TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Milburn Stone]

One more word about Sylvia Miles' performance above: When I watch it, I realize that Carl Reiner's dialogue for Sally (as portrayed by Sylvia) is exactly the same kind of writing he would do for Sally (as portrayed by Rose Marie). He didn't change the words at all. (I mean, the dialogue is different because the plot is different, but the words for Miles, the gags she has, the sardonic remarks, all would work perfectly for Rose Marie's conception of the character, even though her conception of Sally differed greatly. Reiner didn't have to think how he'd rewrite the character for Sally to come across completely different, he only had to put the writing into a different actor's mouth. Which is an object lesson in the tremendous difference an actor can make.

[Rinaldo]

Very true, @Milburn Stone, and another example comes to mind brings us back to a movie, though not one recently (ever?) shown on TCM: Murder on the Orient Express from 1974. It has to do with the passenger Mrs. Hubbard (played by Lauren Bacall), and this being a classic Agatha Christie mystery I feel it appropriate to hide it behind a SPOILER barrier:

Spoiler

If you know the story, the solution is that all the passengers in the Calais coach jointly performed the murder, as revenge on the kidnapper/murderer of a child whom they all had loved. Most of the passengers don't disguise their names or professions (only their connection to the case) -- they really are a butler, a nanny, and so on. But one passenger, a dithery grandmotherly type forever talking about her husband back home, the only traveler who seemed inconceivable as a murderer, turns out to be the center of the whole crew: the child's grandmother, the first lady of the American dramatic stage, whose name has occasionally been mentioned in the course of the investigation. So it seems essential that we really believe that she's as lovably if tiresomely scatterbrained as she appears, and then that she is in fact a fabled actress -- at the time of filming Helen Hayes would have been the obvious choice, and indeed she was originally cast. But she had to drop out for some reason, and in her place they cast Lauren Bacall. Now, Bacall's personal qualities do not at all convey "sweet empty-headed grandma." But she spoke the same lines that had been written for that characterization, and they came out loud and coarse, tiresome to other passengers in a different way, but one that worked for the story. It was a lesson to me in the difference that casting can make, with no change in the writing.

[Charlie Baker]

What @MILBURN STONE says about the character of Sally is true of that whole pilot.  Sheldon Leonard told Carl Reiner he was wrong for what he wrote for himself, and that if recast, the show would make it.  And he was absolutely right.

To steer this a little more toward classic film, some proposed initial castings for some beloved movies, like Casablanca or The Wizard of Oz--well, I don't believe they would have had the same impact.

[bmoore4026]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Very true, @Milburn Stone, and another example comes to mind brings us back to a movie, though not one recently (ever?) shown on TCM: Murder on the Orient Express from 1974. It has to do with the passenger Mrs. Hubbard (played by Lauren Bacall), and this being a classic Agatha Christie mystery I feel it appropriate to hide it behind a SPOILER barrier:

  Reveal hidden contents

If you know the story, the solution is that all the passengers in the Calais coach jointly performed the murder, as revenge on the kidnapper/murderer of a child whom they all had loved. Most of the passengers don't disguise their names or professions (only their connection to the case) -- they really are a butler, a nanny, and so on. But one passenger, a dithery grandmotherly type forever talking about her husband back home, the only traveler who seemed inconceivable as a murderer, turns out to be the center of the whole crew: the child's grandmother, the first lady of the American dramatic stage, whose name has occasionally been mentioned in the course of the investigation. So it seems essential that we really believe that she's as lovably if tiresomely scatterbrained as she appears, and then that she is in fact a fabled actress -- at the time of filming Helen Hayes would have been the obvious choice, and indeed she was originally cast. But she had to drop out for some reason, and in her place they cast Lauren Bacall. Now, Bacall's personal qualities do not at all convey "sweet empty-headed grandma." But she spoke the same lines that had been written for that characterization, and they came out loud and coarse, tiresome to other passengers in a different way, but one that worked for the story. It was a lesson to me in the difference that casting can make, with no change in the writing.

I think it was shown a long time ago.  And you're right, it should be shown on TCM again.

