S48.E13: Only One of Yous Can Win

[Oscirus]

If the interviews are to be believed:

Eva wasnt put on the jury later in the game because people didnt want her on the jury cheerleading for Joe. They wanted to make a move earlier in the merge but Eva kept telling Joe and Eva the fake info they were feeding Star, so they abandoned that plan.

Also, the biggest surprise was that Eve was closest to Kyle not Joe (Not game wise but in terms of relationships).

 

 This whole game flipped at the krissy boot, Camille leaves it's likely joe/eva vs david mary with both competing for support from Kyle and/or Shaheen. 

Mitch's game ended at the Charity boot as he had no other real alliances and spent the rest of the game being told what to do. 

 

Edited May 25 by Oscirus

[surfgirl]

Have we really talked yet about David's demeanor on the jury bench the entire time he was there? I laughed and laughed and laughed at him every week, he looked like he was flexing so damn hard he was going to pop a nut! And even though he tried to be funny at TFC, he failed, because it was clear that he felt very pissed off to be on the jury and not still in the game. His whole schtick about how the strongest are essentially the only worthy players, and his bullshit at the reunion about how to hold your elbow when drinking to denote if you're a real man or a feminine man made him the poster boy for toxic masculinity. He thinks his girlfriend broke up with him - or whatever his story was - because he lives in a trailer on his parents property, but it's more likely because he's just your garden variety muscle bound meathead. IMO, YMMV. Maybe he should spend more time getting a decent job/career instead of pumping his muscles up and guzzling milk like a deranged toddler.

Edited May 24 by surfgirl

[SummerDreams]

Eva cry some more girl. We all know you just hate women.

[KittyKat425]

On 5/22/2025 at 7:01 PM, iMonrey said:

Well then I'm a bad person too because I wondered what would happen if instead of coddling and encouraging Eva during her near meltdown at fire making, Kamilla had instead leaned over and said "Yeah, you're gonna lose. You're fire is going out, you're gonna lose." And then watch Eva collapse on the ground in an emotional heap and start screaming her head off like when she was practicing. And then Joe would have to come over and hold her and calm her down. Meanwhile Kamilla could just relax and sit there and make her fire and win.

Yeah I know I'm going to hell. I've already got my handbasket all picked out.

But seriously, when I look back (again) at that Very Special Episode early on when Eva had her first meltdown after a challenge and it made Jeffy cry and CBS dedicated an entire, commercial-free half hour to it, it makes me think this is where the other players sort of took their cue WRT Eva from that moment forward, coddling and babying her and never targeting her. Because they recognized in that moment that Eva was the Very Special Player of the Season and therefore untouchable, yet nobody worried she would win because they collectively knew they were all carrying her without saying it out loud.

They didn't do her any favors. She genuinely looked like she was going to cry after Kamilla undercut her argument at the final tribal council and credited Kyle instead. And she looked gobsmacked when Jeff started pulling out more votes for Kyle. It appears that Eva is used to being coddled and getting what she wants.

I will be joining you in hell. Your comment is like you read my mind.

[surfgirl]

Has anyone here been reading the feedback on the finale in other places? I have, and most seem to echo what we've talked about here. I find that interesting because I've seen a couple of videos where Eva is really pissed off that anyone would think anyone out there helped her, and she maintains that she wss 'a huge threat', her words, not mine. I can't believe how much the producers tried to game their own game by not showing us so much alleged stuff behind the scenes. We could not form any other opinion other than yelling at our TVs each week, "why haven't you voted off Joe and Eva yet ffs?!?" But it seems like nobody on the jury felt they were an actual FTC threat, which means we didn't see a lot of conversations going on. And that pisses me off. If I'm going to take time out of my life to watch this show, I don't want Peachy and Co. to manipulate what I'm seeing, do you?!?

Also, it really annoyed me when Kyke was revealing to the jury what he did for a living and then Eva interrupted his answer to gloat at the jury, "You guys think that's impressive, wait til you hear what I do!" Firstly, has another FTC contestant ever interrupted another contestant's answer before? Because I found that very jarring and bad Survivor etiquette, if you will. And also, after Eva was bragging about what she really did,  I wish someone on the jury had said, "Well Eva, since you interrupted Kyle's answer, and told us what you really do, can you tell us now how you were able to lie to Joe, your closest ally in the game, for this entire time, even though truth was one of thrbpillars of your alliances game play? Can you walk us through how you pulled that off?" I'd like to hear her answer since she was on Team Truth, and I'd have liked to see Joe's face while she was explaining how she lied to him the entire time. Because truth seemed like something very important that alliance. 

And speaking of Joe, the more I read about Joe and the more I remember his game play, while he did very well in physical challenges, it seemed from what we saw him saying several times, that he was more concerned with playing with good ethics so that his children would be proud of the game he played. Not to be dismissive, but my guess is his kids might have preferred him to win a million dollars instead? Also, this weird obsession a lot of folks on TV, and especially on Survivor, have with their family being proud of them just seems very self obsessed and sad. I mean, if my loved one is going on this show, I'd honestly be more concerned about their health and can they hack it out there, but just being on the show - at least to me - does not buy one pride from their loved ones. Many times I wonder why the hell someone is out there when they say they have a loved one dying at home. So you decided to not spend as much at time with them as possible and instead come out to play a game of lying and deciet to hopefully win money? Instead of eeking out every moment you could with your loved one? And I feel similarly about Joe. If he feels his kids are not proud of him, pre show, I just don't see how going on a show like this and presenting yourself as this highly ethical guy, to the point where you're willing to throw your game bc your closest ally is on the spectrum, how does that make your kids feel more pride in their dad? To see that the person you were willing to throw the game for had duped you the entire time lying to you about what they did? It's just weird how obsessed some folks are with proving themselves to their own children.  Just be you, ffs.

Edited May 25 by surfgirl

[tinkerbell]

I did read one of the post-game interviews in which Eva assumed that the vote was going to be a tie, or very close, between herself and Joe. Trying to count votes, figuring out who would vote for her and who would vote for Joe.

That was pretty consistent with the way she was acting at the tribal council, speaking as if the decision was between the 2 of them. And the way she was grinning, I am sure she thought that her sob story and list of accomplishments was going to put her over the top. Autistic or not, I never like when contestants are that smug.

[surfgirl]

@tinkerbell Your 'sob story' comment brings up a really interesting and valid point about this season. As others have said, there are probably several contestants that have been on Survivor that are on the spectrum but are either non diagnosed or they chose not to reveal that to anyone.

In 48 alone we had Mitch - who has a stammer so bad that I'm sure it could be medically be considered a disability. And you have Eva who is on the spectrum though she is very high functioning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember Mitch using his stammer as a key identifying component of who he is as a person. And I had so much empathy for him because communicating with him must be very difficult because it takes a lot for him to express himself. Yet he seems like a nice guy, has clearly is in great physical shape, smart, funny, and he seems like he does the best he can in life.

Compare him to Eva, who presented herself from Day One as 'I'm the first ever autistic player on Survivor', and used that as her main selling point in her FTC speech to the jury. OTOH, Evea presents herself as wanting to be on Life's playing field just like anybody else, and not be treated differently, and yet she simultaneously seems to want and tlbe entitled to special treatment because she's autistic. I don't think one can have it both ways. Either you get special, preferential treatment- like producers handing you advantages throughout the game (not just advantages but food in almost every reward. Is it possible she had to eat often if she's on certain meds and that's why she went on every reward, or was that just a coincidence?) - or you get no preferential treatment, period. I'd like to think many viewers were turned off by her game play because we were indeed treating her like everyone else, I know I was. And in that regard she appeared cocky, entitled, anti her fellow female contestants, etc. So we didn't care for her and didn't root for her to win.

Mitch, OTOH, wasn't a great player but I never disliked him because he wasn't mean or entitled, egotistical, etc.

