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S01.E07: The Man From Grozny

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
in Brilliant Minds

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babyrambo

babyrambo

I was pleasantly surprised by the reveal of John Doe’s story, despite its sad ending. The patient was a solid actor and along with the actor playing his boyfriend, they really sold the hope and grief of their love. The scene where they reunite, with Wolf and Nichols watching in the background, was really well done. It was clear that Wolf could relate to Roman and badly wanted him to be able to live the life he’d dreamed of, but the story never became about Wolf and his angst, like it so easily could’ve been. He did his due diligence but respected his patient’s wishes and that surprised me, because medical dramas hardly let patients die on their terms. There’s always a miracle cure or family member who insists they live for them. 

I also liked the that Wolf took a chance and went for it with Nichols. I thought they’d go the slow burn route with them (and they still might depending on Nichols’ reaction next week) but they’ve got great chemistry and already balance each other out pretty well. 

I’m not as into the budding intern romances. I like the friendly group dynamic but if I had to pick I’d go with Van over the jock because the latter is  arrogant and seems more into himself than anyone else. 

  • Like 4
peeayebee

peeayebee

I think this was the best ep yet. It was sad and beautiful. I loved when the one doctor (psychiatrist?) said something like, "We gave him his voice, so we should let him use it."

My one complaint is that the team didn't tell the guy in charge of this experimental treatment that Roman decided to die. I don't think they needed his permission, but a heads-up would have been nice.

  • Like 1
PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

I wish my brain wasn't like this, but it won't shut up about the following: While it makes sense that the program could translate russian to english (even though it would do it much worse), it makes absolutely no sense that the english gets translated into russian for Roman. He should still hear only gibberish. They could have solved that if they had given him a monitor that displayed translated text or an earpiece for a voice translation, but I saw and they mentioned nothing of the sort.

I wish I could unnotice these things, because otherwise this episode was really sweet and a nice end to that mini-arc we had with Roman.

The tech guy was a bit of a dick and of course the doctors can't keep a patient alive because it might look bad on paper, but they really should have told him beforehand. I'm sure Roman would have agreed to meet with the investors before his death. He seemed very thankfull to have his voice back. Also prior notice could have given some kind of opportunity to file something to not count his death within the study. All sorts of things. Not notifying was what we call a dick move.

I did not think they would go for a kiss between Wolf and big hands in episode 7 already. Usually these things get dragged out for at least a season. This show is moving fast.

On 11/13/2024 at 12:17 AM, possibilities said:

I'm sick and tired of seeing stories about disabled people where it's all about how beautiful it is for us to die.

I don't think this was a story like that. It seemed very sad and everybody there thought it would be better for him to live. But he had made up his mind. I think this was a story about how giving people autonomy is important, even if we don't agree. That everybody has a right to that autonomy and that doesn't change just because somebody is disabled. YMMV.

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possibilities

possibilities

When there are so few strories about us that celebate our actual lives, i think there is no room for stories about us "choosing" death.

It's like the kill the lesbians trope. Nobody would object to once in a while one of us being killed off in a story. But when it's wildly disproportionate to all other representation, and made to seem more beautiful than tragic, and more thought is put into it than into most of the few other stories about us, it grossly reinforces the idea that dying is the most interesting thing we do and the most compelling story to be told, it doesn't do a damn thing for the bulk of us who've been treated like garbage when now everybody is all maudlin about someone saying: yeah, I don't actually want to live.

 

peeayebee

peeayebee

13 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I wish my brain wasn't like this, but it won't shut up about the following: While it makes sense that the program could translate russian to english (even though it would do it much worse), it makes absolutely no sense that the english gets translated into russian for Roman. He should still hear only gibberish. They could have solved that if they had given him a monitor that displayed translated text or an earpiece for a voice translation, but I saw and they mentioned nothing of the sort.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow. Why should he only hear gibberish? He could hear when people were talking directly to him. The Russian translator made him understand what they were saying, and he responded with his eye movements. So he would have understood what the machine was relaying.

PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Why should he only hear gibberish?

Because english is gibberish to him, since he doesn't speak the language. He would have still heard only english.

There is no way for a brain chip to relay messages. It can somewhat read your thoughts, that is technology that exists, but there is no way to send thoughts. So if they were going for that, that was some major BS.

As I said, that could have been fixed if they had given him a screen with a translation program, that tranlated what the doctors were saying to russian, or an ear piece that had AI voice and translation capabilities. Automatic translation to russian is still a bit rough, but it should be good enough and given the conceit, that they were imagining talking to him directly, I think that would have been fine.

