S10.E02: Burn

[JMO]

 

It's like... yeah, and the BAU doesn't really exist, and they don't have a jet, and they never would've made exceptions for Reid, or let Morgan/Rossi have facial hair and wear jeans, and Garcia's keyboards are too loud and... we could go on and on. I don't understand why some are so concerned about this one thing. So what? To me, they told a really compelling story, and for folks to be insisting that it be 100% stuck to the letter of the law makes zero sense.

 

I get what you're saying, Willowy, and I'm actually glad that you pointed out all the other elements that stray from reality.  I've thought about them too, and I think you're right.  Anytime we are watching or reading a piece of fiction, we need to be prepared to accept the premise of the author.  As a group of CM fans, we've obviously decided to accept the baseline premise, and yet some of us (me included) get stuck on the other items.  I like a better grounding in reality when the 'basic premise' intersects with that reality.  For instance, I'll read historical fiction if I can get a sense that the author has done their homework.  If not, I move on.

 

To move beyond that whole issue, I guess I would say that, even if I bought into the premise, I just didn't resonate with the issue.  Garcia really did make it all about her, paying no attention to the perpetrator, nor his victims (one of whom was, potentially, Reid), and seemed to insist upon taking responsibility for his impending death, when her interaction with him actually had no impact on it, except to immobilize him for law enforcement.  It didn't paint Garcia in a favorable light, which is too bad.  I don't dislike her character, as it seems others do, but I disliked her in this show.  I know people like her in real life, who are always in the center of their own (and everyone else's) drama-------and I keep them at arm's.....and leg's.....and everything else's.....length. 

 

Maybe that just makes her more real, and maybe that's a tribute to the writing.  But I would much prefer 'real' and 'consistent'.  I don't think we got that.

 

Of course, if the show hadn't made me care about Garcia, it wouldn't be an issue.  So there's that dichotomy of them doing an amazing job getting me to invest, and then the conflict of manipulating the character I care about to make a point that was anything but clear. 

 

I still love the show, or I wouldn't have spent so much time on this today.  I just want it to love me back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Danielg342]

I think what the realism debate boils down to is whether or not the storyline was entertaining. I found the storyline entertaining, so I have no problem dismissing some of the more outlandish elements (although, as I pointed out before, the death penalty being meted out this quickly actually isn't all that implausible). Other storylines that I didn't find quite as entertaining I'm less willing to handwave stuff. It's subjective, I think.

As far as the other ways this could have been handled- I'd have to wholeheartedly disagree that this could have been handled with just a pep talk from Reid or if Baylor wasn't condemned...it had to have had the finality of a death sentence. If the person isn't dying, then resolving the guilt of putting that person in that position doesn't have the same kind of urgency, and urgency is important for a storyline. If Baylor wasn't sentenced to death, there's no sense that Garcia needs to resolve her feelings *now*, because then Baylor would have at least a few years of life ahead of him and Garcia could just wait for the right moment. While that could be great for an arc, as a one-shot deal it just doesn't have the same kind of punch that Baylor on his deathbed does. Same thing with the pep talk with Reid- that's great for an arc but as a one-shot deal, it's just not as compelling. I probably would agree that Reid should have had a bigger role in the storyline- even if it was so much as a phone call to explain how he handled shooting Dowd or a simple picture of Baylor's victims- but there's only so much the show can do.

We could probably argue about whether or not this should have been an arc, because it could have been. I'm not sure it would have been all that great since arcs require detail and nuances and this group of writers just aren't that good at that (being much better at single episode storylines), so I'm happy it gets resolved in one episode.

Is it unrealistic? Yeah, but sometimes in entertainment, you just have to make that choice.

[Wilowy]

I believed it. And that's why I think it was successful. I ultimately didn't give a crap about whatever timeline they threw together (because it didn't matter that much), and only cared about our people and how they would come out of this. 

