Chicago Redshirt February 17, 2015 Share February 17, 2015 It's part of the show's premise, but it's also its tragic flaw. "Hey, here's a guy who's so brilliant that with his perfect memory he can fake being a lawyer better than actual lawyers!" Sounds good as a tagline, but as we've seen over the life of the show, it's just getting dragged out. And now, so many people know, it's not funny: All the main regulars now are in the know: Harvey, Donna, Louis, Rachel and Jessica. (One presumes at some point soon, Jeff Malone will figure it out and it will lead to fights with him and Jessica. Similarly, at some point Robert Zane will figure it out, and that will lead to fights with him and Rachel.) Anybody who was close to Mike presumably knows. Trevor and Jenny explicitly know. One would have to think that Tess knows, or would know. The hacker who faked Mike's credentials knows. The ethically compromised ethics professor from Harvard knows. And more than anything, it doesn't seem like it would be that tough a thing to discover. In an age of Facebook, Twitter and other social media, I don't see how half of the younger associates -- of which there are presumably a dozen or more each year, and all of whom are supposedly Harvard grads -- haven't figured out that neither they nor anyone they know has had a class with Mike, an extracurricular with Mike, seen Mike's name in connection with anything Harvard during the three years he was supposedly there, noticed that Mike does not have much experiential knowledge of being at Harvard, etc. Anybody got any ideas how to get rid of the secret so the show can move onward and upward? 4 Link to comment
Splash February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 At this point, I see no way for the show to move on from this. Too many people know and too many crimes have been committed to covering it up. I wouldn't be surprised if the show ends with everyone going to jail and Daniel Hardman taking over what would be left of the firm. Link to comment
Cthulhudrew February 20, 2015 Share February 20, 2015 I still wonder why they even did the whole hacker/fake degree story anyway. It's almost as if some writer somehow snuck that script in, they shot it, and afterwards, one of the producers saw the finished show on tv and was like "Who the hell let this get made? There goes 90% of the potential drama on this show!" and then did everything they could to undermine that episode afterwards. Link to comment
Splash February 20, 2015 Share February 20, 2015 (edited) I think the show would have worked better if Mike had went to law school and took the bar exam, but sometime after graduation and before being admitted to the bar, he was arrested and convicted on drug charges. From what I've read briefly online, it seems that a conviction wouldn't necessarily prevent you from being admitted, but if you were denied admission, they might reconsider after a period of time. Doing that wouldn't have changed the initial premise of the show much at all. Mike could have been dealing with the best friend, got busted, but not be that worried because all of his law school friends have told him that a conviction wouldn't matter. When he's not admitted to the bar, he decides to be a drug courier for the best friend, in order to start paying back his loans (instead of to get money to pay for his grandma's nursing home, like in the pilot) and that's when he meets Harvey. Yeah, there won't be any "the secret" drama, but maybe the conflict could be from Mike being frustrated because he'll never be able to advance at the firm without being admitted to the bar. Edited February 20, 2015 by Splash 1 Link to comment
needschocolate February 22, 2015 Share February 22, 2015 The only way out of the whole secret mess that I can imagine ---- Mike walks into the offices of Pearson Hardman, walks straight into Harvey's office and says, "You wouldn't believe the dream I had last night. It started with me telling you that I didn't go to law school, then Jessica finds out, and, pretty soon, everybody knows, including professors and your girlfriend - by the way, you had a girlfriend in my dream - you also had your name on the door, but so did Louis, so don't gloat. . And the CIA or the FBI or Homeland Security almost figured it out, but Louis stopped them - yeah, Louis! Imagine that? Louis helping one of us. Anyway, even though my lying threatens the firm, you guys can't get rid of me or you would be in trouble, although, I am not sure why that would stop you from firing me - Huh, funny how dreams can seem so real until you start telling someone then you realize how ridiculous they sound. Anyway, I woke up in a cold sweat. The only good thing about that dream was that I was living with that cute paralegal who keeps turning me down." Then we all go back to the way things were in the first few episodes (minus the secret), and, because Mike isn't psychic, we don't have Scotty, the British invasion, etc... and they can get rid of Hardman and make Harvey and/or Louis name partners some other way. 2 Link to comment
Crs97 February 26, 2015 Share February 26, 2015 I was telling hubby a version of that just today: the show ends with Mike in a chair lost in thought and Harvey gets his attention and repeats his question about Mike's resume saying Harvard Law School and asking him interview questions. Extremely lame but the only way I can picture everyone staying out of jail. 2 Link to comment
