TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[CMH1981]

Wow, the movie the Opposite Sex is a chore to get through compared to the far, far superior the Women.  The movie just seemed so slow and bogged down by the musical numbers, it dragged on for so long.  Loved seeing Agnes Moorehead, such a great character actress, but the one I was most struck w/ was Ann Sheridan.  I had seen her in a few films here and there, but I really want to see more of her work.  I did think that June Allyson was not the right fit for Kay ( I originally typed Mary, that's how familiar I am w/the original), when she did the "sharpen my claws/jungle red" scene, it was just hammy.  I just don't see June as the claws out woman from the end of movie, it's not what I think of when I heard the name June Allyson.  That fuschia/hot pink dress at the end she is wearing did her no favors either, it just washed her out.

 

I guess I can now say I say the first re-make of the Women, but i'm not sure I want to touch the 2008 remake.  I did see the PBS filmed stage version from 2001 w/ Cynthia Nixon, that one was really god.

 

eta...

 

Wow Julia, that does sound just awful...and this is all from the writer who gave us the awesome 80's sitcom Murphy Brown?!

Edited July 24, 2015 by CMH1981

[Julia]

Wow, the movie the Opposite Sex is a chore to get through compared to the far, far superior the Women.  The movie just seemed so slow and bogged down by the musical numbers, it dragged on for so long.  Loved seeing Agnes Moorehead, such a great character actress, but the one I was most struck w/ was Ann Sheridan.  I had seen her in a few films here and there, but I really want to see more of her work.  I did think that June Allyson was not the right fit for Kay ( I originally typed Mary, that's how familiar I am w/the original), when she did the "sharpen my claws/jungle red" scene, it was just hammy.

 

I guess I can now say I say the first re-make of the Women, but i'm not sure I want to touch the 2008 remake.  I did see the PBS filmed stage version from 2001 w/ Cynthia Nixon, that one was really god.

 

The Cynthia Nixon version was great. If you value your sanity, do not see the more recent remake. One example: you remember the scene where (Mary) was saying to her mother that she didn't understand why her husband would stray, because they came together willingly as independent spirits who loved each other? In the remake, Meg Ryan was squawking and flailing her arms and announced that she couldn't understand how he could stray because she could "suck the nails out of a board".

 

Also, I found it hard to register Mary/whatever her name was as the natural woman he left for the woman who was willing to pander to his pathetic delusions of youth (and this is probably a flaw in me) because Meg Ryan has so obviously had huge amounts of work done.

[elle]

If you value your sanity, do not see the more recent remake. One example: you remember the scene where (Mary) was saying to her mother that she didn't understand why her husband would stray, because they came together willingly as independent spirits who loved each other? In the remake, Meg Ryan was squawking and flailing her arms and announced that she couldn't understand how he could stray because she could "suck the nails out of a board".

 

Also, I found it hard to register Mary/whatever her name was as the natural woman he left for the woman who was willing to pander to his pathetic delusions of youth (and this is probably a flaw in me) because Meg Ryan has so obviously had huge amounts of work done.

I can only second this ad infinitum.  They had a great chance to update the idea, flip the trope, something other than the screechy mess it was.

 

Wow, the movie the Opposite Sex is a chore to get through compared to the far, far superior the Women.  The movie just seemed so slow and bogged down by the musical numbers, it dragged on for so long.  Loved seeing Agnes Moorehead, such a great character actress, but the one I was most struck w/ was Ann Sheridan.  I had seen her in a few films here and there, but I really want to see more of her work.  I did think that June Allyson was not the right fit for Kay ( I originally typed Mary, that's how familiar I am w/the original), when she did the "sharpen my claws/jungle red" scene, it was just hammy.  I just don't see June as the claws out woman from the end of movie, it's not what I think of when I heard the name June Allyson.  That fuschia/hot pink dress at the end she is wearing did her no favors either, it just washed her out.

I have a fondness for "The Opposite Sex" despite its flaws (would someone please get June Allyson a new hairstyle!), all those familiar faces - Carolyn Jones, Jim Backus, Dean Jones, and the wonderful Sam Levene(!).  I also enjoy the twist with Crystal and Buck at the end.

