Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[MaryM47]

Entertainment Weekly has a picture of Stana in her Spirit Awards dress in their Bullseye section with the comment, "Jeez, which shower-curtain manufacturer did Stana Katic piss off?"

[verdana]

CastleVerified account ‏@Castle_ABC  9h9 hours ago

Will Castle be able to let his past go? Find out on an all-new #Castle Monday at 10|9c.

https://twitter.com/Castle_ABC/status/706252962104999937

 

 

You've got to love those ABC promo monkeys and their stellar choices for promoting Castle and tag lines used this season they've been on a roll, they also need to learn to spell or is Haley now?  I agree with some of the comments suggesting it would be more appropriate for perhaps Beckett to be saying this line to Castle. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

Castle was more inclusive at the start for the first season or so. Beckett and Lanie talked like genuine friends, Martha had a life outside the loft, Alexis and Beckett were allowed to converse properly and develop a rapport, Alexis had her issues with boys, college life etc that impacted on the rest of the family and provided various plot lines but then MilMar gave up the pretence entirely they cared about any of these people as soon as they realised how much fans were focusing on Castle and Beckett. They shouldn't have done that, Hawley must be cursing them constantly for the poisoned chalice they handed over.
 

I wasn't saying that every aspect of the change in the show is due to the leads. The point I was making was that installing new cast members to fill roles previously held by the lead actors (e.g. the note-worthy Hayley instead of Beckett at interviews in LA) is probably wholly due to the work arrangement made by the leads. Writers are writing classic Castle/Beckett scenes because those are required for the COTW part of the show, and then inserting other characters to fill the respective roles. That strategy probably would have worked if used from the start, given that other shows (NCIS) rotate cast into and out of those types of scenes. But by previously having Castle-Beckett in every one of those scenes, Marlowe set up an audience expectation that current showrunners are having trouble shaking.

 

That ABC promo tweet above ties in nicely with this comment, that's an aspect that they keep stumbling over again and again especially this season, all many fans are thinking is Beckett/Castle should be in these scenes instead of whatever secondary cast member they've decided to feature. I don't see Hawley weaning enough fans off the two leads and on to other characters, especially when those characters are either plain irritating/creepy (Vikram), divisive (Alexis) or like Hayley offer nothing that the existing neglected long standing cast members could be doing.
 
They'll keep trying because they clearly have no other option but to keep banging away and hope that fans eventually quit grumbling and clock watching and settle down happily to the new look show but after eight years it's probably too late. 
 

Personally, I don't want that back, partly because I find almost all Castle/Beckett scenes these days a little off and awkward, and partly because I think ensemble casting is better. But they need a stronger and more developed ensemble.

 

I agree with you about the Castle/Beckett scenes these days but even with a stronger ensemble cast they can't do much if the writing isn't up to scratch, they've had 13 episodes (okay 9 since I've skipped the rest) to make me care about Hayley, Vikram and Alexis and her newly developed super powers and they've failed with all three. In Vikram's case I actively want him to die horribly and please let Alexis and Hayley stay in LA. 

 

If what I've seen so far is the best Hawley and co can do with an eye to developing an ensemble then they need to give up now because they haven't a got the first clue about how you get fans invested in a group of characters on a weekly basis. I've watched a lot of ensemble shows over the years and S8 Castle isn't even close to being able to hold a candle to any of them.

 

They need to change their entire approach as to how they plot their story arcs and make them more inclusive interlinking the various characters whilst also providing individuals with little stories of their own that can carry on through an entire season whilst not overwhelming any of the other characters. I get the impression these writers are coasting and just don't want to work that hard and writing for an ensemble properly takes work, its noticeable that the show is getting sloppier as time goes on with the lack of attention to even basic things with an ensemble you need to be on the ball. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by verdana

[TWP]

We agree about ensemble too, since you provided a longer version of what I said, which was that they need a stronger, more developed ensemble.

Turning the ensemble into something other than cardboard cutouts would help in general, but that would require developing backstory. As we've all said in one way or another over the years, backstory has never been a strong suit of the show, recently not even with the main characters. Since solving her mother's murder, Beckett doesn't even appear to have any life outside of Castle and the precinct. She has no personal friends other than maybe the barely-existent Lanie, no hobbies. For all we know, her father may have died. I'm sure at some point we'll find out via a showrunner interviews that Jim is dear departed, but they'll curse the viewers for not recognizing the sad event as "subtext". "Of course Jim is dead," they'll say. "You haven't seen him all season, have you?"

At least Castle still writes, so he does something other than work the precinct. And he has family.

But I think other shows have problems with ensemble development. Fortunately for them, they never raised the expectation of 29 minutes with the leads every week. I think that is what is really biting Castle, as I've said, high expectations that can't be met anymore. And to do the COTW, they have to have the interview and chase scenes and whatever, but without the leads always doing them. But yes, they've hacked the loss of Casket time quite a bit. I can't help but wonder if that is due to budget cutting in the writer's room. The worst hack this season was when Ryan commented on Beckett's posterior, with a line that only Castle should have said. This was when I realized what they were doing/how they were hacking.

But saying, as some have, that the fix is to bring back the original formula is futile. The leads don't want that. The show has already spun away from "writer and muse".

Honestly, I don't think Castle is the worst hack job I've seen. I left the TV running on an episode of Grey's Anatomy. My word, is that show a kludge. Castle is fine in comparison. I'd love to see what would happen if the two shows switched timeslots. Timeslot is the only thing keeping Grey's alive these days, IMHO. Talk about a show that has run it's course. But I don't blame the cast for coming back to that show either. Imagine being offered lottery winnings every year for doing something like acting. Anyone who wouldn't take that deal, IMHO, has more ego than brains :-).

[verdana]

TVLine.comVerified account ‏@TVLine  1h1 hour ago

#Castle Casts @GeneralHospital's Maurice Benard in Non-Murder Mystery Episode

http://tvline.com/2016/03/05/castle-season-8-maurice-benard-cast-jonathan-silverman/…

General Hospital vet Maurice Benard will guest-star with Jonathan Silverman (The Single Guy) in an upcoming, murder-less (?) episode of ABC’s Castle.

TVLine has learned that in the 19th episode of Season 8, Silverman plays Alan Masters, the miraculous survivor of an attempted murder who subsequently helps Castle and Beckett solve the case.

