S15.E15: Paradise Lost

[Baltimore Betty]

7 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Though I had given up on this show, I fell for Andy et al on WWHL gasping over Brynn’s dark ending that rocked NYC to the extent that there is little to no path of reconciliation, so I reluctantly powered through the last few episodes to see what the big deal was… And…? Am I the only one who doesn’t quite understand how Brynn’s actions have rocked the group to their core? Maybe because I don’t really remember who was fighting with whom or why we care, but watching these last few episodes in a row EVERYONE seemed to be screaming and talking behind each other’s backs and lying about having done so, and I don’t even know why this one was mad at this other one but told a third one that it wasn’t them but the other one saying X when it was them… Ubah was losing her damn mind left and right, but now we’re supposed to care that this lie was somehow “bigger” than the other lies everyone else was spewing and the fact that Ubah got even madder than she was before justifies all of it. These women are all “guilty” of gaslighting each other. With the exception of Jenna, Raquel, and Rebecca who all seem pretty rational and keep out of the drama. But Brynn, Ubah, Sai, Erin, and Jessel (maybe her to a slightly lesser extent) all seem to derive great glee from running around and making up stories and manipulating each other for funsies.

Same.

The only thing I can think of is Brynn lies about everything, is never contrite, it is hard to believe anything she says, if her mouth is moving she is lying.

[RealHousewife]

22 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Same.

The only thing I can think of is Brynn lies about everything, is never contrite, it is hard to believe anything she says, if her mouth is moving she is lying.

ITA. I don’t trust Brynn. I get that she has a pattern of shadiness. I don’t like how she mocks the careers of the other women. I think she can be beyond inappropriate, especially towards Jenna. But as dark as the episode was, I don’t think she’s the bottom of the barrel Housewife or irredeemable. Wasn’t she drunk? What she said was undoubtedly wrong and very hurtful, but it didn’t seem calculated, just something she blurted out in the heat of the moment. When she realized Ubah said she didn’t remember, she thought about it and realized that maybe Ubah didn’t “clock” Brynn sharing her SA. I wouldn’t want to be her friend and don’t blame the other women if they’re all done with her. I can see how she could be dangerous to be friends with how reckless she is. But I still don’t see Brynn as a Jen Shah or even a Brandi Glanville. She doesn’t give evil vibes, just someone who needs therapy for her trauma and accountability for her mistakes. JMO.

Edited January 24 by RealHousewife

[ZettaK]

11 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Though I had given up on this show, I fell for Andy et al on WWHL gasping over Brynn’s dark ending that rocked NYC to the extent that there is little to no path of reconciliation, so I reluctantly powered through the last few episodes to see what the big deal was… And…? Am I the only one who doesn’t quite understand how Brynn’s actions have rocked the group to their core? Maybe because I don’t really remember who was fighting with whom or why we care, but watching these last few episodes in a row EVERYONE seemed to be screaming and talking behind each other’s backs and lying about having done so, and I don’t even know why this one was mad at this other one but told a third one that it wasn’t them but the other one saying X when it was them… Ubah was losing her damn mind left and right, but now we’re supposed to care that this lie was somehow “bigger” than the other lies everyone else was spewing and the fact that Ubah got even madder than she was before justifies all of it. These women are all “guilty” of gaslighting each other. With the exception of Jenna, Raquel, and Rebecca who all seem pretty rational and keep out of the drama. But Brynn, Ubah, Sai, Erin, and Jessel (maybe her to a slightly lesser extent) all seem to derive great glee from running around and making up stories and manipulating each other for funsies.

Brynn said that Ubah knew she was raped, but she kept repeating Brynn exchanges sex for favors, like getting on the show. I think this is worse than some (not all) of what other HWs in this, or other franchises said. 

Edited Saturday at 09:59 AM by ZettaK

[JenE4]

9 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Brynn said that Ubah knew she was raped, but she kept repeating Brynn exchanges sex for favors, like getting on the show. I think this is worse than some (not all) of what other HWs in this, or other franchises said. 

