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turnitwayup

By turnitwayup
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BellyLaughter

BellyLaughter

Thinking about all this gives me a sick headache, urggh.

Yeah that's a classic I hope it's been retired though.

That writer and muse stuff is over.

The focus on Castle's new partner and the family business promotion wise was a mistake since all the vast majority of fans want to hear about is Caskett but that's the path they've chosen to reboot the show so they weren't hiding anything in fact they couldn't have been more obvious about it. After this two parter is out the way, that's exactly what they're going back to showing you so if fans are expecting something else in 8.03 they're in for a shock. Castle and Alexis PI will return with Beckett poking her nose in now and again to help out on the case whilst kick ass Hayley and the boys "float" between them. If fans don't like that premise they're in for a long season.

Did Stana Katic really sign up for this?? Is this what she considers taking care of her character??

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WendyCR72
WendyCR72

Let me introduce you to How I Met Your Mother...

Sara2009
Sara2009

Tbh, this drama is more interesting than the show has been in quite some time.

oberon55
oberon55

This is completely true. But at the same time I watch TV for escape. I watch all kinds of shows & have different expectations depending on the show. When I watch gritty shows like Breaking Bad or

verdana

verdana

In any case does it really matter what happens? We've been here before. They'll potter along for X number of episodes like this until the writers (or the network) decide enough and magically get them together again, if we're very lucky we might get a decent well lit reunion scene out of it. Castle and Beckett will make yet more solemn vows to be open and honest with each other with no more lies in future etc then forget about it. 

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verdana

verdana

(edited)

Did Stana Katic really sign up for this?? Is this what she considers taking care of her character??

Her lack of shipping Caskett in the pre season has been fairly noticeable, may be she's ready for some "me" time and what could be better than focusing on Bracken drama and Captain Beckett at the precinct? Let Fillion go off play Castle PI.  It's probably been said here already, that what actors like doing doesn't necessarily tie in with fans desires, any way she's getting paid and got more time off for her own pet projects so may be she's past caring at this stage, just smile and milk it. 

Edited by verdana
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westwingfan

westwingfan

(edited)

That is what makes this whole thing frustrating. If you make Beckett captain, then that alone reduces the on-screen time between Beckett and Castle. It is natural that when Castle and Beckett do appear on screen, fans will want their money worth (so to speak). To then go ahead and go "LOL GUESS WHAT? WE'RE BREAKING THEM UP TOO", just seems moronic.

 

It is what it is I guess, but this whole premise seems set up to fail.

I think the premier didn't deserve a 1.17, but the ratings have never really been indicative of the actual quality of an episode, but the two-parter is not going to be indicative as to how all the new dynamics are going to work. We're not seeing Captain Beckett sitting behind his desk or Castle P.I. following errant wives with his new partner, or Caskett dealing with their "estrangement" so the ratings for the "normal" episodes could be embarrassing.

It could be that the two-parter ends with Caskett just festering, Castle had a very dark look in his eye as he embraced Beckett, and the split doesn't actaully happen until "PhDead" because Chad Creasey has said that his episode picks up where 8x02 left off and with Mr Smith making a reappearance it seems that, although the main case is about Castle going undercover as a professor to solve the crime, Beckett is still embroiled with the case from the two parter and this exacerbates Castle more and their argument from "XX" kicks off again and reaches a new level where they both say things in the heat of the moment and down the rabbit hole we go. As far as the argument in "XX" goes I thought it was one of their better ones as they trade blows rather than some of the more one sided ones in the past. It's easier to understand how this escalates even if we don't all agree with their POV.

Edited by westwingfan
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oberon55

oberon55

In any case does it really matter what happens? We've been here before. They'll potter along for X number of episodes like this until the writers (or the network) decide enough and magically get them together again, if we're very lucky we might get a decent well lit reunion scene out of it. Castle and Beckett will make yet more solemn vows to be open and honest with each other with no more lies in future etc then forget about it. 

