she finally makes it to the door and opens it, she sees her brother Rhaegar dressed in his armor and mounted on his horse. When she opens the visor of his helm she sees her own face inside.

 

She feels pain and when she finally wakes up it's to the taste of ashes. Jhiqui sees that Dany is awake and runs off to get help.

 

Dany is thinking about how she was flying in her dream and wonders why her body hurts so much. When Jhiqui and the others return, Dany is on the ground struggling to reach her dragon eggs. Dany sees her handmaids, Jorah, and Mirri Maz Duur. Jorah tells her that she needs to sleep so that she can become strong again. Mirri gives Dany something to drink and Dany soon falls into a dreamless sleep.

 

Dany doesn't know how much time has passed once she wakes up again. She asks for water and asks again for her dragon eggs. She falls back asleep and when she wakes she's holding the cream colored dragon's egg. She asks for water once more and seems finally ready to eat food. She orders them to prepare her a bath, and to bring her Mirri and Ser Jorah. She then asks after Khal Drogo and is told that he lives.

 

Dany can tell that something is wrong and when she asks Doreah to tell her what's happened, Doreah runs off to go and get Jorah. Jhiqui is ready to run off too but Dany catches her and asks after Drogo and her child. Dany wonders why it's taken her so long to ask about Rhaego.

 

Jhiqui looks down and tells Dany that her baby didn't live. Dany thinks to herself that somehow she already knew this. She thinks back to how her son burst into flames in her dream. She doesn't cry for her child and seems to think that all of her grief has been burned away. She's sad but she also feels like Rhaego is fading from her memory, almost as though he'd never existed.

 

Ser Jorah and Mirri are back in Dany's tent and Dany asks Jorah to touch one of the dragon's eggs. She asks him if he feels the heat coming from them but Jorah says they feel cold and hard as stone. He wonders if Dany is strong enough to be up and Dany tells him that she is indeed strong. She asks him how her child died. Jorah admits that the baby never lived and seems uncomfortable. Dany wants more details and asks to know what the women have had to say about the birth.

 

Jorah can't bring himself to say it so Mirri helpfully tells Dany how monstrous looking her baby was.

 

The knight was a powerful man, yet Dany understood in that moment that the maegi was stronger, and crueler, and infinitely more dangerous. "Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years."

 

Dany argues that her child was fine before she was brought into the tent and says her son was fighting to be born. Mirri explains that death was in the tent when Dany was brought inside of it and Jorah says that there were only shadows. He says that Mirri was dancing with shadows and Mirri replies that long shadows are cast from the grave.

 

Dany takes all of this to mean that Jorah killed her baby by bringing her into the tent. She thinks that Jorah knows this too because he looks disturbed and haunted. She comments that the shadows have touched Jorah as well.

 

Dany confronts Mirri about what happened and says that she thought the life that was being taken was the life of the horse. Mirri thinks that Dany is lying to herself if she believes that she didn't already know that the price would be more than the life of a horse. Dany wonders if she really did know and tells Mirri that the price has been paid with the lives of multiple people including her unborn child. She asks Mirri to show her what she bought with the life of her son.

 

Mirri agrees to take her to see Drogo and Jorah tries to discourage this saying that they'll have time enough later on. Dany doesn't want to wait so they exit the tent and Dany sees for the first time that almost everyone from the khalasar is gone. Out of the forty thousand people that had once followed Drogo only about a hundred remain. About twelve different khalasars have splintered off from the one that had been Drogo's and Khal Pono's is said to be the largest.

 

The people who have stayed behind with Dany are mostly old, weak, or sick. The small number of the strong are the ones who swore a vow to remain.

 

Dany asks after Eroeh, the small child she'd saved after the sacking of that town of the Lamb Men and Dany is informed that Eroeh was first raped by Mago, the guy who Dany was initially able to keep from raping the girl. Once Mago was done with her, he handed Eroeh over to his new khal, Khal Jhaqo. Once Jhaqo was done with the girl she was handed off to be gang raped by Jhaqo's other bloodriders. Once those guy's are done with her they have the girl's throat cut. Aggo tells Dany that this was Eroeh's fate. Dany says that Eroeh's fate was cruel but it'll be nothing compared to what she has in store for Mago. She says that Mago and Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh.

 

The others exchange looks and inform Dany that Jhaqo is now a khal with twenty thousand riders. Dany tells them that she's the blood of dragon and all that jazz and commands them to bring her to Drogo.

