Season 01 (Special Ops: Lioness)

[Rickster]

Sort of liked the first episode, although I am confused about the plan, and can’t figure why any terrorist financier would let an American get close to his operations, whether her parents were born in Abu Dhabi or not. Not sure how Cruz’s skills fit with this either.

Episode 2 went downhill. I had zero interest in the domestic angst or watching parents of a little girl being told she was going to die. Also did not care for the extended torture sequence.

i have a free subscription to Paramount+ running out next week. Not sure this will be worth renewing it for.

[Genus]

So as this is a Taylor Sheridan production I thought I'd give it a chance, but after 2 episodes in I won't put it on my must watch list.

I find the characters too over the top especially Cruz, too much angst and 1 dimensional. One minute she's running down the street screaming for help from her BF, next minute she's beating up multiple special forces trained soldiers... Give me fucking a break. Sorry Sheridan, but you can not write women, this is evident in all your shows, time to give up.

 

[Rickster]

1 hour ago, Genus said:

I find the characters too over the top especially Cruz, too much angst and 1 dimensional. One minute she's running down the street screaming for help from her BF, next minute she's beating up multiple special forces trained soldiers... Give me fucking a break. Sorry Sheridan, but you can not write women, this is evident in all your shows, time to give up.

 

If I'm not mistaken, there is a four year gap between her running down the street and her beating up special ops guys. The show glossed over all her training and post induction experiences in a couple of sentences.

[Genus]

2 hours ago, Rickster said:

If I'm not mistaken, there is a four year gap between her running down the street and her beating up special ops guys. The show glossed over all her training and post induction experiences in a couple of sentences.

To be honest, I was so bored watching it, that I could of missed that, but bearing in mind she was nothing more than a low level Marine, and these guys looked like battle hardened Spec ops, I still find it unbelievable she could get the better of them. If it was a 4 year gap, the Marines certainly didn't knock the attitude out of her, as she showed total lack of respect to her superiors. 

I was so looking forward to watching this, but like a lot the hyped up shows that have been released recently (I'm talking to you Marvel) I won't be rushing to watch the rest of the series.

[Rickster]

The intro to her flipping burgers says “four years earlier”. I think they mention her current rank is sergeant. Mostly the guys she’s beating up in episode 2 are CIA operators, not Marines, except the guy who wouldn’t wear headgear.

[Genus]

43 minutes ago, Rickster said:

The intro to her flipping burgers says “four years earlier”. I think they mention her current rank is sergeant. Mostly the guys she’s beating up in episode 2 are CIA operators, not Marines, except the guy who wouldn’t wear headgear.

I knew they weren't Marines, but even CIA operators are technically classed as Spec Ops, and would have had a lot more training than the standard Marine. The fact that her way over the top aggressiveness who showed zero restraint would of had her kicked out of the military along time ago. 

No way would the Marines put up with her aggressive and piss poor attitude and obvious lack of respect to her superiors. 

[AntFTW]

Ok, I'm kinda liking it so far. I originally thought this was a movie so apparently, I wasn't paying much attention. I felt like the episodes dragged a little.

[Charlemagne]

9 hours ago, Genus said:

So as this is a Taylor Sheridan production I thought I'd give it a chance, but after 2 episodes in I won't put it on my must watch list.

I find the characters too over the top especially Cruz, too much angst and 1 dimensional. One minute she's running down the street screaming for help from her BF, next minute she's beating up multiple special forces trained soldiers... Give me fucking a break. Sorry Sheridan, but you can not write women, this is evident in all your shows, time to give up.

 

There was a four-year gap between those two events.

[SeanBug]

I kinda liked it. I only watched up to when they grabbed her off the street to see how she'd handle it. 

I felt bad for Neal having to tell those parents their daughter would not make it.  But the husband hitting him? WTF   If I talked to my Mother the way their eldest daughter talked to Joe, or Neal for that matter, I wouldn't have seen daylight for weeks.  The phone would have been taken away permanently. As well as anything else I wanted to do. 

At least these female characters aren't psychopaths like Beth Dutton.  

