TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Padma]

10 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

How were they, @Padma? (Well, many of us here are already familiar with Brief Encounter.) I saw about an hour of the middle of The Astonished Heart last night and was intrigued, though perhaps not sufficiently to go back and see all of it. For one thing, I had seen Margaret Leighton only in her "elegant dowager" phase, not her "hot babe" years. And Celia Johnson is always a pleasure, though good lord, weren't they all terribly stiff-upper-lip and civilized about all this (whisper) adultery? That's also quite a story about Coward demanding, a week into shooting, that Michael Redgrave be fired and replaced with himself, reshoots be damned. I've always found Coward an elegant and persuasive actor, but it's hard for me to imagine that Redgrave was inadequate.

@Gemma Violet--"Brief Encounter" is a favorite of mine, too, and so beautifully filmed and directed. If you get TCM "On Demand" it's showing there now.

@Rinaldo -- Yes, it was big dose of stiff upper lip reserve, even in the midst of a tumultuous adulterous affair and a world war. But "The Astonished Heart", though a much weaker film than "Brief.Encounter.",started slowly but built to a lot more -visible- emotional drama. I'm such a fan of Noel Coward, and he's in so few films, that I really enjoyed it. And I was also very surprised by Margaret Leighton as the alluring younger woman as I'd only seen her in older parts (first time I saw her--in "The Best Man"--I was so impressed that I looked her up. She was exactly as you said--unusually elegant esp. for a 1960s film. But she was also very good opposite Coward as the sexy young "object of middle aged desire"

"In Which We Serve"  got excellent reviews (and I can see why Coward insisted on being the lead since he was good friends of Mountbatten, whom he based the script on, as you know.  But I have to admit that the directing (Lean again) held my attention much more than the story, which is never a good thing. I'm afraid I didn't even make it to the end.

You know how we sometimes think of something we'd like to tell a famous person if we were ever to meet him? Well, my person is Michael Feinstein and I would love to ask him if he's ever considered doing one of his "single songwriter" albums of Noel Coward songs to add to Berlin, Kern, etc.. Coward's written some great ones--there are some beautiful romantic ballads, some songs from plays that need to be preceded by bittersweet dialogue, a  sing-speak dramatic song or two, and several fun, clever or silly ones.. He wrote both music and lyrics and it's sad that he's largely forgotten now. I think a nice CD by Feinstein  would be an excellent way to revive interest. (And, yes, I saw "Oh, Coward" but that was a long time ago--long gone and not the same as an album of music. Just sharing a dream--in case anyone here should ever bump into him. :)) 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Padma

[bmoore4026]

OK, I was promised Kwaidan, but we're not getting Kwaidan.  Instead, we're getting Diabolique...again.

There is no justice in the world.

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, Padma said:

You know how we sometimes think of something we'd like to tell a famous person if we were ever to meet him? Well, my person is Michael Feinstein and I would love to ask him if he's ever considered doing one of his "single songwriter" albums of Noel Coward songs to add to Berlin, Kern, etc.. Coward's written some great ones--there are some beautiful romantic ballads, some songs from plays that need to be preceded by bittersweet dialogue, a  sing-speak dramatic song or two, and several fun, clever or silly ones.. He wrote both music and lyrics and it's sad that he's largely forgotten now.

A nice reminder, @Padma--thank you. There are songwriters (like Coward, IMO) who didn't write as many top-drawer songs as the tunesmiths in the pantheon, but whose best songs can stand next to theirs. The Coward song in this category that comes to mind, for me, is Sail Away.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[andromeda331]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 6:19 PM, Rinaldo said:

Showing tonight (and starting right now), 3 TCM premieres in a row, as Ben M just confirmed: the "Sissi" trilogy, starring Romy Schneider as the title character (eventually Empress Elisabeth of Austria) and Karlheinz Böhm as Emperor Franz Joseph. I happened to see them a few years ago, courtesy of a colleague who owned them on DVD -- they are objects of enormous sentimental loyalty in Austria, as is the idea of Sissi herself. (One can buy Sissi souvenirs there.) Completely romanticized fluff, with a certain fascination as a cultural phenomenon. (The Empress's son was the Prince Rudolf of the Mayerling incident; in the movie of that name, Sissi was portrayed by Ava Gardner.)

I love those movies! I watched all three Wednesday night. I've checked every day since then to see if they'll turn up on TCM on demand and they finally did yesterday. I just finished watching the first one again. I know its completely romanticized (I've read their biographies) but Romy Schneider makes her character so charming it doesn't matter. Karlheinz did a good job too. The gowns were beautiful too. 

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Karlheinz did a good job too.

