Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Yeah No]

23 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

36 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Yelling “ASSHOLE!” at the driver is a form of finding peace, maybe?

If it is, I find that sad and I don't think its going to work.

These days yelling an obscenity at anyone in public, especially in a vehicle is asking for trouble. Do it at your own risk. It's not worth the potential price and it only breeds more hate.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Not presenting Trump as the clear and present danger that he is definitely favored Trump.  They have always cut  him slack. Going back to the 80s.  He was a blowhard then and he is a blowhard now.  And the media has always acted like he is just a character.  He gets them clicks and ratings.  There have been some journalists who  have asked him serious questions and pressed him when he wasn't forthcoming.  But overall he is always given a pass. He continues to break laws and nobody does anything about it.  He never released his tax returns. He never stepped back from running his businesses no matter what  he says.  I mean do we really believe he lets Dumb and Dumber run things? He has personally profited from his time in office. He insults Gold Star families. He insults our service men and women.  He is dumb as a stump and the media just rolls with it. 

He still hadn't submitted a pledge by the October 1st deadline, and that should have been something that disqualified him (IMO), along with too many other things. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-transition-ethics-security-concerns-2024-11-25/ 

57 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

That is really not healthy to be feeling so much anger.  I hope you can find some peace.

I wish that people would say this to trump, and every single angry person who voted for him. 

8 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Here is the latest list of books banned by Katy ISD in Texas, because God forbid we should teach kids, to think.

Here’s the list (so you don’t have to mess with the paywall):

‘A Clockwork Orange’

‘Oryx and Crake’

‘The Handmaid’s Tale’

“Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West,”

‘I Never’

‘Mammal’

‘A Clash of Kings’

‘I: New and Selected Poems’

‘The Kite Runner’

'Slaughterhouse- Five'

‘Jesus Land: A Memoir’

‘The Freedom Writers Diary’

‘Last Night at the Telegraph Club’

‘Lighter than my Shadow’

‘Nineteen Minutes’

‘Skin and Bones’

‘Sold’

‘Homegoing’

‘Living Dead Girl’

‘Skin’

‘Perfect’

More books to add to my TBR. A few have been there for a while.  Thank you. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Anela

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Here is the latest list of books banned by Katy ISD in Texas, because God forbid we should teach kids, to think.

Here’s the list (so you don’t have to mess with the paywall):

‘A Clockwork Orange’

‘Oryx and Crake’

‘The Handmaid’s Tale’

“Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West,”

‘I Never’

‘Mammal’

‘A Clash of Kings’

‘I: New and Selected Poems’

‘The Kite Runner’

'Slaughterhouse- Five'

‘Jesus Land: A Memoir’

‘The Freedom Writers Diary’

‘Last Night at the Telegraph Club’

‘Lighter than my Shadow’

‘Nineteen Minutes’

‘Skin and Bones’

‘Sold’

‘Homegoing’

‘Living Dead Girl’

‘Skin’

‘Perfect’

Some of these titles make me sad like Last Night at the Telegraph Club and Homegoing. But, there are some others on there that really are not appropriate for a school library like the George R R Martin. I also feel the same way about Diana Gabaldon's books which were banned in Florida. School libraries serve a purpose and that purpose is not the same as a public library. Those titles are also ones the book banners throw in without even ever having step foot into a school library. Kids are not reading Outlander or even Nineteen Minutes in 2024.

[Anela]

Oh, and I gave the finger to a "Trump WON" flag, that was hanging on a tree, in a garden, when my dad turned around in a driveway, last week. They voted for everything that man stands for, so I'm sure they can handle a little middle-finger gesture. 

[Anela]

 

[ParadoxLost]

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

I wish that people would say this to trump, and every single angry person who voted for him. 

I've got no problem with that.  The level of vitriol in both directions is not healthy.  It would be great if everyone could hate each other less.

You should understand where I'm coming from on this.

I was raised in a family where my Grandparents and Aunts and Uncles were quite unkind to each other over politics and drifted apart as a result.  But my parents "protected" us kids from knowing that until we were adults. 

Instead, I grew up thinking that they just didn't give enough of a shit about us to travel (we were the only ones not in the same geography).  I assumed they were all living in one big happy family without us.  And I was the kind of kid to internalize that shit, not talk about it.

