TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[prican58]

Yeah, Badger. A good debut, i'd say.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

BTW have any French films with Alain Delon and JeanPaul Belmondo been aired recently?.

Last weekend they showed Purple Noon with Alain Delon - the first movie version of The Talented Mr. Ripley, with Delon in the Ripley role.  I had never seen it before and wow, was he ever fantastic - so beautiful and so chilling.

[aradia22]

I decided to watch First a Girl (1935) today. Terrible title. I thought it would just be this cute novelty but it was actually significantly different from Victor/Victoria and I enjoyed it a lot. It is a bit slow but I think it makes some smart choices. You can definitely appreciate different things about both First A Girl and Victor/Victoria. The adaptation made some smart changes and some changes that altered things maybe a little negatively. I liked the relationship between Victor and Elizabeth more in this version. She started out more unlikable here because she was just ambitious and kind of careless while in Victor/Victoria, she's put upon and struggling. I have mixed feelings on the relationship between the main female protagonist and the love interest. I think he comes across as a bit of asshole in both but I'm going to give it to First a Girl. I think James Garner is more attractive, but the character is better developed in this version. You get to see why he's attracted to her both as a man and a woman and there's more of a sense of camaraderie. I also liked the almost drowning thing because he had a good "Oh, I was an asshole" moment. While the pace is a bit slow overall, I think First a Girl also wins as an overall movie because Victor/Victoria starts and ends strong but has that big boring section in the middle.

[aradia22]

So I was listening to Lana Del Ray's new album, Ultraviolence (which is pretty good) and "The Other Woman" came up and I was like, I totally know this song. Why am I bringing this up on the TCM board? Well, Spotify is terrible and I had to do some creative googling to figure out that the version I know is from Sarah Vaughan. I'm convinced that I'm familiar with the song because it's used in the credits of a movie (and also because I have Sarah Vaughan's Greatest Hits on my iPod). Anyway, do any of you remember which movie uses this in the credits, or am I completely off base? It could also be the Kitty White version (which again, took me forever to find. Grrr, Spotify.) I think it might be a TCM movie because of the age of the song but it could also be a newer movie as Nora Ephron for instance loved throwbacks.

[aradia22]

I watched Ocean's Eleven (1960) for the first time today.

Positives...

-Dean Martin has real star power. Just an effortless magnetism and charisma.

-Sammy Davis, Jr.'s voice sounded gorgeous.

-The movie is pretty to look at if you like that style.

-There are some nice quips thrown in there.

-Peter Lawford had his moments.

 

Negatives... 

-Sinatra was a dud in this movie. I liked his little accents as I have a thing for accents (good and bad) but his acting, especially in his "serious" scenes was very flat.

-The bar fight in the beginning was rather pathetic.

-Oy, female and minority characters in this movie. 

-They had a pretty weak plan.

-I didn't like the team but I didn't have any reason to sympathize with the woman Danny had an affair with or Duke Santos either so... no tension. The heist was completed pretty simply.

-Cute ending but overall the movie lacked energy.

[prican58]

Hunchback of Notre Dame, I saw it back in the 8th grade in class. I could not and still can't believe just how absolutely gorgeous Maureen O'Hara was. Jaw droppingly so. 

And really, if all you know about Edmond O'Brien is D.O.A. you would never believe that he was such a beautiful young man.He could have been a big matinee idol if he stayed that way but becoming a character actor certainly prolonged his career. Good actor.

[aradia22]

Shoot! Missed Guys and Dolls again. It's playing again in August. I'm going on vacation at the end of July so hopefully the DVR will allow me to set it that far in advance.

[Rinaldo]

With the 1960s, the time was just gradually starting that songs were to be "owned" by their original performers (who, more and more, were usually their writers). Before then, once a song existed it was available to be performed by anyone, and the notion of a "cover" as something separate and second-best would have seemed incomprehensible -- everyone did the same songs and enjoyed doing them in varied ways. And this idea still hadn't died out: The Beatles recorded "Till There Was You," the Supremes and The Mamas & Papas both recorded Rodgers & Hart, lots of groups helped themselves to songs from Hair, and so on. But it was going to happen less and less.

