All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Rootbeer]

27 minutes ago, ch1 said:

Secrets and Lies shouldn’t have been on a best episode list at all.  The characterization of everyone involved was terrible and over the top.

It was the WORST episode, IMO.  It did no favors for any of the characters and it was totally not in keeping with the tenor of the show.  Any s script that makes a joke out of a child being sexually molested is automatically not a good one, IMO.

There are others I didn't think belonged including the out of the ER episodes with Benton and the Mark/Doug road trip.  Decent episodes but not top notch.

The episode where Carter and Lucy are bickering from one end of Chicago to the other looking for the guy whose daughter needs a transfusion would also not be on my list.  It was nails on a chalkboard to me and highlighted just how awful those characters were when paired.

I think the pilot makes the top 25 if only because it was so unique for its time.  I remember watching it when it first aired and thinking, 'Wow!  This is different!'  Also, having gone to med school and done a residency, I was impressed that they got the characterizations right for the most part.  Benton WAS a surgeon, they didn't have to tell us, he just was.  Doug WAS a pediatrician, his entire demeanor fit the profile.  Mark actually was more of a family practitioner personality wise, but, I think portraying him as an adrenaline junkie, as many ER docs were back then, wouldn't have worked to anchor a series.  There are some ER docs with Mark-like qualities out there, too.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Cloud9Shopper]

16 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

It was the WORST episode, IMO.  It did no favors for any of the characters and it was totally not in keeping with the tenor of the show.  Any s script that makes a joke out of a child being sexually molested is automatically not a good one, IMO.

There are others I didn't think belonged including the out of the ER episodes with Benton and the Mark/Doug road trip.  Decent episodes but not top notch.

The episode where Carter and Lucy are bickering from one end of Chicago to the other looking for the guy whose daughter needs a transfusion would also not be on my list.  It was nails on a chalkboard to me and highlighted just how awful those characters were when paired.

I think the pilot makes the top 25 if only because it was so unique for its time.  I remember watching it when it first aired and thinking, 'Wow!  This is different!'  Also, having gone to med school and done a residency, I was impressed that they got the characterizations right for the most part.  Benton WAS a surgeon, they didn't have to tell us, he just was.  Doug WAS a pediatrician, his entire demeanor fit the profile.  Mark actually was more of a family practitioner personality wise, but, I think portraying him as an adrenaline junkie, as many ER docs were back then, wouldn't have worked to anchor a series.  There are some ER docs with Mark-like qualities out there, too.

Don’t forget the whole doctors going through a patient’s belongings and thinking it’s funny. That episode is a good reminder of how I will always love ER but thank God County isn’t a real hospital. Between employees going through patients’ stuff, doctors showing up to work drunk, explosions, attendings banging med students, hostage situations...I would not trust most of the ER staff to save my life. 

I didn’t like The Good Fight either. 

I have honestly had a hard time finding another medical show I like as much as ER. I like New Amsterdam but it’s not in the same class by any stretch. Even when it was going down the drain in late years I’d still watch it over Chicago Med or something. 

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Don’t forget the whole doctors going through a patient’s belongings and thinking it’s funny. That episode is a good reminder of how I will always love ER but thank God County isn’t a real hospital. Between employees going through patients’ stuff, doctors showing up to work drunk, explosions, attendings banging med students, hostage situations...I would not trust most of the ER staff to save my life. 

I didn’t like The Good Fight either. 

I have honestly had a hard time finding another medical show I like as much as ER. I like New Amsterdam but it’s not in the same class by any stretch. Even when it was going down the drain in late years I’d still watch it over Chicago Med or something. 

I New Amsterdam the first couple of seasons, mainly because the lead actor is gorgeous, but it was so completely fabricated and false, I just couldn't stay with it.  Nothing rang true, the characters, the hospital, the stories.  ER had plenty of moments that were purely theatrical, but it's basic structure and atmosphere was reality-based and fairly believable.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I New Amsterdam the first couple of seasons, mainly because the lead actor is gorgeous, but it was so completely fabricated and false, I just couldn't stay with it.  Nothing rang true, the characters, the hospital, the stories.  ER had plenty of moments that were purely theatrical, but it's basic structure and atmosphere was reality-based and fairly believable.

I agree, to me, Ryan Eggold is gorgeous in a way I didn't find Clooney. He's more mature and kind but unbelievable. Working in a medical environment though, I like to pretend I could work for him. ; )

Chicago Med is a soap opera with bad acting by many and silly scripts. I think Oliver Platt does what he can with it but they don't give him much or for long. Yaya Dacosta (?) the actress they have batting long eyelashes and acting like she is always in distress along with the actress who plays Natalie. She gets some bad scripts too and I can't tell ability from just what they have to deal with. I stopped watching 2 years ago on a regular basis so I can't judge now.

ER spoiled me for most of these shows, the quality even filmed  back then is so much better than now. Yes our real ER I worked in some times had some drama and affairs and jealousy and rebellion but ER cast mainly dealt with ER people which isn't usually the case. Most don't marry or date each other like that or for long. You do get close to your coworkers though and I hated how Carol never really kept in touch. Maybe a card once?

Edited August 1, 2021 by debraran

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I agree, to me, Ryan Eggold is gorgeous in a way I didn't find Clooney. He's more mature and kind but unbelievable. Working in a medical environment though, I like to pretend I could work for him. ; )

Chicago Med is a soap opera with bad acting by many and silly scripts. I think Oliver Platt does what he can with it but they don't give him much or for long. Yaya Dacosta (?) the actress they have batting long eyelashes and acting like she is always in distress along with the actress who plays Natalie. She gets some bad scripts too and I can't tell ability from just what they have to deal with. I stopped watching 2 years ago on a regular basis so I can't judge now.