[Crisopera]

I know it's not highly regarded by fans of Fred Astaire's RKO movies (no Ginger, after all), but I love A Damsel in Distress.  The script is charming (P. G. Wodehouse!), the score is great (full of Gershwin standards), the cast is wonderful (especially Burns & Allen and Reginald Gardiner as the opera-singing butler).  It is too bad that they couldn't come to terms with Jessie Matthews, the great British dancing star of the 1930s, to play the lead, since Joan Fontaine certainly couldn't dance at all, but I think that's made up for by the two great numbers Astaire does with Burns and Allen (who knew they could dance like that!).  And it's fun to see Fred and Gracie do the "oompah trot", which Fred had famously done with his sister Adele on stage.  It's a favorite of mine.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I know it's not highly regarded by fans of Fred Astaire's RKO movies (no Ginger, after all), but I love A Damsel in Distress.  The script is charming (P. G. Wodehouse!), the score is great (full of Gershwin standards), the cast is wonderful (especially Burns & Allen and Reginald Gardiner as the opera-singing butler).  It is too bad that they couldn't come to terms with Jessie Matthews, the great British dancing star of the 1930s, to play the lead, since Joan Fontaine certainly couldn't dance at all, but I think that's made up for by the two great numbers Astaire does with Burns and Allen (who knew they could dance like that!).  And it's fun to see Fred and Gracie do the "oompah trot", which Fred had famously done with his sister Adele on stage.  It's a favorite of mine.

 

It doesn't help that Fontaine's character is not only poorly, poorly written, but Fontaine herself is skim milk bland. In any other movie, she'd be the inconsequential fiancee who gets dumped for Ginger Rogers or Cyd Charisse. I kid you not, I was kind of hoping that Astaire and Gracie Allen would get together in the end. True, it would spit in the face of logic, but at least she was fun!

I agree the score is wonderful (I adore Gershwin with all my heart), Astaire never once lets Fontaine drag him down, and Burns and Allen light up the screen (dammit, they were too cute together!).

Edited July 24, 2015 by Wiendish Fitch

[ratgirlagogo]

Sorry, I'm the curmudgeon who doesn't like Damsel in Distress.  Wodehouse! Astaire! Burns and Allen! Gershwin!  It ought to be a delight from start to finish - but to me it is not.  It just never comes together for me and it's such a huge disappointment since I love all the people involved in it.  

 

But I'm glad others feel differently.

[Rinaldo]

It ought to be a delight from start to finish - but to me it is not.  

A delight from start to finish it certainly isn't. It's too uneven for that; dopey story premise, occasionally ill-conceived staging, some drippy secondary performances, and then there's the vacuum that is Joan Fontaine. But the periodic high points are high enough to make an occasional viewing a pleasure, and I can always use the skip or FF function. I like Arlene Croce's remark: "Burns and Allen are like ministering angels in this picture, they're so needed and they're so good."

[Milburn Stone]

I like Arlene Croce's remark: "Burns and Allen are like ministering angels in this picture, they're so needed and they're so good."

 

It's been a while since I've seen Damsel, but I think it's the one that contains this Burns-Allen gem:

 

(I'm gonna botch it but it went something like this)

 

GRACIE (holding the phone for George, with a reporter on the other end of the line): He says he's Brown from The Honolulu Sun.

 

GEORGE: Well tell him to get into the shade.

 

Tell me that isn't one of the funniest exchanges in the history of man.

[ratgirlagogo]

Yep, that's in Damsel.  Oooff.  That's right down there with the stuff in Horsefeathers:

 

Secretary: The Dean is furious! He's waxing wroth!

Groucho: Is Roth out there too?  Tell Roth to wax the Dean for a while.

 

  P.G.. Wodehouse came up with that first groaner and S. J. Perelman came up with the second?  I mean, seriously.

Edited July 25, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Milburn Stone]

One person's groaner is another person's OMG-that's-the-wittiest-thing-I've-ever-heard! :)

[ratgirlagogo]

Oh, just because I think it's a groaner doesn't mean I didn't laugh.  Jeez, Horsefeathers is one of my absolute favorite movies and I love Burns and Allen.

[Crisopera]

I was watching Clash by Night with its baroque Clifford Odets dialogue (originally done on Broadway by Tallulah Bankhead, of all people - not precisely who I would cast as a working-class fisherman's wife).    It's not a great movie (although Fritz Lang's direction is interesting), but the chemistry between Barbara Stanwyck and Robert Ryan just about scorches off the screen.  Fascinating to see Marilyn Monroe before her dumb-blonde sex-kitten persona was set in stone - she's terrific.

[Rinaldo]

I'm glad to know about any good Robert Ryan role -- he didn't get as many as he deserved. He made a living with a lot of studio tough guys and Westerners, and just occasionally would get a shot at something more and show the greatness he had in him. 

