Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[madmaverick]

39 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

Because right or wrong, whatever it was, whatever it wasn't, there was still an underlying layer of respect and realness. What happened wasn't to promote the show or themselves. Most of the time when stuff leaks to the tabloids it's from one camp or another. When you see "a source says" it's one of the publicists of the parties involved. Neither of them wanted to burn the other that way. No one is ever going to confirm that particular elephant. Nothing good will come of that, because while it should provide a certain level of empathy, it will just make someone a villain. Both of them actually depending on whom you speak to. 

Sigh.  Whatever happened must have been real otherwise it would not have generated the subsequent impact that it did.  I can only hope they still feel an  underlying layer of respect for each other despite everything that's happened, including how things were handled with Stana's exit and the show ending.  If either of them wanted to burn the other that way, I think I'd lose some respect for them.  I realize they're both flawed human beings like us all, but I don't want to think of them as people who want to intentionally hurt the other through PR games.  They both seem happy post Castle so perhaps it was all for the best, in terms of their personal well being.  I doubt we'll ever hear either speak about the elephant and that's probably wisest.

[BlakesMomma]

I think one could say, though, that some were hurt through intentional PR moves with all the hate that was, and still is, spewed at Fillion and the other cast members since the leak.  Yes Katic's people never specifically laid the blame for her exit at Fillion's feet, but they sure stood by and let her fans and the tabloids run with it when a simple tweet or statement from Stana or her reps could have put an end to a lot of it.  Although the worst of her fans probably wouldn't change their blame game no matter who said what.

[BellyLaughter]

9 hours ago, madmaverick said:

Sorry, what's JV?  I only know of it as joint venture in my world, but I don't think that's it here heh.

I remember thinking it perhaps not the wisest move to tell a reporter that she was developing a cable series while she was still employed on Castle last year, even though of course developing a series of any kind usually takes years.  But still, her then employer might not have been best pleased by her actively planning her future elsewhere and publicly sharing that.

Catherine Bell's a fair actress though I only know her from seeing a little bit of JAG but she seems to have disappeared after that long term series?  I haven't seen the male lead since either.  Maybe neither need to work that much after their financial cushion from JAG but it could also show that it's not so easy for leads coming off a long term show to move up, and I don't mean Hallmark movies.

I thought Stana's publicist was some big deal with some big name clients?  Maybe all they wanted was maximum publicity (I was a little surprised that Stana's wedding was used to generate some publicity as well after her self-proclaimed emphasis on privacy years ago), and she certainly ended up with more publicity than if she'd quietly left the show.  But yeah, I don't know that's worth it if her PR move would have made ABC displeased with her.  

It wasn't just the young female fans crying foul over alleged sexism; it was the self-righteous older female fanatics who were crazily crying foul over NF and Hawley being sexist misogynist bullies - on the evidence of what, exactly?- that annoyed me extremely.  Whatever their flaws as actors and showrunners or whatever their issues in their personal relationships with Stana, I don't think people deserve to have their character assassinated in that way and accused as such without evidence. Some of her crazier fans were already perpetuating this sexism narrative throughout S8 and earlier (blaming NF somehow for her S7 contract negotiations), and then it got completely out of hand as the way her exit was framed appeared to validate that narrative to her fans.  The victim/villain narrative doesn't play well with me either if it's a one sided PR manoeuvre more than anything that neglects one's own role in events.  I can't imagine all those accusations of sexism emanating from the leak endeared Stana/her team to those who got thrown under the bus as a result.  I wonder if a desire to get back at those people for whatever reason was part of the PR equation, or just seen as collateral damage in the Hollywood PR game.

I don't subscribe to victim narratives for a strong, independent woman like Stana either in her professional or her personal life.  As far as I'm concerned, she makes her own decisions, for better or for worse.  I think her wedding did take place during the hiatus, though she then took further time off during the season.   I don't think it's fruitful to compare career prospects of the cast members, and at this point, I think it's too soon to tell anything.  I think Stana probably did have higher hopes for that movie of hers than Lifetime.  But she does seem very excited about the off Broadway play given the PR frenzy.

But what scene was this?  I really don't recall.  I thought it looked like Stana's hand because of the watch, but I could be wrong.  

Maybe no one's completely clean in this mess, but I don't think it'd be smart for anyone thrown under the bus to leak anything further so I'm not surprised that ABC and Nathan had no comment except to wish Stana well.  I'm just curious if this kind of move and how it played out factors into future employment or not.  I think it's the thoughts of people in the industry that count more than what fans think. 

I have to say, I didn't foresee Castle getting dragged into drama and even tabloid territory.  It's a shame.

I shouldn't have neglected to mention that group of fans....the younger fans are led probably by naivety and a lack of life experience....the older fans....well they are a whole different beast and perhaps the group that carries the blame for most of the ugliness....especially as I suspect most of them know it's utter bullshit.....and that's where Stana and her PR team's role comes into it.  They could have controlled the narrative but chose not to....which sucks.  The fact that she was happy for that subset of fans to throw around such ugly and serious allegations is pretty stunning but hell it's Hollywood!!

[FlickerToAFlame]

Some of the Castle staff even "liked" some tweets about sexism being to blame. If I'm remembering correctly, Terri, Dara, and Rob Hanning. 

[FlickerToAFlame]

While I'm not one who believes the small amount of BTS footage we see (like the bloopers) really shows the status of the Nathan/Stana relationship, I do see a little annoyance on Stana's face at about 1:09. Otherwise any possible tension seems to be cut out for obvious reasons.  

[break21]

On 8/24/2016 at 8:53 PM, BlakesMomma said:

I think one could say, though, that some were hurt through intentional PR moves with all the hate that was, and still is, spewed at Fillion and the other cast members since the leak.  Yes Katic's people never specifically laid the blame for her exit at Fillion's feet, but they sure stood by and let her fans and the tabloids run with it when a simple tweet or statement from Stana or her reps could have put an end to a lot of it.  Although the worst of her fans probably wouldn't change their blame game no matter who said what.

This bugged me and still does.  Even if she hated NF with a vengance, her fans were threatening violence against all of the cast.  NF got death threats.  I think the classy thing to do would have been to go on social media and tell her fans to stop the violence crap.  It got so out of hand, I have no idea why she didn't feel the need to do something to stop it.  I'm not the nicest person on earth but I wouldn't have put up with that crap.

[anoldfriend]

1 hour ago, break21 said:

This bugged me and still does.  Even if she hated NF with a vengance, her fans were threatening violence against all of the cast.  NF got death threats.  I think the classy thing to do would have been to go on social media and tell her fans to stop the violence crap.  It got so out of hand, I have no idea why she didn't feel the need to do something to stop it.  I'm not the nicest person on earth but I wouldn't have put up with that crap.