betsyboo March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 I noticed in the last several episodes, they said the secret was "Mike didn't go to law school." I feel like that is significantly different than "Mike isn't a lawyer." Which is how I took the first several seasons - everyone (Harvey, Mike, Donna, then Jessica) was knowingly committing fraud and putting their clients' lives at risk because if found out, all of the settlements, etc.would be thrown out. (I did often question why i watched the damn - excuse me - GODdamn show). So are the writers ret-conning Mike as someone who didn't go to law school but passed the bar? Which dramatically limits PSL liability? I mean, they still committed fraud if they advertised that Mike was a Harvard grad, and Mike (hacker) broke into the database, but overall their clients would not be at risk????????????? Am i thinking about this too much? Link to comment
Good Queen Jane March 12, 2015 Share March 12, 2015 How about this: The nursing home where Mike's grandmother died calls to tell him they are still holding a box with her papers. Mike goes through the box and finds a letter to him that had been delivered to Granny's address after he had moved out which she had meant to give him but had put away and forgotten about. It is from the State Bar Examiners telling him that, based on his hardship application and his scores on the recent bar exam he had taken, they were waiving the requirement of a law school diploma and that they were pleased to advise him that he was now admitted to the New York Bar. It is dated before his interview with Harvey. So Mike always was licensed to practice law in New York, he just didn't know it. Of course he didn't go to Harvard, but that isn't illegal or unethical. I know that in RL this couldn't happen, but in RL Mike would never be practicing law no matter how much of a special snowflake he is. Once Jessica found out, Mike would be put to work researching and brainstorming, but would never appear in court or meet with a client, which wouldn't make him much different from a RL associate in a big NY law firm. 5 Link to comment
Happytobehere March 14, 2015 Share March 14, 2015 I noticed in the last several episodes, they said the secret was "Mike didn't go to law school." I feel like that is significantly different than "Mike isn't a lawyer." Which is how I took the first several seasons - everyone (Harvey, Mike, Donna, then Jessica) was knowingly committing fraud and putting their clients' lives at risk because if found out, all of the settlements, etc.would be thrown out. (I did often question why i watched the damn - excuse me - GODdamn show). So are the writers ret-conning Mike as someone who didn't go to law school but passed the bar? Which dramatically limits PSL liability? I mean, they still committed fraud if they advertised that Mike was a Harvard grad, and Mike (hacker) broke into the database, but overall their clients would not be at risk????????????? Am i thinking about this too much? But Mike didn't go to law school. No retcon, was always true. I don't even think he finished undergrad because he got caught in the mess with his creep former friend while still there. Link to comment
betsyboo March 14, 2015 Share March 14, 2015 But Mike didn't go to law school. No retcon, was always true. I don't even think he finished undergrad because he got caught in the mess with his creep former friend while still there. Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear. I always thought the secret was "Mike didn't go to law school and took the bar for other people and isn't a lawyer." Now I'm hearing them constantly say only "Mike didn't go to law school." As if that is the only transgression. So have they retconned the original sin, so to speak, to make it more manageable and palatable to viewers? "Mike may have not gone to law school, but he really is licensed to be an attorney." Link to comment
kikaha March 15, 2015 Share March 15, 2015 Good Queen Jane -- excellent solution, at least for TV-land. Wonder if in reality the bar has that authority? Link to comment
Chicago Redshirt July 16, 2015 Author Share July 16, 2015 This season so far, they seemed to have toned down anything about the Secret. Four episodes in and there was just an allusion to being a fraud that took about a half-second. The problem is that there's almost certainly going to be a plot thread where Big Daddy Zane finds out about it or is a threat to find out about it. Also, realistically, with the impending marriage of Mike and Rachel, there should be some discussion of it and maybe even some cold feet. It's one thing to cover for the guy as someone you're dating or even living together with. It's another thing when it's your husband and the father of your future kids who could be going to jail (in Suitsverse) for practicing law without a degree, and where there's a piece of paper proving that you knew about Mike being a fraud for years. 1 Link to comment
Chicago Redshirt July 16, 2015 Author Share July 16, 2015 An incomplete (and possibly inaccurate, for which I apologize in advance) history of The Secret: Mike pretended to be a law student at Columbia to impress a young law student/intern. She and her boss eventually find out that he lied about this. Mike gets expelled from undergrad. He has a druggie friend, Trevor. Mike begins smoking pot, taking tests for people who want great LSAT scores (and possibly, also takes the Bar). In the pilot, Harvey and Mike come up with the wacky idea to have Mike work as a new associate for him despite his lack of law degree. Donna soon finds out. Early on, Mike helps a hacker, and as a thank-you, she manages to get him into Harvard's database and get him a diploma he didn't earn. (Hopefully she hacked whatever university and got him a college degree too, as well as hacked him LSAT scores and such). It's sort of ambiguous how Mike passes the bar. I think the notion was that the hacker also helped make it look like he had done so. As part of the real-world bar, you generally have to pass a written