S01.E07: Secrets and Lies

[DanaK]

Quote

Sonya wrestles with treating a guy from her past and must rely on Amy to help her. Richard (Scott Wolf) deals with a family situation. Jake and TJ debate the moral implications of a diagnosis in the all-new "Secrets and Lies" episode of Doc airing Tuesday, Feb 18 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX.
 

Very good episode though Sonya never should have treated her patient from the start. I liked that Amy had so much compassion for her in spite of Sonya’s coldness to her before that

[Cloud9Shopper]

I enjoyed Sonya’s plotline (you could tell she was truly traumatized and it was haunting to watch) and her interactions with Amy, but I otherwise am not sure about this show in the long term. I understand it’s supposed to be about Amy getting a second chance to be a better person at work and in her personal life, but it seems like she’s already back at almost full strength and blazing right through work and is now sugary sweet all the time. (I didn’t mind her past self where she had a bit of an edge to her.) Something doesn’t feel authentic or like it’s moving too quickly. I thought the first two episodes were well done and showed her struggle better compared to where we’re at now. If I had turned this show on while flipping channels and had no knowledge of it, I wouldn’t guess it was about a doctor recovering from a major brain injury. 

Also, if she was already taking the boards…since when are they still given on paper and pencil? I think even back in the early 2000s you could take boards and other licensing exams on the computer. (My mom went for her LPN exam around 2005 or so; I’d have to ask her.) I work adjacent to education and know most standardized tests are electronic now. Not that it ruined the episode for me, just a minor pet peeve. 

[l star]

This felt like a whole hour dedicated to making me like Sonya and Richard. I sympathize with them both. Both situations are terrible. Seeing them both be bad at their jobs all hour didn’t really help my dislike though. 

Amy treated Sonya like an intern, and she was right to. I will give Sonya credit for trying to get off the case, but there had to be an alternative to staying on it when she couldn’t get Miller. She couldn’t do anything. What would she have done if Amy was an actual intern? I don’t blame her for freaking out. I would have been a mess. But she paid no attention to his medical state, hid from monitoring him, then tried to kill him. It was like watching a train crash. 

I liked seeing glimpses of hardass Amy. She was pissed and threw all deference out the window. She completely took control. I could easily see her as the boss. I liked seeing her really think and consider before deciding to cover for Sonya. That was a big ask. I smiled when she was condescending to the nurse too. Not because treating nurses badly is a good thing, but just because I like seeing the glimpses of attitude still there.

Jake and Amy continue to be really cute. Katie and Amy continue to be great. 

[possibilities]

There must be someone 2nd in command when Richard is not there. Sonya should have been able to go to whoever that is, when Ricahard was AWOL and she needed to get removed from the case. Jake asked her if she needed anything-- maybe he was the person to go to? 

It seems to me that they want us to think about the reality that doctors are human and will make mistakes, and ask how we want that to be handled. That applied to both Sonya and Richard this episode, and was underlined by Amy reciting the oath that includes that they are not to play God.

Also, the case with the "ethical grey area" that had Jake and intern witholding information-- I thought that was a definite break with protocol, since the wife was not the patient and they chose to inform her and not the patient, who was conscious and competent-- it worked out, but is it really their place to do that? I'm pretty sure if they had consulted Gina, the answer would have been no, and frankly I still think they were wrong to do it. They were lucky that the patient forgave them.

I am not sure what the show is trying to say here, but it looks to me like they think "oops! killed someone!" is an accceptable margin of error and I hope that's not the message. I would prefer something like: doctors must be trained in the seriouslness of their responsibilities and protocols must be in place to ensure their mental health is monitored and they are supported with resources and back up so they don't go off the ledge and kill someone.

 

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

There must be someone 2nd in command when Richard is not there. Sonya should have been able to go to whoever that is, when Ricahard was AWOL and she needed to get removed from the case. Jake asked her if she needed anything-- maybe he was the person to go to? 

It seems to me that they want us to think about the reality that doctors are human and will make mistakes, and ask how we want that to be handled. That applied to both Sonya and Richard this episode, and was underlined by Amy reciting the oath that includes that they are not to play God.

Also, the case with the "ethical grey area" that had Jake and intern witholding information-- I thought that was a definite break with protocol, since the wife was not the patient and they chose to inform her and not the patient, who was conscious and competent-- it worked out, but is it really their place to do that? I'm pretty sure if they had consulted Gina, the answer would have been no, and frankly I still think they were wrong to do it. They were lucky that the patient forgave them.