Instead she tweeted thanking the fans for their support. #lulz

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, break21 said:

This bugged me and still does.  Even if she hated NF with a vengance, her fans were threatening violence against all of the cast.  NF got death threats.  I think the classy thing to do would have been to go on social media and tell her fans to stop the violence crap.  It got so out of hand, I have no idea why she didn't feel the need to do something to stop it.  I'm not the nicest person on earth but I wouldn't have put up with that crap.

Was there really anything she could have said after the initial story was out there? Once people reach the death threats to celebrity stage, nothing is going to talk them down. They would have said it's great Stana is so classy for lying to protect him or something. Those people are just crazy. No celebrity can help if some of their fans are crazy.

[madmaverick]

I don't fault Stana for not speaking out against the crazy amongst her fans, although I have to admit, I personally find it more satisfying when I see celebrities at least occasionally (who has time to do it all the time? ;)) call out unacceptable tweets that truly cross well and over the line.  Shame them at least, even if you don't shame them into shutting up permanently with their hate.  Some celebs adopt a more combative approach when their patience has run out; others prefer to remain silent.  From Stana no longer receiving fanmail, getting a bodyguard on set, one can surmise that she's unfortunately had some exposure to the crazy and probably wants to refrain from poking the beast.  I can understand that.  That said, a general message out to fans to refrain from hate speech and harassment or worse, would always be welcome.  It's ironic.  Often the people crying foul about bullying and such were the very ones engaging in cyber bullying against others in the name of Stana.  They claim she's their role model, and want to fight battles in her name, and yet their behavior was so abhorrent. The cult of celebrity worship is crazy.  Can deprive people of reason, objectivity, not to mention, good manners!

But if Stana's team really did fan the flames with the tabloids, knowing that untrue allegations would be made in them, then, well, that would make me lose some respect. It's one thing to do PR to make yourself look good; it's another to make yourself look good at the cost of throwing others unfairly under the bus and making them look terrible.

Edited August 26, 2016 by madmaverick

[break21]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

Was there really anything she could have said after the initial story was out there? Once people reach the death threats to celebrity stage, nothing is going to talk them down. They would have said it's great Stana is so classy for lying to protect him or something. Those people are just crazy. No celebrity can help if some of their fans are crazy.

IMO, she could have told her fans it wasn't acceptable.  Would it have stopped it, I don't know.  All I know is,  I would have done it.  I think it would have been better to do it than not to do it.    The crazies pretty much worship her so maybe they would have listened.  When people get into death threats, I personally wouldn't have stood for that.   I wonder if the cast took any action against the loons who threatened them.

[madmaverick]

I imagine the cast went on a blocking spree during that period.  Sad that even twitter newbies like Susan had to be subjected to the nasty side of twitter.  Though with those crazies, I'm sure they just went and set up other accounts.  There were quite a few "fans" who were even proud of being blocked, how many times and by whom, so there's no help for those people. ;)  Maybe it'd really hurt if Stana blocked them, but who knows how crazies would react.  Again, they'd probably just start another account and chalk it up to a mistake. ;)  If I were her, I'd have a few bodyguards with me at the theatre door for the off Broadway play.

What I want to know is how I can enjoy my next fandom without the crazy fringe element. ;)  Probably comes with the territory, unfortunately.

[pepper]

On 8/26/2016 at 7:23 PM, madmaverick said:

What I want to know is how I can enjoy my next fandom without the crazy fringe element. ;)  Probably comes with the territory, unfortunately.

I managed to enjoy my Castle fandom by never doing @ searches on twitter and simply reading the feeds of the few show-related people I followed, avoiding gossip sites and only reading well-moderated message boards where people type complete sentences. I've round that links to interviews can be found on those boards and comments (in complete sentences) allowed me to decide whether to follow the links. Resisting my own tendency to obsess, actually made it quite easy to avoid the obsessed-to-deranged end of the fan spectrum. Oh yeah, and I quickly wrote off tumblr as not a good use of my time.

[femmefan1946]

"Complete sentences". Yep.

I sell vintage postcards online, and illiteracy is not, as many complain, a new phenomenon. But there is certainly a link between the inability to write a sentence and inchoate rage.

 I understand why people use textspeak -- typing on a phone is hard-- but it is still possible to proofread.

Excuse me, I have to go chase those damn kids off my lawn.

[verdana]

Quote

 

Yeah, but less time or not, the show was 8 seasons in. And they worked together less because they didn't want to be near each other, hence the break up. And that was a Catch 22 since the audience hated it and wanted C/B back together.

And since Katic/Fillion likely didn't want togetherness, quitting was probably the only option left.

 

Yeah some fans tend to forget eight years is a LONG time on network TV, it's draining physically and emotionally plus it's rare that any show lasting that long will maintain anything like the quality (and audience interest) as they did at the start. Actors face burn out and eventual chronic boredom. Throw in the fact that it seems fairly clear (at least to me) that both leads didn't really want to spend much time working together for whatever reason then the show was adding a severe constraint on itself that simply couldn't be overcome.  Since Castle's success relied massively on their interactions and chemistry trying to get around that was next to impossible, the writers tried - the result was risible - I give you S8.

Quote

I just watched the bloopers, Stana doesn't look like she didn't want to be there.

I don't think she did either, it seemed obvious over the last year or so before Castle ended that she was disengaged both in terms of her performances on screen and behaviour outside the show.  Off the show I don't care about but I expect actors to be doing their job on it, they're getting paid enough.  I thought some of the acting from both Fillion and Katic was horrible at times. 

Quote

 

I don't subscribe to victim narratives for a strong, independent woman like Stana either in her professional or her personal life.  As far as I'm concerned, she makes her own decisions, for better or for worse.  I think her wedding did take place during the hiatus, though she then took further time off during the season.   I don't think it's fruitful to compare career prospects of the cast members, and at this point, I think it's too soon to tell anything.  I think Stana probably did have higher hopes for that movie of hers than Lifetime.  But she does seem very excited about the off Broadway play given the PR frenzy.

She got a raise, a producer credit, more time off.  If she didn't like those terms (and what's not to love?!), she didn't have to continue.  But she obviously did, so it was annoying to read all about how she was being cut out of episodes, out of DVD commentaries, out of bloopers, even, or so it was claimed before they came out. ;)  

They both stayed on the show way past it's sell by date, I don't think either lead came out smelling of roses TBH, they both in different ways talked about not sticking with something when it's run out of steam. Although Stana took a more pretentious tone in her commentaries I thought, talking about only being interested in the "art" which always makes my eyes roll when any actor does it and you look at their resumes which are often littered with stuff they clearly took for the pay cheque alone because there's zero artistic merit there. 

Quote

 

Many actresses out there in her age range are already relegated to mothers (and usually to actresses only 5 to 10 years their junior!), grandmothers (!), or sidekicks. It sucks, but there it is. For good or bad, if one never watched Castle, I doubt some still have any idea who she is. 

