Jessie: Owl Be Seeing You

[kj4ever]

When Rick offered to take care of Pete, she yelled that he would just make it worse. He said when it's worse you'll be dead. She went in the house. And gave him the door. He went back and said he would make sure she and her children were taken care of. That's when she said if he would do that for others?

 

I don't remember any part when she said she was only willing to leave because a guy was interested in her, but not for her children's sake.

For her kid's sake she did not want things to get worse and wanted Rick to stay out of it.

His offer to make sure not just Jessie but the kids would be looked out for is what let her listen to him talk some more.

That and when he said that Sam asked for a gun.  Her whole demeanor changed when he said that.  It had to be a shock to her system.

[BrokenRemote]

Yes, it was the bit about Sam and the gun that seemed like a turning point to me. I think she's a good actress because I could see the horror of that information almost physically shake her.

I don't think at all that she said yes to Rick only because she thinks he likes her. It's so much more complex than that, and I think any feelings she thinks Rick has for her are what made her hesitate.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Yes, it was the bit about Sam and the gun that seemed like a turning point to me. I think she's a good actress because I could see the horror of that information almost physically shake her.

I don't think at all that she said yes to Rick only because she thinks he likes her. It's so much more complex than that, and I think any feelings she thinks Rick has for her are what made her hesitate.

 

Agreed.  And that was a big part of her argument out in the garage, when she kept asking him why he cared and wanted to do this for her.  She made sure to remind him, "I'm married!".  Despite the hardships of said marriage, it still means something to her morals.

 

I think that is also a part of why she fought Rick so hard on it, before he revealed Sam wanting a gun to protect her with.  She had an obligation she was stuck in, and (from her POV) Rick was trying to uncaringly and spitefully walk all over that, in his "attempt to help".

Edited March 26, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Spartan Girl]

Okay, good points, everyone.  It just seemed like Jessie was still on the fence about it until she asked Rick if he would do this for just anyone (i.e. if he was interested in her).  But I guess maybe that was just how I viewed it.

[kikismom]

She even said it was just an owl sculpture. She was, with that, with reminding him she was married, with getting mad and saying he would only make it worse, with storming in the house and shutting the door on him,... not really trying to entice him.

[gutbuster]

Agreed.  And that was a big part of her argument out in the garage, when she kept asking him why he cared and wanted to do this for her.  She made sure to remind him, "I'm married!".  Despite the hardships of said marriage, it still means something to her morals.

 

I think that is also a part of why she fought Rick so hard on it, before he revealed Sam wanting a gun to protect her with.  She had an obligation she was stuck in, and (from her POV) Rick was trying to uncaringly and spitefully walk all over that, in his "attempt to help".

 

My first thought after watching the episode was that Jessie was trying to put Rick off by reminding him she was married and that he would only make things worse. I still think that. But I was wondering, if she wasn't also reminding herself of these things. Because I think she is attracted to him and she's worried about it. "What are you doing?" she asks Rick, "I'm married!", "You'll only make things worse" (by getting involved). These are all all things she's been telling herself if she's feeling conflicted about being attracted to someone else as a married woman. 

 

I don't know if it's because of the abuse, or strong religious or personal beliefs, but she seems like she might be a 'stand by your man' type, just because we know she put up with Pete's crap prior to the apocalypse. Until now she seems to have been committed to her marriage, but since meeting Rick maybe she's been considering her options and seeing a way out and she's unsettled by that. This would make a little bit more sense why she would then ask that stupid "would you do this for anyone else" question. She wanted to confirm her feelings were mutual (though I personally think both their parts in the lead up and reactions to the kiss took care of that). Even though I still find that question and the fact that she asked it repellent. I wonder how long it's been since she decided she no longer wanted to try to help Pete and instead has been wanting to ask Pete to leave. Because we saw a pretty quick transition from essentially 'get out, I'm married. I can take care of myself' to needing/wanting Rick to protect her and 'Pete you need to leave'.

 

Now that Jessie's seen Rick's Crazy on display, I wonder if she'll pull back from him or still embrace him as her savior. I need to know more what she sees or thinks about him and I hope/look forward to when the show fills in the gaps a bit more. This past episode would have been a good opportunity to do that, perhaps if they had shown parts of it from her perspective. For example, if, after she shut Rick out with the slowest slamming of a door in someone's face as possible, they could have shown Jessie's reactions to the conversation cut in with what they did end up showing of Rick's pre-B&E into her house. Or even show a few seconds of her alone in the garage before Rick showed up. Maybe hinted at whatever it was that prompted her secret smoking session. Some interactions with her kids when no one else was around. Maybe show her watching Rick and Carol from her step with a look of 'whatever she was feeling at the moment' on her face. I don't know. I just feel like the show is missing opportunities to fill in some blanks. 

 

Because they went with the abuse storyline and have implied, through Deanna's lack of action, that people in ASZ are turning a blind eye to it in favor of having a drunk doctor on call, that's all the more reason why I wish we had seen Jessie interacting with anyone else in ASZ. If the others were being polite but distant or standoffish around her, it would have made us wonder why. It would also have made an impact to see others embracing her and being normally social and friendly, all while knowing she's being hurt and not lifting a finger. Do they all know? Some of them? Does Jessie know they know? Jessie works in the pantry, presumably with Olivia, does Olivia know? Are Olivia and Jessie friends? Does Jessie confide in her? Does Jessie have anyone to talk to or a close friend?

 

I would have loved to have seen even one scene with Olivia, Jessie, and Carol all in the pantry together. It has been weird that they haven't had Carol interacting directly with Jessie at all. Especially with the obvious parallels between the two. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

My first thought after watching the episode was that Jessie was trying to put Rick off by reminding him she was married and that he would only make things worse. I still think that. But I was wondering, if she wasn't also reminding herself of these things. Because I think she is attracted to him and she's worried about it. "What are you doing?" she asks Rick, "I'm married!", "You'll only make things worse" (by getting involved). These are all all things she's been telling herself if she's feeling conflicted about being attracted to someone else as a married woman. 

 

I don't know if it's because of the abuse, or strong religious or personal beliefs, but she seems like she might be a 'stand by your man' type, just because we know she put up with Pete's crap prior to the apocalypse. Until now she seems to have been committed to her marriage, but since meeting Rick maybe she's been considering her options and seeing a way out and she's unsettled by that. This would make a little bit more sense why she would then ask that stupid "would you do this for anyone else" question. She wanted to confirm her feelings were mutual (though I personally think both their parts in the lead up and reactions to the kiss took care of that). Even though I still find that question and the fact that she asked it repellent. I wonder how long it's been since she decided she no longer wanted to try to help Pete and instead has been wanting to ask Pete to leave. Because we saw a pretty quick transition from essentially 'get out, I'm married. I can take care of myself' to needing/wanting Rick to protect her and 'Pete you need to leave'.