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's like the kill the lesbians trope. Nobody would object to once in a while one of us being killed off in a story. But when it's wildly disproportionate to all other representation, and made to seem more beautiful than tragic, and more thought is put into it than into most of the few other stories about us, it grossly reinforces the idea that dying is the most interesting thing we do and the most compelling story to be told, it doesn't do a damn thing for the bulk of us who've been treated like garbage when now everybody is all maudlin about someone saying: yeah, I don't actually want to live.

Well they were trying to tell a story where the persons autonomy was respected and to show that that respect was important, even or especially when it's a big decision like life or death.

The only other way they could have accomplished that is if they had all of the doctors out to kill him but he would have insisted that he wants to live. I get why the writers didn't want to do that. It would have made all the doctors monsters that I wouldn't want to watch on a week by week basis anymore. Instead all the doctors were adamant that his life was worth living and that is in character from how we've seen them in all the other episodes. Trying to do what's best for their patients (which is btw. a nice change from most other medical shows where it's just about fixing the problem of the week).

I get what you are saying in principle. The "bury your gays" trope used to be a big problem. Though I don't think it has been for a while. But was that really ever a problem with disabled people? I don't think a disproportionate amount of disabled people are/were killed in fiction?

KaveDweller

KaveDweller

On 11/23/2024 at 6:59 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

The tech guy was a bit of a dick and of course the doctors can't keep a patient alive because it might look bad on paper, but they really should have told him beforehand. I'm sure Roman would have agreed to meet with the investors before his death. He seemed very thankfull to have his voice back. Also prior notice could have given some kind of opportunity to file something to not count his death within the study. All sorts of things. Not notifying was what we call a dick move.

I thought the same thing. They definitely shouldn't have kept him alive just for a study, but giving the guy running the study a heads up wouldn't have taken away anything from Roman. I agree Roman would have been willing to meet with the investors before dying, it isn't like he insisted it happen immediately.

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bros402

bros402

(edited)
On 11/24/2024 at 2:44 AM, possibilities said:

When there are so few strories about us that celebate our actual lives, i think there is no room for stories about us "choosing" death.

It's like the kill the lesbians trope. Nobody would object to once in a while one of us being killed off in a story. But when it's wildly disproportionate to all other representation, and made to seem more beautiful than tragic, and more thought is put into it than into most of the few other stories about us, it grossly reinforces the idea that dying is the most interesting thing we do and the most compelling story to be told, it doesn't do a damn thing for the bulk of us who've been treated like garbage when now everybody is all maudlin about someone saying: yeah, I don't actually want to live.

 

Honestly, I usually agree with you on things like this in all of these shows - but this is one of the few times they actually made a good case for why he wanted to die and they didn't just go "ok bye we pulled the plug."

They framed this as a story of respecting his autonomy - whereas other shows in the past have pretty much gone "he's disabled look at how horrible his life is, it's so sad he wants to die, but he can die now."

I honestly didn't expect this show to have an actual good episode - although I think the ratings are trending towards it being cancelled?

On 11/25/2024 at 10:10 PM, KaveDweller said:

I thought the same thing. They definitely shouldn't have kept him alive just for a study, but giving the guy running the study a heads up wouldn't have taken away anything from Roman. I agree Roman would have been willing to meet with the investors before dying, it isn't like he insisted it happen immediately.

I was thinking this, too.

It would've been really easy for the guy running the trial to spin it, too - "our device gave him his voice and he decided what he wanted out of his life, see how good our device is? rip roman"

Edited by bros402
possibilities

possibilities

If there were a lot of other stories about people in his situation where it didn't revolve around him wanting to die, I'd be okay with it. But I can only think of ONE story about someone with locked in syndrome (Diving Bell and Butterfly).

ANYONE other than a disabled person is not allowed to just decide to die. It's actually NEVER considered okay. But for us, it's affirmed and romanticized. It truly sickens me. 

And if 50% of the stories told about any other group were about their right to die, I can't think of anyone who would defend it. 

The suicide rate of any other group is considered a crisis. LGBTQ teens, for instance, have a SHOCKINGLY high rate of attempted suicide. Nobody says: well, we get it, this or that kid's life is terrible, their parents rejected them, they were bullied in school, some of them have trouble getting medical care, we should help them kill themselves if that's what they want, it would be sad but also so beautiful. 

 

bros402

bros402

On 11/28/2024 at 2:03 AM, possibilities said:

If there were a lot of other stories about people in his situation where it didn't revolve around him wanting to die, I'd be okay with it. But I can only think of ONE story about someone with locked in syndrome (Diving Bell and Butterfly).