 

Three personal favorites are in Caught (dir. Max Ophuls, screenplay by Arthur Laurents -- he's playing a fictionalized Howard Hughes), Claggart in Billy Budd (dir. Peter Ustinov), and what I think of as his farewell to the screen in The Iceman Cometh. He was also ideal as Walter Burns in The Front Page: he played a Broadway revival that was shown on PBS. I haven't heard of that since; I hope the videotapes still exist somewhere.

[Julia]

Yep, that's in Damsel.  Oooff.  That's right down there with the stuff in Horsefeathers:

 

Secretary: The Dean is furious! He's waxing wroth!

Groucho: Is Roth out there too?  Tell Roth to wax the Dean for a while.

 

  P.G.. Wodehouse came up with that first groaner and S. J. Perelman came up with the second?  I mean, seriously.

 

 

There's some Perelman at Project Gutenberg. It's funny, but (I suspect this is too obscure to be a UO), the entire Algonquin roundtable thought he was the funniest thing ever, and I don't think he was all that funny.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Julia

[prican58]

Damsel in Distress isn't a fave of mine either but George and Gracie are always a prize. I actually sat through some of Big Broadcast of 1935 simply because they were in it. And then I got the biggest surprise when I saw the very young Nicholas Brothers in it! Oh, but those two are such a pleasure to watch! Normally I would say "too bad they could only be a specialty act in the movies" but really if not for that, would we even know who they were? So great that we have them on film because they are pure talent. If they were on So,You Think You Can Dance?, they'd do their thing, drop the mic and exit, stage left.  

 

Someone seriously needs to make a bio pic of them. How about it, Oprah?

 

Swing Time was on tonight and both Robert and Sally called it the duo's best film. But I disagree. Regarding the music and the dance numbers I would agree. The great Kern songs are still genius! I didn't care too much for the story line.

 

For me Top Hat is the best Fred & Ginger film.  In addition to  the musical numbers it is flat out funny from start to finish. The chemistry of the character actors is without equal. Eric Blore and Edw Everett Horton just nail it every. damn. time. Helen Broderick (Broderick Crawford's mom) and Horton are fun, too. And upon viewing it recently I figured out just how funny and perfect Erik Rhodes is as Beddini.  I love that movie.

[Rinaldo]

Swing Time was on tonight and both Robert and Sally called it the duo's best film. But I disagree. Regarding the music and the dance numbers I would agree. The great Kern songs are still genius! I didn't care too much for the story line.

There's no point legislating among Fred & Ginger movies at this level, but I'll take my stand with Swing Time. (Top Hat, among other things, has its music-less stretch as we try to wind things up near the end, plus the last and least of the "we will now declare a new dance craze" extravaganzas.) The best thing about it for me is the way the songs unite with the story. The way that the repeated "there isn't going to be any dance" as the plot unfolds turns into "there isn't going to be any wedding" in the last scene -- yes, in their movies dancing equals marriage. And the culminating "Never Gonna Dance," which reprises the whole score and story as they say goodbye, plus lyric recalls like "I'm left without a penny... I'm left without my Penny" and the return of "la belle, la perfectly swell romance." And the very final moments where our stars sing the two big ballads in counterpoint (!) as the sun comes out. Perfection.

[Wiendish Fitch]

 

 

Swing Time was on tonight and both Robert and Sally called it the duo's best film. But I disagree. Regarding the music and the dance numbers I would agree. The great Kern songs are still genius! I didn't care too much for the story line.

 

For me Top Hat is the best Fred & Ginger film.  In addition to  the musical numbers it is flat out funny from start to finish. The chemistry of the character actors is without equal. Eric Blore and Edw Everett Horton just nail it every. damn. time. Helen Broderick (Broderick Crawford's mom) and Horton are fun, too. And upon viewing it recently I figured out just how funny and perfect Erik Rhodes is as Beddini.  I love that movie.

 

I'm with you there. I want to love Swing Time, I really, really do. The dances are, no hyperbole, the best Astaire and Rogers ever did. "Pick Yourself Up"? Pure delight. "Waltz in Swing Time"? Shimmering elegance. "Bojangles of Harlem"? Breathtaking (and the only forgivable blackface number in history). "Never Gonna Dance"? Gives me chills every time.

 

But that plot!! That feeble, wheezing, exhausting, dull, no-stakes excuse for a plot! George Stevens was a fine director, but had a tin ear for humor and timing. Show of hands: who thought the "pants with cuffs" running gag was woefully unfunny? Who else falls asleep during the gambling scenes? Between Astaire's inconsequential fiancee and Rogers's unthreatening paramour, who else thinks the romantic dilemma is an utter drag? Who cringed when Helen Broderick and Victor Moore ruined "Pick Yourself Up" with that awful reprise?