I find him an intriguing figure. For the English-speaking movie and TV market, he often simplified his name to Karl or Carl Böhm, but in German-language work he kept his full first name, presumably to avoid confusion with his father, the eminent and long-lived orchestral conductor Karl Böhm. His debut in English movie acting was in the Michael Powell cult classic, Peeping Tom, after which he was taken up by Hollywood studios for a time, playing Jacob Grimm in The Wonderful World of... and Beethoven for the Walt Disney series (released as a feature in Europe). He even made guest appearances on American shows like The Virginian, Burke's Law, and Combat!, before returning to German-language work (including several Fassbinder films in the 1970s). Maybe all this is known to everyone here, but I became aware of him only relatively recently.

[Gemma Violet]

Quote

Gemma Violet--"Brief Encounter" is a favorite of mine, too, and so beautifully filmed and directed. If you get TCM "On Demand" it's showing there now.

Thanks.  I don't get TCM On Demand unfortunately.  Oh well, I'll just have to wait a few months until TCM airs it again.  lol

[Padma]

13 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

A nice reminder, @Padma--thank you. There are songwriters (like Coward, IMO) who didn't write as many top-drawer songs as the tunesmiths in the pantheon, but whose best songs can stand next to theirs. The Coward song in this category that comes to mind, for me, is Sail Away.

I'd include Sail Away on my Feinstein CD. Along with 13 others (since we make lists here.....)

"I'll See You Again"

“World Weary”

“Zigeuner”

"A Room With a View"

"Poor Little Rich Girl"

Parisian Pierrot"

"Mad Dogs and Englishmen"

"If Love Were All"

"I'll Follow My Secret Heart"

"Someday I'll Find You"

"Mrs Worthington"

"The Stately Homes of England"

And I know Feinstein couldn’t resist,  “I Like America”

I don't know why Coward doesn't seem to be very well known today. Maybe because many of his songs are romantic ballads, maybe they may seem a bit dated today. I was thinking of Kern and Berlin and Porter. They all have one big advantage (esp. Berlin) of being included in a lot of films which allows new audiences (including musicians) to discover them. But I wonder if any of it has to do with how those three are well suited to jazz interpretations which keeps them fresh.  (Of course, Coward wasn't American. A small detail..)  Of the songs above, only the first six might lend themselves to jazz interpretations ,imo, but then again,, most contemporary musicians haven't heard any of his music so how would they know? Feinstein might not be thinking of Noel Coward, but these are all well suited to piano and voice, with a variety of tempos and moods to make a nicely varied CD/live performance, like those that he likes to do with songwriters. Oh well, I'll dream on! .

Edited October 24, 2017 by Padma

[Rinaldo]

I'm impressed, @Padma. You know your Coward! To that list I would only add "Mad about the Boy." (Somehow in my mind, it's a pair with "If Love Were All.")

I do think, in response to your speculations, that some (not all) of the Coward songs have dated a bit in two ways: some are sentimentally Edwardian in an operetta-ish way (like "I'll Follow My Secret Heart") which also leaves American songs of the same type ignored now (think "One Alone" or "Deep in My Heart"); others are witty wordy patter songs on recherché subjects that can't be expected to mean much to American audiences now (your examples "The Stately Homes of England" or "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"; or "Why Do the Wrong People Travel?"). That still leaves a big central range of items that should be better known.

Do you know the 2013 CD Noël and Cole? I've enjoyed it a lot.

[voiceover]

This month's "Word of Mouth" is about Dracula, and the talking heads are Frankenstein, Bride of, and Blacula -- who is hilarious.

Nice touch!  Cheesy, but nice.

[Milburn Stone]

9 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I do think, in response to your speculations, that some (not all) of the Coward songs have dated a bit in two ways: some are sentimentally Edwardian in an operetta-ish way (like "I'll Follow My Secret Heart") which also leaves American songs of the same type ignored now (think "One Alone" or "Deep in My Heart"); others are witty wordy patter songs on recherché subjects that can't be expected to mean much to American audiences now (your examples "The Stately Homes of England" or "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"; or "Why Do the Wrong People Travel?").

You've expertly identified why so many Coward songs leave me cold, even while I admire their craft. Which is why his few songs that don't--I second your nomination, @Padma, of "If Love Were All," to go along with "Sail Away"--make me go, "Whoa, where did that come from??" They just don't seem as though they came from the same writer as the others.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[Padma]

21 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

I'm impressed, @Padma. You know your Coward! To that list I would only add "Mad about the Boy." (Somehow in my mind, it's a pair with "If Love Were All.")

I do think, in response to your speculations, that some (not all) of the Coward songs have dated a bit in two ways: some are sentimentally Edwardian in an operetta-ish way (like "I'll Follow My Secret Heart") which also leaves American songs of the same type ignored now (think "One Alone" or "Deep in My Heart"); others are witty wordy patter songs on recherché subjects that can't be expected to mean much to American audiences now (your examples "The Stately Homes of England" or "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"; or "Why Do the Wrong People Travel?"). That still leaves a big central range of items that should be better known.