 

Luke Reichle ‏@RedCarpetLuke  1 hr1 hour ago

Backstage at #Castle -- Will we have a Season 9?

https://twitter.com/RedCarpetLuke/status/706538577430118400

 

If we do, I hope the network figure they need to tighten their belts and make some staff cut backs starting in the wardrobe dept... 

Edited March 6, 2016 by verdana

[oberon55]

I still think most or all of the problems this season come down to the writers & show runners. Look at their story choices this season:

 

Beckett & Castle:
Beckett chose pursuing LokSat over Castle & her marriage. Despite everybody & their dog telling her to just let it go, she was too obsessed so she walked out without even telling Castle why. Then after several episodes of a hapless Castle "winning her back" (which more or less boiled down to some sad looks, pheromones & shirt smelling) she says "I'm sorry babe but I don't want to do this without you" & is instantly forgiven. They immediately come up with a plan that involves them lying to their friends & family, sneaking around & pretending to be adulterers. All while she is still investigating LokSat without Castle.

 

As far as the rest of the cast go:
Ryan is going to have another baby & is worried about money so he takes a bribe, tries & fails the sergeant's exam & shoots his partner. Then miraculously we never hear another word about his money problems.

Alexis (the computer hacking, skotch drinking, English teaching, super detective college student) has barely even mentioned her father's breakup. Or where she lives. Or what she is taking in college. Or anything really.

 

Esposito passed his sergeant's test & flip flops on a weekly basis about whether he likes or hates Castle. That's about it.

 

Martha & Lanie are still there. What else can you say.

 

As far as Vikrum & Haley go I really don't give a damn.

 

So to me as long as the writing sucks as bad as it has this season it does not matter who is on screen for how many minutes or how ensembly the show is.

[CastleSeason8]

If we do, I hope the network figure they need to tighten their belts and make some staff cut backs starting in the wardrobe dept...

With all the people associated with Castle tweeting about a possible S9, i have a funny feeling they already know its a go and the details are just being ironed out. Now, who will be in it is the million dollar question. Also, still set in NY or LA?

[KaveDweller]

This is what they told Deadline as recently as Jan 10

 

Just last spring, Castle was in a similar situation. “Last year (creator) Andrew Marlowe wrote the finale not knowing if they would come back, and this year we knew we could possibly do the same thing — have a nice conclusion and still set up something we can launch into if there is a season 9,” Hawley said. “I think going out with a cliffhanger of sorts always helps you when you come back. When we came back this year, it had a conclusion last year, and I think ultimately it was a little harder for us to get out of the gate because people didn’t have anything driving them back.”

Still, Hawley and Winter will not leave fans hanging. “Everything that has been set up will come to a conclusion this season,” Winter said. That includes the LokSat mystery.

While they have their hands full with Season 8, Hawley and Winter have an idea where they want to go in Season 9, which is return to the show’s roots after a serialized eighth season.

“This season was a little bit of a transition, getting Castle into the PI office and setting that world up for him to give him that drive,” Hawley said. “We wanted to wrap up a lot of the threads of different conspiracies, Beckett’s mother’s murder, Castle’s missing time. We wanted by the end of Season 8 to have gotten through all those — hopefully in a compelling and satisfying way — so Season 9 can be more about the case of the week, going back to the fun of solving the case of the week and not have the luggage of past conspiracies.”

“We feel like the show has a lot of life left in it, and we want it to be with the same cast going forward,” Hawley said.

 

Despite what they said about getting Castle into the P.I.office this season, their ideas for S9 being "more about the case of the week, going back to the fun of solving the case of the week" seems to me that the emphasis would be on the precinct rather than his P.I.role, and he could return as the consultant, which he didn't really need to have given up in the first place just because Beckett had been promoted, but that might require Castle and Beckett to appear in scenes together in an episode for more than the average 7-8 mins they've managed this season so far. Nathan might have had a lot of fun playing Castle this season but some fans don't seem to have taken to the buffoon that he has morphed into that well. In the earlier seasons Castle tapped into his wealth of contacts, knowledge of useful things, and asymetric thinking to help Beckett solve cases, haven't seen too much of that side of him recently and the show has been the poorer for it I think. The fact that he is a writer was very prominent in contributing to the cases in Tick Tick Tick/Boom, Knockout, and Dreamworld which would have left the cops flummoxed otherwise. That was what he brought to the partnership in the earlier seasons and made the sum of their parts so effective.

 

I actually interpreted that differently. I thought saying this season was a transition to get Castle's PI office set up, and next season will be about the COTW to mean next season will have the COTWs be cases that the PI office is solving and not cases the NYPD is solving.

[westwingfan]

I actually interpreted that differently. I thought saying this season was a transition to get Castle's PI office set up, and next season will be about the COTW to mean next season will have the COTWs be cases that the PI office is solving and not cases the NYPD is solving.

It was wishful thinking. LOL

 

Check out this article from TVOvermind, I think this sums up what those who have been falling out of love with show have been fearing.

 

http://www.tvovermind.com/tv-news/castle-if-it-walks-like-a-spinoff-talks-like-a-spinoff-then

[westwingfan]

The TVLine article announcing Gerald McRaney's casting said it was for "multiple episodes" . Could Castle's dilemma that he faces in 8x15 be that he is offered membership of the G.D.S., and this becomes the cliffhanger that Hawley is now talking about so that their options for S9 are left open in case they only have Nathan to work with. This would be similar to how they left Beckett with options in Hollander's Woods, but the seeds for those options were sown in earlier episodes, promotion to Captain was first raised in Hong Kong Hustle (7x17), and running for the State Senate was mentioned in At Close Range (7x18). So 8x14/8x15 is only a little earlier in the season to bring up matters that could rear their head again in the finale.

[KaveDweller]

It was wishful thinking. LOL

 

Check out this article from TVOvermind, I think this sums up what those who have been falling out of love with show have been fearing.

 

http://www.tvovermind.com/tv-news/castle-if-it-walks-like-a-spinoff-talks-like-a-spinoff-then

 

Well, I do hope I am wrong. 

 

That article made me sad. Because I can't really argue with anything it said.

