Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Sakura12]

Pics from Raiders of the Lost Art.

http://www.cbr.com/legion-of-dooms-on-a-hunt-in-legends-of-tomorrow-winter-premiere-pics/

I guess Sara's posing as a nurse again. 

[Sakura12]

It looks like they are doing the moon landing in ep 14. 

[Miss Dee]

Is that Dominic Purcell?! OH MY GOD THAT'S HILARIOUS. I can't wait to see how they talk Mick into that outfit....

Edited January 12, 2017 by Miss Dee

[kismet]

The Moon Landing?? Seriously, if I didn't know any better I would think the writers rooms of Timeless & LoT brainstorm together for ideas. I realize their would be some crossover of historical events but the overlap is getting a little much.

That being said, I love that time period on film/tv, so it should be exciting. Wonder if they'll do a shout out to the African-American Women forgotten by NASA for years as well.

[Proteus]

Wentworth Miller talking about Snart:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/11/legends-of-tomorrow-star-wentworth-miller-captain-cold-return/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

Leonard Snart will soon return in the flesh to DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, but this is a very different Captain Cold than fans remember.

After sacrificing himself in season 1 to destroy the Time Council and save the Legends, Snart (Wentworth Miller) is slated to join Reverse-Flash (Matt Letscher), Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough), and Malcolm Merlyn (John Barrowman) in the Legion of Doom — and not just as a vision in Mick’s (Dominic Purcell) head. How? Well, it is a time travel show, and it sounds like the Legion may be scooping up Snart from an earlier time.

“My sense is that if Snart comes back into the storyline via his present day incarnation, then he’s a straight up villain,” Miller tells EW — the actor was on hand at the Television Critics Association’s press tour Wednesday to promote the return of Prison Break. “He hasn’t gone on that first season Legends of Tomorrow journey yet, so when we meet him again — quote unquote alive in 2017 — I imagine that he’s going to be much like when we first met him the first season on The Flash, which I’m looking forward to, because it means I get to arc to a completely different place.”

In what could be a reversal of the first season, in which Mick wasn’t pleased with Snart’s heroic leanings, Cold seeing his former partner in crime working alongside a group of heroes should provide some tension between the pair. “I think he’d be disappointed,” Miller says. “I also think some of that disappointment would steam from being triggered by watching his former buddy, a hard criminal, show a softer, more heroic side, because that might mean to Snart that he, too, is capable of showing a softer, more heroic side. I’m looking forward to their interaction for sure.”

But Snart didn’t just leave Heat Wave behind when he died. In the moments before his sacrifice, Cold and Sara (Caity Lotz) shared a smooch. “I’m also looking forward very much to whatever the writers have in store as far as Snart as White Canary,” Miller says. “There was a kiss, remembered by White Canary, but not Snart.”

As for the Legion of Doom, Miller admits he doesn’t know much about the villainous quartet, but doesn’t believe Snart will work well with others since Cold has always been a leader type. “What I can tell you is that Snart is not used to taking orders,” Miller says. “He’s not a team player. That was certainly his story the first season on Legends, so I expect fireworks. I look forward to it.”

DC’s Legends of Tomorrow returns Tuesday, Jan. 24 at 9 p.m. ET on The CW.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Proteus

[Miss Dee]

Well, at least this time it's the guy who doesn't remember the kiss....

[Proteus]

New trailer focused on Rips return:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCW_Legends/status/819604870428704768/video/1

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, Proteus said:

New trailer focused on Rips return:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCW_Legends/status/819604870428704768/video/1

That's a great trailer. :)

[kirinan]

10 hours ago, Proteus said:

Wentworth Miller talking about Snart:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/11/legends-of-tomorrow-star-wentworth-miller-captain-cold-return/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

Leonard Snart will soon return in the flesh to DC’s Legends of Tomorrow

Excuse me while I squee! Thank you for posting this, Proteus! You just made my day.

I also saw this: https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/tca-2017-x-men-series-prison-break-premiere-date-24-legacy-gotham-more/

Which included this: 

Quote

SNART IS BACK FOR FOUR ARROWVERSE EPISODES

After the Prison Break panel, Wentworth Miller told reporters he is leaving on Thursday for Vancouver to film four episodes as Snart/Captain Cold. He will be in three Legends of Tomorrow episodes and one of The Flash.