Then there's Joe, who also had his own sob story - poor me, I'm just a Lil old fire captain who needs to win a million dollars for my kids. Firstly, fire capatains make very good salaries and have pensions and likely retire fairly early in life. Secondly, having kids does not mean everyone else should somehow feel sorry for you and help you win a million dollars. Your kids can, yanno, go to school or learn a trade, and create careers and earn their own living. And why on earth did we need to know about the demise of Joe's sister in the beginning of the season? So we'd feel sympathy for Joe. That's gross, using a tragedy like that to win money.

As I'm writing this all out I think I'm really starting to dislike this show fir the level of manipulation it sinks to now. Hiw about let's go back to Old Era Survivor, where folks have to slog through a longer season with more people and really earn that money on their own merits. I honestly don't want any more back stories going forward. Just show me how you can play this game.

Edited May 25 by surfgirl

[Oscirus]

The one thing that stuck out to me about Eva was how she kept talking about how the biggest thing that alot of Autism people can aspire to is marrying another autistic person. Seems like a strange thing to say unless I'm not understanding what she said.

Honestly, I'd like to see Joe play without Eva. He almost seemed handicapped in that last tribal council. 

Eva claiming that Kamille cut her off and thought that her argument that she convinced Joe to boot Shahin would've improved her argument is hilarious.

David thinking there's a masculine or feminine way to drink milk, is eye-roll inducing. I know he said it in a joking way but he was definitely serious.

[Fostersmom]

Holy fuck, Joe all but did what I kept thinking he would do the whole season. From like the 5th episode on, I had this weird vision of him just telling the jury to vote for Eva, since her life is apparently so hard (to him, but not in actuality) that she needed the money to survive. Meanwhile his wife and kids would be at home watching him give a million dollars to her. And that's basically what he did. I'm honestly surprised he didn't build fire in her place after her melt down when practicing. Does having Autism impact her life? Yes, I'm sure it does. But a lot of us have medical conditions that impact our daily lives and we don't make it our whole identity. Like it or not, that's what she did on this show and with Joe. Girlfriend knew how to pull his strings and used it to her advantage the whole game. She certainly knows how to turn on the tears. I think her age plays into it too. She's young enough to still turn on the water works and people feel bad for the young girl crying. Autism or not, that won't be working for her all that much longer. I'm 48 and have had MS since I was 26. Is it frustrating when my body won't physically do what I need it or want it to do? Yes, it is. But crying when I no longer can do basic things like stepping on or off a curb without something to hold on to isn't going to get me anywhere. 

[kav]

4 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

Autism or not, that won't be working for her all that much longer.

And that is what I believe is wrong with many people in society.  I am glad that you do not cry when you have challenges, but crying is not a form of weakness, and I am sure that she does not want to cry during her episodes, but when her brain is going a mile a minute and processing things like "I am a failure or I can't do this" which is what was going on in practicing fire, she was having strong emotions. (rhap, exit)

[millennium]

17 hours ago, KittyKat425 said:

I will be joining you in hell. Your comment is like you read my mind.

Table for three.

Eva should have argued her real skill: emotional manipulation.   Early graduation from college, doctorate at Brown University, fellow of the National Science Brain Trust or whatever it is ... oh, but I'm autistic and sometimes I can't control my emotions!

I'm close to someone who is autistic (Asperger's) and every day of his life  ranges between a challenge and a living hell.   He has never gone to bed at night and thought "this was a good day," while experience has taught him that hoping for a better tomorrow is a joke.   The only thing he really wants out of life is acceptance and friends.   He's managed to get his college degree (by working twice as hard as everybody else), get a job, and live a decent life but none of that makes any difference because most people don't want to interact with, let alone befriend, someone who seems a little "off."  It makes them uncomfortable, so they keep their distance.  He's been rebuffed so many times he's wary of even trying anymore.

The only times you really see autistic people featured on TV is when the networks have an opportunity to put a sweet, relatable face on autism (Eva), or a really bad one (criminals and/or people who are obsessive and lack empathy).  And in both instances, it's not really about autism.  It's about exploitation and profit.

Meanwhile, amid all the corporate virtue signaling, the autistic people who exist in the wide swath between those two extreme ends of "the spectrum" remain invisible. 

IMO Eva emotionally manipulated Joe and others, not only by playing the autism card, but the damsel card as well.    Does anyone really believe that Eva was unaware her sobs could be heard by Joe and Kyle back at camp?  Does anyone believe Eva the rocket scientist was ignorant of how a woman's sobs can work upon a man who sees himself as a protector/provider type?

IMO, when she revealed her true profession and accomplishments to Joe and Kyle, her laughter had a sinister edge, like she was laughing at them.  In that moment my suspicions that Eva went into this game determined to exploit her autism for gain felt validated.  

As a strategy, it almost worked.  I'll give her that.

Eva may have rhapsodized about her openness re: her autism, confronting her challenges, etc.  But in the final moment, when she learned Kyle had won, she didn't look like someone pleased to have gotten so far in spite of her disability.

She looked like someone whose bullet-proof plan had just blown up in her face.

[SummerDreams]

10 hours ago, surfgirl said:

there are probably several contestants that have been on Survivor that are on the spectrum but are either non diagnosed or they chose not to reveal that to anyone.

We know on Big Brother there was a winner, Ian Terry, who never talked about it while in the game and he only revealed it later when he was again on another season of Big Brother.

Eva must have been used to people feeling sorry for her and gifting her things because of her condition but this is Survivor, you should not get the money just because you clinged on another person and manipulated his feelings to get you further in the game.

Eva get over it. You lost.

[Skooma]

On 5/22/2025 at 4:24 PM, bunnyface said:

Ditto to this.  Do they not allow them to clean up before they eat?  I cannot imagine sitting there, eating, with mud drying and cracking on my skin. Cracking and possibly falling into my food.  I don't care how hungry they are, and they aren't that hungry any more, I think I could take five minutes to clean up a bit first.  ...

But you wouldn't clean up because production does not allow them to clean up.  It's been confirmed over and over they are NOT permitted to clean-up before eating. 

Why?  I assume production thinks it makes them look like "rugged" survivors instead of weight-gaining, spoiled rotten by endless feasts contestants.

On 5/25/2025 at 4:20 AM, SummerDreams said:

Eva cry some more girl. We all know you just hate women.

I didn't see that nor did did I hear that.  I don't get that if a woman feels more comfortable hanging out with men that she is somehow evil and is cruel to other women.  No more than if a man prefers to hang out with the ladies instead of his fellow males.  But then I don't believe in segregation of the sexes.  🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️

[Chicago Redshirt]

47 minutes ago, Skooma said:

I didn't see that nor did did I hear that.  I don't get that if a woman feels more comfortable hanging out with men that she is somehow evil and is cruel to other women.  No more than if a man prefers to hang out with the ladies instead of his fellow males.  But then I don't believe in segregation of the sexes.  🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️

I don't think it was just a matter of Eva feeling more comfortable with Joe and Kyle (and Shauhin and David and Mitch) than she does with others.

IIRC, she was pretty antagonistic or at best indifferent toward Star who had just let her have an immunity idol and seems (from the edit) to be an awesome person. She seemed resentful of Mary joining the strong alliance. Even when she was on the food reward with Kamilla, it didn't seem like Eva was acting like "Kamilla's my girl."

Now was that because there's only room in her mind for one hen in the rooster house, so to speak? Or is some other dynamic in play?