 

And speaking of which, I just want to declare that I hate Victor Moore. Haaaate. The creepy, leering eyes, his inability to open his mouth fully when he talks, his mumbly voice that brings to mind a pedophile (seriously, imagine him telling a kid their mom is in the hospital, but he'll give them a ride). I'm the heartless wretch who doesn't like Make Way for Tomorrow, and a lot of it is because of Moore, and do not get me started on that loathsome, manipulative, Capra-wannabe dung heap that is It Happened on 5th Avenue. Pop is easily the worst sidekick in any Astaire movie. None of Edward Everett Horton's cowardly charm, or Eric Blore's amusing snideness, or George Burns's, well, George Burns-ness. Hell, I'll take Frank Morgan's perpetual hemming and hawing over Moore's vacuum of appeal any day of the week!

 

At least Top Hat has momentum, and the unfairly overlooked Shall We Dance has some genuine emotional stakes (goofy sitcom plot notwithstanding).

Edited July 26, 2015 by Wiendish Fitch

[Milburn Stone]

Top Hat, among other things, has its music-less stretch as we try to wind things up near the end, plus the last and least of the "we will now declare a new dance craze" extravaganzas.

 

As for last, what about "The Yam"? :)

 

 

(Which, despite its silly name, is a pretty fantastic number, actually. Although any connection between it and actual yam-salesmen is tenuous at best.)

[Wiendish Fitch]

As for last, what about "The Yam"? :)

 

 

(Which, despite its silly name, is a pretty fantastic number, actually. Although any connection between it and actual yam-salesmen is tenuous at best.)

 

The conclusion to "the Yam" makes it worth watching. :)

 

I think the numbers in Carefree are among Astaire and Rogers's best (even if the plot is problematic). The medium close-up in "Change Partners"? Daaaaaaaaayyyyy-ummmmm! Most movies made today aren't that loaded with sexual tension!

[Rinaldo]

As for last, what about "The Yam"? :)

You got me, mon ami. It is, as they say, a fair cop. Scrambling out under a technicality, I'll say that I did recall "The Yam" as I was about to hit Reply, but decided that with the suburban country-club setting, it didn't qualify as an "extravaganza."

[Milburn Stone]

You got me, mon ami. It is, as they say, a fair cop. Scrambling out under a technicality, I'll say that I did recall "The Yam" as I was about to hit Reply, but decided that with the suburban country-club setting, it didn't qualify as an "extravaganza."

 

I'll buy it. :)

[Julia]

And then I got the biggest surprise when I saw the very young Nicholas Brothers in it! Oh, but those two are such a pleasure to watch! Normally I would say "too bad they could only be a specialty act in the movies" but really if not for that, would we even know who they were? So great that we have them on film because they are pure talent. If they were on So,You Think You Can Dance?, they'd do their thing, drop the mic and exit, stage left.  

 

Someone seriously needs to make a bio pic of them. How about it, Oprah?

 

Obba Babatundé played Harold in the TV movie about Dorothy Dandridge (they were briefly married). I was genuinely disappointed that they didn't use him more. 

 

Hell, I'll take Frank Morgan's perpetual hemming and hawing over Moore's vacuum of appeal any day of the week!

 

I think Moore's creepy affect was sort of a thing of his times, like Fred Astaire's bratty manipulative man-boy thing. Both of them were huge stars on Broadway before they came to Hollywood, and I think they brought their canned characters with them. Astaire eventually grew out of his (although the occasional vaguely misogynist aggrieved hoofer he played afterwards wasn't that much of an improvement), but more importantly he frequently stopped talking and danced, and Fred Astaire dancing and singing was always a grown man. They just kept bringing on Victor Moore to be Victor Moore, and I don't think his shtick aged well. 

[Crisopera]

For Me and My Gal demonstrates, kind of hilariously, one of the biggest tropes of the showbiz film.  The not-very-successful vaudeville team is played by JUDY GARLAND AND GENE KELLY.  Really.  They aren't as successful as GEORGE MURPHY and a stupid living doll routine.  You don't think that audiences would have gone mad over two of the most talented people ever to set foot in a theater?  They do become more successful later in the movie, but still.  At least in Singin' in the Rain, it's treated as a joke when Kelly and Donald O'Connor play to crickets, doing "Fit as a Fiddle."

 

PS - I saw Harold Nicholas in the national tour of "The Tap Dance Kid."  He was still great (kind of a dim show though - the parents of the title character reacted to his wish to be a tapper as though he wanted to be a drug dealer).
 