When I was an adult and found out how unkind they were to each other over politics, I took everybody's side against being mean to anyone else.  Because politicians aren't worth destroying a family. 

And some fucking care should be paid to the unintended consequences if it does.  And I don't care in which direction that vitriol is flowing.  Everyone should stop being so convinced they know everything and are so right all the damn time.

 

[Makai]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

That is really not healthy to be feeling so much anger.  I hope you can find some peace.

Anger is unavoidable and it can be healthy so one moment in time is a poor indicator of overall wellbeing.

 

58 minutes ago, anony.miss said:

People heal in different ways. Some of us need to release the anger, instead of sitting on it, some of us need to retreat and heal silently. (And some of us need to eat fifteen pounds of milk chocolate a day while watching old episodes of Another World while intermittently screaming, "I cannot fucking believe this happened again!" )

This. I was raised by a someone who bottled all their emotions so expressing anger is healthy for me. I do always keep my windows up because people are too unpredictable. 

 

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

I did something today. I was waiting on a light, and I saw a Cybertruck getting ready to turn. I waited, waited a little more, rolled down my window and yelled “ASSHOLE!” at the driver.

That’s not good of me, is it? I’m guessing the person driving hears it all the time, but still . . .

Whenever I see one, I sing the cybertruck theme song to myself. 

 

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

When I was an adult and found out how unkind they were to each other over politics, I took everybody's side against being mean to anyone else.  Because politicians aren't worth destroying a family. 

And some fucking care should be paid to the unintended consequences if it does.  And I don't care in which direction that vitriol is flowing.  Everyone should stop being so convinced they know everything and are so right all the damn time.

Amen to that. They are all just opinions. Like assholes, we all have 'em. None of us has all the answers. And we have to forgive people for their mistakes, failings and even their evil acts and natures lest we become just like them, hateful and full of vengeance. It's not a good look and eventually it only destroys you, it doesn't solve anything.

I avoid being too convinced of my own moral rightness about anything. I studied ethics and know that everything looks different from different angles and depending on how much information you have. One day I might realize I was wrong about something. We have to be willing to evolve, not dig our heels in like we have it all sewn up. 

Also, I notice that many people today have in effect replaced religion and morality with politics and attach all their righteous fervor to politics and politicians. I personally think that's misplaced, but that's another story. I also studied Philosophy and Psychology so my point of view on this is very thought out. And I am also a Christian. But I'm not the kind of Christian that thinks I have all the answers or that I occupy the moral high ground with anything, nor would I shun people who don't believe as I do. So I would never do the same over politics. It would only make me as bad as the people I don't agree with. Just my opinion.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

Yelling “ASSHOLE!” at the driver is a form of finding peace, maybe?

Look, the Cybertruck has been an abomination since it was first announced on multiple levels. The fools who chose to purchase and drive one deserved to be shamed.

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, Makai said:

Anger is unavoidable and it can be healthy so one moment in time is a poor indicator of overall wellbeing.

Sure, we all have our moments, but anger is rarely healthy when directed out at a stranger like that. You don't know them or what their story is. And I don't think cheering that behavior is good for us in the big picture. I personally think there are more constructive ways of channeling anger and it should be at least more focused on who deserves it, not some rando. in a car whose story we don't know.

Said the person with the M.S. in Counseling Psychology. So that explains some of my position on this. The other side comes from my Christian values. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

[Makai]

My mom was a democrat and my dad was a republican so I’ve always been a live and let live person when it comes to politics. But, to me, the divide right now isn’t actually political, but moral, and I have no problem cutting people off when I consider them to be morally bankrupt. 

 

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Sure, we all have our moments, but anger is rarely healthy when directed out at a stranger like that. You don't know them or what their story is. And I don't think cheering that behavior is good for us in the big picture. I personally think there are more constructive ways of channeling anger and it should be at least more focused on who deserves it, not some rando. in a car whose story we don't know.

 

I just can’t make a lot out of it because it happened where it is unlikely the other person even heard it. It could be a concerning sign or no big deal. 

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Said the person with the M.S. in Counseling Psychology. So that explains some of my position on this. The other side comes from my Christian values. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

The funny thing is that my general philosophy is heavily influenced by my therapist mother who raised me with Christian values. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Makai

[peacheslatour]

How can we be civil to this?