 

This is it in a nutshell. Sadly I'm honestly losing my motivation to sit through another season of contrived reasons for them being apart. I have had a belly full of idiotic secrets & I don't give a rats ass who is wrong or who is right. It would have been nice if when they said "freshen up the show" they did not really mean "we will just regurgitate the same old shit we have been doing for years but this time it really really matters".

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BellyLaughter

BellyLaughter

(edited)

I am not so sure a reconciliation is on the cards...this season is feeling more and more like a spinoff that just isn't being called a spinoff! Either it works and S9 gets the green light or it doesn't and Castle ends its run as an 8 season show?!?!

When I saw his new office in the episode this week my heart sunk - that's not the show I want to watch but look how much money they are sinking into his bloody office!

I long for the days of a WRITER and his MUSE solving crimes together. I don't wanna watch some try hard version of James Bond with gadgets, secret rooms and bloody Alexis doing her best Money Penny impression!! WTF???

Edited by BellyLaughter
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verdana

verdana

(edited)

That is what makes this whole thing frustrating. If you make Beckett captain, then that alone reduces the on-screen time between Beckett and Castle. It is natural that when Castle and Beckett do appear on screen, fans will want their money worth (so to speak). To then go ahead and go "LOL GUESS WHAT? WE'RE BREAKING THEM UP TOO", just seems moronic.

 

It is what it is I guess, but this whole premise seems set up to fail.

This is what Winter said back in August:

"What we realized is that the best way to tell 'Castle's' stories is to have Castle investigating twisty, fun cases. And the best way to do that is to keep Beckett in the precinct," Winter said.

 

That's a load of bullshit, I don't see how they came to that conclusion honestly but then it's probably all PR posturing because limiting Beckett to the precinct is not going to expand your storytelling opportunities and certainly not for Castle and Beckett, I don't believe that for a minute. 

Edited by verdana
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westwingfan

westwingfan

This is what Winter said back in August:

That's a load of bullshit, I don't see how they came to that conclusion honestly but then it's probably all PR posturing because limiting Beckett to the precinct is not going to expand your storytelling opportunities and certainly not for Castle and Beckett, I don't believe that for a minute. 

I took that to mean that they would simply keep her a cop and not take up the option to have her run for political office. When they started talking about Captain Beckett they said she would be more hands on than Montgomery and Gates and we wouldn't be seeing her sitting in her office shuffling paper or attending meetings at 1PP all the time. But then when they started talking about Ryan and Espo it sounded like we wouldn't be seeing her on the streets as much either.

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verdana

verdana

When they started talking about Captain Beckett they said she would be more hands on than Montgomery and Gates and we wouldn't be seeing her sitting in her office shuffling paper or attending meetings at 1PP all the time.

Yeah I read that too and I'll be intrigued to see in subsequent episodes after the two parter how often she's outside the precinct with Castle because unless they plan to ignore the difference its surely going to be restrictive by the very nature of the job she's doing. 

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westwingfan

westwingfan

Yeah I read that too and I'll be intrigued to see in subsequent episodes after the two parter how often she's outside the precinct with Castle because unless they plan to ignore the difference its surely going to be restrictive by the very nature of the job she's doing. 

There was this from an interview with Seamus and Jon

 

Huertas: Yeah, like where every episode there is usually a murder we have to investigate, now with Beckett being the captain, she is responsible for every detective in the precinct and every murder in the precinct in our homicide division. You pretty much only see Ryan and Esposito on crime scenes and us taking point on those investigations, so that’s going to be a little bit different and a change for Ryan and Esposito and how each one of them kind of wants to grow in their positions. Seamus mentioned the sergeants’ exam, that’s going to be a storyline, point, you might see this year.

 

Full interview here.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/castle-season-8-scoop-jon-huertas-seamus-dever-129370141805.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

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verdana

verdana

Thanks, so they'll be at the crime scene taking the lead and Beckett won't be there which makes sense, I hope they make something out of her having increased responsibilities and that we see her wanting to discuss the pressure she's under with Castle seek his support, those are the kind of discussions they could have that don't interfere with the AG situation. I also hope we don't get too many interrogations I grew to dread them they were pure filler, nothing interesting about them at all. 