[ForeverAlone]

For me, it goes back to: why the hell does Penelope feel guilty about Baylor being on death row? Again, she has nothing to feel guilty about. She didn't make him kill all those other people. She didn't make him confess to those crimes, waive appeals and the like. She is not the reason he is on death row. So the way this story was written, I felt her "guilt" or whatever emotion she was supposed to be feeling, was completely misplaced. She could easily have experienced PTSD simply for the fact that she willingly picked up a gun and shot someone, something she probably hadn't serious considered doing ever since Morgan put a gun in her hands during "Penelope." Her emotions could easily have been more internal about evaluating what sort of person she is and what sort of actions she is willing to take to protect a good friend. It didn't even have to be about Baylor, but about her own internal response to committing (very justifiable) violence. If it had been presented in such a fashion, I would even have bought into the fact that it was all about her. But really, this story became more about execution rather than resolving any of Penelope's issues with shooting someone. How exactly is this supposed to help any sort of PTSD for her, and if that is not what Janine was going for with this storyline, just what was she going for? Why did she make these storytelling choices? Yes, those are rhetorical questions, but it's why I will never swallow this B story. 

[Wilowy]

FA may I suggest you write Janine a letter? That would be really cool if you were to get a response, and you'd possibly get her definitive answer once and for all, especially if you phrased it like you did above. 

[vibeology]

For me, it goes back to: why the hell does Penelope feel guilty about Baylor being on death row? Again, she has nothing to feel guilty about. 

 

I guess that doesn't bother me because people are not always rational and logical. When someone is dealing with mental health issues like PTSD, expecting their feelings to come from a rational place isn't realistic. Garcia was feeling guilty because someone she has a deep connection with was about to die. She may not have had anything to do with his upcoming execution, but she knows that her involvement in the case led to his arrest and eventual sentence. (Which I agree, doesn't make sense in terms of outcome or timeline.) I think her revelation explained her emotional state. She needed someone to see her, to see that she was afraid and upset and be there for her even if they couldn't undo what was done. She did that for Baylor and let Morgan do that for her and its the first step towards dealing with her PTSD. Knowing this show it will also be the last step in dealing with her PTSD but I'm not bothered by her emotional state being a mess; it should be. Garcia did something that she never thought she'd be able to do and it scares her. 

[normasm]

Vibeology, somebody Garcia had a deep connection with was nearly killed 3 times in less than a day, and was seriously injured. Why wasn't she fretting about Reid? I know the human mind isn't always logical, but, in a TV series with canon characters with whom people have been invested for 10 years, couldn't the writers focus on what makes them tick, what helps them interact and heal when they've been hurt? Why take a character so far away from her plausible world, to make her look like a loony fool? There's just so many other story lines they could have persued that would have been a realistic Penelope journey, and served the canon.

[Danielg342]

Personally, I would have bought Garcia being consumed by nightmares and PTSD enough to go and face Baylor. To make him less of a scary monster. That would have dealt with the "urgency" part of the equation. Garcia's mental. health. I think someone stated that she could have been traumatized to the point where her work suffers. She can't do anything. She's frozen. And the only way for her to move forward was to see Baylor. There. You have your urgency and a legit reason for her to see him.

 

A "pep talk from Reid" is minimizing what could have been some awesome bonding moments between two people who have been through the same kind of ordeal. Even if she'd come to Reid and he'd suggested her going to see Baylor, that would have been a nice moment.

 

I don't really think there's urgency there. If we're doing this in one episode, having Garcia's work suffer for one episode really won't sell it to me that she's having PTSD- it seems more like "a bad day" than "a continuing problem". The show already tried recently to resolve one team member's PTSD in one episode- Reid's grieving over Maeve in "Magnum Opus"- and it just didn't ring true to me. Furthermore, seeing the whole thing wrapped up in a "talk" is just underwhelming to me- it seems so simple a solution that it's almost like it trivializes the situation. Lastly, again, the guy is still alive and will be after the talk- there's no immediacy to resolve the problem because Garcia "can do it whenever".