[Anela]

9 minutes ago, Makai said:

My mom was a democrat and my dad was a republican so I’ve always been a live and let live person when it comes to politics. But, to me, the divide right now isn’t actually political, but moral, and I have no problem cutting people off when I consider them to be morally bankrupt. 

 

I just can’t make a lot out of it because it happened where it is unlikely the other person even heard it. It could be a concerning sign or no big deal. 

The funny thing is that my general philosophy is heavily influenced by my therapist mother who raised me with Christian values. 

 

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

How can we be civil to this?

Exactly. 
and the Republican convention was full of people holding signs that were pro-deportation of immigrants.  As I’ve said before: every single campaign of his, has been fueled by hatred. Every single one, and that is what millions of people voted for.  So people can miss me with shaming over thinking I have the moral high ground, when in some cases, I do.  
 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/29/republicans-trump-mass-deportation-immigration

Republicans cheer for ‘mass deportation’ – a dark new chapter in America’s history of othering ‘them’

Edited 18 hours ago by Anela

[peacheslatour]

How can we be civil to this?

[ParadoxLost]

33 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

How can we be civil to this?

Genuine question.  Is there anyone who voted for Trump you can be civil to?

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Genuine question.  Is there anyone who voted for Trump you can be civil to?

No. Never.

[bluegirl147]

The difference in political parties isn't just policy anymore.   One political party would rather a bunch of "others" didn't exist.   Or at least not exist here.  One political party would be perfectly fine with their religious beliefs dictating our laws.  One political party would be happy to have a dictator instead of a president. One political party doesn't care if pregnant women bleed out from miscarriages.  One political party doesn't care if uninsured and under insured people die from preventable diseases.  

So sorry not sorry if I choose to keep my distance from anyone who supports that party.

 

Edited 17 hours ago by bluegirl147

[Dimity]

If only it were actually possible to return the Trump.

[ParadoxLost]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

The difference in political parties isn't just policy anymore.   One political party would rather a bunch of "others" didn't exist.   Or at least not exist here.  One political party would be perfectly fine with their religious beliefs dictating our laws.  One political party would be happy to have a dictator instead of a president. One political party doesn't care if pregnant women bleed out from miscarriages.  One political party doesn't care if uninsured and under insured people die from preventable diseases.  

So sorry not sorry if I choose to keep my distance from anyone who supports that party.

 

Just for the record, none of that is true.  Although I know I'm whistling into the wind saying it.

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, ParadoxLost said:

Just for the record, none of that is true.  Although I know I'm whistling into the wind saying it.

It might not be everyone in that party but it's enough of a very vocal percentage of that party that it's what people associate with that party.

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

It might not be everyone in that party but it's enough of a very vocal percentage of that party that it's what people associate with that party.

They're the ones who make the laws that affect us all. I don't care how "economically insecure" you feel. These lawmakers are doing evil things, they're participating in cruelty of the highest order. 

[Makai]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Just for the record, none of that is true.  Although I know I'm whistling into the wind saying it.

Genuine question. What part are you saying isn’t true? That the statements are too broad or something else?

Edited 14 hours ago by Makai

[Dimity]

13 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Just for the record, none of that is true.  Although I know I'm whistling into the wind saying it.

A young mother bled to death in Georgia because the doctors were too afraid of being accused of providing her with an abortion to treat her.  Her death is squarely at the door of the Republican party and everyone who supports it.

[anony.miss]

45 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

So sorry not sorry if I choose to keep my distance from anyone who supports that party.

The party, and the character and life history of the man leading that party (can you imagine the same circumstances being viable in any other situation in life? "Hey, this new guy moved onto our block! He's a convicted felon and insurrectionist and sexual batterer and he bragged about grabbing women's vaginas and he's going to 'protect' us women on the block - whether we like it or not  - and he hasn't paid his business debts in years, but I think we should make him head of the Block Party fund anyway because he said it'll cost me less to make my deviled eggs if he's in charge! Who's with me?!!!")

Edited 16 hours ago by anony.miss

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

The Trump voters are feeling sorry themselves after Trump won, but they are mad when their family is telling them to fuck off after Trump won because Trump sucks.

They do want it both ways. They want to gloat that Trump won, but they want everyone to love them still, even though they support a rapist. This guy has another message that I can't find where he says the third daughter has now cancelled and he just can't figure it out.

