If You Could Change One Major Plot Point…

[CM-BlueButterfly]

.. what would it be and why would you change it?

[Sarah 103]

The leak. There is no way Toby was the leak. It was so out of character for him. He would not do something like that. I still maintain to this day he was taking the fall for someone else. 

[schnauzergirl]

Mrs. Landingham's death, but what followed was so extraordinary that I hesitated to post this.  

 

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

The leak. There is no way Toby was the leak. It was so out of character for him. He would not do something like that. I still maintain to this day he was taking the fall for someone else. 

Yep, i never bought that and it totally bothered.

[Moose135]

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

There is no way Toby was the leak...I still maintain to this day he was taking the fall for someone else. 

I'll never believe Toby was the leak. My theory? His late brother's wife was the leak. He had said enough to his wife during his time in the shuttle program that she figured there was some secret shuttle out there and called a reporter. With her info, reporter was able to confirm other info he had gotten and published the story. Toby fell on his sword to protect his sister-in-law and his nieces/nephews.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

The leak. There is no way Toby was the leak. It was so out of character for him. He would not do something like that. I still maintain to this day he was taking the fall for someone else. 

So does Richard Schiff.

(And I agree.)

[Calvada]

On 9/22/2024 at 1:52 PM, Sarah 103 said:

The leak. There is no way Toby was the leak. It was so out of character for him. He would not do something like that. I still maintain to this day he was taking the fall for someone else. 

I wish I could like this post a million times.  The last three years of the show were very uneven in many ways but this was the worst.

And it's not a plot point, but I wish Aaron Sorkin was better at writing for women characters.  I think he was patronizing and sexist in many instances.  

[Skooma]

Sometimes we forget there actually has been some progress in the past quarter of a century.  What I would change isn't a plot point per se but have a more gender and racially diverse west wing staff like it is currently.  I remember how awkward it felt there wasn't any regular Black cast member and they had to shoehorn "Charlie" in several episodes in.

[Good Queen Jane]

I would ditch the Zoe kidnapping plot. It just seemed so contrived.Fortunately  the show dropped it quickly. I wonder how Sorkin was planning to resolve it.

[General Days]

15 hours ago, Calvada said:

And it's not a plot point, but I wish Aaron Sorkin was better at writing for women characters.  I think he was patronizing and sexist in many instances.  

 

Aaron Sorkin's sexism has really stood out to me in our latest rewatch. I'm honestly not sure that it hasn't stood out to me previously, but this time, when we watched S3.E14, "Night Five," the Sam/Celia the temp/Ainsley subplot drove me nuts. 

Celia is a (poorly constructed) strawman, that Sorkin slapped together, in order to refute.

[Sarah 103]

On 9/24/2024 at 12:47 PM, Good Queen Jane said:

I would ditch the Zoe kidnapping plot. It just seemed so contrived.Fortunately  the show dropped it quickly. I wonder how Sorkin was planning to resolve it.

Sorkin knew he was leaving the series at the end of season 4 and that someone else would be writing season 5. He never planned to resolve it himself. He knew he wouldn't have it. He thought he was making things easier for the next person. Instead of the next person having to figure out what should be the start of the season, they had a storyline all ready to go-how to resolve Zoe's kidnapping. 

[CdrJanny]

I have been convinced since my 2nd or 3rd rewatch of the leak arc that Toby took the fall for CJ.  Why, I don't know, but watch the episodes closely.

[oceanblue]

I agree she looks guilty but I honestly don't think she'd let Toby take the fall and lie to Jed by omission

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, oceanblue said:

but I honestly don't think she'd let Toby take the fall

Yeah, she's one of very few people he'd do that for, but their relationship means the reverse is true, she'd never let him do that for her.

[Fool to cry]

Having rewatched the first season X-mas episode I can believe Toby would do what  Where they erred was treating it like a mystery. It should have been from his POV from the start. Grappling with his decision, knowing what it could mean losing everything and the show treating it like a brave act of self sacrifice instead of a betrayal.

On 9/24/2024 at 9:47 AM, Good Queen Jane said:

I would ditch the Zoe kidnapping plot. It just seemed so contrived.Fortunately  the show dropped it quickly. I wonder how Sorkin was planning to resolve it.

 

On 9/25/2024 at 11:00 AM, Sarah 103 said:

Sorkin knew he was leaving the series at the end of season 4 and that someone else would be writing season 5. He never planned to resolve it himself. He knew he wouldn't have it. He thought he was making things easier for the next person. Instead of the next person having to figure out what should be the start of the season, they had a storyline all ready to go-how to resolve Zoe's kidnapping. 

Sorkin did have a resolution:

 

Edited September 27 by Fool to cry

[Fool to cry]

I finally realized what bothered me about Moira Kelly's voice. She always sounds like she's in the middle of a yawn.