 

I think the only way the "Garcia needs to talk to Baylor" solution works would be if Hotch gave her an ultimatum saying "fix your issues or you're off the team", but, again, I feel the only way that works is if we establish over multiple episodes that Garcia's work is suffering from PTSD. Doing it in one episode would be rushing things.

 

For me, it goes back to: why the hell does Penelope feel guilty about Baylor being on death row?

 

Well, it was Garcia's actions that got him arrested- if she didn't shoot Baylor then he would have killed Reid and herself and he might have escaped capture. In any case, as others have said, PTSD sufferers aren't really all that rational, so I don't see much of an issue with Garcia overinflating things and making them "about her" when they aren't.

[webruce]

I was kinda taken aback by Morgan refusing to help out Garcia. But in end I think she learned a lot. I Had tears when Greg Baylor was put to sleep, but so happy he talked to Garcia and she was there at end for him. I loved the big hug from a waiting Morgan at her house!

It was nice to see Kevin Lynch helping the team, but I thought that maybe Garcia would have called him for some support. Also nice Kevin didn't really struggle to make it look like Garcia is the only one that could handle that job.

I like this years team dynamics better, there isn't the apparent team ups like last season. It isn't always Morgan/JJ, Hotch/Rossi, and Blake thrown in some where and Reid left at headquarters to go over evidence. I like Hotch/JJ going to the Police HQ. The others split between crime scene,family,and morgue.

I liked Hotch and Morgan going to the College Dorm to look for Nathan Chow. Finding the bomb material. They are 2 guys that look the part. Big, strong and professional. Then Morgan tackling Nathan, thought he would snap him in half.

Unsub Justin Leu was kind of driven by his father Rodney's rage as he grew up, and the death of Todd his brother. Dantes 9 circles of hell, was quite a way to kill people.

[webruce]

Just a thought as I read through these other thoughts. Maybe death row inmate, Greg Baylor was some how pressured into trying to kill Reid? Like family being held, or some great big secret or guilt, that he is pushed into the attempted murder and confessing to murders that he did not do? Maybe a family member commited them? Baylor confessed to save them? Garcia might dig deeper into his life and find out that some facts don't fit? Then things are found out that Baylor was innocent? Or he was there for the murders/had knowledge of them, but did nothing to stop it? That could be a possible future story line. Then Garcia would help the team solve it and she would feel vindicated about wanting to help/be there for Baylor?? Just a thought.

Edited October 12, 2014 by webruce

[SSAHotchner]

Vibeology, somebody Garcia had a deep connection with was nearly killed 3 times in less than a day, and was seriously injured. Why wasn't she fretting about Reid? I know the human mind isn't always logical, but, in a TV series with canon characters with whom people have been invested for 10 years, couldn't the writers focus on what makes them tick, what helps them interact and heal when they've been hurt? Why take a character so far away from her plausible world, to make her look like a loony fool? There's just so many other story lines they could have persued that would have been a realistic Penelope journey, and served the canon.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But with JSB, it's always about the unsubs.

[normasm]

SSAH, I have to say that, with a show that has been on 10 years, it may be easier to come up with new weird unsubs every week than it is to flesh out and keep to-canon beloved characters people are invested in. In some ways, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

That said, these folks are professionals and are paid some big bucks to do just that, and they should have an extensive bible from which to weave plenty of plausible stories for each of the characters, and the team dynamic.

[Wilowy]

webruce, some of us thought that because Greg Baylor had the same last name as the guy who shot Penelope that there might be some connection. They didn't acknowledge it in this episode, although it may come into play somewhere down the line.

 

If they don't pursue it, I'd at least like a line - maybe like Garcia sitting down for a coffee break with Kevin (because he was there during the James Colby part, that's when they actually met), and she says "What is it with me and guys named Baylor?" 