 

 

The absolute irony of him complaining about their "childish and frankly, rude behavior" while he supports Trump and calls liberalism a mental disorder. Look in the mirror, bud. Again, it continues to amaze me how Trump supporters go around all, "Fuck your feelings!" but the moment someone insults them or cuts ties with them over their shitty views they have a meltdown. 

Yeah. Total mystery why his kids aren't speaking to him anymore. 

4 hours ago, Dimity said:

No way are these two alpha males going to remain best buds for long.   I just hope someone is around with a camera when it all blows up.

Gotta love how all our problems in this world are always the result of two (or more) men basically needing to do a "whose is bigger?" contest. 

But remember, women are too emotional to run anything!

[ParadoxLost]

33 minutes ago, Makai said:

Genuine question. What part are you saying isn’t true? That the statements is too broad or something else?

I think every statement is untrue.  But too broad is probably more what I mean.  Or maybe too broad through a distorted lense of divisive rhetoric is perhaps most accurate.

It would be like me saying something completely nutty and untrue like " One political party thinks a doctor and mother should decide after a baby is born if they should abort it" without any of the context around where that came from.

Edited 16 hours ago by ParadoxLost

[bluegirl147]

Republicans vote to deny gender affirming care.  Republicans want to limit immigration from what Trump called shit hole countries. Republicans school officials want to display the ten commandments and have bibles in classrooms in clear violation of separation of church and state.  Republicans cheered when Trump said he would be dictator on day one. There are plenty of instances of women dying when their miscarriages weren't treated because doctors were afraid they would be breaking the law.  And Republicans keep trying to make affordable health care harder to get instead of making it more affordable and more accessible.  

[annzeepark914]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I did something today. I was waiting on a light, and I saw a Cybertruck getting ready to turn. I waited, waited a little more, rolled down my window and yelled “ASSHOLE!” at the driver.

That’s not good of me, is it? I’m guessing the person driving hears it all the time, but still . . .

I just worry that someone might have a gun and go after you. Be careful. It's no longer like the nutty old days when one could flip the bird at a bad driver and keep on driving without incident.

[Lantern7]

Okay, I probably shouldn’t have tried to been that guy . . . but it had been a while since I saw a Cybertruck. It’s not like I’m yelling at people who still have flags out honoring their chosen messiah. It’s like they’ve gotten a heads-up about a plague, and the angel of death will spare them if it sees “MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN” on the lawn.

Edited 16 hours ago by Lantern7

[ParadoxLost]

...

Edited 15 hours ago by ParadoxLost

[Makai]

37 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Republicans vote to deny gender affirming care.  Republicans want to limit immigration from what Trump called shit hole countries. Republicans school officials want to display the ten commandments and have bibles in classrooms in clear violation of separation of church and state.  Republicans cheered when Trump said he would be dictator on day one. There are plenty of instances of women dying when their miscarriages weren't treated because doctors were afraid they would be breaking the law.  And Republicans keep trying to make affordable health care harder to get instead of making it more affordable and more accessible.  

I oppose most Trump policies purely on moral grounds but I’m pretty used to disagreeing with people over morals. What is currently driving me crazy is how these policies are also bad for Trump supporters. Abortion bans have the potential to endanger every person capable of getting pregnant even if they have no plans to get an abortion. An 18-year old died in Texas when she was doing what Republicans wanted her to do. 

More cis people get gender affirming care than trans people. I can’t think of a single Trump policy that is only going to hurt the targeted people. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Makai

[Annber03]

For real, I'm just sick and tired of trying to be nice to bullies, or being told, on a general level, that we need to be nice to these people and try to understand them. They haven't bothered to make any effort to try and understand our point of view. They've spent the last nine years making people's lives a living hell, on a societal scale and on a personal scale. They support policies that will, and do, put people's lives in legitimate danger. 

So yeah, I too am just beyond done giving a shit about what they think or what they want or trying to be nice to them. They're cruel. They're cruel and violent and have no problem treating women and minorities as though they're less than human and we need to stop coddling them and being polite and start fighting back. 

[Bookish Jen]

22 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

For real, I'm just sick and tired of trying to be nice to bullies, or being told, on a general level, that we need to be nice to these people and try to understand them. They haven't bothered to make any effort to try and understand our point of view. They've spent the last nine years making people's lives a living hell, on a societal scale and on a personal scale. They support policies that will, and do, put people's lives in legitimate danger. 