[Wiendish Fitch]

For Me and My Gal demonstrates, kind of hilariously, one of the biggest tropes of the showbiz film.  The not-very-successful vaudeville team is played by JUDY GARLAND AND GENE KELLY.  Really.  They aren't as successful as GEORGE MURPHY and a stupid living doll routine.  You don't think that audiences would have gone mad over two of the most talented people ever to set foot in a theater?  They do become more successful later in the movie, but still.  At least in Singin' in the Rain, it's treated as a joke when Kelly and Donald O'Connor play to crickets, doing "Fit as a Fiddle."

 

PS - I saw Harold Nicholas in the national tour of "The Tap Dance Kid."  He was still great (kind of a dim show though - the parents of the title character reacted to his wish to be a tapper as though he wanted to be a drug dealer).

 

 

Lord, yes. How did that tall glass of skim milk George Murphy ever get a career? A dull, mealy-mouthed actor, an okay but far from special dancer, not even that good looking, how do some people get the breaks? I mean, he was likable enough in Little Miss Broadway... but that's it (when you're acting alongside Shirley Temple, you never have to do any heavy lifting in the dramatics department). He's actually Fred Astaire's partner/quasi-rival in Broadway Melody of 1940. 

 

George Murphy. Is a rival. To Fred Astaire. In Broadway Melody of 1940.

 

I think I just snapped my suspension of disbelief.

[Julia]

Lord, yes. How did that tall glass of skim milk George Murphy ever get a career? A dull, mealy-mouthed actor, an okay but far from special dancer, not even that good looking, how do some people get the breaks? I mean, he was likable enough in Little Miss Broadway... but that's it (when you're acting alongside Shirley Temple, you never have to do any heavy lifting in the dramatics department). He's actually Fred Astaire's partner/quasi-rival in Broadway Melody of 1940. 

 

George Murphy. Is a rival. To Fred Astaire. In Broadway Melody of 1940.

 

I think I just snapped my suspension of disbelief.

 

I believe that the future Senator Murphy had other qualities Mr. Mayer liked.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Julia

[ratgirlagogo]

 

For Me and My Gal demonstrates, kind of hilariously, one of the biggest tropes of the showbiz film.  The not-very-successful vaudeville team is played by JUDY GARLAND AND GENE KELLY.  Really.

This made me laugh, but of course it's kind of the trope of EVERY film. Like anybody thinks poor Ralph Bellamy is going to get the girl once Cary Grant shows up.

[Wiendish Fitch]

This made me laugh, but of course it's kind of the trope of EVERY film. Like anybody thinks poor Ralph Bellamy is going to get the girl once Cary Grant shows up.

 

Or Fred Astaire. Or practically anyone else. :)

[elle]

And rival phoneticist Zoltan Karpathy in the My Fair Lady film.

This has been at the top of my page ever since it was posted and EVERY time I see it, I automatically think, that marvelous boy!. :0)

 

 

This made me laugh, but of course it's kind of the trope of EVERY film. Like anybody thinks poor Ralph Bellamy is going to get the girl once Cary Grant shows up.

 

 

Or Fred Astaire. Or practically anyone else. :)

Isn't there a quote somewhere from Ralph Bellamy to the effect that in playing FDR he "finally got the girl"?

 

Fred and Ginger: Favorite movie: The Gay Divorcee - the plot, the characters, the fantasy Venice; dance sequence: "Never Gonna Dance" closely followed by "Pick Yourself Up"; best Fred sidekick: the great Edward Everett Horton!

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Fred and Ginger: Favorite movie: The Gay Divorcee

Mine too. Partly it's just because it was the first one I saw, but I continue to love the music, the plot, the dancing, the cast - and of course the infinite iterations of "Chance is the fool's name for fate!"

Edited July 27, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Bastet]

The Bachelor and the Bobby Soxer will be on tomorrow evening, and even though I can watch the DVD whenever I want, if I get home in time, I will be tuning in, especially for the nightclub scene.  I laugh so hard through all the interruptions and misunderstandings, and then keep laughing through the door slamming and turned-away suitors back at the house.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Isn't there a quote somewhere from Ralph Bellamy to the effect that in playing FDR he "finally got the girl"?

 

Ah, yes, Sunrise at Campobello. You're all gonna laugh at me, but I love that movie. It's just so warm-hearted and ambitious. Ok, so it plays fast and loose with the facts: Franklin and Eleanor's marriage? Abso-tively hunky-dory! Lucy Mercer? Who's that? FDR's secretary Missy LeHand (played by Jean "Lina Lamont" Hagen)? Strictly business! 