ER spoiled me for most of these shows, the quality even filmed  back then is so much better than now. Yes our real ER I worked in some times had some drama and affairs and jealousy and rebellion but ER cast mainly dealt with ER people which isn't usually the case. Most don't marry or date each other like that or for long. You do get close to your coworkers though and I hated how Carol never really kept in touch. Maybe a card once?

I remember seeing Yaya on ANTM a long time ago (S2 maybe). I have always wanted to check out Med consistently (I’ve only seen an episode here or there) to see if I’d enjoy it. But I think I’m going to try The Resident after I finish ER. 

I think when Jeanie comes back in S14 that Haleh mentions the twins are in third grade now. So it sounds like maybe Carol does at least send a Christmas card. 

[Rootbeer]

27 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I remember seeing Yaya on ANTM a long time ago (S2 maybe). I have always wanted to check out Med consistently (I’ve only seen an episode here or there) to see if I’d enjoy it. But I think I’m going to try The Resident after I finish ER. 

I think when Jeanie comes back in S14 that Haleh mentions the twins are in third grade now. So it sounds like maybe Carol does at least send a Christmas card. 

I tried The Resident because a friend wanted me to check out the medical details and because I'd really liked Matt Czuchry on The Good Wife.  I couldn't even make it all the way through the first episode.  An incompetent surgeon botched a surgery, killed a patient and put the blame on someone else while the entire OR staff just stood there silently and let it happen, doing nothing to save the patient or contradict the surgeon.  All before the first commercial.  

I thought maybe the sequence was part of someone's nightmare, but, no, it appeared the audience was supposed to accept this as plausible.  I didn't make it to the second commercial break.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:36 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

 I love Morris and Claudia still but Morris definitely needs to step back a bit with her job. 

I am just getting into the episodes with them. They seem like a good couple. Although before she showed up I thought they were going to set Morris up with that sex worker who came in with her mom in one ep and then came back on her own a little while later.

On 7/31/2021 at 11:27 AM, Rootbeer said:

ER had plenty of moments that were purely theatrical, but it's basic structure and atmosphere was reality-based and fairly believable.

My rewatch is almost coming to an end and one thing I really liked about the show especially the early seasons is the production design. I have never worked in a hospital but I have been in a ton of government buildings. And the show really nailed it with things like crap everywhere, with most of it probably stuff that had been there forever. And things like bad/peeling paint and stained ceiling tiles. I don't think I have ever seen another show with stained ceiling tiles.

Oh and speaking of season 15 there was an episode I watched last night where the Jumbomart staff won the lottery. One of the winners was super stressed about it and kept coming to see a resident whose name I don't remember. At the end the guy have the doctor a paper bag of something, but I don't think they showed what it was. Anyone have any idea?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[WendyCR72]

If anyone here still buys DVDs, I read on the TV Shows On DVD Facebook page that the complete series of the show is being re-released as a 45-disc set. (The original in the long green case holding the original box sets was apparently 90 discs or so.)

It will apparently be released on October 5th.

(But the original set is still available, albeit with more discs but costing less, so this just seems weird, to me!)

[debraran]

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am just getting into the episodes with them. They seem like a good couple. Although before she showed up I thought they were going to set Morris up with that sex worker who came in with her mom in one ep and then came back on her own a little while later.

My rewatch is almost coming to an end and one thing I really liked about the show especially the early seasons is the production design. I have never worked in a hospital but I have been in a ton of government buildings. And the show really nailed it with things like crap everywhere, with most of it probably stuff that had been there forever. And things like bad/peeling paint and stained ceiling tiles. I don't think I have ever seen another show with stained ceiling tiles.

Oh and speaking of season 15 there was an episode I watched last night where the Jumbomart staff won the lottery. One of the winners was super stressed about it and kept coming to see a resident whose name I don't remember. At the end the guy have the doctor a paper bag of something, but I don't think they showed what it was. Anyone have any idea?

OMG, I loved that too, re the ceiling tiles. Every hospital or office i have worked in had those. Every little detail they had, a little peeling paint, dirty door jam, I didn't think anyone else noticed (but of course they did : )

I vaguely remember Love is a Battlefield episode, I don't remember that bag but I remember someone making a crack about Slim Jims and Morris buying a van.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/2/2021 at 5:27 AM, debraran said:

OMG, I loved that too, re the ceiling tiles. Every hospital or office i have worked in had those. Every little detail they had, a little peeling paint, dirty door jam, I didn't think anyone else noticed (but of course they did : )

I vaguely remember Love is a Battlefield episode, I don't remember that bag but I remember someone making a crack about Slim Jims and Morris buying a van.

I thought it might be Slim Jims but it was weird that I don't think they showed it. It was also weird that my wife has been rewatching Burn Notice and like a day or two after we watched the ER episode I saw she was watching a BN episode where the same Jumbo Mart guy played a Libyan intelligence service guy.

As for the ceiling tiles, I used to work for a company that did mechanical engineering design for buildings, which included lots of retrofits. So I have spent a lot of time popping up ceiling tiles, so the stained tiles was a great touch. I also liked how especially in the early seasons before they opened up the admit area there was always random ladders in the hallways. Since you know a place like that would always be doing maintenance, and with their budget issues they probably wouldn't be doing maintenance until something breaks. Although I did think the bit about contractors falling through the ceiling (which they did more than once) was stupid.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[Cloud9Shopper]

Watched three of the last four episodes tonight (15-19 to 15-21) so just going to throw out a bunch of random thoughts here instead of going episode by episode:

The change in the opener/“previously on ER” music that started in 15-19 was an interesting choice. But nothing tops the original opener. I know it’s weird that a theme means that much but the newer openers don’t draw me in like the original. 