[CastleSeason8]

The TVLine article announcing Gerald McRaney's casting said it was for "multiple episodes" . Could Castle's dilemma that he faces in 8x15 be that he is offered membership of the G.D.S., and this becomes the cliffhanger that Hawley is now talking about so that their options for S9 are left open in case they only have Nathan to work with. This would be similar to how they left Beckett with options in Hollander's Woods, but the seeds for those options were sown in earlier episodes, promotion to Captain was first raised in Hong Kong Hustle (7x17), and running for the State Senate was mentioned in At Close Range (7x18). So 8x14/8x15 is only a little earlier in the season to bring up matters that could rear their head again in the finale.

I didnt realize he was coming back for more. That makes sense to me. They probably ask him to join, and that jives with my earlier question about why they keep bringing up his writing. This will be his new inspiration i guess. And yes, if SK doesnt come back, Castle can move to LA and S9 begins. Without me i might add

[verdana]

I didnt realize he was coming back for more. That makes sense to me. They probably ask him to join, and that jives with my earlier question about why they keep bringing up his writing. This will be his new inspiration i guess. And yes, if SK doesnt come back, Castle can move to LA and S9 begins. Without me i might add

I'd forgotten he was going to be there for more than one episode, I'll be missing them. Castle can move to LA if he likes but like you, I'l be moving on elsewhere. 

[break21]

I'll be different - I like Gerald McRaney.

 

My opinion, there's never going to Caskett interactions like in the past.  Stana Katic has obviously asked for time-off.  NF apparently wants a reduced work-load.  Add to that whatever problems exist between NF and SK, and their exists their screen-time.

 

I've just stopped wishing for scenes that aren't going to happen.  I don't think Season 8 has a been a complete disaster given the constraints of the leads.   IMO, the last 3 episodes have been pretty good.    I think, even at this stage, it's better than anything else on at 10 on Monday.

 

I'm not giving up on it yet.

[verdana]

Detailed, thought provoking article from Joy as usual examining the situation and offering her views. I can't argue with much of it either. 

 

Her conclusion hit home to me: 

 

Will Castle get a season 9?  I have no idea.  However, whether both leads come back or not, a season 9 is going to be even more of what’s been going on in season 8.  That’s the thing viewers need to realize and then decide for themselves how they want to handle it.  Love the new stuff? Good, because there’s gonna be a lot more of it.  This is not a spoiler alert, but do consider yourself warned.  This Monday is Castle, “The G.D.S. ” alright.  It’s (and I’ll say this politely) Castle, The Gosh Darn Spinoff.

 

I've had to struggle with this all season, I say I'm not watching the show at the moment because of the Locksat/separation issue but what Joy's article did was make me sit up and think would I want to watch the show in S9 even without all that and it becomes like sampling New Coke? No. The show will have moved on and morphed into something new that I'm not interested in watching, that's just how it goes. In the end if you spend more time being frustrated by a show than enjoying what you're watching, I believe you need to start asking yourself some hard questions about why.

 

Nothing is set in stone yet of course and may be nothing will come of all this GDS stuff but the next couple of months on and off screen are going to be rather interesting.

Edited March 6, 2016 by verdana

[BlakesMomma]

I like Gerald McRaney also and look forward to seeing him.

 

It seemed pretty clear to me during negotiations for S8, that ABC was prepared to move forward without Stana if she chose not to sign.  My guess is that she told them when she did sign that one more year was it for her.  At that point, ABC has every right to start making a plan for additional seasons if they feel it's financially viable.  And if Stana chooses to move on to other things, I wish her well, but showing her hand before the end of the game isn't always a wise choice.

 

What many don't seem to understand or accept is that Fillion has a large fan base beginning with projects as far back as OLTL, many of whom don't watch Castle for various reasons - they don't like the specific premise, they don't like the Beckett character, and other things.  If ABC changes up the premise in the right direction, many of those NF fans will watch.    So ABC has every right to do what they feel is best business wise.

 

With regard to the TV Overmind article, no one has said S9 would still be called Castle, trying to dupe the fans.  ABC could just as easily announce that there will be a S9 with some take off of the Castle name.  There are free choices involved for both the leads and the network.  Just as Coke has every right to change their product, ABC has every right to change theirs.  They can make whatever changes they feel are the right ones based on the bottom line.  It then becomes the viewers/consumers free choice to either watch or not, and the product will either succeed or fail.  ABC is and always will be a business answering only to their stockholders, not the fans. They don't really owe the fans anything other than the 22 episodes contracted at the beginning of each season.

[KaveDweller]

Of course ABC has a right to do whatever they want with the show, but fans have a right to not like what they may choose to do.

[BellyLaughter]

I like Gerald McRaney also and look forward to seeing him.

It seemed pretty clear to me during negotiations for S8, that ABC was prepared to move forward without Stana if she chose not to sign. My guess is that she told them when she did sign that one more year was it for her. At that point, ABC has every right to start making a plan for additional seasons if they feel it's financially viable. And if Stana chooses to move on to other things, I wish her well, but showing her hand before the end of the game isn't always a wise choice.

What many don't seem to understand or accept is that Fillion has a large fan base beginning with projects as far back as OLTL, many of whom don't watch Castle for various reasons - they don't like the specific premise, they don't like the Beckett character, and other things. If ABC changes up the premise in the right direction, many of those NF fans will watch. So ABC has every right to do what they feel is best business wise.

With regard to the TV Overmind article, no one has said S9 would still be called Castle, trying to dupe the fans. ABC could just as easily announce that there will be a S9 with some take off of the Castle name. There are free choices involved for both the leads and the network. Just as Coke has every right to change their product, ABC has every right to change theirs. They can make whatever changes they feel are the right ones based on the bottom line. It then becomes the viewers/consumers free choice to either watch or not, and the product will either succeed or fail. ABC is and always will be a business answering only to their stockholders, not the fans. They don't really owe the fans anything other than the 22 episodes contracted at the beginning of each season.

So fans who have watched this show from the start and embraced it's stories, characters and journey are supposed to suck it just on the off chance that the millions of Nathan Fillion fans who didn't even bother to sample the original show may now tune in......

There are no words.

[westwingfan]

So fans who have watched this show from the start and embraced it's stories, characters and journey are supposed to suck it just on the off chance that the millions of Nathan Fillion fans who didn't even bother to sample the original show may now tune in......