For instance, was the editing slanted so as to highlight her positive interactions with the guys and minimize her positive interactions with women and her negative interactions with guys? It very well could be that a lot of warm and fuzzy moments between Eva and other women got left on the cutting room floor, as did moments of friction between Eva and men. In her Entertainment Weekly interview, she talks about having been pretty close with Mary before booting David, and she talks about how she and Kamilla talked a lot about food and hockey. I don't think that made it to the screen. 

https://ew.com/survivor-48-eva-erickson-finale-autism-episode-interview-11739635

Or does Eva's autism/past experience change how she presents or reacts to things, such that she prefers men to women for companionship? There is the notion that stereotypically men are direct and uncomplicated in their communications/emotions and stereotypically women are subtler and layered in their communications/emotions, which I could see would make one more appealing for someone with difficulty reading such cues. I'd guess as a woman in STEM and a hockey player on an otherwise male team she has probably gotten comfortable working with men and she probably had more than her fair share of negative reactions from women as a nerd and a jock. I could very easily see Eva as a victim of a number of mean girls growing up and developing an aversion to socializing with women as a result.

Or it just happenstance that the people she likes better are male and if it was Josephine and Kyla who acted the same way as Joe and Kyle she would have reacted the same way to those players? Or  are some people reading things that aren't really there to see internalized sexism as a possible motivator? 

It would just be guessing if any/all of these, or any number of factors apply.

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Table for three.

Eva should have argued her real skill: emotional manipulation.   Early graduation from college, doctorate at Brown University, fellow of the National Science Brain Trust or whatever it is ... oh, but I'm autistic and sometimes I can't control my emotions!

I'm close to someone who is autistic (Asperger's) and every day of his life  ranges between a challenge and a living hell.   He has never gone to bed at night and thought "this was a good day," while experience has taught him that hoping for a better tomorrow is a joke.   The only thing he really wants out of life is acceptance and friends.   He's managed to get his college degree (by working twice as hard as everybody else), get a job, and live a decent life but none of that makes any difference because most people don't want to interact with, let alone befriend, someone who seems a little "off."  It makes them uncomfortable, so they keep their distance.  He's been rebuffed so many times he's wary of even trying anymore.

The only times you really see autistic people featured on TV is when the networks have an opportunity to put a sweet, relatable face on autism (Eva), or a really bad one (criminals and/or people who are obsessive and lack empathy).  And in both instances, it's not really about autism.  It's about exploitation and profit.

Meanwhile, amid all the corporate virtue signaling, the autistic people who exist in the wide swath between those two extreme ends of "the spectrum" remain invisible. 

IMO Eva emotionally manipulated Joe and others, not only by playing the autism card, but the damsel card as well.    Does anyone really believe that Eva was unaware her sobs could be heard by Joe and Kyle back at camp?  Does anyone believe Eva the rocket scientist was ignorant of how a woman's sobs can work upon a man who sees himself as a protector/provider type?

IMO, when she revealed her true profession and accomplishments to Joe and Kyle, her laughter had a sinister edge, like she was laughing at them.  In that moment my suspicions that Eva went into this game determined to exploit her autism for gain felt validated.  

As a strategy, it almost worked.  I'll give her that.

Eva may have rhapsodized about her openness re: her autism, confronting her challenges, etc.  But in the final moment, when she learned Kyle had won, she didn't look like someone pleased to have gotten so far in spite of her disability.

She looked like someone whose bullet-proof plan had just blown up in her face.

I am acting under the assumption that Eva is not fully aware of emotions to play people like that as a conscious strategy. I also am under the assumption that her outbursts were genuine and largely uncontrollable for her (as opposed, say, to Bhanu from a few seasons where I thought that it was way more likely that he was faking/exaggerating things to garner sympathy and cultivate an image in his bid to win a million hearts outside the game), Since I believe her frustrations and crying are real, I believe that the last thing on her mind were "Can Joe and Kyle hear my crying?" and "If they do, hopefully they will bail me out." The way she describes that episode in the above EW interview I'll take at face value.

If she had given a supervillain speech about how she duped Joe and everyone into thinking she was a helpless little girl they needed to protect at all cost when she instead is a literal rocket scientist, I would have loved it, but I don't know if she would have gotten any more respect/love from this jury. I think it would have cost her the two votes she got from Mary and Star. 

11 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

Holy fuck, Joe all but did what I kept thinking he would do the whole season. From like the 5th episode on, I had this weird vision of him just telling the jury to vote for Eva, since her life is apparently so hard (to him, but not in actuality) that she needed the money to survive. Meanwhile his wife and kids would be at home watching him give a million dollars to her. And that's basically what he did. I'm honestly surprised he didn't build fire in her place after her melt down when practicing. 

It sounds like Joe did offer to give up his place in the F3 to make fire. Eva makes it sound like in the above EW interview like she wouldn't let him. That is something I'm not willing to take at face value, because I think for sure TPTB would have shown the "I've got this" moment and played that narrative out if it had happened. I think it is way more likely that TPTB said that Joe was not able to nullify Kyle's choice like that. I believe there was someone in a past season who won immunity and gave it up to win his way through firemaking. But that's different IMO. We were shown that Kyle vocalized the possibility of giving up his immunity, but I imagine cooler heads prevailed.

11 hours ago, Oscirus said:

The one thing that stuck out to me about Eva was how she kept talking about how the biggest thing that alot of Autism people can aspire to is marrying another autistic person. Seems like a strange thing to say unless I'm not understanding what she said.

I think what she said was that when she was diagnosed, her parents got told that because she was autistic that she likely could not aspire to have a job or normal relationships and that the best she could aspire to would be marrying another autistic person. But I freely admit I could be misremembering as well.

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, surfgirl said:

@tinkerbell Your 'sob story' comment brings up a really interesting and valid point about this season. As others have said, there are probably several contestants that have been on Survivor that are on the spectrum but are either non diagnosed or they chose not to reveal that to anyone.

In 48 alone we had Mitch - who has a stammer so bad that I'm sure it could be medically be considered a disability. And you have Eva who is on the spectrum though she is very high functioning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember Mitch using his stammer as a key identifying component of who he is as a person. And I had so much empathy for him because communicating with him must be very difficult because it takes a lot for him to express himself. Yet he seems like a nice guy, has clearly is in great physical shape, smart, funny, and he seems like he does the best he can in life.

Compare him to Eva, who presented herself from Day One as 'I'm the first ever autistic player on Survivor', and used that as her main selling point in her FTC speech to the jury. OTOH, Evea presents herself as wanting to be on Life's playing field just like anybody else, and not be treated differently, and yet she simultaneously seems to want and tlbe entitled to special treatment because she's autistic. I don't think one can have it both ways. Either you get special, preferential treatment- like producers handing you advantages throughout the game (not just advantages but food in almost every reward. Is it possible she had to eat often if she's on certain meds and that's why she went on every reward, or was that just a coincidence?) - or you get no preferential treatment, period. I'd like to think many viewers were turned off by her game play because we were indeed treating her like everyone else, I know I was. And in that regard she appeared cocky, entitled, anti her fellow female contestants, etc. So we didn't care for her and didn't root for her to win.

Mitch, OTOH, wasn't a great player but I never disliked him because he wasn't mean or entitled, egotistical, etc.

Then there's Joe, who also had his own sob story - poor me, I'm just a Lil old fire captain who needs to win a million dollars for my kids. Firstly, fire capatains make very good salaries and have pensions and likely retire fairly early in life. Secondly, having kids does not mean everyone else should somehow feel sorry for you and help you win a million dollars. Your kids can, yanno, go to school or learn a trade, and create careers and earn their own living. And why on earth did we need to know about the demise of Joe's sister in the beginning of the season? So we'd feel sympathy for Joe. That's gross, using a tragedy like that to win money.

As I'm writing this all out I think I'm really starting to dislike this show fir the level of manipulation it sinks to now. Hiw about let's go back to Old Era Survivor, where folks have to slog through a longer season with more people and really earn that money on their own merits. I honestly don't want any more back stories going forward. Just show me how you can play this game.

I am 99 percent sure if Mitch had made it to the FTC, at least part of his pitch to the jury would have been about how he had difficulties in life with his stammer, and how it made it difficult to navigate the game, and how he managed to overcome it and the shyness it caused to do well in the game, how he wanted t be a role model for all the stutterers out there, etc. I think there must have been at least one confessional from him along those lines. 