[Danielg342]

webruce, some of us thought that because Greg Baylor had the same last name as the guy who shot Penelope that there might be some connection. They didn't acknowledge it in this episode, although it may come into play somewhere down the line.

Just a minor correction here- “James Colby Baylor” was the alias he gave Garcia, his real name was Jason Clark Battle.

[Wilowy]

I don't ever think that the regular characters are boring, Sweet Tooth. I love our heroes and how the writers and actors given us richly layered, diverse personalities with genuine human foibles throughout the decade they've been featured. There are myriad extensions of their characters created by fans every day via fanfiction and role-play, and we've yet to plumb the depths of their true heart of hearts, each of them as individuals. Spencer Reid is one of the most compelling characters on the entire television landscape, even with the constraints of network television, and Aaron Hotchner is the epitome of the perfect yet flawed boss and leader; tough when he needs to be and understanding when warranted, never played for the fool.

 

These are strong, dynamic personalities, and well-loved by legions of fans for now a decade. Rightly so, imo.

Also, point taken Daniel.

[Wilowy]

No they don't. They stopped doing that towards the end of 8. In 9 there were maybe two episodes that fit that description. Torture porn is the exception, not the rule these days, and I don't believe the writers find the characters boring at all. I do think they find it hard to come up with new and inventive UnSubs at this stage of the game. 

[Danielg342]

I'm going to reply in "The Writers of CM", since I think that's where the discussion is going.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Danielg342

[zannej]

I have to say that if there was precedence on the show for expedited executions, I might have bought that it fit in with the series as part of the show's reality. I accept that the trials and court stuff probably plays out a lot faster and time is accelerated-- to a point. But my biggest issue with the timeline for this execution was that it contradicted the previously established timeline for executions. It also just didn't make sense for someone to take a plea to get the death penalty.

 

That said, what I think could have worked instead (and not been a blatant anti-death penalty story) would be if Baylor had serious complications from the gunshot wound-- maybe he threw a clot or got an infection and was dying. He could have been wasting away with a DNR and order of no feeding tubes and he would have had family there and Garcia could have talked to the family members. That would have been grounds for more conflict bc the family members were the ones who did nothing wrong and their loved one was dying and Garcia was the one who shot him, even though it was justified. She would have wanted their forgiveness and understanding. Alternatively, he could have still been conscious but knowing he was going to die and she could have gone to him to try to get his forgiveness. To me, that would have made more sense than the death penalty thing.

 

I also wish that Hotch had spoken more to Garcia about what she was going through, because I think he would understand. I want someone other than Morgan to get to really interact with her on a deeper level for a change.

 

On another note, I know it may seem like a tv trope, but it would have been nice if something about the case had mirrored something about Garcia's personal story.

[Shanna]

My biggest problem was that he supposedly waved his rights to a trial. You can't do that for a death penalty.

[Danielg342]

My biggest problem was that he supposedly waved his rights to a trial. You can't do that for a death penalty.

I have to say that if there was precedence on the show for expedited executions, I might have bought that it fit in with the series as part of the show's reality. I accept that the trials and court stuff probably plays out a lot faster and time is accelerated-- to a point. But my biggest issue with the timeline for this execution was that it contradicted the previously established timeline for executions. It also just didn't make sense for someone to take a plea to get the death penalty.

 

 

Perhaps you both missed the post, but I have already pointed out that you can. See this: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/15888-s10e02-burn/?p=447407

That said, what I think could have worked instead (and not been a blatant anti-death penalty story) would be if Baylor had serious complications from the gunshot wound-- maybe he threw a clot or got an infection and was dying. He could have been wasting away with a DNR and order of no feeding tubes and he would have had family there and Garcia could have talked to the family members. That would have been grounds for more conflict bc the family members were the ones who did nothing wrong and their loved one was dying and Garcia was the one who shot him, even though it was justified. She would have wanted their forgiveness and understanding. Alternatively, he could have still been conscious but knowing he was going to die and she could have gone to him to try to get his forgiveness. To me, that would have made more sense than the death penalty thing.