There are no words.

It would be interesting to see how much ABC would be willing to invest in promoting a solo Fillion show to attract his millions of fans who weren't interested in the original concept of the show to convince them it is something different. Castle didn't get much promotion in its latter years compared to other ABC shows.

[break21]

It's a choice- you can leave it or hate it.  IMO - nothing stays the same for 8 years - Contracts have changed.  People change. Nothing stands still in time.  It still interests me, you might hate it - that's fine. Just a difference of opinion.  I don't think a show can stay the same for 8 years.  Internally and creatively, too many changes. 

[Cyranetta]

It seems to me that the problem of a Beckettless S9 is how to navigate the emotional shoals of death/divorce/whatevs and segue into more of the Castle buffoonery that seems to be an increasing element - I don't think it can really be accomplished. What might work would be some sort of wild-card move like bringing in a long-lost Castle twin (if Perlmutter can have one...) who can clown his way into the PI business without the emotional landmines.

[BellyLaughter]

It would be interesting to see how much ABC would be willing to invest in promoting a solo Fillion show to attract his millions of fans who weren't interested in the original concept of the show to convince them it is something different. Castle didn't get much promotion in its latter years compared to other ABC shows.

Oh I'm sure they will give that sort of solo show a nuclear sized promo campaign - just based on all the millions of fans he has who didn't bother to watch his previous show which this show will be birthed from....

Is my sarcasm coming through loud and clear??

I don't care if some of his millions of fans didn't like the concept of the show or the character of Beckett - I did. I watched and invested in the stories so to be treated this way and be a pawn in someone else's business decision is a bitter pill to swallow. Of course it's all hypothetical at the moment but with each passing day it seems less and less hypothetical.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[BellyLaughter]

It seems to me that the problem of a Beckettless S9 is how to navigate the emotional shoals of death/divorce/whatevs and segue into more of the Castle buffoonery that seems to be an increasing element - I don't think it can really be accomplished. What might work would be some sort of wild-card move like bringing in a long-lost Castle twin (if Perlmutter can have one...) who can clown his way into the PI business without the emotional landmines.

I've wondered about that too. How do you get rid of Beckett one week and the the next week we're tripping over shit, ridiculing Esposito and smoking bubble cigars with our daughter. Given the Beckett fanbase of this show and the history of the story I think the transition is all but impossible and I keep hoping against hope that someone at ABC will take off their greed glasses, realise it and give this show an ending that long term fans can find somewhat satisfying. But who am I kidding.....as long as there's pockets to be lined....

[westwingfan]

Oh I'm sure they will give that sort of solo show a nuclear sized promo campaign - just based on all the millions of fans he has who didn't bother to watch his previous show which this show will be birthed from....

Is my sarcasm coming through loud and clear??

I don't care if some of his millions of fans didn't like the concept of the show or the character of Beckett - I did. I watched and invested in the stories so to be treated this way and be a pawn in someone else's business decision is a bitter pill to swallow. Of course it's all hypothetical at the moment but with each passing day it seems less and less hypothetical.

If you type "Alt 0191" you get the sarcasm symbol "¿" so there is no confusion. LOL

 

Perhaps there'll be a time bump and he'll return as a descendant of Castle P.I. many years in the future plying his trade in a galaxy far far away, and assisted by his daughter wearing the skimpy outfit of a band of Amazon assassins. That way they don't have to explain Beckett's demise as she'd be dust by then.

[BellyLaughter]

If you type "Alt 0191" you get the sarcasm symbol "¿" so there is no confusion. LOL

Perhaps there'll be a time bump and he'll return as a descendant of Castle P.I. many years in the future plying his trade in a galaxy far far away, and assisted by his daughter wearing the skimpy outfit of a band of Amazon assassins. That way they don't have to explain Beckett's demise as she'd be dust by then.

Thanks for the tip!! I have a feeling I will be needing that symbol in the months to come!!

PS I think you may be onto an Emmy award winning idea there...and if he's in a galaxy far far away he could also wear tight pants - it's a win-win for ABC!!

[KaveDweller]

It's a choice- you can leave it or hate it.  IMO - nothing stays the same for 8 years - Contracts have changed.  People change. Nothing stands still in time.  It still interests me, you might hate it - that's fine. Just a difference of opinion.  I don't think a show can stay the same for 8 years.  Internally and creatively, too many changes. 

 

I agree that nothing can stay the same. But that's why I'm a fan of shows going out when they are on top. Castle's writing has been getting worse over the years and the ratings reflect this. So if a long-running show has dwindling ratings, higher costs, potential BTS drama, and one of the leads may not want to return, why not just go out on a high note rather than try to turn it into a brand new show?

Edited March 6, 2016 by KaveDweller

[break21]

I don't think a  Becket-less Castle wasn't the plan - I think it was Stana Katic's demand.  H-poster, who posted a little too much inside info and deleted it all, - basically said she wanted the Castle/Beckett separation and wanted time-off,  So, here we are...

[BellyLaughter]

I don't think a Becket-less Castle wasn't the plan - I think it was Stana Katic's demand. H-poster, who posted a little too much inside info and deleted it all, - basically said she wanted the Castle/Beckett separation and wanted time-off, So, here we are...

Hal did confirm BTS tensions and actors wanting time off but s/he never attributed either actor as being the instigator of a desire to see a break up between Castle and Beckett. That was a choice of the showrunners/writers because of said BTS drama and reduced working days per episode. A choice that the writers have not handled well at all - hence the discontent that a lot of fans have experienced this season.

Honestly - it's time for this show to end. The fatigue is so obvious - the actors, the writers, the network and the fans. We are all showing it.

Edited March 7, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[KaveDweller]

I don't think a  Becket-less Castle wasn't the plan - I think it was Stana Katic's demand.  H-poster, who posted a little too much inside info and deleted it all, - basically said she wanted the Castle/Beckett separation and wanted time-off,  So, here we are...

 

That wasn't what was posted here. Halwideman stated that Stana wanted something dramatic to do and wanted to be able to take a couple weeks off during season 8. Nathan also wanted a lighter schedule and who knows what else. It has never been suggested that either actor specifically wanted the separation storyline. Just that they wanted something interesting to do. The writers are behind the breakup fiasco.

