Chit-Chat: The Feels

[peacheslatour]

Exactly this. When Harris was picking a VP, everyone I saw knew that it had to be straight, white, Christian man. White men haven’t lost power, they are just pissed they have to share power with people who don’t look or think like them. 

When you're used to having all the power, equality for anyone else feels like oppression.

[Makai]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Exactly this. When Harris was picking a VP, everyone I saw knew that it had to be straight, white, Christian man. White men haven’t lost power, they are just pissed they have to share power with people who don’t look or think like them. 

When you're used to having all the power, equality for anyone else feels like oppression.

Thank you!! I was trying to remember that exact quote when posting. 

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Makai said:

Thank you!! I was trying to remember that exact quote when posting. 

It's not exact. I modified it a bit. ;-)

[partofme]

I think saying someone has white privilege is mostly another way of saying they’re not affected by racism.   Normally if you ask me if I’ve benefited from white privilege as a white woman I think no I haven’t benefited at all.  But there’s this, I lived in nyc for years and I brazenly jaywalked directly in front of the police on numerous occasions without incident, yet two former colleagues of mine,  both minority women, were ticketed for jaywalking.  This just screamed racism to me.  

[kittykat]

When we say the Democrats need to cater to their loyal base like black voters or LGBTQIA+ voters no one is saying exclude white males.  I just don't want them to focus so much on them that they alienate the voter bases that have remained loyal to them.  I would focus more on white women who have drifted right.  But I agree with everyone above that no one is saying ALL white males are ignorant or privileged. 

We are aware that a select amount struggle mentally and economically feel left behind but it's also an uphill battle when these select guys get their news from echo chambers that are telling them that the reason they're being left behind and ignored is because of the Woke Agenda and white discrimination, instead of the real reason which is late-stage Capitalism and crony politics.

And as Palimelon stated in an earlier post, privilege isn't just being at the front of the line for employment.  It's the little day to day things men do and don't think about while minorities and women have to second guess or take precautions.

 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Yeah it's a little hard to say white men are being pushed out when they are still overwhelmingly in charge.

And from my own personal experience any white man I have ever known that complained about being further behind than they thought they should be it was because of their own life choices.  Not because society had shortchanged them.

SOME white men are. Older, rich white men, not younger poor white men. That distinction makes ALL the difference and precisely what I'm talking about lumping all white men together and why the poor, less educated white men have felt insulted by it. Some people don't seek a higher education because they are better suited for manual labor. No shame in that. But then if they don't achieve a lot of money then it's seen as their fault somehow. Often times it's not. Money social status mean something here and many white men in rural areas do not have it. I have been to rural PA many times. I have been all over this country. You have to hear their stories, but I don't think a lot of Democrats are listening and that's how we got in this mess.

And I think if you spoke to my husband about this he might change your mind. See my post on his disadvantages. He would be very insulted that you think it's his fault that he never made more money than I did in my life. Let me tell you, he is a very intelligent man but came from poverty and did not have a college degree because he was an undiagnosed dyslexic. So he is proof that being a white man alone is not enough for success if there are other reasons for disadvantage. I cry thinking about the ways he tried to make more money. Holding 3 jobs, applying for everything. Enrolling and then dropping out of college umpteen times before he knew he was dyslexic. But this is the very assumption that I call prejudice of white men. It's not fair to paint them all with such a broad brush any more than we should paint minorities with a broad brush.

32 minutes ago, Makai said:

Exactly this. When Harris was picking a VP, everyone I saw knew that it had to be straight, white, Christian man. White men haven’t lost power, they are just pissed they have to share power with people who don’t look or think like them.

When Biden was picking his VP he made it very clear and public that he was going to pick a Black woman. 

38 minutes ago, Makai said:

So many people get defensive when privilege comes up because they immediately focus on everything that makes them feel disadvantaged and they want to defend all the ways they don’t feel privileged. It just further alienates people. The basic reality is that most men can navigate the world without the same hypervigilance that is required of most women. 

And, most men do acknowledge that when it comes to the women in their lives. 

You're right, they do acknowledge it but they also are the victims of violent crime and murder more than women are. I think if we tallied up the ways poor white men are underprivileged they would be more underprivileged than rich and upper middle class white men, and that's the problem - lumping them together.

The problem as I see it is that Democrats get bogged down in who is the bigger victim/who is the most disadvantaged and therefore who deserves more money, rights, etc. I think we all deserve the SAME rights. We complain about the politics of grievance with MAGA and Trumpism, but I see as much of it on the Democratic side too. And it's not a good message for us to send out because some people's grievances seem to some groups to be more recognized and valued than others'. And it's not just seen that way by white men either.