test about the law, and a character/fitness test. The latter would have you say all sorts of stuff about where you lived for the previous 10 years, where you got your degree from, and any criminal background/drug use etc. you have. Lying on any of the form would be grounds for being found unfit. I can't help but think that Mike lied about where he went to school, about not graduating undergrad, etc etc. So the schtick is that then-Pearson Hardman only hires Harvard Law graduates. We see that the associate class Mike in has somewhere between 10-15 people. Presumably, somewhere close to that many people get hired each year. Obviously not a single person who graduated the year Mike claimed to graduate would have seen or known him, nor any of the two classes before or two classes after. Nobody seems suspicious of this. There is drama from Mike hiding the secret from Jessica and Louis, and Mike is unable to pursue a relationship with Rachel because of the secret. Trevor and his girlfriend Jenny know that Mike is not a real law school grad or attorney. So, presumably did Mike's sainted grandmother, but if she realized the implications of it, there was no mention. Soon enough, Trevor decides to rat Mike out to Jessica because Mike started dating Trevor's then-ex girlfriend. Jessica keeps Mike on because reasons. Trevor just sort of faded away, but he could always resurface. So could Jenny. Mike eventually tells Rachel, who responds to the news in the way only Hollywood people might -- by slapping him a couple times and then having sex. Eventually Mike leaves the firm because he's offered a chance to work with an investment banker he'd helped and he would no longer have to be a fraud. That was short-lived. Mike got involved with an EVIL investment banker named Charles Forstman who made Mike sign a deal backstabbing his boss. When the backstabbed boss found out, he fired Mike. Rather than get another investment banking job or do any of the millions of things that someone with total recall and smarts could do with his life, Mike sought to come back to the firm. And rather than thank their lucky stars that they'd cut off their exposure if Mike gets shown to be a fraud, the firm brings him back. Harvey and Louis had an ethics professor who was himself unethical. In the course of dealing with him, the ethics professor realizes that Mike wasn't a student of his, though he claimed to be, and takes a bribe to stay quiet. Louis also makes a deal with the evil investment banker, which leads to a chain of events including Louis quitting. When Mike sees but doesn't recognize a key from Phi Beta Kappa (a legal honor society) that Louis has, Louis reaches the conclusion that the only reason Mike didn't recognize it was because Mike never was Phi Beta Kappa, and by extension, Mike is a fraud. Louis uses that information to bully and blackmail his way into a name partnership. Link to comment
Jediknight July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 In the pilot, Harvey and Mike come up with the wacky idea to have Mike work as a new associate for him despite his lack of law degree. Donna soon finds out. Early on, Mike helps a hacker, and as a thank-you, she manages to get him into Harvard's database and get him a diploma he didn't earn. (Hopefully she hacked whatever university and got him a college degree too, as well as hacked him LSAT scores and such). She didn't hack into a university and get Mike a college degree. Jessica mentioned that while Mike may have graduated from Harvard Law, there is no record of him graduating from any other school. So the hacker just gave him a Harvard diploma, and put him in the database, but didn't put him in any other school as graduating so that he could get into Harvard Law. So the records show that he went from high school to Harvard Law. The secret and how the show didn't do the smart thing, is why I think the show has to end with the firm crashing down. Had they just had Harvey hire Mike as a consultant, and he went to night classes, that would have been fine. As a consultant, hey Mike can work on any case without a law degree. And they could throw it in the firm's face that the "Only hire from Harvard" rule was crap, and Mike's better than everyone else, and he graduated from night school. Link to comment
Mars477 July 17, 2015 Share July 17, 2015 Hell, Harvey could've made Mike his pet intern, or hired him as the firm's private investigator, and then worked with him as Mike worked on his law degree. But I guess that's too complicated. 2 Link to comment
Chicago Redshirt August 7, 2015 Author Share August 7, 2015 I would love it if they had Mike come clean as a fraud, taking the hit for all the various people who knew he in fact is a fraud. And then either moving forward to Magical Christmasland where he is forgiven by prosecutors and the bar for being a fraud and continues where we basically are, or he serves his time, gets out, graduates law school and becomes a real lawyer by hanging up his own shingle, perhaps with Harvey, perhaps with Rachel or whatever. Because let's face it: Mike doesn't believe in the work that PSL does. He's always wanting to fight the big corporations and for the underdog. Having Ross & Zane going up against Pearson Specter Litt all the time could be interesting. I think remaking the show by getting rid of the Secret, getting rid of the boring-ass firm drama and making Mike more rootable (and giving Rachel something substantive to do) would be a huge step forward. 1 Link to comment