 

Hal did hint last summer that Stana had indicated not wanting to go past season 8, but also suggested later that may not have been accurate. So who knows about that part..... 

[westwingfan]

I don't think a  Becket-less Castle wasn't the plan - I think it was Stana Katic's demand.  H-poster, who posted a little too much inside info and deleted it all, - basically said she wanted the Castle/Beckett separation and wanted time-off,  So, here we are...

I thought they said she didn't want to be just the little wifey. I'd hardly call the Captain's role she's played this season a satisfactory alternative as I've found Captain Beckett boring and stilted, and yet the showrunners told EW on Aug 5

 

The position will also provide the writers with a wealth of new story avenues for Beckett outside her professional life, says EP Alexi Hawley. “Since she doesn’t have to be boots on the ground in every aspect of the case, it also gives us opportunities with her to open up her character a little bit more and to take her down some other roads,” he says.

 

Still waiting for the wealth of new story avenues to materialise.

Hal did confirm BTS tensions and actors wanting time off but s/he never attributed either actor as being the instigator of a desire to see a break up between Castle and Beckett. That was a choice forced on writers because of said BTS drama and reduced working days per episode. A choice that the writers have not handled well at all - hence the discontent that a lot of fans have experienced this season.

Honestly - it's time for this show to end. The fatigue is so obvious - the actors, the writers, the network and the fans. We are all showing it.

I thought they said that promoting Beckett and resurrecting Castle's P.I. career would have taken care of any BTS issues, the break up was all on the showrunners who wanted to re-energise the writers' room.

[Sonik Tooth]

Sorry, but I think this article is pure fiction, especially how she is bending the ratings to fit the narrative. The overall conclusion that most people watch Castle because of Castle and Beckett solving crimes together might probably be true, but you can’t treat a numerical series tracking demo and overall audience like that.

 

Quote from the article:

 

 

"Is it just an interesting coincidence that Castle season 8 episode 14 will be taking us back to deal with what happened to Castle after the car crash in Castle 6 x 23 – which is what started all of these changes in the first place?"

It’s not a coincidence, it’s what has been known even before the season started. The new showrunners want to try their luck with both backstories. Castle and his dubious vanishing and Beckett and the mystery of her mother’s death.

 

In season 7 Castle got a “story-arc”. After Beckett’s mystery came to a (first) conclusion in season 6, I would think it is nothing too uncommon. What was unusual was IMO the ill thought through and ill executed storyline. Nothing that really entices the audience. The PI-arc lasted for 3 episodes and had no connection to the vanishing. All those episodes must have been written before ABC committed to another season and before the leads renegotiated their contracts. I really see no conspiracies here.

 

Everyone can think of the new showrunners ideas for new plot and structure what they want, but I believe they (and the network) are not blind to what originally drives the show, what the audience has been served with all those years. The network wanted an 8th season, the leads were probably willing to commit with a lesser workload (if you want to subscribe to the also very plausible drama-less version), tough luck to the showrunners!

[BellyLaughter]

I thought they said she didn't want to be just the little wifey. I'd hardly call the Captain's role she's played this season a satisfactory alternative as I've found Captain Beckett boring and stilted, and yet the showrunners told EW on Aug 5

The position will also provide the writers with a wealth of new story avenues for Beckett outside her professional life, says EP Alexi Hawley. “Since she doesn’t have to be boots on the ground in every aspect of the case, it also gives us opportunities with her to open up her character a little bit more and to take her down some other roads,” he says.

Still waiting for the wealth of new story avenues to materialise.

I thought they said that promoting Beckett and resurrecting Castle's P.I. career would have taken care of any BTS issues, the break up was all on the showrunners who wanted to re-energise the writers' room.

I stand corrected - that is why Hal said earlier this season! But the important part is to make it clear that as far as we know neither Nathan or Stana demanded a break up for their characters!!

[WendyCR72]

We don't know what caused the BTS stuff and, while this is a spec thread, I see no point in bringing up deleted material or absent posters.

 

Let's move on. Thanks!

[TWP]

I like Gerald McRaney also and look forward to seeing him.

It seemed pretty clear to me during negotiations for S8, that ABC was prepared to move forward without Stana if she chose not to sign. My guess is that she told them when she did sign that one more year was it for her. At that point, ABC has every right to start making a plan for additional seasons if they feel it's financially viable. And if Stana chooses to move on to other things, I wish her well, but showing her hand before the end of the game isn't always a wise choice.

Me too, about McRaney. People talk about NCIS as an example of a show that didn't change its formula. However in it's running, it lost 2 directors, 2 main investigators and is slotted to lose Michael Weatherly after this year. Big players are gone. The show went on without all. Greys moved on without Derek. Castle should go on without Stana if she doesn't sign. I think it would be silly for her not to sign, but it is what it is.

What many don't seem to understand or accept is that Fillion has a large fan base beginning with projects as far back as OLTL, many of whom don't watch Castle for various reasons - they don't like the specific premise, they don't like the Beckett character, and other things. If ABC changes up the premise in the right direction, many of those NF fans will watch. So ABC has every right to do what they feel is best business wise.

In addition, Fillion is the one who pulled Castle off the pile of pilots and onto the map. He chose well. The show may never have seen the light of day without him.

With regard to the TV Overmind article, no one has said S9 would still be called Castle, trying to dupe the fans. ABC could just as easily announce that there will be a S9 with some take off of the Castle name. There are free choices involved for both the leads and the network. Just as Coke has every right to change their product, ABC has every right to change theirs. They can make whatever changes they feel are the right ones based on the bottom line. It then becomes the viewers/consumers free choice to either watch or not, and the product will either succeed or fail. ABC is and always will be a business answering only to their stockholders, not the fans. They don't really owe the fans anything other than the 22 episodes contracted at the beginning of each season.

People on the Internet complain loudly but at worst their displeasure only causes a 0.1 or 0.2 shift in ratings. And during the current wave of discontent, the ratings have improved. Most of the year to year change is just normal ratings loss as shows age. The more vocal critics on the internet don't really shape showrunner opinions. Most viewers don't invest much in critiquing TV shows, just want to be entertained. True outrage among the masses is rare.