I am not sure what the show is trying to say here, but it looks to me like they think "oops! killed someone!" is an accceptable margin of error and I hope that's not the message. I would prefer something like: doctors must be trained in the seriouslness of their responsibilities and protocols must be in place to ensure their mental health is monitored and they are supported with resources and back up so they don't go off the ledge and kill someone.

 

Sonya was in denial and clearly suffering PTSD when she saw the guy again and wasn't thinking clearly and didn't want to reveal what happened at that point. Amy should have been thinking more clearly but she was not in charge because of her accident but at the same time she was a maverick and thought she could get them both through it once she learned what really was going on with Sonya. So both fumbled through it though of course there should have been other people they could have gone to to at least get Sonya off the case

As for Jake's case, it was the wife's secret and she didn't want it revealed just yet so I can understand their hesitancy

Edited Wednesday at 04:08 PM by DanaK

[Madding crowd]

So they are trying to redeem the characters of Richard and Sonya. I guessed previously they would rush to get rid of the more unique parts of the story and then would just have a regular medical drama. The main conceit about her amnesia won’t work for more than one season. She already knows everything except for Richard’s secret and once she knows that they will have to think of new things to add.

[statsgirl]

And so we begin the redemption of both Sonya and Richard. Of the two, I find Richard's more believable. He's not really a bad guy, but he's dealing with a lot and trying not to lose what he has.

I was honestly shocked at how far Sonya was willing to go  But her story was too neatly wrapped up. I like happy endings but illegally going into his phone, finding the other woman and then having her willing to come forward is too good to believe. I did like that Amy figured it, confirming that she's smart not only about medical matters.

English guy and ethics: Jake was right to go with what the wife wanted. Short of a DNA test, they can't prove that Oliver isn't his son. Jake should have asked for a mental health session on how to go forward though in terms of how he will deal with the shock and his future relationships with his wife and son..

Jake and Amy continue to be cute. But she shouldn't have lied to him about when she found out about Sonya's rape.

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

There must be someone 2nd in command when Richard is not there. Sonya should have been able to go to whoever that is, when Ricahard was AWOL and she needed to get removed from the case. Jake asked her if she needed anything-- maybe he was the person to go to?

There should be an attending physician in charge (Jake is still a resident) and that is who Sonya should have gone to. She could just have said that she had a personal relationship with the patient and should not be treating him. At least Amy pulled her off of treating him on her own after the attempted retaliation.

But then we wouldn't get the drahmah.

[possibilities]

I don't understand why anybody thinks it was ethical to talk to the wife behind the patient's back. They didn't have to say: your wife had an affair! The kid can't donate because he's not your biological son! All they had to do was tell him that he had CF, and then when the kid wanted to donate an organ, they say they need to test for a match. 

I also think that they should have provided him with an education about CF (his primary diagnosis) and told him what they told the wife, about testing and infertility and other consequences of the disease. it's a very serious illness and he needs to know all the implications. Shouldn't doctors tell you everything they learned about you from your medical testing? Isn't witholding that info and giving it to someone else unethical?

They are not the wife's doctor. For all they know, the patient knew his son was adopted, or about the affair, or any number of other explanations. They were interfering with the legitimate flow of information to the patient, and diverting it to a 3rd party.

At minimum, they should have asked Gina for a consult on the best way to tell him, not asked the wife who they believed to be cheating.

[Cloud9Shopper]

5 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

So they are trying to redeem the characters of Richard and Sonya. I guessed previously they would rush to get rid of the more unique parts of the story and then would just have a regular medical drama. The main conceit about her amnesia won’t work for more than one season. She already knows everything except for Richard’s secret and once she knows that they will have to think of new things to add.

I think this is what’s bothering me now that you mention it. And she’s seemingly not struggling at all with treating patients. Impressive. Even I once wrote a fanfic about a character with a regular old concussion (she was able to recover at home, no major surgeries or anything super dramatic) and had her miss two weeks of work. 🤣 And I relied on Google and some episodes of medical shows to help me so I didn’t do much worse haha. 

I can’t see this show lasting longer than 2-3 seasons at this rate. But I will probably be wrong and we’ll be here discussing Season 8 soon enough. (Eight years of lost memories, eight seasons.) 

[l star]

This season is only ten episodes long. There are three more episodes. They seem to be structuring it more like a miniseries with this a complete season than traditional network series that build into the next one. 