[jjj]

It has been a while since The Trouble with Angels (1966) aired on TCM, but I read today that the nun on whom the Mary Clancy (Hayley Mills) character was based passed away this week, around age 94.  She was first portrayed in the Jane Trahey semi-autobiographical book Life with Mother Superior, where Jane was the friend to "Mary Clancy"; not surprisingly, the official Dominican convent obituary does not mention the Hayley Mills character! (Jane Trahey died back in 2000).  Links to the TCM background on the film and the obituary for Sister John Eudes Courtney:  http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article/198743|35942/The-Trouble-with-Angels.html and    https://www.sinsinawa.org/news-events/obituaries2017.html  I love this film -- if anyone from TCM reads this thread, I hope they will think about airing it again. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by jjj

[Rinaldo]

I just caught the wraparounds for The Manchurian Candidate tonight -- I have the movie on DVD and have watched it so many times. I was more pleased than I can say to see William Friedkin debunk the long-standing story that the film was withdrawn from availability for decades, or barred by Sinatra's representatives from being shown, or anything like that. Because I remember there being an occasional TV airing, and I first saw it at a movie revival theater in the 1970s (and saw ads for similar schedulings at other times). I hope this clear declaration will make the story die out, though I shouldn't be naive as people seem to love a conspiracy story more than anything.

And Angela Lansbury in this movie... what can I say that hasn't been said many times over?

[voiceover]

Enjoying the Watch TCM showing of One-Way Passage tonight, because it's one of those pictures, just fits New Year's Eve.  I even have a cocktail in one manicured hand, as one should while watching any Kay Francis/William Powell movie.

One reason I love it (and its remake): always finding something new.  This time, it's the realization that the "at first sight" between the two leads is one of the most romantic openings to any movie, ever.

[voiceover]

On 12/27/2017 at 0:34 AM, elle said:

Favorite Dietrich movies?

How the hell did I miss this...this list opportunity??  Fer crissakes, don't mention this to ratgirlagogo.

5.  Destry Rides Again: If only for that rousing "See What the Boys in the Back Room Will Have".

4.  Morocco:  That scene at the table with Gary Cooper!!  *thud*

3.  Lady from Shanghai:  Because Anna May Wong.

2.  Marlene:  There's been doc-talk lately, and this one's a great one.  Maximilian Schell directs.

1.  Knight Without Armour:  Because Robert Donat.

[PaulaO]

jjj, The Trouble with Angels is permanently on my DVR.  I am fond of saying I have a scathingly brilliant idea" on the rare times I actually have an idea.

[Rinaldo]

On 12/21/2017 at 2:31 AM, Crisopera said:

Thanks for the Robin Hood recommendations, all.  It's on my vcr for weekend viewing. Otherwise I would have skipped it.

Did you (or anyone else here) get to it? I don't mean to pin anybody down, but I would like to hear other reactions to this Disney live-action Robin Hood.

[Crisopera]

i really enjoyed it, with all the terrific character actors (James Robertson Justice! A baby-faced Peter Finch!), the wonderfully feisty Maid Marian, Richard Todd much more animated than usual.  I even loved the minstrel!  Do you think Monty Python had him in mind during Holy Grail?  So, it won't replace the 1938 Errol Flynn version, but it makes a very decent runner-up.

[BooksRule]

I have 'The Trouble With Angels' on DVD and watch it now and then.  I love the movie, mainly for Hayley Mills and Mary Wickes.  I'm not sure if I use the phrase 'scathingly brilliant idea' out loud, but I do think it.  Another line I also laughed a lot at was when Mary was looking for something to block the ice cold winter air coming in the window and Rachel handed her a magazine.  Mary looked at the picture on the cover and said 'I can't stuff his Holiness in the window!'  For some reason, that line always cracks me up.   I also love the music (Jerry Goldsmith!).  I read the book it was based on a few years ago, but somehow lost my paperback copy.  One Hayley Mills movie that I wish TCM would show is 'The Truth About Spring'.  Not only for Hayley, but for James MacArthur.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Just a little heads up that TCM is showing the original Godzilla on Wednesday morning. It's a pretty entertaining movie, but most remarkable, to me, is the music.  For the life of me I can't figure out what the time signature is, or maybe it changes with every measure, but it's incredibly effective.  And it goes along building with that unsettling beat, and then drops to a dum dum dum dum.  It's worth it just to drop in for a little listen of that.