 

Now that Jessie's seen Rick's Crazy on display, I wonder if she'll pull back from him or still embrace him as her savior. I need to know more what she sees or thinks about him and I hope/look forward to when the show fills in the gaps a bit more. This past episode would have been a good opportunity to do that, perhaps if they had shown parts of it from her perspective. For example, if, after she shut Rick out with the slowest slamming of a door in someone's face as possible, they could have shown Jessie's reactions to the conversation cut in with what they did end up showing of Rick's pre-B&E into her house. Or even show a few seconds of her alone in the garage before Rick showed up. Maybe hinted at whatever it was that prompted her secret smoking session. Some interactions with her kids when no one else was around. Maybe show her watching Rick and Carol from her step with a look of 'whatever she was feeling at the moment' on her face. I don't know. I just feel like the show is missing opportunities to fill in some blanks. 

 

Because they went with the abuse storyline and have implied, through Deanna's lack of action, that people in ASZ are turning a blind eye to it in favor of having a drunk doctor on call, that's all the more reason why I wish we had seen Jessie interacting with anyone else in ASZ. If the others were being polite but distant or standoffish around her, it would have made us wonder why. It would also have made an impact to see others embracing her and being normally social and friendly, all while knowing she's being hurt and not lifting a finger. Do they all know? Some of them? Does Jessie know they know? Jessie works in the pantry, presumably with Olivia, does Olivia know? Are Olivia and Jessie friends? Does Jessie confide in her? Does Jessie have anyone to talk to or a close friend?

 

I would have loved to have seen even one scene with Olivia, Jessie, and Carol all in the pantry together. It has been weird that they haven't had Carol interacting directly with Jessie at all. Especially with the obvious parallels between the two. 

 

Very good points.

 

And you're right.  We're getting shafted by not getting any true scenes from Jessie's viewpoint [or any other ASZ'rs, aside from Deanna (somewhat)].  And that's just bolsters my complaint about tptb waiting as long as they did to start the ASZ storyline this season.  There just was not enough time to develop much of anything.  There are so many things that are unknown and leave questions abounding as to what is actually going on and/or has been going on.   And that's not even beginning to touch anything about the 'Unfair Wolves' subplot.

 

I know its a money and logistics thing, but these episodes either need to be 1.5-2 hours long, or more eps per season.  Even if the whole ASZ story isn't over by the end of the finale, the group will most likely have been forced to move on early in S6 (my own personal guess).  So there will still be so many questions and intrigues left unanswered, due to time/other subplots restrictions.

[kikismom]

Let's see, they have

1. Aaron and Daryl storyline,
2. Carl and Enid,
3. Deanna and Reg and Rick and Sasha,
4. and Sasha and Michonne and Rosita,
5. and Carol and RIck and Sam,
6. and Abraham and the construction crew,
7. and Maggie and Deanna,
8. and Glenn and everybody

 

...I'm surprised they got as much in as they did. I really don't see how they would have time to also do:

• Jessie while she was smoking but before Rick got there,
• Jessie and Oblivia working in the pantry,
• Carol and Oblivia and Jessie in the pantry
• , Jessie on her porch in contrast with Rick and Carol on the porch..
• .Jessie and the other residents of Alexandria interacting
• etc.

 

And then if they did, the complaint would be about "even more scenes with Jessie taking time away from other people"

So it's another damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

I wonder how long it's been since she decided she no longer wanted to try to help Pete.

This is what I find repellant.

The idea that people who learn about an abused wife and mother wonder when she decided she no longer wanted to try and help her husband

 

Knowing what it is like to have a father (before my kind stepfather) who was like Pete, and hearing people make remarks to my mother about how she should be staying and helping the man (who treated her this way.) for 13 years...coincidentally about the duration that would be Pete and Jessie's marriage.

 

No, if he is beating her, she doesn't have shit obligation to be helpful to him.

 

If he doesn't give a shit about the effect he has on her life or his children's lives, no one should be needing explanations from her.

 

And there's no need for her to have a good enough timeline for other people because she realized that previous futile attempts to help him) are getting no results except her own misery and her childrens's.

 

If he gave a shit about them, he had ample opportunity as A GROWN MAN (who in this case still hangs on to his privileges as the doctor) to pull his own personal shit together.

He talks about being worried about losing things and hanging on to what he's got---obviously he's not worried enough to stop drinking which is driving a  wedge between them.

 

I did say she gave him the door, and she shut the door on him. I guess the director should have had her slam the door, and rapidly, to make it meaningful.

 

The quick transition from "get out, I can take care of myself" to needing protection and wanting Pete to leave is what I and my friends commonly see at a center where we volunteer. Not just that transition from abused wives, but from sexually abused girls, self-mutilating kids, drug kids. They say get out I can take care of myself for months, sometimes years. When they finally internalize that they have a real, sincere option to be safe, they break and change. But it takes a long time to trust that offer when you'll be in worse trouble if you trusted a fair-weather offer that drops out on you.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I just want to put this out there...

 

I find it amusing - in a moribund & kinda horrific way - that we can get almost a quarter to a third of a season based around an antagonist [brillip between mid-S4A and S4A finale], but we can't get even just a few short character-building scenes of the show's main character's LI.  

 

Also, they went with 'abusive' storyline.  That's fine.  But, where are the marks of said abuse?  None on her face or neck.  Also, the outfit she wore to Deanna's "welcome party" had her arms, shoulders, upper chest and back revealed.  Again, no marks of this abuse that's going on.  Not to trivialize abuse and hitting women, but he's only struck her in the abdominal/waist/butt/legs areas??  Really?  Did she trip and knock herself out when Sam found her unconscious that one time?

 

And I found it a bit "huh?" that when Rick says "he's hitting you;  he's hurting you.", that she didn't look at him in disbelief and say "how can you possibly know that?!".  The only reason she didn't, in my speculating mind, is that she knows most of the rest of ASZ knows about the abuse and that they all talk a lot.  Which, just makes everything that much worse.

Edited March 28, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[gutbuster]

I think it's important and beneficial to show events from Jessie's perspective or at least let us get to know her through her own eyes, as a character/person, particularly in a story that is very much about her. Especially if we're expected to not question or wonder about anything this character does- her motives, her feelings, thoughts she might be having, because she is being abused. I'm not talking about rambling monologues or fifteen minutes of Jessie looking wistfully at her reflection, or what have you.  A couple of extra seconds, a line or two here or there, possibly at the expense of a few seconds of (not instead of) watching Sasha go rogue clearing walkers for the fourth time, for example. 