I do think if they move on without Stana, they'll need to do some serious work to get buy-off by maybe a new crop of fans, but shows do it. It's workable.

Edited March 7, 2016 by TWP

[verdana]

Another sneak peek:

https://amp.twimg.com/v/b5cdb95c-c5d6-4d9d-b604-5ac4993d9330

I'm in agreement with Hayley and her description of that 'ridiculous' detective society.

[madmaverick]

Sorry, but I think this article is pure fiction, especially how she is bending the ratings to fit the narrative. The overall conclusion that most people watch Castle because of Castle and Beckett solving crimes together might probably be true, but you can’t treat a numerical series tracking demo and overall audience like that.

Completely agree.  That reviewer has a distinctive bias in the way she sees the show, and that was clear to me even several seasons ago in reading her stuff, which is why I only give it a skim when it's linked here.  I don't think she provides an objective view of the show.  She provides one point of view, yes, and if your likes and dislikes happen to coincide with hers, maybe you like her stuff better.  In my view, she always cherry picks things to fit her narrative about the show.  Sure, which fangirl isn't without their biases?  But if I have to read analyses from fans, I personally prefer reading the diverse points of view we have in here, which are subject to often vigorous debate. 

 

I don't want to get into a debate about ratings cause and effect because it's basically impossible to draw any robust conclusions from all the number of random variables.  Some people like to attribute the ratings decline to the birth of Castle P.I. (because they themselves don't like it? ;)), but if we're going to blame the decline on one specific thing, then any number of factors are fair game as well: the aborted wedding, fatigue from mombatross which also saw declined ratings as the arc went on, boredom with Caskett as happy couple, Caskett taking a time out from their marriage etc. etc.  I think the ratings picture is far more complex than that.  It could simply be that the show is a very old one and people are craving something new, and that ratings are declining across the board.  

 

"Is it just an interesting coincidence that Castle season 8 episode 14 will be taking us back to deal with what happened to Castle after the car crash in Castle 6 x 23 – which is what started all of these changes in the first place?"

It’s not a coincidence, it’s what has been known even before the season started. The new showrunners want to try their luck with both backstories. Castle and his dubious vanishing and Beckett and the mystery of her mother’s death.

In season 7 Castle got a “story-arc”. After Beckett’s mystery came to a (first) conclusion in season 6, I would think it is nothing too uncommon. What was unusual was IMO the ill thought through and ill executed storyline. Nothing that really entices the audience. The PI-arc lasted for 3 episodes and had no connection to the vanishing. All those episodes must have been written before ABC committed to another season and before the leads renegotiated their contracts. I really see no conspiracies here.

 

Exactly, God forbid Castle get a "story arc" after how many seasons of supporting Beckett's story arcs? ;)  To me, it was natural as well that the writers turned to the other character after the mombatross was resolved.  Not that I think Marlowe's choice of some huge conspiracy resulting in a disappeared groom was a good one. ;)  If I recall correctly, it was mentioned that Adam Frost pitched the idea of Castle getting a P.I. licence in S7.  I'm not surprised the writers took that idea on board because it was a natural extension of Castle's work as a civilian consultant, plus it could create some conflict between Caskett which the writers love to do as a dramatic engine.  It would also give the titular Castle character something new to do, which he really hadn't gotten in all the seasons previously.  Beckett had her D.C. foray and her State Senator thing (still wtf thanks to Marlowe), so what was so unacceptable about Castle getting a P.I licence especially in the context of a show about crime investigation?  Gave the show and the character as well the whole ensemble more to play with and more flexibility.  Win win, in my opinion.

 

The P.I. arc in S7 was actually one of the creative highlights for me.  I liked the shake up in formula and there was a renewed energy to Castle, Caskett and the show.  That element of the show has been less successfully managed this season in that it's become more of a structural element rather than a character driven one as it was in S7.  It's a fair device for the writers to develop A and B stories for the two leads due to the constraints from reduced hours for the leads.  I watch Elementary and have noticed that they too are also doing more episodes where Sherlock investigates one crime and Watson investigates another.  They still share scenes of course and their paths do cross in the story, but they are no longer in every scene together and they are just in S4.  The husband and wife team on Madam Secretary also have their own separate stories in the majority of the episodes.  

 

So, no, I don't think there's anything so unusual with the evolved structure on Castle especially given that it's in its 8th season and the leads want less of the grind.  I feel like Yoda at this point.  Do or do not, there is no try.  Watch or do not watch if you don't like the changes.  But there's no use harping on how much shared screentime there was and how it's reduced this season.  From the minute new contracts were negotiated this season, the show had to evolve.

 

Just as I respect the right of Stana to leave the show if she wishes, I respect the right of the network and the other cast to want to continue with it if they want to.  It's a free choice for everyone.  You can't just demand a show end just because an actor chooses to walk away.  The network owns the show, not the actors.  No one is bigger than the show itself.  If the show continues in a format that you don't like as you only watched for one character, then don't watch.  Again, it's a free choice.

 

If the situation were reversed and people suspected Nathan wasn't inclined to continue, who knows maybe all the critics of the Castle P.I. stuff would be excited about Stana headlining the show and the show becoming an edgy, full on Badass Beckett extravaganza all of the time as the broken, but never defeated heroine struggles to recover from the second big tragedy of her life, the loss of Castle, as she continues to seek justice for all?  ;)   We'll never know.

 

I still think it's too soon to call it a spinoff until there actually is a spinoff.  The G.D.S. episode is one episode in the season where the P.I. stuff gets more focus in an episode about Castle's disappearance.  The very next one is one focused on Beckett.  Are people also concluding that there will be a spinoff of Beckett as a teacher at the police academy? ;)  It could be that things shook out the way they did because Stana wanted that particular time period off, it could be that the network is trying to keep their options open.  Smart thing to do, if faced with uncertainty from the actors.  

 

What I'm pretty sure is that the people who have been complaining about anything P.I., anything featuring less Beckett, anything with Alexis and Hayley all season won't like this week's episode regardless.  That's not going to change regardless of the quality of the episode.  I personally have low expectations for it because I don't think Hawley's the best writer and because there's an impossible mountain to climb re Castle's disappearance story after the hole Marlowe and Amann shoved it into. 