[Rinaldo]

16 hours ago, Crisopera said:

I even loved the minstrel!  Do you think Monty Python had him in mind during Holy Grail?

Could be, but there's a whole tradition of "minstrel framing the tale" movies (though I can't recall any specific others right now) that they could be mocking. I confess I usually cringe when I see that a movie is doing this, but in this case I agree that they carry it off convincingly.

16 hours ago, Crisopera said:

So, it won't replace the 1938 Errol Flynn version, but it makes a very decent runner-up.

That seems a very fair summation to me. I agree. As I said in my initial comment, the screenplay has the wit to include the expected episodes but in a different plot order, which helps them to seem new rather than a retread. (And I think the whistling arrows are new.) It uses all three names Robin carries in different legends -- FItzooth, Huntingdon, and Lockley -- and neatly reconciles them, making him Earl of Locksley only at the very end. Nothing can match the romantic sweep of the Errol Flynn flick (with that great Korngold score), but this one is great fun, and ought to be remembered more than it is.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Rinaldo

[mariah23]

TCM just announced Gun Crazy actress Peggy Cummings died Friday from a stroke at age 92.

Edited January 2, 2018 by mariah23
Spelling is important

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Could be, but there's a whole tradition of "minstrel framing the tale" movies (though I can't recall any specific others right now) that they could be mocking. I confess I usually cringe when I see that a movie is doing this, but in this case I agree that they carry it off convincingly.

A movie that employed an enjoyable variation was Cat Ballou.

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

A movie that employed an enjoyable variation was Cat Ballou.

Agreed. The movie has been popping into my mind for various reasons lately... darn it, now I want to see Cat Ballou again, right now!

[ratgirlagogo]

10 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

there's a whole tradition of "minstrel framing the tale" movies

do the singing mice in Babe count for you?

15 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Just a little heads up that TCM is showing the original Godzilla on Wednesday morning.

I assume this will be the original Japanese (English-subtitled) version they've showed the last few years.  As someone who grew up with the Raymond Burr version and the whole cheerfullly goofy family of Tojo monsters, this more serious film was a gut-punch when I first saw it.  I had always read in  film history  books that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings and the more recent h-bomb testing were  overriding themes of the film but since that isn't there in the American dubbed version I never quite got the argument.  In the Japanese language original it's completely explicit.  Also in the intervening years I had seen Takashi Shimura in Ikiru - so impossible not to feel protective of the kindly doctor he played in this.

[bmoore4026]

On 1/2/2018 at 2:33 AM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Just a little heads up that TCM is showing the original Godzilla on Wednesday morning.

That's because it's National Scifi Day!

 

[bmoore4026]

Watching Queen of Outer Space right now.  Can I just say that the women's outfits are absolutely fantastic.  And is it wrong that I'm all for the evil queen killing the chauvinist astronaut men?

Edited January 3, 2018 by bmoore4026

[SeanC]

Bridge to the Sun was quite fascinating, in terms of seeing a film approach that sort of subject-matter so soon after World War II.  And considering that contemporary films were still regularly putting actors in yellowface (indeed, it came out the same year as Breakfast at Tiffany's), it was striking to see James Shigeta as the Japanese romantic lead opposite Carroll Baker.

[voiceover]

The TCM app has been glitching this week, so in an effort to distract, I screened the host's intro to His Girl Friday.  Mistake.

C'mon, Ben -- I know *you've* seen the movie! because obviously the writer for that bit, had not.  The male reporters were called out for "not taking [Roz Russell's character] seriously as a reporter."

Uh...come again?  They knew to a man that she was the best in the room, and none of them bought into her plan to leave the paper & be a housewife.  They didn't take her seriously as a woman, maybe.