[Dowel Jones]

I thought another plot hole was the fact that the nurse station recorded cardiac and respiratory problems bordering on heart failure, yet Amy calmly dismisses the nurse with a few requests.  All that information would be on record from the moment it happened, and the other nurses and anyone around the monitors would notice it.  It's not something that could be easily explained away.

I did appreciate the recall of Sonya's previous mistake with Amy in the flashback.  Now we know why she blanked so hard.

Even though Amy thinks she did the right thing by calling the other victim, again, a decent attorney for the defense would like cross-examine her by asking if her number was in his phone directory, and then how she received the call and at what time.  This would be cross-referenced with his actual condition to show that someone else made the call, and she would then have to answer that.  All that would lead to problems with evidence, as I see it.  Granted, Sonya could still present her case too, but Amy would be in real trouble.

23 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Also, if she was already taking the boards…since when are they still given on paper and pencil?

Wasn't that her original boards in a flashback?  I rather skated over that part.

[babyrambo]

For a show based on an amnesiac’s personal & professional journey, they sure do like to rush things. Just two episodes ago Amy was proclaiming her love for her ex-husband and now she’s apparently all in with the resident boyfriend? They haven’t even had an onscreen conversation about how they’re going to navigate their relationship post amnesia or if they’re actually back together. A brief overview of their previous relationship & an overnight hookup does not a relationship make. 

But shortcuts seem to be this show’s thing. Other than the conversations between Amy and her ex husband, everything is addressed in broad strokes and then quickly resolved. Because Amy’s already taking the boards and will back to official doctoring soon, which is the professional hurdle’s solved. She’s also been oddly composed about her son’s death—lack of memories or not, it’s hard to believe that she’s taking it so well when previous Amy was so angry and bitter that it fundamentally changed her outlook on the world. I don’t want new-Amy to be weighed down by grief but it’s just so quick. 

I guess because of the premise, I thought this would be a much more character focused and deliberately paced show. But it’s actually just a routine medical drama. Amy’s condition hasn’t really hindered her like I thought it would and the handling of the interpersonal issues is almost brushed over? Not what I expected.

Like with this week’s episode. I wish they’d gone into Sonya’s background without invoking sexual violence against her. Obviously it’s a grim reality but the way it was portrayed here, using this assault to flesh Sonya out, in a sense, felt extremely rushed and lazy. The tonal whiplash between Sonya’s scenes and the fun loving family was a lot. I also didn’t care for how easily everything was wrapped up. The other woman that was assaulted mentioned not wanting to go through a drawn out public blaming by getting the law involved and despite how tidy they made everything look at the end of this episode, that’s likely what will happen. It’s going to be a much more complicated and painful ordeal than it was presented it as, though it’s unlikely that the show will ever really get into that side of things, or even bring this up again.

Sonya’s actress was really good though. I’m glad she finally got to do more than scowl at Amy and send lovelorn looks that one doctor’s way. With only 3 episodes left and Sonya taking a break from work, I hope she at least pops up on the finale. The one good thing about this storyline is that it seems to be a turning point in her characterization. The writing could be a little bogged down with dull cliches, but I’ve always liked the character, with all her sanctimonious bluntness.

[l star]

This show has definitely turned out differently than I expected. It hasn’t changed how much I like it, but I’ve had to really rethink my expectations.

I don’t have a problem with all the supporting characters not being particularly fleshed out yet. It’s only been seven episodes, and the show has a clear lead to focus on. The fact that three (Michael, Sonya and Richard) have gotten episodes with a lot of focus already is doing pretty good to me. My issue is that they are getting this time yet the strongest stories are still by far Amy’s or the ones involving her the most. In this episode, Jake and TJ’s story was a throwaway. The little we learned about them didn’t require a whole story. It was an opportunity for them to shine, and they just didn’t. Same for Michael dealing with having a new baby or Richard and his family issues. They just don’t have the impact on their own. In comparison, Amy had a strong presence here even if it was Sonya’s story, and Sonya really had a chance to shine. It could easily have been the whole episode.

Amy is by far the strongest and most dynamic character which is not a surprise. Part of that is just the advantage of being the lead. Part of that though is a deficiency in the other characters. They’re getting the time. They just aren’t having the impact that they do when they’re bouncing off her story. The show is going to have to shore that up if they want the ensemble to stand on their own.

I was thinking about this episode, and I think my favorite moment was the WTF look Amy gave Ravi when he said he wanted to catch up with Sonya. It was before she flinched and Amy really caught how bad it was so it was more just like read the room, dude. 

Edited Yest. at 06:21 AM by l star