[aradia22]

I finished watching Dance, Girl, Dance (1940) today. I'd started it yesterday. I thought Maureen O'Hara's performance was alright but not spectacular. Even in the moment when she should have had the most fire, she wasn't as expressive as she could have been. Also, she was playing a particularly annoying brand of ingenue. At the end, you don't want anything good to happen for her because she keeps messing things up for herself.

 

I found nothing compelling from the beginning in the romance between Jimmy and Judy and once the wife/ex-wife was introduced any interest I had in seeing them getting together completely died.

And then I ended up being right, which I didn't need to wait the whole movie to learn.

 

There is some OK dancing in this movie and some rather poor dancing in this movie. I think it's only worth the watch for Lucille Ball and the Edward Stevenson costumes (first time I've noticed his name in the credits). The movie could have been improved so much if Judy had just gone off with Steven Adams when he tried to offer her his umbrella. I'm really not sure what the point of including the Jimmy character was except to give Bubbles and Judy a guy to fight over.

[aradia22]

I also watched The Italian Job (1969) today. The pacing was a bit slow. I'd watch the beginning and the actual heist and fast forward through most of the middle. I was expecting something a bit more slick and stylish after the beginning but it ended up being a rather stupid plan and a rough and tumble heist. Which was fun but definitely stretched believeability. Oy, the ending. I find The Lady or The Tiger-ing annoying in general but you definitely don't get to pull that after a story with little plot and no character development that ships our only already poorly written female character off on a plane before any of the fun really begins. 

Edited July 8, 2014 by aradia22

[Athena]

The Italian Job is not that slick compared to modern capers, but once you get to the actual car scenes, it's really fun. I like it a lot, but then I like 1960s Michael Caine. Ever since I saw the 69 Italian Job, I've wanted a Mini Cooper. Some of the humor and plot is stupid, but it's a nice fun ride. The movie was suppose to have a sequel which is why they had the ending, but it did poorly in the USA due to some horrible marketing. So they didn't have a budget to greenlight a second film.

[voiceover]

Last night was some back-to-back fabulousness; sort of a "voiceover's Movie Crush (part 1) Night"...First, Kerwin Mathews in 7th Voyage of Sinbad.  First time I saw this was in a 7th grade history class (ahem, NOT as a history lesson; my teacher loved the film), and my tweenage heart swooned.  It's still something, with those Harryhausen effects and that nasty villain of a sorcerer.  And those moments of romance between Sinbad and Princess Parissa...so sweet you can't even roll your eyes!  Mathews could really sell that dialogue.

 

Then a little early Ronald Colman in Kiki.  Hilarious that he looks about the same in Random Harvest.  Talk about ageless!  And even though it's silent, I hear his voice with every line.

[Charlie Baker]

I pretty much agree Lucille Ball is the best reason to give Dance, Girl, Dance a look.  The script is not that great.  The movie got something of a feminist cult reputation for one reason because of how Judy asserts herself, but also because it was directed by Dorothy Arzner, the only woman director working throughout the heyday of the studio era.  Ms. Ball's movie career was made of roles like Bubbles that promised some kind of breakthrough, and then not much happening afterward.  A couple different biographies I've read said she never considered herself a star, just a working actress, after so many years in movies, and even once she did become a superstar through television, she didn't really see herself differently.

[aradia22]

I watched about 20 minutes of Maytime today. I found myself a little distracted at the beginning by the old age makeup on Jeanette MacDonald. They left too much of her face smooth but the wrinkles actually don't look too bad. Maybe it's the years of face off but I'm interested in what tricks and techniques they used. Anyway, young Jeanette just popped when she first appeared onscreen. She had a spark. I just realized I wasn't in the mood for a movie like this. I liked the two songs I heard before I turned the movie off. I don't think her technique (singing and diction) was perfect (this is coming from someone who is far from an expert) but it was pleasant to listen to and she was quite animated. And for a movie opera singer, I think she was quite good. I think I might have to rewatch this movie to try and take in all the gowns. We started off well with the simple dresses but those Adrian gowns for the "past"? Whew. Knocked me over. What delightfully delicious confections. I'm interested in fashion design but there's a part of me that thinks costume design would just be so much more fun.