[FilmTVGeek80]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 

Tuition forgiveness is a sore subject with me because I came of age at a time of double digit inflation, interest rates and unemployment in NYC where the cost of living has always been sky-high compared to the rest of the country, and I suffered great hardship as a young person just graduating college with the equivalent in today's money of about $45,000 in student loan debt. I did not come from money nor did I make a lot of money. I worked in higher ed. making bupkis. The perception that all Boomers (especially late Boomers like me) had it so easy back in the day is in my opinion misguided based on facts. I could have benefitted from tuition forgiveness but I had to struggle through a couple of hardship interest-only deferrals before I eventually paid it off almost 15 years after I graduated.

Granted, young people today, especially after the recent inflation, have it almost or just as hard but who is going to forgive me my student loans after all they did to set me back in life? And where is the money going to come from to forgive them? Is Social Security going to go bust while we forgive student loan money? I'm a senior now and I STILL have to worry about my survival.

So anyway, that's my opinion.

Like I said before, I also had to pay off my student loans. I would love to have had the opportunity to have them forgiven. It sucks that I didn’t, but I still don’t begrudge others the opportunity to have this good thing I didn’t. Should we not fix problems just because others who had to suffer don’t get to experience that better life? Should we have kept schools segregated just so the new and old generation could suffer the same way? I’m sure there are older gay people who never got the chance to marry their partners and that’s terrible. It doesn’t mean that gay marriage equality should have never happened. 
 

There are a lot of people out there trying to fight to make sure things like SS and Medicare don’t get gutted. They’re some of the same people who are fighting for student loan forgiveness. It’s not an either/or situation. 

[Dimity]

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Let me tell you, he is a very intelligent man but came from poverty and did not have a college degree because he was an undiagnosed dyslexic

Same could be said for my father, who rose to the level of a CEO in his chosen field.  He worked hard to get where he did but he will be the first to tell you being an anglophone white man in the 1960s didn't hurt. 

No one is saying all white men this or all white men that, all we are saying in that in general white men, especially white protestant men, have been disproportionately advantaged and to ignore that reality is just maddening. 

I for one am sick and tired of the "what about the menz" mentality.  I worry a helluva lot more about what the future holds for my granddaughters than I do about my grandsons.  I don't love them more I just know that girls have to deal with so much more just because they are female then their brothers ever will. 

Women stepping up and saying "please sir, can I have some more" is what is causing this backlash - co-ordinated needless to say by white men of privilege.

Edited November 13 by Dimity

[bluegirl147]

40 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

When you're used to having all the power, equality for anyone else feels like oppression.

And this really is what is at the heart of lot of the anger we see directed at LGTBQ, POC, non Christians and of course women.   The more progress we have made others have seen it as an affront to what they have.  Two people of the same sex being able to marry in no way does anything to a hetero couple's marriage.  A Muslim saying their prayer doesn't mean someone's else prayer is less important.  And women being able to decide how she plans on having a family if she so chooses to shouldn't be any business of anyone else.  

28 minutes ago, partofme said:

  Normally if you ask me if I’ve benefited from white privilege as a white woman I think no I haven’t benefited at all.  But there’s this, I lived in nyc for years and I brazenly jaywalked directly in front of the police on numerous occasions without incident, yet two former colleagues of mine,  both minority women, were ticketed for jaywalking.  This just screamed racism to me.  

I'm a white woman and I know I have benefitted from privilege.  Does it mean I expected it? No.  Do I think it's fair?  No.  My son who's father was black has been pulled over for DWB.  When he asked what he had done the officer had no answer.  She mumbled something about thinking he was someone else and told him to have a good night.  The fact he had his wife and family in the car probably threw her. The only times I have ever been pulled over is when I have in fact committed a moving violation. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

No one is telling 12 yr olds this.  Well no one except the extreme right who choose to believe this is the message given when women ask for an place at the table.  This has been happening since I was a 12 yr old myself.  And likely was happening when my grandmother was 12.   

When people said Black Lives Matter they weren't saying white lives don't - but it suited those in power to twist the message.  Same thing here.  The extreme right are twisting the narrative - no one is saying ALL white men have it good.  No one.  But how convenient to make it sound like this is what is being said - and how interesting that it's being said by a party that is led, currently, by a cabal of rich white men.

Whoa...you're making it sound like there are only two "races" - Black and White.  Keep in mind that BLM was also at the height of East Asian hate crimes thanks to the pandemic.  And I believe that was when we found bodies of Indigenous children at former residential schools here in Canada?  Anyway, we should accept difference of opinion.  I was in university during the HEIGHT of PC-ness in the late 90s and early naughts and faced A LOT of gaslighting from my Women's Studies TA.   

[FilmTVGeek80]

15 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

When Biden was picking his VP he made it very clear and public that he was going to pick a Black woman. 