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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

That is such a weak excuse to split them up in my opinion. You're probably right, but I hate it.

It's a shame, because I feel like they have had Caskett stop keeping secrets from each other and grow from their past mistakes. This seems very contrived to create angst and I don't like them damaging the relationship like that. Or turning the discussion on the show to a Castle vs. Beckett thing.

 

I think someone here told you this already :p

Well, yes, but I didn't totally get how that would work.  But the secrets aspect sort of makes sense, at least from a plot perspective.  From a logic and character point of view it seems kind of crazy to me.

 

But the scene in the sneak was a really good scene, despite my not liking what was happening.  So maybe it will give of some decent scenes.

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Sonik Tooth

Sonik Tooth

This is what Winter said back in August:

 

"What we realized is that the best way to tell 'Castle's' stories is to have Castle investigating twisty, fun cases. And the best way to do that is to keep Beckett in the precinct," Winter said.

Depends on what he plans to do with his characters. If he’s enhancing certain character traits such as serious badass Beckett and funny working on twisty cases Castle, it sure would look ridiculous when they work together.

 

Speaking of Castle and watching Sneak Peek #1, I wish they would make up their mind about how the characters on the show are perceiving Castle. Is it normal Castle time, super Castle time like when he’s in on big, scary cases or Castle needs protecting time.

 

And I don’t know when this scene is happening and if there’s some explaining beforehand, but the lack of ability to understand the meaning of a classified operation on the one hand (Castle) and the lack of empathy from Beckett on the other hand, are kind of disconcerting.

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oberon55

oberon55

Well hell, all she had to say was that he slapped a class 7 distress code on her. It makes perfect sense now. It was life or death. Sort of like half the damn calls that come into a police station every day. What other choice did she have but to drop everything & go into super stealth killer mode. Sometimes I wonder how they can keep a straight face with some of these lines.

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femmefan1946

femmefan1946

The fact that they are married does not give him the right to know about an ongoing classified investigation and the fact that she left the AG does not alter the fact that she is till bound by the restrictions of that job,

 

No but she doesn't need to give him details.

Just tell her husband that she has been rescheduled and needs to liaise (that's totally a verb, right?) with the AG office. 'See you at dinner, honey!'

BTW, her Secret clearance may have lapsed since her days in DC.That doesn't mean she can tell secrets, but it does mean that before she could be pulled back into service, there should be background checks done again. 

I had Secret clearance before I retired from working for a Cabinet Minister which will lapse next year,  but the higher level one (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) was only good for five years and lapsed while I was in the Minister's Office.

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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

(edited)

Just tell her husband that she has been rescheduled and needs to liaise (that's totally a verb, right?) with the AG office. 'See you at dinner, honey!'

BTW, her Secret clearance may have lapsed since her days in DC.That doesn't mean she can tell secrets, but it does mean that before she could be pulled back into service, there should be background checks done again. 

 

Maybe this time the AG's office would notice her secret marriage to Rogan.

 

If Beckett had told Castle that the phone call was someone from the AG's office, he would have wanted to go to the meet with her.  He's not the kind of guy who can hear something like that and just let it go.  That's not to say Beckett was right to lie, but I'm sure that was going through her head.

 

But I do think we can all agree that even with Beckett in the wrong, it's not the same as her leaving him for another man (or a woman, hey's it's 2015) or just because she doesn't want him anymore. So for the fans that want to hate her, I sort of find that o be a big leap. But to each their own. 

 

I think if people want to hate her, they pretty much already do.  Same with people who want to hate Castle.  People don't really change their minds about characters 8 seasons in.  I know that if I am going to hate anyone over this, it will be the writers.

Edited by KaveDweller
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BellyLaughter

BellyLaughter

Maybe this time the AG's office would notice her secret marriage to Rogan.

If Beckett had told Castle that the phone call was someone from the AG's office, he would have wanted to go to the meet with her. He's not the kind of guy who can hear something like that and just let it go. That's not to say Beckett was right to lie, but I'm sure that was going through her head.

