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Rhondinella

Aylee, Greer, Kenna, Lola: Lad-"duhs" in Waiting

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Discuss the (very) fictional counterparts to the Queen of Scots' four companions who were famously called "the Four Marys," because . . . well, they were all named Mary.

 

But, hey, Aylee, Greer, Kenna and Lola are totally great alternative 16th century names, right?

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Kenna is so self-absorbed and tone deaf, it's great.

"Hey, Lola, I see you're knocked up."
"Yeah, I'm so worried about how Mary and Francis will react."
"Eh, they'll get over it. Congrats, your future in court is assured!"
"..."

Keep on being ridiculous, Kenna.

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I think Greer's my favorite lady in waiting, and also now one of my favorite parts of the whole show. Her and the kitchen boy? Gah. I want to watch a show that's just them and Lord Pepper guy all living together. Screw her family and their needs.

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Greer is my favorite, too. I think she's most elegant and graceful of the LIW, and she and Leith were one of the few couples I feel really invested in. She has shared some lovely moments with Lord Pepper.

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I've only watched five episodes so far, when I was trying to stay awake the other morning.

 

I was just saying in another forum, that I think I'm just too old for CW shows (now). I think that three of the ladies-in-waiting are great, but the way they seem to want viewers to root for Kenna and the King... I don't understand that. Like they've each met their "true love".

 

I wondered where I I'd seen Lola before. I had to google.

 

Greer is my favourite. She's lovely, and that scene in the kitchen was so sweet. I knew the white mark on the face of the man she falls in love with, would be flour on his cheek. :)

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they seem to want viewers to root for Kenna and the King

 

I can't speak to what the EPs wanted about Kenna and Henri but, in real life, he really did have a long term mistress in Diane (who was actually 20 years OLDER than him) and had a few illegitimate children with other short-term mistresses and never loved Catherine.  So, whatever the motivations of the EPs, Henri really did run around on Catherine from the moment they married (while she, like so many wives before and after, had to suck it up).

 

I know so many have commented on this but I want to reiterate how much I HATE the names chosen for the ladies in waiting.  I get it, no show will ever have supporting characters have the same name as the lead, much less four of them, but they clearly didn't even try.  Lola, Aylee, Kenna and Greer, really?  THAT'S the best this brain trust could come up with for alternatives for the Four Marys?  Not Anne, Jane, Margaret, Sarah, Rachel, Ruth, just to name a few?  I get that Elizabeth and Catherine would be off the table for the same reasons Mary was, but any of those six names I just typed would have worked.  They didn't need to go modern day with the names to try and relate to their intended audience.  Of course, this show routinely puts them in modern prom dresses so it's not exactly surprising but it still irritates.  It does amuse me that the show clearly hated not being able to change Mary Tudor's name, hence always referring to her that way, so I'm glad history overruled them (I can only imagine the horror they'd have come up with if given the go ahead).

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For me I the only one I can find slightly acceptable is "Lola" because I assume it's a diminutive for "Charlotte" (not the most common use of Lola; according to thinkbabynames.com it's most commonly used for Dolores and occasionally for Louise). Of course, the idea of "Lady Lola" is laughably absurd, but these girls were in fact historically great friends and it's not impossible to believe they had nicknames for each other, especially since the four Marys were commonly referred to by their last names, which they may have seen as clunky and/or unfeminine.

 

Heh -- wouldn't it be hysterical if it came out that all four girls on the show were actually baptized as Mary, and that all their names were nicknames that deliberately sounded more Scottish? I believe the historical figures did all speak Scots to each other even at French court. My new headcanon for the show is that they chose those as nicknames to annoy Catherine, who hated reminders that she wasn't the only queen in the house.

 

And while I'm there, thinkbabynames lists the definition of "Kenna" as "fire-born; good-looking" and says the name is of American origin, a feminine of Kenneth, nad that name is in fact Irish! (Though the site says it's also Gaelic, but doesn't say whether it's Irish-Gaelic or Scottish-Gaelic.)

 

"Greer" is in fact Scottish, not surprisingly used for a last name and a boy's name as well. Apparently it's a variant of Gregory ("watchful, vigilant").

 

"Aylee" (when spelled Ailee, with an i) is a Scottish variation of Eileen. Looks like it means "bird".

 

None of these names sound time appropriate to me, I have to say. Then again I don't remember seeing much in the way of Sarah, Ruth, or Rachel when reading about the Tudor period. It looks to me like they were wall-to-wall Elizabeths, Annes, Janes, Katherines and Marys, with a few Margarets.

Edited by PinkRibbons

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Oh, definitely. I got the Sarah, Ruth, and Rachel from the Bible and the show focuses on the Catholicism so strongly that it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.  I think that Anne, Katherine, Jane, Elizabeth, and Margaret are the most logical alternative names to choose from since they didn't want to go with Mary for the ladies.  It was Margaret Tudor who married the Scottish king, right?  So having one of the ladies named after her would make sense.  Anne and Jane were popular names back then too, so they would make lots of sense.  IF they wanted these names but also wanted them to be believable they should have made them last names like in real life.  Greer is an actual last name like you said, Kenna could be from MacKenna, and I'd dump Lola (no matter where it comes from it will always make me think of strippers and I keep waiting for the character to do a lap dance) and use Lana (if they really need an L name) and have it be a nickname for Langton, Lachlan, or some other Scottish L name.  Or, and here's the craziest idea of them all (for the EPs): keep the real names!  The last names were: Beaton, Seton, Fleming, and Livingston.  Have everyone at court call them by those last names to differentiate from the queen and then no need to worry about the first name.  There are so many ways they could have come up with alternate names that didn't result in what we have. 