 

Still, there's just something so wonderful about Sunrise at Campobello; maybe the depiction of fortitude, familial ties, and old-fashioned American derring-do in a bygone era just appeals to me. You can tell Ralph Bellamy loved playing FDR, and I must give it up for my girl Greer Garson as Eleanor Roosevelt. I thought Hume Cronyn was a bit too hammy, but I guess comic relief was necessary. 

 

Fred and Ginger: Favorite movie: The Gay Divorcee

 

 

"Night and Day" is one of the most hauntingly romantic duets I've ever seen. And I love the orgasmic daze on Ginger's face when Fred offers her a cigarette at the end. And how about that mind-blowing and joyous waltz they do around the hotel room at the end?!

 

Sorry, I can sing the praises of Astaire and Rogers all day.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Wiendish Fitch

[Rinaldo]

Fred and Ginger: Favorite movie: The Gay Divorcee - the plot, the characters, the fantasy Venice; 

I love the fantasy Venice too (bathing beauties in the Grand Canal!), but it's in Top Hat.

[elle]

I love the fantasy Venice too (bathing beauties in the Grand Canal!), but it's in Top Hat.

Ha!  I mix those two up all the time!  They have almost the same cast, except Betty Grable is in The Gay Divorcee, right?

[kscoaster]

And speaking of which, I just want to declare that I hate Victor Moore. Haaaate.

 

Gosh, I almost feel better now for merely disliking him. He's the character that keeps Swing Time from being #1 on my Astaire-Rogers list (the cuffed pants running "gag" doesn't help, either.)  When he tells Ginger about Fred's fiancee, I always think, "perfect - you're obnoxious and stupid."

[Rinaldo]

My best friend, whom I made friends with 30 years ago because of our shared love of Fred/Ginger movies (really we did!), hated Victor Moore too. Though in the last year or so she's coming around a bit. He's never bothered me, but I admit that it's because I'm so happy to be seeing Broadway history when I look at him. I think "that's Throttlebottom! that's Moonface!" We have so little on film of other stage stars of his era, but we do have him.

 

But I admit that I don't expect others to share my priorities.

 

My second favorite, after Swing Time, is Shall We Dance, and it's riddled with flaws -- the shortage of proper dances for the two of them (really there's only one, "They All Laughed" -- roller-skating doesn't count), the absurdity (even beyond the license granted to farce) of the story developments, the way some songs are thrown away without adequate setup (and crowning crime, after Fred sings the great "They Can't Take That Away from Me" to Ginger, instead of dancing it with her he does a faux-pas-de-deux of it with a contortionist).

 

Heavy faults to carry. But the Gershwin songs are just that great. And there are intriguing ideas in the premise (illusion, imitation, duplicates) even though they're not well developed. Again I'll second an Arlene Croce opinion: that the film, even with its present faults, would have been vastly improved if Vera Zorina (who was both charming and a genuine ballet star) had played the ballerina in both the story and the ballet -- which in that era would've meant that we would have Balanchine choreography too.

[3pwood]

British actress and Hitchcock leading lady Nova Pilbeam has died at age 95.

 

I've always loved her name.  I only saw 2 of her movies:  The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934 original version) & Young and Innocent (1937, aka The Girl Was Young, based on Josephine Tey's novel A Shilling For Candles).  She wasn't beautiful or glamorous, but very effective I thought.  

[prican58]

Obba Babatundé played Harold in the TV movie about Dorothy Dandridge .

 

Yea Julia, I saw that  as well and really I think it could have been so much better than it was. I have always thought that there were so many talented African Americans in the entertainment field that an entire documentary series a la Ken Burns' about it could and should be made. I always thought the likes of Oprah, Cosby (when we didn't know he was such a creep), Tyler Perry or someone with very deep pockets could back such a thing. Hell, even Ken Burns himself!

 

Re George Murphy, he always reminded me of Ronnie Reagan. They even appeared in a film together where Murphy plays Ronnie's father! It was a show business themed film and at one point in it Murphy was  made up as an older man and Ronnie played his son. Shit blew my mind! I will admit to actually liking Reagan in his films when he would play the likable sidekick or second lead. Great? No but King's Row proved that if given a good role he could actually do something with it. He is not a drawback to me when deciding to watch a film he's in. 

 

And, no, I am not a RR political groupie. Couldn't stand the politics but that's not  factor. 

 

There is a moment in His Girl Friday where Cary makes a  Ralph Bellamy joke re Bellamy's character. I forget the line but it's funny.

[elle]

There is a moment in His Girl Friday where Cary makes a  Ralph Bellamy joke re Bellamy's character. I forget the line but it's funny.

