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Castle By The Numbers: The Ratings Thread!

verdana

By verdana
in Castle [V]

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Sonik Tooth

Sonik Tooth

 

 

Marc Berman 3 days ago

Hi John...I assume they care if the audience is not too pleased, which is why you often see plots quickly dropped on serialized dramas.  But "Castle," unfortunately, is an aging series.  And with age comes audience deterioration.  Given the rise in social media, what the fans are saying should certainly be taken seriously.  It is a quick report card, so to speak, if something is not working or not.  And if the was a producer on "Castle," I would get those characters back together pronto.

I don’t know. Does he watch the show? This break up doesn’t even live up to its name.

 

IMO it’s not the break up that’s the problem here but the storyline behind it. Unless one belongs to the part of the audience who only need Castle and Beckett to be together to be satisfied with the show, it’s more important to have at least a somehow coherent and convincing story they now failed to deliver twice in a row.

 

It’s also important how they are together. I believe it’s possible to make their relationship interesting to all kinds of audiences without one part questioning their togetherness and another part crying “bloody Hallmark moments” (that would be me :-) and so on.

 

The other problem are the characters themselves. I would think if the show presents itself as generally light-hearted, the characters should echo that sentiment. Not in the sense of them being funny, but likeable and strong. Which is of course subjective, and if you want to nitpick you’ll find cause in every character. But I think over the last few seasons the list of adjectives with negative connotations to describe Castle and/or Beckett has grown. The development of the characters shouldn’t leave a growing target for them as individuals or couple.

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WendyCR72
WendyCR72

I get your sentiment and admire it, but the crew of any given TV series losing jobs does go with the territory in the line of work they are in. Eventually, it will be reality regardless.

westwingfan
westwingfan

I understand your sentiment but I'm not a charity, a show is meant to be entertaining, and if the entertainment doesn't outweigh the negatives it won't hold my interest and I'll try and find something

pepper
pepper

The reason live viewership counts more is that nobody watches the commercials on their DVR. And advertising revenue is the goal of television. Money talks.Nothing old-fashioned about that - it's a per

TWP

TWP

(edited)

I wonder sometimes if the people who make this show (or Bones, whose playbook they seem to be working from) really grasp the extent to which they owe their jobs to audience nostalgia for the show they decided to stop making.

I just started watching Bones regularly, having only seen a few of the older episodes. I enjoy it for the silly cases. The couple is unconvincing, absolutely no chemistry in my mind. But I have no investment in them as a couple, so I don't care, just looking for an island in the sea of yick. The way Bones talks to her daughter is completely ludicrous. But as noise, light story and entertainment while I'm surfing the net or working on a quilt or whatever, it works. Last episode, Icabod (from Sleepy Hollow) was working eye chemistry with everyone. He could have jumped into bed with anyone in the cast, male or female, and I'd believe it, LOL.

My point is, I see Castle bringing in the same type of viewer as me with Bones for it's 2.0 rendition, those with little investment at all, just want a low-violence, entertaining story to watch. That is so rare these days. How many Nielsen boxes will be DVRing instead of watching, I don't know. Blindspot is getting too shoot-em-up for those of us tuning in solely for the tattoo mystery. NCIS LA is pretty dry, although the Densi interaction is less cringeworthy than Caskett and probably will stay that way as long as the actors are real life inlaws. I think it will stick around as CBS prioritizes the NCIS franchise. It and Castle are in toss up territory on watchability, as the ratings confirm.

So really, I don't know how much the nostalgic or the new viewers are making up the viewership. It could be that there's perfect equilibrium between the Castle-Bones, even NCISLA disaffected cross-over viewership that will keep both/all shows going for quite some time. Add to that the new show ratings that clearly haven't been pretty at all and I think Castle 2.0 might even get a Season 2.0 as the devil the network knows! .... especially if they can dump the misery of the week reminder.