 

....

 

On another note, I know it may seem like a tv trope, but it would have been nice if something about the case had mirrored something about Garcia's personal story.

 

I like your alternate story, although I have a minor suggestion- drop the DNR part and simply make the infection terminal. With the DNR order it makes it look like "Baylor brought all this upon himself" and might be harder for him to gain audience sympathy. Making the infection terminal leaves Baylor with no choices and adds more urgency to the story.

 

I also agree that maybe the case should have been similar to the storyline Garcia was going through...perhaps it would have been more cohesive since both plotlines would have explored the same themes.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I like your alternate story, although I have a minor suggestion- drop the DNR part and simply make the infection terminal. With the DNR order it makes it look like "Baylor brought all this upon himself" and might be harder for him to gain audience sympathy. Making the infection terminal leaves Baylor with no choices and adds more urgency to the story.

 

I'm a bit lost, Danielg342, are you saying Baylor was supposed to gain sympathy for the audience?

[Danielg342]

 

I'm a bit lost, Danielg342, are you saying Baylor was supposed to gain sympathy for the audience?

 

In a nutshell, yes. If Garcia is going to seek forgiveness from someone, shouldn't that person be redeemable? It wouldn't make sense for me if Garcia was trying to get the forgiveness of a jerk- it begs the question, "why is she worried what he thinks?"

[ForeverAlone]

And that idea is precisely why I had a problem with that storyline. I didn't think it should have been about Baylor at all, and Penelope certainly shouldn't have been seeking any sort of forgiveness, because people should not need forgiveness for defending themselves or others. For me, this is when the storyline veered off from a potentialltly interesting story of Penelope coming to terms with willingly committing violence against another person in defense of Reid, and accepting what she is capable of, to be more externally driven about execution. Based on the way the story was framed, it sounds like Penelope would have experienced no emotional aftereffects if he hadn't been put on death row, because that is all she talked about. I guess in that situation it was rather lucky for Janine that Baylor committed multiple murders before, confessed to all of them and waived all his appeals to be executed quickly.

[Shanna]

Perhaps you both missed the post, but I have already pointed out that you can. See this: http://forums.previo...-burn/?p=447407

Actually, in your post you mentioned they could wave rights to an appeal. On the show they said he waved rights to a trial, which is a whole different thing.

It was just so unnecessary. They could easily have dealt with the emotions without this story. The previous death penalty story was much better, although the drama of the two dying on the same day was unnecessary.

But this show requires frequent logical leaps. If the writers had made the emotional core make more sense I would have handwaved it, but I could not identify with Garcia blaming herself for his being on death row, when he was there for murders that had nothing to do with her. Even the end. She was sitting there with a bunch of people who were presumably families of people he killed and all the emphasis was on her being happy to support him in death. The only emotional beat that was real to me. Was the killer telling Garcia she was there for her own reasons, not for him.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Shanna

[Old Dog]

I agree Shanna. For me the whole thing made no sense. I could absolutely understand her having a meltdown had she actually shot and killed him. But instead of being overwhelmingly relieved that she saved Reid's life and probably her own as well, she has instead gone on this melodramatic trip because Baylor CHOSE to waive appeals in favour of a super fast execution. It just doesn't make any sense.It feels to me as though the saving of Reid was of much less importance to her so I can completely see why Morgan wouldn't support her.  And for me I thought KV overacted although I see many people liked her performance.

It's a shame because the case itself in this episode was not bad.

[Danielg342]

Actually, in your post you mentioned they could wave rights to an appeal. On the show they said he waved rights to a trial, which is a whole different thing.

It was just so unnecessary. They could easily have dealt with the emotions without this story. The previous death penalty story was much better, although the drama of the two dying on the same day was unnecessary.