 

Some of the suggestions I listed in my previous post were for this episode in regards to scenes they already had in the show. For instance when they cut from Carol and Rick on the porch to their view of Jessie's porch, they could have possibly shown Jessie's view from her porch. The pantry one was a few episodes ago and again was already included in the final episode. I don't think it would have been difficult to have included Jessie working in there, too. I never said they needed to put ALL of those things in this episode, nor did I say that they couldn't have had something else in another of the previous three episode. And who knows, they might start including things like that going forward. 

 

I wonder how long it's been since she decided she no longer wanted to try to help Pete.

 

 

This is what I find repellant.
The idea that people who learn about an abused wife and mother wonder when she decided she no longer wanted to try and help her husband

(The original post is not too much ahead of mine so I didn't quote the whole thing.) 

 

 

This is why I hate this storyline more than anything they've ever done, even though I'd like to make the best of it by trying to understand Jessie's motives and her feelings. There's no hostility here, but I'd like to clarify my point of view while realizing others may still not agree.

 

From my perspective, I wasn't wondering about an abused wife and mother, I was wondering about a pretend person on television, albeit one who is being portrayed as abused. My comment was about trying to understand a little bit more about a fictional character on a tv show about the zombie apocalypse, where we're only seeing snippets of her life through the eyes of every one except her. Even though domestic violence (and for that matter; torture, murder, rape, starvation, mental illness, alcoholism, etc) is obviously a very real thing that happens to people in real life, to my knowledge this is not a real story about a real person even though it may be very similar to what some real women have gone through. I do realize there can be a fine line. 

 

I have to take exception to the implication that my comment had anything to do with real women in real situations of domestic violence. I'm commenting only on what the show is showing us. The Jessie character said herself that she had tried to or was helping Pete, and he had gotten or had been getting better. I simply wondered about her choice, when she decided to stop helping. That's honestly it. I wasn't judging the character's life or choices, or real women's motivations or choices in similar situations. And you're right, she didn't, doesn't, and will never have an obligation to 'help' Pete. I may have missed it, but I don't think Jessie said she did, and I certainly didn't. 

 

In the garage scene she seemed adamant about keeping Rick out of the situation and taking care of herself. The storytellers then chose to show a few moments go by before she's accepting Rick into her life to protect her and asking Pete to leave. Her choice to stop helping Pete, whatever that means, has nothing to do with whatever Pete decides to do, does, tries to do, or is afraid of losing. Those are his choices. His decisions may affect hers, but only she can really choose for herself. At some point, be it between the garage and Rick entering her home, or five years ago, or ten years ago, Jessie made a choice to stop her version of 'helping' and to want her husband to leave. Also, at some point, she decided to not push Rick away. These are relatively big choices for the character to make in relation to the story, but because we don't get one second of the story from her point of view it falls kind of flat. For me, in my opinion.

 

I completely understand and respect that the issue of abuse in particular hits very close to home for a lot of people and that it will affect how they watch the show and view the characters involved. But I'm not sure what to do here, as it would be hard to talk about Jessie without talking about her storyline, the fact that she is abused, what she looks like, her motivations, her relationships to Rick and Pete, etc. I understand people want realistic characters and stories, but I think we also want to watch an 'entertaining' and hopefully interesting show and wonder and talk about it. The aspect of abuse in her storyline and how Jessie is behaving and being portrayed in particular is so difficult to comment on without one's opinions about character motivation and plot being interpreted as attacks on real people's pain and suffering and what real people go through. I'm sure not everyone is, but I would like to think that most of us are sensitive and decent enough to not intentionally belittle or judge what real people have to endure, or to disguise criticisms of actual abused women as comments about fictional characters. 

 

I did say she gave him the door, and she shut the door on him. I guess the director should have had her slam the door, and rapidly, to make it meaningful.

 

 

If you made a comment about the door I didn't intend my comment as a response to it. I just thought the slow motion door slam was funny because most scenes like that in other movies or tv shows have the door slammed quickly, whereas here we just see Rick standing there waiting for the door 'slam' to finish. I don't know, I didn't read any deep meaning into it, it just amused me in the moment. I honestly would never have thought that the speed of a door closing would somehow add meaning to the scene.

 

I just want to put this out there...

I find it criminally amusing that we can get almost a quarter to a third of a season based around an antagonist [brillip between mid-S4A and S4A finale], but we can't get even just a few short character-building scenes of the show's main character's LI.

 

This is basically it, I don't know how to be brief because I worry about clarity and being misunderstood a bit too much. I would rather have too much character development for new people who are going to be a part of the main characters' stories than too little or none. Whether Jessie is here for two episodes or five seasons, I just want her to be more developed. I realize that it may not be possible within the limits and parameters the showrunners have to work with, and that these things may take time. But they chose to dive right in with not a lot of build up whatsoever so I'm disappointed. Will I set the show on fire over it? No. :)

 

 

[kikismom]

gutbuster: thank you for the clarification. It just seems that whether it is Jessie, Michonne, Carol, whoever...it ends up being about whether the woman was wrong how she handled it, she didn't do enough, or went too far, or too soon or too late, etc.

[kikismom]

IAlso, they went with 'abusive' storyline.  That's fine.  But, where are the marks of said abuse?  None on her face or neck.  Also, the outfit she wore to Deanna's "welcome party" had her arms, shoulders, upper chest and back revealed.  Again, no marks of this abuse that's going on.  Not to trivialize abuse and hitting women, but he's only struck her in the abdominal/waist/butt/legs areas??  Really?  Did she trip and knock herself out when Sam found her unconscious that one time?

We did talk about the lack of marks back in the Try thread,  including hidden child abuse.

Just as many television cop shows have talked about how that happens.

Chronic abusers of spouses or children can often not leave marks visible unless the person is undressed. Not only do people around the victim not realize it is happening but if the woman confides to them they think she is making it up; prominent men in society are usually the ones most careful about this. The show may have a good reason for making it like this as opposed to showing her with a face all black and blue and hand marks around her neck.

 

A cop said to me once that if a person is threatened by a mugger and just hands over their money, people say well of course that was the smart thing to do.

But he said if a woman is abused or assaulted and she doesn't fight back because she doesn't want to die, juries think it couldn't have been that bad she is unmarked, or even worse, I don't believe her if it really happened against her will she would be messed up. He said abuse, beatings or sexual abuse of women and children is the only crime that other people expect the victim to risk their life to be believed.