For me no cast of ER will have chemistry like the OG crew of Carol, Doug, Carter and Peter in Old Times. And while I never shipped Carol and Doug before, rewatching their reunion (thanks YouTube!) a couple weeks back and seeing that they ended up happy and stable together has me changing my mind. And I love that in these last few episodes with the OGs that they go first in the credits. 

I liked the different cuts between the transplants in Old Times.

I wasn’t really a fan of the cut between Neela in the airport and earlier in the day in 15-20. Overdone on the show by that point. 

I wish that the locker name tag wall had come earlier in the series. Even though I’m not an Abby fan I could kind of see the point of having her put her tag on the wall because MT was in the main cast for so long. But Neela? Really? Like I wish the wall had come along in S8 or S11. There would have been way more symbolism in having Mark or Carter or Benton put their tag up there. 
 

Speaking of Abby that cameo was so weird. She really puts no effort into watching children. Reminds me of my boss in the morning meeting when he says “My kids are really loud today!” Maybe try parenting them and quieting them down so they’re not yelling for a whole meeting? I’m pretty sure I can dog sit better than Abby can babysit.

Awwww 15-21 was so...no pun intended...feel good? I was welling up in a happy way. I loved the heart camp, and I love watching Morris and Claudia be precious together. 

God Brenner is the worst. He has a few decent moments with kids and then he turns into a total douchebag. You’d swear Neela had died or something.

Neela reads directions on a printed map and communicates with the ER via AIM. There’s your “damn I’m old” observations of this stretch of episodes, although by the 2000s, my family and I were printing Mapquest directions. I did use AIM for a long time though. 

I guess the Banfields adopted that baby? I do hope so. I love those two almost as much as Morris and Claudia, albeit I never warmed to Cate as a member of the staff. But I think it’s nice she and her husband have such a strong marriage otherwise and I hope they got the family they want.

I’m finishing it off next weekend guys! Planning to buy the retrospective on Prime Video, watch that and then watch the finale, which I haven’t seen since it aired. It’s going to be a sad/melancholy evening. 

Finally, I will come back and delete this part of my post if it’s not allowed (although I checked the forum rules and I think what I’m doing is fine), but I started writing fanfic a few months ago after not doing it (badly) since I was a teenager around S7 or S8 or so. Not sure if anyone here cares about fanfic but I love showing my stuff off so here’s a few things:

I Promise You I Will Learn from My Mistakes  (Coburn-centered, work in progress. TW for lengthy alcoholism discussion.) 

What to Expect When You’re Not Expecting (Canon divergent one shot about Neela and Gallant; may make this into a longfic but I’m not sure if I’ll ever have the brain power to push it further) 

No title, but here’s an Archie/Claudia ficlet Fluffy. From my Tumblr; less than 300 words. I answered a prompt in the ER fandom discord. I had nothing on my clipboard at the time (you had to take the last thing on your clipboard and that was your prompt), so I credited the person I took the prompt from. Yes there will be more fluffy one shots for my late season OTP. I’m going all in on the happy stuff with these two lovebirds. 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper
Typos are bad

[ESS]

39 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Watched three of the last four episodes tonight (15-19 to 15-21) so just going to throw out a bunch of random thoughts here instead of going episode by episode:

The change in the opener/“previously on ER” music that started in 15-19 was an interesting choice. But nothing tops the original opener. I know it’s weird that a theme means that much but the newer openers don’t draw me in like the original. 

For me no cast of ER will have chemistry like the OG crew of Carol, Doug, Carter and Peter in Old Times. And while I never shipper Carol and Doug before, rewatching their reunion (thanks YouTube!) a couple weeks back and seeing that they ended up happy and stable together has me changing my mind. And I love that in these last few episodes with the OGs that they go first in the credits. 

I liked the different cuts between the transplants in Old Times.

I wasn’t really a fan of the cut between Neela in the airport and earlier in the day in 15-20. Overdone on the show by that point. 

I wish that the locker name tag wall had come earlier in the series. Even though I’m not an Abby fan I could kind of see the point of having her put her tag on the wall because MT was in the main cast for so long. But Neela? Really? Like I wish the wall had come along in S8 or S11. There would have been way more symbolism in having Mark or Carter or Benton put their tag up there. 
 

Speaking of Abby that cameo was so weird. She really puts no effort into watching children. Reminds me of my boss in the morning meeting when he says “My kids are really loud today!” Maybe try parenting them and quieting them down so they’re not yelling for a whole meeting? I’m pretty sure I can dog sit better than Abby can babysit.

Awwww 15-21 was so...no pun intended...feel good? I was welling up in a happy way. I loved the heart camp, and I love watching Morris and Claudia be precious together. 

God Brenner is the worst. He has a few decent moments with kids and then he turns into a total douchebag. You’d swear Neela had died or something.

Neela reads directions on a printed map and communicates with the ER via AIM. There’s your “damn I’m old” observations of this stretch of episodes, although by the 2000s, my family and I were printing Mapquest directions. I did use AIM for a long time though. 

I guess the Banfields adopted that baby? I do hope so. I love those two almost as much as Morris and Claudia, albeit I never warmed to Cate as a member of the staff. But I think it’s nice she and her husband have such a strong marriage otherwise and I hope they got the family they want.

I’m finishing it off next weekend guys! Planning to buy the retrospective on Prime Video, watch that and then watch the finale, which I haven’t seen since it aired. It’s going to be a sad/melancholy evening. 

Finally, I will come back and delete this part of my post if it’s not allowed (although I checked the forum rules and I think what I’m doing is fine), but I started writing fanfic a few months ago after not doing it (badly) since I was a teenager around S7 or S8 or so. Not sure if anyone here cares about fanfic but I love showing my stuff off so here’s a few things:

I Promise You I Will Learn from My Mistakes  (Coburn-centered, work in progress. TW for lengthy alcoholism discussion.) 