But this show requires frequent logical leaps. If the writers had made the emotional core make more sense I would have handwaved it, but I could not identify with Garcia blaming herself for his being on death row, when he was there for murders that had nothing to do with her. Even the end. She was sitting there with a bunch of people who were presumably families of people he killed and all the emphasis was on her being happy to support him in death. The only emotional beat that was real to me. Was the killer telling Garcia she was there for her own reasons, not for him.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90935 There's even this "money" quote:

 

 

Clements acknowledges that some inmates do not go through 20 years of legal battles, and opt to accept death almost immediately — they plead guilty to murder, request and receive the death penalty and choose not to pursue any appeals. These cases especially, some experts maintain, show that many prisoners have death wishes and are using law enforcement officials to help them carry out their suicides.

 

 

(emphasis mine)

 

^ You can plead guilty to capital murder and even request the death sentence. What the links I've provided show is that doing so results in some vetting of the decision, so that the state makes sure it's not killing an "insane" person, which is illegal under the Constitution. In the case of Michael Passaro, the appeals were state-initiated, since the appellate attorney, Joe Savitz, believed Passaro viewed death as a reward, not a punishment.

 

Regardless, as I've shown, it is possible to plead guilty to capital murder and waive the appeals as Greg Baylor did. I might grant that, in reality, the process likely wouldn't take mere months to complete- Passaro was arrested in 1998, pled guilty in 2000 and was executed in 2002- but that's mainly due to logistics, since in reality court schedules are packed and hearings thus can never be scheduled back to back. Given that a lot of shows handwave the length of time of this process (Law & Order being the most egregious) and that CM itself handwaves the process at times ("The Edge of Winter", "Tabula Rasa", "Damaged", "25 to Life"), I can accept that Baylor got around to his execution so quickly. I also understand that, due to the constraints of writing the series, it's just not possible for a writer to wait years to resolve the arc, so I can accept them speeding up the process.

 

In any case...take away from this the fact that you can plead guilty to capital muder (avoiding a trial) and waive the right to appeals. Just like for any crime.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

^ You can plead guilty to capital murder and even request the death sentence. What the links I've provided show is that doing so results in some vetting of the decision, so that the state makes sure it's not killing an "insane" person, which is illegal under the Constitution. In the case of Michael Passaro, the appeals were state-initiated, since the appellate attorney, Joe Savitz, believed Passaro viewed death as a reward, not a punishment.

 

And before that, Utah's Gary Gilmore asked to be executed by firing squad, because he believed that the state's other method of execution, hanging, could be botched. This was in the late seventies, and his brother Mikal wrote a book years later about his life with and without Gary called Shot in the Heart. So yes, there are some cases where Death Row inmates can waive their appeals and such, but they're the exception, not the rule. Hell, Richard Speck was actually sentenced to be executed, but that was overturned due to issues about jury selection and he died of a heart attack after nearly three decades behind bars. So sometimes even when the right verdict comes down, it doesn't get carried out.

 

As it relates to the episode, it would have been less aggravating for me if Garcia had been less of a flibbertigibbet about it. She didn't make the guy waive his appeals, so why was she acting as if she was personally walking him to the execution chamber? That's the rub for me, that she behaved as if she was solely responsible for Baylor's situation when that was the outcome he'd chosen for himself.

[normasm]

I'll correct you just a bit, if I may, Costar. The reason Gary Gilmore wanted to be shot was so that his blood would be "spilled" in his death. Some Mormon offshoots believe that this is the only way to cleanse the spirit so it can move on. I think it harkens back to Joseph Smith's murder.

 

Recently, several people have asked for the same execution, but i'm not sure their reasonings, some may be, as you said, because it's more sure.

Edited October 13, 2014 by normasm

[Danielg342]

Didn't Gary Gilmore need to get to the Supreme Court just to get the firing squad?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

His mother Bessie sued for a stay on his behalf, and the Supreme Court refused to hear her claim in a five-to-four decision. The ACLU got involved, and Gilmore was granted a couple of stays against his explicit wishes. He tried to commit suicide in the wake of each stay. Given the choice between firing squad and going to thee gallows, he said, "I'd prefer to be shot."