Chicago Redshirt August 13, 2015 Author Share August 13, 2015 From the episode thread on Mea Culpa: I honestly don't have the hang ups on the Mike/lawyer thing. It's part of the shows DNA. It's not something they came up with to stur up drama. It's always been there. I just accept it and move on. It will always be an issue whether Mike leaves the firm or not. As Jessica has already said in the past, she might as well get her money's worth out of him. I get that it's part of the show's DNA, but the trouble is that the Powers that Be have at this point taken suspension of disbelief past its breaking point while simultaneously undermining pretty much all the lead characters. Even at the start, it is a tough pill to swallow that no one realized Mike was not a Harvard Law grad. How did Mike think he was going to pull it off? Why would Harvey suggest it knowing the ramifications if caught? But then as the show progressed we learned that Mike had previously lied about being a law student and got found out, and that he hasn't even graduated from college. Then we see all sorts of people coming to learn the secret. When those in the know were just Mike, Harvey and Donna, maybe you could think that you could get away with it. But now we're up to 10 or so people, including people who are definitely untrustworthy (Trevor, ethically challenged Harvard prof, Louis), it seems time to reconsider. Also, with every passing day, the stakes are higher. If it had come out after a week, a month, maybe even a year of Mike being a fraud, there would have been limited damage since Mike would have been just an associate and would not have a big role on any given case. But now, when the secret comes out, hundreds of clients at a minimum will be lining up to sue PSL if/when it gets out. Even if they got a good result, the fact that PSL billed him at say, $400/hour, when he was a non-lawyer is an issue. And for any cases he may have lost, it's textbook malpractice. Hundreds of opponents will probably be looking to revisit any deals that they reached where Mike had any involvement. People will be asking when did they know Mike was a fraud, and the answer won't be pretty. At least as portrayed, this could bring the firm to its knees if it got out. So we are effectively being asked to believe Mike is a sociopath who is willing to gamble with the professional and financial lives of Jessica, his best friend Harvey, his fiancee Rachel, and hundreds of other employees at PSL as well as clients. Harvey and Jessica are willing to let him risk everything they've built because he's that special. Rachel is willing to risk seeing the man she loves go to jail and deal with her family's disappointment at her foolish choice.\ The show is trying to have it both ways: our heroes are brilliant attorneys capable of achieving greatness who at the same time have the stupidest blind spot in allowing Mike Ross to continue as an employee when his presence contaminates everything they do. 4 Link to comment
Evangeline September 14, 2015 Share September 14, 2015 The premise of this show should have been (and what I thought it was before I started watching) that Mike did not go to law school, but had passed and become a member of the bar (some states allow this -- even if New York doesn't, I think they'd be better off just pretending New York does as part of the premise of the show), or, alternatively, that Mike went to some no-name law school and then got a job at a firm where everyone went to Harvard. You would have some drama to work with, but wouldn't prevent them from moving on from the premise. The civil and criminal liability from that premise is vastly different. There would be no issue of practicing law without a license. It would just be equivalent to lying on a resume, but you already would have the state bar's stamp of approval that he is qualified to practice law as much as a Harvard grad is. Some hacking and forging of records would create some liabilities too, but still, different ball park. Given the initial premise, what they should have done instead is either have Mike immediately complete his education and pass the bar as soon as possible (basically changing the story line into the above scenario), or limit him to a non-lawyer capacity. The thing that I think most don't realize is that there is really not much that a lawyer can do that a non-lawyer can't do -- first year associates in law firms are often not lawyers for up to 9 months after they start working at the firm as an associate, and summer associates in law firms are never lawyers. But there is often little difference in the work they do (and what they bill their clients for -- in fact, I don't think my billing rate changed at all when I went from being a non-lawyer who could not practice law to a lawyer who could practice law). I don't actually know if there is any rule against calling a non-lawyer an associate if they have not gone to law school for any period of time, but there is absolutely no requirement that the title "associate" be limited to lawyers. The things that you can't do as a lawyer is very limited. He couldn't sign pleadings or argue in court -- but he could prepare the pleadings, come up with the strategy, and just have Harvey sign his name and be the one to show up in court. He can't provide legal advice to a client, but he can meet with clients, gather information, prepare letters to clients providing legal advice, etc., and just have Harvey sign off on it. You'd have all the same drama, just with less illegality. And it would require more Harvey, and I don't want to see Mike arguing in court or advising clients anyway, so win/win. 1 Link to comment
Superpole2000 September 3, 2016 Share September 3, 2016 I agree with the above suggestions, but I think the show creators would have taken this outcome (6 seasons and counting) when they conceived the pilot episode. The inevitable sad ending isn't the important thing. Link to comment
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