 

As far as the Governor, we got all that exposition, plus an extra half season of it, because Kirkman adores the character he created of Brillip. He wrote an extra graphic novel about him. The Jessie character had even less POV or background in the comic.

Kirkman didn't write Noah, he didn't write Beth, they didn't know how to handle them. He didn't write Daryl, he gets more help because he's a fan favorite and a fangirl idol, but as the Slate article (Media) just said, he is a blank slate that has now interfered with other storylines to the point that they may have to get rid of him and risk alienating fans.

 

I agree that the writing could be a lot better about Jessie. But this show is plot-driven, not character-driven. I should say plot-point driven as they concentrate on getting from one big set piece to another and fumble in between. They like to leave a lot of unexplained because all they think about is making us hang on till the MSF or the season finale when all will  be explained and make a big spectacle. In the meantime, that makes characters (Jessie, Carol, Sam, Sasha, etc) ripe for mockery or impatience.

[Pete Martell]

As far as the Governor, we got all that exposition, plus an extra half season of it, because Kirkman adores the character he created of Brillip. He wrote an extra graphic novel about him. The Jessie character had even less POV or background in the comic.

Kirkman didn't write Noah, he didn't write Beth, they didn't know how to handle them. He didn't write Daryl, he gets more help because he's a fan favorite and a fangirl idol, but as the Slate article (Media) just said, he is a blank slate that has now interfered with other storylines to the point that they may have to get rid of him and risk alienating fans.

 

Kirkman's Carol had nothing in common with TV Carol, yet Carol has still had tons of material on the show, and blossomed as a character. Kirkman also didn't write for Tara, and although I realize she's just a supporting character, I think the show has done a decent job with her.

 

It's tough for me to lay too much of this on Kirkman's shoulders.

 

Even Gareth and Mary got more backstory (with as many or less episodes) than Jessie has had at this point. They wanted us to understand Gareth and Mary, and to contrast them with our "heroes."

 

They could have done this with Jessie - they could have easily contrasted her to Carol, a meek, terrified woman when we first met her, with Jessie being sunny and welcoming, yet, just like Carol, being beaten and terrorized by her husband. 

 

They could have still pushed "Jessick" or "Ressie" while having Carol and Jessie bond. 

 

I really feel like they deliberately had only Rick care about Jessie (Carol cares about the family as a whole but all of her scenes have been with Sam) because they wanted us to see this as part of the heroic love story and the dangerous but powerful love Rick feels for her. 

 

That's what I hate the most about this, is that domestic violence should never be used to "show" or "prove" a man's love. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kj4ever]

My sister was a victim of abuse from her hubby.  She is in no way a shrinking violet or meek or acted sad.  It happened for years until my nephew finally told me.  She came from a strong family that would help her in an instant, which we did once we knew, but still she was to afraid to tell because she knew he would try and kill her.  Which he did try, and thankfully was not successful.

 

Twenty-eight years later he still goes on rampages where he says he'll get her.  We never saw bruises, injuries.  She didn't cower and act like she was scared all the time.  The way Jessie has been portrayed is very real, and if you think you would know by how someone acted if they are being abuses you are blissfully ignorant.

[kikismom]

My aunt was also abused by her first husband, and she was always sunny and welcoming.

She had to be.

He had the house bugged. (I'm not kidding.)---

he had mics and recorded everything she said to anybody when he wasn't standing in the room with her.

She also tried various jobs and never could stay at them. He would sit in the parking lot and watch her through the windows with binoculars.

He was sick, but that doesn't mean he wasn't clever.

He tape-recorded phone calls too so he would know what she said on the phone after he left the house.

The slightest word of trouble, or even looking or acting in a way that would make people question if she was alright, would get horrible abuse---in places other people couldn't see.the marks.

 

There are some bad things that have happened to other female characters on the show which we viewers did not get to see or get much information about nor did other characters on the show.

...and yet what little is only told by the woman characters is taken as gospel truth without question.

No one asks for proof, no one asks for another side of the story.

 

With other women characters on this show, no other time a man has intervened to help that woman, take that woman's side, save that woman's life, has ever been interpreted as using violence to sell it as a heroic love story.

However, there have been more than one scene where a man intervened to save a woman and the same fans found it exciting and confirming of a man's love and a great romance.

But those times the woman wasn't Jessie Anderson. Okay.

[Pete Martell]

With other women characters on this show, no other time a man has intervened to help that woman, take that woman's side, save that woman's life, has ever been interpreted as using violence to sell it as a heroic love story.

 

How many of those moments had a woman whose scenes were almost solely only with that man, had a woman whose characterization was based almost entirely on how that man saw her, had a woman who asked that man if he would help anyone in her situation or just her, and had producers and actors talking about the "connection" and "feelings" between them, or from the man in question, as he saved her life? How many of them made it clear that one man and only one man in an entire town was going to save her, while no one else wanted to, aside from a woman who never actually interacted with her but instead urged said man to save her?

Edited March 28, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Pete Martell]

There are some bad things that have happened to other female characters on the show which we viewers did not get to see or get much information about nor did other characters on the show.

...and yet what little is only told by the woman characters is taken as gospel truth without question.

No one asks for proof, no one asks for another side of the story.

 

I think many viewers believed Jessie when she said she was being abused. There were more doubts in earlier weeks because we never heard anything or saw anything from her POV. Instead other characters would talk about her being abused as she would talk about owls and haircuts. I guess the idea was supposed to be that she was trying to hide what was happening to her, as many abuse victims do, but one or two scenes of her struggling privately before talking to Rick would have helped. Instead it was mostly just her popping up to be Rick's dream woman.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kj4ever]

Hi Ho Silver!

[Pete Martell]

Not to be rude, because I do see where people including myself have run it into the ground, but if we do that every time this discussion gets to a point where we don't want to hear any more about it, then we're going to use that macro 500 times a day, especially in character threads when the main point of the thread is discussing their specific storylines.

 

If the mods have had enough of this discussion (a discussion I only replied to because of posts that had been made earlier today and then replied to again because someone seemed to be replying to me - I assumed there was still a discussion about the story going on and otherwise I would have just waited until finale night), then I won't say anything else.

 

If you don't want to hear my opinion, I understand that, and if there's a block or ignore function here I totally understand if you want to use it on me, but I worry that other posters or lurkers who see the "hi ho silver" stuff every time a discussion has something we don't like hearing will be less likely to want to give their opinion.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Pete Martell

[kikismom]

 it was mostly just her popping up to be Rick's dream woman.

I have posted before that it was about circumstance---from the writers POV, and about avatars from many viewers POV.

 

I posted before that if Jessie Anderson had been on the road with CDB all this time shitting in the woods, eating dog, and digging in dead frog mud for water, Rick wouldn't find her attractive.

