TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[psychoticstate]

14 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

What a great list, @psychoticstate! And almost all from movies I'm familiar with, yet I hadn't thought of them for this. As this plan of weekly 5-lists seems designed in part to lead into fruitful side-discussions, may I venture some further thoughts on one of these:

No disagreement on the substance of this. I finally saw the film last spring (having heard much praise for it in advance) and enjoyed it a lot. Jo Cotten truly is superb (as is Teresa Wright). It's a different milieu and atmosphere from other Hitchcock movies, which adds to the distinctiveness of the pleasure.

But I find a lot of little problems around the edges. Most accounts of the film acknowledge them, but wave them off saying they "don't matter."  Yet I find that they do matter: not fatally, but enough to bump this title down a few rungs in my Favorite Hitchcock list. I'm talking about issues like the way the investigation of the suspect is handled (letting him walk openly past them in the opening scene even though they're watching for him [yes, they don't know what he looks like, but they should be looking extra hard in that case!]; hanging out near the family home for weeks on end apparently doing nothing to advance their case except proposing marriage), or young Charlie deciding to let her uncle get away with what he's done.

Am I being too fussy? I really did want to love it unreservedly (as I do with, for instance, Strangers on a Train). But such loose ends do add up for me, and nag at me. How do others feel about them (or do you disagree that they're issues at all?)?

 

13 hours ago, Padma said:

I agree that "Shadlow of a Doubt" has its flaws, but I enjoyed seeing a different villain/woman dynamic in the "favorite uncle/beloved brother" creepiness and it taking place in unsophisticated small town America. Plus, Cotten and Wright were both so good.

Yesterday TCM showed "Dial M for Murder" which reminded me how many of those kinds of villains Hitchcock had, in addition to the obviously crazy ones like Perkins and Walker.  I'm sure there are more than five of the suave, likable, good-looking ones, but 5 favorites came immediately to mind (including those who the audience isn't sure of).... Cotton (Shadow of a Doubt); Grant (Suspicion); Milland (Dial "M" for Murder); Rains (Notorious); Mason (North by Northwest).   Quite a lot of top drawer appealing villains from one director.

Thank you, @Rinaldo!  I am really enjoying these top 5 lists.  Even if I don't participate (normally because I show up too late), I still go back and read them and it's always fascinating to me.  And as you said, it certainly whets the appetite for some of the films.

Teresa Wright was great in Shadow of a Doubt, wasn't she?  I also loved her small role in Somewhere in Time.  

I love Hitchcock's less "showy" films like Doubt, Rebecca, Dial M, etc.  (And Mr. and Mrs. Smith for being a comedy)   The tension is so well paced and done and certainly makes you wonder if the person is truly guilty.  There are issues in the films but they certainly don't detract from it overall.

@Padma, I'm glad you mentioned Suspicion.  Great little film but I always wish that Cary Grant hadn't talked Hitch out of keeping his character's original guilt.  I understand that he always played the good guy but having him be guilty, like Boyer in Gaslight would have been fascinating.  (Although it certainly went against types like North by Northwest or Charade. 

[Rinaldo]

OK, thanks for the clarification. I took it for a quote because I've read similar things elsewhere (but not yet here). 

Yes, I consider it a major misinterpretation, but apparently it's one others have shared, so I ought to be nicer about it. Here's a paragraph from the TMC page

Spoiler

Early preview audiences were so confused by the ending of A Letter to Three Wives that there were public debates over which of the three husbands ran off with Addie Ross, and General Douglas MacArthur had an aide write director Joseph L. Mankiewicz for clarification. Mankiewicz explained the plot to the New York Times, then quipped, "The people who've been doing the wondering don't believe what they hear in the picture." People still speculate that Jeanne Crain's absent husband really did run off with Addie, but Paul Douglas' character lied to soften the blow and bring problems with his wife (Linda Darnell) to a head.

Also, I read that

Spoiler

 

.. on the DVD Special Features, the voice-over commentary by the writer's son, says plain out that altho the ending is confusing, it was Porter [Paul Douglas] who ran away with Addie. Joseph L. Manckiwietz who wrote the screenplay said he was surprised that anyone was confused.

 

though I haven't heard the DVD commentary myself. What the Paul Douglas character actually says is

Spoiler

"Deborah would have found out in the morning anyway" -- what she would have found out is what Porter has just told her, the truth -- Brad is coming back in the morning, he hasn't left her.

So I hope that settles it.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Rinaldo

[Crisopera]

I really love Shadow of a Doubt - and it's a crime that Joseph Cotten wasn't nominated for an Oscar - the scene at the dinner table is genuinely terrifying.  "They're human beings!"  "Are they?"  I must say, I've never noticed the problems mentioned above.  I love the fact that he filmed it on location in Santa Rosa, the humanity of its characters, and that it's so solidly grounded in its middle-class milieu.  It's one of my top Hitchcock movies.

Settles any confusion for me, Rinaldo!