[AnimeMania]

S01.E03: Bruise Like a Fist

Cruz is invited to spend the weekend with Aaliyah and her inner-circle. Joe keeps Kaitlyn informed of Cruz's progress. Kyle comes to Joe desperate for help with an asset.

Premiere Date: July 30, 2023        Paramount+

[Snazzy Daisy]

Huh??? Another lines about ravaging by the beach...

This must be Sheridan's ultimate male fantasy! 

😆😆😆

[munchiewoman]

Just starting this episode but already I'm annoyed.  Her backstory should be hard grained into her, not a talk as she's driving there.  What she's studying should be REAL, she is actually studying it.  Just because someone can take a beating doesn't mean they would be good for this act - she should be educated, sophisticated, TRAINED.

And why are Joe and Nicole Kidman talking about secret stuff in a public place?  Oh, and then she tells the guy outside that she can't talk about things on a public street.  This kind of stuff really pulls me out of the story.

And she pulls up to a very rich person's house and the guy asks if she has any bags and she says, "Just one.  I can get it."  Seriously, she's pretending to be rich.  They wouldn't do that.

Edited July 31, 2023 by munchiewoman

[SeanBug]

After the last episode, I think I'm done, or it'll be hate watching. 

I work with a young man whose father was in Naval Intelligence, he said these programs where they make military personnel endure torture has resulted in more deaths and lawsuits than the public will ever know. 

What did the target's fiance do again? I'd like to know what threat he is to the US more than a bunch of rich girl drama.  And why are we letting friends and relatives of suspected terrorists in the US?  

I think Sheridan has achieved so much "acclaim" from Yellowstone, which is not a well written show by any stretch of the imagination, so he's just slapping shit together as fast as Paramount will buy it. The only thing I've watched of his recently that is any good is "1923".  

I don't even know who Kidman's character is. Is she Joe's CIA supervisor?  

And I swear if I have to endure one more show with a bratty little teenage girl who should have her butt grounded til she's 21, I will throw something at the tv. 

The Last Thing he Told Me, Justified: City Primeval, And Just Like That,  Lioness.    

 

 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E04: The Choice of Failure

Cruz is put in a compromising position while out with Aaliyah and friends in the Hamptons; causing Joe and Kaitlyn to doubt her. Kaitlyn and Westfield confront Kyle over what happened at the border, complicating things further for Joe and her team.

Premiere Date: August 6, 2023          Paramount+

[munchiewoman]

These people are really bad spies.

[AntFTW]

I feel like I may have to watch the show again all at once when all of the episodes are out.

This plot is moving insanely slow.

[Snazzy Daisy]

So, the secret destination is just the Hamptons??! Very anticlimactic.

Quote

"You don't have the skills for clandestine work.”

- Joe to Cruz

 

Quote

“She can’t manage a weekend in New York. How’s she gonna navigate Riyadh or Damascus?”

- Kaitlyn re Cruz

Geez, the viewers have been wondering the same about Cruz…

🙄🙄🙄

I hope the baby will survive. It will be interesting to watch 14yo bratty Kate raising her own child. She’s so critical of her parents.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[AnimeMania]

S01.E05: Truth is the Shrewdest Lie

Joe and Neal deal with the aftermath of Kate's accident. Westfield and Kaitlyn deploy Joe's team to subdue a terrorist threat. Cruz's cover may be in jeopardy.

Premiere Date: August 13, 2023         Paramount+

[Snazzy Daisy]

Hmmm, 5 episodes in and still NO Morgan Freeman??! The promos are very deceiving. 🙄

Neal, you’re in f-king denial dude. Open your eyes!

[dwmarch]

Well, I liked Mayor of Kingstown and this show has the exact same vibe to it so I'm onboard for whatever this season brings us.

Also getting strong vibes of first season 24 here although that could be due to the daughter's car accident plot.

Nicole Kidman looks weird, I can't pin down what it is about her but her face is disturbing in this show. Could be that she's doing that reverse-aging thing celebrities do now where they end up looking younger than they were 20-30 years ago.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E06: The Lie is the Truth

Aaliyah bonds with Cruz over a spa day. Bobby, Tex, Two Cups, Randy, and Tucker confront a threat at the Safe House. Kaitlyn and Joe are scolded for the San Antonio mission in a debrief.