[verdana]

People on the Internet complain loudly but at worst their displeasure only causes a 0.1 or 0.2 shift in ratings. And during the current wave of discontent, the ratings have improved. Most of the year to year change is just normal ratings loss as shows age. The more vocal critics on the internet don't really shape showrunner opinions. Most viewers don't invest much in critiquing TV shows, just want to be entertained. True outrage among the masses is rare.

Whilst I agree with all of this, I sincerely hope the fact the ratings haven't been significantly impacted isn't going to be used by TPTB as a sign that Locksat and the idea of separating Castle and Beckett for numerous episodes was a good idea and God forbid even a success as a writing formula and they plan to repeat the cycle next season.

Given the natural wastage in the ratings each season it's going to be interesting to see what a S9 gets in the demo and is considered acceptable by those that really pay attention to them.

Edited March 7, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

Erik Altstadt ‏@EAkorn  38m38 minutes ago

We started ep #820 today. 3 more episodes to shoot in season 8. This season has gone by so fast. #Castle

 

 

 

Watch what you love. ‏@Sandraxf  23 mins23 minutes ago

Watch @ToksOlagundoye on KTLA 5 Morning News (incl. #Castle Sneak Peek #4) http://ktla.com/on-air/live-streaming/ … (7:51:00 mark)

 

[madmaverick]

Love this pic from Susan.  Yay for Martha going from strength to strength.  

https://twitter.com/realssullivan/status/706879918991249409

 

Now that Martha's published her own book (looking forward to Castle's reaction to that heh), I say Susan should publish her own Unsolicited Advice in book form too. :P

 

Haven't watched the last sneak, but curious that they don't seem to have advertised Summer Glau and Gerald's appearance in the episode at all.

Edited March 7, 2016 by madmaverick

[verdana]

Castle: Fidelis Ad Mortem (3/21)
BECKETT AND TEAM RETURN TO THE NYPD ACADEMY

TO INVESTIGATE A MURDERED RECRUIT, ON ABC’S “CASTLE”

 

When a recruit officer at the NYPD Academy is killed, Beckett and the team go back to their old training ground to investigate.  Meanwhile, Castle must reckon with a decision with profound consequences for him and Beckett.

 

What's the betting those "profound" consequences result in them giving up the separation bullshit and she moves back in conveniently in time to do battle with Lucy if I'm recalling the old spoilers correctly.  

Love this pic from Susan.  Yay for Martha going from strength to strength.  

https://twitter.com/realssullivan/status/706879918991249409

 

Now that Martha's published her own book (looking forward to Castle's reaction to that heh), I say Susan should publish her own Unsolicited Advice in book form too. :P

 

Haven't watched the last sneak, but curious that they don't seem to have advertised Summer Glau and Gerald's appearance in the episode at all.

I note Molly has the book upside down heh, shame on you girl! Her character could do with listening to some advice...

 

It is strange about the lack of publicity for these guest stars but then ABC's promotion of this show leaves much to be desired on every level.

[verdana]

Watch what you love. ‏@Sandraxf  7h7 hours ago

Los Angeles Times - Monday's TV highlights: ABC's #Castle and more http://fw.to/Mg1fhLG

 

Castle Series star Nathan Fillion is reunited with his former "Firefly" costar Summer Glau when the actress guest stars as a private detective on a new episode of the mystery drama; "Deadwood's" Gerald McRaney and Doug Savant ("Melrose Place") also guest star. 10 p.m. ABC

 

Stana KaticVerified account

‏@Stana_Katic

New #Castle tonight, ladies & gents. Rick Castle heads off to LA to solve his disappearance mystery. Enjoy!

https://twitter.com/Stana_Katic/status/706916949771423744

 

 

I like the picture she's chose there to showcase the episode. 

Here's the youtube version of that fourth sneak

[WendyCR72]

General Hospital actor Maurice Benard and Jonathan Silverman to guest star on a "murderless" episode.

[madmaverick]

Happy to see Matt finally dish it back to those crazies at TV Line.  If you can't even snark at the terribly absurd comments that you are forced to read over there, it really is a thankless job.  The same crazy flock rush to TV Line in a frenzy to bash a certain actor whenever any Castle article appears.  It's like OCD. ;)

 

A murderless episode sounds interesting.  Still like the idea pitched by Stana or Seamus, for an episode where nothing much really happens.  Might be too challenging for Castle writers though.

 

Nice interview with Toks on this morning show that a few fellow Castle cast have been on over the years and it's always nice.  They might actually watch the show.  One of the reporters is certainly a Nathan fan heh.  Toks also has some lovely things to say about him.  If people really are about respect, they should at least respect what coworkers say about a person before assassinating a person's character.  ;)

 

http://ktla.com/2016/03/07/toks-olagundoye-talks-castle-and-living-in-new-york/

Edited March 7, 2016 by madmaverick

[verdana]

I've always wanted a murderless episode, I hope I've got the energy to want to watch it though, I may be all Locksated out by then lol. 

[turnitwayup]

Ikr? about those TV Line comments. I totally forgot that Jonathan Silverman is married to Jennifer Finnegan until I saw a pic probably from one of Nathan's live tweets at his house months ago. I connected Jonathan to being closer to the Devers than Krista/Nathan since Jennifer was doing sight seeing and Eurovision with the Devers in the summer. 

 

Murderless ep sounds interesting. Had no idea of the actor's name so seeing his pic, I was like it's Sonny.

 

With the announcements of casting for a few ABC pilots, it'll be curious to see which ones goes to series and as possible replacements for shows not getting renewed this season.

[BellyLaughter]

Those comments on the TVLine article about Silverman are relatively tame compared to past efforts. Even the trolls are fatiguing over this show!

[VinceW]

Completely agree.  That reviewer has a distinctive bias in the way she sees the show, and that was clear to me even several seasons ago in reading her stuff, which is why I only give it a skim when it's linked here.  I don't think she provides an objective view of the show.  She provides one point of view, yes, and if your likes and dislikes happen to coincide with hers, maybe you like her stuff better.  In my view, she always cherry picks things to fit her narrative about the show.  Sure, which fangirl isn't without their biases?  But if I have to read analyses from fans, I personally prefer reading the diverse points of view we have in here, which are subject to often vigorous debate. 