I think there are a couple of differences between Mitch's stammer and Eva's autism that should be mentioned. Mitch's stammer is upfront and unavoidable. He simply cannot present as not having one, so there would be no need for him to emphasize that he has one. Whereas Eva can present as neurotypical and tried to for as long as she could. Having a stammer is more socially acceptable than autism, so there's less need to be an ambassador for stammerers. One can't in the abstract take advantage of Mitch's stammer (I assume) the way someone could take advantage of Eva's autism if someone was so inclined.

I long for a contestant who is even in private "Man, your kids don't make you special. Your sob story doesn't make you special." Someone who is willing to disrupt the Survivor-as-replacement-for-Jeff's-failed-talk-show thing that they've been doing and is just like, "I just want to win a million dollars."

[Chicago Redshirt]

19 hours ago, surfgirl said:

Has anyone here been reading the feedback on the finale in other places? I have, and most seem to echo what we've talked about here. I find that interesting because I've seen a couple of videos where Eva is really pissed off that anyone would think anyone out there helped her, and she maintains that she wss 'a huge threat', her words, not mine. I can't believe how much the producers tried to game their own game by not showing us so much alleged stuff behind the scenes. We could not form any other opinion other than yelling at our TVs each week, "why haven't you voted off Joe and Eva yet ffs?!?" But it seems like nobody on the jury felt they were an actual FTC threat, which means we didn't see a lot of conversations going on. And that pisses me off. If I'm going to take time out of my life to watch this show, I don't want Peachy and Co. to manipulate what I'm seeing, do you?!?

Also, it really annoyed me when Kyke was revealing to the jury what he did for a living and then Eva interrupted his answer to gloat at the jury, "You guys think that's impressive, wait til you hear what I do!" Firstly, has another FTC contestant ever interrupted another contestant's answer before? Because I found that very jarring and bad Survivor etiquette, if you will. And also, after Eva was bragging about what she really did,  I wish someone on the jury had said, "Well Eva, since you interrupted Kyle's answer, and told us what you really do, can you tell us now how you were able to lie to Joe, your closest ally in the game, for this entire time, even though truth was one of thrbpillars of your alliances game play? Can you walk us through how you pulled that off?" I'd like to hear her answer since she was on Team Truth, and I'd have liked to see Joe's face while she was explaining how she lied to him the entire time. Because truth seemed like something very important that alliance. 

And speaking of Joe, the more I read about Joe and the more I remember his game play, while he did very well in physical challenges, it seemed from what we saw him saying several times, that he was more concerned with playing with good ethics so that his children would be proud of the game he played. Not to be dismissive, but my guess is his kids might have preferred him to win a million dollars instead? Also, this weird obsession a lot of folks on TV, and especially on Survivor, have with their family being proud of them just seems very self obsessed and sad. I mean, if my loved one is going on this show, I'd honestly be more concerned about their health and can they hack it out there, but just being on the show - at least to me - does not buy one pride from their loved ones. Many times I wonder why the hell someone is out there when they say they have a loved one dying at home. So you decided to not spend as much at time with them as possible and instead come out to play a game of lying and deciet to hopefully win money? Instead of eeking out every moment you could with your loved one? And I feel similarly about Joe. If he feels his kids are not proud of him, pre show, I just don't see how going on a show like this and presenting yourself as this highly ethical guy, to the point where you're willing to throw your game bc your closest ally is on the spectrum, how does that make your kids feel more pride in their dad? To see that the person you were willing to throw the game for had duped you the entire time lying to you about what they did? It's just weird how obsessed some folks are with proving themselves to their own children.  Just be you, ffs.

Unfortunately, it is unavoidable that Peachy and Co. manipulate what we are seeing. We just have to trust that they do so in an entertaining, reasonable and fair way. Which it looks like they did not in this case.

There (it sounds like) must have been conversations about how Joe and Eva were a far lower threat than they saw themselves to be and than were pitched to the audience. There had to be some level of decision-making about why Kyle/Kamilla didn't oust Joe, and why the underdogs never coalesced an alliance to get rid of Joe or Eva, or try to flush her idol. There must have been some talk about Kyle and Kamilla individually as threats who needed to be dealt with and contingency plans for them. I don't think we saw any of that sort of stuff.

To be fair to TPTB, the challenge is to present narratives that don't make it super obvious who the winner is going to be and yet don't make it seem like it comes from left field. If things are too predictable, it's boring. If things are too unpredictable, it causes the reaction many of us are having now where we feel like we were misled. 

I'm sure in the 46 previous Tribals, some contestants have interrupted the answers of others, but none specifically come to mind.

Obviously Joe's kids are likely proud of him for many reasons. It's that he hopes that they would be more proud of him for playing a tough game with integrity. I too agree that the kids might be like "that integrity and $6 will get you a drink at Starbucks." But there is something to be said for teaching the lesson that it's better to lose with integrity than to win by acting dubiously. 

[tinkerbell]

17 hours ago, surfgirl said:

n 48 alone we had Mitch - who has a stammer so bad that I'm sure it could be medically be considered a disability. And you have Eva who is on the spectrum though she is very high functioning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I never remember Mitch using his stammer as a key identifying component of who he is as a person. And I had so much empathy for him because communicating with him must be very difficult because it takes a lot for him to express himself. Yet he seems like a nice guy, has clearly is in great physical shape, smart, funny, and he seems like he does the best he can in life.

Yes, and importantly, Mitch never singled out another player to help him communicate. If I recall correctly, Mitch talked about his stammer and asked for people to be patient.

9 hours ago, millennium said:

MO Eva emotionally manipulated Joe and others, not only by playing the autism card, but the damsel card as well.    Does anyone really believe that Eva was unaware her sobs could be heard by Joe and Kyle back at camp?  Does anyone believe Eva the rocket scientist was ignorant of how a woman's sobs can work upon a man who sees himself as a protector/provider type?

Eva's emotional manipulation started very early on.  She confided in Joe about her autism, and her anxiety, and then instructed him on how he could help her if she got overwhelmed. She even phrased it as choosing him to confide in because she trusted him, Joe said that his experience as a father made him inclined to be the person Eva could turn to for help.  Eva chose a relative stranger, praised him as trustworthy, and asked him to hold her hands if he saw she was getting anxious.  All of that had the effect of identifying herself as a "special needs" player who needed assistance, and appealed to Joe's paternal instincts. 

 

9 hours ago, millennium said:

IMO, when she revealed her true profession and accomplishments to Joe and Kyle, her laughter had a sinister edge, like she was laughing at them.  In that moment my suspicions that Eva went into this game determined to exploit her autism for gain felt validated. 

Yes, I saw that too.  I also thought her "reveal" speech was rehearsed, as she delivered it exactly the same both times - to Joe and Kyle (and Kamilla?)  and then at the tribal council. And it did have that "gotcha!" feeling - like calling out others for underestimating her due to her autism, when that is not at all what happened - she pretty much expected special treatment AND expected some sort of shock for all she has accomplished .

I posted this earlier.  I would have a lot more respect for Eva if, instead of asking for help and literal hand-holding, she had talked about her autism, let the others know how she copes with being overwhelmed. That way if she was doing some counting, reciting, or other strategies, they would know to leave her be. They can care about her and be compassionate without taking on the responsibility of being her coping strategy. 

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, surfgirl said:

Mitch, OTOH, wasn't a great player but I never disliked him because he wasn't mean or entitled, egotistical, etc.

Mitch seems like a nice guy but he was not a great player. He had more than one opportunity to make a move that would further his game and passed each time. You can argue there were risks but that's what it takes to make it further than fifth place. 

18 hours ago, surfgirl said:

Secondly, having kids does not mean everyone else should somehow feel sorry for you and help you win a million dollars.