Edited December 16, 2016 by Crisopera

[ratgirlagogo]

16 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

But I find a lot of little problems around the edges. Most accounts of the film acknowledge them, but wave them off saying they "don't matter."  Yet I find that they do matter: not fatally, but enough to bump this title down a few rungs in my Favorite Hitchcock list. I'm talking about issues like the way the investigation of the suspect is handled (letting him walk openly past them in the opening scene even though they're watching for him [yes, they don't know what he looks like, but they should be looking extra hard in that case!]; hanging out near the family home for weeks on end apparently doing nothing to advance their case except proposing marriage), or young Charlie deciding to let her uncle get away with what he's done

I understand how that would bother you, but none of those things really bother me.  The stuff with the cops - the cops as often as not are not on top of things in older films, Hitchcock's films included.  The police were more disliked by the general public in this whole time period which is why murder mysteries are always being investigated by private detectives or newspaper reporters.  In this film the Cop with the Crush is a bit of a deus ex machina  of course but I can see that otherwise this film couldn't possibly have a happy ending.  As for Charlie's reluctance to turn her favorite uncle in - that's one of the plot elements I like the best.  Even though she KNOWS better, she still loves him and a part of her wants to believe he's still a good guy.  Emotionally that seems very true to me - the same way women will keep returning to a man who beats the shit out of them, or children to parents who abuse them.

1 hour ago, Crisopera said:

I really love Shadow of a Doubt - and it's a crime that Joseph Cotten wasn't nominated for an Oscar - the scene at the dinner table is genuinely terrifying.  "They're human beings!"  "Are they?"  I must say, I've never noticed the problems mentioned above.  I love the fact that he filmed it on location in Santa Rosa, the humanity of its characters, and that it's so solidly grounded in its middle-class milieu.

Yes, I love this aspect of it too - discovering horror in a decidedly non-Gothic setting -  and Cotten's Uncle Charlie is another villain I could have picked.  Shadow of a Doubt is Mr Rat's favorite Hitchcock.  A movie that has (to me) a similar theme of discovering that someone you loved and thought you knew is actually a monster is  The Third Man, also of course with Joseph Cotten, reunited with his Mercury Theatre pal Orson Welles - Harry Lime is also one of the greatest movie villains ever and one I also thought of choosing.

Edited December 16, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[Crisopera]

ratgirlagogo (may I call you rat?) - I had never thought of that linkage between Shadow of a Doubt and The Third Man (another great film).  What an interesting idea!

[ratgirlagogo]

10 minutes ago, Crisopera said:

ratgirlagogo (may I call you rat?)

Any time.

[Padma]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Caught up with Letter to Three Wives last night. Watched it via AppleTV/iTunes, impelled by the discussion among @Rinaldo, @Crisopera, and @SeanC. Thank you--I got a lot out of re-reading it this morning.

There was one rather important element that initially confused us, which, since it's the climax of the entire movie, I'll hide:

  Hide contents

When Paul Douglas "confesses" to Jeanne Crain that he was the one who took off with Addie Ross (only to return), we just couldn't tell if he was telling the truth. It seemed believable! (As it should; after all, if Paul Douglas can't convince the audience that it's true, he could never convince Jeanne Crain.) The main reason we were inclined to believe him was that if he was lying, he was performing a sadistic, horrible cruelty to Jeanne Crain in the disguise of compassion! Pretty much gas-lighting her! What possible good could it do to lie to her when she is going to discover the truth soon enough anyway? And then, if she was foolish enough to believe his lie, she'd think she was really going crazy! How does that help her? All in the name of supposedly giving her one good night's sleep? Even worse, in retrospect it seemed like he was using Jeanne Crain so that he could play his game with Linda Darnell to find out if she really loved him. And yet, when the tensions dissolve between him and Darnell, we felt great, as we were meant to, and had to admit that we essentially colluded with him in his sadistic lie (cloaked as kindness) to Jeanne Crain. After all, we didn't give a fig about Jeanne Crain, and we cared a lot about Paul Douglas and Linda Darnell. So Mankiewicz essentially makes the audience the accomplice in the cruelty.

Complicated!

Milburn, I saw it exactly that way, too, so much so that I read around (inc. differences between book and film--which were huge) to see if I could resolve it.  I wanted Paul Douglas to be telling the truth, and I thought he was, but some of the conversation gave me doubts. 

For example Ann and Kirk seemed very touched that he'd told her that "That was so nice of you" (or something) rather than shocked that he'd run off with Addie and curious about what had happened after that. No one seemed to care! So that was weird and made me wonder if she was really with Brad after all.

The rest of it made sense--him telling Linda that "you've heard me say it, you can get your divorce now" and getting a "happy ending" (which was widely concluded to be true of the film, not the book). It wouldn't be a happy ending if he was lying.

Jeanne Crain's reaction was weird, too. SHE didn't seem to believe him either--so why would we?

On the other hand, when Kirk (?) or someone said, "She would have found out in the morning anyway" I took that to mean that Brad really WAS coming home and Paul was the one who had left.  But it wasn't really all that clear--especially since Jeanne didn't seem to believe him either.

Reading around, I was glad to know it -was- indeed intended as a happy ending for all, but it played out for me a little too ambiguously, too.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

OK, thanks for the clarification. I took it for a quote because I've read similar things elsewhere (but not yet here). 

Understood. But you probably "know" me enough by now to know I tend to reach my own conclusions and, when speaking for myself, really am speaking for myself rather than repeating any received wisdom. :) In this case, I knew nothing about what others have said regarding the ending; didn't even know that it was a bone of contention among some others. Only knew that I, Milburn Stone, found it ambiguous. In almost a "Lady or the Tiger" way--i.e., I concluded that Mankiewicz meant us not to be completely sure. 

While Mankiewicz pere apparently believed he was absolutely clear, I find some validation in your citing an authority as close to the source as Mankiewicz fils finding the ending ambiguous/confusing. Even your direct quote of the Paul Douglas line (which I appreciate) can be taken to mean the complete opposite of what Mankiewicz apparently intended. (A fact which is actually at the root of the ambiguity.) I.e.,

Spoiler

"Deborah would have found out in the morning anyway that I'm lying and her no-good husband really was the one who ran off with Addie."