The difference is Biden didn’t have to pick a Black woman or any minority. He did it because he recognized that Black women have lifted him up his whole career. Also, because he is aware that diversity and representation matter. For her, she had to pick a White man because she, and everyone around her, knew it would be a struggle to get a minority woman elected, and putting two minorities together would have been even harder. 

[Dimity]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Whoa...you're making it sound like there are only two "races" - Black and White.  Keep in mind that BLM was also at the height of East Asian hate crimes thanks to the pandemic. 

My reason for referencing the BLM movement was to point out that saying black lives matter was not another way of saying white lives don't matter.  It had nothing to do with making assumptions about the all to prevalent racism directed at other minorities.

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Money social status mean something here and many white men in rural areas do not have it.

I live in a majority white rural state.  There aren't a lot opportunities here.  Being able to get a well paying secure job right out of high school is long in our past.  And yet we still have young men who instead of moving for better opportunities or going to college or trade school stay and complain about their lot in life.  And it's not just men. It's also women.  I absolutely believe the biggest problem we have in this country is the income/wealth gap.  It is a fact the richer are getting richer and the poorer are getting poorer.  Until someone really starts to address that we are going to continue to see the anger and resentment continue to grow.  I will forever not understand why some people blame the undocumented worker who is just trying to survive and not blame the employer who is paying them under the table so he can keep more of his money.

13 minutes ago, Dimity said:

No one is saying all white men this or all white men that, all we are saying in that in general white men, especially white protestant men, have been disproportionately advantaged and to ignore that reality is just maddening

I have seen way too many of those men fail and still continue to get opportunities.  Could you imagine if Obama had said even one the crazy things Trump said?  Or if Obama had been caught messing around with an intern?  

 

[FilmTVGeek80]

14 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Whoa...you're making it sound like there are only two "races" - Black and White.  Keep in mind that BLM was also at the height of East Asian hate crimes thanks to the pandemic.  And I believe that was when we found bodies of Indigenous children at former residential schools here in Canada?  Anyway, we should accept difference of opinion.  I was in university during the HEIGHT of PC-ness in the late 90s and early naughts and faced A LOT of gaslighting from my Women's Studies TA.   

Black Lives Matter predates COVID. And, I don’t believe just because Black Lives Matter was used as an example that it means that someone is suggesting only Black and White are the only races. 

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The difference is Biden didn’t have to pick a Black woman or any minority. He did it because he recognized that Black women have lifted him up his whole career. Also, because he is aware that diversity and representation matter. For her, she had to pick a White man because she, and everyone around her, knew it would be a struggle to get a minority woman elected, and putting two minorities together would have been even harder. 

He also didn't have to choose a woman of color for the Supreme Court but he did.  She was eminently qualified and yet there are people who say Justice Brown Jackson was a DEI hire.

Edited November 13 by bluegirl147

[peacheslatour]

I think what we're seeing boils down to one thing. It's not about race, it's about class. I want the next Democratic candidate for the 2028 election (if there is one) to focus less on higher education and more on things like the trades. I was an office manager for a land surveying and civil engineering firm. I also worked as a designer in a kitchen and bath remodeling company. Carpenters, plumbers, electricians and painters made good money but the vagaries of the market and things like interest rates, inflation and real estate roller coasters ever since the eighties have made these trades precarious for people who depend on home building and land development. I want to hear about plans to steady the market for people in the trades.

[annzeepark914]

16 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Yeah he used to play guitar, right?  Still he’s always been very right wing. 

He had a talk show for a short while (can't remember which channel). I'd stop for a minute (while scrolling) and just couldn't stop chuckling at him with his guitar slung around his neck. Such an overaged dork.

[PRgal]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I think what we're seeing boils down to one thing. It's not about race, it's about class. I want the next Democratic candidate for the 2028 election (if there is one) to focus less on higher education and more on things like the trades. I was an office manager for a land surveying and civil engineering firm. I also worked as a designer in a kitchen and bath remodeling company. Carpenters, plumbers, electricians and painters made good money but the vagaries of the market and things like interest rates, inflation and real estate roller coasters ever since the eighties have made these trades precarious for people who depend on home building and land development. I want to hear about plans to steady the market for people in the trades.

And I hope trade education evolves to a point that it's integrated into high schools.  Shop class doesn't really exist at many places anymore.  Heck, maybe even offer an equivalent to AP for trades where kids can get some trade school education out of the way while working on their high school diploma.  They're doing something like that in Ontario. 

[Dimity]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I have seen way too many of those men fail and still continue to get opportunities. 

A quote that is still relevant today.  Dammit.  "Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good." (Charlotte Whitton).

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I think what we're seeing boils down to one thing. It's not about race, it's about class.

Yes. But one particular party has exploited that and made it into something else.  