Having kids doesn't tug at my heartstrings either. Even roaches breed. It's not a miracle.

[surfgirl]

19 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I long for a contestant who is even in private "Man, your kids don't make you special. Your sob story doesn't make you special." Someone who is willing to disrupt the Survivor-as-replacement-for-Jeff's-failed-talk-show thing that they've been doing and is just like, "I just want to win a million dollars."

I ditto this, and OG Survivor gave us more of this type of player. In fact, I'd like to not even know what they do in real life. Just show me rhe game play.

18 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But there is something to be said for teaching the lesson that it's better to lose with integrity than to win by acting dubiously. 

But did Joe lose 'with integrity'? Because to me ir felt more like he got duped- both by his #1 partner Eva, and by Kyle. I don't see that as integrity, I see it as he got suckered in by his integrity quest and his 'dad complex', if you will. But I know perception is sometimes a YMMV thing, of course!

On 5/25/2025 at 5:39 AM, KittyKat425 said:

I will be joining you in hell. Your comment is like you read my mind.

On 5/25/2025 at 11:22 PM, millennium said:

Table for three.

Make that a table for four please, I'll bring extra handbaskets.

Edited May 27 by surfgirl

[Oscirus]

I feel like the eva confession behind kyles was kinda killed by her hyping it up. Something to the effect of if you think kyle being a lawyer impresses you wait till you hear about me. Then it was something eh.

Also, neither one of them answered Star's question. That's where the Shahin move should've actually been addressed.

What's with people hiding being a lawyer. Admittedly I'm not up on the new era of survivor but are people being booted because they're lawyers?

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

What's with people hiding being a lawyer. Admittedly I'm not up on the new era of survivor but are people being booted because they're lawyers?

I think there's a reason for contestants to worry that having their identities as lawyers known will potentially hurt their game on a number of possible grounds:

1. Lawyers are stereotyped to be conniving, manipulative, unethical, etc. So it would be easier for other contestants to paint that such a person should be booted out.

2. Lawyers are stereotyped to be rich. So the implicit notion would be a jury would not give $1 million to someone who is already well-to-do or has the potential to be.

3. Lawyers are often thought of as people who know how to make a persuasive argument to a judge or jury. So being seen as such might raise the threat level of a contestant since you don't want to go up against such a person in the FTC. 

Of course, these stereotypes are often going to be untrue and are often baseless. Most attorneys don't try cases and so are not any more polished  addressing a group of people than anybody else, and even among attorneys who try cases many aren't going to be giving Perry Mason energy.

Another element is that it has happened so frequently now I think that people might just be duplicating that strategy. Pretty much any season in the new era has at least one lawyer or law student cast. About half the time they have pretended to be in some other profession.

4 hours ago, surfgirl said:

But did Joe lose 'with integrity'? Because to me ir felt more like he got duped- both by his #1 partner Eva, and by Kyle. I don't see that as integrity, I see it as he got suckered in by his integrity quest and his 'dad complex', if you will. But I know perception is sometimes a YMMV thing, of course!

I totally agree that it is a mileage may vary thing. I am sure Joe would sprain his arm patting himself on the back about the honorable game he thinks he played. I think that if you could read their minds, David and Shauhin might feel that Joe went back on his word or acted with less-than-honor by blindsiding them.

It depends on what one thinks the parameters were on integrity. I don't think that Joe ever made an explicit promise that he broke, told a lie to anyone, schemed against his allies. But one could certainly argue that a certain amount of honor would require saying "David, I can't trust you any more. It's going to be you." Or "Shauhin, I'm hearing you showed Kamilla an idol and are flipping. So I'm siding with them to vote you out." Yes, particularly in the context of Survivor, there's probably a thin line between honor and stupidity.

I think the fact that Joe was duped in some senses has nothing to do with his playing with honor. The sneakiest, most unethical double-crossers have (I'm sure) fallen prey to other people's tactics. 

I think in other respects, he was probably easier to dupe because he bought into the play with honor theme wholesale. The David boot largely happened IIRC because David made the mistake of accusing Joe of going back on his word. If Joe hadn't been enraged at the notion that someone dare attack his integrity in a game based on deception, they might have voted Kamilla back then instead of David and the whole game would have changed. I have the feeling that David would have worked to boot Joe or Eva soon as their usefulness came to an end, around F6. David also probably would have won some of those immunity challenges. If it was the same F3, Kyle would no longer have one of his greatest talking points about how he and Kamilla were this great secret alliance who orchestrated the Shauhin and David boots.  

I think specifically when it came to the FTC, a more cutthroat Joe could have tried to work harder to convince the jury that he truly deserved the million over Eva. I think the attitude he had was basically winning is less important than putting forth the "right/honorable" arguments. I truly believe that if someone appeared to Joe and said "I've travelled the multiverse and I know that you can win this by trash-talking Eva and saying how you are so much better than her" or "I know you can win this by doing a face-heel turn and saying playing with honor was all a facade" that he wouldn't be the least bit tempted. Maybe that's giving him more credit than he deserves. Whereas Eva and Kyle would be "So I don't owe you a soul or anything? Where do I sign up?"

In any case, it is easy to play a game with honor when you and your allies are never in meaningful jeopardy. If/when he plays again, if his back is against the wall, I could see honor fly out the window. Or maybe that's me wanting him dragged into the gutter with the rest of us.

[KittyKat425]

16 hours ago, millennium said:

Table for three.

Eva should have argued her real skill: emotional manipulation.   Early graduation from college, doctorate at Brown University, fellow of the National Science Brain Trust or whatever it is ... oh, but I'm autistic and sometimes I can't control my emotions!

I'm close to someone who is autistic (Asperger's) and every day of his life  ranges between a challenge and a living hell.   He has never gone to bed at night and thought "this was a good day," while experience has taught him that hoping for a better tomorrow is a joke.   The only thing he really wants out of life is acceptance and friends.   He's managed to get his college degree (by working twice as hard as everybody else), get a job, and live a decent life but none of that makes any difference because most people don't want to interact with, let alone befriend, someone who seems a little "off."  It makes them uncomfortable, so they keep their distance.  He's been rebuffed so many times he's wary of even trying anymore.

The only times you really see autistic people featured on TV is when the networks have an opportunity to put a sweet, relatable face on autism (Eva), or a really bad one (criminals and/or people who are obsessive and lack empathy).  And in both instances, it's not really about autism.  It's about exploitation and profit.

Meanwhile, amid all the corporate virtue signaling, the autistic people who exist in the wide swath between those two extreme ends of "the spectrum" remain invisible. 

IMO Eva emotionally manipulated Joe and others, not only by playing the autism card, but the damsel card as well.    Does anyone really believe that Eva was unaware her sobs could be heard by Joe and Kyle back at camp?  Does anyone believe Eva the rocket scientist was ignorant of how a woman's sobs can work upon a man who sees himself as a protector/provider type?

IMO, when she revealed her true profession and accomplishments to Joe and Kyle, her laughter had a sinister edge, like she was laughing at them.  In that moment my suspicions that Eva went into this game determined to exploit her autism for gain felt validated.  

As a strategy, it almost worked.  I'll give her that.

Eva may have rhapsodized about her openness re: her autism, confronting her challenges, etc.  But in the final moment, when she learned Kyle had won, she didn't look like someone pleased to have gotten so far in spite of her disability.

She looked like someone whose bullet-proof plan had just blown up in her face.

I re-wound the to the exact spot that she realized that Kyle took away her moment of triumph telling the jury of her huge, strategic move to get rid of Shauhin and when her mouth dropped when Kyle got a second then a third vote. I watched both several times during my morning coffee the next morning. It was a happy moment for me.

[kav]

14 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It sounds like Joe did offer to give up his place in the F3 to make fire. Eva makes it sound like in the above EW interview like she wouldn't let him. That is something I'm not willing to take at face value, because I think for sure TPTB would have shown the "I've got this" moment and played that narrative out if it had happened.