Edited December 16, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Milburn Stone]

Can't seem to edit my post to add the following, so I'll add it here: Thanks, @Padma, for chiming in. Good to have company here. :)

[Rinaldo]

40 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

As for Charlie's reluctance to turn her favorite uncle in - that's one of the plot elements I like the best.  Even though she KNOWS better, she still loves him and a part of her wants to believe he's still a good guy.  Emotionally that seems very true to me - the same way women will keep returning to a man who beats the shit out of them, or children to parents who abuse them.

Even as I typed my problems with this scene, I knew that my reaction was more complex than the space I was giving it allowed, because of exactly the reason you state. Yes, of course there is behavior like that, and I could recognize it. But I guess I still didn't feel that such nuances were given time or space to register here, despite Wright's lovely performance overall; it just seemed a plot convenience.

Quote

Yes, I love this aspect of it too [the family dinner in Shadow of a Doubt] - discovering horror in a decidedly non-Gothic setting

As I'm the one who's been grumpy about problems around the edges of this movie, I want to offer enthusiastic agreement with this notion. That dinner-table scene, and the presence of a horrible character in such a mundane familiar setting, is masterful and definitely creepy. It's rare (someone once noted) that an acting performance is the most unforgettable thing about a Hitchcock movie, but it's true of Robert Walker in Strangers on a Train, and it's true of Joseph Cotten (and Teresa Wright) here.

 @Milburn Stone, I guess I'd better withdraw from this particular conversation. I'm just shaking my head in bafflement. (If that sentence can be taken two ways, what is the word "anyway" doing in there? But there... that's what I said I wouldn't do. Over and out.)

Edited December 16, 2016 by Rinaldo

[Padma]

51 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

...Yes, I love this aspect of it too - discovering horror in a decidedly non-Gothic setting -  and Cotten's Uncle Charlie is another villain I could have picked.  Shadow of a Doubt is Mr Rat's favorite Hitchcock.  A movie that has (to me) a similar theme of discovering that someone you loved and thought you knew is actually a monster is  The Third Man, also of course with Joseph Cotten, reunited with his Mercury Theatre pal Orson Welles - Harry Lime is also one of the greatest movie villains ever and one I also thought of choosing.

Ah, The Third Man!  There were so many great possibilities for the pre-1975 villains that I decided to just limit myself to women (still difficult enough). But if I'd included everyone, Harry Lime/Welles would have definitely made the cut.  That's very interesting to find that common theme in both films. Like Crisopera, I'd never thought of that before. Such a great film.  

Edited December 16, 2016 by Padma

[Milburn Stone]

11 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

 @Milburn Stone, I guess I'd better withdraw from this particular conversation. I'm just shaking my head in bafflement. (If that sentence can be taken two ways, what is the word "anyway" doing in there? But there... that's what I said I wouldn't do. Over and out.)

@Rinaldo, you know how much I respect you, so I'll respect your wish to withdraw. I do want to answer the question of why the "anyway" doesn't solve anything. It means (or can mean)

Spoiler

"Anyway, the kid will have one decent night's sleep tonight, even though reality will rear its ugly head in the morning."

[Bastet]

21 hours ago, bluepiano said:

I love Thelma Ritter!!

I do, too.  I re-watched Rear Window semi-recently, and once again found myself wishing the Grace Kelly character had been skipped entirely in favor of more time with Stella.  The interaction between Stella and Jeff is one of my favorite aspects of the film.

[Padma]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I do, too.  I re-watched Rear Window semi-recently, and once again found myself wishing the Grace Kelly character had been skipped entirely in favor of more time with Stella.  The interaction between Stella and Jeff is one of my favorite aspects of the film.

"5 Favorite Thelma Ritter Movies" would be a tough category. There are so many. It irks me to see her unbilled on "A Letter to Three Wives".  (On a minor note, I was intrigued that her character called her rich powerful boss, "Porter", rather than Mr. Hollingsway and how she conveyed being the equal (or better) of anyone).

[voiceover]

12 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

 I am really enjoying these top 5 lists.  Even if I don't participate (normally because I show up too late), I still go back and read them and it's always fascinating to me.  And as you said, it certainly whets the appetite for some of the films.

Psychoticstate -- or may I call you "Psycho?" -- I hope you'll jump in anytime.  And that goes for the rest of you!  January Fives are going begging...

[Milburn Stone]

As a result of A Letter to Three Wives, we're now staging a Linda Darnell Festival in our house. Last night's viewing was Preston Sturges' Unfaithfully Yours. Which, despite "knowing" all my adult life was a great movie, I'd never seen. It really was a great movie. Somehow I'd had the prejudice that Sturges at Fox could not be as good as Sturges at Paramount, but, at least in the case of this film, you get pure full-strength Sturges. I'd expected good, with an uncustomary touch of the highbrow. What it is, is hilarious.

[Rinaldo]

Unfaithfully Yours is just marvelous. (Extra-delightful for a music professor like me.) Rex Harrison is at his absolute peak as the conductor.

At first viewing I was thrown off that the very end fades out with romantic ardor rather than wit. But on further acquaintance with his work I've just come to accept that that, too, is part of Sturges.

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

At first viewing I was thrown off that the very end fades out with romantic ardor rather than wit. But on further acquaintance with his work I've just come to accept that that, too, is part of Sturges.