Whilst I agree with others here that it's impossible to say what will happen to the various cast members career wise but here goes I agree with the above, I doubt any one has a clue who Katic is unless they've watched Castle. I liked her playing Beckett, acting wise I thought she had certain weaknesses but if she avoids those she'd be okay, she's so-so nothing spectacular (although if you listen to her more rabid fans how SK hasn't won at least a dozen Oscars yet is a an abomination) but unfortunately she makes lousy choices in her other projects. I can see her disappearing either completely or popping up in Indy stuff and the odd guest appearance on some cable or network show in a minor role.

Quote

I've got another question. Why did she want to leave Castle so much? She might not be retired but she hasn't had much success outside Castle or shown any interest in changing that and her career doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Because she was bored playing Beckett and/or fed up with her co-star and pretending to get on with him? Eight years would be enough for me too I'd want to try something else plus she's not getting any younger, as a women in Hollywood your options drastically reduce as you get over 35.

Quote

I'd previously thought that any bts issues had climaxed around S5 (no pun intended heh), and things had settled more into a new normal after that with everyone moving on. I wouldn't have thought any animosity would peak again around S7/8, even with a marriage, unless perhaps there is more to the story than assumed.

Seems they went in peaks in troughs in their relationship but I agree that it seemed to reach a nadir at one point especially with Fillion, I found there were moments when it was super obvious he did not want to be interacting with her, his behaviour was just plain weird. But things did then appear to settle down but may be like you say something else happened which might have kicked it all off again. 

Quote

Was there really anything she could have said after the initial story was out there? Once people reach the death threats to celebrity stage, nothing is going to talk them down. They would have said it's great Stana is so classy for lying to protect him or something. Those people are just crazy. No celebrity can help if some of their fans are crazy.

I also don't see the point of adding anything to fuel the flames even with a defence of your co-star.  What I find especially obvious when trawling tumblr, twitter etc no matter what the story is that for many the narrative is already fixed in their heads and there is NOTHING that any one can say which will change their views it will only stir things up again. You're wasting your breath putting more out there, even if well intentioned. 

As to whether any of this fuss will affect Stana's career, I doubt it, Castle was small beer TV wise, it wasn't some huge headlining show with huge press/social media focus and the only people who follow this kind of thing intimately are on fan forums and the like. The general viewing public don't give a crap about any of this, if they like her on something else and her character touches a chord with them that's good enough, her career will take off again. Fans have very short memories for the most part, they'll have moved on to something else and it will be forgotten.  If she became a big deal on some other network she'll have those (possibly) pissed off ABC execs crawling over themselves to get her on board something of theirs no matter what she'd done in the past. That's Hollywood all anyone cares about - money - and hitching your bandwagon to whomever is going to generate more of it and bolster your status.  It's the only business where not only does bad behaviour seem to be tolerated it often bizarrely ends up being hugely rewarded in many cases. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

Quote

I  read about some alleged feud between Vin Diesel and The Rock recently on the set of their movie.  One of them was pissed with the other for various reasons and took to social media to vent, without being specific, about male costars.  Supposedly studio bosses and those on set were displeased with the one who tattle tailed because what goes on set is supposed to stay on set, and resolved privately, not aired publicly.  I can imagine circumstances where, as in politics, if you're perceived as a leaker, that can come back to bite you in the ass.  In the end, though, I think if you can make money for a studio, they'll be BFFs with you. ;)

Yeah I read about that and how he was dropping not too subtle hints about some of his co-stars being less than professional. The one I read said it was Scott Eastwood he was referring to? Personally I think it's bad form to act like this with your co workers throwing shade at them. I'm with the studio execs on this one, keep it classy, leave that shit in house and if you want to have it out with someone then do it face to face behind closed doors. Don't start stirring the pot in the media for your own agenda which encourages bad press for the project and possibly a lot of anger and upset as various fans (with conflicting loyalties) start tearing into each other defending their respective beloved star.

Also you may end up having to work with the person you slagged off again on another project or worse have your career in the doldrums and need a helping hand, I would have thought the less people you piss off in Hollywood the better.  I'm sure there are lots of stars who have worked with certain actors and thought "NEVER AGAIN" but kept quiet, been professionals and sold the movie like crazy and said what a great time they had blah blah - save that stuff for a dinner time story with close family and friends at home when you can hopefully have a bit of a laugh about it.  

Edited September 4, 2016 by verdana

[madmaverick]

Pepper, good call about the complete sentences heh. ;)  Sometimes I do despair for humanity.  I've made the mistake of thinking you can reason with the obsessed to deranged end of the fan spectrum with facts and logic, but nope, you actually can't.  But then the problem is they can end up dominating a comment space because all the rational adults with no time and patience for their brand of crazy end up leaving.

Again, I'm grateful for this moderated, adult haven of sanity for TV discussion.

Verdana, you're back!  Thought you'd ditched us for a new obsession. :P

Quote

 

Yeah some fans tend to forget eight years is a LONG time on network TV, it's draining physically and emotionally plus it's rare that any show lasting that long will maintain anything like the quality (and audience interest) as they did at the start.

 

Even if Castle had gotten a S9 with both leads, I highly doubt the show would have been of great quality.  The show's been a pale imitation of itself for many years now, and I don't see actors, or whatever writers or showrunners they had reversing that decline.  I've said before I'd hoped for a creative rejuvenation once Caskett got together but it never happened and arguably the show lost even more of its sense of storytelling after that, so I doubt it would have happened in a S9.  Even if there were a handful of quality episodes in latter seasons, the average quality over a 20+ep season had noticeably declined in my view.  If the show had a shorter season or was one of those shows with a reboot premise every season, perhaps it could have maintained quality for longer. But a procedural with a central love story narrative doesn't really have that many places to go story wise after so many years, unless they decided to change their approach to storytelling in the first place.  Less melodrama, more slice of life.  But they were never going to go there.

Quote

Although Stana took a more pretentious tone in her commentaries I thought, talking about only being interested in the "art" which always makes my eyes roll when any actor does it and you look at their resumes which are often littered with stuff they clearly took for the pay cheque alone because there's zero artistic merit there. 

I just think it's a lot easier to talk about art over finance when you've made millions off a TV show already. ;)   It's a matter of taste and perspective, but I personally think there are built in constraints that limit the artistic merit achievable in mos network TV procedurals.

Quote

What I find especially obvious when trawling tumblr, twitter etc no matter what the story is that for many the narrative is already fixed in their heads and there is NOTHING that any one can say which will change their views it will only stir things up again. You're wasting your breath putting more out there, even if well intentioned. 

This!!  I don't think some people will change their narratives even if any of the parties said something directly to their faces!  What amazes me, is how people never seem to get tired of repeating their pet narrative like a tape recorder (does repeating it a million times make it true or they just have too much time on their hands? ;)), and how they can weave together strange conspiracy theories and draw 'conclusions' that do not feel linked to reality.  Some fans seem to live in a separate universe.  Where they were on set and knew every single thing that happened over 8 years of course lol.