Do you know the 2013 CD Noël and Cole? I've enjoyed it a lot.

I agree about the Edwardian style/sentiment but "Why Do the Wrong People Travel?" imo, is a timeless message. :) Seriously,  I agree with the rest of what you say, unless it was all performed together, retrospective-nostalgia-Feinstein-style.

I'd never seen the "Noel & Cole" CD and am thrilled to see that it was done so recently. It's heavier on the Coward patter songs than I would have been, but I understand they're emphasizing the parallels of sophistication, wit and charm.  I guess it will be another thing you've recommended here that I'm going to order. Thanks! (I think).

11 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

You've expertly identified why so many Coward songs leave me cold, even while I admire their craft. Which is why his few songs that don't--I second your nomination, @Padma, of "If Love Were All," to go along with "Sail Away"--make me go, "Whoa, where did that come from??" They just don't seem as though they came from the same writer as the others.

"If Love Were All" is the first Coward song I heard--on television with him on the piano.  It's remains one of my favorites and maybe that timing is one reason why I don't see it as that dissimilar to some of his other songs. I find that same feeling of wistfulness and even a touch of melancholy  in many of the romantic ones . It's a quality I like in his music--along with the wit and charm, of course.  

On the subject of Coward and TCM,  I tried to watch "Star!" when they showed it last month.  I thought Daniel Massey was good as Noel Coward (he was Coward's godson), but I just don't think Julie Andrews is a very good actress outside of a limted kind of part. The director (Wise) and screenwriter interviewed lots of people who knew Lawrence, and they also had cooperation from Coward and Beatrice Lillie (another close friend)..but it just wasn't a good part for Julie Andrews (including the way she sings), and that made it unwatchable, imo. I couldn't even make it through 10 minutes!. 

[Rinaldo]

11 hours ago, Padma said:

"Why Do the Wrong People Travel?" imo, is a timeless message. :)

I used to enjoy it, but last time I listened, it hit me in a different way, as unbearably snobbish. I know a certain lofty upper-crust-English outlook is built into the Coward outlook, and that's fine, but this time, all I could hear was "why don't the ugly clumsy people who don't have the same tastes as I do just stay out of my sight forever?" Not only did it feel ugly, but some of the specifics seemed just weird (eating your steak rare is a sign of boorishness?). But who knows, next time it may seem different yet again.

11 hours ago, Padma said:

"If Love Were All" is the first Coward song I heard

For me too, coincidentally enough, and by further coincidence (see below) it was a recording by Julie Andrews, on one of her first solo LPs.

11 hours ago, Padma said:

I just don't think Julie Andrews is a very good actress outside of a limted kind of part.

I agree, but I would put it more positively: every actor has a "radius" of roles they can embody (the center being their own everyday self), and some have a wider range than others, and some actors I love don't have the widest radius but are still wonderful within it (Cary Grant comes to mind). It's not the difference between good and bad acting.

That said, yes, however wide or narrow Julie Andrews's range may be, Gertrude Lawrence was way way outside it. The essence of Lawrence's star quality (and she was loved on both sides of the Atlantic, so her charisma must have been huge) seems to have been an insouciance that just shrugged aside any dramatic or vocal demands as if they weren't worth fussing about. Singing in tune? sticking to one's blocking? that's for ordinary people. And somehow being in the presence of this unique personality made her irresistible to theater audiences (it doesn't really come across in her recordings, or in the few movies of hers that I've seen). Meanwhile, the essence of Julie Andrews, at least at that date, was careful preparation, determination to please if it killed her, working hard and dutifully, keeping everything under control. All of which couldn't been more opposite to what was called for here. Plus the movie itself was misconceived in almost every way (Daniel Massey aside, as you rightly say): schematic script construction that thinks it's Citizen Kane while actually having nothing to reveal; dreadful choreography and musical staging (Michael Kidd should hang his head in shame); musical arrangements that are neither authentic to the originals nor flattering to what Andrews could do. It's an unbearable movie, though I say it with regret. The first time in my life I remember going to a new movie hoping to be delighted (I was a major Julie Andrews fan at the time, as were a lot of people), and walking out dismayed.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Rinaldo

[Crisopera]

Just as Julie Andrews was ultra-miscast as Gertrude Lawrence, Ms. Lawrence was ultra-miscast as Amanda in the first movie version of The Glass Menagerie.  Awful, both of them.  I'll always be sorry that Lawrence didn't get to do the movie of Private Lives - she must have been astonishing on stage (and Norma Shearer is very arch and heavy-handed to me even though I like her in other early talkies).  Although it's certainly possible that her charisma wouldn't have come across on screen - take a look at The Guardsman, with Alfred Lunt and Lynn Fontanne who were legendary on stage, but just aren't very interesting on screen.  My favorite Coward song is "I'll See You Again" from Bittersweet (another terrible movie adaptation, with MacDonald & Eddy, with MacDonald acting for at least two and both of them being about 10 years too old for the part, since they didn't use the flashback structure of the play).  I think one reason that Coward as a composer is semi-forgotten today is that his musicals tend to be "cast of thousands" types (Cavalcade, Bittersweet, etc.) which are hard to revive in today's theater economy (and the books would need significant rewriting).  His straight plays are revived often, however.