It comes out, too, in the generosity he displays to some of his characters. When you first meet the Edgar Kennedy detective character, you think he's going to be some kind of mix of buffoon and jerk. And then you start loving him as a human being and wish him all the happiness in the world, along with his tailor friend.

I shared your expectation about the fadeout. I was sure that embrace

Spoiler

was going to end with a sly over-the-shoulder wink from Linda Darnell to the German personal assistant character. I think I would have gotten goosebumps if that had actually happened! Maybe the Code wouldn't have permitted unpunished adultery--but the subversion of the Code is exactly what would have given me goosebumps, and I thought Sturges, if anyone, might just be the guy to bring it off. A nice ending nonetheless.

(BTW, I hate having to put stuff about a 70-year old movie between spoiler tags, but I guess that's the rule, and maybe it will enhance someone else's enjoyment not to know too much. Was on the fence about doing it this time.)

[Padma]

19 hours ago, voiceover said:

Psychoticstate -- or may I call you "Psycho?" -- I hope you'll jump in anytime.  And that goes for the rest of you!  January Fives are going begging...

My slot is available for January!  (2 Jan)  I was going to do a critical/satirical/cynical sort of a list, but looking at the dates, I realized I'm not actually cynical enough to want to do it for New Year.

Top-Five Poster of the Week:

1 (21 Nov). @voiceover (Favorite films before 1980)

2 (28 Nov). @Crisopera (Favorite Barbara Stanwyck films)

3 (5 Dec). @Rinaldo (Favorite pre-1949 musical films)

4 (12 Dec). @Sharpie66 (Favorite villains in pre-1950 films)

5 (19 Dec). @ratgirlagogo (Favorite jungle-girl films)

6 (26 Dec). @Milburn Stone (Films Only I Like)

7 (2 Jan).

8 (9 Jan).

[SeanC]

With Born Yesterday, I've now seen the entire 1950 Best Actress lineup -- perhaps fittingly, the winner last.  A more innocent time, when we're assured by the people who bribe congressmen that corrupt members of Congress are an extreme rarity.  The reverential scene of Billie looking at the text of the Constitution concludes with her quoting from the Second Amendment, which, in this day of rabid disputation over gun control, I'm pretty confident would not happen if the film was made today.

Elsewhere, Libeled Lady is a William Powell/Myrna Loy team-up from outside the Thin Man series.  It's fun, though it commits the same sin as the recently-aired The Major and the Minor:  when, as is often the case in screwball comedies, your central romance involves a big charade perpetrated by one character on another, you actually have to address the end of the charade.  Glossing over it is especially egregious in Libeled Lady since Powell's character originally undertook the charade specifically to subvert Loy's character's interests, as opposed to the more typical case where a character in disguise bungles into a romantic entanglement through contrivances.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Elsewhere, Libeled Lady is a William Powell/Myrna Loy team-up from outside the Thin Man series.  It's fun, though it commits the same sin as the recently-aired The Major and the Minor:  when, as is often the case in screwball comedies, your central romance involves a big charade perpetrated by one character on another, you actually have to address the end of the charade.  Glossing over it is especially egregious in Libeled Lady since Powell's character originally undertook the charade specifically to subvert Loy's character's interests, as opposed to the more typical case where a character in disguise bungles into a romantic entanglement through contrivances.

It is, indeed, a pretty bit matzo ball to be swallowed off-screen, but the flip side is that I love how Connie obviously listened to Bill explain that his interaction with her started out as part of a scheme, but he came to know her and love her on his own, and thus the current relationship is real, and understood this to be true and continued forward with him, rather than embarking on some tedious "How dare you?!" escapade before getting back to the inevitable.  They're both smart, and have both had each others' numbers since day one -- yet because there were mixed motives almost from jump, that means they understand there is now something completely different going on than what it seemed at the beginning and don't need to hash it out endlessly.  So a happy medium may have meant for an even better film, certainly, but it works for me stupendously as is.

[Charlie Baker]

All the Powell/Loy pairings have their delights; Libeled Lady is my favorite non-Thin Man film of the group.

I adore Ms. Loy and have said here before I would watch her in anything, e.g., The Squall, Parnell.  But I certainly haven't seen her entire filmography.  From Friday's showings, I caught up with Lucky Night, which tries to be a screwball rom com with some social satire and some moments of emotional depth.  It doesn't make it, though I can't get fully behind Leonard Maltin's terming it "an incoherent, interminable mess". Ms. Loy is paired with Robert Taylor, who gives a relaxed, very charming comic performance, and as Ms. Loy terms him "a very attractive man" and a couple minor characters nickname him "Handsome"--indeed he is quite beautiful.  They take this uneasy script and keep you watching. 

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

All the Powell/Loy pairings have their delights; Libeled Lady is my favorite non-Thin Man film of the group.

Mine as well.  I do wonder if it would have been even better had Clark Gable been cast (instead of Spencer Tracy) as Haggerty as originally intended, since he has such wonderful chemistry with both Jean Harlow and Myrna Loy and the film's one weak spot for me is the relationship between Haggerty and Gladys, but I truly adore it as is.  Loy/Powell films are comfort viewing to me, and this is one I watch often.

 

2 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

I adore Ms. Loy and have said here before I would watch her in anything, e.g., The Squall, Parnell.  But I certainly haven't seen her entire filmography.  From Friday's showings, I caught up with Lucky Night, which tries to be a screwball rom com with some social satire and some moments of emotional depth.  It doesn't make it, though I can't get fully behind Leonard Maltin's terming it "an incoherent, interminable mess". Ms. Loy is paired with Robert Taylor, who gives a relaxed, very charming comic performance, and as Ms. Loy terms him "a very attractive man" and a couple minor characters nickname him "Handsome"--indeed he is quite beautiful.  They take this uneasy script and keep you watching. 