I think if people want to hate her, they pretty much already do. Same with people who want to hate Castle. People don't really change their minds about characters 8 seasons in. i know that if I am going to hate anyone over this, it will be the writers.

and you can throw in clueless network and studio execs as well!!

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Chado

Chado

(edited)
But I do think we can all agree that even with Beckett in the wrong, it's not the same as her leaving him for another man (or a woman, hey's it's 2015) or just because she doesn't want him anymore. So for the fans that want to hate her, I sort of find that o be a big leap. But to each their own. 

Do you personally think her actions are putting Castle, putting their relationship first? I really am failing to see how Beckett is doing that based off what I know.

 

It isn't the thought that she is leaving to be with someone else (nobody is thinking that, the show would die within minutes) but why Beckett is putting a case first (AGAIN) and shutting Castle out. We've been down this road a 1000 times. Isn't them being married meant to change things? Aren't the past 7 seasons meant to have shown character growth?

 

I'm cynical enough to call this what it is, a reset. Character development and realism be damned. This makes Beckett look bad, you don't even have to choose a "side" to say that.

Edited by Chado
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Sara2009

Sara2009

(edited)

I don't expect anyone to agree, but since Beckett is doing this because she thinks it will keep Castle safe, I consider it to be her putting him first. As in, his safety is her number one priority. She's not putting their relationship first, but she IS putting HIM first. I know most will disagree, but this is how I see it.

This is not to say that I agree with her methods, but I think I understand her intentions.

Edited by Sara2009
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VinceW

VinceW

(edited)

I don't expect anyone to agree, but since Beckett is doing this because she thinks it will keep Castle safe, I consider it to be her putting him first. As in, his safety is her number one priority. She's not putting their relationship first, but she IS putting HIM first. I know most will disagree, but this is how I see it.

This is not to say that I agree with her methods, but I think I understand her intentions.

Good point, but it all depends on what Rita, the stepmother brings to the story. I expect that the producers will be using her role to explain away somehow the need for a separation which they think will keep viewers watching. I expect that the reason will be very weak because we know that Beckett still keeps her full time captain position. It suggests that she will be working outside her change of command unless she becomes a FBI liaison. If it is not a national security issue, then it presents as Beckett keeping some kind of secret from Castle about the stepmother connection in his life and not an actual criminal case.

Edited by VinceW
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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

I don't expect anyone to agree, but since Beckett is doing this because she thinks it will keep Castle safe, I consider it to be her putting him first. As in, his safety is her number one priority. She's not putting their relationship first, but she IS putting HIM first. I know most will disagree, but this is how I see it.

This is not to say that I agree with her methods, but I think I understand her intentions.

 

I agree with you.  She is putting his well being above everything, even their relationship.  That's not necessarily the right call, but it doesn't seem like putting a case first.  At least not yet.

 

It suggests that she will be working outside her change of command unless she becomes a FBI liaison. If it is not a national security issue, then it presents as Beckett keeping some kind of secret from Castle about the stepmother connection in his life and not an actual criminal case.

 

I wonder if Beckett is going to get pulled in to an undercover thing for the FBI while still working for the NYPD. And Vickram is her liaison or something? Maybe that's why she has no repercussions with the NYPD, the FBI smooths things over because they want her help with the new super huge conspiracy?

 

There's a scene in XY where Castle sees the needle and thread he assumes Beckett used to stitch herself up.  You can see a bottle of vodka next to it....on rewatch (knowing that Castle's stepmother shows up) it reminded me of the scene where Martha stitched up James Brolin.  I wonder if that's intentional.

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Tim

Tim

Beckett: "The moment that I met you, my life became extraordinary. You taught me to be my best self, to look forward to tomorrow's adventure. When I was vulnerable, you were strong. I love you, Richard Castle and I want to live my life in the warmth of your smile and the strength of your embrace. I promise you I will love you. I will be your friend and your partner in crime and in life. Always."