This LBJ quote fits:

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

 

[kittykat]

Again this argument of being left behind all boils down to the exploitation of late stage Capitalism.  The greatest struggle right now is that people working lower/middle class jobs aren't making enough money to combat the rising cost of living.  If one is working a minimum wage job, I believe one should make enough money to be able to pay for the basic necessities.  They won't purchase a house or filet mignon but food, clothing and shelter should be affordable to that person. If one is working 2/3 jobs they shouldn't be barely getting by, they should be thriving.

The problem is that most people are not paid what they are worth.  Billionaires will turn around and say they can't afford to raise wages or that jobs will be cut if their taxes are raised then turn around and tell their middle class worker it's not fair to them that minimum wage is being raised.  Keeping the middle and lower classes fighting one another is what keeps the rich empowered.  The lower classes are not taking away from middle classes for higher wages, middle classes are being grossly underpaid for their learned skill.

It's been a joke the last 10-15 years how college grads can't get an entry level job without 2-3 years experience and a low-ball salary with minimum benefits.  Trades should also be explored of course but it's about re balancing the COL and basic wages. Of course this would mean TAXING THE RICH!  

So yes I get a little frustrated when the people who voted for Trump because they feel left behind by this economy just voted back in the very class of people who have been keeping them down.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

So yes I get a little frustrated when the people who voted for Trump because they feel left behind by this economy just voted back in the very class of people who have been keeping them down.

And they will never understand that.  Even when he and his minions tank the economy and you know they will Democrats will be blamed.  I will never understand how they think a man who bankrupted casinos!!!! would be good with money.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And they will never understand that.  Even when he and his minions tank the economy and you know they will Democrats will be blamed.  I will never understand how they think a man who bankrupted casinos!!!! would be good with money.

I fully expect him to drop all the masks now and tell the evangelicals and everybody else he sucked up to to go fuck themselves. 

[EtheltoTillie]

30 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

He had a talk show for a short while (can't remember which channel). I'd stop for a minute (while scrolling) and just couldn't stop chuckling at him with his guitar slung around his neck. Such an overaged dork.

I believe it was on Fox News.

[PRgal]

18 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Again this argument of being left behind all boils down to the exploitation of late stage Capitalism.  The greatest struggle right now is that people working lower/middle class jobs aren't making enough money to combat the rising cost of living.  If one is working a minimum wage job, I believe one should make enough money to be able to pay for the basic necessities.  They won't purchase a house or filet mignon but food, clothing and shelter should be affordable to that person. If one is working 2/3 jobs they shouldn't be barely getting by, they should be thriving.

The problem is that most people are not paid what they are worth.  Billionaires will turn around and say they can't afford to raise wages or that jobs will be cut if their taxes are raised then turn around and tell their middle class worker it's not fair to them that minimum wage is being raised.  Keeping the middle and lower classes fighting one another is what keeps the rich empowered.  The lower classes are not taking away from middle classes for higher wages, middle classes are being grossly underpaid for their learned skill.

It's been a joke the last 10-15 years how college grads can't get an entry level job without 2-3 years experience and a low-ball salary with minimum benefits.  Trades should also be explored of course but it's about re balancing the COL and basic wages. Of course this would mean TAXING THE RICH!  

So yes I get a little frustrated when the people who voted for Trump because they feel left behind by this economy just voted back in the very class of people who have been keeping them down.

What's your definition of "middle class?"  Depending on where you live, you could be making $100K/a year and still just be "getting by" thanks to the high cost of living.  And someone making $100K shouldn't have to just "get by."  They should be far beyond that.  

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I fully expect him to drop all the masks now and tell the evangelicals and everybody else he sucked up to to go fuck themselves. 

If there wasn't so much at stake, I would love to just sit back and watch this with some popcorn and a cocktail. The in-fighting that will happen with the GOP when Trump does this is going to be epic. Because Trump only cares about himself and that his base likes him, and he is so easy to manipulate. What happens when the Heritage Foundation does not get what they want from him because Elon told him that wasn't a good idea? Will they try to use the 25th Amendment to force Trump out and replace him with their guy JD? Do they have the votes for this in Congress?

[Makai]

 

4 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The difference is Biden didn’t have to pick a Black woman or any minority. He did it because he recognized that Black women have lifted him up his whole career. Also, because he is aware that diversity and representation matter. For her, she had to pick a White man because she, and everyone around her, knew it would be a struggle to get a minority woman elected, and putting two minorities together would have been even harder. 

Thank you. That was my exact point. And it wasn’t just any white man because Pete Buttigieg wasn’t even considered even though he would have been perfect. Two women, a Black/Indian woman and a gay man or two minorities were all considered a bridge two far. 

