Criminal Minds Spinoff

[hazel0711]

Anyone looking forward?

 

Context:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/12/12/criminal-minds-spinoff/

[MCatry]

I am not really interested in this just because it is a spin off of the original series.

The one reason this show still is alive is the cast. The actors and actresses are the ones responsible for keeping the people in front of the tv. Despite how awful, boring, inaccurate or plain silly some episodes have been, specially along the last seasons, we keep coming because of the cast.

This article states that the CBS wants an entirely new cast, and it looks as if they would want to make a slight copy of 'crossing lines' and 'banged up abroad', which has nothing to do with the original concept of criminal minds (chasing serial killers).

I don't think this should be called a spin off.

They want to use criminal minds to pump up another show, yes, but this is not a spin off at all.

Unless they decide they could use some criminal minds cast members. I wouldn't mind if they take away a couple of blondies from CM.

[missmycat]

I am not really interested in this just because it is a spin off of the original series.

The one reason this show still is alive is the cast. The actors and actresses are the ones responsible for keeping the people in front of the tv. Despite how awful, boring, inaccurate or plain silly some episodes have been, specially along the last seasons, we keep coming because of the cast.

This article states that the CBS wants an entirely new cast, and it looks as if they would want to make a slight copy of 'crossing lines' and 'banged up abroad', which has nothing to do with the original concept of criminal minds (chasing serial killers).

I don't think this should be called a spin off.

They want to use criminal minds to pump up another show, yes, but this is not a spin off at all.

Unless they decide they could use some criminal minds cast members. I wouldn't mind if they take away a couple of blondies from CM.

I would be totally fine with that as long as EM went with them. And then hopefully CM would get a better show runner. My only concern is Janine might be the one stepping up to the plate as CM's next show runner were Erica to indeed step down in order to run this so called spin off.

[Old Dog]

I would be totally fine with that as long as EM went with them. And then hopefully CM would get a better show runner. My only concern is Janine might be the one stepping up to the plate as CM's next show runner were Erica to indeed step down in order to run this so called spin off.

I thought I had read that Janine has another big project in the works though?

[spinner33]

I'm all for it if it means Messer will leave and take Cook with her!  Good riddance! 

 

Maybe with them both gone, CM can get a better showrunner, and get back to its original premise, instead of being used as a showcase for Messer's favorite Mary Sue. 

[zannej]

I admit, I did hope they would take JJ with them on the new spinoff. I'm not at all interested in it. I do worry that this show will suffer even more because Erica might be busy with the spinoff-- that is sort of what happened in season 6 when Ed was busy focusing on the spinoff and didn't have time to focus on the original show. Of course, maybe its a sign that they think this is the last season and they are sort of passing the torch. I still can't help but feel that there is an overall lack of enthusiasm from many people involved on the current show and they are ready to move on.

[spinner33]

You do have a very valid point, zannej, that the original show might suffer if Messer gets to helm both projects.  =(   

[alexvillage]

Hasn't this been tried before? 

I would totally support EM taking AJC by the hand and going to new pastures.

But I would prefer that instead of a spinoff, they would go for a SPINOUT - Spinout Of Sight

[ForeverAlone]

From what I understand, Ed was never supposed to showrun the spinoff. But when CBS was not happy with Chris Mundy's work as the showrunner (at least that was the gossip at the time), CBS let him go and called on Ed to become the spinoff showrunner. If Erica left to the spinoff, someone else would likely step into the mother ship's showrunner role. Which I am fine with as long as they don't promote from in house, because I don't think any of them are qualified to reinvigorate Criminal Minds.

[normasm]

This article states that the CBS wants an entirely new cast, and it looks as if they would want to make a slight copy of 'crossing lines' and 'banged up abroad', which has nothing to do with the original concept of criminal minds (chasing serial killers).

 

 

McCatry, another article states "We’re told the show is likely to have an entirely different cast than the original series, which is on its 10th year, but network sources say that factor has yet to be determined."

 

I'm pretty sure they are going to see what the fandom does (how many squeals they get for JJ to have her own show), and will probably spin her off, maybe with Morgan. If they do that, I'm thinking CM Original Recipe is toast. Think about it, they would have to have Garcia if they have Morgan, and then they would probably make room for Rossi or even Prentiss (what's with that tweet already?). Possibly CM could fly with Hotch, Rossi, Reid and Callahan, with Kevin as tech, but I doubt it would last more than one season. And i very much doubt TG or MGG would want to sign another 2-year contract.

 

So, if they are poaching JJ, their aim is to shut the CM doors next season, IMO.