Quote

 

I liked her playing Beckett, acting wise I thought she had certain weaknesses but if she avoids those she'd be okay, she's so-so nothing spectacular (although if you listen to her more rabid fans how SK hasn't won at least a dozen Oscars yet is a an abomination) but unfortunately she makes lousy choices in her other projects.

 

I will be interested to see her work in Sister Cities and how her versatility is beyond Beckett. It's nice to see a project with so many women, about women, although Lifetime movies aren't really my thing and I hope it isn't too schmaltzy.  I think the actress from The Good Wife who is also in it is quite good as well.  And of course, Jacki Weaver is a top actress.

Edited September 4, 2016 by madmaverick

[KaveDweller]

Seems they went in peaks in troughs in their relationship but I agree that it seemed to reach a nadir at one point especially with Fillion, I found there were moments when it was super obvious he did not want to be interacting with her, his behaviour was just plain weird. But things did then appear to settle down but may be like you say something else happened which might have kicked it all off again.

I always thought something happened in season 6 that was the final straw with them. They had stopped doing interviews together long before that, but there were a few bloopers where you saw them joking around with each other in seasons 4 and 5 and they would occasionally mention each other in the press without seeming too annoyed. They even interacted a bit at Paleyfest in S4. At that point, I didn't even totally but that they hated each other, just that they weren't friends like they used to be. But at season 6 Paleyfest they didn't even look at each other. That was also the year Nathan did DVD commentary and mentioned every single cast member by name except Stana. Something seems to have shifted that year, but we'll clearly never know what.

but unfortunately she makes lousy choices in her other projects. I can see her disappearing either completely or popping up in Indy stuff and the odd guest appearance on some cable or network show in a minor role.

I really wonder about some of her side projects. Did she really think CBGB and whatever else she did was such great "art" that it was worth barely being seen, or were they the best roles she could get? Being the co-lead on a hit show (at one point) should have opened a few doors for her if she really wanted it to. I know she was limited to roles that filmed during the hiatus, but plenty of TV actors find small parts in mainstream films during their summer break. 

I haven't seen any of her other roles, so maybe they really are great pieces of art that tell better stories than blockbusters, but you'd think they would have gotten more attention if that was the case. I hope she starts to make better choices because I do like her and don't want her to totally disappear.

[verdana]

Quote

Verdana, you're back!  Thought you'd ditched us for a new obsession. :P

Sigh...alas no new obsession found. I do miss Castle despite the unholy debacle that was S8 and to think it's coming up to about the time S9 would have been starting up again.  Where has the summer gone? I shudder to think what I would have been watching, I still would have checked it out though.

Quote

But a procedural with a central love story narrative doesn't really have that many places to go story wise after so many years, unless they decided to change their approach to storytelling in the first place.  Less melodrama, more slice of life.  But they were never going to go there.

Agreed and that's especially true with the Castle writers who were already showing very little indication they had any intention of expanding on their relationship in any truly meaningful way which so many fans were screaming to see and proved so frustrating to someone like me who craves to see those "slice of life" moments. There was a huge laundry list of things fans would have loved to have seen and even when they did supposedly attempt to tick them off they were so superficially done it tended to be very unfulfilling even laughably silly.  

Quote

I really wonder about some of her side projects. Did she really think CBGB and whatever else she did was such great "art" that it was worth barely being seen, or were they the best roles she could get? 

May be that's a major part of the problem not that she necessarily consistently makes poor choices but that she doesn't get the opportunities for whatever reason to make any better choices - so takes what she can. 

Quote

They even interacted a bit at Paleyfest in S4. At that point, I didn't even totally but that they hated each other, just that they weren't friends like they used to be. But at season 6 Paleyfest they didn't even look at each other. That was also the year Nathan did DVD commentary and mentioned every single cast member by name except Stana. Something seems to have shifted that year, but we'll clearly never know what.

Oh yeah I remember someone mentioning the lack of an acknowledgement, that used to happen on twitter too, just made no sense if they got on and had a normal relationship.  It seemed so...deliberate and made even more weird by the fact Stana would mention him sometimes seemingly without any problems so what the hell was going on there? This was his co-star not some minor character he shared infrequent screentime or something. It's those kind of funny little things which fans brought up that got my radar pinging all was not well.

[BellyLaughter]

I was always really suprised that they couldn't even fake it just for the sake of good publicity....I mean how hard is it to just follow someone on Twitter or mention their name during a DVD commentary.....I never expected them to be friends but I was shocked that they couldn't even muster some fake "work friends" niceties for the sake of the product they were meant to be selling....  for example his deliberate misspelling of her character's name during live tweets was one of his more petty acts and soooooo unnecessary during a moment that should have been a positive thing for his show and its fans....

[WendyCR72]

I still won't indict Nathan about misspelling Beckett's name.  Maybe it was deliberate. Or maybe it was a simple error blown up into epic proportions.

[BellyLaughter]

A name he's seen in a script for 7 years?? 

Once is a mistake, twice is a pattern. 

[WendyCR72]

41 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

A name he's seen in a script for 7 years?? 

Once is a mistake, twice is a pattern. 

Disagree. I often misspell things I know well if I type fast. And trust me, I have a recurring habit of hitting the letter d rather than g if I am typing something that ends in g.

Like I said before, maybe he was being deliberate. But it could be a habit of adding a letter - of which I fail to see a huge issue about.

[BellyLaughter]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  It happened during a live tweet when he was being facetious about pretty much everything - so there's that - but it seemed passive aggressive to me and as I said before unnecessary.  

 

I also don't think it's a "huge" issue - I just used it as a small example of the weird, passive aggressive behaviour that went on throughout the run of the show that seemed unnecessary.  

Beckette with an e. Really?   And as I said before it wasn't just once....he used it several times during that live tweet.

Edited September 6, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[WendyCR72]

Indeed, we'll agree to disagree. Especially because the show's done and this seems pointless now. Onward for all actors involved, and good luck.

[KaveDweller]

19 hours ago, verdana said:

Oh yeah I remember someone mentioning the lack of an acknowledgement, that used to happen on twitter too, just made no sense if they got on and had a normal relationship.  It seemed so...deliberate and made even more weird by the fact Stana would mention him sometimes seemingly without any problems so what the hell was going on there? 

I think that's why Nathan got more flak about the whole feud thing than Stana. She seemed to be better at hiding how she felt. Or she was doing it to annoy him, but it still came across as being a bigger person to the fans.

17 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

I was always really suprised that they couldn't even fake it just for the sake of good publicity....I mean how hard is it to just follow someone on Twitter or mention their name during a DVD commentary.....

I know, they are actors right? They manage to look in love while exchanging wedding vows, but he can't say her name when his face isn't even on camera? Super weird.

And yeah, it doesn't really matter anymore, but every time it comes up I can't help but think how weird it is.

Edited September 6, 2016 by KaveDweller

[McManda]

3 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

Beckette with an e. Really?   And as I said before it wasn't just once....he used it several times during that live tweet.