Edited by TVWithPity
Chado

Chado

(edited)

Prepare yourself for terrible ratings. Castle is down .5 in HH numbers from 3 weeks ago (it's last episode) to become a series low at 4.2 early overnights.

 

It's keeping less than 50% of the audience DWTS generates, it's completely wasted for ABC right now.

 

Will post more info when it comes out

Edited by Chado
verdana

verdana

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https://www.tvmediainsights.com/newsletter/nbcs-blindspot-first-new-network-series-renewed-for-2016-17/

 

ABC topped this second Monday in November in the household overnights with its combination of “Dancing with the Stars” (#1 for the night: 8.5 rating/13 share from 8-10 p.m.) and deteriorating “Castle” (#3: 4.2/ 7 at 10 p.m.), which dipped by 33 percent from the year-ago evening. But NBC is the network to beat in adults 18-49 (and all the key demos) care of two more hours of “The Voice” (#2: 7.8/12 from 8-10 p.m.) and “Blindspot” (#2: 4.9/ 8 at 10 p.m.), which is now the first new network series to be renewed for 2016-17.

 

But how much did that have to do with viewers being put off when they realised Katic was absent? 

 

Chado

Chado

the 1/2 breakdowns

 

10:00 p.m.

ABC – Castle
Viewers: 6.83 million (#3), A18-49: 1.1/ 3 (#3)

CBS – NCIS: Los Angeles
Viewers: 8.04 million (#1), A18-49: 1.3/ 4 (#2)

NBC – Blindspot
Viewers: 8.24 million (#2), A18-49: 2.4/ 7 (#1)

——–

10:30 p.m.

ABC – Castle
Viewers: 5.65 million (#3), A18-49: 1.0/ 3 (#3)

CBS – NCIS: Los Angeles
Viewers: 7.64 million (#1), A18-49: 1.2/ 4 (#2)

NBC – Blindspot
Viewers: 7.04 million (#2), A18-49: 2.0/ 7 (#1)

VinceW

VinceW

(edited)

the 1/2 breakdowns

 

10:00 p.m.

ABC – Castle

Viewers: 6.83 million (#3), A18-49: 1.1/ 3 (#3)

CBS – NCIS: Los Angeles

Viewers: 8.04 million (#1), A18-49: 1.3/ 4 (#2)

NBC – Blindspot

Viewers: 8.24 million (#2), A18-49: 2.4/ 7 (#1)

——–

10:30 p.m.

ABC – Castle

Viewers: 5.65 million (#3), A18-49: 1.0/ 3 (#3)

CBS – NCIS: Los Angeles

Viewers: 7.64 million (#1), A18-49: 1.2/ 4 (#2)

NBC – Blindspot

Viewers: 7.04 million (#2), A18-49: 2.0/ 7 (#1)

NCIS:LA holding most viewers for the hour; Kensi and Deeks went undercover at a spa. Both in white robes at some point. Castle fans next week will get Hayley and Beckett undercover at a spa in white robes instead. After the "Cool Boys" downward spiral, it is doubtful that even Castle and Beckett in robes whether at the loft or spa will help the show now.  It is such a shame that the network let the new producers ruin the show with the so-called timeout of a working marriage.

Edited by VinceW
verdana

verdana

  • Author

TV Grim Reaper ‏@TVGrimReaper  3h

#Castle ratings (1.0) go lower. The reaper’s still got it as a “toss up”, but that’s looking too generous.

 

Rebecca ‏@sinisterkid92  2h2 hours ago

@TVGrimReaper doesn't Castle have more going for it that could save it for another year? Like the syndication deal? And +7s are at 2.0??