What to Expect When You’re Not Expecting (Canon divergent one shot about Neela and Gallant; may make this into a longfic but I’m not sure if I’ll ever have the brain power to push it further) 

No title, but here’s an Archie/Claudia ficlet Fluffy. From my Tumblr; less than 300 words. I answered a prompt in the ER fandom discord. I had nothing on my clipboard at the time (you had to take the last thing on your clipboard and that was your prompt), so I credited the person I took the prompt from. Yes there will be more fluffy one shots for my late season OTP. I’m going all in on the happy stuff with these two lovebirds. 

 

 

 

Love your post! so glad someone else loves Claudia & Archie I love(d) them too. So glad you write a fanfic on them I really wish they had more on them. I'd love a multi chaptered fic centered on them as they are adorable!! I also love the Banfield's too (I have to admit it took me a bit to get used to Cate as well and that says something).. and personally it was awesome move to have Angela and her husband work together and their characters be husband & wife on screen as well. 

FYI: I just read your Archie & Claudia fic loved it...please do more!! 

Edited August 8, 2021 by ESS

[Cloud9Shopper]

20 minutes ago, ESS said:

Love your post! so glad someone else loves Claudia & Archie I love(d) them too. So glad you write a fanfic on them I really wish they had more on them. I'd love a multi chaptered fic centered on them as they are adorable!! I also love the Banfield's too (I have to admit it took me a bit to get used to Cate as well and that says something).. and personally it was awesome move to have Angela and her husband work together and their characters be husband & wife on screen as well. 

FYI: I just read your Archie & Claudia fic loved it...please do more!! 

It will happen; I promise! I’m finishing a grad school class this coming week and I will have a month off (the school I’m in runs in quarters) where I’m hoping to spend some time with my fics. I actually get to originate their ship tag on AO3 so I’m pretty excited for that. Have a few ideas already for chapters...planning a oneshot/ficlet compilation. :) Thank you for supporting me! 

[ESS]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

It will happen; I promise! I’m finishing a grad school class this coming week and I will have a month off (the school I’m in runs in quarters) where I’m hoping to spend some time with my fics. I actually get to originate their ship tag on AO3 so I’m pretty excited for that. Have a few ideas already for chapters...planning a oneshot/ficlet compilation. :) Thank you for supporting me! 

That's great!! So glad you'll be able to write more on Archie Claudia. I'm trying to write more on my fic as well for another fandom, but the problem is the couple I ship/love isn't that popular in the fandom so it's difficult for me to get motivated sometimes and I only have a few readers that actually read the story. I'm not on A03 anymore, but I'll still be able to read the story and leave kudos I think. 

You're welcome for the support. I'm happy to find another person who writes fanfiction and who ships Archie & Claudia together.

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 hours ago, ESS said:

That's great!! So glad you'll be able to write more on Archie Claudia. I'm trying to write more on my fic as well for another fandom, but the problem is the couple I ship/love isn't that popular in the fandom so it's difficult for me to get motivated sometimes and I only have a few readers that actually read the story. I'm not on A03 anymore, but I'll still be able to read the story and leave kudos I think. 

You're welcome for the support. I'm happy to find another person who writes fanfiction and who ships Archie & Claudia together.

You can leave kudos and comment as a guest, yes. I’ll take the non-ER/general fic conversation to PM so we don’t derail the thread. :) 

[ESS]

34 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

You can leave kudos and comment as a guest, yes. I’ll take the non-ER/general fic conversation to PM so we don’t derail the thread. :) 

Yeah that's what I thought - Thanks and I totally get that...I got your message. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Last night I watched the season 15 episode where Doug and Carol show up. It was funny that they had Doug ask Neela and Sam about people who still work at county. Since if Carol asked it would be a lot more soap opera like. Since she would have asked about Luka, and Sam could have said they used to be in a relationship, and he got married to Abby (the nurse who delivered Carol's babies) and moved to Boston. Although really Doug should have asked if either of them had the opportunity to work with his best friend Mark. But then I guess he would have had to explain why he wasn't at the funeral.

Also it seemed super ridiculous to me that Neela spent easily a whole day flying and then did a freaking heart transplant. Also why was Sam wearing scrubs in Seattle? It's not like it was a short trip on a helicopter directly from he hospital. And she didn't assist on the heart removal. 

But it was funny to hear Juliana Margulies mess up the name Spokane.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Although really Doug should have asked if either of them had the opportunity to work with his best friend Mark.

I guess he assumed they were only there after Mark died.

They omitted both he and Carol asking about Corday, someone that Neela would have known and been able to answer that was someone she knew.

[Cloud9Shopper]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Last night I watched the season 15 episode where Doug and Carol show up. It was funny that they had Doug ask Neela and Sam about people who still work at county. Since if Carol asked it would be a lot more soap opera like. Since she would have asked about Luka, and Sam could have said they used to be in a relationship, and he got married to Abby (the nurse who delivered Carol's babies) and moved to Boston. Although really Doug should have asked if either of them had the opportunity to work with his best friend Mark. But then I guess he would have had to explain why he wasn't at the funeral.

Also it seemed super ridiculous to me that Neela spent easily a whole day flying and then did a freaking heart transplant. Also why was Sam wearing scrubs in Seattle? It's not like it was a short trip on a helicopter directly from he hospital. And she didn't assist on the heart removal. 

But it was funny to hear Juliana Margulies mess up the name Spokane.