For what it's worth, if he was on his phone (and I'd bet he was on his phone given inconsistent schedules and he doesn't strike me as someone to tie himself to a computer for a live tweet session with friends) ... autocorrect can do some dumb stuff. Like mine regularly corrects "I" and short words starting with "i" (like "in" or "it" or "if") to "ib". I don't know why, especially considering "ib" isn't word. Best I can figure is that the algorithm it uses gets confused and subs in "ib" because it could potentially be used as the end to a word. It's a minor inconvenience, but I'm not the one getting my online writing dissected for possible meaning. It wouldn't really surprise (hey, that auto corrected to AirPods!) me if "Beckett" became "Beckette" via keyboard algorithm, especially if he's using a third party keyboard. (For what it's worth, I like Swype better than Swiftkey overall.)

I'm not trying to explain away necessarily. I just don't think everything is a huge conspiracy. If I truly hate someone so much that I can't even be civil to them the last thing I'm going to do I'd be petty and passive aggressive. I'm going to do everything I can to ignore them, not try to goad them (or their acquaintances (in this case, online followers)) into a reaction. 

[madmaverick]

Maybe some things were deliberate, maybe some things were random omissions, maybe some things were just simple human errors, because they do happen. ;)  But what I definitely agree on is that simple unimportant things were often blown up into (crimes!) epic proportions by the fandom, particularly by those who were invested in hating a particular actor's guts and jumped on every excuse to bash.  It got crazy and ridiculous.  II mean, I remember people going into a frenzy and lambasting Nathan for not wishing Stana a Happy Birthday, not promoting her ATP projects, not congratulating her on this and that.  Crucified over a misspelling, deliberate or not.  When does it stop?!  Funny how he tended to be the only one who got bashed for not saying Happy Birthday on twitter, while whether their fellow costars wished anyone else a Happy Birthday on twitter never got anyone's attention (hate). ;)  I won't deny that he was curiously (or not so curiously ;)) silent on Stana in recent years, but he did speak about her when asked and replied to tweets about her on occasion, and did RT about ATP and PCA and whatever on occasion, but they are curiously forgotten. ;)  Stana did tweet him Happy Birthday if that means so much to some fans ;), but generally, she's rarely spoken of her own initiative about him in recent years either, and I haven't seen her promote any of his endeavours, charitable or otherwise, either.  Difference is, she doesn't get any flak for it.  I don't see why either of them should, to be honest.  They can each do their own thing on social media and aren't under any obligation to the other.   Other Castle actors don't tweet all that much about each other or cross promote other's projects either.  They've descended into mostly silence about the other on social media, but so what?  They don't owe us anything beyond their onscreen performances.  Do they have to make nice on social media just for the fans?  Yes, I'm sure some fans would be over the moon if they'd make love and flirty wildly on social media. ;)  I'd rather not be presented with something false.  Fans are too invested in who said what or didn't say what.  I'm so over how petty and obsessed some fans are with all that.  I think the actors themselves couldn't care less.  People read far too much into social media.  Maybe because it's their only glimpse of their interaction, but I think it's far from a complete picture of any relationship, when things were good or bad.  For what it's worth, they still follow each other on twitter.  But would it be the end of the world if they stopped following each other? ;)

And oh yeah, I don't see how anyone can go back to finger typing after swyping though you still get some errors.  I don't know how finger typing can work well for someone with the size of Nathan's hands on a small iphone.

[madmaverick]

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I think that's why Nathan got more flak about the whole feud thing than Stana. She seemed to be better at hiding how she felt. Or she was doing it to annoy him, but it still came across as being a bigger person to the fans.

I know, they are actors right? They manage to look in love while exchanging wedding vows, but he can't say her name when his face isn't even on camera? Super weird.

And yeah, it doesn't really matter anymore, but every time it comes up I can't help but think how weird it is.

He got more flak because:

a) Her fans especially the crazed ones who are the most vocal have had it in for him for years, and blame him for everything, period.

b) She seemed more PR conscious to me.  Or, her approach was to be PR proactive while his was to stay silent, whether it be about her or tabloid crap.  She was always more overtly into shipping Caskett and flirty with Nathan, whether or not that was PR for the show or her own genuine feelings.  He was always harder to read in that respect because he rarely commented, even years ago before there were rumours of feuding.

c) He's done the lion's share of interviews/promotion for Castle in recent years so fans hone in on any time he doesn't mention Stana. Or if he does, there's always something to nitpick. ;)  She's done fewer interviews about Castle so had less opportunity to mention or not mention Nathan.  I did note that both tended to credit the writing when asked about their chemistry with each other.  Neither really talked about each other in later years.

I never listened to the DVD commentaries so don't know what was said or not said.  But Nathan has mentioned Stana on occasion at events like cons and responded to questions about her.  But yes, he does tend to talk about Susan & Molly, Jon & Seamus more than he does her.  I just find it somewhat ironic that a party gets criticised for what he says or doesn't say in DVD commentaries and live tweets while another party gets no criticism for not doing DVD commentaries and live tweets at all.   

Without knowing anything about the intricacies of their personal relationship, I just think we're not in a position to really judge anything except their onscreen performances.

Edited September 6, 2016 by madmaverick

[Gant]

I remember that 'Beckette' debacle well, because it was the only live tweet by a cast member I ever managed to catch in real time, lol. Not that I ever made much of an effort as I don't really see the point. But because of its uniqueness for me, I remember it quite clearly. It was actually peppered with misspelled words, NF not only misspelled Beckett's name twice (which OK, I immediately thought was fraught with danger, lol), he also misspelled his own character's name and some other words too. In fact my impression was that he was a bit drunk or well on his way to it, lol.

No one made any conspiracy out of him misspelling Castle's name though. Maybe if there wasn't a juicier choice with the Beckett misspelling given, there would've been some noise made about him deliberately (one of the most used fandom words) disrespecting his own character or something like that, I heard that as well more than once. Actually the current discourse I believe is, that he both, hated and disrespected his character at every opportunity, making him an irrelevant buffoon and being generally disinterested and indifferent to the role and show; and that he was jealously coveting the badassness and drama of the Beckett part, trying to heap it all on himself but failing due to own ineptitude. So both misspellings could feed the fandom lore equally well.

[madmaverick]

Fascinating how the fan narrative keeps on shifting (oops mistyped 'shitting' there, but that could work as well heh), isn't it?  But the objective from the same group naturally stays the same. ;)   Just amazing how they conjure up all kinds of conspiracies.  Who needs facts when you have such a vivid imagination? 

[KaveDweller]

I never listened to the DVD commentaries so don't know what was said or not said.  But Nathan has mentioned Stana on occasion at events like cons and responded to questions about her.  But yes, he does tend to talk about Susan & Molly, Jon & Seamus more than he does her.  I just find it somewhat ironic that a party gets criticised for what he says or doesn't say in DVD commentaries and live tweets while another party gets no criticism for not doing DVD commentaries and live tweets at all.  

