S02.E16: Suicide Squad

[Lisin]

Oliver prepares for battle with his former friend Slade; Amanda recruits Diggle to stop a warlord, but he is surprised when he meets the rest of the team she has assembled.

[Carrie Ann]

I loved this Diggle-centric episode. Maybe it was just refreshing to see something different, but I would happily spend the rest of the season with ARGUS and the Suicide Squad versus Slade.

[Lisin]

I loved this one too! We even get a little Harley Quinn! Squeee!

[Monty]

I really enjoyed this episode. I've always loved the Suicide Squad concept. But I'd forgotten that Amanda Waller knows that Oliver is the Arrow, and she even told the whole ARGUS team.

[Lisin]

I had forgotten that too @Monty, and then when they were talking about it I was all confused but I guess she figured it out in season 1? I marathoned that season so I think I may have missed some small details because I was watching like 8 episodes in a day because I got hooked. 

[Carrie Ann]

Actually, based on what I've seen elsewhere, I don't think WE knew that Amanda knew Oliver. We knew she knew he was the Arrow because she mentioned it to Diggle earlier this season (something about "we know how you and Mr. Queen spend your evenings"), but she and Oliver had never interacted. This indicates that they have a history prior to his return, AND that she did something he's mad about. Yay!

Really enjoyed that episode. More Diggle. More ARGUS. Less growling and killing over the loss of a woman who never loved you (looking at you, Deathstroke).

[Lisin]

Less growling and killing over the loss of a woman who never loved you (looking at you, Deathstroke).

Ugh truth. Also I'm glad we're (hopefully) finished with Oliver sabotaging relationships to protect the women because 1) Sara can handle herself and 2) it's not going to matter anyway. I'm glad she basically said the same thing, because hey dummy, just because you break up with someone doesn't mean that the bad guy won't still use them against you, especially when he also has a history with that person and he kinda blames her for the death of "his" woman.

ALSO can someone explain how Slade has video footage of Shado? 

[Carrie Ann]

The video footage is pre-Island, so I suppose he tracked down her home/whatever remaining family she had and took it from there.

I liked that we got the "protect the wimmins" out of the way in one episode too. It's SO boring. I mean, I think protecting Thea, Laurel, and Moira makes some sense because they are completely unaware of what's happening. But Sara is at least as strong as Oliver, if not stronger. And Felicity will never be strong enough, but in my head, she has a super intense security system in that cute little townhouse of hers. And maybe has some trackers on her phone, purse, etc.

[quarks]

So I found myself rethinking about this episode in the context of realizing that this season was meant to set up specific moments in the finale, including but not limited to the Oliver/Felicity romance.

 

Here's what I said over at TWOP about "Suicide Squad" right after I first watched it:

 

Finally got a chance to catch up on the Suicide Squad episode. So not to be a complete downer, let's chat about the good things, in no particular order:

1. I learned that you can, indeed, make an alcohol free martini, even though you probably shouldn't. 

2. I learned that for some odd reason Verdant does not keep alcohol-free pina colada or daiquiri mixes or even fruit juice behind the bar.

3. I learned that AA encourages you to head to bars to face your addiction directly, about, what, three weeks after you joined AA.

4. I learned that when caught in a soap opera plot line such as this one, the best thing to do is lampshade the hell out of it while talking to the ex-boyfriend who is dating your sister.

5. I learned that yes, you can have a complete personality change within three weeks, which is encouraging.  I'm going to try to do that myself.

6. I learned that Deadshot looks really hot in a suit and that apparently I have a serious thing for eyepatches. Let us not linger on this.

7. I learned that this show is more than happy to continue wasting the Bronze Tiger guy, though it was nice of him to lend his claws for emergency GPS neck surgery removal.  Also Arsenal, who I am pretty sure is not dead. I hope he's wearing an eyepatch in his next appearance.

8. I learned that if there is one truth we can all cling to, it is that everybody on this show at one time or another has been on that evil island. Everybody. I expect Moira has a nice summer condo there and the reason Thea hates to swim is that's where she had her first swimming lessons.