So another appearance by Captain Cold on The Flash, too!

Edited January 12, 2017 by kirinan

[Proteus]

Aww, you're welcome!

And thanks for posting that. I'm glad we have an episode number.

[rtalive]

19 hours ago, Proteus said:

New trailer focused on Rips return:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCW_Legends/status/819604870428704768/video/1

There is a glimpse of Rip on the captains chair, does this mean, that he will take Sara's place as a captain, or I am seeing it wrong. To be honest after that article about Legends and feminism, that Marc Guggenhaim posted, it would be so strange to make a move like that. I mean Rip sure was their captain, but he lost that position, I don't see a reason why he should take it back.

[squidprincess]

I wouldn't read too much into it.  It could be a flashback to how he ended up mind-scrambled.  Or it could be that they trade off who sits in the Captain's chair.   It's still Rip's ship and quest after all, even if Sara's better at leading the others.

(I still think the ideal resolution is either a straight co-captaincy, or a set up similar to Nate and Sophie on Leverage after his time in prison.  He was still nominal leader, but Sophie had at least as much actual power over the group when she cared to use it.  I think that dynamic could work here too.)

Edited January 13, 2017 by squidprincess

[rtalive]

1 hour ago, squidprincess said:

I wouldn't read too much into it.  It could be a flashback to how he ended up mind-scrambled.  Or it could be that they trade off who sits in the Captain's chair.   It's still Rip's ship and quest after all, even if Sara's better at leading the others.

(I still think the ideal resolution is either a straight co-captaincy, or a set up similar to Nate and Sophie on Leverage after his time in prison.  He was still nominal leader, but Sophie had at least as much actual power over the group when she cared to use it.  I think that dynamic could work here too.)

I hope it is a flashback. I don't think it is his quest and ship anymore, because he abandon it and the mission. I think he wanted to leave and have a normal life. The Legends now are more of a democracy with Sara having the final word as the person who has the biggest experience. I think the quest now belongs to all of them, not just Rip, he is just one of the many guys there.

[squidprincess]

36 minutes ago, rtalive said:

I hope it is a flashback. I don't think it is his quest and ship anymore, because he abandon it and the mission. I think he wanted to leave and have a normal life. The Legends now are more of a democracy with Sara having the final word as the person who has the biggest experience. I think the quest now belongs to all of them, not just Rip, he is just one of the many guys there.

He didn't "abandon" his mission or his ship.  We don't know exactly what happened between piloting the ship in the path of a bomb to save New York City in 1942, but it's pretty clear that if he's been "reprogrammed" by the bad guys, it wasn't a willing situation.

There is NO indicator that Rip Hunter has ever wanted a "normal life".  That's never been part of his personality.  Even when he had a wife and kid he was a Time Master.  And, considering that he was at the Time Masters' orphanage at ten years old, it's probably fair to say being a Time Master IS his normal life.

And that ties in with the initial quest.  Rip is the one who wants to replace the Time Masters.  He recruits the others, but the only reason they're emotionally invested at all in the quest is because of him.  Sara says it herself, in Compromised, she agrees with Jax, but they have to preserve the timeline because that's what Rip tasked them to do.   Even then, Sara ends up risking the timeline herself by taunting Darhk with future knowledge.  It's understandable why she did it, but that's not preserving the timeline.   

The ship absolutely belongs to Rip, if it belongs to anyone.  He has piloted it for thirteen years.  He's the one who knows the ins and outs.  Furthermore, Gideon probably has a say in the whole matter, and Gideon has been his partner for about that long and willingly turned traitor against the Time Masters with him.

And I think it's interesting that you'd say that Sara has the "biggest experience".  How exactly?  Ray, Martin, and Jax have traveled just as long as she has.  Mick, as Chronos, actually has more experience than any of them (arguably more than Rip himself, though I doubt his goes into academic theory at all).  Rip is the actual Time Master (and has been DC comics' flagship time travel character since 1959.)  Martin's got the most academic knowledge.  Jax has the most experience with how the ship actually runs.  Amaya may have more experience as a legitimate superhero.  Sara's the best leader, but that's different criteria entirely.