 

TV Grim Reaper ‏@TVGrimReaper  2h2 hours ago

@sinisterkid92 +7’s are irrelevant, and the *only* thing that might save it is syndication $, the ratings are terrible

 

TV Grim Reaper ‏@TVGrimReaper  2h2 hours ago

@sinisterkid92 the only thing that matters is ad viewing, and nobody watches ads in DVR playback

 

S55

S55

So many Pollyannas in this fandom don't pay more attention to the BUSINESS of television and realize that L+3/L+7 are worthless when it comes to the money being made off a TV show. The TV Grim Reaper is absolutely correct, and anyone who clings to a rise in L+3/L+7 (where ALL shows' ratings rise) is kidding himself or herself. Period. 

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

https://www.tvmediainsights.com/newsletter/nbcs-blindspot-first-new-network-series-renewed-for-2016-17/

 

But how much did that have to do with viewers being put off when they realised Katic was absent? 

 

Yes, SK was absent; but didn't someone claim she was (misleadingly) in a promo? So whatever audience that tuned in still maybe thought they would see her. So that doesn't wash for me.

 

The show is just hurtling downhill. I honestly don't see this show getting another season at this rate.

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Brit Babe

Brit Babe

I can't say I'm surprised by these ratings and the half an hour breakdown in terms of viewers tells a very interesting story.

 

I also think the 18-49 ratings aren't telling the full story, because when you look at the number of viewers since 8x01 people have been dropping off nearly every week (there was a bit of bounce with 8x03/8x04 but very small) and lets remember the massive drop that 8x01 already took. While the internet and speculation of what was going to and is happening cannot take a big credit for this drop, many publications are making side swipes at Castle in their print publications and just take a look at comments on Facebook or that twitter account in the other thread of people who don’t usually talk about Castle. People are not happy and savvy enough nowadays to see through stuff and just switch off.

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verdana

verdana

  • Author

So many Pollyannas in this fandom don't pay more attention to the BUSINESS of television and realize that L+3/L+7 are worthless when it comes to the money being made off a TV show. The TV Grim Reaper is absolutely correct, and anyone who clings to a rise in L+3/L+7 (where ALL shows' ratings rise) is kidding himself or herself. Period. 

Yeah I see a lot of fans talking about the L+3/L+7 ratings and clinging to those as the ratings take a tumble but based on what I've read from those who follow this stuff regularly and aren't blinded, it's meaningless to the people that really count. 

KaveDweller

KaveDweller

(edited)

Yeah I see a lot of fans talking about the L+3/L+7 ratings and clinging to those as the ratings take a tumble but based on what I've read from those who follow this stuff regularly and aren't blinded, it's meaningless to the people that really count. 

 

There was an interview with executives at the major networks linked somewhere upthread here.  They all talked about how L+3/L+7 was becoming important and one network (Fox?) even said they don't look at overnights at all and only care about L+3/L+7.  I suppose they could be lying, but why would they lie about that?

 

Now, I'm not claiming there's anything good about Castle's ratings. They are down a LOT from what was only ever average numbers.  I can't imagine why ABC would give it another season. I just kind of wonder about TV Grim Reaper/Cancellation Bear insisting that things are a certain way and will never change. The TV business model is going to have to change somewhat if networks want to continue to exist, so if networks executives are acknowledging that, I think anyone covering TV ratings should be acknowledging it too.  Even if it is just to say they think it's stupid of the networks to look at L+3 or to explain why they think the execs are lying. But refusing to acknowledge or have a discussion about it makes them look like poor reporters of information. I think I even read that the +3 numbers do count for advertisers? (I'm not sure why they would, but who knows with TV).

Edited by KaveDweller
BellyLaughter

BellyLaughter

Surely it just boils down to cost vs. profit.  Surely most profit comes from advertising in the form of commercial breaks.  Anything other than overnight numbers is just sugar coating??  I don't really understand the +3/+7 stuff but it obviously exists for a reason??  The TV landscape does appear to be shifting but is that enough to preserve Castle??  

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Surely it just boils down to cost vs. profit.  Surely most profit comes from advertising in the form of commercial breaks.  Anything other than overnight numbers is just sugar coating??  I don't really understand the +3/+7 stuff but it obviously exists for a reason??  The TV landscape does appear to be shifting but is that enough to preserve Castle??  