So yeah, I too am just beyond done giving a shit about what they think or what they want or trying to be nice to them. They're cruel. They're cruel and violent and have no problem treating women and minorities as though they're less than human and we need to stop coddling them and being polite and start fighting back. 

I wish I could like this post a million times.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Dimity said:

A young mother bled to death in Georgia because the doctors were too afraid of being accused of providing her with an abortion to treat her.  Her death is squarely at the door of the Republican party and everyone who supports it.

When I got pregnant the first time, shortly after my husband and I got married, we were thrilled. Then I started to bleed. I called my OB/Gyn and he told me I was probably going to lose the pregnancy and if the bleeding didn't stop in a few hours, I was to call him back and he would meet me at the hospital. The bleeding didn't stop so we met him at the hospital. He performed a D&C and I was sent home after recovery. I was fine. A couple years later we had our darling son. If we lived in one of these sh*thole states, I would have been told there was nothing they could do, to go home and my poor husband would have had to sit by helplessly and watch me bleed out. 

I have posted this elsewhere and I will keep telling my story until maybe, just maybe, someone who can do something about it, will.

[kittykat]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

For real, I'm just sick and tired of trying to be nice to bullies, or being told, on a general level, that we need to be nice to these people and try to understand them. They haven't bothered to make any effort to try and understand our point of view. They've spent the last nine years making people's lives a living hell, on a societal scale and on a personal scale. They support policies that will, and do, put people's lives in legitimate danger. 

So yeah, I too am just beyond done giving a shit about what they think or what they want or trying to be nice to them. They're cruel. They're cruel and violent and have no problem treating women and minorities as though they're less than human and we need to stop coddling them and being polite and start fighting back. 

For real.  Every thread I have read on social media has been all "yOu ShOuLd TrY aNd LiSTeN!". 

Scenario where a leftie talks to a rightie.

Leftie: ok give it to me straight, why Trump 

Rightie: something something economy something something no more status quo.

Leftie: ookkkay.  Thank you, in return I'd like to tell you why I don't think Trump will do any of those thin-----

Rightie: LALALAICANTHEARYOU LiBTARd!  GET OVER IT YOU LOST!

Every damn time!

[Dimity]

Here the big news is the possibility that Trump will follow through with his threat to impose tariffs on Canadian goods.  Predictably our right wing pundits are already making this all Trudeau's fault.  It freaking never fails with them and Trump.  They can't come right out and kiss his feet as even those on the right are not, for the most part, fans  so instead they blame Trudeau.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Edited 13 hours ago by Dimity

[Lantern7]

I’m still thinking Trump might not be around for as long as people might think. The GOP has all three branches in Washington. They wouldn’t have gotten the White House with anyone else because none of them had that level of clout. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vance was the party’s pick. If Trump were to leave the office, Republicans would have someone stable to push their agenda, and they could be thanked by some desperate people that he doesn’t follow through on Trump’s senile ramblings.

I know he wouldn’t leave on his own. That’s all I’ll say on the matter.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I’m still thinking Trump might not be around for as long as people might think. The GOP has all three branches in Washington. They wouldn’t have gotten the White House with anyone else because none of them had that level of clout. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vance was the party’s pick. If Trump were to leave the office, Republicans would have someone stable to push their agenda, and they could be thanked by some desperate people that he doesn’t follow through on Trump’s senile ramblings.

I know he wouldn’t leave on his own. That’s all I’ll say on the matter.

I would love to see them try to 25th amendment him and put in Vance, who has the charisma of an overflowing ashtray. Will it be Trump and Elmo against Peter Thiel and the tech bro oligarchs? Which side will the Saudis take? Russia? China? It's like watching Godzilla in real time.

[Makai]

58 minutes ago, kittykat said:

For real.  Every thread I have read on social media has been all "yOu ShOuLd TrY aNd LiSTeN!". 

Scenario where a leftie talks to a rightie.

Leftie: ok give it to me straight, why Trump 

Rightie: something something economy something something no more status quo.

Leftie: ookkkay.  Thank you, in return I'd like to tell you why I don't think Trump will do any of those thin-----

Rightie: LALALAICANTHEARYOU LiBTARd!  GET OVER IT YOU LOST!