[Rinaldo]

This is probably well known to anyone who follows a topic like this, but Jeanette MacDonald had a real spark onscreen that got subdued or extinguished in her most famous work, her pairing with Nelson Eddy. Her early work, often with Maurice Chevalier, is just delightful; there are some famous titles I haven't yet seen (like Monte Carlo), but Love Me Tonight comes up fairly often and is for me one of the great movie musicals. It's in my personal top 20 of alltime favorite movies, in fact. She, Chevalier, director Rouben Mamouian, and top-quality Rodgers & Hart really add up to something unique.

 

As her movie career slowed down in the 1940s, MacDonald worked at preparing for a longtime dream, appearing onstage in opera. She did Faust and Roméo et Juliette in Chicago and briefly in a few other cities, extremely successfully (the doubting music critics were quite won over). But she didn't continue beyond those two titles and that short period of time. There have have been many theories as to why, given her enthusiastic reception; but I suspect that she found the long preparation periods (not always with the most exalted colleagues) for just a few performances unrewarding, compared to what she was used to in movies.

[Charlie Baker]

I don't always find Ms. MacDonald's singing to my taste, but I do love her in Love Me Tonight, a movie that's a joy from start to finish.

[Julia]

I think Isn't It Romantic should get at least some of the credit the opening of Touch of Evil gets as a masterful seamless segue, even if it wasn't a single tracking shot.

[Rinaldo]

"Isn't It Romantic?" is extraordinary, in conception, composition, and execution. In some ways, movie musicals still haven't caught up to it.

[Rinaldo]

I wish I could stand 1776. (I can't say this in the Facebook group I belong to, as the composer's son posts there.)

[voiceover]

It always amazes me how well Ken Howard, William Daniels and Howard Da Silva can sing.

 

Their harmonizing gives me the chills, every time.

[Luckylyn]

TCM's giving The Life and Times of Harvey Milk tomorrow night.  

[Julia]

My husband and daughter guilted me into watching 1776 on July 4. Whatever else the issues are with it, William Daniels is a revelation (JMO).

[Rinaldo]

Oh, everyone else seems to love it except me. I just don't think the music and lyrics are of a professional standard, and they embarrass me. Peter Stone's screenplay is excellent though.

[aradia22]

 

Oh, everyone else seems to love it except me. I just don't think the music and lyrics are of a professional standard, and they embarrass me. Peter Stone's screenplay is excellent though.

It's on the DVR. I'm glad to hear you don't have the best opinion of it, Rinaldo as it takes the pressure off me to like it. 

[Milburn Stone]

I just happened into Holy Matrimony last night (about ten minutes in), with Monty Wooley and Gracie Fields. My principal reason for staying with it, although I knew nothing about it, was that I could tell pretty quickly that it was source material for the late sixties Broadway musical Darling of the Day by Jule Styne and Yip Harburg, a show about which I've always been curious. (The score contains some real gems.) Anyway, it's quite a good film--witty, intelligent, engaging, with a particularly captivating performance by Fields. Few films of the period--even the good ones--hold up with the freshness this one does. Stayed up too late because I had to finish watching it!

 

P.S. Rinaldo, we're in the same camp (as we often are) regarding the score of 1776. I especially find that song with all the lines ending in "lee" to be a groaner.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[Julia]

Did they ever explain what FFV is? Because they mention it a lot in that song for something I'm guessing most of the viewers have never heard of.

[Milburn Stone]

(Deleted--hit wrong button when trying to edit my previous post; is there a way I'm not seeing to completely delete a mistaken post?)

Edited July 10, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[Charlie Baker]

I've read various opinions that if you removed the songs from 1776, it would work just fine as a play.  Not sure I buy it, and I don't have the degree of problem with the score as Mr. Stone and Mr. Rinaldo.  But Stone's work is very strong.

[Rinaldo]

I've read various opinions that if you removed the songs from 1776, it would work just fine as a play.  Not sure I buy it...

Oh, it's probably not literally true -- there are spaces left for action accomplished in song, for which new dialogue would need to be written. But the characters' IQ seems to drop every time they sing, with all the repetition, extension of words for the convenience of meter, misaccentuation, and harmonic stasis. OK, I'll shut up on the subject now. I know it'll survive without my approval....