[Rinaldo]

12 minutes ago, Crisopera said:

Ms. Lawrence was ultra-miscast as Amanda in the first movie version of The Glass Menagerie.  Awful

So true. That's one of her screen performance that I've seen, and Mimi (the La Bohéme story) is the other. In both, her attempts at the heavy emoting needed comes across, I hate to say it, as amateur play-acting. And neither of them gives her a chance to do "her thing" onscreen; did any of her films? (Or even if they did, was she the type to inadvertently clam up without an audience to draw her out?) Battle of Paris, with Charlie Ruggles and Arthur Treacher, looks semi-promising, especially with two Porter songs for her. Likewise Aren't We All? because it's from a Lonsdale play, and No Funny Business, which pairs her with a very young Olivier might conceivably be in her better range. Probably the most often seen of her movies from the 1930s (though I have yet to see it) is Rembrandt, with Charles Laughton and Elsa Lanchester; reports differ as to whether her special quality comes through in it.

I'm still figuring out what I think of Coward's ultimate stature as a playwright. I don't think it's the "cast of thousands" aspect that hurts his works' chances so much, as it is that they don't "say anything" to an audience in the way that we expect, and that theater needs to do in order to outlive its own era. Most of his stage work comprises shrewdly crafted vehicles for himself -- either for his songs, or for himself and his friends to act in -- and is mostly about the fun of getting to see two charismatic stars do their thing and interact for a couple of hours. And I genuinely feel that that's a function of entertainment that TV has taken over for itself. If we want to spend some time seeing Allison Janney be tough & funny, for instance, we can do so for free in our living room every week. So, although his plays are still revived, I wonder how much longer that will continue to happen. Blithe Spirit may have the best chances, because the premise remains amusing and a little bit provocative, and it's brief enough not to outwear its welcome. But Private Lives has one situation that it spins out for three acts. Design for Living always seems like it's going to be wonderfully outrageous fun (two men and a woman who keep pairing up in all possible ways -- yes, all possible -- then break up again), but on the stage it's just endless talk, and not fascinating talk either. Hay Fever I saw in a legendary revival with Rosemary Harris, and it's a premise with episodes (self-indulgent artistic types weekending in a country house) and barely any plot. I look forward to seeing Present Laughter in the forthcoming PBS airing. I want them to survive, but I fear they're not going to. Even in his own later life, if we are to believe his diaries, he kept predicting great success for each new venture, and then blaming others for the flop each one always turned out to be.

[Crisopera]

Yes, I always want Coward's plays to be better than they turn out to be.  When I was very young, I saw the other legendary revival of Hay Fever (Edith Evans, Maggie Smith, directed by Coward) and, at the age of 7, thought it was the funniest thing ever.  But reading it now, it is a bit disappointing.

BTW, Renee Zellweger has been cast as Judy Garland in a biopic centering on her last concerts in London, I believe.  Any thoughts?

[Rinaldo]

Well Edith Evans and Maggie Smith together (or really, either of them separately) can make almost anything seem (no, be) the funniest thing ever. I saw Dame Maggie in Private Lives in London in 1973, and I remember very little about it except how incredibly funny she was. (I now suspect she was being rather naughty, gathering all the focus to herself when it should be at least a two-hander; or maybe the others were weak and it needed her to do what she was doing.)

[prican58]

Crisopera, I don't really know how I feel about RZ playing Judy. I'm sure pro make up people in Hollywood could make her look just like Judy and RZ is a good actress. I just wonder why anyone would even want to attempt to make a film about Judy. It's been done with Judy Davis who did a fabulous job. Will it be a true accounting or just "based" on real life? 

[ratgirlagogo]

7 hours ago, Crisopera said:

BTW, Renee Zellweger has been cast as Judy Garland in a biopic centering on her last concerts in London, I believe.  Any thoughts?

My first thought is no, I just can't see this at all. I can't see her as having that overwhelming charisma that Judy had  even as a very small child and retained right down  to the end of her life, no matter how much of a mess she became.   Also, can Renee Zelwegger actually sing?  Not meant as a dig, I'm asking.

[voiceover]

Watching the last of Nicholas & Alexandra.  I was never much of a fan of the film, though it has improved with age.  And the last 45 minutes is compelling, because you know what's coming, and it's terrible.

Mostly, though, I watch it for Michael Jayston in the title role.  He is my 2nd favorite Mr Rochester (Timothy Dalton is #1), and a member of my Top 75 "I'd Hit That".