We are of the same mind on Myrna Loy in general, and on Lucky Night as well.  I'd seen it before, and had Friday's airing on as background noise as I puttered around the house.  It has some great moments, but doesn't add up to a great - or even good - film.  But, I too, disagree with Maltin's take on it.  It's charming enough to be a decent way to spend 90 minutes (not even that, probably).

[prican58]

Say goodnight, Zsa Zsa. The Gabor Ladies are together again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/movies/zsa-zsa-gabor-often-married-actress-known-for-glamour-dies.html

Edited December 19, 2016 by prican58

[Rinaldo]

Catching a bit of Oliver! on tonight's airing (the DVD was one of the first I bought, so I don't mind leaving it when they finish "Consider Yourself" this time). I feel that I did right to list it here recently. What a beautiful piece of moviemaking. And now that I'm better acquainted with Carol Reed's overall career, I can feel all the happier that he had one more commercial success near the end of his career.

And I wouldn't bring this up in my previous overall appreciation, but one aspect of the movie is especially gratifying to my research speciality (orchestration for the theater): John Green's marvelous orchestrations. No movie has ever had better ones, and he himself had an interesting career trajectory: pop songwriter ("Body and Soul"), swing bandleader, composer of film scores (Raintree County), and arranger for film musicals like this one. This was the last of those, and his best.

[SeanC]

I think Oliver! is pretty shallow overall, but Shani Wallis is the best cinematic Nancy that I've seen.

[voiceover]

I’m interrupting our regularly-scheduled Fives (with the kind permission of ratgirlagogo, who has deferred til January) to bring what I should have thought to include in the first place: "Holiday Favorites Five".

5. Our Vines Have Tender Grapes (1945): A little Midwestern town; Margaret O’Brien at her most affecting; and a shockingly endearing turn by tough guy Edward G Robinson as a loving father & family man.  I discovered this one a few years ago and can only be sorry for all the years I didn’t know it, and this one —

4. Remember the Night (1940): Also a recent arrival to my list of faves.  I wrote about it earlier, during crisopera’s Stanwyck week.  More sharply written than any other holiday film.  And funny! Love Fred MacMurray’s crack about his life being just a big pile o’ “whoopee!”  I know what you mean, Fred.

3.  It’s a Wonderful Life (1946): Jimmy Stewart’s best performance, and I don’t think it’s even close.  What emotion DIDN’T he take us through, and make us believe in the goofiness, the wretchedness, the anger, the redemption?  Even after all all these years, and all the screenings, I still choke up at Harry’s “To my big brother George: the Richest Man in Town!”  The least likely character speaking the greatest truth.

2.  Little Women (1933):  Not essentially a Christmas film, but it opens right before, and the holiday spirit is strong in the classic coming-of-age tale of four sisters: their triumphs & tragedies, their loves & losses.  Alcott's story is such a great one that (just as in Pride & Prejudice) while the first is my favorite, I’m fond of the 1949 and 1994 versions, too.

1. Scrooge, or A Christmas Carol (1951): It opened in England under the first title, then made its way across the pond rechristened.  It has the only Tiny Tim I find appealing.  And Alastair Sim's Ebenezer is first on my list (beating out even Claude Rains’s Capt Renault) for Oscar’s Biggest Screw-up.  It’s practically a class in Best Actor — fitting, because Sim left his post as schoolmaster to take the part.  His grouch is funnier than anyone else around him, and his transformation a thing of beauty inside & out.  He’s actually handsome on Christmas morning!  His wordless shrug of apology to Fred’s wife (before he mouths the actual words): one of my all-time cinematic moments.

[Padma]

Great choices, voiceover, at least for the four I know. I've never seen (or heard of "Our Vines Have Tender Grapes" but will look out for it now. I enjoy Robinson when he's not a tough guy--i.e. Paul Ehrlich.)  There are so many wonderful holiday films of different moods and themes, but mine are all light and mainly old.  They're five favorites that I can watch again and again. In no particular order:

Holiday Inn -- Fred and Bing, 1942  (Irving Berlin)

Going My Way -- Barry Fitzgerald and Bing,  1944  (Jimmy van Heusen & Johnny Burke)

The Bishop's Wife -- an unusual love triangle including an angel (Grant), a bishop (Niven) and as his wife (Loretta Young) 1947

White Christmas -- Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye, Rosemary Clooney and Vera Ellen -- It might seem corny and dated to viewers today, but I still love it,  1954  (Irving Berlin)

A Christmas Carol -- 1984.  The Alistair Sim one is often called the best and the 1951 film is pretty faithful to Dickens. No question that Sim is wonderful as Scrooge, before and after.  But, I'm a big George C. Scott fan and enjoy seeing it in color--and I like the script and acting in this one, too. It's directed by Clive Donner who edited Sim's Scrooge/A Christmas Carol.  Also with David Warner (Bob Cratchit) and as his wife, Susannah York.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Padma

[Bastet]

Quote

I’m interrupting our regularly-scheduled Fives (with the kind permission of ratgirlagogo, who has deferred til January) to bring what I should have thought to include in the first place: "Holiday Favorites Five".