 

Partner in crime and life is being tested a bit, and valid arguments on both side.  I know you can not divulge particulars but I can tell my wife it is classified and it is dropped, but I shudder to think if I went missing for 36hours what would happen to my home life, Just my opinion.  If Show Runners wanted to shake it up, they succeeded, time will see if Rick rolls over or he gets a pair as he has done so seldom in the past   Seems like we have heard the No More Secrets about as often as we used to hear IT's MY LIFE  

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VinceW

VinceW

I agree with you.  She is putting his well being above everything, even their relationship.  That's not necessarily the right call, but it doesn't seem like putting a case first.  At least not yet.

 

 

I wonder if Beckett is going to get pulled in to an undercover thing for the FBI while still working for the NYPD. And Vickram is her liaison or something? Maybe that's why she has no repercussions with the NYPD, the FBI smooths things over because they want her help with the new super huge conspiracy?

 

There's a scene in XY where Castle sees the needle and thread he assumes Beckett used to stitch herself up.  You can see a bottle of vodka next to it....on rewatch (knowing that Castle's stepmother shows up) it reminded me of the scene where Martha stitched up James Brolin.  I wonder if that's intentional.

Recall her last undercover assignment for the NYPD. She asked no questions and took unknown risks for the job and nearly got killed just because she could speak Russian. This story must be CIA related which we know the series does not handle that well.

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Sara2009

Sara2009

I can sort of see both sides. Beckett was wrong to lie and make Castle worry, but she also knew how he tends to interfere. Even if she had told him from the beginning that what she was doing was classified, he still would've found a way to get involved. Beckett's problem is keeping secrets, but Castle's is an inability to stay out of things.

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VinceW

VinceW

(edited)

....The worst case presents that she chose loyalty to her job again over Castle which has been her history and she becomes obsessed with a former FBI case spawned from her meeting with Bracken. I think that Beckett’s last comment 'No More Secrets' will be the reason that she feels the need to “breakup”. She either has more secrets to keep or in her mind if they are split up, she can avoid direct confrontation or lying to him in the future about any danger in order to keep him safe..... This presents as a very strange story line to pursue for very long because it damages her character given how well things have progressed between them since the wedding in season 7. 

..... Seems like we have heard the No More Secrets about as often as we used to hear IT's MY LIFE  

Great point. 'It's My Life' might become 'No More Secrets', but hard to tell without knowing Beckett's side of the story yet. Hopefully, she won't embrace the same kind of unhealthy obsessions from the past. 

Edited by VinceW
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Castle75

Castle75

I can sort of see both sides. Beckett was wrong to lie and make Castle worry, but she also knew how he tends to interfere. Even if she had told him from the beginning that what she was doing was classified, he still would've found a way to get involved. Beckett's problem is keeping secrets, but Castle's is an inability to stay out of things.

Which lends to their DNA. This is their XY & XX and who they are.

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Chado

Chado

I can decide if I hate it and not watch or be mad at them for it, but saying it's not about her wanting to protect Rick and that her true motivation is that she cares more about herself and the case is rewriting the story.

See I disagree with that. She has shown to be selfish and single-minded in the past, the whole "this is my life" speech etc. I don't think having her obsessed with the case/threat and breaking up with Castle to focus exclusively on that, is at all unlike her.

 

That's why I bring up the question of putting the relationship first, because leaving him so she doesn't have to deal with him......isn't putting the relationship first. I don't understand how it can be. Removing herself from him/them to focus on the case is a selfish thing, it's being single-minded.

 

Should she expect Castle to just wait around with open arms until she decides she can give him attention again?

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westwingfan

westwingfan

Yes. I absolutely think she is putting him first by not dragging him into this. Or trying not to but we know how that will probably turn out.

The point is that I go along with the intentions of the writers, and in this case they are showing Kate making a bad decision but she thinks she is doing the right thing.

I can decide if I hate it and not watch or be mad at them for it, but saying it's not about her wanting to protect Rick and that her true motivation is that she cares more about herself and the case is rewriting the story.

They have just started filming the seventh episode and in view of the poor ratings for the premier do you think they may be reconsidering the length of time they'd planned for this split to last, because historically the premier is one of the strongest episodes, and for the past couple of seasons the ratings have taken a dip after Christmas so we could be seeing below 1.0 for the demo not before long.