They did show Joe saying something along the lines saying that he would do it and Eva said no.  Kyle also offered.  Right before the fire started Joe asked one last time and Eva said something like "I got it". (not shown on show)

Edited May 27 by kav

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, kav said:

They did show Joe saying something along the lines saying that he would do it and Eva said no.  Kyle also offered.  Right before the fire started Joe asked one last time and Eva said something like "I got it". (not shown on show)

I went back to watch the relevant sections of the finale.

The first thing we see after Joe gets Eva calmed down is Joe saying "Please let me do this."

Eva responds, "No. No. Joe, this is my thing. I have to do it. I'm going to get it."

Joe responds, "Please."

Eva: "No. No. I'm going to do it."

Joe: "OK"

Eva: "I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I know that I can."

Then we have Eva in a confessional saying that Joe is the most selfless human being, that he volunteered to step in to do the fire challenge, but she said no.

We then go to Joe saying essentially "Well can I work with you to teach you how to build a fire and sit with you?"

What we don't explicitly see is Joe making the offer of "Eva, I'm willing to give up my spot in the F3 and make fire for you. This is too stressful for you" or something along those lines. We are meant to assume that Joe made such an offer based on the confessionals from both of them surrounding the interaction.

But the "this" in "Please let me do this" could be a whole range of things besides stepping in to do fire: calling in professional help for Eva, telling the producers Eva's too stressed out, having any of her meds checked, seeing if the challenge could be postponed, seeing if there can be a reasonable accommodation for her, etc. etc. 

My question is, why wouldn't they shown Joe making that offer explicitly if that's how it went down? Certainly the cameras would have caught it. 

To me, the simplest explanation is: It didn't go down the way TPTB want us to think that it went down, there was no actual offer by Joe to make fire, and the narrative of Selfless Joe and Brave Eva in reality played out differently. Again, maybe I'm to be fitted for a tinfoil hat here, but that's where I land.

Kyle mused if it was right to make Eva go to fire and suggested to Joe he check on her. He talked in a confessional about how there are layers and how it was a tougher decision than he thought, and that he was willing to put himself in firemaking. We were shown him starting to practice firemaking. But again, we weren't showing him actually offering to decline immunity so he could make fire. We weren't shown him having a conversation with Eva after she started having firemaking trouble.

There was precedent for someone winning that final immunity and doing firemaking instead IIRC; Chris in S37 did it and went on to win, the Internet tells me. I don't think there has been precedent for someone being brought to the FTC and being able to decline. 

I suspect that Kyle knew he wasn't about to step into firemaking unless it became clear to him that Eva could not beat Kamilla. He figured that he couldn't win vs. Kamilla at F3 (or at least, would have a rougher path than versus Joe/Eva) and would only give up his guaranteed spot if it made sense for his game. I suspect that Kyle covered that pragmatic mindset up with a little humanitarian gloss of potentially benefitting Eva.

I tend to think it would be messed up if the winner of that final immunity could pick someone to go to the F3 and that person could decline. 

Just before the challenge began, Eva talked about how when she practiced they were using coconuts and a different set up than the one they had there, so she was nervous. Both Joe and Kamilla told her "You've got this."

[blackwing]

Eva telling people to vote for her because she has autism and they would make history if they voted for her really showed how much she misread what people thought of her.  She said at least one point during the game that she cannot read others very well.  This proved it.  We as viewers at home were deceived by Jeffy and the editing, because it is evident that like Eva, many viewers at home perceived that Joe and Eva were huge threats and would just run away with the game if they made it to the end.

It was very reminiscent of Plastic Surgery Gone Wrong Sue, whose main pitch at her FTC was "vote for me and you will be part of history in voting for the oldest woman winner ever".

On 5/25/2025 at 12:26 PM, surfgirl said:

Also, it really annoyed me when Kyke was revealing to the jury what he did for a living and then Eva interrupted his answer to gloat at the jury, "You guys think that's impressive, wait til you hear what I do!" Firstly, has another FTC contestant ever interrupted another contestant's answer before? Because I found that very jarring and bad Survivor etiquette, if you will. And also, after Eva was bragging about what she really did,  I wish someone on the jury had said, "Well Eva, since you interrupted Kyle's answer, and told us what you really do, can you tell us now how you were able to lie to Joe, your closest ally in the game, for this entire time, even though truth was one of thrbpillars of your alliances game play? Can you walk us through how you pulled that off?" I'd like to hear her answer since she was on Team Truth, and I'd have liked to see Joe's face while she was explaining how she lied to him the entire time. Because truth seemed like something very important that alliance. 

This.  It was super annoying.  And as you said, I don't recall other FTCs where a question was directed to one contestant and another contestant interrupted to try and hijack the question.

It was also annoying that we heard her telling Joe and Kyle listing off all of her accomplishments, and then we got the exact same list in FTC for the jury.  Like it was said upthread, it was clearly rehearsed for FTC in advance and she was just waiting for the opportunity to not-so-humble brag.

13 hours ago, kav said:

They did show Joe saying something along the lines saying that he would do it and Eva said no.  Kyle also offered.  Right before the fire started Joe asked one last time and Eva said something like "I got it". (not shown on show)

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I went back to watch the relevant sections of the finale.

The first thing we see after Joe gets Eva calmed down is Joe saying "Please let me do this."

Eva responds, "No. No. Joe, this is my thing. I have to do it. I'm going to get it."

Joe responds, "Please."

Eva: "No. No. I'm going to do it."

Joe: "OK"

Eva: "I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I know that I can."

Then we have Eva in a confessional saying that Joe is the most selfless human being, that he volunteered to step in to do the fire challenge, but she said no.

We then go to Joe saying essentially "Well can I work with you to teach you how to build a fire and sit with you?"

What we don't explicitly see is Joe making the offer of "Eva, I'm willing to give up my spot in the F3 and make fire for you. This is too stressful for you" or something along those lines. We are meant to assume that Joe made such an offer based on the confessionals from both of them surrounding the interaction.

But the "this" in "Please let me do this" could be a whole range of things besides stepping in to do fire: calling in professional help for Eva, telling the producers Eva's too stressed out, having any of her meds checked, seeing if the challenge could be postponed, seeing if there can be a reasonable accommodation for her, etc. etc. 

My question is, why wouldn't they shown Joe making that offer explicitly if that's how it went down? Certainly the cameras would have caught it. 

To me, the simplest explanation is: It didn't go down the way TPTB want us to think that it went down, there was no actual offer by Joe to make fire, and the narrative of Selfless Joe and Brave Eva in reality played out differently. Again, maybe I'm to be fitted for a tinfoil hat here, but that's where I land.

Kyle mused if it was right to make Eva go to fire and suggested to Joe he check on her. He talked in a confessional about how there are layers and how it was a tougher decision than he thought, and that he was willing to put himself in firemaking. We were shown him starting to practice firemaking. But again, we weren't showing him actually offering to decline immunity so he could make fire. We weren't shown him having a conversation with Eva after she started having firemaking trouble.

There was precedent for someone winning that final immunity and doing firemaking instead IIRC; Chris in S37 did it and went on to win, the Internet tells me. I don't think there has been precedent for someone being brought to the FTC and being able to decline. 

Agree with Chicago Redshirt.  We were never shown Joe making an explicit offer.  We were never shown Joe telling Kyle to take Eva to Final 3 instead of him.  We were also never shown Kyle offering to take Eva to Final 3 or to put himself in her place for the fire.  We were shown Kyle thinking about it, but clearly he never offered to give up his immunity.  I think once Kyle thought about it, he wasn't seriously going to give up his immunity.

Eva of course wanted to present the whole thing as "even though I'm autistic, I won't let anyone take care of me, I am strong and I can do this".  Then ironically was breaking down in tears and having a near-panic attack when her flame was starting to die.  It says a lot that her direct competitor Kamilla was encouraging her.