[Rinaldo]

9 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Also, can Renee Zelwegger actually sing? 

Sure, as far as that question goes. She sang throughout Chicago.

The real issue is, "Can she sing in a way that plausibly plausibly evokes Judy Garland, one of the great popular voices of the last century, even in her declining years?" I would be inclined to say No. It's hard to think of anybody who could do that. Possibly they'll use Judy's actual recordings from those concerts (similarly to what was done for Jessica Lange when she played Patsy Cline). I don't know if RZ would go for that, but it might embarrass her less than aiming to vocally embody a legend.

I just think the whole thing is a bad idea.

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

I just think the whole thing is a bad idea.

I do too, but not because of miscasting or the "degree of difficulty" RZ will have. (Who knows, she may do a bang-up job. I can imagine it.) I think it's a bad idea because I can't imagine what purpose will be served by showing Judy Garland in her most humiliating years.

[Milburn Stone]

Wanted to call out a pretty amazing film I saw on the TCM/Criterion streaming portal they call Filmstruck. Henri-Georges Clouzot's Le Corbeau (The Raven). It's in a grouping of films on the channel that were made in France during the Nazi occupation. About a half-dozen such films are in the grouping, but the rest, so goes my impression, are escapist fare. (Which you'd expect from the milieu in which they were made.) Le Corbeau is anything but. It puts our noses into a society (and human nature) the stench of which could allow an immoral occupation to take place and be tolerated. Remarkable that it was made under the watchful eye of the Nazis. (I can only guess they didn't understand it.)

I've seen another of Clouzot's films (the later Les Diaboliques) but not the rest of them, including The Wages of Fear. I need to.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[Padma]

I'm another who has a bad feeling about the Judy biopic. Here's what EW said, in brief:

"....Acclaimed British stage director Rupert Goold will helm the project, and principal photography is set to begin in February. Tom Edge (The Crown) wrote the script, and David Livingstone is producing for Calamity.

The official announcement for the film describes the plot as follows: “Winter 1968 and showbiz legend Judy Garland arrives in Swinging London to perform in a sell-out run at The Talk of the Town. It is 30 years since she shot to global stardom in The Wizard of Oz, but if her voice has weakened, its dramatic intensity has only grown. As she prepares for the show, battles with management, charms musicians, and reminisces with friends and adoring fans, her wit and warmth shine through. Even her dreams of romance seem undimmed as she embarks on a courtship with Mickey Deans, her soon-to-be fifth husband. And yet Judy is fragile. After working for 45 of her 47 years, she is exhausted; haunted by memories of a childhood lost to Hollywood; gripped by a desire to be back home with her kids. Will she have the strength to go on?”

The film seems poised to follow the same period of Garland’s life featured in the Tony-nominated 2012 play End of the Rainbow,"...

Producers say Judy will feature many of Garland’s most beloved songs,

***

She was in bad health when she performed for  5 weeks in London in February 1969. She died in June, at 47, after recently marrying her fifth husband, Mickey Deens, who sounds lie a sleazy jerk to me, based on Wikipedia at least:

"In 1966, according to Deans' book "Weep No More, My Lady," he met actress and singer Judy Garland at her hotel in New York. A mutual friend of theirs asked Deans to deliver a package of stimulant tablets to Garland. Deans recalled that she seemed cordial but disoriented. Because Garland's two youngest children were present, Deans felt it appropriate to introduce himself as a doctor. After three years of intermittent dating, Deans proposed and they were married on March 15, 1969, in London. Deans worked to promote Garland's career toward the end of her life, but found it impossible to control her excessive use of prescription drugs. Deans discovered Garland dead on the morning of June 22, 1969. Although many obituaries at the time stated Garland was found on the floor of their bathroom, Deans stated that he found her seated on the toilet. The coroner's autopsy later determined she died from an accidental, incautious overdose of barbiturates.[citation needed]

[aradia22]

Quote

My first thought is no, I just can't see this at all. I can't see her as having that overwhelming charisma that Judy had  even as a very small child and retained right down  to the end of her life, no matter how much of a mess she became.   Also, can Renee Zelwegger actually sing?  Not meant as a dig, I'm asking.

Yeah, I'm with you. The director has done a lot of Shakespeare... and the British production of American Psycho the musical, which tells me nothing. Maybe it will be the dark, quiet, possibly epic sort of biopic. Or maybe he'll do a by-the-numbers job like any for-hire director. While I don't think the film feels necessary, the official announcement doesn't sound too bad. It's just that even by the standards of one of those kinds of movies... I would certainly cast Renee Zellwegger. You need someone with a real force of personality. Someone with a bit of diva. A Judy Davis. A Jessica Lange. If we're talking Chicago, even Catherine Zeta Jones. Not that I'm saying they would be any more accurate as Judy Garland specifically but one of these kinds of a roles is built for a specific sort of actress. You can't be a whimpery, mumbling sort of a baby bird. You can't play it quiet and dignified and restrained. It takes real control to manage the tone so it's dramatics and not hysterics. 