From someone who'd rather stare at the wall for two hours than watch It's a Wonderful Life (and a few other perennial favorites), my Five Holiday Favorites (which I'm assuming to mean films set at Christmas):

- The Thin Man

- Monty Python's Life of Brian

- Mixed Nuts

- The Apartment

- Better Off Dead

[Milburn Stone]

8 hours ago, voiceover said:

1. Scrooge, or A Christmas Carol (1951): It opened in England under the first title, then made its way across the pond rechristened.  It has the only Tiny Tim I find appealing.  And Alastair Sim's Ebenezer is first on my list (beating out even Claude Rains’s Capt Renault) for Oscar’s Biggest Screw-up.  It’s practically a class in Best Actor — fitting, because Sim left his post as schoolmaster to take the part.  His grouch is funnier than anyone else around him, and his transformation a thing of beauty inside & out.  He’s actually handsome on Christmas morning!  His wordless shrug of apology to Fred’s wife (before he mouths the actual words): one of my all-time cinematic moments.

This could be an unpopular opinion (I don't know), but Alastair Sim creeps me out in every role I've ever seen him do. Not sure why. But I can always see him "acting"--I never believe him as a human being for a second--and while other actors can be actory and hammy, this is a different kind of actoriness. It's a kind that actually scares me; like if I encountered one of his characters in real life, sirens would be going off in my head to warn me "stay away--this man is false--he has to power to charm but don't believe a word he says--he may kill you!"

[Crisopera]

Milburn Stone - I personally love Alastair Sim, but I can see what you mean.  Have you ever seen Green for Danger (1947)?  It may change your mind.  Sim plays a detective investigating a murder in a  hospital.  Wonderful movie, and Sim is very endearing.

 

PS - Would anyone mind if I took over the January 2 slot in the Top Five list?  I'd like to do Top Five Favorite Obscure Movies (which is not exactly the same as Milburn Stone's list on December 26).  These would be something like a little-known movie of your favorite director or actor (i.e., Remember the Night - mentioned several times above, but still  not as well known as other Stanwyck/MacMurray collaborations, possibly because the director, Mitchell Leisen, is still not as well-known as he should be), or an obscure entry in a genre (i.e., California, an entertaining 1947 western with Stanwyck and Ray Milland, directed by John Farrow).

So - may I?  ( I promise they won't all star Stanwyck!)

Edited December 19, 2016 by Crisopera

[Rinaldo]

Five Holiday Favorites?

I'm going to have trouble with this one. I'm not really a follower of movies set around Christmastime. I'll watch It's a Wonderful Life or Miracle on 34th Street if someone in the family tunes in partway through, but I don't lose my mind over them. I like White Christmas and Meet Me in St. Louis OK, but it seems false to put them (let alone even milder "like"s like Elf) on a list of favorites. So I think it'll end up being just four, of which two were made for TV (and one isn't "filmed" strictly speaking):

The Nutcracker. The video production first seen on PBS, staged by Mikhail Baryshnikov for himself and Gelsey Kirkland. This is one of the child-free Nutcracker versions, in which adult dancers play the children in the opening Christmas party and then go on to become the Nutcracker Prince and the Sugar Plum Fairy. I adore Tchaikovsky's ballet, and I always enjoy seeing this.

A Christmas Story. It's a corny, obvious choice, but I do like it very much, as does my whole family. We recognize our Midwestern suburban roots in it, I had happened to read the Jean Shepherd book a few years before, and it's a pleasure to see the whole episodic narrative so warmly realized.

A Christmas Carol. I too opt for the (made for TV) George C. Scott version. Not just for his splendid performance, but I think this one has the best supporting cast: Edward Woodward as Christmas Present, Frank Finlay as Marley, Lucy Gutteridge as Belle, Susannah York and David Warner as the Cratchits, and Roger Rees as Fred. This is the one for me.

The Shop Around the Corner. No explanation needed.

[Crisopera]

I'm in the same category as Rinaldo - I'm not really a holiday movie maven.  So, almost all of mine have mostly already been mentioned:

Remember the Night - But of course!

The Shop Around the Corner - Possibly the most charming movie ever made

Meet Me in St. Louis  - Beautiful

The Thin Man  - Just perfect

Scrooged - Hilarious

Edited December 19, 2016 by Crisopera

[Rinaldo]

36 minutes ago, Crisopera said:

I personally love Alastair Sim, but I can see what you mean. 

One of my happiest purchases, after I acquired my new A/V setup with all-region all-format disc player, was a British Alastair Sim DVD collection. It includes three classic comedies I'd been vainly trying to see for decades: The Green Man, Folly To Be Wise, and Laughter in Paradise. It doesn't include Green for Danger, but I'd seen that one, courtesy of TCM -- the Christianna Brand book on which it's based is considered one of the classics of the British golden age of the "fair play" mystery (a bit of a one-off, compared to the long series provided by the others of that era: Christie, Sayers, Allingham, Carr).

[Milburn Stone]

31 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

A Christmas Story. It's a corny, obvious choice, but I do like it very much, as does my whole family. We recognize our Midwestern suburban roots in it, I had happened to read the Jean Shepherd book a few years before, and it's a pleasure to see the whole episodic narrative so warmly realized.

I, too, love how it captures Jean Shepherd's voice. Well of course literally, since he's the voiceover narrator, but I mean apart from that. When I went to college in Philadelphia I used to pull in his NY radio station (WOR) and listen to him hold forth every night. Spellbinding was not too strong a word for his power. Then I read some things by him. In a world of book-based movies that distort or dilute the original author's intent, A Christmas Story stands out for presenting the essence of its author full-strength, straight up, and uncut.