9. I learned - again - that nobody in Starling City knows how to change the television channel.

10. I learned that you can go through absolute hell, die three times, be trained as an assassin, kill various people and carry a tremendous load of guilt on your shoulders, be developing new and horrible drinks at your club, know that an evil superpowered guy is hunting down you and your loved ones, and still find that your biggest worry is that your boyfriend might not be paying attention to you anymore, like, gulp. GULP. 

11.  I learned that Amanda Waller apparently believes that "under the radar" means "kill a number of wealthy people attending a charity party in a mansion with a BIG DRONE because THAT'S not at all suspicious or newsworthy," but a single drone falling on a street is like OMG MAJOR DIPLOMATIC CRISIS let's put implants in people's spines.

12. Speaking of the spines, I once again learned that the writers of this show don't know anything about anatomy.

13. I learned that you can be ALL FREAKED OUT that a neurotoxin could get out and like kill people but not worry in the slightest that BOMBING THE BUILDING that PROTECTS the neurotoxin is like, all safe, even though not a single person knows if the toxin is airborne or if if the drone will end up crushing the toxin containers just enough to release some of it.

14. I also learned that A.R.G.U.S. = not the world's best thinkers.

15. I learned that Felicity keeps hot chocolate supplies on hand. That's good to know.

16. I learned that things in the Glades are now going so well less than a year after an manmade earthquake killed people that the big controversial issue is intermural swimming.

A definite learning experience all around. Thanks, show! I think.

 

##

 

Ok, so, clearly I wasn't a big fan of the episode. I'm still not - I think it was one of the weakest episodes of the season. But it wasn't until I started relooking at how the season was built that I realized the central flaw of this episode: although it appeared to be an independent episode, in actuality, it was just setup for the finale. And seeing that answered several things that had been puzzling me about this episode.

 

For instance: why is Amanda Waller, who up until this episode had been portrayed as a relatively restrained woman - she's not ordering any drones around in Keep Your Enemies Closer, and about the worst thing she's done before this is recruit Bronze Tiger for her Suicide Squad - suddenly going into full overkill mode and actually sending a drone into an inhabited area when she has plenty of less lethal and flamboyant ways to dismantle the neurotoxin device?  So that, when she showed up in the finale ready to shoot drones into Starling City, we would believe that she's the sort of person who would shoot drones into populated areas before considering other solutions. Why is Waller commanding Deadshot and Bronze Tiger with little brain/spinal implants, when it was established in the show that these two will do anything if they are paid enough?  So that Deadshot would have a motivation to help take down Waller.

 

In the B-plot: why, given their many, many actual and potential problems, is Oliver focused on the only one that shouldn't be a problem - that if he and Sara stay together, she'll be a target for Slade? To establish that this is a real worry for him, although, as it turned out, Slade doesn't seem to have even considered Sara as one of "the woman Oliver loves" options. And to make his eventual decision to use Felicity as bait all the more meaningful. 

 

 

Why is Laurel, of all people, giving Oliver relationship advice? It was incredibly awkward, so awkward I should have realized that it was only in there to serve a larger narrative function: first, to remind viewers, as if we needed still more reminding, that yes, Laurel and Oliver have an awkward history, but are still talking to each other (giving Slade a reason to believe that Laurel is still a viable target) but also to show that the two of them have moved to a place where they can discuss his current relationship - even if that's with her sister - suggesting that yes, Laurel and Oliver have moved on, and Oliver is no longer in love with her - more setup for the finale.  Why is there all sorts of stuff about how letting people in makes you stronger? Well, it was admitting to Felicity that he had feelings - of whatever sort - that allowed Oliver to set his trap for Slade.

 

Why, in the middle of all this, is Felicity still reminding Oliver of his hero duties? Well.

 

I still think it was a weak episode, but I don't think I'll be skipping it in my eventual rewatch, as I'd originally planned. Still, if I have one wish for the third season, it's that individual episodes be allowed to be individual episodes, even if they have tidbits that hint at later plot developments.

[statsgirl]

I'm still laughing about Thea's swimming lessons on the island.  Bombing the building that protects the neurotoxin is golden.