ANYONE other than a disabled person is not allowed to just decide to die. It's actually NEVER considered okay. But for us, it's affirmed and romanticized. It truly sickens me. 

And if 50% of the stories told about any other group were about their right to die, I can't think of anyone who would defend it. 

The suicide rate of any other group is considered a crisis. LGBTQ teens, for instance, have a SHOCKINGLY high rate of attempted suicide. Nobody says: well, we get it, this or that kid's life is terrible, their parents rejected them, they were bullied in school, some of them have trouble getting medical care, we should help them kill themselves if that's what they want, it would be sad but also so beautiful. 

 

Question: are you considering things such as cancer and dementia in the disabled person category? If not, then there are cases where it has been considered okay - such as when Terry Pratchett discussed his support of medical aid in dying. 

However, it does tend to be romanticized with cancer due to inspiration porn.

possibilities

possibilities

I am opposed to "right to die". I think it is used as a way to throw people away rather than provide necessary care.

I have known disabled people who were not anywhere near as impaired as someone with locked in syndrome, who were pressured to sign DNRs -- people who were perfectly healthy, just disabled, people who were asking for other kinds of medical care not even related to their disability, totally routine stuff, not anything remotely alarming, or were only trying to update their paperwork (like if they move or change insurance or whatever, just routine stuff), people who are treated like they MUST be useless eaters or MUST have terrible quality of life-- people who are happy, not in anything like duress, just wanting regular care. So I think this entire issue is completely abused and dangerous. This is very common.

People who are in hospice, end stage of cancer or whatever other dying soon kind of situation I think is a different thing. 

 

bros402

bros402

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I am opposed to "right to die". I think it is used as a way to throw people away rather than provide necessary care.

I have known disabled people who were not anywhere near as impaired as someone with locked in syndrome, who were pressured to sign DNRs -- people who were perfectly healthy, just disabled, people who were asking for other kinds of medical care not even related to their disability, totally routine stuff, not anything remotely alarming, or were only trying to update their paperwork (like if they move or change insurance or whatever, just routine stuff), people who are treated like they MUST be useless eaters or MUST have terrible quality of life-- people who are happy, not in anything like duress, just wanting regular care. So I think this entire issue is completely abused and dangerous. This is very common.

People who are in hospice, end stage of cancer or whatever other dying soon kind of situation I think is a different thing. 

 

Ahh, okay.

I am in favor of medical aid in dying (with strict guidelines, however - I think things should be allowed to be stated ahead of time for progressive disorders like dementia/Alzheimers). However in this episode, it wasn't MAID - it was just the patient choosing to withdraw the medical support he was receiving. Similar to if someone decided to check out AMA.

I have never been asked to fill out a POLST...which you think I would've, given that I have cancer. I have been given those pamphlets on a living will and medical POA - but always asked if I wanted one first. One time I was given one before a blood transfusion...and I noted multiple spelling/grammar errors and gave it back to the nurse to see if she could give it to whatever department authors them 😆

possibilities

possibilities

With regard to the specific case in this episode, I think it's leaning into a pre-existing harmful trend of elevating stories where people die-- and not ones where we live. 

If we had a lot of stories about people that challenged the narrative, I'd still be disgusted but I would shrug it off as just another bit of maudlin Hollywood bullshit, and move on. 

But people's lives are impacted by a lack of any representation other than "the best thing we can do is help you die"-- and making it seem like that's what pwd want most, that all our dreams are gone, and nothing would be enough to change it. They didn't even portray the patient's decision as anything but an immediate resolve. They paid lip service to trying to talk him out of it, but we didn't see any of what was actually offered. It was lazy, shortcutted and exploitive, in my opinion.

IRL, every single person I know is having trouble getting basic things, it's very rare to have good repsectful reliable aides, enough funds, easy access to medical care, all the things that make it just fine and give you a quality of life and the ability to find your way.

It's a real situation and the show treated it like a fantasy without fleshing out what exactly was or was not the problem the guy had with his life.

It was just glossed over as "I don't want to live like this".

Well, sure-- lots of people don't like the cards they're dealt. If we start offing them after an off-camera discussion, I guess we might as well just line up a firing squad and go through town killing everybody who's struggling instead of actually trying to solve problems with attention to detail.

It's contributing to the way people look at us and behave toward us, and how newly diagnosed people look at themselves, and it impacts public policy when the main thing in anybody's mind is how tragic we are and how the best thing we can imagine is to opt out.

If they wanted to do an upsetting episode about how hard it is to get what you need, I would accept that. But if it's about how beautiful it is to give up? No, thanks. Too many people are actually struggling against a tide of "those people should just die" for me to find it a beautiful story.

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