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

SOME white men are. Older, rich white men, not younger poor white men. That distinction makes ALL the difference and precisely what I'm talking about lumping all white men together and why the poor, less educated white men have felt insulted by it. Some people don't seek a higher education because they are better suited for manual labor. No shame in that. But then if they don't achieve a lot of money then it's seen as their fault somehow. Often times it's not. Money social status mean something here and many white men in rural areas do not have it. I have been to rural PA many times. I have been all over this country. You have to hear their stories, but I don't think a lot of Democrats are listening and that's how we got in this mess.

I hear what you’re saying but when I am having these conversations I am not going to add a bunch of caveats to my statements. The terms are being used in a collective sense. Yes, white men are often disadvantaged but there are areas where they are better off than people of color. White privilege is a real thing. Saying that isn’t an attack on white men. It’s simply an acknowledgment of the world we live in.

There seems to be universal tendency to punch down particularly among the right. To resource guard out of fear that another group getting something means that you (collectively) will lose it. 

3 hours ago, kittykat said:

So yes I get a little frustrated when the people who voted for Trump because they feel left behind by this economy just voted back in the very class of people who have been keeping them down.

Exactly. And they were willing to sacrifice so many other groups to grab onto a false promise. I don’t want anyone else to be held back, I just want them to stop trying to hold me back. 

Edited November 13 by Makai

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

If there wasn't so much at stake, I would love to just sit back and watch this with some popcorn and a cocktail. The in-fighting that will happen with the GOP when Trump does this is going to be epic. Because Trump only cares about himself and that his base likes him, and he is so easy to manipulate. What happens when the Heritage Foundation does not get what they want from him because Elon told him that wasn't a good idea? Will they try to use the 25th Amendment to force Trump out and replace him with their guy JD? Do they have the votes for this in Congress?

Vance is one of those politicians that almost everyone hates. He cannot create a cult and he doesn't have any of Trump's "have a beer with him" charisma. 

[kittykat]

17 minutes ago, PRgal said:

What's your definition of "middle class?"  Depending on where you live, you could be making $100K/a year and still just be "getting by" thanks to the high cost of living.  And someone making $100K shouldn't have to just "get by."  They should be far beyond that.  

I guess my definition of middle class is the group of people who achieved some form of secondary education be it four year university or trade school where a learned skill is developed.

And yes it's maddening that 100k a year is barely scraping by in some cities.  I live in the greater Seattle area and this is particularly true here.  Sadly part of that is desirability of blue cities which make them more expensive (even if Fox News loves making us public enemy #1). Although tech has taken a major hit up here and thousands of jobs have been lost.

Real estate is also ridiculously exploited by means of hedge fund groups buying up available, affordable single family homes as "investments" whether they're good for their portfolios or they're leasing them as short-term rentals which drives the prices up to the point where a family making 100k can't even buy a starter home or a fixer upper without breaking the bank.

In short, the whole system is fucked.

Edited November 13 by kittykat

[Dimity]

14 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Because Trump only cares about himself and that his base likes him, and he is so easy to manipulate.

The biggest reason Trump ran again was to stay out of jail.  The second reason was to go on his vengeance tour.  When that's done, what's left?  He's almost 80, he won't run again and he doesn't give a damn who comes after him.  It's going to be a bumpy ride but I have to admit I am interested to see what happens when the Time of Trump starts winding down.

[bluegirl147]

12 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

If there wasn't so much at stake, I would love to just sit back and watch this with some popcorn and a cocktail. The in-fighting that will happen with the GOP when Trump does this is going to be epic. Because Trump only cares about himself and that his base likes him, and he is so easy to manipulate. What happens when the Heritage Foundation does not get what they want from him because Elon told him that wasn't a good idea? Will they try to use the 25th Amendment to force Trump out and replace him with their guy JD? Do they have the votes for this in Congress?

I agree there is too much at stake but I sure would like to see them cannibalize themselves.  They (meaning Republican politicians) deserve whatever hellscape Trump creates for them.  And yes the fact Elon has his ear right now has got to be giving some of the House and Senate members angina.  Trump never has to answer to his base but the same cannot be said for Republican politicians. If things go bad for voters, and unfortunately they most likely will, I hope we see a grassroots uprising saying thrown the bums out.  

8 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Vance is one of those politicians that almost everyone hates. He cannot create a cult and he doesn't have any of Trump's "have a beer with him" charisma. 

And that is probably why Trump picked him. He can never be outshone by someone.  

[Palimelon]

Quote

Vance is one of those politicians that almost everyone hates. He cannot create a cult and he doesn't have any of Trump's "have a beer with him" charisma. 

I got this quote from the late Steve Silberman's Instagram page:

"The best hashtag I've seen yet for JD Vance: #HillbillyVanilli."

 

Edited November 13 by Palimelon

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Real estate is also ridiculously exploited by means of hedge fund groups buying up available, affordable single family homes as "investments" whether they're good for their portfolios or they're leasing them as short-term rentals which drives the prices up to the point where a family making 100k can't even buy a starter home or a fixer upper without breaking the bank.