 

I think it worked as a stand-alone episode if only because we finally got Diggle doing something other than propping furniture in the Arrow Cave but you're right about all the tie-ins to Unthinkable.  

 

On the other hand, isn't that a hopeful sign that this show isn't being written entirely by spaghetti flung at the wall?

9. I learned - again - that nobody in Starling City knows how to change the television channel.

Maybe there is only the one local station.  I see a business opportunity here for Oliver now that he's lost QC.

[formerlyfreedom]

Suicide Squad is re-running on CW tonight, Tuesday, August 5.

[MostlyC]

So I thought Shrapnel looked familiar- he was Simon on Firefly.   It took me awhile to place him.  And was that John Crichton or do my eyes deceive me?  It's like old home week on the Sci-Fi channel.

 

"Because when we talk, we tend to get divorced."  Darkly Comic Hee!

 

I like Diggle and Deadshot together- sign me up for a spin-off of those two frenemies.

 

I'd forgotten how Oliver was in meltdown mode in this episode, and I'm not sure if I like it or not.

 

[Actionmage]

Burning Bridges in Star County: Act 1- Oliver demands Alexi do something. Alexi asks for reciprocation. Oliver beats up Alexi's goons and puts a gun in Alexi's face.

    Act 2- Alexi, tired of the non-traditional Bratva captain going all  "Oh, waiter!" at him, tells Oliver that if Oliver insists on putting he and his men in danger without doing some stuff for them, their business is concluded forever. Oliver whatevs.

    Act 3- Oliver finds his only link to Bratva intelligence actually dead in the manner that Slade was killed. Zero is the number of craps given.

 

Granted, the Bratva are Very Bad People, yet Oliver couldn't possibly need information from them at a future time? Info more easily gotten thru Bratva channels than Amanda Waller or other work-arounds? It seemed very short-sighted, imo. Plus, getting the current head of the Starling City Bratva chapter killed can't endear you to the rest of the local chapter. More problems than answers. Especially after we were shown that Oliver took the possibility of being asked to hurt/kill someone in exchange for info in season 1. You could still have Oliver and Alexi work together, Alexi die by Slade and Oliver not mourn Alexi's loss, but maybe have him be a bit more savvy as to what it looks like to the Bratva locals and chain of command, maybe?

 

Diggle vs. Relative Morality, or How Black & White Make Gray, Johnny:

Act 1- Dig isn't keen on working with known murderers. He's not thrilled with Amanda Waller and her take on the world. He also has problems with his ex-wife working with them, but backs off when she asks him nicely. He understands; he was a soldier.

Act 2-  Flashback!John mourns having killed a tween in wartime, and as a result, saving a Very Bad Guy (drugs, sex trafficker, etc.)

Act 3- John vs. Deadshot; Floyd has a daughter and Lawton was willing to die as either sort of amends or actual amends. John insists on saving Lawton, the man who killed his brother by contract.

I agree with quarks that the storyline was for Floyd to have a reason to trust/side with John, but also for Lyla (our Designated Good Woman in this storyline) to side with John ultimately.

 

Now a Diggle Giggle, care of Lyla Michaels:

"You are so rigid, John!" (because I'm twelve some days)

 

In hindsight, Felicity's  almost fatalistic "If he wants to kill me, there's nothing I can do to stop it" is so very anvilicous.

On behalf of Marvel fans- no, Amanda Waller, you are most assuredly not worthy of using the codename Mockingbird. Just saying.

Lyla cleans up very nicely with her fancy duds.

Another agreement with quarks that Laurel should be anywhere but Verdant. Also, that meeting her sister at her ex's club with a bar full of alcohol would be a bad decision. Maybe meet Sara at the  restaurant or agree for Sara to meet you in your car outside the club at a particular time?

Floyd Lawton? Cleans up really nicely. My wish for a Suicide Squad series had banked, but is starting to spark again.

(The question is who to play Rick Flagg, one of the team leaders from the comics? The power trio of Flagg/Ben Turner/Floyd Lawton is there, as Flagg steps into the spot Dig holds as Good Man. anyhoo...)