It’s been brought up a few times on here about Doug and Carol and Mark’s funeral but I’ve started to wonder how much they really kept in touch with Mark after Carol went to Seattle. I know we all like to think all the characters stayed best friends forever after they left, but in reality, lots of people don’t stay close to former coworkers. I’m not saying it never happens, but Doug doesn’t even know that people like Kerry and Peter aren’t at County anymore. We know Carol sent Christmas cards I believe, but not if the relationship she had with the nurses went beyond that once she was gone.

On Reddit we had a similar discussion about why people like Susan and Kerry weren’t at Abby and Luka’s wedding. It’s not that unfeasible to think that they weren’t all that close or lost touch once Susan and Kerry left. Or at least not so close that they’d rearrange their schedules to go to the wedding.  

Even in Neela’s last episode, Abby treated Neela’s phone call like an inconvenience to her rather than being happy her supposed best friend was calling. (My opinion/interpretation of course.) 

I know my thoughts are unpopular about the funeral but for all we know, the characters could have all thought fondly of their time at County but not stayed friends forever. I have worked with some nice people in my career, but once I left the company we generally only interacted through Facebook likes and an off-chance we ran into each other at Walmart or something. 

[Bastet]

27 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

It’s been brought up a few times on here about Doug and Carol and Mark’s funeral but I’ve started to wonder how much they really kept in touch with Mark after Carol went to Seattle.

I'm sure communication faded fairly quickly, but the relationship they had back in the County days was such that Carol and Doug, or at least Doug, would have felt obliged to attend Mark's funeral.  People feel a real tug about such things.  General catching up, shit like weddings - that's easy to let go of in a new set of circumstances.  But someone you spent time with socially (not just work friends) and shared confidences with for quite some time kicks off just a couple of years later and the family holds some sort of funeral or memorial?  You feel the need to go as a matter of respect, especially where you knew the deceased's family.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I'm sure communication faded fairly quickly, but the relationship they had back in the County days was such that Carol and Doug, or at least Doug, would have felt obliged to attend Mark's funeral.  People feel a real tug about such things.  General catching up, shit like weddings - that's easy to let go of in a new set of circumstances.  But someone you spent time with socially (not just work friends) and shared confidences with for quite some time kicks off just a couple of years later and the family holds some sort of funeral or memorial?  You feel the need to go as a matter of respect, especially where you knew the deceased's family.

I can see your point. But I guess when you’re living across the country by then there may be one of many reasons they couldn’t go. It doesn’t seem Doug and Carol had any more kids so I guess she wasn’t super pregnant and unable to fly. Maybe they couldn’t get away from their jobs, or maybe one of the kids was sick and not up to a plane ride, maybe they couldn’t find child care. (The twins were only around 2 or 3; I can’t imagine bringing kids that young to a former coworker’s funeral.) Maybe Carol’s mom or a close relative of Doug’s died around the same time. We’ll never know for sure and can speculate all day until we settle on our favorite theory, but like I said I understand what you mean too.

One thing that was mentioned eons ago on this board that I wish they had done was at least mention condolences were sent. When Pratt died I remember them saying that Carter, Chen and Weaver all sent flowers or another gift. So maybe they could have at least said that Carol and Doug called Elizabeth or that they sent flowers or a donation in Mark’s name or something. Alas. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I'm sure communication faded fairly quickly, but the relationship they had back in the County days was such that Carol and Doug, or at least Doug, would have felt obliged to attend Mark's funeral.  People feel a real tug about such things.  General catching up, shit like weddings - that's easy to let go of in a new set of circumstances.  But someone you spent time with socially (not just work friends) and shared confidences with for quite some time kicks off just a couple of years later and the family holds some sort of funeral or memorial?  You feel the need to go as a matter of respect, especially where you knew the deceased's family.

The writers dropped the ball there. They were VERY close, they traveled together, fought, played, shared deep confidences, met parents. No way would he not send something or they should have had it at least mentioned. I doubt Clooney even if he didn't want to steal the spotlight from Anthony, he could be mentioned for pete;s sake. He meant nothing to him anymore? I doubt it.

I understand losing touch but I was never as close as they were to each other with a coworker that left.

Edited August 8, 2021 by debraran

[Bastet]

14 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

We’ll never know for sure and can speculate all day until we settle on our favorite theory,

Do we need to speculate -- wasn't it confirmed long ago the actors were asked to appear (like Eric LaSalle, Michael Ironside, and whoever else showed up) but declined, feeling the characters' presence would be distracting?

(I find their absence far more distracting.  I think a scene where someone is catching up with them, hearing about their spawn, jobs, etc. would indeed have been distracting; the actors chose to leave, the characters are gone, best wishes to them and the show has moved on, etc.  But just being shown in a pan shot like the other returnees?  Not distracting.  Clearly not being part of the assembled mourners?  Distracting.)

The writers knew Doug and Carol, especially Doug, would have been there under the circumstances, and thus asked the actors, who declined.  Unless I am completely misremembering, that actor availability, not character circumstances, is why they weren't.

[Hiyo]

None of the characters seemed to keep in touch after they left County. Jeanie was close to Kerry but had no idea Kerry moved to Florida. Doug and Carol seemed to have no idea who was still at the hospital and who wasn’t. Benton had no idea Carter had gotten married. I doubt anyone knew Elizabeth was back in the US much less teaching at Duke until she interviewed Neela.

The show ended in 2009, you’d think most of them would at least have reconnected a bit, even if superficially, on social media, but I guess not…

[Cloud9Shopper]

3 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

None of the characters seemed to keep in touch after they left County. Jeanie was close to Kerry but had no idea Kerry moved to Florida. Doug and Carol seemed to have no idea who was still at the hospital and who wasn’t. Benton had no idea Carter had gotten married. I doubt anyone knew Elizabeth was back in the US much less teaching at Duke until she interviewed Neela.