Every damn time!

Yes! I’d recommend Bluesky. It’s where a lot Harris supporters went with the exodus from Twitter and they’re not focused on building bridges. 

32 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I’m still thinking Trump might not be around for as long as people might think. The GOP has all three branches in Washington. They wouldn’t have gotten the White House with anyone else because none of them had that level of clout. I wouldn’t be surprised if Vance was the party’s pick. If Trump were to leave the office, Republicans would have someone stable to push their agenda, and they could be thanked by some desperate people that he doesn’t follow through on Trump’s senile ramblings.

I know he wouldn’t leave on his own. That’s all I’ll say on the matter.

It wouldn’t surprise me. Trump’s immigration and tariff policies are unpopular with many major lobbies. He may be popular but if he is able to do what he wants to do it will piss off companies and organizations that are traditionally very pro-Republican. I could easily see the party wanting Vance in power so they could reap the benefits of Biden’s economic improvements while continuing to drive social policies the way they want. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Makai

[Makai]

21 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Forgive me . . . what is the 25th Amendment? Is it a deal where a President can be replaced if he’s judged to be too ill? Because that’s the only way I see him leaving and still remain breathing.

It establishes what happens if the President can’t, or chooses not to, fulfill his duties temporarily or permanently. 

The VP and the majority of the Cabinet could declare him unfit. If Vance were to try it, Trump could dispute the claim and it would go to Congress. It would take 2/3rds of both Houses of Congress to make the VP acting President. That particular section of the 25th amendment has never been invoked. It only came close when Reagan was shot so removing a President who doesn’t want to leave would be uncharted territory. 

[annzeepark914]

Author McKay Coppins ("Romney: A Reckoning") said that while he was writing this book, he learned something interesting. In 2012, when Romney was running for president and would be out there meeting & talking with Republicans, he tried to talk about how he would improve the economy. But they weren't interested at all in that. They wanted him to talk about everything he was angry about. So...there we are. 

[Yeah No]

There is a difference between standing for something or not accepting something on the one hand, and ridiculing, shaming and not being civil to people. If you don't want them doing those things to you, don't do it to them, even if you think they deserve it. You only perpetuate vindictive conflict that way. It comes back to you. Better to work out our anger in therapy or with friends who agree with us rather than perpetuate the cycle of violence and bullying behavior by taking it out on others we don't agree with or find morally repugnant. No matter how offensive they are to us it isn't worth that. Do we really want to live in a world like that? I certainly don't. Better to channel one's energy in changing things for the better, not making them worse.

I've read that people that have been bullied can become bullies. I was bullied horribly as a kid, but I have never become one myself. And intolerance only breeds more intolerance. I have never stood for intolerance or been an intolerant person. We have to be above that kind of behavior. If you don't like that behavior from the people you condemn, don't be that way yourself. There is a difference between feeling intolerant to what people stand for and speaking out to moral injustice and being intolerant to people in retribution. I stand for the former two but not the latter. 

"Violence does in truth recoil upon the violent and the schemer falls into the pit which he digs for another." Sherlock Holmes - The Speckled Band

Edited 12 hours ago by Yeah No
Grammar.

[anony.miss]

1 hour ago, kittykat said:

Every thread I have read on social media has been all "yOu ShOuLd TrY aNd LiSTeN!".

I did listen. And they told me everything I needed to hear by how they voted.

Edited 12 hours ago by anony.miss

[tearknee]

As Trump shows both in '16 and now, as Brexit shows, attempting to shame ordinary people in the GP only makes the drift to popularism (Trumpism?) speed up. The last thing a poli-social activist or advocate is is an ordinary person. 

42 minutes ago, Makai said:

It establishes what happens if the President can’t, or chooses not to, fulfill his duties temporarily or permanently. 

The VP and the majority of the Cabinet could declare him unfit. If Vance were to try it, Trump could dispute the claim and it would go to Congress. It would take 2/3rds of both Houses of Congress to make the VP acting President. That particular section of the 25th amendment has never been invoked. It only came close when Reagan was shot so removing a President who doesn’t want to leave would be uncharted territory. 

IMO Edith Wilson was not the first female president. She's only lucky that there was no major domestic or foreign crisis just after WW1.