Don't even get me started on this. The fact that there are now more renters than homeowners is very concerning.

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

The second reason was to go on his vengeance tour.

This is why I'm not 100% sure he is going to say fuck you to his base. He loves the adoration he gets at his rallies.  Without them what is he going to do all day?  Govern?  God I hope not.

[Palimelon]

Quote

The biggest reason Trump ran again was to stay out of jail.  The second reason was to go on his vengeance tour.  When that's done, what's left? 

The third reason: leverage his name to make more money.

On the one hand, I would love for Biden to resign and have Harris become president, even if just for a few months, if only to f*ck up all that 47 merchandise. On the other hand, his supporters would sell their kid's medicine to get that 48 merchandise when that would get made.

[kittykat]

20 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

If there wasn't so much at stake, I would love to just sit back and watch this with some popcorn and a cocktail. The in-fighting that will happen with the GOP when Trump does this is going to be epic. Because Trump only cares about himself and that his base likes him, and he is so easy to manipulate. What happens when the Heritage Foundation does not get what they want from him because Elon told him that wasn't a good idea? Will they try to use the 25th Amendment to force Trump out and replace him with their guy JD? Do they have the votes for this in Congress?

Ugh I know.  I'm part of that hated Millennial (technically Xennial) group that is supposedly the generation of ME ME ME!!!  Well the Me Me Mes were the only group that went more blue so time to rebrand.  And I normally hate Generation Wars because everyone has good people and assholes.

Half of me knows the fight is just beginning and to lace up but the other half wants to pull up a barcalounger and take over from GenX as the generation who no longer gives a fuck.  Because goddamn we tried!

[Is Everyone Gone]

I have little tolerance for the All Lives Matter movement, because it absolutely is people being purposely obtuse. No one is saying white/Asian/Latino lives don't matter, they're saying that systemic brutality against black populations should not be swept under the rug.

It doesn't help that most of the MAGAs on my FB feed were wanting to donate to Derek Chauvin.

[bluegirl147]

6 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Half of me knows the fight is just beginning and to lace up but the other half wants to pull up a barcalounger and take over from GenX as the generation who no longer gives a fuck.  Because goddamn we tried!

As a Gen Xer I say come join us.  Our not giving fuck had served us pretty well until Trump.  As much as I want to just throw up my hands and say fuck it I can't. I will fight because if I don't I feel powerless and I will damned if I'm going to let any man make me feel that way. 

3 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

It doesn't help that most of the MAGAs on my FB feed were wanting to donate to Derek Chauvin.

I will do you one better worse. A local town hired the police officer who killed Tamir Rice in Cleveland.  When people found out there was so much outrage they had to rescind the job offer. I was pleasantly surprised.

Edited November 13 by bluegirl147

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Ugh I know.  I'm part of that hated Millennial (technically Xennial) group that is supposedly the generation of ME ME ME!!!  Well the Me Me Mes were the only group that went more blue so time to rebrand.  And I normally hate Generation Wars because everyone has good people and assholes.

Half of me knows the fight is just beginning and to lace up but the other half wants to pull up a barcalounger and take over from GenX as the generation who no longer gives a fuck.  Because goddamn we tried!

Wait! I though we Boomers were the Me Generation?

As a Gen Xer I say come join us.  Our not giving fuck had served us pretty well until Trump.  As much as I want to just throw up my hands and say fuck it I can't. I will fight because if I don't I feel powerless and I will damned if I'm going to let any man make me feel that way. 

Whatever. ;-)

[JustHereForFood]

3 hours ago, Dimity said:

No one is telling 12 yr olds this.  Well no one except the extreme right who choose to believe this is the message given when women ask for an place at the table.  This has been happening since I was a 12 yr old myself.  And likely was happening when my grandmother was 12.   

When people said Black Lives Matter they weren't saying white lives don't - but it suited those in power to twist the message.  Same thing here.  The extreme right are twisting the narrative - no one is saying ALL white men have it good.  No one.  But how convenient to make it sound like this is what is being said - and how interesting that it's being said by a party that is led, currently, by a cabal of rich white men.

Maybe not to their faces, but those kids are on the internet a lot (which is a separate problem) and it's full of such statements. If they want to be a part of the progressive side of the internet, they will see a lot of such messages and it must be hard to deal with at such vulnerable age. I am thankfully not a parent and don't want to have children, but I really don't envy today's parents who have to navigate all of this. Young boys seem to be very prone to online radicalisation in a lot of different cultures, as we have seen with the incel phenomenon, mass shootings, terrorist attacks, etc.