[voiceover]

12 hours ago, Crisopera said:

PS - Would anyone mind if I took over the January 2 slot in the Top Five list?  I'd like to do Top Five Favorite Obscure Movies...These would be something like a little-known movie of your favorite director or actor

That's ratgirlagogo's new slot, but how about Jan 9th?

[Crisopera]

January 9th it is, voiceover!

[Sharpie66]

1. A Christmas Story is the epitome of childhood for me--the longing for a certain present, the fantasies of "You'll be sorry someday, Mom!", the horror of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time ("Oh, fuuuudge, only I didn't say fudge..."), being the youngest child always tagging behind my big sister and her friends--so that is tops on my list.

2. Alistair Sim's A Christmas Carol. He is just the best Scrooge for me, both before and after his big night. I actually saw the Reginald Owen version more often, since that was the one most often shown on the local PBS station in Chicago as well as on Family Classics on WGN when I was a kid in the '70s, but Owen just never worked as Scrooge. I later enjoyed the GCS tv version, but more for the other actors, including David Warner and Roger Rees, and as a classic Dr. Who fan, I enjoy seeing Mark Strickland as the young Ebenezeer (he was the best-looking male companion to the Doctor). 

3. Holiday Inn. Crosby and Astaire are both so good here! I love their rivalry, and Crosby's singing is sublime (although the blackface number is just horrendous). My fave number is Astaire's July Fourth firecrackers dance--so fantastic!!

4. Going My Way. Crosby again, this time with the delightful Barry Fitzgerald, who never fails to make me cry at the end of the movie with his character's mother. "Too-Ra-Loo-Ra-Loo-Ral" was sung at my grandmother's funeral since it was her favorite song. 

5. Miracle on 34th Street. So many terrific performances here! In fact, I can't think of a missed note. From Maureen O'Hara to Edmund Gwenn, John Payne to Thelma Ritter, Gene Lockhart and William Frawley, all are fantastic. But they are all eclipsed by Natalie Wood. She just nails the skeptic who comes to believe. It's also fun seeing a younger Jack Albertson as the postal worker who wins the case!

[Padma]

Since a couple of people have mentioned "Miracle on 34th Street" (1947), I thought I'd share a little story with a  family connection with Natalie Wood.  I'm related (a few generations back) to  director Irving Pichel who discovered Natalie while he was filming "Happy Land" in Santa Rosa (1943).  She was five years old when he saw her, while filming a crowd scene of local people. She was standing with her mother, I think eating an ice cream cone (a parade scene).

Even as just a little girl among many in the crowd, she stood out (I think her mother also drew his attention to her, pushing her to talk to him). Anyway, he saw and talked with her that day, and, from what I'm told, it was like (paternal) love at first sight.  As time went on, not only was he a mentor to her, he tried to see if there was any way he could adopt her (he had three children, but as I say, he always felt like a father to her. Plus, her mother was not very pleasant, the quintessential stage mother). Somewhere in some family album there is a very adorable picture of the two of them together around the time when she was making Miracle on 34th Street (George Seaton was the director there).  Per relatives, she was very sweet, very charming, and always very dear to him from five years old onward.    

Anyway, I always think of their relationship (passed on through the years as family lore) when I see her in movies and it makes me like her  (even though I still have never been able to watch "Miracle" in a single sitting, lol).

Edited December 20, 2016 by Padma

[voiceover]

Padma, what a sweet story!!   Thanks for sharing it.

[Sharpie66]

Started cleaning off my dvr last night, and watched part of Love Me Tonight from a few weeks ago. Maurice hasn't made it to the Duke's house yet, but he has met Princess Jeannette, and the doctor has said that she needs exercise if she's not going to get married any time soon. Looking forward to seeing the rest of it tonight!

Opinion on it so far, since I had only heard of the film but had never seen it before: at first, I wasn't too sure. Maurice's song in the beginning was very stilted, not fitting in with the rest of the cacophony of the streets comfortably. I was grimacing a bit from his performance in those initial minutes, but as soon as he changed into his fancy duds at his tailor's shop, I was very happy with him. He seemed to get more comfortable in the role as the film progresses. I am also getting a bit annoyed by the wasting-away Jeannette, but I hope that she improves once she gets some lovin', since that's the implication of what she desperately needs. Also, I've never been a fan of that high-pitched soprano operetta-style voice of hers. I can never understand the lyrics of what she's singing. However, I did really enjoy the conversation/duet with the doctor.

The rest of the cast is just wonderful! The Count is hilarious in his shameless sponging off others, Myrna Loy's Countess is terrific, and I love the framing of the three ladies-in-waiting to Jeannette as Macbeth's three witches, or at least, that's how I'm seeing their little petitions for her health.

[prican58]

Chevalier is almost always the best thing in any film. Charming, simply charming (said like the very tipsy Mrs Schellhammer in Miracle on 34th Street.) 

I always thought he spoke English very well but I saw/read an interview with Angie Dickinson where she said he was very quiet IRL because he didn't speak English well. So, I don't know what's true. 

[Rinaldo]

Starting right now, Ride the High Country, my favorite Western (in fact, maybe the only Western I truly love). Veterans Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea, playing cowboys who've been doing this too long; luminous 21-year-old Marietta Hartley in her movie debut; and young yet-unknown Sam Peckinpah in charge of it all. It was made as a routine "programmer" for the lesser half of a double feature. But it certainly shines now.

[AuntiePam]

Angel Face with Jean Simmons and Robert Mitchum, 1953, directed by Otto Preminger (on the DVR from last week).  Wonderful film, with nice touches -- pauses and silences in the right places -- and believable characters.  It's #2 on my Favorite Noir list, right after Out of the Past. 