There are a lot of ways that Sara could stay a captain or a co-captain of the crew, but Rip will never just be "one of the many guys".

Edited January 13, 2017 by squidprincess

[Miss Dee]

I'd be sorry to lose Rip altogether, so I don't want Arthur Darvill to leave the show. But considering the fact they've established he was a less talented Time Master than his wife, I'd like to see an arc where he has to relinquish his captaincy for the sake of the ship and the mission because Sara's more capable than he is, and become her "Riker" instead, and the feelings he has to process regarding that.

[rtalive]

6 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

He didn't "abandon" his mission or his ship.  We don't know exactly what happened between piloting the ship in the path of a bomb to save New York City in 1942, but it's pretty clear that if he's been "reprogrammed" by the bad guys, it wasn't a willing situation.

There is NO indicator that Rip Hunter has ever wanted a "normal life".  That's never been part of his personality.  Even when he had a wife and kid he was a Time Master.  And, considering that he was at the Time Masters' orphanage at ten years old, it's probably fair to say being a Time Master IS his normal life.

And that ties in with the initial quest.  Rip is the one who wants to replace the Time Masters.  He recruits the others, but the only reason they're emotionally invested at all in the quest is because of him.  Sara says it herself, in Compromised, she agrees with Jax, but they have to preserve the timeline because that's what Rip tasked them to do.   Even then, Sara ends up risking the timeline herself by taunting Darhk with future knowledge.  It's understandable why she did it, but that's not preserving the timeline.   

The ship absolutely belongs to Rip, if it belongs to anyone.  He has piloted it for thirteen years.  He's the one who knows the ins and outs.  Furthermore, Gideon probably has a say in the whole matter, and Gideon has been his partner for about that long and willingly turned traitor against the Time Masters with him.

And I think it's interesting that you'd say that Sara has the "biggest experience".  How exactly?  Ray, Martin, and Jax have traveled just as long as she has.  Mick, as Chronos, actually has more experience than any of them (arguably more than Rip himself, though I doubt his goes into academic theory at all).  Rip is the actual Time Master (and has been DC comics' flagship time travel character since 1959.)  Martin's got the most academic knowledge.  Jax has the most experience with how the ship actually runs.  Amaya may have more experience as a legitimate superhero.  Sara's the best leader, but that's different criteria entirely.

There are a lot of ways that Sara could stay a captain or a co-captain of the crew, but Rip will never just be "one of the many guys".

About Rip it was just the way I interpret his actions and what happened. If I remember correctly he wanted to die in the end of s1 and went straight to the sun, but changed his mind (i can be wrong, because it was long ago i watched that episode), so this suggests that his mission is over, once he killed Savage and could not save his family.

Now in the beginning of this season he sent everybody to some specific timeline and had specific plan for himself, which we will find out probably in the next episode. My speculations are that he on purpose erased his memories so he can live a normal life, but it can be something else.

Sara has the best experience as a leader because she of her past. Nate is just historian turned superhero with an injection, Ray is silly scientist with big ego, Stain proved to be incompetent in battle, Jax is too young, Mick is an antihero, Rip is a selfish leader who brought all these people for his personal vendetta and lied to them. In the end it proved that most of his decisions were wrong.

[squidprincess]

14 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I'd be sorry to lose Rip altogether, so I don't want Arthur Darvill to leave the show. But considering the fact they've established he was a less talented Time Master than his wife, I'd like to see an arc where he has to relinquish his captaincy for the sake of the ship and the mission because Sara's more capable than he is, and become her "Riker" instead, and the feelings he has to process regarding that.

They didn't actually establish that he was less talented than Miranda.  They established that Miranda was very talented in a testing scenario which took place at least ten years before.  In that situation, she used a solution that he didn't seem to like.

They were also trying to hide their emotional involvement during that time, so it's not clear if that's even how he really felt about her clever solution.  (Especially considering that he used it himself later in the episode.)  One testing scenario isn't really a good measure of who is better than whom, especially when the job seems to incorporate a lot of different aspects.  (We do know from Eobard Thawne that Rip was the one who originally created the Time Sphere, that Cisco rebuilt for him.)