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Then a little early Ronald Colman in Kiki.  Hilarious that he looks about the same in Random Harvest.  Talk about ageless!  And even though it's silent, I hear his voice with every line.

Yes, he was great - and yes it's startling that he basically looks the same as he did fifteen years later.  He's the best thing about the movie - I didn't expect to dislike it as much as I did.  I really hated the title character - and generally I like Norma Talmadge.  Kiki couldn't sing or dance, but by being pushy, deceptive, and manipulative she gets into the show and gets her man - because she has some kind of 'certain something."  The kind of plot designed to feed the ambitions of every  tone-deaf stumble-footed audience member who is sure that talent is less important to stardom than just "wanting it enough."  Yuck. 

 

I pretty much agree Lucille Ball is the best reason to give Dance, Girl, Dance a look.  The script is not that great.  The movie got something of a feminist cult reputation for one reason because of how Judy asserts herself, but also because it was directed by Dorothy Arzner, the only woman director working throughout the heyday of the studio era.

Hey, not just a woman, but a lesbian too.  And there was Ida Lupino, but not till somewhat later.  I've always been a part of the cult for this movie, partially because of the lesbian thing and partially because I just love watching Lucy play such a hard-boiled dame.  Oh, and because I love Maureen O'Hara in most anything.

[Charlie Baker]

I haven't seen a lot of Dorothy Arzner's work, but I would bet that if she had been assigned better projects, she might have approached a Michael Curtiz-like career--it looks like she had a versatility and a feel for different genres. Of course you could speculate that given the times, as a lesbian, perhaps she couldn't have achieved more than she did. Which was pretty remarkable.

 

Ida Lupino, IIRC, pretty much had to work outside the studio system to get her directorial projects made.  And then she had a lengthy career as a TV director. So she too has got to be considered a pioneer.

[aradia22]

Thinking back on Dance, Girl, Dance there's nothing about it that made me go "yup, a woman directed this." And as directing goes, I didn't notice anything too distinctive in terms of camera angles or other choices. It's possible she was good at working with actors but obviously you can't know where her influence was felt. The one scene I thought felt kind of awkward was the "real people" ballet but I'm not sure if that's due to the way it was shot or just weird choreography. I'd have to rewatch it. 

[voiceover]

Dear TCM,

Please stop showing Four Horsemen in the middle of the night.  That makes it 3 times in a year.  Why can't you save it for Silent Sundays?

[Rick Kitchen]

Did they ever explain what FFV is? Because they mention it a lot in that song for something I'm guessing most of the viewers have never heard of.

 

As said, it stands for First Families of Virginia (that's a thing, btw, in real life).  And it is explained in the song - "I'm FFV -- First Family in the sovereign colony of Virginia".

[graybrown bird]

Just watched Kiki - the silent picture starring Norma Talmadge (listed alone above the title) and Ronald Colman (listed in smaller print below the title).  It was the first time I had ever seen Talmadge in anything, and I was not impressed.  Nothing subtle about her acting.

Colman, on the other hand, was a marvel of eloquence in an under-written part.  And the poster who said he looked the same in movies 20 years later was right!  The only way I could tell he was younger in this picture was that his hair was thicker and glossier.  He is wonderful.  I never miss the chance to watch Random Harvest, always see something new in his performance.

 

Was there Vaseline on the camera lens for Norma Talmadge's closeups?  Somehow the picture got fuzzy whenever the camera pulled in on her face -

[aradia22]

I finished up Maytime (1937) today. It really is somewhat of a spectacle movie and I think it lost something by not being filmed in color. Specifically, I'm thinking of the May day celebrations and that big dinner sequence. I think the gowns looked alright in black and white and it's debatable whether they would have looked better in color. I would totally attend an exhibit showcasing all of the gowns in the movie. Ellen was cute. Totally upstaging in the background. I found Jeanette Macdonald really likable. She reminded me a lot of the Disney version of Snow White. I wonder if they modeled the character off of her movie persona at all or if that was just the style for ingenues at the time. The Nelson Eddy character was a little bit of jerk what with the coercion and the stealing but he was still charming in spite of that and I liked (not loved) his singing. I wish I'd fast-forwarded through the song about Virginia. I know I love musicals but there was too much music in this movie. Well, too much not-plot-related music.