[Danielg342]

I'll reserve my judgement until the show premieres, though I hope it's not the end of CM (maybe, hopefully, the end of Messer with CM). I certainly think it would be odd if CBS uses the spinoff to end CM this year, since it would seem like it was a waste of time bringing in Jennifer Love Hewitt.

What I do like is that the new spinoff seems to actually have a workable premise this time, unlike “Suspect Behaviour” which never made any sense. So from that perspective, I already like the idea. They just have to execute...which I'm not sure these writers are capable of doing.

[SSAHotchner]

I am not really interested in this just because it is a spin off of the original series.

The one reason this show still is alive is the cast. The actors and actresses are the ones responsible for keeping the people in front of the tv. Despite how awful, boring, inaccurate or plain silly some episodes have been, specially along the last seasons, we keep coming because of the cast.

This article states that the CBS wants an entirely new cast, and it looks as if they would want to make a slight copy of 'crossing lines' and 'banged up abroad', which has nothing to do with the original concept of criminal minds (chasing serial killers).

I don't think this should be called a spin off.

They want to use criminal minds to pump up another show, yes, but this is not a spin off at all.

Unless they decide they could use some criminal minds cast members. I wouldn't mind if they take away a couple of blondies from CM.

Yes, that was the worst part about the previous spinoff. There was zero chemistry between any of the team members. I have no idea why they'd try this now. If CM is over, just let it die. You'd think they'd realize after the last fiasco that the viewers won't support another show merely because it has the CM name associated with it.

[spinner33]

Wasn't there a rumor at one time that Messer wanted to do a two-person team show where they travelled around rescuing people in danger?   They were going to call it Darkness Falls or something like that?  Two superheroes, or FBI agents, or whatever, roaming the country, saving people in trouble?  I mean, gee, that sounds familiar, and not just because I'm an on again, off again fan of Supernatural.   =\ 

Edited December 14, 2014 by spinner33

[MCatry]

 

Wasn't there a rumor at one time that Messer wanted to do a two-person team show where they travelled around rescuing people in danger?   They were going to call it Darkness Falls or something like that?  Two superheroes, or FBI agents, or whatever, roaming the country, saving people in trouble?

 

Do you remember that article that popped up in 2013, regarding a possible JJ & Morgan spinoff?

I wonder if that's the reason why Messer kept changing the Criminal Minds original concept, in order to accomplish her own agenda...

If that's the case, I hope her new show sink as hard and fast as the Titanic.

 

[Knittzu]

So, the FBI has to go around the world solving crimes that Americans commit in other countries? Gee, I can't see how that concept could offend anyone! Considering how utterly mess up our own system of justice is, we have no right at all to be exporting it. How would that work, anyhow? The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction in other countries. And other countries don't want or need our "help" in their legal affairs. 

 

It seems especially ill-times considering the recent torture report. Who in their right might would let an American with authority have a go at one of their citizens? "I'm just going interrogate this guy--" "OH NO YOU'RE NOT! BACK ON YOUR PLANE! GO, go now!!"

[Danielg342]

Do you remember that article that popped up in 2013, regarding a possible JJ & Morgan spinoff?

I wonder if that's the reason why Messer kept changing the Criminal Minds original concept, in order to accomplish her own agenda...

If that's the case, I hope her new show sink as hard and fast as the Titanic.

Can you provide me a link? I can't find that article.

[MCatry]

Here is the link, although I checked, and it is no longer working.

http://www.theloop.ca/showbiz/tv-guide/news/article/-/a/2538946/-Criminal-Minds-JJ-and-Morgan-spin-off-brewing-

 

I remember I read that and we discuss it in TWoP.

I just googled for it again and all I found was a conversation in another CM forum. It contains at least some comments regarding that article>

 

http://criminalmindsroundtable.blogspot.com.ar/2014/02/criminal-minds-season-9-915-mr-mrs_19.html

 

In any case, the JJ and Morgan show is not a new idea. The first time I heard about it was back in 2013.

I wonder why they think now is just the right time to release this spinoff...

 

[zannej]

US TV shows tend to play fast and loose with who has jurisdiction and how much power people have. For instance, NCIS is totally bogus because they wouldn't actually have any jurisdiction off of base grounds. They might have a little bit of power when it comes to members of the military, but they have zero jurisdiction and power over nonmilitary personnel who are not on military grounds. But that entire show is pretty ludicrous anyway. I admit that I do like the one with Chris O'Donnel.