The show ended in 2009, you’d think most of them would at least have reconnected a bit, even if superficially, on social media, but I guess not…

I like to think maybe they did connect via Facebook at some point even if they weren’t otherwise BFFs. I have some former coworkers on my page but our interactions tend to be limited to occasional likes and comments rather than best friend type of interactions. 
 

I remember being surprised in 15x16 when Sam mentions Abby emailed because I never thought Abby and Sam were friends, unless that happened offscreen. I’d imagine working crazy shifts in healthcare doesn’t leave a lot of time for bonding with former coworkers, especially when everyone has families and things, but that’s the case for a lot of jobs I’m sure. 

[Hiyo]

Considering how Benton showed up for Mark’s funeral* and nobody would confuse them for being friends at all, Abby and Sam emailing each other doesn’t seem so far fetched.
 

*Granted, he was probably there more for Elizabeth, but still.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Hiyo

[debraran]

The only person I heard they had asked and declined was George Clooney. He said in many interviews he thought if he went to the funeral it would take away from Anthony Edwards time when everyone would be talking about him coming back. That has been talked about a lot but I never understood why mentioning him or pretending he called or showing flowers wasn’t done because it’s not even close to the same thing but it’s something

[Kel Varnsen]

The thing is, I can kind of buy Ross not being there. Mark was totally the kind of guy who wouldn't reach out and tell Doug he was dying. So after he died, Ross might have found out about the funeral on very short notice. Flying across the country on short notice, when you have 2 little kids and no family where you live could be difficult. It is also entirely possible he didn't find out Mark died until after the funeral. Because who would tell him?

That said the episode I just watched would have been a perfect time for Dough to mention Mark, ask Sam and Neela if they worked with him, and say he was sorry he couldn't make the funeral. That would make more sense than him asking about Weaver or Anspaugh.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The thing is, I can kind of buy Ross not being there. Mark was totally the kind of guy who wouldn't reach out and tell Doug he was dying. So after he died, Ross might have found out about the funeral on very short notice. Flying across the country on short notice, when you have 2 little kids and no family where you live could be difficult. It is also entirely possible he didn't find out Mark died until after the funeral. Because who would tell him?

That said the episode I just watched would have been a perfect time for Dough to mention Mark, ask Sam and Neela if they worked with him, and say he was sorry he couldn't make the funeral. That would make more sense than him asking about Weaver or Anspaugh.

I could see Mark very specifically telling Elizabeth that he didn't want a big service and to tell people who had to travel long distances that they shouldn't come.  There really were not that many people at the graveside service that we saw.

  For that matter, Elizabeth's mother knew Mark pretty well and she was nowhere to be seen, either, and wouldn't have the excuse of having lost touch.  It would've been nice to have had a line or two, perhaps that a scholarship had been set up in Mark's memory and Doug and Carol had made a generous contribution.  

[Cloud9Shopper]

Have a question about Old Times that I forgot to post the other night. Before Carter’s surgery, he’s showing Benton a picture of Kem and Benton laughs and says he can’t believe Carter married a sister. Does anyone know what he meant by that? I’m Catholic, so to me “sister” means nun or something about a religious order but I’m guessing that’s not what Benton meant.

I also did like how protective he was of Carter’s surgery during this episode and insisting everyone go over the safety checklist before the transplant. 

[Rootbeer]

9 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Have a question about Old Times that I forgot to post the other night. Before Carter’s surgery, he’s showing Benton a picture of Kem and Benton laughs and says he can’t believe Carter married a sister. Does anyone know what he meant by that? I’m Catholic, so to me “sister” means nun or something about a religious order but I’m guessing that’s not what Benton meant.

I also did like how protective he was of Carter’s surgery during this episode and insisting everyone go over the safety checklist before the transplant. 

'Sister' is the colloquial term for woman of color, very common in the AA community.  Benton was surprised that Kem was black.

[Hiyo]

I’m not American and even I got that reference.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Have a question about Old Times that I forgot to post the other night. Before Carter’s surgery, he’s showing Benton a picture of Kem and Benton laughs and says he can’t believe Carter married a sister. Does anyone know what he meant by that? I’m Catholic, so to me “sister” means nun or something about a religious order but I’m guessing that’s not what Benton meant.

I also did like how protective he was of Carter’s surgery during this episode and insisting everyone go over the safety checklist before the transplant. 

I loved the list and he's right, you should do that.

He just meant a black woman with the sister comment. It's usually used among African Americans to other African Americans. Some say it came from black churches and my husband who is black said after the 60's, it was more solidarity as they "all are all in this together".

[Kel Varnsen]

So after almost a year, last nighty wife and I finally finished the series. It was long but it was mostly good. As for the finale I liked the day in the life set up and the good variety of good and bad ending cases. Although what the hell was the point of Alexis Bledel showing up for one episode as an intern in the finale. They already had interns, so why not give her story to Daria or the blonde intern who looks more like what I think of when I think Leslie Bibb then then the actual Leslie Bibb did when she was on the show in season 9. I mean. Alexis Bledel is a good actress but hardly a huge star. And it must have kind of sucked for the existing intern actresses that she would come in at the last minute and get the good storyline.

Also I was surprised the Carter Center looked so fancy. You would think with all the time he spent in Africa he would have gone more with utility vs something that looked really good 

[Cloud9Shopper]

@Kel Varnsen Kudos for finishing! I’m planning to do so this weekend, although I just made family plans for Saturday so I’m planning to watch the retrospective on Friday (Prime Video has it for those in the US and Canada) and then the finale itself when I get home on Saturday.

And then I’ll be melancholy that it’s all over. I’ve been a very slow rewatcher for reasons though (short attention span theater, mostly) so it has taken me three years to get to this point. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

The only person I heard they had asked and declined was George Clooney.

So does that mean they didn't even bother asking Gloria Reuben?