They also, in the same episode, established that Rip was actually pretty known and feared among space pirates.  And Druce's attitude toward him in White Knights and Destiny indicate that before he left the Time Masters, he was well-reputed and respected for his abilities.

None of that has anything to do with Sara's strengths as a leader either.  There are many areas where she is definitely more capable than he is, but since those don't include knowledge of the timeline, what can and can't be altered, how to avoid killing historical figures ten years early, how to keep an eye the team before they permanently change their timeline, and so on.  I'm not sure how they'd rationalize him stepping down for the sake of the mission.

If we're looking at Sara's strength as a Captain, the way that might make the most sense would be for Sara to have the Riker/field commander role, acting as interface between Rip and the crew.

[squidprincess]

50 minutes ago, rtalive said:

About Rip it was just the way I interpret his actions and what happened. If I remember correctly he wanted to die in the end of s1 and went straight to the sun, but changed his mind (i can be wrong, because it was long ago i watched that episode), so this suggests that his mission is over, once he killed Savage and could not save his family.

Now in the beginning of this season he sent everybody to some specific timeline and had specific plan for himself, which we will find out probably in the next episode. My speculations are that he on purpose erased his memories so he can live a normal life, but it can be something else.

Sara has the best experience as a leader because she of her past. Nate is just historian turned superhero with an injection, Ray is silly scientist with big ego, Stain proved to be incompetent in battle, Jax is too young, Mick is an antihero, Rip is a selfish leader who brought all these people for his personal vendetta and lied to them. In the end it proved that most of his decisions were wrong.

Rip is the one who recruited the team at the end of the finale saying "We need to replace the Time Masters."  That's his new mission.  And if he didn't re-recruit them, they'd have stayed in 2016.

He specifically scattered the team, because there was a nuclear bomb heading toward New York, and he was flying/floating the ship between it and the bomb.  He clearly did have some kind of plan and expected to be gone for a while based on his message.  But that has nothing to do with "living a normal life."

In the mean time, they'd spent six months preserving the timeline and he'd clearly indicated that he wanted them to continue, through HIS message.  In the meantime, the synopsis indicates amnesia, and the promo specifically tells us that he was reprogrammed by the Legion.  So that's not a willing abandonment at all.

I think it's hard to compare Rip and Sara as leaders, because the missions were so different.  We only really got to see Rip lead a "preserve the timeline" mission in Out of Time.  I think it's fair to say she's better with the team, he's better with the timeline (on account of we actually saw him monitoring such things, keeping careful note of event dates and times, and catching things like the last time Martin managed to fuck up his timeline.).  It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Maybe she'll stay Captain, and he'll provide the timeline expertise as needed (whatever you do DO NOT kill this historical figure!), kind of like a Science Officer with veto power.  Maybe he'll stay Captain, and she'll step in to direct and manage the crew, like a First Officer with the acknowledged ability to lead a mutiny.    Maybe they'll both be Captain, with their separate areas of expertise and the mutual respect and ability to work together that they showed all through season one.  Actually, in a practical sense, I think those might all be exactly the same dynamic in the end.

Maybe they'll do something completely different instead.  :-)

(Sorry for the double post.  I couldn't figure out how to get both replies in one.)

Edited January 13, 2017 by squidprincess

[Miss Dee]

I'd be good with co-captaincy, to be honest. I really don't want Rip to be taken down a peg; I didn't have any problem with him last season, other than when he told Mick he had the IQ of meat, and I think it was made pretty clear he was (as Spock would put it) "emotionally compromised" at the time and made a poor decision. I don't think that's who he's supposed to be as a whole (any writing issues aside).

On the other hand, while I don't have any particular affinity for Sara (I like her fine, but I missed her Arrow back story and didn't get time to be emotionally invested in her), I Iike how she's stepped up and tried her best to lead this group on a difficult mission and I really don't want her reward for that to be relinquishing command again.

As I'm a sucker for good drama, and the writers proved they can write that well with Mick/Len last year, I would like them all to struggle with who's in charge until they storm and norm themselves into a workable solution. Which is probably co-captains, with each one taking over depending on the specific mission objective.