 

I don't want to get into a debate about ratings cause and effect because it's basically impossible to draw any robust conclusions from all the number of random variables.  Some people like to attribute the ratings decline to the birth of Castle P.I. (because they themselves don't like it? ;)), but if we're going to blame the decline on one specific thing, then any number of factors are fair game as well: the aborted wedding, fatigue from mombatross which also saw declined ratings as the arc went on, boredom with Caskett as happy couple, Caskett taking a time out from their marriage etc. etc.  I think the ratings picture is far more complex than that.  It could simply be that the show is a very old one and people are craving something new, and that ratings are declining across the board.  

 

Exactly, God forbid Castle get a "story arc" after how many seasons of supporting Beckett's story arcs? ;)  To me, it was natural as well that the writers turned to the other character after the mombatross was resolved.  Not that I think Marlowe's choice of some huge conspiracy resulting in a disappeared groom was a good one. ;)  If I recall correctly, it was mentioned that Adam Frost pitched the idea of Castle getting a P.I. licence in S7.  I'm not surprised the writers took that idea on board because it was a natural extension of Castle's work as a civilian consultant, plus it could create some conflict between Caskett which the writers love to do as a dramatic engine.  It would also give the titular Castle character something new to do, which he really hadn't gotten in all the seasons previously.  Beckett had her D.C. foray and her State Senator thing (still wtf thanks to Marlowe), so what was so unacceptable about Castle getting a P.I licence especially in the context of a show about crime investigation?  Gave the show and the character as well the whole ensemble more to play with and more flexibility.  Win win, in my opinion.

 

The P.I. arc in S7 was actually one of the creative highlights for me.  I liked the shake up in formula and there was a renewed energy to Castle, Caskett and the show.  That element of the show has been less successfully managed this season in that it's become more of a structural element rather than a character driven one as it was in S7.  It's a fair device for the writers to develop A and B stories for the two leads due to the constraints from reduced hours for the leads.  I watch Elementary and have noticed that they too are also doing more episodes where Sherlock investigates one crime and Watson investigates another.  They still share scenes of course and their paths do cross in the story, but they are no longer in every scene together and they are just in S4.  The husband and wife team on Madam Secretary also have their own separate stories in the majority of the episodes.  

 

So, no, I don't think there's anything so unusual with the evolved structure on Castle especially given that it's in its 8th season and the leads want less of the grind.  I feel like Yoda at this point.  Do or do not, there is no try.  Watch or do not watch if you don't like the changes.  But there's no use harping on how much shared screentime there was and how it's reduced this season.  From the minute new contracts were negotiated this season, the show had to evolve.

 

Just as I respect the right of Stana to leave the show if she wishes, I respect the right of the network and the other cast to want to continue with it if they want to.  It's a free choice for everyone.  You can't just demand a show end just because an actor chooses to walk away.  The network owns the show, not the actors.  No one is bigger than the show itself.  If the show continues in a format that you don't like as you only watched for one character, then don't watch.  Again, it's a free choice.

 

If the situation were reversed and people suspected Nathan wasn't inclined to continue, who knows maybe all the critics of the Castle P.I. stuff would be excited about Stana headlining the show and the show becoming an edgy, full on Badass Beckett extravaganza all of the time as the broken, but never defeated heroine struggles to recover from the second big tragedy of her life, the loss of Castle, as she continues to seek justice for all?  ;)   We'll never know.

 

I still think it's too soon to call it a spinoff until there actually is a spinoff.  The G.D.S. episode is one episode in the season where the P.I. stuff gets more focus in an episode about Castle's disappearance.  The very next one is one focused on Beckett.  Are people also concluding that there will be a spinoff of Beckett as a teacher at the police academy? ;)  It could be that things shook out the way they did because Stana wanted that particular time period off, it could be that the network is trying to keep their options open.  Smart thing to do, if faced with uncertainty from the actors.  

 

What I'm pretty sure is that the people who have been complaining about anything P.I., anything featuring less Beckett, anything with Alexis and Hayley all season won't like this week's episode regardless.  That's not going to change regardless of the quality of the episode.  I personally have low expectations for it because I don't think Hawley's the best writer and because there's an impossible mountain to climb re Castle's disappearance story after the hole Marlowe and Amann shoved it into. 

That is a nice hit piece on the Joy D'Angelo writings, but the truth hurts. She has been reporting and reviewing the Castle series since season 4 and her comments have always been objective until Marlowe went off the reservation in season 6 because he could no longer delay the marriage that the audience had waited for all this time. She has always been supportive of Marlowe's efforts until it became apparent that BTS issues were hurting the show since season 6 in order to accommodate restrictive contract clauses. All shows age, but that is a tired and worn out excuse for the recent drop in Castle ratings. Since the finale of season 7, the show has lost live viewership at a 40+% rate(12 episodes). After the fall hiatus and at the start of February sweeps, first run episodes have drawn less viewership than more recent rerun episodes from past seasons which is stunning for a long running successful show. The network trying to piggyback on fan loyalty over the Castle series in order to push another new show is nonsensical and it won't work. The show is aging, but so is NF.

[BellyLaughter]

That is a nice hit piece on the Joy D'Angelo writings, but the truth hurts. She has been reporting and reviewing the Castle series since season 4 and her comments have always been objective until Marlowe went off the reservation in season 6 because he could no longer delay the marriage that the audience had waited for all this time. She has always been supportive of Marlowe's efforts until it became apparent that BTS issues were hurting the show since season 6 in order to accommodate restrictive contract clauses. All shows age, but that is a tired and worn out excuse for the recent drop in Castle ratings. Since the finale of season 7, the show has lost live viewership at a 40+% rate(12 episodes). After the fall hiatus and at the start of February sweeps, first run episodes have drawn less viewership than more recent rerun episodes from past seasons which is stunning for a long running successful show. The network trying to piggyback on fan loyalty over the Castle series in order to push another new show is nonsensical and it won't work. The show is aging, but so is NF.

ITA. I will also add that if this situation was flipped and it was Stana and her loyal fanbase they were trying to push a new show off I would be equally annoyed.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Terrible episode tonight. Fitting the episode thread was forgotten, just like the actual episode will be in a few days.

[verdana]

Castle 8x15 Promo "Fidelis Ad Mortem"