[DrLar]

I recognized the unsub -- Masuka from Dexter!!  Another great show that the writers ultimately killed. 

 

Penelope's story was a great big yawn and so what.

 

Liked how Kate Callahan fit in, and that they are not making her the shiny new toy that must be the center of the show.

 

I eager watching this one because I saw the credits and "Masuka" was going to be in it... but sadly disappointed it was all about Garcia...

[Knittzu]

That was just WAY too much Garcia for me, and my least favorite incarnation of the character -- childish, overwrought, and needy Garcia, who visits a prison wearing a dress my six-year-old would call babyish. Oh noes, a killer is being put to death for his crimes!! How can Garcia bear such a thing? Except that the BAU itself executes criminals on the regular. Has there been any weeping hysteria from her over those cases? You'd think someone so strongly opposed to the death penalty would have objections to being part of a team with the impressive body count the BAU has accumulated over the years. Sure, most of those executions were justified in that it was either kill the unsub or be murdered... but that was the exact choice she made with Reid's would-be killer. 

 

Granted I like Kevin, and thought he was very effective in this episode, and it was refreshing to see a technical analyst do their job without cheesy, cringe inducing jokes.

 

 

I fully agree. For the first time in a long time, watching scenes with the technical analyst felt comfortable to me because I wasn't bracing myself for the next round of Garcia’s tired shtick. Or maybe I’m the one that’s tired. After watching all nine previous seasons, I have serious Garcia-fatigue. I really wouldn't mind an extended break from her while she gets some much-needed therapy, especially with Kevin willing to step in at a moment’s notice.

 

That said, I was irked by Morgan's treatment of her. I might not be crazy about Garcia myself, but damn... he's supposed to be her loving and devoted friend. I don't have a problem with him telling her that she was wrong, but what sort of person talks to their distressed, emotionally unstable friend so harshly and then ignores all of her distraught phone calls? 

 

I enjoyed Reid's scenes and was happy to see more of him this week, but that scene with him figuring out the mouth-markings was silly. Really, he looks at ONE victim, sees three slashes, and immediately realizes that they're roman numerals? Even for Reid, that's quite a stretch. Couldn't they have had him look at both victims before making that leap? Hell, even having him see a roman numeral five would have made more sense. Three vertical lines could indicate any number of things, and if I were Reid I could probably rattle off a dozen of them.

[normasm]

Hey, Knittzu, welcome, I'm not familiar with you, altho you may have posted before. Yeah, Garcia has increased in annoyance and decreased in effectiveness - I think the beginning was that awful episode "Hope" with the torture porn and the stupid self-help group. Ergh.

 

I think that Morgan's actions were not only plausible, they were warranted, and even compassionate. I don't know about you, but i have had family members and friends who have engaged again and again in self-destructive behavior when they are depressed or out of control. I have probably been that way myself, but it's harder to see yourself in the mirror when we are talking about driving people who love you crazy!

 

Bottom line for me, if Morgan had said, "OK, Babygirl, I'm with you as you go to this guy and apologize that his dysfunctional life that you only intercepted a few weeks ago has come to this crossroads it was headed towards years ago, and which he took responsibility for, and wanted to end, but, Oh! he hasn't heard your story about being sad for giving him a boo-boo, and until he does, he won't be redeemed and fly up to heaven kissing you….. um, OK, Babygirl, that's a good use of my time as your best friend."

 

Nah. He talked to her many times before this, as they acknowledged. He tried to get her to see it wasn't about her at all. She wouldn't even listen, so he did the only thing a true friend could do: stop talking and leave her to listen to herself. Leave her to be strong enough to do what she believed on her own, or rethink.

 

Sometimes the best thing you can do for the ones you love, is let them make the mistakes they insist on, and leave them to the consequences of those mistakes. Then, be there for them in the aftermath, even when all they want to do is slap you.