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I wish they'd kept them as "The Marys". if you read enough history you know everybody usually has one of three names anyway. During this period it was Catherine, Anne, Mary, James, Henry, and Thomas. You get a few other popular ones too (like Francis and Elizabeth) but I swear it seems like 75% of everybody at any court had one of those 6 names. Go ahead and give them nicknames, but keep them the Marys. Heck rename the show The Marys for all I care. Of course that's because I sometimes get sick of Mary and Francis and wish this show was more of a historic Pretty Little Liars.

Edited by FozzyBear

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I guess because she does want to stay with her son, if she left like that she'd likely never see him again. And she doesn't want to leave her friends and her Queen and everything else she knows, now that she has no one else left as her family disowned her and we don't know if she has enough pull in her own right to have anyone she previously knew in Scotland be an ally.

 

Yes she could sail away to another foreign place but she'd probably have to change her name as "Lady Lola mother of the King of France's 1st bastard" is clearly gossip over Europe and that just gets things even messier. She'd be just as vulnerable in another place (in different ways) except without those who are still on her side to protect her. 

 

And I think "independent young woman of means" is way more precarious than it might be a few centuries later. Certainly she'd bring out the Narcisses's wherever she went. 

 

She might be better off retiring quietly for a while until the height of the scandal blows over but Mary isn't letting her do that. She should certainly make some discreet investments in case she ever needs to flee with her son. 

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It isn't remotely easy or simple for a woman to just give up her child. I still think Francis was in the wrong here, that they should have let people think Julian was the father while Francis was named Godparent. Sure the kid wouldn't have titles and land, but he also wouldn't be at risk as a possible pretender to the throne, and his mother would have a far easier chance of remarrying and giving him a more normal life. Now he has to go around with "bastard" hanging around his neck.

 

(As for not returning with Francis, he said himself that he couldn't get a newborn back to the castle alive without the mother to feed him. She missed the boat (literally) to leave him with the baby and would basically have had to high-tail it ten minutes before Francis got home, if she chose to leave the baby with Francis. Meanwhile he country was devastated by plague and she hardly had an easy escape route.)

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actually sympathized a lot with Francis in the Season premiere. He wasn't consulted at all in Lola's plans for the child. She made up her mind to cut him out of the life of - what appears more and more to be - his only chance of becoming a father. Fair enough, she seemed to have good reasons for this - not wanting to lose her children, not wanting to complicate Mary's marriage... But then Lola makes the decision to tell Francis. Fair enough, she had a good reason then - she was dying and she needed to make sure her baby was looked after. But Lola seemed to think that once she no longer needed Francis to know about his child, he (Francis) should just conveniently forget about his child.

 

There was no consideration that Francis could be a doting father if it was his only chance because a) a lot of people would not see it as being a "real" father aka producing a "real heir" and there was no expectation that he and Lola could be a cosy Henri and Diane alternative family. I think her good reasons really were good reasons. 1) being that Mary is her Queen. She's not a French subject her actual Sovereign is extremely hurt by this, is a good friend and agrees to find alternative solutions at first.  

 

I think "probably dying" absolves most letters written in that time, even if I do agree that you then have to deal with the consequences. It wouldn't be the first time that a King as dismissed a former shag away with a bag of gold and manor for the baby, never to be seen again. It's to Francis's credit that he isn't doing that, but Lola's not entirely wrong for thinking  she should move away or there's another solution that "everyone stays at court in what everyone is assuming is another Diane/Henri/Catherine" ménage of insanity.  

 

 

 

Lola's idea of passing off the boy as Julian's was wrong even before she realized she was married to an impostor. Now passing off a boy as the son of a man that she, Lola, never even met was just horrible. Bringing up this boy to live this lie, when he had a real father that he could have a relationship with, would have been even worse. The only person who would have benefited from this scheme was Lola. By giving his son a title, Francis was making sure that he did not grow up as stigmatized as Bash did.

 

Actually it would also have benefitted her friend and Queen Mary, who is now baring the humiliation of all of Europe thinking she is the reason there is no heir to France yet. It protects the Baby from the real stigma of Bastardy. Yes Kings got more leeway with this than anyone else, but even with a title its not an easy life compared to "heir to a minor noble's estate with the patronage of the King and Queen." Especially if Mary and Francis don't have a son he's a target for rebellion even if it doesn't want it.

 

 

 

But in the end, it seems like Lola wanted to keep her child and her freedom and turned around and acted shocked that she wasn't allowed to get away with everything she wanted at everyone else's expense

 

In the end neither she nor Francis were prepared for this. Lola tried almost everything but telling Francis and giving up "freedom" and it didn't work partly. It Francis's fault that he wanted to acknowledge the baby after he became "real" to him. I don't think either of them want to "get away with anything at others expense". It's a shitty situation and so far they are 75% being really pro active and trying to make this work with each other despite the awkwardness and understandable feelings.

 

Kenna's good at talking the talk, but if she'd been left with Henri's bastard at the end of last season I dread to think what storylines they'd have had between her Catherine and Francis.

Fatherly involvement was nothing like it was today anyway. Children were lucky to see some of their courtier fathers *and* mothers a few times a year.

Edited by Featherhat

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