A lot of people seem convinced that this is the last season anyway but it seems that ABC have made more funds available this season, Alfred Sole mentioned that TPTB wanted the revamped P.I. office remodelled in a Bond style, but Castle has seen a 20% fall in the ad rates it will be charging this season and the blind item claimed that TPTB were prepared for a backlash, but if this hits them in the pocket, which is usually the only thing they are worried about, are they going to be happy.

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westwingfan

westwingfan

(edited)

They're filming the eighth episode.

 

But agree with what Hal said above it won't change the story, etc.

They are filming 8x08 yes, but they have filmed six episodes so far, therefore this will be the seventh, I did not mean it would necessarily be the seventh to air.

 

I think trying to equate story (that most viewers have no clue about) with ratings trends is a mistake.

If people moved on because they don't care about the show anymore it was due to last season, or season before. Not this opener. Internet fans and people who read spoilers don't control the ratings.

So no. Story isn't going to change.

I know everyone wants to make a case that the ratings are alarming but they aren't. It's an 8 year show and hardly a water cooler one. All things fizzle over time. Besides in +3 it was what 10 million viewers? In 2015 on an 8 year show...ABC is very happy with that.

Thanks for that

 

Interesting that Driven didn't seem to suffer as much from FBOW considering how many of us deplored that ep but I guess S7 ended lower. I guess the one thing that would have reached the general audience would have been the "Castle is back and he's got a new job" promo which didn't show any Caskett at all so that could have had a bearing as well

I often have discussions with people when they try to use the ratings to defend certain episodes because I am of the opinion that they are no reflection on the quality of the episode. I quite enjoyed the premier and am looking forward to part two but I'm not sure how long I'll hang around after that as I'm not a fan of the family business. It sounds like I've got to look at this as a new show but there are too many elements that make me unlikely to give it much of a chance, and without Stana I wouldn't even have given it a try.

 

So what would that make TPTB of L&O SVU which got a 1.9/8.8M for its opening SEVENTEENTH season in the 10pm slot.

Edited by westwingfan
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verdana

verdana

If I was a showrunner I'd want to try whenever possible to give fans a story they would thoroughly enjoy and make them eager to watch each week not one that's guaranteed to cause upset and heated (often circular) debate and doesn't play to the underlying fundamental strengths of the show but may be that's just me. 

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westwingfan

westwingfan

If I was a showrunner I'd want to try whenever possible to give fans a story they would thoroughly enjoy and make them eager to watch each week not one that's guaranteed to cause upset and heated (often circular) debate and doesn't play to the underlying fundamental strengths of the show but may be that's just me. 

You obviously wouldn't make a very good showrunner then. LOL

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verdana

verdana

(edited)

 

It would seem that Castle does get over his initial anger if he is the one who pursues Beckett to get her to change her mind after they've split.

 

I haven't watched the clip of their discussion (or read Joy's article) but picking up on this point, that's been the way of it from the start between these two. Castle always does the chasing against a resistant Beckett until she softens etc. I would expect that dynamic to continue here. Guy chases girl, she resists initially, she then succumbs and they're reunited, that's usually the traditional way they do things and Castle is a very traditional show. 

Edited by verdana
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Chado

Chado

(edited)

The only way Beckett would want to be with Castle again is if the threat is gone, so yeah...it's essentially Castle being very convincing/annoying or season long angst until they pick an episode to focus on the storyline again

Edited by Chado
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oberon55

oberon55

I don't think you have to worry about Beckett being the bad guy long. I will bet 100 dollars to a bucket of pig shit that Castle has his own secret(s). When it is all said and done all this season will ultimately do is test the viewers tolerance to plot driven characters doing stupid things until they can get back to where they started. Basically it will be just one big long circle jerk.

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westwingfan

westwingfan

I don't think you have to worry about Beckett being the bad guy long. I will bet 100 dollars to a bucket of pig shit that Castle has his own secret(s). When it is all said and done all this season will ultimately do is test the viewers tolerance to plot driven characters doing stupid things until they can get back to where they started. Basically it will be just one big long circle jerk.