Yeah, I guess it’s just in my opinion I don’t think that “Ubah knew” is a bigger betrayal/lie than “you slept with someone to get on this show.” And just the fact that EVERYONE was lying to each other the whole season (including the “joke” about being pregnant by another man) and even Erin being in fights with three different people at the same time the night before for her lies, I’m just having a hard time seeing why THAT is the one lie that irrevocably broke all trust but somehow the rest of them all seem to trust each other even though every one of them lied to create drama and deflect responsibility off of themselves and onto someone else. Sure, what Brynn did was bad, but everyone else was behaving badly, too. I guess my point is, I think they’re ALL terrible. Maybe there are degrees of terribleness. But I’m just having a hard time seeing why this caused SO big of a reaction. Was Ubah really that mad that she was portrayed as being insensitive when she didn’t actually know, or was she already so activated over being called out for being a Talbot’s model, against which she raged that Naomi and Giselle wish they were her(!!!)? Would this have been the “lie” that broke the show if Ubah didn’t react like that, or were they all just scrambling to appease Ubah after she was already ranting and raving  the whole trip? I know there was more off camera that we didn’t see, so I’ll trust that they all came to the conclusion that Brynn was lying. I just wonder whether they’re ALL going to stop lying to each other moving forward, because at this point, I don’t think Brynn was unique in that behavior.

I’m not going to torture myself by rewatching any parts of this show, but I wonder whether anyone has any thoughts about the scene early on in the  season where Brynn and her brother were talking about her being assaulted. The fact that she was being so open about it ON TELEVISION and with her brother seemed like it wasn’t a big secret in her life. If she really is as close to some of these women as they claim to be, it seems like she would have told them. Just kind of odd. Almost makes me wonder whether they filmed that later because it became a storyline, but I feel like it was early in the season.

Edited Saturday at 02:03 PM by JenE4

[ZettaK]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Yeah, I guess it’s just in my opinion I don’t think that “Ubah knew” is a bigger betrayal/lie than “you slept with someone to get on this show.” And just the fact that EVERYONE was lying to each other the whole season (including the “joke” about being pregnant by another man) and even Erin being in fights with three different people at the same time the night before for her lies, I’m just having a hard time seeing why THAT is the one lie that irrevocably broke all trust but somehow the rest of them all seem to trust each other even though every one of them lied to create drama and deflect responsibility off of themselves and onto someone else. Sure, what Brynn did was bad, but everyone else was behaving badly, too. I guess my point is, I think they’re ALL terrible. Maybe there are degrees of terribleness. But I’m just having a hard time seeing why this caused SO big of a reaction. Was Ubah really that mad that she was portrayed as being insensitive when she didn’t actually know, or was she already so activated over being called out for being a Talbot’s model, against which she raged that Naomi and Giselle wish they were her(!!!)? Would this have been the “lie” that broke the show if Ubah didn’t react like that, or were they all just scrambling to appease Ubah after she was already ranting and raving  the whole trip? I know there was more off camera that we didn’t see, so I’ll trust that they all came to the conclusion that Brynn was lying. I just wonder whether they’re ALL going to stop lying to each other moving forward, because at this point, I don’t think Brynn was unique in that behavior.

I’m not going to torture myself by rewatching any parts of this show, but I wonder whether anyone has any thoughts about the scene early on in the  season where Brynn and her brother were talking about her being assaulted. The fact that she was being so open about it ON TELEVISION and with her brother seemed like it wasn’t a big secret in her life. If she really is as close to some of these women as they claim to be, it seems like she would have told them. Just kind of odd. Almost makes me wonder whether they filmed that later because it became a storyline, but I feel like it was early in the season.

The scene with Brynn and her brother aired earlier in the season, but we have no idea when it was filmed. It seems to me that it was the first time she discussed it in public. Also, since it was a scene between them, the women would have seen it when the episode aired, many months after filming ended. It's possible (if not certain) the women didn't know about her rape until Brynn told them later on.

Edited Saturday at 02:57 PM by ZettaK

[ladle1]

On 1/22/2025 at 7:20 AM, bosawks said:

I actually hope they get another chance despite this episode not because of it.

I like Jessel, this version of Sai, Jenna and the 2 newbies were actually ok.

But Brynn does not make for good tv, even before this, and I'd be fine seeing what an Brynn free Ubah is like.

I think there is some there, there but I'd rather oust the production team and Brynn rather than a full recast.