[tearknee]

GP = General Public

[Makai]

15 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

There is a difference between standing for something or not accepting something on the one hand, and ridiculing, shaming and not being civil to people.

I agree in theory. The difficulty is that what each person views as ridiculing, shaming and being uncivil is going to vary widely particularly when emotion is involved. Trump has created this narrative that any pushback is an attack. Remember Vance’s indignation that he wasn’t supposed to be fact-checked at the debate. 

21 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

No matter how offensive they are to us it isn't worth that.

For the people who have found their lives and well-being at risk, it is very likely worth it. I can be, and generally am, civil to Trump supporters (mostly I ignore them) but I also know that I am in the really fortunate position to be able to weather what is likely to happen over the next four years. It will probably be a financial struggle at times but my life and health isn’t going to be in jeopardy to any greater degree than I would have been if Harris was elected. But, I also fully support those who are facing really scary circumstances during Trump’s second term to react how they need to react. People are still processing really complex emotions and that is a slow process. 

35 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And intolerance only breeds more intolerance.

Unlimited tolerance also breeds intolerance. 

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, Makai said:

I agree in theory. The difficulty is that what each person views as ridiculing, shaming and being uncivil is going to vary widely particularly when emotion is involved. Trump has created this narrative that any pushback is an attack. Remember Vance’s indignation that he wasn’t supposed to be fact-checked at the debate. 

For the people who have found their lives and well-being at risk, it is very likely worth it. I can be, and generally am, civil to Trump supporters (mostly I ignore them) but I also know that I am in the really fortunate position to be able to weather what is likely to happen over the next four years. It will probably be a financial struggle at times but my life and health isn’t going to be in jeopardy to any greater degree than I would have been if Harris was elected. But, I also fully support those who are facing really scary circumstances during Trump’s second term to react how they need to react. People are still processing really complex emotions and that is a slow process. 

Unlimited tolerance also breeds intolerance. 

Well in a nutshell what I'm saying is be careful not to commit a morally repugnant act in return for a morally repugnant act. You're no better than they are if you do that. You can't expect moral rightness if you aren't living it yourself (and who does that perfectly anyway?). Calling people names, harassing them, and doing other things in their face to interfere with their lives in a personal way is not the answer. Taking action to personally insult or otherwise demean someone is not morally right either. Standing against and speaking out against what they are doing and stand for is not in the same category and is in my opinion OK. There is a big difference, and that is by far NOT unlimited tolerance either. And I'm all for processing one's anger, I have it myself, but there are many other ways to do that without descending to the level I described above. Coming here and reading the posts here is one way I'm handling it. 

[tearknee]

"Unlimited tolerance also breeds intolerance" sounds a lot like "counter speech is free speech!"... which leaves out the elements of intimidation and coercion that are often involved (blockades and screaming into a megaphone and banging on the walls of a classroom or lecture theater or playing noise or music at full volume to prevent your political enemies from being able to speaking freely are all forms of violence not "peaceful protest").
 

[Yeah No]

10 minutes ago, tearknee said:

"Unlimited tolerance also breeds intolerance" sounds a lot like "counter speech is free speech!"... which leaves out the elements of intimidation and coercion that are often involved (blockades and screaming into a megaphone and banging on the walls of a classroom or lecture theater or playing noise or music at full volume to prevent your political enemies from being able to speaking freely are all forms of violence not "peaceful protest").
 

Yeah, it's also kind of hypocritical to claim to stand for tolerance of lifestyles and beliefs if one is going to act with intolerance to those who don't believe in being tolerant to those things. There is justifiable anger but not justifiable morally repugnant action just because it's committed against someone who also was morally repugnant. It doesn't work that way in my opinion. As we used to say a million years ago when I was a kid, "Two wrongs don't make a right".

Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving everyone (Americans and non-Americans alike) ! I'm going to be offline until after Thanksgiving so take care and see you later!

[Makai]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Calling people names, harassing them, and doing other things in their face to interfere with their lives in a personal way is not the answer. Taking action to personally insult or otherwise demean someone is not morally right either. 

Morals aren’t universal so the boundaries of what I view to be morally reprehensible is likely to be different than what you view to be the boundaries. Without dealing in more specifics it is difficult to have a conversation about the issue. Are we talking online or in person? Is the response provoked or unprovoked? What kind of names? What do you view to be harassment?