I agree that it's not fair for Nathan to get criticized for everything when Stana's fans explain away everything she does. Nathan did a lot of promotion for the show, he should get credit for that.

But. On the S6 commentary, Nathan went out of his way to mention every single cast member by name. The first time each of them appeared on screen he said, "and here's Molly Quinn, a lovely young actress," or "here's the talented Seamus Dever," etc. He did this for not just the main cast, but a lot of the guest stars. He did it for the background actor sweeping the floor. But when Stana was onscreen, he said nothing. Other people talked about her and he stopped talking until the subject changed. He barely even said anything about Beckett. And he did this same thing in two episodes, so there's no way the exclusion wasn't intentional. 

I'm not saying he's a horrible person for it, I'm just saying it was really weird. 

[madmaverick]

Yes, it does seem that he talks more about other actors or prefers not to mention Stana at all.  But, at the same time, what I'm saying is, Stana, nor any of the other actors, don't get flak for not mentioning Nathan or anybody else.  I don't actually recall the last time Stana voluntarily mentioned Nathan either, outside of a rare Happy Birthday tweet.  Would I rather they both gushed over each other like they did in early years?  Sure.  But we can't all get what we want. ;)

I'm not going to listen to the DVD commentary because they generally bore me, but could it be that he felt he had nothing left to add to what others said about Stana? It happens.  Also, yes, maybe he felt uncomfortable talking about her, who knows, none of us live inside his head. ;)  Stana hasn't done any DVD commentaries in seasons so I guess we'll never know if she would have talked about him either. ;)

And, I guess, what I'm saying is, ultimately does something like this really signify so much?  I don't think either would deny that the other contributed a great deal to the success of the show if asked. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by madmaverick

[KaveDweller]

46 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

I'm not going to listen to the DVD commentary because they generally bore me, but could it be that he felt he had nothing left to add to what others said about Stana? It happens.  Also, yes, maybe he felt uncomfortable talking about her, who knows, none of us live inside his head. ;)  Stana hasn't done any DVD commentaries in seasons so I guess we'll never know if she would have talked about him either. ;)

Well for other actors he didn't care if others had already said similar things or even if they were on a totally different topic. I think it's more likely he didn't have anything nice to say, so he didn't say anything at all.

My point wasn't that it's a big deal, just that it's one of many things that reveal the relationship. Most actors would just pretend, but he didn't bother, it makes me think it's a good story.

I would have been really curious to hear Stana's commentary, but maybe she had nothing nice to say either. I think she gets less criticism for not doing things like that because there's less to say about silence than the alternative. It's definitely out of balance.

Edited September 6, 2016 by KaveDweller

[madmaverick]

To be honest, I'm glad neither party made any feuding public.  I  don't think it would have been a credit to either party.  I don't know whether it really was one side's PR that went to the tabloids with the feuding, but if it was, I don't approve.  I think it's unfortunate that any of this ever popped up in tabloids. 

Yes, I would love to hear them say nice things about each other, but I don't want or need anyone to fake anything either.  With a certain audience (not referring to you Kave), even if Nathan complimented Stana, he wouldn't be believed.  He would have been accused of being insincere or trying to make nice for his own agenda etc.  Nothing he says or doesn't say would ever please a certain crowd.  I thought his parting note to Stana was fine, but obviously others disagreed.  What annoyed me was the perpetual double standards.  If she's silent, it's because she's taking the higher ground.   If he's silent, it's because he's a horrible person.  If he talks about Castle, it's not really promotion for the show.  If she does, it means the world.  And so it goes.

There were things that may have appeared revealing about the relationship.  But at the same time, we don't have any context and no first hand knowledge, so I'm wary of drawing any conclusions, especially from social media.  There's too much of that going on in fandom already.

[anoldfriend]

I don't think Nathan had to resort to purposely spelling "Beckett" wrong to manifest his negative feelings about Stana. Not wanting to work with her suited just fine.

Although he probably did get enjoyment that an autocorrect on ye olde iphone could send so many of her fans into a tizzy. I know I would.

[KaveDweller]

43 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

I don't think Nathan had to resort to purposely spelling "Beckett" wrong to manifest his negative feelings about Stana. Not wanting to work with her suited just fine.

Although he probably did get enjoyment that an autocorrect on ye olde iphone could send so many of her fans into a tizzy. I know I would.

Because you like crazy fans in a tizzy in general, or is it something specific about Stana's fans?

madmaverick, I agree I'm glad they managed to keep most of the feuding behind closed doors for the bulk of the shows run. Imagine if things were as bad as they were at end end for years?

[Thirteen]

1 hour ago, anoldfriend said:

I don't think Nathan had to resort to purposely spelling "Beckett" wrong to manifest his negative feelings about Stana. Not wanting to work with her suited just fine.

Although he probably did get enjoyment that an autocorrect on ye olde iphone could send so many of her fans into a tizzy. I know I would.

Please, could you explain to me why Nathan was granted that wish knowing full well that the two working together made the show or did ABC network and producers trust that the fans would be happy with it and hope that the show could go on, for at least, another season?

Edited September 6, 2016 by Thirteen

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Thirteen said:

Please, could you explain to me why Nathan was granted that wish

Who's to say the feeling wasn't mutual?

[chraume]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

madmaverick, I agree I'm glad they managed to keep most of the feuding behind closed doors for the bulk of the shows run. Imagine if things were as bad as they were at end end for years?

Oh, it would've been brutal. I actually have a lot of respect for both of them in that specific regard -- although they're both quite active on social media in different ways, neither of them drag their personal lives into the public all that much, and none of the passive-aggressive vague tweeting, either. They, and the network, have done a remarkably good job of keeping it all quiet the past few years. Obviously it was pretty clear to anyone paying attention (I'll also note that, on top of the commentaries, NF also took to just not tweeting during his livetweets whenever Beckett was onscreen, etc. etc.), and they certainly weren't actively hiding it, but I appreciate that everyone involved kind of let fans decide whether or not they wanted to believe the fandom rumours. Which is substantially more difficult to do now, unfortunately. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by chraume

[Thirteen]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Who's to say the feeling wasn't mutual?

Feelings aside, and I think their dislike for each other was mutual, Anoldfriend said in another post that Nathan didn't want to work with Stana.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Thirteen

[GoGiants]

On August 26, 2016 at 4:23 PM, madmaverick said:

What I want to know is how I can enjoy my next fandom without the crazy fringe element. ;)  Probably comes with the territory, unfortunately.

Avoid TV Line comment sections, lol!

I remember years ago reading an interview with an actor who came off somewhat pretentious but still quite likable. He felt (I am seriously paraphrasing) that an actor’s off screen life should be more of a mystery, so as not to detract from the story or characters. At the time, I didn’t think too much of it (except that I found it hilarious he was advocating mysterious off screen lives for actors in an interview about his acting and his life!), but in regards to Castle and any other show I may watch, I am heading towards a less is more mentality. I haven’t gone this deep with any other show I’ve watched. I’ve certainly enjoyed many shows over the years but this experience (this forum, following the show online etc) with Castle has been new for me. I too want to avoid the crazy and enjoy the good on my next go round (if there is one, no promising shows for me so far). 