 

I don't know if the spinoff will have the FBI agents having any authority when they are traveling. Realistically they can give advice and help to other agencies abroad, but they have zero authority/jurisdiction. I'm sure that the spinoff will probably completely ignore all of that though. It would be interesting to see them handling cases in US territories and commonwealths.

[normasm]

I just hope MGG has nothing to do with it (the spinoff). If another show rushes CM's demise, I'm OK with that if it can't go back to a semblance of what it was.

Edited December 14, 2014 by normasm

[Danielg342]

Now I seem to remember the discussion about the JJ/Morgan show. Thanks MCatry. I will say that this time around there's no guarantee that this new spinoff will be the JJ/Morgan idea, which, upon reading about the article, was pure speculation by a single journalist.

Not that I think it'd be a good idea anyway...I always maintained that the first spinoff should have been about the JTF-12 team that Doyle hunted down, because that had a workable premise (profiling terrorists) and would have been a natural landing spot for Prentiss. I still hold out hope that could be what we'll get, but I doubt it.

Of course, I always believed the best “spin off” to CM would be a show centered around Reid. He has a lot of quirks that just begs for someone to expand on them, and I think Matthew Gray Gubler is great enough as an actor that he can hold down his own show. Only issue is that Elementary went into the toilet pretty quickly and CBS might be leery about creating another show about a “quirky investigator” but I think Reid and Gubler would be much more likeable than Johnny Lee Miller's Sherlock and I would hope Reid's show would have much better writers.

[william0102]

Not to be mean, but I saw the title of the thread and thought "but CM already has a spinoff, it's called Stalker." Both with scare porn, out of jurisdiction cases, and only still on the air because of the cast.

[zannej]

I thought Stalker wasn't getting renewed... The cast on it wasn't impressive to me.

[Danielg342]

I thought Stalker wasn't getting renewed... The cast on it wasn't impressive to me.

Nothing official yet, obviously, but its episode order was cut from 20 to 17, which TVbytheNumbers says is a good indicator it will get canned.

Which...going forward, might not be a good sign for the CM spinoff. Stalker was often compared (wrongly I think) to CM and the fact that it failed may indicate to CBS that the public might not want more clones. Of course, Stalker- from what I saw (the pilot and 01.06)- suffered from weak writing and weaker characters, so the spinoff might have a chance if it avoids that.

[zannej]

Stalker was interesting in the pilot but the main male character was kind of creepy and not very likable. the main female character was sort of bland feeling but then she did something at the end of the pilot that made me not want to watch. Granted, I caught a later episode and it came back to bite her. I think one of the main failings is the lack of interesting main characters. I mean, I think they are somewhat interesting on paper, but on the show they just fall flat.

 

In order for the CM spinoff to work, they have to find a good cast who have good chemistry. The lack of chemistry was one of the downfalls of the previous spinoff.

Edited December 15, 2014 by zannej

[missmycat]

The best case scenario should CBS give this a go ahead would be for EM to leave taking half of these writers with her as well as AJC. If however the actress stays with the original CM, the next best case scenario would be for the show to get a show runner(preferably a male and an outsider) who unlike EM wasn't all kinds of enamored with the JJ character. One who wouldn't insist that JJ be prominent in just about every single episode and that JJ dominate just about every scene she is in. In other words a show runner that wouldn't insist on treating the #6 billed actress in a cast of 7 as though she were the star of the show.

[spinner33]

Missmycat, I wish I could like your comment several times! :) 

[Old Dog]

It's quiet in here! Is everyone already on their Christmas festivities?

 

Barb posted this link on the Bullpen so what do we think about the casting news for the spin off? Monty sounds like the child of Reid and Garcia!!!

 

http://southwestcasting.blogspot.com.br/2014/12/cbs-criminal-minds-spin-off-seeks-actor.html

[normasm]

It sounds totally hokey. Depressing.

You havin' a merry one, old dog?

[Old Dog]

Nice and quiet. I'm too old for all the commercialism of Christmas. A glass of chilled Chablis, some nice snackage and Netflix and I'm all set. You, Normasm?

[spinner33]

Messer and her posse aren't smart enough to write for Reid, but they're going to create a super intelligent prodigy computer geek and robotics expert?  Really?  

 

It sounds like they’re trying to check off every possible PC label they can hit with the character.   Along with being an orphan, a genius, a hacker, a robotics expert, and whatever, if he’s also a minority and he’s not straight, then they get a gold star and a pat on the head for creating the perfect politically-correct construct!  Representation is essential, no question about that, but whoa, let's try for realism too, could we?  How about one or two of the PC labels instead of all 7 or 8?   

