S02.E19: Justify The Means

[LeGrandElephant]

How old is Callie? In like 1.5 or 2 years, she'll only be visiting Jude on college breaks.

Brandon and Mike only visit each other, and they're still family. It's not like back and forth visits between different parts of a family is unheard of. Either Callie visits the fosters or she visits Robert. The Fosters seemed annoyed at even the idea of her visiting Robert once a week or every other weekend.

I'm trying to remember what prompted Robert to fight for custody at all. Wasn't it something like Callie and/or the Fosters saying she didn't want to see him at all anymore? And I'm not sure he has a legal option to sue for partially being her father.

The real problem is the show has set up a totally convoluted implausible situation where no one is really in the wrong and they're all nice people so there's no one to really root against. It reminds me of Whatever Happened to Janie. There just isn't any one clear "right" resolution. (The bad guy here is the state of California for somehow missing his existence. Maybe Callie can sue them for pain and suffering. Also Donald should have said something about Robert years ago, whenever he stopped writing to Callie and gave up on being her dad. He knew he wasn't Callie's birth father.)

[gesundheit]

Brandon and Mike only visit each other, and they're still family. It's not like back and forth visits between different parts of a family is unheard of. Either Callie visits the fosters or she visits Robert.

If they shared custody, she could stay with Robert part of the time and the Fosters part of the time. Plenty of kids live part-time in one house and part-time in another. If Robert gets full custody, Callie officially has no legal familial ties with anyone in the Adams-Foster family except for Jude. Living full-time with Robert means having her life 100% uprooted again and living apart from her brother for the first time in their lives. That's not the healthiest arrangement considering how much upheaval they've both been through. Living at the Quinns part-time would be a much smaller adjustment and would not be as large a disruption to the closest thing to stability she's ever had. Win-win. 

 

These aren't just people she likes and enjoys spending time with. This is who she considers her family and who she wants as her family. An adoption sets up a permanent relationship that will last the rest of their lives. Robert being willing to share custody means all parents can be involved in major decisions about her life and have a permanent legal and familial connection to her, and Callie and Jude stay in the same home most of the time and the same family forever.

 

Robert changed his mind about signing away his rights when Callie acknowledged him as her father at the benefit. He was so moved that he decided he couldn't let her go. Before that, both Callie and the moms were completely fine with her spending time with him and getting to know him. That's when it became adversarial for all involved.

 

Robert has every right to initiate a partial custody agreement and to allow the adoption (and have the adoption be contingent on the partial custody).

 

I'm just hoping it eventually happens and am annoyed that this is being treated as either/or. And I still can't help but think it has partly to do with keeping the path open for a future Brandon/Callie reunion and... eek.

[Perfect Xero]

 

It still takes her away from the Fosters. Being able to visit with them and her brother is hardly the same as her keeping a stable family unit with them, which is what she wants and is likely healthiest for her emotional development. He has at no point indicated that he's willing to share custody.

 

I actually do know people with more than two legal parents (i.e., combo of adoptive and bio parents). It's definitely possible for Stef and Lena to adopt Callie and for them to share custody with Robert. He only wants full custody. I don't think he's a bad guy and I can certainly see how this would be incredibly hard for him, but he's not considering a compromise. "You can hang out with your bro and his parents whenever!" is not a compromise. I imagine eventually we'll get one, it's just annoying to me that nobody has proposed a reasonable one yet. Why Robert cannot see why actually sharing a home with her brother is incredibly important is beyond me.

 

I'm not aware of any legal way for the three of them to share custody, if there's any information about such arrangements, I'd love to know about it. They could work out an informal agreement, like in the case of an open adoption, but whoever the legal parent was would hold 100% of the power and would be allowed to cut the 3rd party out of Callie's life at their whim.

 

As a viewer of the show, I wouldn't want to share custody with Stef at all if it could be avoided (Lena would be fine, except that, you know, she'd married to Stef).