I agree with this, other than the part about Rebecca being okay. 

Ubah and Brynn both behave terribly, but Ubah is more like garden variety reality TV diva terrible, whereas Brynn crosses over into dark psychiatric issues/should be getting help and not be on our screens terrible. 

I feel like Jessel, Erin, and Jenna are all solid cast members. Sai, I could take or leave. I really like Racquel, though I'm confused as to how someone seemingly so normal and rational wandered onto this shitshow. 

Clearly I'm in the minority, but I'd give this show a chance for another season with some tweaks. 

[ladle1]

I don't want to be That Person, but just FYI, the term "spaz" is considered to be a slur against people with disabilities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic_(word)#:~:text=In American slang%2C the term,other related disabilities as insults.

I realize a lot of people don't know that, so I'm just mentioning it!

[Keywestclubkid]

On 1/26/2025 at 9:59 AM, ladle1 said:

I agree with this, other than the part about Rebecca being okay. 

Ubah and Brynn both behave terribly, but Ubah is more like garden variety reality TV diva terrible, whereas Brynn crosses over into dark psychiatric issues/should be getting help and not be on our screens terrible. 

I feel like Jessel, Erin, and Jenna are all solid cast members. Sai, I could take or leave. I really like Racquel, though I'm confused as to how someone seemingly so normal and rational wandered onto this shitshow. 

Clearly I'm in the minority, but I'd give this show a chance for another season with some tweaks. 

Ubah's freak outs have the girls literally scared to say anything in fear she will fly off the handle .. thats not tv diva thats insane

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Ubah's freak outs have the girls literally scared to say anything in fear she will fly off the handle .. thats not tv diva thats insane

I think Ubah is a sweet, good person at her core, but she seems tough to be friends with. 

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I think Ubah is a sweet, good person at her core, but she seems tough to be friends with. 

I mean how good of a friend could you be with her if you are scared to say something for fear she will take it the wrong way and freak out on you and start screaming ... you cant even reason with her she just beats you down

 

I am sure she is a lovely person but those freak outs should never be made excuses for cause then she thinks its ok to continue to do

[JenE4]

59 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I think Ubah is a sweet, good person at her core, but she seems tough to be friends with. 

I’m with @Keywestclubkidon this one. This is a hallmark of an abuse cycle right here ⬆️. The abuser always behaves very sweet and loving to their victim after abuse to pull them back in. There’s no way I would ever say Ubah is “a sweet, good person at her core” when this is ALSO at her core. I thought it was very telling when she was freaking the fuck out she also kept repeating that her boyfriend was going to see her acting this way and it’s all Brynn’s fault that he will. Foremost, she refuses to take accountability for her own emotions and actions—another abuser hallmark that “you made me do this.” But also, to me this means she flips the fuck out on her boyfriend like this, too, and she’s probably already on thin ice with him about it, too, that if she doesn’t stop this behavior, he’s going to dump her, and she knows it. It’s like she’s white knuckling to lock him down with marriage so maybe the women are getting all her wrath right now. But, like I said before, ALL of these people have major issues, so I don’t think any one is better/worse than the others. Maybe some of us would be fine with walking on eggshells with Ubah, others might be better equipped to accept Brynn’s little girl lost deal. Personally, I’m flight when it comes to fight or flight, so I’d be running from Ubah’s tantrums but would be able to better navigate Brynn’s type of hurt.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Yeah, it does not take much to enrage Ubah. And then she’s feral.

I agree that she is probably already on thin ice with Oliver and her insane temper. Is she going to lose her mind on her child when she’s a mother?

Edited Yest. at 05:11 AM by hoodooznoodooz

[Marley]

I think Ubah is a psycho who thinks she's better then ppl because she's a model & has a bit of money. Her freak ours are not normal & I would never wanna be around someone like her. I don't think I have ever watched a scene on the show where she seemed sweet & nice. She has issues.

Edited Tuesday at 07:20 PM by Marley

[Salacious Kitty]

This show would be dialed back to "normal" HW shenanigans with the exits of both Brynn and Ubah. They're both just poison at this point. 