Premiere Date: August 20, 2023          Paramount+

[Snazzy Daisy]

The anticipated hot kiss ✅

The highly-trained QRF team is more than capable to neutralize the home invasion situation. There’s no need for Kyle to be there. What a pointless arc!

[dwmarch]

So there is Morgan Freeman! Always fun to hear him say "this is some bullshit" in that legendary voice. But I wish the show had done a bit more to spell out who he was. They are at the White House but the President isn't there. But there are a group of angry bureaucrats present to remind everyone that this CIA-on-American-soil plot is not even legal. Okay, that is nice... but who are they? I think someone called Morgan Freeman Mr. Secretary. Secretary of what? Defense? Commerce? The Interior?

Also, who is Nicole Kidman's husband? He is glued to the newspaper at all times, apparently doesn't like sex (maybe he can't get over Nicole Kidman's doll-like face either) and says sage but ambiguous things every time she walks into the room. He's worth brokering information to and from even though she's the CIA director! He's a finance guy. The puppet master pulling the strings of the CIA?

For some reason I have the impression that the unseen bad guy will not actually be the bad guy after all, it will be the bride who will be behind it all. She's smart and crafty and she has done things that suggest she's into counter-surveillance. If the good guys can have Lionesses why can't the bad guys?

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

The highly-trained QRF team is more than capable to neutralize the home invasion situation. There’s no need for Kyle to be there. What a pointless arc!

I think there are two possible reasons for this. First, Kyle can get $30,000 on an ask but the QRF can't (although they do seem to spend money like it is water). Second, I have a feeling this is going to come back and bite him in the ass later. One of those kids is going to call the cops or something and then they will be in the position of having to murder three teenagers and anyone else nearby which they are probably not authorized to do.

[Pike Ludwell]

I agree the torture scene went on too long. It was lazy filler and a misjudgment as to what an audience wants to see. And she didn't receive any serious, lasting injury from all that? And they had a man basically removing her pants? Before Round 2 she should have objected vigorously, demanded it cease, and then sued them for tens of millions of dollars and retired for an enjoyable life in the South Pacific.

And at the end of it good for her for, despite orders to stand down, beating the hell out of the guy. So he was her superior. Looking through all that, he was a guy who wrongly beat her up and he deserved to suffer for it.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Pike Ludwell

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:45 AM, dwmarch said:

Well, I liked Mayor of Kingstown and this show has the exact same vibe to it so I'm onboard for whatever this season brings us.

Also getting strong vibes of first season 24 here although that could be due to the daughter's car accident plot.

Nicole Kidman looks weird, I can't pin down what it is about her but her face is disturbing in this show. Could be that she's doing that reverse-aging thing celebrities do now where they end up looking younger than they were 20-30 years ago.

I wish this show were more reminiscent of 24 S1. More excitement, more twists, more naked Mandy. :)

So far, not much has played out and what has played out has been fairly predictable. It was almost a given that Aaliyah and Cruz would make out.

So far we have had one sexual assault/torture and one attempted sexual assault. Bad guys are (as far as we know) utterly clueless about Cruz

If it turns out that Aaliyah is more than the pouty spoiled relative of a terrorist but is herself a terrorist, good on you, show. 

If the show doesn't have scenes where Cruz has second thoughts about her mission because she's developing feels for Aaliyah, or at least where Joe has concerns that Cruz is developing feels, I will be very surprised.

I often find myself asking "Why am I watching this?" and the answer is pretty much trusting in Zoe Saldana, Nicole Kidman and Morgan Freeman not to be wrapped in a project that sucks. Right now, the highlight of most episodes are the commercials for the Bass Reeves show.

[SeanBug]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:17 AM, dwmarch said:

So there is Morgan Freeman! Always fun to hear him say "this is some bullshit" in that legendary voice. But I wish the show had done a bit more to spell out who he wa

He's the Secretary of State. They mentioned earlier he would be in the debriefing of the San Antonio incident. 