Now, if the writers would only firmly establish whether Mick has the knowledge and experience of Chronos or not! I have no idea if I'm supposed to read things as "Mick really is a dumbass" or if he's hiding the fact he can run this ship in his sleep or if Gideon wasn't kidding when she suggested she was tampering with his brain and now he can't access his prior memories. 

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Now, if the writers would only firmly establish whether Mick has the knowledge and experience of Chronos or not! I have no idea if I'm supposed to read things as "Mick really is a dumbass" or if he's hiding the fact he can run this ship in his sleep or if Gideon wasn't kidding when she suggested she was tampering with his brain and now he can't access his prior memories. 

I would like to know this as well.  

As far as the captaincy issue, my personal preference would be Sara stays as captain and Rip is her "First Officer" so to speak.   But that's my own personal biases at work.  Sara's my fave, and I think I just would like Rip much better if he was not the leader.  

[squidprincess]

22 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Now, if the writers would only firmly establish whether Mick has the knowledge and experience of Chronos or not! I have no idea if I'm supposed to read things as "Mick really is a dumbass" or if he's hiding the fact he can run this ship in his sleep or if Gideon wasn't kidding when she suggested she was tampering with his brain and now he can't access his prior memories. 

This would actually be the perfect time to revisit that.  I mean, if anyone understands what it means to have your identity reprogrammed against your will, it'd be Mick.  Rip did try to help him back then (unsuccessfully), so maybe Mick might be willing to use his own experience to try to help his teammate.

[Sakura12]

It was Sara that helped Mick, not Rip. Everyone else including Rip wanted to toss Mick off the ship. Sara was the one that said they should give him another chance because she understood what it's like to join a group when you think you have nothing left. She was the one that went to talk to him and tell him to make up his mind, and she was the one that told Snart to work it out with his friend. Sara was basically the team counselor last season. 

Sara's also another that experienced a time drift when she rejoined the LoA and became a loyal follower of Ra's al Ghul again. 

I think they did establish that Rip's wife was the better Time Master, I think Rip himself said that. She gave up her career for him. So I don't think he was all that great. Plus he has no social or leadership skills. Which is strange since Sara went through Stockholm Syndrome with Dr. Ivo, was stranded on an island for year and joined a group of assassins and she still has better social skills than most people.

The team respects Sara's leadership, besides maybe Sara the rest of them didn't respect Rip, so I think it might be up to the team about who they want to follow.  For me the best bet would be Rip's the Time Monitor, while Sara's the Captain. I think Rip would agree that being a leader suits Sara and that she is better than him at it. The producers have also said that Rip was grooming Sara to become a Time Master before he found out they were evil. Maybe that means he always wanted her to take over or knew she would step up in his absence. 

[squidprincess]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

It was Sara that helped Mick, not Rip. Everyone else including Rip wanted to toss Mick off the ship. Sara was the one that said they should give him another chance because she understood what it's like to join a group when you think you have nothing left. She was the one that went to talk to him and tell him to make up his mind, and she was the one that told Snart to work it out with his friend. Sara was basically the team counselor last season. 

You're remembering incorrectly.

In Left Behind, after they discovered Mick was Chronos, when Mick was in the cell, Rip was the one who first said to the team, "If [Snart had killed Rory] then we wouldn't have this opportunity. . .to reform Mr. Rory."  I would be happy to provide a time stamp, if you'd like.

When Kendra protests that Mick killed Aldis, it's Rip who says that it was the Time Masters who did it.  Sara then backs him up by bringing up her own experiences with being trained to kill.  Martin, Jax and Ray all back them up.  But the idea came from Rip, not Sara.

Furthermore, Rip was also one of the people who came to Mick's cell in Progeny to try to reach him.  At that time, he claimed to have ordered Snart to deal with Rory (even though we know how Snart would have reacted to that order), and told Mick he should only be angry at him.  That's what I'm referring to, when I indicate his unsuccessful attempt to help Mick.  Mick didn't truly come back to himself until Snart stepped into the cell.  But he may remember Rip making the attempt nonetheless.