 

****[describing Bruce] Walter Burns: He looks like that fellow in the movies - Ralph Bellamy. ****

It is the scene where Walter sends Louie's girl (tall, blonde Marion Martin) to "delay" Walter.  She accuses him of, as he says, they call it mashing.

[Crisopera]

"At last we've got a senator who can really sing and dance" - I love Tom Lehrer.

[CMH1981]

Just got done watching the Long, Long Trailer.  I love this film so much.  The cinematography, the familiar character actors, it's just the perfect movie to me.  It captures that picturesque perfect 50's era that I envision, even though I was born in the 80's.  I know it's all Hollywood smoke and mirrors, but I just love this movie.  I remember watching it one Sunday afternoon pre-TCM when I was younger and it stuck with me.  It helps that I was a huge fan of I Love Lucy, and this seems like a lost episode that takes place after they get hitched.

 

I remember when I first got a home computer that I sought out this film on the internet to buy since the VHS wasn't available anywhere to purchase close to me.  This was in the mid/late 90's.

 

I also re-watched For Me and My Gal that I recorded the other day.  I know some will say it's stereotypical for a gay man to must love Judy Garland, but I do.  For me, it's her voice that I just fall in love with every time I hear it.  I wanted to hear more than just snippets of war-time songs in this film, like "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" and "Pack Up Your Troubles..." (even though I more associate that song w/ the Steward/Sullivan film The Shopworn Angel).

 

I always forget that his was Gene Kelly's first film appearance ever, he is just flawless.  It is like he had been in pictures for years.

 

Does anyone know where Garland ranks as one of the greatest singers of all time?  I would think she would be at least in the top 25 if not higher.

[Rinaldo]

Just got done watching the Long, Long Trailer.  I love this film so much.  The cinematography, the familiar character actors, it's just the perfect movie to me.  It captures that picturesque perfect 50's era that I envision, even though I was born in the 80's.  I know it's all Hollywood smoke and mirrors, but I just love this movie.  I remember watching it one Sunday afternoon pre-TCM when I was younger and it stuck with me.  It helps that I was a huge fan of I Love Lucy, and this seems like a lost episode that takes place after they get hitched.

 

 

Does anyone know where Garland ranks as one of the greatest singers of all time?  I would think she would be at least in the top 25 if not higher.

Just one question in relation to The Long, Long Trailer (which I don't think I've ever seen -- don't worry, after your praise for it I'll remedy that as soon as I can): what do you mean by "after they get hitched"? Is the movie a honeymoon sort of story that would have to occur right after a wedding? (Because obviously Lucy and Ricky were married throughout the storyline of the series.)

 

Your last question puzzles me -- I'm not trying to be argumentative, honest, but having taught music for as long as I have, I can't think in terms of a comprehensive list or ranking of "the greatest singers of all time." There isn't one, nor could there be, both because personal opinions differ so much (even if we could agree on criteria, nobody will agree on how to weigh one quality against another) and because there have been so many singers throughout history considered great, most of them preceding the start of recording (about 1900), with no way to compare them all.

 

But -- in a more limited frame of reference, I have a listing that I think you'll like. Henry Pleasants, a frequent writer about singing, wrote a book in 1974 called The Great American Popular Singers. He chooses one singer per chapter, for their quality but also as examples of different ideas of American popular singing. And his choices are on the dust jacket. Here it is, and you can see that Judy Garland makes the cut (as she would for me too, not that anybody needs to care about that):

Edited July 29, 2015 by Rinaldo

[elle]

I also re-watched For Me and My Gal that I recorded the other day.  I know some will say it's stereotypical for a gay man to must love Judy Garland, but I do.  For me, it's her voice that I just fall in love with every time I hear it.  I wanted to hear more than just snippets of war-time songs in this film, like "It's a Long Way to Tipperary" and "Pack Up Your Troubles..." (even though I more associate that song w/ the Steward/Sullivan film The Shopworn Angel).

 

I always forget that his was Gene Kelly's first film appearance ever, he is just flawless.  It is like he had been in pictures for years.

 

Does anyone know where Garland ranks as one of the greatest singers of all time?  I would think she would be at least in the top 25 if not higher.

Love your avatar (Donald in Mathematics Land)!

 

That was Gene Kelly's first film appearance?  I would have guessed he had been in a couple of smaller roles before this.The studio "must have had faith in him" as the saying goes.  He plays a real unlikable character in this one.