 

Okay, Amanda believed Oliver's tale of killing Slade but didn't double check that ?!  After the Show went to all the trouble of telling and showing us that she's a stone bitch who'd kill a house full of innocents. Either she's a finger-in-every-pie, measure twice/cut once, generally misanthropic woman or she takes billionaire, wastrel, college drop-outs' word about dead agents. 

 

Michael Jai White is criminally underused.

 

More of Ollie throwing stones from his glass cave.

 

Why would Sara take love advice about Oliver from Laurel? That is TMI, imo, and potentially brain bleach-y, due to then having mental images of your sister and your current bed buddy. 

 

I love the relatively sane romance between John and Lyla, but the PDAs in Belle Reve aren't professional. If they are anything, John and Lyla are professional, and really just need to dial it back at Belle Reve. A quick kiss or kiss on her cheek would be fine. Or moving to a "conference room" just around the corner  would be good too. Even have the ghostly face of Amanda superimposed over them kissing in an interrogation room to signal Amanda's concern/interest (two way mirrors are used that way in cop shows.)

[statsgirl]

I can't get over Oliver's stupidity in burning his bridges with Alexei.   Considering how useful he had been in previous episode, that was really really stupid.  Are we supposed to take that as a demonstration of Oliver's blinkers now that Slade is around.  Stupidity #2 -- Amanda Waller 

 

 

 

11.  I learned that Amanda Waller apparently believes that "under the radar" means "kill a number of wealthy people attending a charity party in a mansion with a BIG DRONE because THAT'S not at all suspicious or newsworthy," but a single drone falling on a street is like OMG MAJOR DIPLOMATIC CRISIS let's put implants in people's spines.

13. I learned that you can be ALL FREAKED OUT that a neurotoxin could get out and like kill people but not worry in the slightest that BOMBING THE BUILDING that PROTECTS the neurotoxin is like, all safe, even though not a single person knows if the toxin is airborne or if if the drone will end up crushing the toxin containers just enough to release some of it.

Really, that never grows old.

 

Taking me out of the show moment:  How did Slade get all those old films of Shado?  And from China too.

 

This was the episode that really sold me on Oliver/Sara as a good longterm relationship.  It was as good as Laurel giving relationship advice was bad.

 

Overall, I didn't like it as much as I had the first time.  (Maybe because I was on Lance overload back then and anything that wasn't, was good for me.)  The best thing about it for me was that we saw play out on screen the story that Diggle had told Felicity back in 1x14 about why he was working with Oliver even though he wasn't in favour of killing. Yay, continuity.

[twoods]

Thank goodness I wasn't the only one who thought bombing a neurotoxin isn't the smartest thing- raiding the house that didn't even have a guard at the toxin would have been smarter.

I second a spin off with Diggle and Deadshot. I wonder if we will ever find out why Diggle's brother was targeted by an assassin. I wouldn't mind the slasher guy (forgot his name) in it too- I like the actor.

[Guest]

Rewatch thoughts:

 

1. Overall this wasn't the greatest episode but I'm always up for learning a little more about Diggle. 

 

2. I have no idea why I didn't recognise them the first time around but I liked that they have the same actors for Shrapnel and Ted Gaynor. Although bye bye Shrapnel, you were barely used.

 

3. Oliver's having a meltdown about Slade getting to his loved ones. Meanwhile Felicity is so chill about Slade potentially killing her. I said it before and I'll say it again. Girl has balls. 

 

4. I'm still weirded out by Laurel giving both Sara and Oliver advice about their relationship. I'm sorry but I just find it really hard to believe, not only because of their toxic/gross history but also because she was so angry about it only two episodes previously. Complete 180 much? I would have appreciated a little more struggle there instead of the eye roll worthy "Giving advice to two people I care about? Not that hard." BLEUGH. And lamp-shading the grossness of the situation does not help matters.

 

5. I love Deadshot. I have no regrets about this. 

 

6. Where did Slade get those films of Shado? 

 

7. Oliver pushing Sara away in case Slade hurts her is pretty much what is going to happen with Olicity in s3, right? Talk about repetitive. Learn your patterns, Oliver!