Side note: I don't hate the idea of an actress cast as a real person lip-synching to that person's vocals (though preferably not the canned-sounding recording unless that's the only thing available). If they're really trying like Angela Bassett then I can suspend my disbelief enough to make it work. 

Just for fun this is what the internet gave me when I googled actresses who look like Judy. Do you feel like any of them would be better cast?

Elizabeth Perkins, Katherine Heigl, Joan Cusack, Anne Hathaway, Winona Ryder, Rachel Weisz, Felicity Jones

Also, do you think it's more important to get a look-alike or to get someone who embodies the spirit of Judy Garland? Like Frank Langella bearing no resemblance to Richard Nixon.

[ratgirlagogo]

8 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Sure, as far as that question goes. She sang throughout Chicago.

Whoops, you're right.  Forgot all about that. 

 

8 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

The real issue is, "Can she sing in a way that plausibly plausibly evokes Judy Garland, one of the great popular voices of the last century, even in her declining years?" I would be inclined to say No.

 Yep.

[ratgirlagogo]

14 hours ago, voiceover said:

a member of my Top 75 "I'd Hit That".

Snort.  

[Crisopera]

Milburn Stone - did you know that Otto Preminger remade Le Corbeau in 1951 as The 13th Letter, with what looks like an interesting cast - Charles Boyer, Linda Darnell, and Francoise Rosay?  Can't speak to quality as I've seen neither, but have always wanted to see the French movie.

[Crisopera]

I know that A Damsel in Distress has a rather bad reputation and certainly Joan Fontaine is a stiff as the ingenue, but I love it.  If you squint and ignore Fontaine, it's really a wonderful movie.  A funny script by P. G. Wodehouse, George Stevens directing in his best comedy mode, a lovely Gershwin score ("A Foggy Day," "Stiff Upper Lip," "Things Are Looking Up", etc.), a cast full of juicy British character actors (including the well-known bandleader, Ray Noble, who is very funny as an archetypal "silly-ass" Brit), and some wonderful numbers, including the two with George Burns and Gracie Allen (who knew they could dance so well?).  I mean, what more could you want?  (Okay, an ingenue who could dance, but otherwise?)

[Milburn Stone]

12 minutes ago, Crisopera said:

I know that A Damsel in Distress has a rather bad reputation and certainly Joan Fontaine is a stiff as the ingenue, but I love it.  

I've never heard it had a bad reputation. I join you in my love for it (and don't mind Joan Fontaine in it either), but I think our take might be less in the vein of "iconoclasm" and more in the vein of "conventional wisdom." :)

[Rinaldo]

I think @Milburn Stone is closer to the mark. Sure A Damsel in Distress suffers in comparison to the Astaire-Rogers series that it interrupts, because it lacks a viable romantic partner for Fred Astaire. But I've never heard it called "bad" as a whole; it's from Fred's prime period with all the production values thereof, it has all the assets so well listed by @Crisopera, and I think I've made a similar list here in the past, though it's hard to search through 115 pages. But yes, a great Gershwin score, nearly every song a winner. And George and Gracie are bliss in every moment they're onscreen. The two of them constitute one of Fred's best "partners."

[Wiendish Fitch]

A Damsel in Distress does have its moments (Burns and Allen and a Gershwin score?! Sweet!), but, hoo boy, Joan Fontaine is a big ol' fly in the ointment; bland, forgettable, can't dance, and has absolutely no chemistry with Astaire. I kept waiting for her to be revealed the wrong choice first woman, but alas, she's our main love interest.

 Frankly, I can count on one hand the number of times I've truly liked Fontaine in a role (Rebecca and Letter from an Unknown Woman); I thought she was too whiny as an ingenue (her scenes in The Women are an utter chore), and she later came off as haughty, stiff, and disingenuous. Sorry, but I'll take Olivia de Havilland any day.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Wiendish Fitch

[Milburn Stone]

28 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Frankly, I can count on one hand the number of times I've truly liked Fontaine in a role (Rebecca and Letter from an Unknown Woman)...