Chris Underwood won the Final 4 immunity but then put himself into the firemaking because he had spent 90% of the game on Exile Island, and he knew that he needed to do something to impress the jury if he was going to have any shot at winning.

[tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Eva of course wanted to present the whole thing as "even though I'm autistic, I won't let anyone take care of me, I am strong and I can do this".  Then ironically was breaking down in tears and having a near-panic attack when her flame was starting to die.  It says a lot that her direct competitor Kamilla was encouraging her.

Interesting.  I think about what would have happened if Eva had won. The message she thought she was expressing was, "I'm a strong woman who happens to have autism and I was the best player."  But, the message that would have come across was more like,"I got other players to care more about me than about their own game. They helped me manage my anxiety, made sure I got enough food, and protected me from being criticized or voted off."

She thought her sob story and list of accomplishments would win over the jury, and she would be the obvious winner. When in reality, her "poor autistic girl who relies on others to manage her anxiety" and "strong independent woman who has achieved so much at a young age," left jurors confused about who she really is.

Edited May 27 by tinkerbell

[SummerDreams]

16 hours ago, kav said:

ight before the fire started Joe asked one last time and Eva said something like "I got it". (not shown on show)

And how do you know that? Lol

[Oscirus]

Unless Eva's lying in interviews, she said both Kyle and Joe offered to go to fire and she shut them both down. 

The more I think about it the more I think that Eva did have a pretty decent social game. I doubt she'd get to go on so many rewards that she didnt win if she was annoying. 

Joe has to be the only one not really playing the game. Even eva had secret alliances with both Mary and Star. Meanwhile, Joe is pretty much just winning challenges and relying on the information given to him godfather style. Pretty easy to play a honorable game under those conditions. 

[bankerchick]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Even eva had secret alliances with both Mary and Star.

Eva had a secret alliance with Star?  Was it so secret even Eva didn't know about it?  Is that why she didn't think she needed to bother thanking Star for the idol or trying to protect her when her name was thrown out, or for that matter, not proactively throwing Star's name out there before pretty much every tribal council?  With alliances like this.................

[fishcakes]

My overall take on Eva is that she's not a very nice person, but that she didn't try to exploit her autism. I think the producers did that and they gave her help both covert and overt, but it ended up backfiring and making viewers dislike her more than they would just based on her personality and actions during the game. 

Although she did talk about being autistic during FTC, I try to remember that we saw maybe 20 minutes of a two- or three-hour session and that it's not exactly something she can ever ignore. I feel like the showrunners crafted the narrative they thought we wanted to see, but they badly miscalculated and actually ended up doing Eva a disservice by making it look like she could not play the game unassisted, thus making her smugness and sense of entitlement -- which have nothing to do with her neurodivergence -- more prominent and even less justified.

None of which is to say I like Eva. I do not. I think she was pretty shitty to some of her tribemates, I didn't want her to win, and I could go through all the things I dislike about her, but the season's over, and I can only care about this for so long. We have a whole new crop of boneheads coming up in season 49, and I need to rest so I'll be ready to crack on their dumb asses this fall. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Unless Eva's lying in interviews, she said both Kyle and Joe offered to go to fire and she shut them both down. 

The more I think about it the more I think that Eva did have a pretty decent social game. I doubt she'd get to go on so many rewards that she didnt win if she was annoying. 

Joe has to be the only one not really playing the game. Even eva had secret alliances with both Mary and Star. Meanwhile, Joe is pretty much just winning challenges and relying on the information given to him godfather style. Pretty easy to play a honorable game under those conditions. 

Eva doesn't have to be lying to go around saying that Joe and Kyle both offered to go to fire and she shut them both down. (Although she could be).

Eva could be misunderstanding the situation.

Eva could be exaggerating.

Eva could be acting on bad information she got from the producers or even Kyle/Joe.

Again, if  Kyle or Joe explicitly told her "I will take your place in the fire making challenge," I would think that there would have been footage of it and TPTB would show that footage. The fact that they didn't IMO speaks volumes.

In terms of taking her on rewards, players could have figured it's better to indulge Eva by taking her on the rewards than to have her go into a mental health meltdown due to hunger or feeling ostracized. She literally went on every food reward possible except the letters from home and she claims she turned that one down because the letters from home didn't mean all that much to her.

While I don't disagree it's pretty easy to play an "honorable" game when no one's challenging you, let alone threatening you, I don't think Eva had alliances with Mary or Star. Or at least, there was nothing shown that she did, and nothing in her voting or gameplay suggested that she saw Star as anything more than someone who gave her an idol and nothing welcoming Mary to the "Strong Six." I think it's unfair to characterize what Joe did as "not really playing the game." By definition, anything one does on "Survivor" is playing the game. It's just a question of how effective or impressive the gameplay is. Under different circumstances or argued more forcefully/clearly, Joe's gameplay might have been impressive enough to get him $1 million.

[millennium]

23 hours ago, KittyKat425 said:

I re-wound the to the exact spot that she realized that Kyle took away her moment of triumph telling the jury of her huge, strategic move to get rid of Shauhin and when her mouth dropped when Kyle got a second then a third vote.

I call that "Eva Destruction"

[kav]

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

We were shown Kyle thinking about it, but clearly he never offered to give up his immunity.

Except he was going to offer  to give up his immunity, but when he went up to Eva, before he could even say it, Eva said something like, "No. I am going to do it". (Exit press from both Eva and Kyle)

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think once Kyle thought about it, he wasn't seriously going to give up his immunity.

If that was true, he would not have gone up to Eva like he said he did, so I believe this is untrue.

7 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

And how do you know that? Lol

Exit press from RHAP from Joe and Eva and Kyle.

[Oscirus]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Eva doesn't have to be lying to go around saying that Joe and Kyle both offered to go to fire and she shut them both down. (Although she could be).

Eva could be misunderstanding the situation.

Eva could be exaggerating.

Eva could be acting on bad information she got from the producers or even Kyle/Joe.

Again, if  Kyle or Joe explicitly told her "I will take your place in the fire making challenge," I would think that there would have been footage of it and TPTB would show that footage. The fact that they didn't IMO speaks volumes.

In terms of taking her on rewards, players could have figured it's better to indulge Eva by taking her on the rewards than to have her go into a mental health meltdown due to hunger or feeling ostracized. She literally went on every food reward possible except the letters from home and she claims she turned that one down because the letters from home didn't mean all that much to her.

While I don't disagree it's pretty easy to play an "honorable" game when no one's challenging you, let alone threatening you, I don't think Eva had alliances with Mary or Star. Or at least, there was nothing shown that she did, and nothing in her voting or gameplay suggested that she saw Star as anything more than someone who gave her an idol and nothing welcoming Mary to the "Strong Six." I think it's unfair to characterize what Joe did as "not really playing the game." By definition, anything one does on "Survivor" is playing the game. It's just a question of how effective or impressive the gameplay is. Under different circumstances or argued more forcefully/clearly, Joe's gameplay might have been impressive enough to get him $1 million.

Kamilla also verified it in her interview. She even said that she hoped Eva would take Kyle up on his offer. I assume they didn't show Kyle's offer because it doesn't fit in the father-daughter relationship storyline between Eva and Joe. That being said, I believe the reasons you stated in a previous post for making their offers was correct.

Perhaps I overstated by saying alliance. More like a working relationship. In interviews, Eva said she was the closest person to Mary on the island and that she should've fought harder for her not to be booted. Star was bringing her information, which is why Mitch didn't want to work with Star.

Fair enough, I shouldn't have used that phrase. Let me try to rephrase: It's easy to stay honorable when you're relying on challenge prowess and staying in the majority alliance while your "minions" do all the dirty work. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I will say it again for the cheap seats in the back: Just because someone says something in an interview doesn't necessarily mean that it is so. Particularly in the context of Survivor where lying is a fundamental part of most people's games. where people are very image conscious and where non-disclosure agreements are in play.