Quote

That said the episode I just watched would have been a perfect time for Dough to mention Mark, ask Sam and Neela if they worked with him, and say he was sorry he couldn't make the funeral.

Why would he apologize to them about not attending the funeral? Neither of them knew Mark.

Quote

It is also entirely possible he didn't find out Mark died until after the funeral. Because who would tell him?

Carter, assuming Carol didn't hear about it from one of the nurses.

[Bastet]

On 8/8/2021 at 3:32 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

It is also entirely possible he didn't find out Mark died until after the funeral. Because who would tell him?

Elizabeth?  Someone Elizabeth told who then passed it on even if she didn't reach out directly - Carter?  Benton?  Carol, via one of the nurses?  News of a death tends to spread easier than any other major development, because even people who don't normally keep in touch much if at all anymore will tend to trigger/be part of a communication web specifically about this biggest of big things.

Mark died in Hawaii and the funeral was back in Chicago, so this wasn't a turn-around of just a couple of days.  There was plenty of time to notify those the family would like invited to the funeral and for word to spread to a larger circle, so that someone like "Jester" (Michael Ironside's character Dr. Swift) is there many years later.

Actor availabilty (asked, wanting to appear, willing to work for scale for a day) is what determined who showed up; there's no plausible real-life scenario in which Doug is just MIA without a reason.  Faced with Clooney declining to appear, the writers had to either ignore Doug's absence or toss in a line explaining why he couldn't come.  They probably chose poorly, although if they'd scripted a reason he couldn't make the trip, they'd probably still be getting shit for it not being a good enough excuse.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Actor availabilty (asked, wanting to appear, willing to work for scale for a day) is what determined who showed up; there's no plausible real-life scenario in which Doug is just MIA without a reason.  Faced with Clooney declining to appear, the writers had to either ignore Doug's absence or toss in a line explaining why he couldn't come.  They probably chose poorly, although if they'd scripted a reason he couldn't make the trip, they'd probably still be getting shit for it not being a good enough excuse.

They might have still gotten crap but along with Clooney saying "I'm not treading on Anthony's departure that way" most real fans would get it even if they didn't like it. He's right, the publicity then and year long lead up (very long for some) of Mark's death would be all "George is coming back Thursday!" and it would have been all about him. Saying something or showing a telephone call or a letter or flowers or card or something to memorialize not just Mark but their enduring friendship. That trip they took showed how like brothers they were. You don't just "move on" from that. And I agree with other posts that said with gossip and the way it travels, they would have known. Mark was the ER, his sickness and death would have touched others.

Re Gloria Reuben, she might have been asked and couldn't or not, I know she kept a good rapport with many and was a joy to see on their reunion recently on you tube. It would have been nice to see her, but her missed appearance wasn't as glaring as Doug and they weren't as close.

It was after Mark's death, the show shifted a bit and then more later. They did a good job with his Hawaii scenes but that area with friends at least commenting on hearing from past coworkers was odd. Doug and Carol did come back later but they weren't competing with anyone then. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by debraran

[Cloud9Shopper]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Elizabeth?  Someone Elizabeth told who then passed it on even if she didn't reach out directly - Carter?  Benton?  Carol, via one of the nurses?  News of a death tends to spread easier than any other major development, because even people who don't normally keep in touch much if at all anymore will tend to trigger/be part of a communication web specifically about this biggest of big things.

Mark died in Hawaii and the funeral was back in Chicago, so this wasn't a turn-around of just a couple of days.  There was plenty of time to notify those the family would like invited to the funeral and for word to spread to a larger circle, so that someone like "Jester" (Michael Ironside's character Dr. Swift) is there many years later.

Actor availabilty (asked, wanting to appear, willing to work for scale for a day) is what determined who showed up; there's no plausible real-life scenario in which Doug is just MIA without a reason.  Faced with Clooney declining to appear, the writers had to either ignore Doug's absence or toss in a line explaining why he couldn't come.  They probably chose poorly, although if they'd scripted a reason he couldn't make the trip, they'd probably still be getting shit for it not being a good enough excuse.

Doug didn’t leave Chicago on the best of terms in S5, and even Carol didn’t seem as connected to County except for Christmas cards once she left. Granted this was the pre-social media era, but sometimes even the closest friendships don’t stay intact forever. Especially with coworkers. I know everyone likes to think everyone at County stayed friends forever, but it’s not usually how life works. I can see that maybe he decided it was best to stay away and cut ties. 

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Why would he apologize to them about not attending the funeral? Neither of them knew Mark.

I didn't really mean apologize to them but more like express regret that he couldn't make it. 

[Hiyo]

Yeah but still, why would that even register anything more than a shrug from either Sam or Neela?  

[Cloud9Shopper]

6 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah but still, why would that even register anything more than a shrug from either Sam or Neela?  

Exactly. If this had been said to me and I didn’t even know the person who died, I would’ve been like “uh OK then?” Barely anyone was really left in the ER who knew Mark at that point, and he had already been gone for seven years. What good would expressing regret do at that point? 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Bought the series retrospective off Prime Video tonight and watched that before I watch the finale tomorrow night. I haven’t seen either the retrospective or the finale in many years, so I had forgotten just how much of the cast they got for interviews. Pretty cool to have even Jorja Fox (Maggie Doyle) and Maria Bello (Anna) get a few tidbits in. I think they did a good job of balancing out the good/funny and sad/intense moments the show had over the years. And I teared up at the end when they were showing all the happy reunions and the cast enjoying each others’ company. 

And I love The Hero. It will always be one of my favorite pieces of music in the show, so it was nice to hear in the background of the retrospective. 