 

At the end of the day, all the +3/+7 is for is bragging rights and continuing to insist the emperor has clothes even when all he wears is a fig leaf.

 

TV may be shifting, but it is still LIVE watching that pays the bills and, 99% of the time, seals a show's fate.

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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

Surely it just boils down to cost vs. profit.  Surely most profit comes from advertising in the form of commercial breaks.  Anything other than overnight numbers is just sugar coating??  I don't really understand the +3/+7 stuff but it obviously exists for a reason??  The TV landscape does appear to be shifting but is that enough to preserve Castle??  

 

Oh, I don't think it will preserve Castle at this point.  And all shows jump with DVR viewing, so the relative rankings of the shows probably stays pretty much the same. And the relative ranking within a network is how they are judged. I think it would only matter if a show's jump is out of proportion with other shows' jumps.

 

From what I understand most money actually comes from syndication, not the initial ad revenue. But Castle has over 150 episodes already in syndication, I'm not sure continuing the show would add much value from a strict financial sense. Especially if they have to give the actors a raise to continue on.

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TWP

TWP

Surely it just boils down to cost vs. profit.  Surely most profit comes from advertising in the form of commercial breaks.  Anything other than overnight numbers is just sugar coating??  I don't really understand the +3/+7 stuff but it obviously exists for a reason??  The TV landscape does appear to be shifting but is that enough to preserve Castle??

Yes, it's because Nielsen CAN collect that information and thus does as another product to sell to networks. Networks use the information to inflate their numbers, for nothing but PR reasons, as Wendy says. Also, if Nielsen didn't collect those numbers, they'd be even further accused of being antiquated, even though the numbers don't matter to renewal. So it's a face-saving gesture all around, because it's really hard to convince people that delayed viewing doesn't matter.

Nielsen also collects C3 data, which is number of COMMERCIALS viewed during live+3 days. That metric is the one actually used by networks and advertisers to judge a show. C3 is not typically published, but it tracks closely enough to "live+same day " that live plus same day can be used to predict cancellations.

But the whole point of TV is advertising. Networks could care less if you're watching their shows if you aren't a Nielsen family AND aren't watching commercials. That's why any DVR viewing doesn't matter. L+3, L+7, just for fun, not seriously considered.

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FlickerToAFlame

FlickerToAFlame

(edited)

SpoilerTV_Castle ‏@STV_Castle 3h3 hours ago

Chart showing the decline of #Castle ratings http://bit.ly/XodA1d

Interesting that 2x18 was the highest ever in the demo and overall ratings. People wanting to see if Beckett would survive Tick Tick Tick? Edited by FlickerToAFlame
Chado

Chado

The biggest issue in my opinion....is that DWTS was 'winner of the night' whilst Castle was 'loser of the night'. The DWTS audience isn't sticking around for Castle, Castle isn't even keeping 50% of it. ABC has to be looking at this and realize it is over. DWTS would be a much better lead-in for a new show, Castle is completely wasting their build up.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 month hiatus coincides with a night change and an announcement that this is the final season. Move Castle to Tuesday 10pm or Sunday nights, and just let people know this is the final season.

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BellyLaughter

BellyLaughter

The biggest issue in my opinion....is that DWTS was 'winner of the night' whilst Castle was 'loser of the night'. The DWTS audience isn't sticking around for Castle, Castle isn't even keeping 50% of it. ABC has to be looking at this and realize it is over. DWTS would be a much better lead-in for a new show, Castle is completely wasting their build up.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 month hiatus coincides with a night change and an announcement that this is the final season. Move Castle to Tuesday 10pm or Sunday nights, and just let people know this is the final season.