 

On September 3, 2016 at 1:09 AM, verdana said:

I also don't see the point of adding anything to fuel the flames even with a defence of your co-star.  What I find especially obvious when trawling tumblr, twitter etc no matter what the story is that for many the narrative is already fixed in their heads and there is NOTHING that any one can say which will change their views it will only stir things up again. You're wasting your breath putting more out there, even if well intentioned. 

I don’t fault either party too much for what they did or didn’t say, tweet, favorite, comment etc over the years and in recent events in particular. Once that disaster was unleashed, I don’t think there is much that would’ve stopped it. Certainly not a few tweets or additional rounds of PR speak. I understand their minimal comments and their overall silence on the matter.

 

On September 4, 2016 at 2:42 PM, madmaverick said:

I will be interested to see her work in Sister Cities and how her versatility is beyond Beckett. It's nice to see a project with so many women, about women, although Lifetime movies aren't really my thing and I hope it isn't too schmaltzy. 

I will watch Sister Cities because I too am curious about SK in a non Beckett role. I wouldn't seek it out if it wasn't going to be on my TV shortly (doesn’t really look like my kind of thing). I watch Modern Family occasionally, so I'll see NF's turn there as well. I will certainly watch their projects if they appeal to me or if I stumble into them, but I won't seek them out solely because of their presence (that goes for the entire cast).

 

On September 4, 2016 at 11:42 PM, verdana said:

May be that's a major part of the problem not that she necessarily consistently makes poor choices but that she doesn't get the opportunities for whatever reason to make any better choices - so takes what she can.

I have always assumed her other roles are the best she can get. I’ve seen her comments about art etc but if recall correctly, she had a minor role in a Bond film (not high art!) pre-Castle. I imagine if the major roles were available to her (or really to any of the Castle cast) she’d take them. When I watch a new show (lately The Closer and Major Crimes), I am often taken aback by how many actors are actively working and are flying under the radar (at least to my perception). If I don’t watch a show or if the actor isn’t an A list type or somehow newsworthy, I usually won’t know them. I think it’s difficult for secondary and even some primary actors on network and cable shows to be incredibly well known outside of their fan bases and industry types, especially if they never can make a jump to something more high profile.

 

On September 5, 2016 at 6:53 PM, KaveDweller said:

And yeah, it doesn't really matter anymore, but every time it comes up I can't help but think how weird it is.

Agree so much! It's over and done but I'm still curious, lol. Human nature, I suppose? ;)

 

On September 6, 2016 at 10:12 AM, madmaverick said:

To be honest, I'm glad neither party made any feuding public.  I  don't think it would have been a credit to either party.  I don't know whether it really was one side's PR that went to the tabloids with the feuding, but if it was, I don't approve.  I think it's unfortunate that any of this ever popped up in tabloids.

Yeah, I wish it all could have stayed under wraps. It was a bad look for all involved (leads, network, showrunners etc). Even further PR machinations would just be another layer to this mess. What should have been a wrap to a reasonably successful series got  sunk by gossip and rumor.

 

Quote

There were things that may have appeared revealing about the relationship.  But at the same time, we don't have any context and no first hand knowledge, so I'm wary of drawing any conclusions, especially from social media.  There's too much of that going on in fandom already.

I agree! Judging intent, meaning and the reality of BTS situations based on tweets, bloopers, interviews, other BTS footage has always seemed rather dodgy territory to me. So much of the content viewers see/read is either off the cuff or heavily edited, processed and PR managed. Without any context or first person knowledge it is difficult to discern much (I can assume plenty, but that's a whole other animal and not particularly fair to anyone, lol ;)). This is typically why I shy away from these discussions. I do think something happened between them and I also think there was decent amount of dysfunction towards the end (not all of it centering on the leads, there was Network vs Studio drama, ABC schedule upheavals, show runner changes etc). There was just too much weirdness that can’t quite be explained away.     

Edited September 7, 2016 by GoGiants

[madmaverick]

I know others will disagree, but re-watching some bits and pieces of S8 (example), I thought they still had pretty good onscreen chemistry.  Especially when the writing wasn't too terrible. ;)  I don't think anyone unaware of bts issues would have found anything too amiss in their portrayal of a couple in love.  I won't deny that they had some occasional rough spots in their onscreen chemistry, and that chemistry itself had evolved/tempered in a way as the characters' relationship had evolved from WT/WT to a couple going steady, but by and large, when the writing was there, I found that the chemistry was still there.  But it is subjective and maybe part of it is to do with my built in investment in the relationship.  But I also don't think that you find the kind of onscreen chemistry they had so easily everywhere.  

[break21]

I've cared about 3 fandoms - X-files, Castle, and Friday Night Lights. My opinion, when it becomes clear the leads aren't getting along that's when the fandom gets crazy and takes sides.  Happened in X-files and Castle.  On Friday Night Lights, the leads became close friends, did a lot of press together, made it clear they liked each other and that was a very drama-free fandom.  There just wasn't anything to argue about in terms of the leads.  On the other 2 shows, it just all went to hell when it became clear the leads didn't like each other. 

[anoldfriend]

On 9/6/2016 at 11:13 AM, KaveDweller said:

Because you like crazy fans in a tizzy in general, or is it something specific about Stana's fans?

madmaverick, I agree I'm glad they managed to keep most of the feuding behind closed doors for the bulk of the shows run. Imagine if things were as bad as they were at end end for years?

Yes I enjoy general panic over things that don't matter. I find it fascinating. Makes me wonder what is missing from these people's lives that makes them react emotionally. I know that sounds snarky and mean, but it's not meant to be. I am genuinely curious.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to know, hell I'm a regular Talking Pearl when it comes to gossip. I'm interested. But I don't get upset. 

Television fans, especially those of pairings are the OGs of internet outrage and pitchfork mentality.

On 9/7/2016 at 6:35 AM, madmaverick said:

I know others will disagree, but re-watching some bits and pieces of S8 (example), I thought they still had pretty good onscreen chemistry.  Especially when the writing wasn't too terrible. ;)  I don't think anyone unaware of bts issues would have found anything too amiss in their portrayal of a couple in love.  I won't deny that they had some occasional rough spots in their onscreen chemistry, and that chemistry itself had evolved/tempered in a way as the characters' relationship had evolved from WT/WT to a couple going steady, but by and large, when the writing was there, I found that the chemistry was still there.  But it is subjective and maybe part of it is to do with my built in investment in the relationship.  But I also don't think that you find the kind of onscreen chemistry they had so easily everywhere.  

In all my cynicism, you will never hear me say that the onscreen chemistry wasn't fabulous to the bitter end. Had Nathan been kissing her ass up and down twitter, fans would have seen that last few seasons differently. I would bet everything I own on that.