[Heathen]

Seeing Dr. Swift mentioned in this thread prompted me to start another binge watch, at "Full Moon, Saturday Night." How quaint it is in comparison to the later seasons. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

Seeing Dr. Swift mentioned in this thread prompted me to start another binge watch, at "Full Moon, Saturday Night." How quaint it is in comparison to the later seasons. 

I loved that episode! Oddities mixed with Susan teaching Carter heart massage, the other odd "full moon" cases, and Carter, Susan, and Carol having a bit of fun (something later ER had very little of!) dancing to "Twist and Shout".

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 hours ago, Heathen said:

Seeing Dr. Swift mentioned in this thread prompted me to start another binge watch, at "Full Moon, Saturday Night." How quaint it is in comparison to the later seasons. 

I watched “What We Do” from S15 a couple weeks ago, and Haleh (I think) mentioned an event from this episode in her interview. She talked about a guy who charged through the hallway while strapped to a gurney. I thought it was a neat callback to the earlier days. 
 

I had the same thought during the retrospective about how old school and simple the hospital looked back in the first two seasons. But around S3 or S4, the show seems to take on a look that could still be modern today, and I think that’s part why I love ER so much. When I started rewatching back in 2018, I was like “Change the character fashions and this still looks like we could watch it today.” 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[Heathen]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I loved that episode! Oddities mixed with Susan teaching Carter heart massage, the other odd "full moon" cases, and Carter, Susan, and Carol having a bit of fun (something later ER had very little of!) dancing to "Twist and Shout".

And Carter's OBVIOUS crush on Susan. He practically had a cartoon heart bursting out of his chest every time he talked to her. 

It kind of pisses me off that St. Abby got in the way of what might have been a great Susan/Carter relationship later on.

[Cloud9Shopper]

32 minutes ago, Heathen said:

And Carter's OBVIOUS crush on Susan. He practically had a cartoon heart bursting out of his chest every time he talked to her. 

It kind of pisses me off that St. Abby got in the way of what might have been a great Susan/Carter relationship later on.

My dislike of Abby was one thing that did not change on my rewatch. I really did want to give her a chance and hoped I could like her because she’s so loved in other fan spaces and so many people say they relate to her, but I still could not like her. It got ridiculous in S14 too when her fans insisted on continuing to sell her as perfect and the best ever at recovery and sobriety because she sat in a meeting and said “whatever it takes” and “absolutely” a couple of times. I just cannot with someone who drives drunk with her kid in the car and makes half-assed amends to people she hurt. And then her fans try to talk about how she’s such a good friend, wife, mom and doctor. Amazing. 

[Heathen]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

My dislike of Abby was one thing that did not change on my rewatch. I really did want to give her a chance and hoped I could like her because she’s so loved in other fan spaces and so many people say they relate to her, but I still could not like her. It got ridiculous in S14 too when her fans insisted on continuing to sell her as perfect and the best ever at recovery and sobriety because she sat in a meeting and said “whatever it takes” and “absolutely” a couple of times. I just cannot with someone who drives drunk with her kid in the car and makes half-assed amends to people she hurt. And then her fans try to talk about how she’s such a good friend, wife, mom and doctor. Amazing. 

I liked Abby at first, when she was a nurse and before she became St. Abby. By the end, I couldn't stand her. I remember my sister asking me who I thought got blown up in the ambulance, and I said I hoped it was Abby. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Some overall thoughts before I watch the series finale tonight. I started rewatching the show back in 2018 after being a fan in high school and a little bit of college but I think the last episode I saw was somewhere around S10 or S11. I’m in my 30s now. 

What changed for me from being a teenager to watching as an adult: Kerry grew on me now that I knew what it was like to be in the working world and work with Kerry types. I loved Peter and Elizabeth together. On the opposite side of things (what I disliked after liking originally), I couldn’t stand Luka and Abby together. I thought they were cute as a teenager but I couldn’t stomach them as a 30something. I also am coming to appreciate Doug and Carol when they reunite and then are still together in S15. I realized Doug grew up a lot offscreen and must have matured into a good father and husband. (Carol wouldn’t have stayed if he hadn’t; I think she knew better.) 

What didn’t change: As I said above, I still don’t like Abby. I still think the Mark years are the best of the show (S1-S8), but I wanted to do a full series viewing just one time. I’m glad I did! It was nice to see characters like Morris, Pratt and Banfield and make my own judgments about them. 

Speaking of which, I feel ER stayed on the air about 3-4 years too long. For me, I noticed the decline in S12 and S13 and S14 were painful to watch. Now I know why you all said everyone seemed so unhappy and the storylines were miserable! There was no fun to be had like there was in the early seasons. S15 even mostly felt average until the originals started returning and the series wound down. There were times in S12-14 I would wonder what happened to the show I used to know and love? It felt like a satire of itself with things like the chimp story, Clemente, and Neela’s gross 19-year-old intern. (And that’s after the shenanigans at Gamma’s funeral and the Chopper of Doom.) It just got so absurd.

The supporting cast of doctors and nurses are amazing too. They fit in so well for being guest stars, whether it was the ER nurses sharing gossip or Shirley firing back at Romano in the OR. 

I’m always amazed at how much ground ER broke on storylines like addiction and LGBT, regardless of the characters involved. Even small things like Hicks being a female attending physician in the 90s, like they talked about during the reunion, made the show hold up so well and lead the way. 

I can’t imagine I’ll do a full rewatch again. I’ll do the bulk of S1-S8 and then be more selective after that so I can skip a lot of the dreadful stuff. I probably won’t come back to the show for awhile unless it’s for things I want to rewatch to write fanfic since I want to check out some other dramas in the meantime. But even with its flaws, it’s one of the shows I can watch over and over without tiring of it. 

Feel free to agree, disagree, and discuss. ( @Heathen sorry I crossed you in the posting process! Haha.)