How do you feel about her in Suspicion? I think she's good in it. I saw the last third of it again recently (had DVR'ed if off TCM) and I was struck how Hitchcock organized a series of scenes that had the same arc: Joan receives reassuring information that dispels her fears about Cary, and then, just as the scene is about to end, hears some new wrinkle on that information that plunges her even deeper into anxiety than before. It's almost sadistic the way Hitchcock keeps giving the character relief only to snatch it away (far more than her merely going from anxiety to worse anxiety to worse anxiety would be). Fontaine handles the journey she makes in these scenes from anxiety to sunlit relief to sickening anxiety quite believably, I think.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[Wiendish Fitch]

7 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

How do you feel about her in Suspicion? I think she's good in it. I saw the last third of it again recently (had DVR'ed if off TCM) and I was struck how Hitchcock organized a series of scenes that had the same arc: Joan receives reassuring information that dispels her fears about Cary, and then, just as the scene is about to end, hears some new wrinkle on that information that plunges her even deeper into anxiety than before. It's almost sadistic the way Hitchcock keeps giving the character relief only to snatch it away (far more than her merely going from anxiety to worse anxiety to worse anxiety would be). Fontaine handles the journey she makes in these scenes from anxiety to sunlit relief to sickening anxiety quite believably, I think.

Well, to be honest, I haven't watched Suspicion in years, because I despise the ending so much, so I am very biased in that sense. Maybe one day I'll give it another chance... maybe.

[Rinaldo]

36 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

can't dance

And in this, I also think she was badly served by the studio/director/producer, whoever decided she should have a dance duet with Astaire to "Things Are Looking Up" and how it should go. Either leave the poor girl out of the dance -- which of us, ordered to trip the light fantastic with Astaire, wouldn't look like a lummox by comparison, no matter how considerate he tried to be? -- or give her something unobtrusive and graceful, and shoot it in the usual way. As it is, what with the angles from behind trees and rocks, they're all but shouting that our eyes must be protected from her ineptitude. If handled sensibly, she needn't have come off any worse than, say, Virginia Dale or Paulette Goddard, who got through their requisite dances without undue embarrassment.

36 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I can count on one hand the number of times I've truly liked Fontaine in a role (Rebecca and Letter from an Unknown Woman

I agree that she's good in both of those, and not so much in many of her other movies from the 40s. But I've been finding that in her later career, perhaps accepting that her big days as a movie star were over, she gave some unobtrusively good performances in small pictures (like the Barrie adaptation directed by Mitchell Leisen in 1951, Darling, How Could You?) or secondary parts in bigger pictures (I just saw Tender Is the Night for the first time, and while it's a mess in many respects, Fontaine is very effective in a secondary role of the type that a few years later would have automatically gone to Maggie Smith or Sian Phillips).

As I've mentioned before, I thought she was laughable in Suspicion the first time I saw it, at a revival house in DC in 1971. But I was a young know-it-all then, and I need to find out what the older more sensible me thinks of her in it. Next time it comes around....

[ratgirlagogo]

7 hours ago, Crisopera said:

I know that A Damsel in Distress has a rather bad reputation

It does with me, at least.  Glad you all enjoy it anyway.  So much less than the sum of its parts for me.   It's always a surprise for me all over again that any film with a Wodehouse script, a Gershwin score, and such an amazing cast could feel so flat to me, but it does.  And I have no problem at all with Joan Fontaine as an actress in anything so that's not it either.  It's not a bad film at all but I want so much to love it and I just can't.

Edited October 30, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[Crisopera]

It's possible that I gleaned the "bad reputation" from Arlene Croce's Astaire/Rogers book (I can't believe it's out of print - happy I still have my original!) or possibly Pauline Kael.  I was young and impressionable then.

PS.  I'm not a huge Joan Fontaine fan, but she had a couple of good parts as bad women, in Ivy (1947) and Born to Be Bad (1950), in which her butter-wouldn't-melt aspect really works.  Otherwise, I agree with Wiendish Fitch - give me Olivia every day!

[voiceover]

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is not my favorite Valentino...maaaaybe Top 10 (well, he's not in it very much), but it's got its moments.  

The tango is famous, of course (writer June Mathis stuck that scene in because Rudy made his professional bones as a dancer), though anyone expecting to see the silent-movie version of Dancing with the Stars may be disappointed.  There's no flash, and the participants are practically swaddled in their Argentinian costumes.  But when you watch closely, you see he moves with her as one; it's practically sex standing up.

What strikes me down is his first close-up.  He sees her, and exhales the smoke from his nostrils in that moment.  Christ.

An imperfect comparison, but it has always put me in mind of Gary Cooper's farewell salute in Wings.  A second on the screen for both, but in that capture, you see the reason for the immortality.

Um.  I think I had a cigarette here somewhere...

[voiceover]

The TCM interviews always have something to chew on, but I definitely have my favorites.  And I think the one with Sophia Loren will rank right up there with Luise Rainer's.  Edoardo Ponti did a wonderful job with his mother; it felt almost as if you were a silent third at dinner!

I was happy to hear that A Special Day was one of her two favorites of her partnership with Mastroianni -- happier still that they showed it afterwards.  A few years ago I tried to track it down, but could only find poorly-made VHS reproductions (Criterion finally released it last year).

I can't say it was better than I remembered.  It's been 40 years! When I first saw it, all I took in was the glorious filmstock, and the glorious Marcello.  