Edited January 14, 2017 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

I'm still going to stand by Sara did more for Mick then Rip did. Sara's the one that got Snart to talk to him, which made him change his mind. And I don't see how Mick can have any respect for someone that told him he had the IQ of meat. So I doubt Mick even remembers Rip doing anything for him. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Sakura12

[squidprincess]

That's your right.   Sara's contribution, whether more or less than Rip's, isn't really relevant to what I was talking about.  Assuming that Gideon is correct in the trailer, Rip isn't suffering from time drift in the same way that Sara, Kendra and Ray did in the 1950s, but instead was actually "reprogrammed", which sounds a lot like Mick's own experiences at the hands of the Time Masters.  This would be an excellent opportunity to revisit that, and learn what Mick feels about and has retained from being Chronos.

Fortunately, Mick doesn't seem to be holding a grudge for Rip's tirade in Marooned.  In Legendary, he even referred to Rip as a friend.  (Specifically stating that he didn't want to lose another friend, when Rip was going to fly the meteor into the sun.)   I've always thought that Rip and Mick actually had one of the most complex dynamics, with a lot of interesting parallels, last season.  I would be very happy if this new parallel gave the show the opportunity to explore that dynamic in more depth.

[lurker22]

On 11/01/2017 at 0:51 AM, Sakura12 said:

Pics from Raiders of the Lost Art.

http://www.cbr.com/legion-of-dooms-on-a-hunt-in-legends-of-tomorrow-winter-premiere-pics/

I guess Sara's posing as a nurse again.

This is the third time Sara's playing a nurse now? Once in every decade - 50s, 60s, 70s.

 

Caity, Arthur, Nick and Maisie shooting Ep 14.

http://yvrshoots.com/2017/01/shoot-legends-of-tomorrows-rip-hunter-arthur-darvill-sara-lance-caity-lotz-nathan-nick-zano-vixen-maisie-richardson-sellers-in-downtown-vancouver.html

Sara really looks like someone right out of the 60s.

[MarkHB]

Caity Lotz wears dramatic clothing really, really well.

[lurker22]

2 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Caity Lotz wears dramatic clothing really, really well.

That's true. I don't think there's an episode where I don't believe she's playing a character from that era. She always looks the part. The costume department has been especially great this year.

[squidprincess]

The same site has these images too.  Also from Moonshot.  Rip, in his normal costume, and what looks like Commander Steel.   I could have sworn they'd said he was supposed to have died in the 1950s, but maybe I'm completely mistaken.

[Proteus]

“The Legion of Doom” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, V) (HDTV)

TAKING RISKS — The Legends are determined to find and rescue Rip (Arthur Darvill), but first must focus on locating the Spear of Destiny.  Stein (Victor Garber) thinks he has the perfect person to help but knows involving her will be risky. Meanwhile, Malcom Merlyn (guest star John Barrowman) and Damien Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) realize that Thawne (guest star Matt Letscher) is pitting them against each other.  Caity Lotz, Brandon Routh, Dominic Purcell, Nick Zano, Franz Drameh and Maisie Richardson-Sellers also star. Eric Laneuville directed the episode written by Phil Klemmer & Marc Guggenheim (#210).  Original airdate 1/31/2017.

SOURCE:

The CW

[lurker22]

I am most probably wrong, but I get the feeling from the filming pictures that Rip is taking the lead in the episode, or at least whatever aberration they're dealing with. Maybe Sara relinquishes the leadership role to Rip when he gets his memories back?

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, lurker22 said:

I am most probably wrong, but I get the feeling from the filming pictures that Rip is taking the lead in the episode, or at least whatever aberration they're dealing with. Maybe Sara relinquishes the leadership role to Rip when he gets his memories back?

That would be disappointing. But I can see Sara giving the role back to Rip because while she's a good leader, she probably doesn't think she is. 

I'm going to hope that Sara can't help but take charge when things go south and Rip realizes she's better suited to lead then him or at least lead out in the field. I wouldn't mind Commander Lance. 

[lurker22]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

That would be disappointing. But I can see Sara giving the role back to Rip because while she's a good leader, she probably doesn't think she is. 

I'm going to hope that Sara can't help but take charge when things go south and Rip realizes she's better suited to lead then him or at least lead out in the field. I wouldn't mind Commander Lance. 

Maybe Sara feels like she's just temporarily stepping in for Rip. Once he's back to his old self, she'll give him his leadership role back. Plus, I can see Sara not wanting to always have to bear the burden of being responsible for the team (but she's always going to protect them and have their backs, of course).