[normasm]

Nice and quiet. I'm too old for all the commercialism of Christmas. A glass of chilled Chablis, some nice snackage and Netflix and I'm all set. You, Normasm?

Still doin the Fam thing, but it gets smaller every year. I'll come to yours next time!

[Old Dog]

You would be very welcome! I could offer you a quiet English Christmas. I might even break out the sloe gin!

[Danielg342]

I think I got multiple toothaches reading the description for Monty. Talk about your glurge- is there any checkbox for “character that pulls at your heartstrings” the casting director didn't check?

“Mack knew Monty’s big brain was only matched by his even bigger heart and recruited him to the team.”

Blech.

[Droogie]

Messer and her posse aren't smart enough to write for Reid, but they're going to create a super intelligent prodigy computer geek and robotics expert? Really?

It sounds like they’re trying to check off every possible PC label they can hit with the character. Along with being an orphan, a genius, a hacker, a robotics expert, and whatever, if he’s also a minority and he’s not straight, then they get a gold star and a pat on the head for creating the perfect politically-correct construct! Representation is essential, no question about that, but whoa, let's try for realism too, could we? How about one or two of the PC labels instead of all 7 or 8?

I was all kinds of annoyed reading the character description exactly because of that. They can't use some of that energy to give more of an arc to Spencer Reid? A character we already know and love?

The only way I'll watch it is if Reid/Hotch/Rossi make an appearance.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Droogie

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Messer and her posse aren't smart enough to write for Reid, but they're going to create a super intelligent prodigy computer geek and robotics expert?  Really?  

 

It sounds like they’re trying to check off every possible PC label they can hit with the character.   Along with being an orphan, a genius, a hacker, a robotics expert, and whatever, if he’s also a minority and he’s not straight, then they get a gold star and a pat on the head for creating the perfect politically-correct construct!  Representation is essential, no question about that, but whoa, let's try for realism too, could we?  How about one or two of the PC labels instead of all 7 or 8?   

 

We haven't asked the really important question yet, you guys. Is he a parent? If he's a single father, Erica will truly have made the hat trick.

[Knittzu]

Rather than creating Reid 2.0, couldn't they just write for the Reid they already have?

And since they clearly have absolutely no interest in doing that... why on earth are they creating Reid 2.0?

It's all so confusing.

 

I have little kids so my house is an explosion of Christmas madness. 

[Lebanna]

Okay, so the spin off has Mack, Sims, Lambert and Monty so far. Do we have any ideas what these other characters are supposed to be yet?

New NCIS: New Orleans already has an African-American disabled computer tech character, so they might not even be as original with Monty here as they think. Of course, on NCIS that character is not also sweet enough to make me throw up on my own shoes, so there is that.

[spinner33]

Maybe they feel pulling at fans' heartstrings will ramp up their affection for the character, but honestly, you have to let people like or dislike your characters on their own merit.

When I feel like I'm being emotionally manipulated into liking someone, or being chastised if I don't like someone, it makes me like them even less.

[normasm]

Maybe they feel pulling at fans' heartstrings will ramp up their affection for the character, but honestly, you have to let people like or dislike your characters on their own merit.

When I feel like I'm being emotionally manipulated into liking someone, or being chastised if I don't like someone, it makes me like them even less.

 

This is why, as they have made her more and more precious, I have lost my love for Garcia. By the same token, as they have attempted to show how motherly and yet badass JJ is, I have lost all interest in her. It's almost come to the point that I don't want them to write Reid stories and arcs, because I'm afraid they'll ruin him, too.

Edited December 23, 2014 by normasm

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Sigh. Watching ION right now (Nameless, Faceless is currently airing), and they're going to run the original spinoff, if that's not an oxymoron. I don't know if this is going to be a permanent thing, as Suspect Behavior only has thirteen episodes, but it will start on January tenth. Sigh. OTOH, maybe someone at work on this current thing will see that what failed once might well fail again.

[missmycat]

Maybe they feel pulling at fans' heartstrings will ramp up their affection for the character, but honestly, you have to let people like or dislike your characters on their own merit.

When I feel like I'm being emotionally manipulated into liking someone, or being chastised if I don't like someone, it makes me like them even less.

I feel exactly the same way. And to me the worst by far and the most offensive to me was that ridiculous miscarriage story line they gave JJ. Was I really suppose to buy that her and Will were trying to have another baby. And how about the total implausibility of a pregnant woman even being in a combat zone in the first place. 

 

Now I am not saying had they written it more realistically It would've made me start feeling sympathetic towards the character and start liking her again, but at least  I wouldn't have been as angry about it as I was.