 

2 hours ago, partofme said:

I think saying someone has white privilege is mostly another way of saying they’re not affected by racism.   Normally if you ask me if I’ve benefited from white privilege as a white woman I think no I haven’t benefited at all.  But there’s this, I lived in nyc for years and I brazenly jaywalked directly in front of the police on numerous occasions without incident, yet two former colleagues of mine,  both minority women, were ticketed for jaywalking.  This just screamed racism to me.  

Trevor Noah once said something that stayed with me for a long time, about maybe approaching the talk about privilege not as a thing about having privilege, but about having/not having a disadvantage, or handicap, as he compared it to golf.

[Is Everyone Gone]

16 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I will do you one better worse. A local town hired the police officer who killed Tamir Rice in Cleveland.  When people found out there was so much outrage they had to rescind the job offer. I was pleasantly surprised.

Oh that is gross. By the way, the two officers in the Tamir Rice case had been previously fired/disciplined for excessive force and emotional instability. It sickens me that they escaped prosecution.

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, JustHereForFood said:

Maybe not to their faces, but those kids are on the internet a lot (which is a separate problem) and it's full of such statements. If they want to be a part of the progressive side of the internet, they will see a lot of such messages and it must be hard to deal with at such vulnerable age. I am thankfully not a parent and don't want to have children, but I really don't envy today's parents who have to navigate all of this. Young boys seem to be very prone to online radicalisation in a lot of different cultures, as we have seen with the incel phenomenon, mass shootings, terrorist attacks, etc.

 

Trevor Noah once said something that stayed with me for a long time, about maybe approaching the talk about privilege not as a thing about having privilege, but about having/not having a disadvantage, or handicap, as he compared it to golf.

Thank you.  My son is not at the age where he can go online himself just yet (we heavily monitor his iPad usage) but will be in a few years.  I hope there'll be enough change, socially, by then.  Meanwhile, I'll just have to deal with the F3P phase (think smelly/gross bodily functions) right now.  Seems so innocent.

[JustHereForFood]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think for most Democrats from my generation the idea of pronouns is not the problem. It's feeling like there are 5,000 of them that change every week or month and if you don't get them right you can be made to feel stupid, canceled and reprimanded for it. That is where a lot of people disconnect and feel like it's wokeness run amuck. And if you think this is something only socially conservative or "old fashioned" people feel you might be surprised to know that Van Jones, the CNN commentator and one time advisor to President Obama feels the same way!

I'll be honest, I consider myself supportive of trans people and I have no problems with they/them pronouns, it sounds like a no-brainer (in English, that is, which is very gender neutral - when people start to twist other languages that don't work like that, that is another thing). But people inventing new pronouns like xe, zir, or whatever make me roll my eyes a bit. But this seems to be like such an inflated thing - how many people use it like that in reality? This is IMO another example of a most outlandish part of a group that represents maybe 0,01% getting the most attention, because they are the loudest (and probably not yet employed, so they have far more free time to argue on the internet than people with full-time jobs and responsibilities). Regular people will mostly probably not care either way, but if somebody who wants to sow division shows them that some activist wrote a guide how to make language "more inclusive" by getting rid of words like mother and replace them with caretaker or something like that, I can see how it would scare someone, especially if they don't have time to check everything on how much is such idea popular.

It might be similar with the calls to defund the police, I understand that for most people it doesn't mean getting rid of police altogether, but I have seen some people on the internet cheering for that idea and claiming that all police officers are fascists, that prisons should not exist and again, it is probably very small minority, but it has a huge potential to scare people. Same with "open borders". The Republicans are using their opponents' own words as an ammunition to scare people.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

 but I really don't envy today's parents who have to navigate all of this. Young boys seem to be very prone to online radicalisation in a lot of different cultures, as we have seen with the incel phenomenon, mass shootings, terrorist attacks, etc.

 

The biggest factor in this is parents allowing their children unfettered access to the internet especially allowing their sons to access YouTube. It's not a harmless platform, and the algorithm will push right-wing ideologies the longer someone uses it. And while popular YouTube stars like Mr. Beast are on the surface unobjectionable, their content will then push your kids onto other more problematic content. Parents are not taking the time to acquaint themselves with the creators of the videos they allow their kids to watch. I personally side eye many of my acquaintances with sons who buy them Logan Paul's Prime beverages. And IMHO the jump between the Paul Brothers and Andrew Tate is barely a hop. 

Girls also need to be monitored, but the toxic content being pushed onto them is pretty much the same bullshit girls have always been given. 

[JustHereForFood]

24 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Trevor Noah once said something that stayed with me for a long time, about maybe approaching the talk about privilege not as a thing about having privilege, but about having/not having a disadvantage, or handicap, as he compared it to golf.