It chaps me when the "experts" get it wrong like that.  They need to get the hell off my lawn.

[prican58]

On 1/3/2018 at 3:43 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Watching Queen of Outer Space right now.  Can I just say that the women's outfits are absolutely fantastic.  And is it wrong that I'm all for the evil queen killing the chauvinist astronaut men?

Is that a Zsa Zsa vehicle?

[prican58]

Has anyone had issues with Watch TCM  on their website? It asks me to identify my provider and when I click it it quickly flashes the provider sign in &Ndoesn't let me sign in. I t proceeds to ask again to verify my provider. I cannot watch any movies there. It is frustrating. It tells me to update my Adobe and it still doesn't do it.

Amy  comments? 

[ratgirlagogo]

57 minutes ago, prican58 said:

Is that a Zsa Zsa vehicle?

Yes, dahlink.

[Milburn Stone]

1 hour ago, prican58 said:

Has anyone had issues with Watch TCM  on their website? It asks me to identify my provider and when I click it it quickly flashes the provider sign in &Ndoesn't let me sign in. I t proceeds to ask again to verify my provider. I cannot watch any movies there. It is frustrating. It tells me to update my Adobe and it still doesn't do it.

Amy  comments? 

My only comment is TCM has no one on staff who understands streaming. I base this on their Filmstruck portal on Apple TV being infuriating in its clunky (non)functionality. All the many dozens of portals I've used on Apple TV conform to a basic sort of "architecture," if that's the word, in their viewing functionality; figure out how to use one (you know, the basics, like playing, pausing, moving forward or backward in time), and you've figured out how to use them all. Except Filmstruck. (I suppose being different wouldn't be a sin if different meant better, but it doesn't, it means so, so much anti-intuitively worse.) It boggles the mind. Even selecting a film is a kludgy process. Does no one at TCM actually use their own product?

Edited January 5, 2018 by Milburn Stone

[prican58]

Wow, Milburn! I so rarely go on the site anymore and when I did today to try to see This Woman Is Dangerous I remembered why I hadn't visited. My local cable company's on demand TCM choice only now has about 8-10 choices where they used to have at least 15 or so. Perhaps the skinflints now run TCM. 

Sigh!

[voiceover]

1 hour ago, prican58 said:

Wow, Milburn! I so rarely go on the site anymore and when I did today to try to see This Woman Is Dangerous I remembered why I hadn't visited. My local cable company's on demand TCM choice only now has about 8-10 choices where they used to have at least 15 or so. Perhaps the skinflints now run TCM. 

Sigh!

Milburn is right about the utter indifference of TCM tech.  Fans have problems -- their questions go begging.

Lately the app has been failing to load the films on a consistent basis.  Every other day it works.

prican58: I've actually had your provider issue with, of all things, ABC on demand this week.  Once when I had that issue with Nickelodeon, DirecTV said it was issues with the specific network.  And a week later, it let me sign on.

Most irritating?  The constant push to load an app, access a website...then they appear to be staffed by people who know less than I do about such things.  And I know almost nothing.

Call your provider, see if they can help.  Good luck.

[Milburn Stone]

8 hours ago, voiceover said:

Milburn is right about the utter indifference of TCM tech.  Fans have problems -- their questions go begging.

Lately the app has been failing to load the films on a consistent basis.  Every other day it works.

Their 1998-level mastery of the internet seems all the weirder when you consider they're part of the Time-Warner giant. Other appendages of the company include HBO, TBS, CNN, TNT, etc., all of whose streaming options seem basically fine and up-to-speed. Even if those other arms generate more revenue than TCM, you'd think TCM could "borrow" some of their expertise; have someone fly down from the mothership (or walk across the hall, in the case of CNN) and bring them in line. But no, apparently.

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 7:28 PM, jjj said:

 not surprisingly, the official Dominican convent obituary does not mention the Hayley Mills character!     https://www.sinsinawa.org/news-events/obituaries2017.html 

The information about TTwA has since been added, along with two photos.  Sr. John Eudes' obit is now second on the page linked above.  The one right above her, Sr. Stephana Garvey, is someone I actually knew -- she was the aunt of the 4 girls who grew up across the street from me. Two of them made it up to WI for Sr. Stephana's funeral this week.   