 

She's a police officer who breaks the law when it suits her. She runs off to give anyone who she's displeased with the death glare (including the woman who kept Callie out of jail and is largely responsible for Callie being placed back with the Fosters). We've seen Stef cut Mike out of decisions with regards to Brandon, we've even seen her cut Lena out of decisions when she didn't agree with her. Does anyone actually believe that she'd give Robert's views on how Callie should be raised any consideration at all if they conflicted with her own when she barely even extends that respect to her own wife and ex-husband/police partner? 

 

Knowing Stef from a viewer's eye view, I can't imagine that she'd restrain herself from running roughshod over Robert's role as her Father unless Robert had 100% of the legal parental power.

 

As to the big picture, I think that we need to remember that Robert's relationship with Stef and Lena began with a form from a lawyer asking him to give away his daughter without ever setting eyes on her. So Robert should recognize that it's important for her to share a home with Jude full time, but Stef and Lena shouldn't have realized that it was important for Father and Daughter to even meet face to face? All they cared about was moving full steam ahead on their adoption, and it would sure be nice if this girl's father didn't throw a wrench in to that.

[wagthedog]

I'm not a Stef fan and I expect more than law breaking, especially from a police officer. But I can also understand where she's coming from. What wouldn't a parent do to protect their kid? From Stef's perspective, I imagine Robert feels like a pretty big threat. He's got a lot of money and is used to getting what he wants, he has basically ignored Callie's wishes (although I understand where he's coming from on that) and the judge favors bio parents (as, I think, most judges do). I can see where Stef would rationalize the end justifying the means. She and Lena took Jude and Callie in. A deep bond has grown, not just with the parents, but with the siblings. They're a family now. The idea that the court system could take that away is terrifying.

 

As far as Connor goes, I find his behavior pretty normal/understandable too. He's attracted to Jude, but at 13, feelings of attraction can be confusing. And while society has come a long way, Connor still gets plenty of signals that dating girls is "normal" and dating boys isn't. Just because he's attracted to Jude doesn't mean he has to be certain. It sucks for Jude, but that too is the nature of dating. Sometimes you're more sure than the person you're interested in. Sometimes the person gets more sure with time. Sometimes they don't. Also, Jude gets a lot more positive re-inforcement at home. Jude knows he's safe. One of the high points of the series was Lena's talk with Jude about his nail polish. Connor never got that talk from his dad.

 

As much as I enjoy their puppy love, I think the fits and starts of the Jude/Connor relationship is more true to life.

 

ETA:

How old is Callie? In like 1.5 or 2 years, she'll only be visiting Jude on college breaks.

True. But I think this is an emotional issue that goes way beyond when/how she sees Jude. It's about having roots and stability, two things Callie has been denied most of her life. She wants to belong to the Foster family.

 

The real problem is the show has set up a totally convoluted implausible situation where no one is really in the wrong and they're all nice people so there's no one to really root against.

I don't find it especially convoluted. Unusual, but not unbelievable. I think it's great that no one is really in the wrong. Real life is full of gray areas and so are people. No one is all good or all bad. To me, it's pretty boring when I show telegraphs the outcome by making one side the obvious right side and one side the obvious wrong side. In this case, I can see where both sides are coming from and I'm rotting for Callie to get her happy ending, whatever that looks like for her.

Edited March 12, 2015 by wagthedog

[peachmangosteen]

I think it's great that no one is really in the wrong.

 

My problem is I can't tell if the show wants us to see it that way. Honestly I can't tell what the writers are going for in any of the stories. It's all very confusing and convoluted to me.

[wagthedog]

I'm not sure what the writers intentions are, but I guess I don't really care either. I think they probably want the audience to be into Callie/Brandon but I prefer Callie/Wyatt or Callie on her own. So, even when the writers make their intentions fairly obvious, it doesn't mean the audience is going to see it that way.

 

That nice thing about this sort of story, where there's ambiguity, is that it opens up an interesting discussion. When no one is clearly right or wrong, how should a decision like this get made?

 

Personally, I feel like Callie is old enough to make her own choice and that should be what the judge uses as his primary tool for making a decision.