People in general and on and off Survivor tell real lies, lies of omission, white lies (and sometimes statistics). People can exaggerate. People can misunderstand. People can innocently parrot lies or misinformation that others feed them. People can delude themselves. People can say things that are factually true but are misleading (such as "I'm playing against some of the best to ever play Survivor" -- technically true that they are some of the best X players to play, where X is the total number of players in the game's history. Misleading because it's doubtful that the players from a given non-All Star season would match up to what we think of as the best 20 players over its 48 seasons). 

To test what is or may be true, it's best to compare what is said with what is objectively true and see what fits and what doesn't.

In this particular case, I see a disconnect: there is no footage of Joe or Kyle clearly and directly offering to take Eva's place in firemaking, objective footage that no doubt would be captured if those actions took place and included in the presentation by editors who are competent. It is after all, a pivotal moment in the game. In a world where this supposedly happened not just once, but multiple times, why would that be?

Trying to devil's advocate my own question, the best I can come up with is that showing the exchanges would somehow undermine the Selfless Joe and Brave Eva narrative that they were creating by broadcasting things the way they selectively edited it. Like if Joe were like, "Eva, you useless whining child, I'm so tired of hearing your crying all the other side of camp that I'm willing to do fire for you if it'll shut you up. I'm going to call you 'Backpack' because I'll just continue to carry your autistic ass like I've done throughout the game. Hop on my magnificent milk-fueled shoulders."

Not only does that seem wildly improbable because it's out of character for Joe, but also the editing monkeys could just snip out the bad parts and present it as "I'm willing to do fire for you."

:I want to add: If one believes that multiple times Kyle and Joe said they were willing to put their games at risk at the near-climax of the show for the sake of Eva's game/mental health/etc., then it seems to me one can't plausibly argue that Eva wasn't coddled/babysat/whatever words you might want to use in that vein. That would be an extraordinary measure. Even if Eva rejected multiple offers to sweep her in the F3, the notion that the offers would have been made is pretty much irrefutable evidence of her being treated with kid gloves at the near-apex of the game, when people should be the most cutthroat. 

Also, if we are in the world where one or more offers were made to scoot Eva into the FTC and she declined, it seems to me that it wasn't just the "I want to prove it for myself and the autistic community" that would have motivated her to decline the offer. I suspect that she would know that getting gifted a FTC position like that would have gutted any chance of winning a million. If Joe did it and won, he now not only has more challenge wins than her, not only has the same strategy throughout the game as her, but also a flashy firemaking at the end and can boast on how/why he was willing to step into firemaking because of his love for Eva. Kyle would be in a similar boat. And if Kamilla won, she could brag that she was such a scary threat that they had to bring in a ringer to help try to beat her and failed.

Edited May 28 by Chicago Redshirt

[blackwing]

 

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In this particular case, I see a disconnect: there is no footage of Joe or Kyle clearly and directly offering to take Eva's place in firemaking, objective footage that no doubt would be captured if those actions took place and included i the presentation by editors who are competent. It is after all, a pivotal moment in the game. In a world where this supposedly happened not just once, but multiple times, why would that be?

Trying to devil's advocate my own question, the best I can come up with is that showing the exchanges would somehow undermine the Selfless Joe and Brave Eva narrative that they were creating by broadcasting things the way they selectively edited it. Like if Joe were like, "Eva, you useless whining child, I'm so tired of hearing your crying all the other side of camp that I'm willing to do fire for you if it'll shut you up. I'm going to call you 'Backpack' because I'll just continue to carry your autistic ass like I've done throughout the game. Hop on my magnificent milk-fueled shoulders."

Not only does that seem wildly improbable because it's out of character for Joe, but also the editing monkeys could just snip out the bad parts and present it as "I'm willing to do fire for you."

:I want to add: If one believes that multiple times Kyle and Joe said they were willing to put their games at risk fat the near-climax of the show or the sake of Eva's game/mental health/etc., then it seems to me one can't plausibly argue that Eva wasn't coddled/babysat/whatever words you might want to use in that vein. That would be an extraordinary measure. Even if Eva rejected multiple offers to sweep her in the F3, the notion that the offers would have been made is pretty much irrefutable evidence of her being treated with kid gloves at the near-apex of the game, when people should be the most cutthroat. 

I agree.  If both Kyle and Joe explicitly offered to take Eva's place in the firemaking and she adamantly declined, where is the footage?  There are cameramen all over the place.  Why wouldn't such footage have made it onto the show?  It would have added to the "Eva is SUCH a strong woman" story that the producers were trying to portray.  Or were they worried that, as said above, that it actually makes her look weaker because both Joe and Kyle in fact did give her special treatment and think that she needed babysitting and coddling?

 

I don't think anything is ever going to top Edgardo, but this moment here, when Jeffy announces that Kyle has received a second vote, comes in a close second:

Up until this point, she really did seem to think she had it in the bag.  Then it was "whaaaaaaaattttt?!?!?!  How is this even possible?  Doesn't anyone want to make history?!?"  Hahahahaha.

Edited May 28 by blackwing

[Chicago Redshirt]

^Ask for a screenshot and ye shall receive.

Thank you. Although now I'm sure my officemates think I'm a lunatic for laughing out loud as long as I did.

I will take my handbasket to hell in blue, with gray trim, please.

[surfgirl]

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I will take my handbasket to hell in blue, with gray trim, please.

Your order has been noted: Reservation for Table of 5, extra handbasket in blue with gray trim.

Hell and handbaskets aside, I thought when Joe went to check on wailing Eva, he did say 'Let me do this for you' and that's when she said that she wanted to do it herself. Am I misremembering that?

 

Edited May 29 by surfgirl

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, surfgirl said:

Your order has been noted: Reservation for Table of 5, extra handbasket in blue with gray trim.

He'll and handbaskets aside, I thought when Joe went to check on wailing Eva, he did say 'Let me do this for you' and that's when she said that she wanted to do it herself. Am I misremembering that?

 

We did see Joe saying "Let me do this for you." But the "this" is at least somewhat ambiguous IMO.

In all fairness, it could mean "Let me do this firemaking challenge for you." But I am skeptical that is what was meant since the "this" could also be any number of things like "Let me do this favor of talking to the producers for you" or "Let me do this favor of calling medical for you."

I find it sus, as the kids say these days, that we were not directly and unambiguously shown Joe or Kyle offering to do firemaking for Eva, even though these offers supposedly happened at multiple times. 

And I find it sus that we just launch into "Let me do this for you." IMO, there clearly was some conversation between Joe and Eva that we weren't shown prior to that "Let me do this for you."

Edited May 28 by Chicago Redshirt

[surfgirl]

10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

We did see Joe saying "Let me do this for you." But the "this" is at least somewhat ambiguous IMO.

I guess I'm good with taking this at face value, which is that this was Joe offering to step in and make fire in Eva's place. BUT, I can see your point - especially since TIIC manufacture the storyline they want to advance to viewers - where perhaps that was a clip of a conversation where, let's say, Joe was frustrated watching Eva have a screaming meltdown and he said "let me do this for you", meaning "let me show you how to make fire." But as you said, that would defeat their portrayal of Saint Joe, patron Saint of Padres. If that's what he meant rhen as you and others have said, it makes it clear that other players didn't play as they usually would have because they were always making concessions for Eva. Which adds legitimacy to the theory that Eva needed a lot of extra help to advance in the game. And that's nit fair to put that on players.

Conversely, if Joe was indeed offering to take Eva's place in making fire, it adds to his Saint Joseph persona, but it still proves that Eva was helped through the game because another player was willing to throw their game play to accommodate her.

Tonight I told my husband, "I can't believe it's only been one week since the Scream Heard Through the Forest, it seems like it happened a month ago!"

Edited May 29 by surfgirl