[jjj]

6 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

The information about TTwA has since been added, along with two photos.  Sr. John Eudes' obit is now second on the page linked above.  The one right above her, Sr. Stephana Garvey, is someone I actually knew -- she was the aunt of the 4 girls who grew up across the street from me. Two of them made it up to WI for Sr. Stephana's funeral this week.   

Thank you so much for this additional background, and for mentioning your own connection to this order.  

[Crisopera]

So, I'm home watching Love Affair (a favorite) and was wondering what was the consensus on Love Affair vs. An Affair to Remember?  I have to say I prefer the earlier film.  God knows I love both Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr, but somehow Charles Boyer and Irene Dunne just do more for me.  One of the reasons I love it is how nice they make the "other" partners.  Neither is portrayed as a jerk or dullard, as normal in this type of movie. I guess I'm just a hopeless black-and-white devotee.

I was sorry to see that TCM's Boyer listing doesn't include a movie I've been chasing for years, Private Worlds (1935).  Darn it!  I am looking forward to seeing Liliom, the French version of the play upon which Carousel is based.

[Milburn Stone]

12 minutes ago, Crisopera said:

So, I'm home watching Love Affair (a favorite) and was wondering what was the consensus on Love Affair vs. An Affair to Remember?  I have to say I prefer the earlier film.  God knows I love both Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr, but somehow Charles Boyer and Irene Dunne just do more for me.  One of the reasons I love it is how nice they make the "other" partners.  Neither is portrayed as a jerk or dullard, as normal in this type of movie. I guess I'm just a hopeless black-and-white devotee.

Not arguing against your preference, but I remember Richard Denning being a rather decent sort.

[Crisopera]

I actually like that about both movies - just prefer the earlier one.

[prican58]

Boyer's perf is the one that got me interested in him as an actor. The 1939 version is the best for me. And I love how he wears his hat in it, particularly when they are on the ship's deck after neither one can sleep.

Right now I'm watching I'll Take Sweden. Yeah, low brow but I love these kinds of 60s movies. The dancing. So 60's white America (not meaning to be insulting but it's such an interesting way to dance.) I also enjoy Hope's timing and his line deliveries. Frankie Avalon is so adorable. I notice that the young Tuesday Weld looks an awful lot like Diane Lane.

I just realized that TCM aired Prisoner of Zenda this morning at 6am! Bullocks! Love the Colman/Doug Jr combo. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by prican58

[Rinaldo]

Boyer is one of those people who can be followed through the history of movies, from juvenile to grown-up leading man to senior supporting man, and always wonderful. And as @prican58 just mentioned silly-but-engaging commercial 60s movies, seeing him fulfill the last of those categories in Barefoot in the Park is to see how much an actor's know-how can contribute to one of those frothy newlywed comedies (and his cast mates -- Robert Redford, Jane Fonda, Mildred Natwick -- are all tip-top for the job too).

[prican58]

Rinaldo, I had forgotten about Barefoot.  Def a top tier engaging commercial 60s movie and he lent it a certain something along with that fab cast.

I enjoyed him in that film he did with Chevalier and Caron, Fanny (1961) From wikipedia.... 

Quote

Prior to Warner's decision to film the property as a straight drama, Logan had offered Charles Boyer the role of César but the actor declined because he felt he could not sing and was unwilling to lip sync to someone else's voice. When the songs were dropped, he accepted the offer. He and Maurice Chevalier, cast as Panisse, were old friends but never had performed together, and both welcomed the opportunity to do so.[5]

As always Boyer and Chevalier are the best things in the film. I would have loved to see  those two sit down and talk about life (not necessarily the movies). 

 

PS, Jerry Van Dyke passed away. I always liked him. Brother Dick has lost a few close people this past year or so.  