 

But I totally get why Robert wants Callie. What an extraordinary situation, finding out you have a daughter you've never known. And I imagine Robert believes his money plays a role in making him the right choice. He can give Callie not just a lot of stuff, but a lot of access.

 

And I totally get why Lena and Stef want Callie. They've been through thick and thin with Callie. They've loved her unconditionally. They're as invested as it gets.

 

And I think that regardless of where Callie ends up living, none of the relationships has to end. Part of compromise is everyone giving up something. They can all get a happy ending if they're willing to compromise.

Edited March 15, 2015 by wagthedog

[Eeksquire]

 

But, nah, It's not enough that Jude has relationship drama with a guy who has a girlfriend, Jude and his friend sneak in to her house in the middle of the night to steal booze, it's not enough that Dad wakes up and catches them, Dad wakes up and comes running downstairs with a gun and fires at the first sound he hears.

Can I just say that this is one TV trope that I find completely infuriating? Hmm, it's the middle of the night and I hear something downstairs.  IRL, wouldn't the FIRST THING you'd do would be to TURN ON THE LIGHTS?! Nope, apparently not, we're just going to shoot blindly (which: even if you felt really threatened, again, without being able to SEE anything, WHAT ARE YOU AIMING AT?!)  All the crime shows do this too, where the investigators are going in to the crime scene with flashlights and it's like: You'd probably be able to get a lot more evidence if you could SEE IT.  

 

So much of this episode was a total mess.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that anything involving the legal system on television is just wildly unrealistic, but still, it bugs.  And I hate what they're doing to Stef's character.

[knaxx]

I'm rooting for Callie to get her happy ending, whatever that looks like for her.

 

That's the core issue for me. Because "whatever that looks like for her" is not really a question for anybody. We know how it looks like to her. She wants to stay with the Fosters. She's said so. Repeatedly.

I completely understand where Robert is coming from. He missed out on his daughters whole childhood. He got robbed of being her father. It sucks! And I get that he wants her to stay with him and make the most of the time she has left before she goes off to college.

But Callie isn't a 10 year old who is faced with a choice between a stranger and people she got used to. She's not in a position where a judge can assume that "the kid might be reluctant now but she'll get used to the situation once she's had some time to adjust". She is a teenager and she is old enough to have an opinion on the matter.

Moreso, she is a teenager who got bounced around in foster homes for years. She was raped in one home, she went to juvie, lived in a group home and now that she finally found a family where she feels settled and loved they want to pull her out of it again? Do they honestly expect Callie to adjust well in a home she was forced to live in? After everything that girl has been through? I'm well aware that the situation sucks for everyone but Callie's feelings should be the prioroty here.

Lena and even Stef - as overbearing as she can be - seem to be the only ones to get that. 

I'm glad they are fighting so hard because they are not just fighting for what they want, they are also the only ones fighting for what Callie wants.

 

Love Connor and Jude <3 Hope they make it through this shooting drama (which I didn't really care for because this is like the 3rd time the show is preaching about gun violence.)

 

Also don't appreciate the "emotional affair" or whatever they are going for with Lena and her boss. The show has enough drama without adding marriage problems right now.

Edited March 16, 2015 by knaxx

[Eeksquire]

 

But Callie isn't a 10 year old who is faced with a choice between a stranger and people she got used to. She's not in a position where a judge can assume that "the kid might be reluctant now but she'll get used to the situation once she's had some time to adjust". She is a teenager and she is old enough to have an opinion on the matter.

Well, and also: she's a flight risk.  A 10 year old would have a hard time running away from home, but Callie has proven that she's willing to take that step and (for better or for worse) has models of people who have done it (including, for worse, Kiara, who we just saw recently).  And, the thing that strikes me as red flag-y in this whole situation is that we have not seen or heard from ... Sophia? (Cannot for the life of me remember Callie's half sister's name) and I can't imagine that Callie wouldn't be pointing out to the judge that it's way better for her to be with the Fosters than in an environment that is so high pressure and concerned with image that her sister is willing to walk into traffic.  (Note: I'm not saying that Sophia's depression is Robert and Jill's fault; just that it might appear that way to Callie, given what Sophia has told her and what she's observed of their family dynamic during the boat trip, for instance.)