It's hard to say more without spoiling it, except that unlike many commenters at IMdB, I can totally understand Frank's (Mitchum's) actions.  He's over-confident and just trusting enough to get himself in a jam. Like most of us, he doesn't understand illogical, insane behavior. 

[Rinaldo]

Tonight seems to be another Disney evening. I missed the start, but coming in a half hour late, I immediately recognized Perri -- Disney's first (only? probably not) attempt at an animal narrative story using the kind of nature footage they'd featured in their "True-Life Adventures." I remember all the promotion it got on the Disneyland show, and was just old enough at the time to be raunchily amused at what a euphemism the gigantic choral song about "Together Time" was.

[ratgirlagogo]

So, it's Christmas favorites now.  (god this shit is exhausting.  I mean it's fun and all but it's exhausting.) Okay here's mine in as usual no order.

1)  The Muppet Christmas Carol.  You-all may laugh but this is my favorite movie version of the story by far.   Kermit as Bob Cratchit!    Statler and Waldorf as two Ghosts of Marley!  Gonzo as Charles Dickens getting needled by Rizzo the Rat!  Oh, and singing vegetables.  I like Michael Caine as Scrooge also, although I know many don't.

2)  The Shop Around the Corner.  Even with everything there is to love about this movie I think I love Frank Morgan the most.

3) Three Godfathers.  As much a redemption story as A Christmas Carol, but pretty openly Christian, in fact much more spiritual than a lot of supposedly religious films.    Sentimental and moving as three bad guys find themselves unable despite their "better" judgment to do anything but the right thing.    Oh, and did I forget to mention that it's a John Ford Western?  

For four and five I'll go with my two favorite Christmas horror films (yes Virginia there are actually a bunch of them):

4)  Christmas Evil aka You Better Watch Out.  A disturbed misfit who's never gotten over being told that Santa wasn't real suffers a psychotic break from being bullied at his job at the toy factory.  Well, everybody's going to be sorry NOW when he dresses up like Santa and starts killing people.  And does he actually ride off in the sky to the North Pole in his  van at the end of the movie, or is it just in his mind?  A sleazy classic.

5)  Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale. A rich American hires some Finnish locals to drill into Mount Kovartunturi in Finnish Lappland  - according to legend the home of Joulupukki, aka Santa Claus.  The drill hits pay dirt when they drill down to the ice cave he's frozen inside.  Turns out the ancient Finns and Lapps froze him into that mountain for very good reasons - Santa Claus is a DICK.  Hijinks ensue.  (this is a Finnish film BTW)

On 12/19/2016 at 9:51 AM, Milburn Stone said:

I, too, love how it captures Jean Shepherd's voice. Well of course literally, since he's the voiceover narrator, but I mean apart from that. When I went to college in Philadelphia I used to pull in his NY radio station (WOR) and listen to him hold forth every night. Spellbinding was not too strong a word for his power. Then I read some things by him. In a world of book-based movies that distort or dilute the original author's intent, A Christmas Story stands out for presenting the essence of its author full-strength, straight up, and uncut.

We are huge  Jean Shepherd geek-fans  Chez Rat so while we love this movie for all the reasons you give - as somebody who actually heard his storytelling on the radio I'm sure you understand why we feel so frustrated that the huge fandom for this film has never really turned into a fandom for his brilliant radio work.  That was his true metier and people like Spalding Gray and Garrison Keillor and Eric Bogosian only WISH they could do what he did, so apparently effortlessly.  But we have no Turner Classic Radio and thus - although as you say "spellbinding was not too strong a word for his power"  Jean Shepherd remains criminally underappreciated, aside from this one admittedly wonderful film.

Edited December 22, 2016 by ratgirlagogo

[voiceover]

Just watched TCM Remembers.  This year's "How did I miss this?" was Abbas Kiarostami, an Iranian writer/director whose best work featured The Hero discovering the best of himself via a journey.

And my favorite of his was The White Balloon...the little girl at the center of it all made my dad laugh, and look at me as if he were seeing his own darling girl again at that age.

Maybe Dad's having him over for some fesenjun.  And asking him why Taste of Cherry was so...freakin'...talky.

Edited December 22, 2016 by voiceover

[Rinaldo]

19 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

1)  The Muppet Christmas Carol.  You-all may laugh...

Not I! I haven't in fact seen that version (I will, I promise). But I'm certainly no snob about differently cast retellings of this story: I very much like Mickey's Christmas Carol, and I absolutely love Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol. In fact the latter may be my second favorite version (after the George C. Scott one).

[SeanC]

*sniff*  The best doggone dog in the West.  I hadn't seen that since I was a kid.

I caught The Letter a few days ago.  The plot's a bit too straightforward to make an especially good noir, in my opinion, though Davis is great and Wyler, of course, directs it well.

Spoiler

I'm told the very ending was added at the behest of the Breen Office, but I actually think the basic idea works, though I think it would have made more sense for Mrs. Hammond and her associate to slink off into the night rather than getting accosted by that cop.  Also, Gale Sondergaard had won an Oscar a few years earlier; she seems somewhat overqualified for a part that just involves staring ominously while in mild yellowface.

[Rinaldo]

We forumites probably know all about the early-sound movie of The Letter starring the legendary Jeanne Eagels (TCM shows it from time to time in tandem with the Davis version). But I also remember being knocked out by the 1982 telefilm starring Lee Remick. I wish there was a cable channel devoted to the movies-of-the-week that used to be made in such numbers; there's really no way to see them any more.