[Pi237]

I dont care how sweet Ubah's other personality pretends to be (dont remember ever seeing that side on camera), if a 'friend' ever screamed at me like that, hurling disgusting insults and expecting an apology from Me?! Peace out, psycho.  Its not the sweet side that's real, its the Raging unreasonable side that's the Real Ubah. 

But then, one time of Brynn twisting my words for kicks and sympathy would be all it took to dump her, as well.  Its not about giving someone grace or remembering when they were nice to you. Its once bitten, twice shy. 

Of course, this is their job, and they have to chase the camera. But I still think they're walking on way too many eggshells for that nut. 

[RealHousewife]

I hear you guys. Maybe I shouldn’t have described Ubah with those words. I guess I have a soft spot for her because of all she’s gone through, and then some of the women talk about her being such a good friend. I wouldn’t want a friend I have to tiptoe around either, even if there is a side that’s quite lovely. 

[snarts]

Brynn & Ubah are both terrible just for different reasons. I'd love it if we lost both. 

Brynn continues to claim that she told Ubah (around bravocon, Nov 2023) but she tells her brother (while filming S15, Mar-Jun 2024) that he's the only one she's told.  Thats the problem with liars, they can't keep their stories straight.  https://www.instagram.com/p/DFLEI4exy3w/?igsh=cDVsZGM4d3E3ZmNh

[Natalie68]

I am going to comment on the outfits. 

 

Erin: HATE IT!  It swallowed her and looked really uncomfortable.  I am wondering if the makeup person hated her.  It was bad.

Sai: LOVE IT! 

Jessel: I liked it

Ubah: It was fine

Brynn: Terrible.  Her hair and makeup did her no favors

Raquel: Beautiful

Jenna: the robe looked comfy but the turban looked uncomfortable. I do like that she wasn't dressed like the others.

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

Brynn: Terrible.  Her hair and makeup did her no favors

Agreed, but I’m glad at least she seemed to have waterproof mascara on as I don’t recall long black streaks running down her face. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

2 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

I am going to comment on the outfits. 

 

Erin: HATE IT!  It swallowed her and looked really uncomfortable.  I am wondering if the makeup person hated her.  It was bad.

Sai: LOVE IT! 

Jessel: I liked it

Ubah: It was fine

Brynn: Terrible.  Her hair and makeup did her no favors

Raquel: Beautiful

Jenna: the robe looked comfy but the turban looked uncomfortable. I do like that she wasn't dressed like the others.

I did like Sai’s. I am only looking at photos. Did the bottom half of her dress take up a lot of space when she was sitting? I would have narrowed the fabric on the shoulders. 

Jessel’s dress would look better without that ruffle nearest her face. Jessel always lets the outfit wear her.

Jenna looked amazing. Very classic and sophisticated.

Ubah’s was boring.

I actually liked Brynn’s Phyllis Diller dress. And her hair.

They told the cast black, white and gold only. I really didn’t like Racquel’s dress. But her hair was very cute.
 

 

[Natalie68]

2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I did like Sai’s. I am only looking at photos. Did the bottom half of her dress take up a lot of space when she was sitting? I would have narrowed the fabric on the shoulders. 

Jessel’s dress would look better without that ruffle nearest her face. Jessel always lets the outfit wear her.

Jenna looked amazing. Very classic and sophisticated.

Ubah’s was boring.

I actually liked Brynn’s Phyllis Diller dress. And her hair.

They told the cast black, white and gold only. I really didn’t like Racquel’s dress. But her hair was very cute.
 

 

It had a very full skirt.  What I enjoyed was they weren't all satin typical prom dresses. I do wish they would dress less formally on all reunions.  I think it looks silly.

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

It had a very full skirt.  What I enjoyed was they weren't all satin typical prom dresses. I do wish they would dress less formally on all reunions. I think it looks silly.

Did you watch the very first New York reunion? I think only two women dressed more formally (but NOTHING like these days). The others looked dressed for grocery shopping or a PTO meeting.

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did you watch the very first New York reunion? I think only two women dressed more formally (but NOTHING like these days). The others looked dressed for grocery shopping or a PTO meeting.

I did!  Loved it.  It seems a little misogynistic to expect these ladies to sit on a couch for hours and hours trussed up like they are going to prom.