Edited January 6, 2018 by prican58

[bmoore4026]

For those up in the wee hours of the morning, Gymkata will be playing tonight on TCM Underground at 3:15 Central.  People should watch this glorious film at least once in their lifetime.  It is pure distilled camp and fantastic.

[ratgirlagogo]

40 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

For those up in the wee hours of the morning, Gymkata will be playing tonight on TCM Underground at 3:15 Central.  People should watch this glorious film at least once in their lifetime.  It is pure distilled camp and fantastic.

I was just going to post this.  Back a few pages we had some discussion here of this amazing movie from when it last aired on TCM.  But right before Gymkata is something called Never Too Young to Die that I have never seen (or heard of) and looks to be a complete 80's mess - John Stamos, Vanity, Robert Englund, George Lazenby (!!???!) and as the hermaphrodite (or as the Spectrum cable display calls him a "he/she") villain/ess, Gene Simmons (!!!???).   Jesus fucking christ.  Can't wait.

Edited January 7, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[voiceover]

So: speaking again of "experts" and how they sometimes forget to watch the films they're expert-ing on...

The last time there was an "Arabs in Film" guest, The Sheik (tonight's "Silent Sunday" flick) was featured.  And Teh Expert claimed that the heroine (Agnes Ayres) didn't start to fall for the title character until *after* discovering he was half-white.

Bullshit.  Long before that particular plot twist, she's moony-eyed, writing "Mrs Ahmed Hassan" in the desert sand (okay; actually just "Ahmed", but she might as well have writ the other).  It's probable that the filmmakers made Valentino's Sheik mixed-race (IIRC, not even that; believe Ahmed is British/Spanish) to soothe audience sensibilities, but Diana proved that it made no difference to her.

I love this film, but I love the sequel, Son of the Sheik, more.  Rudy gets to play both father AND son.  Dad is charmingly one-upped by wife Diana (Agnes A reprising her role) who points out that, before he was Father Knows Best, he was Hot-blooded Youth.  And as the title character, he was never sexier.  Just check out the liplock with Vilma Banky: probably one of the greatest screen kisses ever.

Valentino's acting style would be mocked in later years, but he's so much more than a caricatured leering cartoon.  He's passionate, but also profoundly gentle with his romantic interests.  He very nearly crosses the line in Son..., but is brought back from the brink, shamed by his father, and transformed by love at the end.

Edited January 8, 2018 by voiceover

[Milburn Stone]

5 hours ago, voiceover said:

So: speaking again of "experts" and how they sometimes forget to watch the films they're expert-ing on...

The last time there was an "Arabs in Film" guest, The Sheik (tonight's "Silent Sunday" flick) was featured.  And Teh Expert claimed that the heroine (Agnes Ayres) didn't start to fall for the title character until *after* discovering he was half-white.

Bullshit.  Long before that particular plot twist, she's moony-eyed...

There's commonality between this and the other talking-head error you pointed out. Taking you at your word (it's been a long while since I've seen His Girl Friday, and I've never seen The Sheik) I glean that both errors result from pasting "progressive" political interpretation over the evidence of the film. (With Friday, gender politics; with this movie, racial politics.) As a progressive myself, I find this virtue-signaling unfortunate, not to say annoying, not to say condescending toward the films of the past. Condescension toward the filmic past (and the erroneously-supposed "retrograde" attitudes of classic filmmakers) is the last attitude TCM should want to adopt. And progressive arguments ought to be strong enough without searching for support where there is none.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Milburn Stone

[Rinaldo]

I would guess that they also come from a confused attitude of wanting to defend the movie by pre-admitting its possible flaws from current perspectives -- a way to say "yes, we see this and acknowledge this, now let's move on to the next point." But as you say, it does none of us any good to invent elements that aren't in fact there, so as to have something to apologize for. First, be sure you know what you're talking about.

[ratgirlagogo]

The whole "everyone in the past was racist, sexist, homophobic, reactionary, and oh yeah, they were also stupid" thing makes me MENTAL.   Aside from being JUST PLAIN WRONG it's an excuse to not bother learning anything about actual history.  Grrrrrr.........