Might depend who's got more pegs left.

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verdana

verdana

(edited)
Might depend who's got more pegs left.

 

Okay lets see where we are on that front.

 

Beckett suddenly finding out she had been married for fifteen years Marlowe admitted was a story designed "to take her down a peg in a way that's very endearing to Castle" so that presumably made them even or was Castle a few more pegs below her at that stage? Then Castle goes missing saving the world but we still don't know what really happened so does that take him back down a further notch? If Kate is found to be less than honest and open over this latest saga and she leaves him does that mean she falls not one peg but two? lol Then as oberon has points out it's almost certain that Castle is also holding on to a deep dark secret that will come out later so are we back to square one again with Kate the winner on pegs left or are they at level pegging? I really need a chart at this stage to keep score. 

Edited by verdana
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westwingfan

westwingfan

(edited)

Okay lets see where we are on that front.

 

Beckett suddenly finding out she had been married for fifteen years Marlowe admitted was a story designed "to take her down a peg in a way that's very endearing to Castle" so that presumably made them even or was Castle a few more pegs below her at that stage? Then Castle goes missing saving the world but we still don't know what really happened so does that take him back down a further notch? If Kate is found to be less than honest and open over this latest saga and she leaves him does that mean she falls not one peg but two? lol Then as oberon has points out it's almost certain that Castle is also holding on to a deep dark secret that will come out later so are we back to square one again with Kate the winner on pegs left or are they at level pegging? I really need a chart at this stage to keep score. 

Well Marlowe obviously did LOL

 

As he doesn't need it now perhaps you could ask him for his copy then it wouldn't take you so long to bring it up to date.

 

I remember having a discussion at the time about who measures a relationship by such things. A bit of a sad indictment of Marlowe's mindset in some ways. Let's hope the new showrunners are more adult about it, sounds like they've already ditched his promise to never separate them once he got them together. So what we knew, or think we knew is all going away in S8.

Edited by westwingfan
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oberon55

oberon55

At this stage the writers have an uphill battle convincing me that these two should even be together. They both will always be willing to break the others trust & to hurt each other for one misguided reason or another. Which to me means it is just a matter of time before their relationship is doomed. When the show ends no matter what new heartfelt promises they have made to each other it will leave me knowing that the other shoe is hovering over their heads & sooner or later it will fall.

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verdana

verdana

I remember having a discussion at the time about who measures a relationship by such things. A bit of a sad indictment of Marlowe's mindset in some ways.

 

Yeah it is. I thought it was pretty twisted TBH and I never understood how on earth he could develop that mindset (and worse was willing to admit to it) and employ it on a character he created that so many fans love and are very protective about (especially the younger ones to an almost unsettling degree at times). Unbelievable. 

 

Although to be fair since he wrote that episode with Terri I wonder who actually thought that idea up first? Guess it doesn't really matter it won't make the story any better knowing. 

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verdana

verdana

(edited)

At this stage the writers have an uphill battle convincing me that these two should even be together. They both will always be willing to break the others trust & to hurt each other for one misguided reason or another. Which to me means it is just a matter of time before their relationship is doomed. When the show ends no matter what new heartfelt promises they have made to each other it will leave me knowing that the other shoe is hovering over their heads & sooner or later it will fall.

Once the show is over, I'll copy what I've seen many fans do with events that have upset them on their beloved show. I'll pretend certain things never happened (Beckett kissing Vaughn, the horrible proposal, Rogan, Kate's first wedding dress, Castle's disappearance) or overlay events with my own alternate reality based on some great "fix it" fanfic I've read over the years by amateur writers that have produced far better quality characterisation than anything Marlowe an co employed. This will enable me to remain in a happy bubble of self delusion believing Castle and Beckett are perfect for each other in every conceivable way and they'll go on to have two or three gorgeous blue eyed, brown haired babies and will live happily ever after in marital harmony heh.  

Edited by verdana
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