 

8. On that note, it's strange that Slade never considered Sara as the one Oliver loves the most. You'd actually think he would, given that Oliver saved Sara instead of Shado on the island. I know Oliver looked longingly at the picture of Laurel for the first year but with Slade seeming to know Oliver's every move, you'd think he would have known that O/S were back together again. Why not take her in the season finale? I'm really interested in this actually. 

 

9. With hindsight, Amanda Waller really loves drone strikes.

[statsgirl]

I never understood where or how Slade got the films of Shado. It's always bugged me.

 

Such a waste of Sean Mahr/Shrapnel.

 

 

7. Oliver pushing Sara away in case Slade hurts her is pretty much what is going to happen with Olicity in s3, right? Talk about repetitive. Learn your patterns, Oliver!

  I think  they already reprised that, in Unthinkable, to show that Oliver has learned this at least.  

Felicity

told Oliver that she wanted to stay and fight Slade, just as Sara had done on the island, and after first pushing her away, Oliver agrees to let fight, resulting in

Felicity helping to save both herself and the city, unlike

Sara who just got in more trouble.

.

 

8. On that note, it's strange that Slade never considered Sara as the one Oliver loves the most. You'd actually think he would, given that Oliver saved Sara instead of Shado on the island. I know Oliver looked longingly at the picture of Laurel for the first year but with Slade seeming to know Oliver's every move, you'd think he would have known that O/S were back together again. Why not take her in the season finale? I'm really interested in this actually.

 

I'm putting this down to addled thinking by the mirakuru.  Slade was fixated on Oliver being in love with Laurel, and sacrificing Shado for someone he doesn't even love (Sara) just shows how awful a person he is, and how worthy of revenge.

[Guest]

I'm putting this down to addled thinking by the mirakuru.  Slade was fixated on Oliver being in love with Laurel, and sacrificing Shado for someone he doesn't even love (Sara) just shows how awful a person he is, and how worthy of revenge.

 

I never considered that but it makes sense so I'm adding it to my head canon. 

[tv echo]

Plus - on the island, did Slade even know that Sara was Laurel's sister, that Sara was on the boat with Oliver, and that Oliver & Sara knew each other before the island?  I don't remember what Slade knew about Sara exactly while on the island.  Maybe someone else can clarify.

 

After Slade came to Starling City, he would've found out that Sara is Laurel's sister and possibly her renewed relationship with Oliver.  But, as I suggested in a previous post in another thread before, when mirakuru-influenced Slade made that promise to Oliver at the end of that fight on the boat (right before Oliver shot him in the eye with an arrow), Slade specifically mentioned Moira, Thea and Laurel as the ones he was going after.  At that time, they both thought Sara had been washed away and was dead.  When Slade came to Starling City, he was fixated on fulfilling that promise.  That's why Sara and Felicity weren't targets for him, just obstacles (until Oliver made Felicity a target with his ILY scene).  It was "I always keep my promises", not "I always keep my promises and, oh, I'm going to add Sara to that promise."

Edited September 28, 2014 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

Plus - on the island, did Slade even know that Sara was Laurel's sister, that Sara was on the boat with Oliver, and that Oliver & Sara knew each other before the island?  I don't remember what Slade knew about Sara exactly while on the island.  Maybe someone else can clarify.

Yes, Slade did know they were sisters because there was a scene he had early on island where Slade tells Oliver that Laurel is certainly not going to take him back after sleeping with her sister.

[tv echo]

216 (The Suicide Squad) – Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years on a hellish island, I have come home with only one goal-- to save my city. But to do so, I can't be the killer I once was. To honor my friend's memory, I must be someone else. I must be something else."