 

John Barrymore underwhelmed yet again. I liked him alright in Grand Hotel before they paired him up with Garbo's character. I found him underwhelming in Twentieth Century. I forgot that he was in Marie Antoinette and had to go to imdb to look up what other movie I've seen him in. I feel like I might not be a John Barrymore fan.

 

Edited to add that there were lots of moments that made me think of "The Song That Goes Like This" from Spamalot... specifically the lines "I'll sing it in your face while we both embrace." Also, I'm OK with French comprehension and other than hearts dying and I love you's I could not tell what they were singing during the opera they performed. Oh, opera.

Edited July 13, 2014 by aradia22

[3pwood]

aradia22, have you seen Barrymore in "Dinner At Eight"?  I thought he was perfect in a role that had much in common with his own life.

 

And did you know that he was Mary Astor's first romance, when she was 17 & he was nearly 50?  She wrote about it in one of her autobiographies (there are two of them, both fascinating).

 

[aradia22]

3pwood, I haven't seen him in Dinner At Eight but I'll keep it in mind. The DVR's getting pretty full again.

[Julia]

He was a lot of fun in The Great Man Votes, and I thought he was kind of amazing in Norma Shearer's Romeo and Juliet's Much Older Cousins, even so.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Julia

[Rinaldo]

I agree, @Julia, although maybe one has to have an appetite for glimpses of acting in now-vanished styles. That MGM Romeo and Juliet is opulent in the standard glossy respectful way of that period, but a real snooze for the most part (partly because in the decades since, we've all learned to find more energy and zest and youth in the play in a way that is not just different, but I think genuinely better and more in tune with it). Miss Shearer and Mr. Howard are so slow and sad (even when they're first falling in love) and redolent of great art for our betterment. And then here comes John Barrymore, equally overaged for Mercutio perhaps, but it doesn't matter because he's dazzling, making every line new and fun, and showing us what the old rhetorical "make music with the words" style was about, and how valid for this verse it was. The only other actor with some kind of film legacy who did it like this was John Gielgud, and great as he was, he wasn't robust like this, reaching out to grab us.

 

Barrymore is lots of fun in Twentieth Century too. 

[Charlie Baker]

I went in not expecting to like the Shearer/Howard R & J (ugh, sorry, I hate that, but for brevity's sake :-) ) and wound up more into it than I thought I would be.  Old fashioned, yes, glossy, yes. And Barrymore was indeed really compelling.

 

Also much appreciated him in Grand Hotel, Twentieth Century, Dinner at Eight.

[aradia22]

Oh, guys, I'm so silly. I realized the other "John Barrymore movie" I was trying to think of was Deception not Marie Antoinette. I was confused and thought he was in the movie because Claude Rain's role is so similar to his roles in Maytime and Twentieth Century. 

[jah1986]

So I never really agreed with the No Spoiler policy on this thread until I saw Dial M for Murder this weekend on TCM. I just couldn't even see the point of watching the movie after Ben Mankowicz intro but so glad I stuck around and glad for no spoilers. Who would have thought?

[Milburn Stone]

So I never really agreed with the No Spoiler policy on this thread until I saw Dial M for Murder this weekend on TCM. I just couldn't even see the point of watching the movie after Ben Mankowicz intro but so glad I stuck around and glad for no spoilers. Who would have thought?

 

Yeah, even though I also was in the "spoiler alerts in this thread are effin' ridiculous" camp, there are young people (you may even be one of them) who are coming to these movies for the first time, who deserve to get the same thrill out of them that we oldsters got once upon a time.

[3pwood]

 

... just couldn't even see the point of watching the movie after Ben Mankowicz intro ...

 

 

I've never seen his intro -- surely he didn't give anything away?

[aradia22]

Intros, summaries (on the TV), and the information in the TCM schedule online can sometimes give a lot away. I think it's sometimes difficult to know where that line is. On the one hand, you want to give people information as well as entice them to watch. But on the other hand, if you're telling me everything that's going to happen it can sometimes hamper my enjoyment of watching it unfold. Spoilers don't particularly bother me but sometimes I'm watching a TCM intro from Ben or Robert and think, wow, you just gave the whole movie away. That was a terrible intro. It would be unnecessary for the people who had already seen the movie and it would ruin things for new viewers.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

and then here comes John Barrymore, equally overaged for Mercutio perhaps, but it doesn't matter because he's dazzling, making every line new and fun, and showing us what the old rhetorical "make music with the words" style was about, and how valid for this verse it was

Could not agree more.  I love him in this, and even when he became quite a bit of a drunken mess a little later he always exuded that kind of joy of performance.