And he would have known more about her, had lots of time to be around her, her backstory and her private struggle would be known.

But Rick still wouldn't be turned on by her.

 

I also posted then that if Michonne or Maggie or Sasha appeared for the first time this season, clean and sweet smelling and with shampooed hair and a smile, RIck would be attracted.

If the storyline continued the way it is unfolding now, without the personal POV, the private struggle, just one of these women "popping up to be Rick's dream woman"....the show would run the same.

But there would not be the same antipathy toward the JA character.

 

If people are hating the storyline because it uses domestic violence to show or prove a man's love, last time they hated it because it was about adultery, before that because it was happening too fast and they were doing things that shouldn't happen for months or years; and before that because they saw her tongue hanging out and a halo around her head like the Virgin Mary, and before that---well before she appeared they hated it. They hated it before the back 8 started. They hated it when it was announced in the press that someone had been hired..

I cannot try to explain anymore; if some of the viewers have chosen hate the character and any storyline that involves the character and Rick Grimes, there's nothing else that will matter. I don't want a Carol should die Daryl should be with Beth vortex.

I just want the story to play out and enjoy it.

Let it roll.

[Pete Martell]

I posted before that if Jessie Anderson had been on the road with CDB all this time shitting in the woods, eating dog, and digging in dead frog mud for water, Rick wouldn't find her attractive.

And he would have known more about her, had lots of time to be around her, her backstory and her private struggle would be known.

But Rick still wouldn't be turned on by her.

 

I also posted then that if Michonne or Maggie or Sasha appeared for the first time this season, clean and sweet smelling and with shampooed hair and a smile, RIck would be attracted.

If the storyline continued the way it is unfolding now, without the personal POV, the private struggle, just one of these women "popping up to be Rick's dream woman"....the show would run the same.

But there would not be the same antipathy toward the JA character.

 

This is the gist of it for me - so much focus ends up on being why Rick wants her. Why Rick has "feelings" (per Gale Anne Hurd) for her.

 

I was prepared to dislike Jessie, and obviously many fans do dislike her, but somewhere around that awful dinner party exchange with the way Rick treated her, I started focusing on why the show was treating her the way they were. 

 

When a woman is being beaten, I don't care whether Rick is attracted to her. I don't care what she looks like, whether she eats dog food, whether she's been on the road. I don't care about Rick or his hardon.

 

I think there are a number of viewers who want to care about Jessie, and are waiting for the show to start to care about her. That's where I am. As it is now I don't feel like the show sees her as anything but Rick's property. I've been waiting for them to stop writing her as Rick's reawakening, not because she's attractive or clean, but because I'm extremely uneasy about an abused woman being put in this light, or in the light that Rick only cares about saving an abused woman if he's attracted to her. And I keep hoping at some point they finally will.

If people are hating the storyline because it uses domestic violence to show or prove a man's love, last time they hated it because it was about adultery, before that because it was happening too fast and they were doing things that shouldn't happen for months or years; and before that because they saw her tongue hanging out and a halo around her head like the Virgin Mary, and before that---well before she appeared they hated it. They hated it before the back 8 started. They hated it when it was announced in the press that someone had been hired..

I cannot try to explain anymore; if some of the viewers have chosen hate the character and any storyline that involves the character and Rick Grimes, there's nothing else that will matter. I don't want a Carol should die Daryl should be with Beth vortex.

I just want the story to play out and enjoy it.

Let it roll.

 

Where we disagree here is that I don't feel like there is this monolith of viewer opinion. The same viewers who hated it before the back 8 or hated it when casting was announced don't have to be the same viewers who hate it now. The same viewers who are uneasy with the idea that a woman being beaten and terrorized is only important if her savior finds true love may not have been upset at all. They may have had no idea about the upcoming casting or writing. They may have been looking forward to it. 

 

I can't really tell you what each individual fan did or did not feel.

 

All I can tell you is that I don't think past stories or past fan opinions justify the message of this story for me, which is that a woman's bruises are less important than a man's libido. 

 

Again that is just my opinion, and if someone wants to put the horse picture one more time or use the catchphrase one more time, be my guest. I realize some of us just will never agree on this.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Bass]

I'm going to take a chance and bare my soul on the internet. I am a victim of DA. He made me believe that I was worthless and that I was lucky he even wanted me. I took the physical and sexual abuse because I felt I deserved it, because he was better than me, and who else would want a piece of shit like me? But a family member of his noticed what was going on. He told me that I was worth more than everything in the world. He helped me to see that I was worth a better life. You know what? He helped me to find the strengh to walk away. Was my crazy SO not so accepting and tried to stop me? Yes, but I found my strength! The family member didn't "save" me or be my "white knight" he just helped me find the strength and self worth that I had in me.

This is the issue I had with this storyline in the comics. The way Jessie is potrayed as needy and Rick is the "white knight". RK obviously writes this arc as a fanboy fantasy of DA and not someone who really unferstands it, just like the rape arc with michonne, both rape and DA were written purely from a comic fanboy perspective. I'm grateful the rape of michonne did not make it on screen, but perplexed as to not only why this JA arc did make it to TV, but also remixed in a way that made it just as unpalatable as it was in the comics. Key points:

Jessie is not first introduced as DA vic, only as future LI. She is very comfortable with a shirtless stranger. (I would have felt uncomfortable y that a strange man I did not know answered the door half naked and would have kept my conversation short, especially since my abusive SO was living nearby)

Rick immediately took to Jessie BEFORE HE KNEW she was abused, because, again the writers wanted to make sure it's established she's LI. So at the party when Rick kisses her, she does not shie away. (In that scenario, realistically speaking, I would have expressed some discomfort, and looked around after the kiss, to make sure my SO did not see what transpired between me and this man that just moved into the neighborhood). Remember, Jessie is still being portrayed as LI not DAV.

Pete is initially viewed as just being an ass to Rick, not an abusive spouse. Later on, he shows signs of territorial to Rick, but then Rick also shows signs of territory to Pete regarding Jessie, so now its two guys swinging dicks about a women. Only after this do the writers FINALLY chose to showcase Pete as an abuser. (Because remember, its really about Rick and less about Jessie. My former abusivr SO would have been friendly with Rick, let him in the house, shoot the breeze over a beer, ask him a bunch of questions to find out what makes Rick tick, give him a pat on the back reasuring Rick that we had some problems but I was the love of his life. Then after closing the door, would promptly beat the sh*t out of me for accepting the intentions of a man I just met. But these TWD writers, do anyone of them even know anyone that was in an abusive relationship?