216 (Suicide Squad) – Diggle keeps guard over Felicity:
(Diggle is sitting in car outside Felicity's apartment building. Felicity comes out with a cup and gets in the car.)
Diggle (chuckling): "Coffee?"
Felicity: "Hot cocoa."
Diggle: "Hmm. What, no marshmallows?"
Felicity: "I'm out. What are you doing here, Dig?"
Diggle: "Just keeping an eye on things." 
Felicity: "Okay. And by things, you mean my neck. The one you think Slade Wilson's going to break in my sleep."
Diggle: "Yeah, something like that. Look, I have extra security details on Oliver's mother. Roy's keeping an eye on Thea, Sara's staying close to Laurel."
Felicity: "So I get you sitting outside of my house like that lacrosse player my freshman year of college. You know, I had a life before you and Oliver, yeah?"
Diggle: "Right. I just want to make sure you're okay, Felicity."
Felicity: "And I love you for it. But if Slade wants to kill me, he can. There's nothing you can do to stop him. So go home. Okay?" 
Diggle: "Hey. Nice jammies."

216 (Suicide Squad) - DELETED SCENE: Diggle tells Oliver that he has to go on a mission for ARGUS:
Diggle: "I know the timing couldn't be worse on this, but ARGUS - they have a chemical weapon out in the open and their target seems to be a man I had a relationship with back in the 'Stan. Looks like I'm their only way in."
Oliver: "Okay. Do you need backup?"
Diggle: "No. Your plate's already full, man. Besides, they're not sending me in alone. They're providing a team."
Oliver: "Diggle, do what you must do, but just don't get hurt doing it, okay?"
Diggle: "Alright."

216 (Suicide Squad) – Laurel gives advice to Sara on dealing with Oliver:
Laurel (reading an ad): “’Do you have previous experience in retail?’ Does shopping count?”
(Sara looks over at Oliver.)
Laurel: “Sara. I’ve seen that look before… on my face in the mirror when Ollie goes into distant mode. Hang in there. He’ll open up to you when he’s ready.”
Sara: “Yeah. You’d think so.”

216 (Suicide Squad) – Felicity seeks confirmation from Oliver that they’re still in the crime fighting business:
Felicity: "I started by tracing the donation Mr. Wilson made to Moira's campaign. All of the money was routed through a series of offshore accounts. None of which link back to a local address, so I looked into credit card transactions and car rental agreements."
Oliver: "(makes questioning noise)"
Felicity: "He's got to get around somehow, just not by rental car." 
Oliver: "Slade's former ASIS. He knows how to be a ghost."
Felicity: "Robbery in progress. 15 and Giffen.  We're still in the crime fighting business, right?"

216 (Suicide Squad) – Laurel gives advice to Oliver on dealing with Sara:
Laurel: “So. It looks like things with you and Sara are going well.”
Oliver: “I'm not sure you're the best person to talk to with all this.”
Laurel: “And why is that? Is it because of the whole 'cheating, shipwreck, drowning, not drowning, you're back, she's back' thing? Sorry. It's brutal AA honesty talking.”
Oliver: “I think I preferred it when we were all lying to each other.”
Laurel: “No, you just thought you did. I know you better than almost anyone, Ollie. I know that you think that you don't deserve to be happy, but you're wrong. You may think that by keeping her at arm's length, you're protecting her, but you're not. You're only protecting yourself.”
Oliver: “It's more complicated than that.”
Laurel: “It always is.”

216 (Suicide Squad) – Oliver goes it alone against Slade:
Felicity: “I got the address for that account number you gave me. I'll call Roy and Sara.” 
Oliver: “No. I'm not giving Slade any more targets.”
Felicity: “You can't go out there by yourself. It’s suicide.” 
Oliver: “This started with the two of us. That's how it ends.”

216 (Suicide Squad) – Oliver thanks Laurel for her advice on Sara:
(Sara kisses Oliver and then leaves, smiling, when she sees Laurel enter the nightclub.)
Laurel: “It looks like you took my advice.”
Oliver: “Thank you. Helping me with Sara, I know that that can't be easy.”
Laurel: “Helping two people I care about? There's nothing easier. I came by to take Sara to dinner. Would you care to join?”
Oliver: “I'd love to, but I need to go see an old friend.”

Edited February 14, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

216 (Suicide Squad) - DELETED SCENE: Diggle tells Oliver that he has to go on a mission for A.R.G.U.S.:

(Hermandat)

Edited April 27, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Another 216 deleted scene...

Arrow Season 2 - Harley Quinn Deleted Scene

(DazzNovaNation)