Rip will probably still talk over his plans with Sara and confide in her, like he has been doing in Season 1. And she's a natural leader, so when things go wrong as they always do, she'll definitely step up.

I will miss Captain Lance if this is the route they're going, though.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, lurker22 said:

I will miss Captain Lance if this is the route they're going, though.

Being Captain has done wonders for her character, it almost makes every thing she went through worth it. She's a natural leader and Rip is not. I really hope they do co-Captains. They'd probably function better as a team if they did that. Rip has the time knowledge and Sara has the field experience and the respect of the entire team including Rip. 

I think Sara's super power is her ability to adapt to any situation and make the best of it. She doesn't dwell or mope about it too long. She pulls herself together and becomes who she needs to be to help the situation. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Sakura12

[lurker22]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Sara's super power is her ability to adapt to any situation and make the best of it. She doesn't dwell or mope about it too long. She pulls herself together and becomes who she needs to be to help the situation. 

That's true. It's unlike Rip's leadership style who lectures the team on what they did wrong after every mission, so much so that even Ray is annoyed by it.

[Tipper]

My preference is for Sara to be formally acknowledged as First Officer. I like Rip just fine as Captain, and I don't want to see him booted down the pecking order on his own ship.

I'm wondering if the start of the new trailer (Rip with the amber glowy thing) is the scene where he gets his memories back. He looks about as pained as you'd expect in that scenario.

[Sakura12]

If we go by Navy ranks since they are in a ship. Commander is the rank under Captian.

[rtalive]

Well for the argument who is the better leader, I think if we put that aside, because everyone has his/hers favorite, we all can agree, I think, that being a captain is something a person should acquire by qualities and work and once you stepped down from the position, due to what ever reasons, you don't just take it back, because it used to be yours. What I mean is that Rip is no longer a captain, just because he was once, does not mean he can't have successors. So now it is Sara, so I don're really see a reason, why she should give up the position to someone, who previously occupied it, but no longer does, when she proved herself as a good captain.

[squidprincess]

Except, again, Rip did not ever willingly step down.

He scattered the team to save their lives and then put the ship in the path of the nuclear bomb to save New York City.  After which he was lost for a significant amount of time.  The synopsis tells us he's amnesiac.  The trailer says "reprogrammed."  What about that sounds willing?  What sounds like stepping down?

Sara took over while Rip was gone, because Rip was gone.  She did a fine job, but that doesn't mean she ever meant it to be permanent.  She may not even want it to be permanent, given how unhappy she's seemed under the burden of command at times.  For that matter, Rip may not want to be in command when he comes back, given that he's likely to have some personal issues to work out.   There are a lot of ways this could go.

But honestly, it's a bit gross to equate being a victim of circumstance and probably also a victim of the bad guys directly to "stepping down".

Edited January 16, 2017 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

I think Rip is suffering from a time drift, then gets captured by the LoD and gets reprogammed. So I think the first part was his choice. The second part happens after the team loses him. 

[squidprincess]

That's possible, we don't know the exact sequence of events.  (To me, it looks like they already find him reprogrammed.  Sara, Kendra and Ray weren't going around under new names.  And they did recognize the crew when they met him again.  Rip doesn't seem to be in that position.  But trailers can be misleading.)

But if you're right, I don't think we can even say that time drift is really by choice.  If he had to escape the ship before dying and ended up marooned in the 1960s long enough for time drift to kick in, that's that's more circumstance than choice.  

Heck, even if he was intentionally hiding because he knew that the Legion of Doom wanted whatever he knows about the Spear of Destiny, that's more duress and necessity than it is free choice.

It's certainly not the same thing as intentionally stepping down or abandoning their quest.

On a new topic though: from the interviews, it sounds as if we'll be getting a real version of Leonard Snart soon.  I wonder how that connects with Mick's hallucination.  Are the hallucinations real?  Or is the Legion beaming Snart into his head somehow.  If even a part of the spear can rewrite memories, what else can it do?

Edited January 16, 2017 by squidprincess

[Sakura12]

I don't know how much LoA Sara recognized the team since she was the one that ordered their deaths, not Ra's. Kendra was able to get through to her right when Sara was going to kill her. 