Later on, when the writers finally get to Jessie, again, her abuse is shown strictly through Rick's perspective, but with a heavy emphasis on Rick's attraction being the driving factor. (Remember, the writers first introduce her as LI, not DAV). Even when she asks Rick if he will do this for anyone else, he says no, because it's her role as LI that is what drives him, the abuse is just the writers way of giving an excuse as to why we should be okay that an abused woman who is in a relationship with a violent man be willing to not only avail herself to another man suffering from severe PTSD which makes him just as violent. And to make matters worse, that she would also have sexual relationship with said man after he kills her husband. If lets say, instead of the family member, I met a guy who fought overseas and suffered severe PTSd. This man took a shine to me even though I was married. He confronts my husband because of his desire for me. He finds out about the abuse and says he will help me leave. He and my husband get into an altercation, the PTSD and violent behavior kicks in and he kills him. I feel grateful and proceed to have a sexual relationship with a VIOLENT MAN WHO KILLED MY ABUSIVE HUSBAND. First of all, if this happened to me in real life, the counselor in our support group would have gotten me emergency mental health treatment if I even entertained the idea of having sex with a violent man that killed my abusive husband. Second, a part of me would be horrified that he was killed. Yes, I was physically and sexually abused, but I never wanted him dead, I just wanted him to stop. I would NEVER START HAVING SEX WITH THE MAN WITH PTSD WHO KILLED MY HUSBAND. Knowing that most of the reason was because he wanted to get with me would just make it seem sordid and suspect to those on the outside looking in.

Listen, the way this whole arc was remixed, just made Rick lookcrazy, look like a lech and the writers made Jessie more a damsel in distress spoils of war trope with the abuse angle thrown in in an attempt to give Rick and Jessie a credible reason for their behaviour. Well they failed. It was a poorly thought out, over the top comic book fantasy from a male perspective in the comic, and it is still a poorly thought out fantasy on the show. I'm appalled that so many are so accepting of this. But, it helps me to remember that TWD is just a zombie show plagued by bad, writing, bad editing, bad pacing, poor characterization and I can't expect these writers or the showrunner to do justice to deep societal subjects like rape, domestic abuse, characteization of POC, etc.

[Bass]

@pete martell when speaking with casual viewers who a) dont go on the internet in regards to the show b) who watch the show for pure entertainment and not for anything deeper,, c) after watching the show, go about their business, it does not consume their lives, this was their POV:

They think Rick is crazy and horny for Jessie. They think Jessie wants to be with Rick. Those that remember season 2 think this is Rick/Shane/Lori all over again, even with the abuse angle, with Pete as Rick with problem marriage and wife wanting to be with someone else, Rick as Shane cray cray over another mans wife and Jessie the wife two men fight over.

They view Jessie as a damsel and distress. They view her and the townspeople as helpless and clueless and are confused as to how they survived so long.

They are more concerned about daryl then jessie (yes Daryl is as popular among casuals as ever, LOL!)

They want to know what Glenn is thinking about everything. They are more concerned about Maggie and whats going on with her than this Jessie.

They want Michone to get her katana back and kick some ass. They enjoyed Michone clocking Rick and would not mind seeing her leading more until Rick stops acting crazy.

Some have forgotten who Morgan is, but when you jar their memory, they get more excited about him then about Jessie.

Now these are casual viewers from work and my club. Interesting, huh? What has your experience with casual viewers regarding the Pete/Jessie arc? There are some interesting pov cfrom them regarding Michone and Glenn too.

[kj4ever]

I'm going to take a chance and bare my soul on the internet. I am a victim of DA. He made me believe that I was worthless and that I was lucky he even wanted me. I took the physical and sexual abuse because I felt I deserved it, because he was better than me, and who else would want a piece of shit like me? But a family member of his noticed what was going on. He told me that I was worth more than everything in the world. He helped me to see that I was worth a better life. You know what? He helped me to find the strengh to walk away. Was my crazy SO not so accepting and tried to stop me? Yes, but I found my strength! The family member didn't "save" me or be my "white knight" he just helped me find the strength and self worth that I had in me.

This is the issue I had with this storyline in the comics. The way Jessie is potrayed as needy and Rick is the "white knight". RK obviously writes this arc as a fanboy fantasy of DA and not someone who really unferstands it, just like the rape arc with michonne, both rape and DA were written purely from a comic fanboy perspective. I'm grateful the rape of michonne did not make it on screen, but perplexed as to not only why this JA arc did make it to TV, but also remixed in a way that made it just as unpalatable as it was in the comics. Key points:

Jessie is not first introduced as DA vic, only as future LI. She is very comfortable with a shirtless stranger. (I would have felt uncomfortable y that a strange man I did not know answered the door half naked and would have kept my conversation short, especially since my abusive SO was living nearby)

Rick immediately took to Jessie BEFORE HE KNEW she was abused, because, again the writers wanted to make sure it's established she's LI. So at the party when Rick kisses her, she does not shie away. (In that scenario, realistically speaking, I would have expressed some discomfort, and looked around after the kiss, to make sure my SO did not see what transpired between me and this man that just moved into the neighborhood). Remember, Jessie is still being portrayed as LI not DAV.

Pete is initially viewed as just being an ass to Rick, not an abusive spouse. Later on, he shows signs of territorial to Rick, but then Rick also shows signs of territory to Pete regarding Jessie, so now its two guys swinging dicks about a women. Only after this do the writers FINALLY chose to showcase Pete as an abuser. (Because remember, its really about Rick and less about Jessie. My former abusivr SO would have been friendly with Rick, let him in the house, shoot the breeze over a beer, ask him a bunch of questions to find out what makes Rick tick, give him a pat on the back reasuring Rick that we had some problems but I was the love of his life. Then after closing the door, would promptly beat the sh*t out of me for accepting the intentions of a man I just met. But these TWD writers, do anyone of them even know anyone that was in an abusive relationship?

Later on, when the writers finally get to Jessie, again, her abuse is shown strictly through Rick's perspective, but with a heavy emphasis on Rick's attraction being the driving factor. (Remember, the writers first introduce her as LI, not DAV). Even when she asks Rick if he will do this for anyone else, he says no, because it's her role as LI that is what drives him, the abuse is just the writers way of giving an excuse as to why we should be okay that an abused woman who is in a relationship with a violent man be willing to not only avail herself to another man suffering from severe PTSD which makes him just as violent. And to make matters worse, that she would also have sexual relationship with said man after he kills her husband. If lets say, instead of the family member, I met a guy who fought overseas and suffered severe PTSd. This man took a shine to me even though I was married. He confronts my husband because of his desire for me. He finds out about the abuse and says he will help me leave. He and my husband get into an altercation, the PTSD and violent behavior kicks in and he kills him. I feel grateful and proceed to have a sexual relationship with a VIOLENT MAN WHO KILLED MY ABUSIVE HUSBAND. First of all, if this happened to me in real life, the counselor in our support group would have gotten me emergency mental health treatment if I even entertained the idea of having sex with a violent man that killed my abusive husband. Second, a part of me would be horrified that he was killed. Yes, I was physically and sexually abused, but I never wanted him dead, I just wanted him to stop. I would NEVER START HAVING SEX WITH THE MAN WITH PTSD WHO KILLED MY HUSBAND. Knowing that most of the reason was because he wanted to get with me would just make it seem sordid and suspect to those on the outside looking in.