I (finally) watched Secrets of the French Police (1932) from a few weeks ago.  First, it is always fun to see Frank Morgan playing anything other than the Wizard - in this film, he's the tough canny head of the French Surete.  So much plot in this one.  First of all this is apparently based on an extremely popular newspaper series about French police techniques, so we see a fair amount of that.   My favorite Secret was the method used for creating composite sketches - they had massive wooden pieces out of which they made a roughly ten foot tall inlay puzzle on the wall - "left upper eyelid!  Aryan type! Bridge of nose! Celtic type! Lower lip! Slavonic type!" in keeping with the nutso physical anthropological theories of the day.  Then all the operative came in to peer at it.  Some took a photo or two.

We have a professional thief that Frank Morgan hires to catch a burglary ring, a con man/ Svengali/Rasputin  played by Gregory Ratoff who kidnaps the thief's girlfriend (and her little dog too) and hypnotizes (with those spinning spirals on the wall they always use in movies from this time period) her so he can pass her off as the Grand Duchess Anastasia (!), but he's also kidnapping women and turning them into statues that he has on display in his castle,  plus he has this cool technique for making  cars crash off the bridge near his castle - a giant movie screen on which he projects a movie of a car rushing towards the bridge!  Of course he has a projector and a Victrola concealed behind this screen.  The castle by the way is the same fantastic set used in The Most Dangerous Game the same year.  Oh, and he's EURASIAN (father a Russian prince, mother a Manchu princess) so he has this whole gang of Russian and Chinese henchman to carry out his evil tasks.  One of the  other interesting bits of film history here is the leading lady, Gwili Andre, who I had never seen in anything before this and knew only as a kind of Anna Sten-type punchline as yet another Scandinavian who failed to become the next Garbo.  As so often with these things, she was not half bad and by the way an incredible knockout - apparently she got her start as a model and it's easy to see why.  She is spectacularly well-suited to Art Deco fashion (and she has a number of costume changes), much like Kay Francis or Lillyan Tashman - long-waisted, long-legged, long-necked, and a killer face.  I guess she just never found her Von Sternberg in Hollywood.

Oh, and all this plot takes place in a little under an HOUR.  Eat shit, Michael Bay - this is how you keep the action going in a popcorn movie.

Edited July 15, 2014 by ratgirlagogo

[jah1986]

 

I've never seen his intro -- surely he didn't give anything away?

 

No, he really didn't but the intro made it seem as if the entire plot had been given away, it almost put me off watching the movie but my dad convinced me to watch anyway and I'm glad I did.

[mariah23]

Anyone watching the premieres of the Fox Maureen O'Hara films?  I watched The Forbidden Street and Do You Love Me? for the first time last week.  Wow.  Pure crap!  Sadly, Street had some potential, but someone (writing, editing, studio, etc.) screwed it up.  

[Charlie Baker]

Today is the birthday of both Ginger Rogers and Barbara Stanwyck, so our favorite network trotted out some of their more obscure titles, I guess.  Ginger plays The First Traveling Saleslady in a kind of early 20th Century Western comedy that doesn't quite work, but it's interesting, anyway.  She seems at times to have affected a different sounding speaking voice for the character, which didn't seem necessary.  Her cohort is Carol Channing, who gets a musical number about corsets, and is paired romantically with young, skinny, pretty Clint Eastwood. (Yep, strange coupling, as Leonard Maltin says.) Ginger has Barry Nelson as an aspiring auto maker and James Arness (around the time of Gunsmoke beginning, I think) vying for her affections.

 

Two minor melodramas have Ms. Stanwyck giving her all.  In Jeopardy she's trying to get an escaped con to help rescue her trapped husband and in Witness to Murder no one will believe she is in fact the title. Her antagonists are strong--Ralph Meeker and George Sanders, even if the scripts are nothing special. These were fun to catch.