[Perfect Xero]

Bailee Madison, who plays Sophia, is a regular on another show on another network now, so they're probably not going to be showing or bringing her up very much.

[knaxx]

Well, and also: she's a flight risk.  A 10 year old would have a hard time running away from home, but Callie has proven that she's willing to take that step and (for better or for worse) has models of people who have done it (including, for worse, Kiara, who we just saw recently).  And, the thing that strikes me as red flag-y in this whole situation is that we have not seen or heard from ... Sophia? (Cannot for the life of me remember Callie's half sister's name) and I can't imagine that Callie wouldn't be pointing out to the judge that it's way better for her to be with the Fosters than in an environment that is so high pressure and concerned with image that her sister is willing to walk into traffic.  (Note: I'm not saying that Sophia's depression is Robert and Jill's fault; just that it might appear that way to Callie, given what Sophia has told her and what she's observed of their family dynamic during the boat trip, for instance.)

Good points.

I don't think anyone can or should hold Sophia's depression against her or her parents but it's a fact that she repeatedly tried to emotionally blackmail Callie into things Callie did not want. It wasn't her fault at all and I would never want to hold a sickness against anybody in any way.

But why is nobody taking this into consideration when making a decision about Callie? "Leave the only place where you felt at home since forever as well as your brother who was your only family for the longest time and go live with your father whom you hardly know and the step-sister who threatened to kill herself unless you did what she wanted" does not sound like a decision that is made with Callie's best interest at heart at all.

It would be different if she at least was younger and still had years of adolesence ahead of her but that's not the case.

Kids are more used to adults making decisions for them. Callie's resentment about being forced to change homes would probably not be as strong and she'd have more time to adapt to her new family and grow to love them.

As it is now, if they force her to live with Robert against her will, the most liklely outcome is she's gonna silently bide her time until college and refuse to accept Robert as her father out of resentment. If she's lucky she'll manage to not close herself off completely and keep her connection with the Fosters strong enough to still refer to them as her family in the long run so she has somewhere to go home to during breaks.

That is if she doesn't run away again, like you said.

 

 

Bailee Madison, who plays Sophia, is a regular on another show on another network now, so they're probably not going to be showing or bringing her up very much.

 

I don't think Callie will end up living with Robert so I don't think we'll see the sister again. One way or another the whole thing will get resolved in favor of the Fosters but I still don't get why we need to get through all this drama when it's really not a hard decision to make.

Or at least it isn't if you truly wanted to act "In the child's best interest". But maybe that's the point, to show how the court system is failing kids by relying on misguided values like "they share a gene".

Edited March 16, 2015 by knaxx

[possibilities]

One thing I think the show has failed to do, is show Callie expressing her wishes clearly, to the court. There should be a court-appointed lawyer who represents her in custody proceedings, and there should be someone interviewing her without the parents or potential parents present. She should be shown to be saying clearly, emotionally, and without ambiguity, what she wants and why. Cue the waterworks.

 

If she hasn't spoken (and probably broken down crying), all we get is the bureaucratic treatment-- and it's unclear just how hard CALLIE has fought (as opposed to the parents).

 

I agree with everyone who thinks Callie's wishes should be considered, but they never showed us that she's actually expressed them to anyone but Stef. She's said it to Robert,  but only in the angry way teens fight about anything, including whether to clean their rooms. It's much easier to not take it seriously when she expresses it that way, than how she was when she was telling Stef in the episode where Kiara turned herself in. We really need to see her tell the judge in that way, or any way.

 

It would make a better case to the judge if she did so, and a better case to the audience for how the system fails, if we could see her being actively ignored, rather than her standing stoically and being ignored. So far they have never shown her to speak in court at all, and we have to take on faith that the judge even knows what she wants.