 

It will be interesting to see if ABC has the cajones to do that.  It would be sending a message.  Bid an ailing Castle farewell in a different  timeslot and have the courage to back something new in the Monday timeslot.  How can they expect audiences to embrace new programs if they can't take the leap of faith and do it themselves??  As much as I have loved Castle I would have respect for ABC doing something like this rather than keeping Rick and Kate on life support because no one has the guts to turn off the machines.  

femmefan1946

femmefan1946

(edited)

I'm interested in the 'lead-in' thing.

Do most viewers not have a remote control?

My TV even shows me what is on next on about 500 channels when I click the right button.

 

Is this unusual?

Why would there be ANY lead-in from one show to another, unless they appealed to exactly the same demographic?

 

The lead-in to Agents of SHIELD tonight (one of my appointment shows) was Fresh Off the Boa*t. Now both shows have lots of Asian characters, but a family sitcom to a superhero mayhem show?  Why?

 

 

 

 

*I really like FotB. Love the parents.

Edited by femmefan1946
Brit Babe

Brit Babe

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 month hiatus coincides with a night change and an announcement that this is the final season. Move Castle to Tuesday 10pm or Sunday nights, and just let people know this is the final season.

I would not be surprised if this happens. Change the night and announce it is the final season. If ratings continue to fall over the next couple of eps and they fall below 6m viewer mark which they could do next week. It's bye, bye Castle.

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TWP

TWP

(edited)

Preliminary ratings are 1.5/8.02 but football in two major markets mean that will go down. Still though, that looks like at least some increase.

If they hit a season high, I think it will be an indictment of the huge mistakes of the first 6-7 episodes....maybe not one that is aired externally, but network internally may be tearing into them.

Edited by TWP
Blackrock1

Blackrock1

Does anybody know what impact releasing a screener has had on ratings in the past? Just curious.

It's hard to imagine that another season is in the cards. Old show, third set of show runners, presumably expensive cast, story lines being repeated, no promotion, no cast interviews.....IMO they are not expending resources or energy to pump up something they are winding down.

The double switch on the extended winter hiatus indicates SOME sort of BTS activity at the network level. I'd love to hear everyone's speculation as to what?

S55

S55

I think ABC always intended for the show to return in February (I never read or heard a compelling reason to have it return sooner than every other ABC show on a winter hiatus), and TVLine f*cked up in being the only outlet to report a sooner date. Mittovich tried to change his story last night and say they had a February return date all along, but he's covering his ass after looking foolish and stupid.  

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TWP

TWP

(edited)

It's hard to imagine that another season is in the cards. Old show, third set of show runners, presumably expensive cast, story lines being repeated, no promotion, no cast interviews.....IMO they are not expending resources or energy to pump up something they are winding down.

 

The double switch on the extended winter hiatus indicates SOME sort of BTS activity at the network level. I'd love to hear everyone's speculation as to what?

Whatever syndication deals they have may be enough to push it through for another season.  Cast interviews have always been pretty rare in my experience. And Castle writing has never been a work of literary genius ;-). 

 

I wonder if the churn in winter start date was just someone over at TVLine getting their scoop from the wrong people and everyone else copying off their paper? The article talking about changing start dates was re-edited quietly.  If there had been real churn, I think it would have been headline-worthy over there.

Edited by TWP
S55

S55

I just checked the last two episodes before the break got 6.6 million, so nearly a million drop. I'll be interested to see what Sunday's episode gets.

 

Yeah, Valentine's Day and also a long holiday weekend. Ratings might be interesting for that night. Then it goes up against the Grammys the next night which also is being broadcast live across all times zones for the first time this year. 

TWP

TWP

Preliminary ratings are 0.8 (embarrassing), but I expected that with a random Sunday slot up against tough competition.

DVR ratings don't mean much or anything to renewal, but I wonder if they will be higher than typical here, as people see the Sunday ep on DVRs. The numbers will maybe indicate if people accidentally missed the Sunday timeslot or if the typical weekly delay of viewing apathy was to blame.

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