 

Just add a comment to Rinaldo's answer to your last question, most of the lists I've seen usually limit the list to a decade (greatest of 40s, 80s, etc) or a style (Jazz, R&B, and so on).  As bitterly as people will argue over movies, I can imagine the flame wars there would be if there was such a list for singers.

[Rinaldo]

That was Gene Kelly's first film appearance?  I would have guessed he had been in a couple of smaller roles before this.

On stage he had risen from chorus status to star relatively quickly; Pal Joey in 1940 made him a big name for good. So when the movie studios started pursuing him with contracts, it was going to be as a leading man (or if one offered less, he was in a position to turn it down). 

[CMH1981]

 

Just one question in relation to The Long, Long Trailer (which I don't think I've ever seen -- don't worry, after your praise for it I'll remedy that as soon as I can): what do you mean by "after they get hitched"? Is the movie a honeymoon sort of story that would have to occur right after a wedding? (Because obviously Lucy and Ricky were married throughout the storyline of the series.)

 

I don't think this is spoiling anything, but the movie starts basically on the eve of the wedding of the Lucy and Desi's characters wedding and follows through I would say at least a week after the marriage.

 

The characters are named Nicky and Tacy, which is as close to Ricky and Lucy as you can get.  This movie was made during the heyday of I Love Lucy.  It plays just like an episode of the show.

[Bastet]

It plays just like an episode of the show.

 

Only better -- to me, anyway.  I grew up watching the film multiple times thanks to my mom, and while I don’t love it, I enjoy it, which is more than I can say for the average episode of I Love Lucy.

 

I often like Lucille Ball on film.  I consider Without Love the unsung hero of the Katharine Hepburn/Spencer Tracy filmography, and Ball’s performance as Kitty is one of the many things I adore about it.

[Crisopera]

I personally enjoy Lucille Ball and Keenan Wynn a lot more than Hepburn and Tracy in Without Love.  I'm always surprised that she didn't make it bigger in movies - her performances in The Big Street and Dance, Girl, Dance equal any big-time star (and are better than many).  And she was absolutely gorgeous (especially in Technicolor).  Take a look at her bizarre number in Ziegfeld Follies - really stunning.

About For Me and My Gal, according to Wikipedia:

 

When the film was initially previewed, the audience was dissatisfied with the ending: they thought that Jo (Garland) should end up with Jimmy (Murphy) rather than Harry (Kelly). This prompted Louis B. Mayer to order three weeks of additional shooting to give Kelly's character more of a conscience and to reduce Murphy's presence in the film.

 

And apparently, Murphy was supposed to play the Kelly part, but when David O Selznick sold Kelly's contract to MGM, he got bumped down.  Thank god!

[Milburn Stone]

And apparently, Murphy was supposed to play the Kelly part, but when David O Selznick sold Kelly's contract to MGM, he got bumped down.  Thank god!

 

Also, thank God Selznick sold Kelly's contract to MGM. I can't imagine what Kelly would have done in films produced by David O. Selznick. For that matter, he would have been wasted even at other studios that did make musicals, like Twentieth and Paramount. And notwithstanding that Cover Girl (in which he's wonderful) came from Columbia, he would have been wasted there, too. Today he might not occupy a space in the cinema firmament much different from that of Dan Dailey! No, Kelly needed MGM as much as they needed him (and as much as we need both of them).

 

Of course, it could be that Selznick snapped up Kelly not because he ever intended to make a musical, but because from the beginning he saw him as a useful asset he could trade or sell to other studios. In which case he was shrewd.

[LuciaMia]

Caught some of the Blank documentaries last night. 'Garlic Is As Good As Ten Mothers 1980' (also on youtube)

The one on Polka Clubs was a hoot. Also from 1980; Ive never seen so much Farrah Fawcett hair in my life.

[Julia]

Of course, it could be that Selznick snapped up Kelly not because he ever intended to make a musical, but because from the beginning he saw him as a useful asset he could trade or sell to other studios. In which case he was shrewd.

From what I've read, he did seem to get particular joy out of getting his father-in-law to pay through the nose for a property.

[elle]

Since we had been discussing Astaire/Rogers movies, I was curious to know others' opinions about another Astaire movie sans Roger.

 

"Daddy LongLegs" was on recently.  Not one of my favorites, even the cast has many favorites - Astaire, of course; Thelma Ritter, Fred Clark.  There are some nice sequences where Leslie Caron is able to dance mostly solo and we can see that she is a lovely dancer.  She also joins the ranks of the few who danced with both Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire.  I know that much was made of the age difference between Kelly and Caron, but it still seemed to work in their movie.  Not so much for Astaire and Caron.

 

OTOH, Astaire and Hepburn - Lovely!