I said Nathan specifically because in my studying of fan behavior I have noticed that the female actors seem to get a pass for their lack of participation in giving the fandom things to jerk off to. It all gets put on the males. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by anoldfriend

[anoldfriend]

On 9/6/2016 at 11:48 AM, Thirteen said:

Please, could you explain to me why Nathan was granted that wish knowing full well that the two working together made the show or did ABC network and producers trust that the fans would be happy with it and hope that the show could go on, for at least, another season?

No, because there is no reason in the world that fans will find acceptable.

[GoGiants]

11 hours ago, madmaverick said:

I know others will disagree, but re-watching some bits and pieces of S8 (example), I thought they still had pretty good onscreen chemistry.  Especially when the writing wasn't too terrible. ;)  I don't think anyone unaware of bts issues would have found anything too amiss in their portrayal of a couple in love.  I won't deny that they had some occasional rough spots in their onscreen chemistry, and that chemistry itself had evolved/tempered in a way as the characters' relationship had evolved from WT/WT to a couple going steady, but by and large, when the writing was there, I found that the chemistry was still there.  But it is subjective and maybe part of it is to do with my built in investment in the relationship.  But I also don't think that you find the kind of onscreen chemistry they had so easily everywhere.  

Your comment got me to re-watch some S8 scenes. The overall tone of the show was off in S8 for so many reasons both on and off screen (and discussed here!). When I set all of that aside and watch the anniversary scene, the motorcycle gift scene or the scene where they talked about traveling the world (among other scenes), it still felt mostly right to me as well. I still bought into the relationship (or wanted to  buy in), despite all the S8 annoyances. That is the bummer of S8. A lot of the pieces of what made the show enjoyable enough were still there. No real reason, to my mind, that S8 couldn't have been more like S7 in tone and story line. Not nearly as good as the older seasons, but also not the mess we ended up with.

Whatever the troubles were, they really did have great on screen chemistry over the seasons.

8 hours ago, break21 said:

On Friday Night Lights, the leads became close friends, did a lot of press together, made it clear they liked each other and that was a very drama-free fandom.  There just wasn't anything to argue about in terms of the leads.  On the other 2 shows, it just all went to hell when it became clear the leads didn't like each other. 

Sounds nice. I watched X-files but was completely oblivious as to the drama there until years later. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by GoGiants

[break21]

I'll say this about X-Files - they hated each other for years (have made up), but they never stopped doing promo together.  FNL leads just liked each other so it wasn't an issue.  I wish NF and SK would have gone X-Files way.

[GoGiants]

48 minutes ago, anoldfriend said:

No, because there is no reason in the world that fans will find acceptable.

So much truth in this comment. For certain fans, there is no response that will satisfy them.

15 minutes ago, break21 said:

I'll say this about X-Files - they hated each other for years (have made up), but they never stopped doing promo together.  FNL leads just liked each other so it wasn't an issue.  I wish NF and SK would have gone X-Files way.

I agree. Wish the drama could have stayed hidden under professionalism and PR tricks. I don't need the actors on the shows I watch to be best friends. It's nice to have pleasant work relationships, but if it's not possible, try to keep it quiet. I haven't had a workplace in my career that didn't have some form of occasional drama or difficult people, so I do think that's just life. 

If the issues don't affect the finished product, I'm fine. It's unfortunate that whatever happened had some role in the shows demise and the actual product the last couple of years.

[femmefan1946]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustForFun/YouKnowThatGuy

On 2016-09-06 at 7:32 PM, GoGiants said:

I am often taken aback by how many actors are actively working and are flying under the radar (at least to my perception). If I don’t watch a show or if the actor isn’t an A list type or somehow newsworthy, I usually won’t know them. I think it’s difficult for secondary and even some primary actors on network and cable shows to be incredibly well known outside of their fan bases and industry types, especially if they never can make a jump to something more high profile.

Like 'Vikram' showing up in a commercial, sometimes during the airing of Castle.

 

PS. Don't click on TV Tropes unless you want to spend the next four hours down the rabbit hole.

[madmaverick]

17 hours ago, GoGiants said:

That is the bummer of S8. A lot of the pieces of what made the show enjoyable enough were still there. No real reason, to my mind, that S8 couldn't have been more like S7 in tone and story line. Not nearly as good as the older seasons, but also not the mess we ended up with.

I think if they had excised everything to do with Loksat, which was like a dead weight on the show, or at least kept any big conspiracy away till the end, then the season would have been much better.  I never minded the P.I. stuff, and even if there was less Caskett screen time together, I would have liked the season better if it wasn't weighed down by a conspiracy I didn't care about, an inorganic separation in a new marriage, and damage to Beckett's characterisation.

16 hours ago, break21 said:

I'll say this about X-Files - they hated each other for years (have made up), but they never stopped doing promo together.  FNL leads just liked each other so it wasn't an issue.  I wish NF and SK would have gone X-Files way.

Well, you never know how they'll end up in another 10 years heh.  I wouldn't bet on them being as chummy as DD and GA Part II though. ;)

16 hours ago, GoGiants said:

 Wish the drama could have stayed hidden under professionalism and PR tricks. I don't need the actors on the shows I watch to be best friends. It's nice to have pleasant work relationships, but if it's not possible, try to keep it quiet. I haven't had a workplace in my career that didn't have some form of occasional drama or difficult people, so I do think that's just life. 

If the issues don't affect the finished product, I'm fine. It's unfortunate that whatever happened had some role in the shows demise and the actual product the last couple of years.

I think most casual viewers wouldn't have a clue about any bts issues until maybe if they came across the tawdry tabloids and internet clickbait at the end, which really was an unfortunate way to end.  Agreed that it's unfortunate if bts issues affected performances to some extent and the actual product.  But people aren't robots even if they are actors. ;)

Quote

 

Toks Olagundoye ‏@ToksOlagundoye  

Then people should unfollow me because I didn't spend my time at #Castle, nor do I spend my life handcuffed to her.

Hexokinase @PFK_FF

@ToksOlagundoye Unfortunately, I think any picture that Stana isn't in is going to get that type of reaction.

 

Not entirely sure what the drama was about but this tweet from Toks made me laugh.  Too bad there isn't some screencap of them handcuffed together from the show.  I gather some fan was indignant (again) over some photo with Castle cast without Stana in it, and Toks had to explain she wasn't on set that day.   Not the first time fans got angry over something like this.  I remember Toks going so far as to take a selfie with Stana on another day to placate angry fans, and Susan got grief for that completely nice and harmless photo she'd posted of Nathan, Molly and herself on a scooter on set with a family caption.  It just bewilders me that people get angry and upset over stuff like this.  And even now!  Crazy.  They need to chill and let it go already.  It's funny when fans get so indignant on their fave celebrity's behalf when I highly doubt Stana even cares about any of the petty stuff fans get angry over.  Why can't everyone just enjoy the next steps of everyone's careers, or just stop following people you don't care for?