 

They bring her to Drogo and she sees him lying in the dirt with his body covered in bloodflies. Dany brushes them away and asks why Drogo has been left alone out in the sun. She sees that Drogo's eyes are open but can tell at once that he is blind. Drogo doesn't seem to hear her either and the wound on his breast is still hideous looking.

 

Jorah answers that Drogo seems to like being out in the sun best. Drogo can walk a bit if he's led and eat and drink if someone assists him but he's basically a complete shell of the man he was.

 

Dany turns to look at Mirri and tells her that her spell was costly indeed. Mirri tells Dany that she paid for Drogo's life and points out that Drogo lives. Dany says that this isn't the life that she meant and wants to know when Drogo will get back to the way he used to be.

 

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

 

Dany wants to be left alone with Mirri now and orders the others to go away. Once she and the maegi are left alone she confronts the woman and says that she knows Mirri knew the price Dany would have to pay. 

 

Mirri is unapologetic and says that it was wrong of Drogo's khalasar to burn her temple and anger the Great Shepherd. Dany doesn't believe for a moment that this was the work of some god. She says that Mirri cheated her and murdered her child while it was still in her womb. Mirri responds that now the Stallion that Mounts the World won't burn any other cities to the ground or trample anymore people into the dirt.

 

Dany sounds almost heartbroken now and reminds Mirri that she saved her life and spoke up for her. Mirri spits and says that Dany didn't exactly save her. She says that she was already raped multiple times by four different men. Her temple had been burned to the ground as well as her house. She saw the bodies of friends and even the body of a kid she'd just saved from an illness three months prior. She saw a bunch of crying children being taken into lives of slavery by Drogo's khalasar.

 

Mirri asks Dany again to tell her what exactly it is she thinks that she saved and Dany replies that she still saved Mirri's life. Mirri laughs in Dany's face at this and says that she can look to her shell of a Khal if she wants to see what life is worth once everything else has been taken.

 

Dany orders the men of her khas to take Mirri away and considers giving the order to have Mirri's head taken off but then wonders what good it will do.

 

Back in the tent, Dany bathes Drogo herself and thinks that she's going to be able to try to bring him back to her. She tells him to remember their first time together and remember the night they made Rhaego. She tries her best to arouse Drogo but she's unsuccessful and ends up covering his body with her tears instead.

 

When dawn approaches, Dany accepts that the Drogo she knew is never coming back so she goes into the tent to get a pillow, kisses her sun and stars one final time, and then smothers him to death.

[Holmbo]

This is where I should have wrote the stuff I wrote for the earlier Dany chapter. Drogo and Rhaego is dead. Most of the Khalasar has left. That is not what I was expecting when reading this for the first time.

I like the comparison Mirri makes between her and Drogo. How being alive is not worth anything. But on the same time I think Mirri could have chosen not to give up. She saw that Dany wanted to help and was in a position to do so. She could have healed Drogo and won her trust with Dany and then tried to help her change the ways of his khalasar.
What she did know changes nothing. The new Khalasars will still kill and enslave the lamb men. She killed the child who was prophecised to unite then into a singel nation when she could have stayed with Dany and possibly influenced him as he grew up.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Holmbo

[benteen]

I get why Mirri would want to kill Drogo and not be fond at the idea of working together with the Dothraki.  But you're right in saying that killing Drogo probably destroyed the best chance of makign "peace" with the Dothraki.

[nodorothyparker]

This is a series full of characters who aren't able to play the long game or see the bigger picture.  And of the few that try, most of them still can't see further than what benefits their house, their leadership, their desires.  Mirri gets to extract a little justice by taking out the ruler whose army destroyed everything she knew and loved and at least thinks beyond her immediate self in preventing his son from coming into the world to lead even bigger armies to loot and rape and kill.  Beyond that, I don't think she cares anymore.

 

Considering that she had to tell Dany in her previous chapter how to command and could see that Drogo and his riders were clearly humoring her in letting her have the captured women at all, I strongly doubt she would have put much faith in Dany and company to make things any better for her or people like her.

[Avaleigh]

Dany has one of the Others chasing her in her dream. That's something I didn't recall.

 

Viserys is still very much a presence for her and she still remembers how abusive he was. It's interesting too how large of a presence Rhaegar is for her considering that they never knew each other. I do wonder what Rhaegar would have made of his little sister. I guess she'd be a totally different person though if she ended up growing up in King's Landing with her family still in power. 