This time around, I got that "last day on earth" vibe.  And of course, now I'm watching it from their side of the age divide.  Those two, together, turning that amazing sexual chem into something different, more profound, than they'd shown us before.

Edited November 3, 2017 by voiceover

[StatisticalOutlier]

Decades ago I read a ton of Hollywood biographies and autobiographies.  With Joan Fontaine and Olivia de Havilland, the only thing I can remember is that one of them made fun of the other one for thinking "misled" was pronounced "my-zuld."  I thought it was hilariously petty, and of course to this day I mispronounce it that way in my head when I read it.

And a programming alert:  TCM is showing Our Vines Have Tender Grapes on Monday night.  I watched it at random a while back, and found it so sweet and, uh, tender.  It's just the story of a family living on a farm in Wisconsin--Edward G. Robinson and Agnes Moorehead are Margaret O'Brien's parents.  Not much happens, but it's the sort of movie where I just enjoy being in these people's presence.  I'm not a huge consumer of Edward G. Robinson and Agnes Moorehead, and they wouldn't be at the top of my list of people to play ideal parents, but they were lovely here.

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

one of them made fun of the other one for thinking "misled" was pronounced "my-zuld."  I thought it was hilariously petty, and of course to this day I mispronounce it that way in my head when I read it.

I don't doubt the incident's truth, but this is one of those bits that has been claimed to have been heard by countless others over the years since. There's even a scene in Carnal Knowledge about it. (It may be "mizz-uld" there.)

[voiceover]

On 11/4/2017 at 1:09 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

 TCM is showing Our Vines Have Tender Grapes on Monday night.  I watched it at random a while back, and found it so sweet and, uh, tender.  It's just the story of a family living on a farm in Wisconsin--Edward G. Robinson and Agnes Moorehead are Margaret O'Brien's parents.  Not much happens, but it's the sort of movie where I just enjoy being in these people's presence.

This is (list alert! list alert!) on my Top 10 Christmas Movies.  Everybody's good here, but front & center is the relationship between Daddy Edward and Daughter Margaret.  A traveling circus arrives in the middle of the night, and he takes her to watch the animals being unloaded.  And spends a fiver he doesn't have so she can sit on the elephant.  

A great moment in Movie Parent history.

[Charlie Baker]

An appreciation of Now, Voyager, with a personal angle from the writer.

Now Voyager 75th Anniversary

[Inquisitionist]

TCM is showing several Miriam Hopkins movies today.  I can't recall seeing her in anything, so I've set my DVR to record some of them. 

[bmoore4026]

It's Navy Day on TCM!

[Wiendish Fitch]

22 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

TCM is showing several Miriam Hopkins movies today.  I can't recall seeing her in anything, so I've set my DVR to record some of them. 

Hopkins was at her best when William Wyler (These Three, The Heiress) or Ernst Lubitsch (Trouble in Paradise, Design for Living) was at the helm; otherwise, she had a tendency to be shrill and histrionic.

[Rinaldo]

4 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

It's Navy Day on TCM!

Given that song, it's a shame they're not showing Can't Stop the Music!

[bmoore4026]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Given that song, it's a shame they're not showing Can't Stop the Music!

Well, it didn't really have much to do with the Navy or ocean and what not.

Maybe on TCM Underground one day?

[ratgirlagogo]

8 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Maybe on TCM Underground one day?

I feel like they HAVE shown it on TCM Underground in the last few years (or maybe I saw it on IFC or Sundance)  but I don't know that there's anyway to find that out.  It IS  in the TCM database.

[voiceover]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:54 AM, Charlie Baker said:

An appreciation of Now, Voyager, with a personal angle from the writer.

Now Voyager 75th Anniversary

Thanks for the link!  Definitely a perspective (mental health) that isn't  usually addressed when talking about that film.

Made me think of this: Charlotte recognized something of herself in Tina (Jerry's daughter) and assisted in her treatment.  This is an aspect (Voyager's approach to a tween's mental health) also worth studying, and comparing to, say, the 60s teenage girl-breakdown films (like Splendor in the Grass).

4 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I feel like they HAVE shown it on TCM Underground in the last few years (or maybe I saw it on IFC or Sundance)  but I don't know that there's anyway to find that out.  It IS  in the TCM database.

Agreed; though I may be remembering seeing Xanadu.  I know Carwash popped up on Underground last year.

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:54 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Hopkins was at her best when William Wyler (These Three, The Heiress) or Ernst Lubitsch (Trouble in Paradise, Design for Living) was at the helm; otherwise, she had a tendency to be shrill and histrionic.

I managed to watch The Richest Girl in the World last night.  It's a slight (75 minutes) comedy pairing Hopkins with Joel McCrea, whose performances I tend to enjoy.   It was fine, but I kept getting distracted by co-star Fay Wray's beauty.  Wow, she was a stunner.