That's what Sara looks like she's trying to do in the promo. I think Rip would choose another name because he's better at hiding in time. 

We could also have a situation where Rip doesn't trust himself to lead since he's been reprogrammed. 

[squidprincess]

Sara definitely seems like she's trying to get through to Rip, but it also looks like the scene where Gideon describes him as being reprogrammed is after that.  I think we're supposed to see the sequence as going directly from Rip fainting on the roof, to Rip in the infirmary.  (Sara's wearing the same outfit all along.)

We're also forgetting that Rip is making a movie or at least a film project about "Rip Hunter".  Which generally indicates one of two things: either he remembers and is trying to alert the team to his whereabouts (in which case, why the alias?), or he's amnesiac, but is dealing with some kind of residual memory situation.  

Either way, I don't think there's any indication that Rip abandoned the quest willingly.

I wonder if "reprogramming" doesn't include more than just memories.  There's a quick shot in the trailer of Rip, still with that awful wig, holding a gun on someone.  If he's aiming it toward the team, there might be bigger issues than just false memories going on.  If that's the case, even when "fixed", Rip may have another reason not to trust himself to lead afterward.  

Really, the show can go anywhere with this set up.  :-)

Edited January 16, 2017 by squidprincess

[kirinan]

1 hour ago, squidprincess said:

On a new topic though: from the interviews, it sounds as if we'll be getting a real version of Leonard Snart soon.  I wonder how that connects with Mick's hallucination.  Are the hallucinations real?  Or is the Legion beaming Snart into his head somehow.  If even a part of the spear can rewrite memories, what else can it do?

It also occurred to me--could it be Reverse Flash disguising himself as Snart? After all, he managed to disguise himself as Wells all that first season of The Flash. Plus he's there and gone so abruptly. It was just a stray thought, and I'm sure I'm way, way off (like continents off), but I figured I'd throw it out there. 

[Miss Dee]

Huh. Is it possible that in trying to rescue Rip any of the team end up going undercover as actors? That might be why we saw Nate and Amaya disrobed and in bed in one of the promos.... 

[squidprincess]

Just now, Miss Dee said:

Huh. Is it possible that in trying to rescue Rip any of the team end up going undercover as actors? That might be why we saw Nate and Amaya disrobed and in bed in one of the promos.... 

That was my thought too.  I have nothing against Nate/Amaya in theory, but I always thought that promo looked weird.  If Nate and Amaya are going to sleep together, then why not sleep together on the ship?  And I really don't think Amaya's the sort who would have sex with someone in the middle of a mission.  It would make more sense to me if they were actors.  Or if it was some kind of hallucination of Mick's.  It was just too staged.

[Starfish35]

Eh, maybe, but I doubt it.  I think they probably will go there with Nick and Amaya.  I suspected so earlier, but then they started playing up Mick and Amaya and I thought maybe I was wrong.

It doesn't really bother me because I think both Nick's and Amaya's time on the show is limited.  I think they will probably rotate Nick out at the end of this season.  Not sure about Amaya, but eventually, if Mari is to exist, she has to drop back into the timestream.

[Miss Dee]

Bonus points if Nate and Amaya only do it so they don't blow their cover, and Ray and Jax entertain themselves for the rest of the show brainstorming all the techniques Mick would know on how to rip steel apart by now in front of Nick while he wets his pants (metaphorically)....

[Proteus]

I really couldn't care a less about Mari and I don't think Amaya should be written off just so another character who only has an animated show can exist. That said, I've said before they can just say Amaya had a baby before joining the JSA.

Mick and Amaya are way more interesting than her being with Nate IMO. I hope it's just a fake out.

I am hoping Nate exits after this season.

[squidprincess]

1 minute ago, Proteus said:

I really couldn't care a less about Mari and I don't think Amaya should be written off just so another character who only has an animated show can exist. That said, I've said before they can just say Amaya had a baby before joining the JSA.

Mick and Amaya are way more interesting than her being with Nate IMO. I hope it's just a fake out.

I am hoping Nate exits after this season.

Mari also appeared on Arrow and had a significant role in saving William from Darhk and destroying Darhk's power source.  It'd be a bit problematic if she didn't exist.