[jjj]

I had never heard of 10 Rillington Place, which is on right now (Monday night).  What a horrifying, inhumane film.  I will not be able to watch until the end. http://www.tcm.com/watchtcm/movies/92520/10-Rillington-Place/

[ratgirlagogo]

17 hours ago, jjj said:

10 Rillington Place,

That's a great movie, but I do understand you being uncomfortable watching it.  It's based on such a horrible true  story.

[Fairfax]

25 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

That's a great movie, but I do understand you being uncomfortable watching it.  It's based on such a horrible true  story.

I haven't seen the movie but did read the book -- the Christie case was famous in America when I was a teenager.   I'm not sure how to do spoiler tags, so I won't post the background, just a link to the Wikpedia article about it, for those who might be interested.  The criminal cases did lead to a good outcome (in my view).

[voiceover]

Hmph.  The Lion in Winter.  So many things I like about it; not the least, watching Peter O'Toole & Katharine Hepburn chew the scenery.  When they're together onscreen, I just can't look away.

But there's one sticking point for me, and that's Nigel Terry's Prince John. Terry aged nicely, and for all I know, he was a doll offscreen in the 60s.

But, Christ! he was such a troll in this film!  Physically *and* character-wise.  The latter I can almost handwave (though James Goldman, who adapted the screenplay from his stage work, even admitted to "fixing" John in Robin & Marian, because he so disliked that character in LiW).  But if he's going to be that off-putting, at least give me something to look at.  His screen brothers, after all, were believably offspring of that pairing.

But still, hard to imagine someone as shrewd as Henry, placing all that love and faith in...that.  A bratty, spoilt, indulged, but sweet-faced darling: sure.

It doesn't ruin the film for me, but it's tough to buy into that high stakes relationship.  Even accepting that love is blind.

[jjj]

Thanks, I actually went to the Wikipedia article as I was watching the film, wondering how bad it was going to get.  So much more worse that I thought it would go.  I don' t recall the "good outcome", so will have to go back to that page.   ETA:  I had read the film page, not this link, so thank you.  But that poor, poor young husband.  Such injustice. 

4 hours ago, Fairfax said:

I haven't seen the movie but did read the book -- the Christie case was famous in America when I was a teenager.   I'm not sure how to do spoiler tags, so I won't post the background, just a link to the Wikpedia article about it, for those who might be interested.  The criminal cases did lead to a good outcome (in my view).

 

4 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

That's a great movie, but I do understand you being uncomfortable watching it.  It's based on such a horrible true  story.

Edited January 10, 2018 by jjj

[Fairfax]

17 minutes ago, jjj said:

Thanks, I actually went to the Wikipedia article as I was watching the film, wondering how bad it was going to get.  So much more worse that I thought it would go.  I don' t recall the "good outcome", so will have to go back to that page.   ETA:  I had read the film page, not this link, so thank you.  But that poor, poor young husband.  Such injustice. 

 

The "good outcome" (in my view), was an important change in English law that was largely caused by the sad case shown in the movie.  At least it can't happen again.  

[Rinaldo]

2 hours ago, voiceover said:

The Lion in Winter.  So many things I like about it; not the least, watching Peter O'Toole & Katharine Hepburn chew the scenery.

I have a conflicted relationship with the movie. Certainly what you said (and seeing baby Anthony Hopkins and Timothy Dalton before they were "anybody"). It's fun, I happily admit it. But knowing the play, the movie must be the all-time champ at taking modest material and overblowing it: over-scaled, overwrought, over-designed, over-produced, everything. Onstage, it largely plays as comedy, the sarcastic putdowns are in tune with the lightness of it all, and the deliberate anachronisms (the way Christmas is celebrated for instance, which everyone including Goldman knows is half a millennium wrong) are part of the stylized framing. We aren't meant to take the story seriously except as a theatrical opportunity for two grand hams (on Broadway it was Rosemary Harris and Robert Preston) to do their thing, surrounded five up-and-comers in support, in a simple unit set. The way it was filmed just feels wrong. Yet, as I said, what always worked in it still works, so what does it matter what I think.