This is it:

 

[bluegirl147]

My question is are there online shows or podcasts that have the opposite of Andrew Tate and his ilk?  I remember years ago Kent Olberman was on Bill Maher and he said when he was at Fox one of the on air guys (I don't know if he said Hannity's name or I assumed it to be Hannity)said he was right wing because it paid better.  So I've always wondered how many of the people making money off right wing beliefs actually believe what they say.

[Palimelon]

Quote

So I've always wondered how many of the people making money off right wing beliefs actually believe what they say.

One could ask that of Trump.

I do think he is a racist, but I also think he used to be pro-abortion. At least publicly.

Edited November 13 by Palimelon

[JustHereForFood]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The biggest factor in this is parents allowing their children unfettered access to the internet especially allowing their sons to access YouTube. It's not a harmless platform, and the algorithm will push right-wing ideologies the longer someone uses it.

Oh, yes. One of my coworkers complained to me for quite some time about youtube showing her videos about trans topics, she kept telling me how tired she is of the discourse and how she doesn't want to keep hearing about it. I tried to tell her that she probably watched one video, maybe just out of curiosity (she was slightly transphobic to be honest) and the algorithm just caught on and started to push it to her. I can see how this can make people more annoyed in general and more against the ideas they don't understand. Last year, I was watching videos about Doctor Who because there were new episodes and it kept suggesting to me those "reaction videos" about how much the wokeness ruined the show, even though I made sure to not click on any of it. I was really cranky in general, just by thinking about all of that negativity directed at something I love, for clicks.

But what to do? How to fight against it? Thank the Gods of the internet for places like this where people are normal and are able to talk to each other in a civil way, even when we disagree. Reducing the dialogue to catchy slogans and name-calling is what is tearing the society apart (I don't want to use such dramatic language, but I don't have a better expression).

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Thank the Gods of the internet for places like this where people are normal and are able to talk to each other in a civil way, even when we disagree.

This thread has been great.  Talking with all of you since what happened happened has kept my spirits up.

[Makai]

16 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

My question is are there online shows or podcasts that have the opposite of Andrew Tate and his ilk?  I remember years ago Kent Olberman was on Bill Maher and he said when he was at Fox one of the on air guys (I don't know if he said Hannity's name or I assumed it to be Hannity)said he was right wing because it paid better.  So I've always wondered how many of the people making money off right wing beliefs actually believe what they say.

There are and I am seeing more men on social media presenting a different side. But rage baiting does make a lot of money for creators. I even seen some normal ones turn in that direction because they get more engagement. 

9 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Oh, yes. One of my coworkers complained to me for quite some time about youtube showing her videos about trans topics, she kept telling me how tired she is of the discourse and how she doesn't want to keep hearing about it. I tried to tell her that she probably watched one video, maybe just out of curiosity (she was slightly transphobic to be honest) and the algorithm just caught on and started to push it to her. I can see how this can make people more annoyed in general and more against the ideas they don't understand. Last year, I was watching videos about Doctor Who because there were new episodes and it kept suggesting to me those "reaction videos" about how much the wokeness ruined the show, even though I made sure to not click on any of it. I was really cranky in general, just by thinking about all of that negativity directed at something I love, for clicks.

Rage bait is a huge problem on YouTube. There are certain topics I like but refuse to search because of it. You can get rid of them in your recommendations by clicking on the three dots and selecting Not interested or Don’t recommend channel. 

[PRgal]

48 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I'll be honest, I consider myself supportive of trans people and I have no problems with they/them pronouns, it sounds like a no-brainer (in English, that is, which is very gender neutral - when people start to twist other languages that don't work like that, that is another thing). But people inventing new pronouns like xe, zir, or whatever make me roll my eyes a bit. But this seems to be like such an inflated thing - how many people use it like that in reality? This is IMO another example of a most outlandish part of a group that represents maybe 0,01% getting the most attention, because they are the loudest (and probably not yet employed, so they have far more free time to argue on the internet than people with full-time jobs and responsibilities). Regular people will mostly probably not care either way, but if somebody who wants to sow division shows them that some activist wrote a guide how to make language "more inclusive" by getting rid of words like mother and replace them with caretaker or something like that, I can see how it would scare someone, especially if they don't have time to check everything on how much is such idea popular.

It might be similar with the calls to defund the police, I understand that for most people it doesn't mean getting rid of police altogether, but I have seen some people on the internet cheering for that idea and claiming that all police officers are fascists, that prisons should not exist and again, it is probably very small minority, but it has a huge potential to scare people. Same with "open borders". The Republicans are using their opponents' own words as an ammunition to scare people.

 

I don't know ANYONE who uses zir/ze/xe/whatever!  But I tend to live in a world with so-called "normal" people, so they it is.  As for "invented" terms, Ms. is an invented one too (as is the non-binary Mx).  In post-mid 20th century French, for example, women over, say, 25 would be addressed as Madame anyway regardless of marital status.