 

Of all the writing on this episode, what Morgan was written to do rang the truest, to me.

Edited October 19, 2014 by normasm

[Knittzu]

That's a good explanation, normasm. Maybe on re-watch I will see it differently, but on my first viewing it stuck me as surprisingly, uncharacteristically cold -- especially from Morgan, talking to his precious baby-girl. From my point of view, it seemed like she was seriously unraveling, and at the very least he should have given her the number for the FBI's mental health line (they have one, don't they? God knows they need one). It felt like a sudden and jarring character shift for him (although I suppose I should be used to those by now.)

 

Thanks for the welcome! I just finished watching the entire series on Netflix, so my experience of the show is admittedly very different from that of long-time fans.

[normasm]

Hey, you're as legit as I am, for sure!

When Morgan said "we've talked about this" or whatever he said, I took it to mean she had been dumping all this on him and he had told her, "call the therapists". When someone is that wound up in their anxiety/guilt trip, they truly can't hear the person they are talking to, because that person is not saying what they want to hear. I know that it's totally realistic that Garcia might be traumatized by shooting a guy, even to have a reaction that she caused his misfortune which ended in him being on death row. PTSD a does not often go hand-in-hand with logical, calm thinking.

However, depicting this did not serve the show or the Garcia character. The saving grace, for me, was that Morgan gave up trying to reason with her, and let her go do what she thought had to be done. And, good for him.

[SSAHotchner]

That was just WAY too much Garcia for me, and my least favorite incarnation of the character -- childish, overwrought, and needy Garcia, who visits a prison wearing a dress my six-year-old would call babyish. Oh noes, a killer is being put to death for his crimes!! How can Garcia bear such a thing? Except that the BAU itself executes criminals on the regular. Has there been any weeping hysteria from her over those cases? You'd think someone so strongly opposed to the death penalty would have objections to being part of a team with the impressive body count the BAU has accumulated over the years. Sure, most of those executions were justified in that it was either kill the unsub or be murdered... but that was the exact choice she made with Reid's would-be killer. 

 

 

I fully agree. For the first time in a long time, watching scenes with the technical analyst felt comfortable to me because I wasn't bracing myself for the next round of Garcia’s tired shtick. Or maybe I’m the one that’s tired. After watching all nine previous seasons, I have serious Garcia-fatigue. I really wouldn't mind an extended break from her while she gets some much-needed therapy, especially with Kevin willing to step in at a moment’s notice.

 

That said, I was irked by Morgan's treatment of her. I might not be crazy about Garcia myself, but damn... he's supposed to be her loving and devoted friend. I don't have a problem with him telling her that she was wrong, but what sort of person talks to their distressed, emotionally unstable friend so harshly and then ignores all of her distraught phone calls? 

 

I enjoyed Reid's scenes and was happy to see more of him this week, but that scene with him figuring out the mouth-markings was silly. Really, he looks at ONE victim, sees three slashes, and immediately realizes that they're roman numerals? Even for Reid, that's quite a stretch. Couldn't they have had him look at both victims before making that leap? Hell, even having him see a roman numeral five would have made more sense. Three vertical lines could indicate any number of things, and if I were Reid I could probably rattle off a dozen of them.

Hi, Knittzu,

 

I pretty much agree with everything you said here. But since someone else mentioned the 3 vertical lines, I want to say that I actually saw the Roman numeral 3. There were horizontal lines above and below. I can't check because I deleted the ep from my DVR, but I'm sure that's what I saw. Anybody still have the episode and the desire to check this out?

[zannej]

One thing that I noticed but forgot to mention was that after Reid examined one victim's mouth, I think he put the tool down and picked up a different one to look in the other victim's mouth. That way it avoided cross-contamination. It was a small thing, but I liked it because it showed at least some attention to detail. I wonder if that was scripted or if the director said to do it...