 

I have to agree that Mirri seemed short sighted and that she could have used her life to do good instead of using the time she has left to create more heartache and suffering. If Mirri hadn't killed Drogo then I can't help but feeling that two innocent people would still be alive. Not only do her efforts not change anything for people whose lives are ruined by the Dothraki but she's ensured a grisly death for herself.

 

I was surprised that Jorah didn't protest when Dany said that she wanted to be alone with Mirri. My what if scenario here is where Jorah would have gone if Dany had died? Another what if--if Dany and Drogo had both died and Rhaego had lived would Jorah have tried to protect the child or would he have left him to his fate? The fate where he says he thinks the men of the Dothraki would probably have the baby killed. 

[nodorothyparker]

One of the things I really appreciate about this series is the always running theme in the background of all the action of "why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones?" as Varys asks Ned.  Mirri is a great example of this.  Even when someone like Ned or Dany has what they believe to be perfectly good intentions, when they get it wrong it's those on the bottom who suffer the most.  We see in this chapter that the young girl Dany saved earlier was raped by half a dozen riders and then had her throat cut the moment Drogo and then Dany wasn't there to stop it.  It's not difficult to imagine that Mirri having been repeatedly raped herself and seen all of this simply wasn't willing to take what scraps of life she could get living under the whims of people like the Dothraki, even the "good" ones like Dany.

 

I'll be honest that I rarely find book Jorah all that likable or compelling.  He's a classic case of what I do care about the character I do because of what Iain Glen has done with him.  I can see book Jorah deciding to cut his losses and hightailing it out of there if Dany died, child or no child.  He's been pretty indifferent to the terrible things he's seen the Dothraki do and already tried to talk her into fleeing to one of the cities with him when it became apparent Drogo was dying.  It would take years for another Targaryen heir to reach adulthood and he could very well not want to live those years with a target on his back, even if he had any idea what to do with him after that.  Dany for all practical purposes is at least an adult.

Edited September 11, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Avaleigh]

I'll be honest that I rarely find book Jorah all that likable or compelling.  He's a classic case of what I do care about the character I do because of what Iain Glen has done with him.  I can see book Jorah deciding to cut his losses and hightailing it out of there if Dany died, child or no child.  He's been pretty indifferent to the terrible things he's seen the Dothraki do and already tried to talk her into fleeing to one of the cities with him when it became apparent Drogo was dying.  It would take years for another Targaryen heir to reach adulthood and he could very well not want to live those years with a target on his back, even if he had any idea what to do with him after that.  Dany for all practical purposes is at least an adult.

I wondered about what Jorah would do if Rhaego had lived but Dany had died. I can see him thinking that Rhaego could be valuable if he were to keep him alive and maybe he'd bring him back to Illyrio but I can't really see him caring for a baby and child for seven years or so until the kid is ready to start training and doing some of the duties of a squire. 

 

Still with Jorah being the one to tell Dany that Rhaego would probably be killed by the Dothraki without Drogo around to protect him makes me wonder if he'd have at least tried since most of the khalasar would have been gone and probably wouldn't have stood in his way. 

 

I wonder if the bloodriders would have felt at all bound to Drogo's child? That one guy certainly didn't when he tried to cut Dany's throat but I wonder how that works exactly if they're supposed to be blood of their blood. The guy who tried to cut Dany's throat--wasn't he sworn to Drogo when Drogo was born?

 

Sounds like the potential for a sitcom. A knight and three bloodriders raising a baby. Hijinks ensue. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Avaleigh

[nodorothyparker]

Jorah's pretty clear when he tells Dany that the Dothraki only respect strength and aren't going to see strength in a baby that won't be able to defend himself or lead for years.  They don't follow monarchy rules of heredity, which Dany also fails to understand.  And aren't they also supposed to kill themselves and follow him into the nightlands after they carry his widow back to Vaes Dothrak?  That's part of why they're pissed at Dany too.

 

I hadn't thought about Illyrio.  Jorah might have thought of trying to sell the kid to him if he believed he could get him there without too much difficulty, but then that becomes a question of logistics for a lone knight stuck far out in the grass sea from Pentos with a newborn.

[Avaleigh]

"Maegi, " Haggo growled. And old Cohollo - Cohollo who had bound his life to Drogo's on the day of his birth, Cohollo who had always been kind to her - Cohollo spat full in her face.

 

 

So here's a guy who bound his life to a baby before even knowing how the kid would turn out. It's odd to me that they wouldn't feel some sort of obligation to Drogo's kid. Not only does Cohollo not seem to feel any obligation (his Khal was still alive at the time) but he's actually trying to kill Drogo's kid. It's puzzling.