[ForeverAlone]

Oh yeah, all that national security crap from "200" was so ridiculous for a show about serial killers (plus they got a fair amount of it wrong). I can't accept anything in that episode as canon, because of that. 

[zannej]

The Monty character is reminding me a bit of Logan (played by Michael Weatherly) on Dark Angel. He was a cop who was paralyzed but he was an expert hacker. It also reminds me a little bit of Oracle (formerly Batgirl) in DC comics. The Joker shot her in the spine in "The Killing Joke" and paralyzed her. So she continued to be a hero by learning about computers and technology. She was sort of like Big Brother with her ability to see what was going on all over. I had a friend with MD who was wheelchair bound and he really liked reading about Oracle in the comic books. It meant a lot to him that not all heroes had to be in peak physical shape. The writers and artists for the comic said some kind words about him when he passed away. They had not actually known that he was in a wheelchair when they had chatted with him online. I know that has absolutely nothing to do with the spinoff though. LOL.

 

Anyway, I do think they are trying too hard to be PC. It could be interesting, but it could also be a total flop. I do agree that it is a bit annoying to see them wanting to make a genius character when they can't write for the one they have on this show-- but then, it will hopefully have different writers.

[SSAHotchner]

Sigh. Watching ION right now (Nameless, Faceless is currently airing), and they're going to run the original spinoff, if that's not an oxymoron. I don't know if this is going to be a permanent thing, as Suspect Behavior only has thirteen episodes, but it will start on January tenth. Sigh. OTOH, maybe someone at work on this current thing will see that what failed once might well fail again.

I saw that and I'm flabbergasted. Why on earth would they add this catastrophe to their lineup?

[Danielg342]

I saw that and I'm flabbergasted. Why on earth would they add this catastrophe to their lineup?

I seem to recall when the original spinoff was getting off the ground, the CM cast was pretty vocal about their disdain for it, with Shemar Moore himself saying "this s*** ain't easy." Of course, I think "Suspect Behavior" arose at a time when CBS was drunk on creating spinoffs, since it started to be talked about at the time that startup of the Miami and New York versions of CSI was still a recent memory and NCIS: Los Angeles was also just starting, so perhaps CBS was of the mindset that every hit it had needed to be spun off so they didn't think the original spinoff through. So, hopefully, maybe this time, with many of those other spinoffs off the air (and only two other new ones starting this year), CBS' motivations are entirely creative (or at least they've thought it out better) and they're in a better position to try again; plus with so few spinoffs on the air, the public might be more receptive to it.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Danielg342

[normasm]

Daniel, ADR, but I hope the spinoff tanks just like the one with the Oscar-winning actor at the helm. If it takes anything away from the original, I hope it's Erica Messer and all the weak writers. Otherwise, I'll be wishing that TG and MGG are well-positioned to jump off this merry-go-round.

[SSAHotchner]

Daniel, ADR, but I hope the spinoff tanks just like the one with the Oscar-winning actor at the helm. If it takes anything away from the original, I hope it's Erica Messer and all the weak writers. Otherwise, I'll be wishing that TG and MGG are well-positioned to jump off this merry-go-round.

I so agree!

 

I don't think it was just backlash that caused the original spinoff to tank. The cast had zero chemistry. The thing that has sustained CM for so long is that you love the team and care about what happens to them even when the writing sucks. These are people you'd want to hang out with. You couldn't say that about the spinoff and the premise was weak. Those cases were even less likely to need more than local law enforcement and the idea that this was a rogue team within the FBI was just plain silly.

[normasm]

I agree SSAHotch. The characters were overblown, they had that ridiculous studio space, Whittaker rumbling around to heavy rock music on his motorcycle, all the characters were so cliche. I didn't watch the show enough to see the cases were implausible, but I trust you. Weak sauce.

[Danielg342]

I so agree!

I don't think it was just backlash that caused the original spinoff to tank. The cast had zero chemistry. The thing that has sustained CM for so long is that you love the team and care about what happens to them even when the writing sucks. These are people you'd want to hang out with. You couldn't say that about the spinoff and the premise was weak. Those cases were even less likely to need more than local law enforcement and the idea that this was a rogue team within the FBI was just plain silly.

I agree, those factors were very much in play...I just wonder if the failings of the original spin-off could have been avoided if they had properly thought it through, not rushed things to get on CBS' "spin-off craze". Which is why I hope this time around it'll be better because it's not being made under those circumstances.

[Old Dog]

Just read this:-

 

http://tvline.com/2015/01/12/cbs-season-16-cancelled-or-renewed-cbs/

 

Not sure whether to laugh hysterically or cry!