Listen, the way this whole arc was remixed, just made Rick lookcrazy, look like a lech and the writers made Jessie more a damsel in distress spoils of war trope with the abuse angle thrown in in an attempt to give Rick and Jessie a credible reason for their behaviour. Well they failed. It was a poorly thought out, over the top comic book fantasy from a male perspective in the comic, and it is still a poorly thought out fantasy on the show. I'm appalled that so many are so accepting of this. But, it helps me to remember that TWD is just a zombie show plagued by bad, writing, bad editing, bad pacing, poor characterization and I can't expect these writers or the showrunner to do justice to deep societal subjects like rape, domestic abuse, characteization of POC, etc.

Thank you for sharing your story - it's very brave.

Rick hasn't killed Pete or had a sexually relationship with Jessie though.....all we've seen is that Rick said he'd help her and her kids? We saw Rick fighting with himself NOT to kill Pete. I didn't see Jessie as some damsel in distress either.  She refused his help and didn't snap out of that until he said her son asked for a gun.  In fact, that sounds a lot like your family member.  He may not have helped her find her self worth, but he helped her find a good enough reason to want help.

 

Also I don't think she was telegraphed as a love interest until the cheek kiss maybe.  From what I saw on the show, not the media, not the comics, and not from spoilers was a nice lady helping the new guy out, and said new guy appreciating the effort.

Edited March 29, 2015 by kj4ever

[HalcyonDays]

The masses have spoken and most of you like Jessie: Owl Be Seeing You as the thread title, so here you go!

[kikismom]

Thank you for sharing your story - it's very brave.

Rick hasn't killed Pete or had a sexually relationship with Jessie though.....all we've seen is that Rick said he'd help her and her kids? We saw Rick fighting with himself NOT to kill Pete. I didn't see Jessie as some damsel in distress either.  She refused his help and didn't snap out of that until he said her son asked for a gun.  In fact, that sounds a lot like your family member.  He may not have helped her find her self worth, but he helped her find a good enough reason to want help.

 

Also I don't think she was telegraphed as a love interest until the cheek kiss maybe.  From what I saw on the show, not the media, not the comics, and not from spoilers was a nice lady helping the new guy out, and said new guy appreciating the effort.

Agree; this was a very brave post and I thank Bass for giving the real life first person account. It could not have been easy. Good to know that someone saw and gave support.

 

 

As far as kj4ever's post, I would add that when Jessie said it would just make things worse----

( which is like being afraid that he would buddy up with a man who spoke with him about the relationship and then come home and beat the woman)----

Rick said that when it gets worse you'll be dead. (and that you have to fight for yourself).

 

To drive home to someone who can't get over the psychological play-acting necessary to keep going, by saying you'll be dead was not romantic.

It did not make me think of a white knight scooping up a fair lady and riding off to the castle.

 

He has conflicts about his feelings, his knowledge that what he would like should not happen, about being a cop again, but also about raising his children in a Disneyfied community at the end of the world.

 

A world where all the happy horseshit is disguising some very cold people, not just Pete but the ease with which they all turn their back on each other's suffering.

 

Deanna, the construction crew, the supply run ASZhats...cold and cowardly. People sometimes forget that Rick is not just worried about how Carl is turning out.

He is a man who has an innocent, defenseless daughter.

A daughter that Deanna said will grow up to see what ASZ will become...and Rick is seeing big hints of what the place is becoming..

 

JMO.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So Jessie finally got a chance to use her words in a spot where Rick wasn't pretty much right next to her - that was a nice change of pace.

 

Makes one wonder if that is the first time that Jessie has ever verbally 'defied' Deanna, or even questioned her on something.  Deanna's reaction seemed to suggest this was either a brand new thing or very rare one.

 

 

I must say that AB is a very good actor, too.  You can really get a sense of her (character's) current mental state by watching her facial and body reactions to people/things.

[Yolapukka]

I look forward to Morgan putting Jessie's metal working skills to good use in constructing traps and defences for the community. He ought to be able to see past the notion that who we were still matters and get her to move beyond making eye-pleasing lawn art projects.

[kikismom]

I must say that AB is a very good actor, too.  You can really get a sense of her (character's) current mental state by watching her facial and body reactions to people/things.

Yes, Andrew Lincoln said the same thing, he was also impressed by the way she "dovetailed" right into the group off camera and so at least they all seem to like her.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Yes, Andrew Lincoln said the same thing, he was also impressed by the way she "dovetailed" right into the group off camera and so at least they all seem to like her.

 

And I've been impressed by Rick's serious, yet restrained, interest in her "dovetail".   ;-)

[Nashville]

And I've been impressed by Rick's serious, yet restrained, interest in her "dovetail".   ;-)

I don't think "dovetail" is the exact correct term - but you're cloooose....

[kikismom]

I don't think "dovetail" is the exact correct term - but you're cloooose....

If you think about carpentry, it kinda works.

[kj4ever]

So Jessie finally got a chance to use her words in a spot where Rick wasn't pretty much right next to her - that was a nice change of pace.

 

Makes one wonder if that is the first time that Jessie has ever verbally 'defied' Deanna, or even questioned her on something.  Deanna's reaction seemed to suggest this was either a brand new thing or very rare one.

 

 

I must say that AB is a very good actor, too.  You can really get a sense of her (character's) current mental state by watching her facial and body reactions to people/things.

I'm thinking no one ever questioned Deanna because she held all the power.  Hell this woman knew Jessie was being beat and just "hoped it'd get better."  AB is an awesome actress - she was so good in AHS.  They've really downplayed her looks on the show, but she did look better during the trial.  Thank GOD though, because I can imagine how many heads would have exploded when she came on the scene if she was white, blonde AND hot.  That might have pushed some over the edge of crazy town.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm thinking no one ever questioned Deanna because she held all the power.  Hell this woman knew Jessie was being beat and just "hoped it'd get better."  AB is an awesome actress - she was so good in AHS.  They've really downplayed her looks on the show, but she did look better during the trial.  Thank GOD though, because I can imagine how many heads would have exploded when she came on the scene if she was white, blonde AND hot.  That might have pushed some over the edge of crazy town.