Edited March 16, 2015 by possibilities

[Perfect Xero]

Good points.

I don't think anyone can or should hold Sophia's depression against her or her parents but it's a fact that she repeatedly tried to emotionally blackmail Callie into things Callie did not want. It wasn't her fault at all and I would never want to hold a sickness against anybody in any way.

But why is nobody taking this into consideration when making a decision about Callie? "Leave the only place where you felt at home since forever as well as your brother who was your only family for the longest time and go live with your father whom you hardly know and the step-sister who threatened to kill herself unless you did what she wanted" does not sound like a decision that is made with Callie's best interest at heart at all.

 

If they start taking things said/done by the other kids in the house in to consideration they'll have to take in to consideration that Callie and Brandon engaged in a romantic relationship, that resulted in Callie running away, violating her parole, and getting thrown in jail. She and Brandon then continued to see and communicate with each other against the rules that were set up by Girls United. Which, bluntly put, trumps anything that Sophia said as far as determining where it's in Callie's best interests to live.

 

Which is part of the reason that they can't just do what the kid wants, Callie doesn't see this as an issue about whether she should live with Stef/Lena, but having been romantically entangled with her foster brother is absolutely an issue.

 

And that's before we even get in to the fact that Brandon told the police that he framed Callie for making/selling fake IDs as revenge for her rejecting his romantic advances, and that she (who was already on the record as having been raped by a previous Foster brother) was still allowed to continue living in the same house as Brandon.

 

How far should the "child's wishes" go? What if Lena has to fire Best-Teacher-Ever Timothy again and Mariana decides that she'd rather live with her boyfriend's family than keep living with Lena? Should Stef and Lena shrug their shoulders and sign off on that because it's what Mariana wants? Should the courts step in and force the termination of Stef and Lena's parental rights?

[knaxx]

 

If they start taking things said/done by the other kids in the house in to consideration they'll have to take in to consideration that Callie and Brandon engaged in a romantic relationship, that resulted in Callie running away, violating her parole, and getting thrown in jail.

 

True. I keep blocking that out because I still think it's the worst storyline the show has done but you're right, Brandon and Callie being involved should have come up as a red flag.

On the other hand, as far as Lena, Stef and the court system are concerned, Brandon and Callie are nothing more than siblings by now and living with Brandon doesn't seem to be a source of discomfort for Callie while living with Sopha might be. They haven't brought up either situation in front of the judge though so we can't be sure either way.

And sure, the child's wishes shouldn't be the only thing taken into consideration but if there is nothing pointing to the home being unsafe, unsuitable or harmful for Callie's well being, her wishes should be the deciding factor in my opinion. If the show presented it in a way that made me believe the judge had reason to believe Callie would not be well taken care of at the Fosters, it'd be different but right now it seems like he views both homes as suitable and only leans towards Robert because he's the bio dad.

 

 

One thing I think the show has failed to do, is show Callie expressing her wishes clearly, to the court.

 

Huh, that is also very true. I kinda just assumed that Callie at some point gave a statement about what she wanted but since we never saw that or heard about it I guess we can't argue as if she had.

While we're on the subject of what should be done and isn't shown, shouldn't Rita also have been questioned at some point? She works for the system, she lived with Callie for a while and she still seems close to her. Apart from not knowing the real reasons for Callie briefly wanting to move in with Robert, she is usually aware of Callie's wishes and could be a good advocate for her.

 

However this ends, I bet it's either gonna be a cheap cop out or unrealistic as hell. lol

[LeGrandElephant]

We haven't seen Callie tell a judge she wants to live with Stef and Lena. Worse, we DID see Callie tell Robert she wanted to live with him, and we did not see her tell him she had changed her mind - presumably Stef told him Callie had changed her mind when she was blackmailing him. How is he supposed to know what Callie really wants, and why, and how much?

[DCCFanInKy]

However this ends, I bet it's either gonna be a cheap cop out or unrealistic as hell. lol

After what I just saw I'm willing to bet

Robert is out of the picture

......