 

They can play down her looks all they want, AB is and will always be "hot" to me.  jmo

I don't think "dovetail" is the exact correct term - but you're cloooose....

 

Its all in the (attempted) word play.  Trying to hide the dangerously high levels of perversity isn't always as easy as it looks.  lol

[kikismom]

deleted a link already posted in another thread.

Edited April 1, 2015 by kikismom

[Nashville]

If you think about carpentry, it kinda works.

 

I'm more of a mortise-and-tenon man myself.

 

I'm thinking no one ever questioned Deanna because she held all the power.  Hell this woman knew Jessie was being beat and just "hoped it'd get better." 

 

I'd been thinking that's probably WHY Jessie now feels a certain degree of freedom to question/challenge Deanna's authority. 

Deanna's earlier "don't rock the boat" policy regarding Peter worked great for everybody in the ASZ - except Jessie and her kids. 

For them, it outright sucked.

[kj4ever]

I'm more of a mortise-and-tenon man myself.

 

 

I'd been thinking that's probably WHY Jessie now feels a certain degree of freedom to question/challenge Deanna's authority. 

Deanna's earlier "don't rock the boat" policy regarding Peter worked great for everybody in the ASZ - except Jessie and her kids. 

For them, it outright sucked.

I think it was such a vital scene to help put cracks in Deanna's veneer.  While it isn't outwardly apparent, I think Deanna digs her power, and what a shake up to have the town's resident abused woman stand up to her.  Bravo Jessie, bravo.

 

There are just so many places this can go next season.  How are Jessie and her kids going to take this?  We know Sam was terrified of his Father, but what about Ron?  We haven't seen his reaction.  Maybe he was more "used to it" being part of their normal since he was probably around when it happened before the ZA and Pete got help.  Abuser or not he's still their Father...

 

Jessie is stronger then people give her credit.  She did either leave him/give him an ultimatum before, but then had the luck? to find Alexandria and be in a place where she couldn't be helped.

Edited April 2, 2015 by kj4ever

[kikismom]

People talk about Jessie being a device and not a character. But last night I was watching the episode "Tell It To The Frogs" and at the fire Carol is off with Ed and Sophia by themselves and when Shane asks how ya doin she is all "Fine. We're just fine".

Little robot saying what she is supposed to.

She was also at the ironing board with her talk about what a good job her old Maytag did with the laundry. She seemed like a weak little mouse but we know better now don't we?

[Nashville]

People talk about Jessie being a device and not a character. But last night I was watching the episode "Tell It To The Frogs" and at the fire Carol is off with Ed and Sophia by themselves and when Shane asks how ya doin she is all "Fine. We're just fine".

Little robot saying what she is supposed to.

She was also at the ironing board with her talk about what a good job her old Maytag did with the laundry. She seemed like a weak little mouse but we know better now don't we?

I think you mean SHE knows better now. ;)

I was watching the same episode - ran across it on the schedule, and clicked in just in time to see the Grimes family reunion. And one thing hit me like a 2x4 between the eyes; back then, AL could correctly enunciate the name "Carl". WTF happened since for Rick to continually confuse his first-born son with a reef structure?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think you mean SHE knows better now. ;)

I was watching the same episode - ran across it on the schedule, and clicked in just in time to see the Grimes family reunion. And one thing hit me like a 2x4 between the eyes; back then, AL could correctly enunciate the name "Carl". WTF happened since for Rick to continually confuse his first-born son with a reef structure?

 

He still has bits & pieces of neck flesh and carotid artery stuck in his teeth.  Messes with his ability to correctly enunciate Carl's name and other thangs & stuff.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, it seems that Jessie is arguably the most hated character (I'd say her and FPP are neck & neck) currently either starring or semi-starring on TWD, at least when reading comments in episode threads.

 

Honestly puzzled in that I can't help but wonder, is it because people really don't like her... or is it because she's getting in the way of the 'people's ship', ie Richonne??

[mandolin]

I don't hate her, but I do value characters that have been out in the ZA surviving more. Even though it's not her fault, I still want time spent on those characters. She is bland to me. I also don't think the actress is doing the best job in this role, and I thought she was better on American Horror Story. That bugs me.

 

I'm "afraid" she's going to cause Rick to make poor choices, and he's my favorite, so there's that.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Say no to a haircut from her?  Brings out shear violence!

[CletusMusashi]

I don' think she was ever as hated as FPP. I don't even think Season 2 Carl was as hated as FPP... although he came close.

Jesse was taking over the protagonist's storyline, when we'd much rather be seeing what was going on with the other characters, that's all. 

Jesse, this season, has not bugged me so much.

The scissors did surprise me, but it was an "Oh, of course! How the hell did I not expect that?" kind of surprise. 

What I was actually expecting, in the scene, was for her to get beaten to death with her own owl sculpture. Kind of like the Cat Lady in "A Clockwork Orange," except more... owly. Is it weird that I just automatically assume something like that?

[kj4ever]

So, it seems that Jessie is arguably the most hated character (I'd say her and FPP are neck & neck) currently either starring or semi-starring on TWD, at least when reading comments in episode threads.

 

Honestly puzzled in that I can't help but wonder, is it because people really don't like her... or is it because she's getting in the way of the 'people's ship', ie Richonne??

I would say mostly because of Richonne, but also her character wasn't fleshed out well.  I'm digging her character now, although I wish she would have smacked the crap out of Ron in the kitchen....

[Nashville]

I'm digging her character now, although I wish she would have smacked the crap out of Ron in the kitchen....

 

Well, someone has to pick up the slack now that Pete's gone....

[kj4ever]

Well, someone has to pick up the slack now that Pete's gone....

I'm almost afraid that you are right on that one and he might take after Daddy Dearest.  Kids learn by example.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

After her last scene in JSS, I think Jessie had a great sales pitch for a barber shop in ASZ, if she'd ever opened one... "The Best Trim in Alexandria; they're simply to die for!".

[Ocean Chick]

The Best Trim in Alexandria

 

 

Oh dear.  Sounds like she's opening up a brothel instead of a barber shop....

[Nashville]

 

After her last scene in JSS, I think Jessie had a great sales pitch for a barber shop in ASZ, if she'd ever opened one... "The Best Trim in Alexandria; they're simply to die for!".

Oh dear.  Sounds like she's opening up a brothel instead of a barber shop....

 

Actually, that was my suggestion for the tagline on this subforum.  :>