So what was the team supposed to do when they know Al Quaeda members have a bomb in a house there?  

I loved Michael Kelly (CIA Deputy Director)  saying "we're making teeshirts with 'you're goddamn fucking right we did it' printed on them."

So they're going to sacrifice Cruz to take this fiance guy out with a drone attack at a wedding?  A drone attack at a wedding.. How original.

You guys know you can just pull her at the last minute, she can let you know where they're going. It's in Majorca, you have people who can find out where it's happening.  

Cruz does need to up her game.  Uhh, I've never seen movies or the ocean or ridden on a plane or nothing. 

At this point she is truly unnecessary.  They have the info they need. Take the guy out.

I don't get why they had to have the daughter in a car accident, other than to redeem her by scaring the shit out of her. 

47 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Bass Reeves show.

I kept calling it the Lance Bass show in my mind. But yeah I'm looking forward to it. 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

26 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

He's the Secretary of State. They mentioned earlier he would be in the debriefing of the San Antonio incident. 

So what was the team supposed to do when they know Al Quaeda members have a bomb in a house there?  

I loved Michael Kelly (CIA Deputy Director)  saying "we're making teeshirts with 'you're goddamn fucking right we did it' printed on them."

So they're going to sacrifice Cruz to take this fiance guy out with a drone attack at a wedding?  A drone attack at a wedding.. How original.

You guys know you can just pull her at the last minute, she can let you know where they're going. It's in Majorca, you have people who can find out where it's happening.  

Cruz does need to up her game.  Uhh, I've never seen movies or the ocean or ridden on a plane or nothing. 

At this point she is truly unnecessary.  They have the info they need. Take the guy out.

I don't get why they had to have the daughter in a car accident, other than to redeem her by scaring the shit out of her. 

I kept calling it the Lance Bass show in my mind. But yeah I'm looking forward to it. 

 

I suppose the option would be to turn the info over to government agencies that are legally authorized to operate within the U.S. like the FBI or ATF and let them do the op. There's no real reason why that wasn't considered that I can see other than "we can do it better ourselves and the chances of us getting caught are pretty small."

The trouble with trying to pull Cruz at the last minute is that you presumably need/want eyes on the ground to make sure the targets are present, and you don't want to spook the target into thinking "hey, isn't it weird that sudden best friend who just met the bride like a month ago is AWOL...maybe something's up."

I mean, it's possible that Cruz hasn't watched horror movies or movies in general. A lot of people - particularly 20-something former strippers who enlisted in the military -- probably haven't been to the ocean or ridden in a private jet. I don't think she was saying those things as part of her cover. I assume she really hasn't done those things.

I would say that there will be plot developments that will make keeping Cruz under necessary. A last minute switch from Mallorca to somewhere else, Cruz warming Aaliyah's sudden case of wedding cold feet (not like that), or something.

I suppose there's supposed to be parallelism about how Joe regrets not being their for her bio-daughter and how she inevitably feels when she has to confront the choice to let Cruz be a sacrificial lioness or blow the op. And of course, by genre conventions she will somehow find a way to save Cruz and accomplish the mission. I would love it if the show had the huevos to have Joe just say, "Bye, Felicia...this is what you signed up for" to Cruz, or to have Joe decide to go off-script to save Cruz and failed miserably both at saving her and killing the terrorists. 

[SeanBug]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I suppose the option would be to turn the info over to government agencies that are legally authorized to operate within the U.S. like the FBI or ATF and let them do the op. There's no real reason why that wasn't considered that I can see other than "we can do it better ourselves and the chances of us getting caught are pretty small."

The trouble with trying to pull Cruz at the last minute is that you presumably need/want eyes on the ground to make sure the targets are present, and you don't want to spook the target into thinking "hey, isn't it weird that sudden best friend who just met the bride like a month ago is AWOL...maybe something's up."

I mean, it's possible that Cruz hasn't watched horror movies or movies in general. A lot of people - particularly 20-something former strippers who enlisted in the military -- probably haven't been to the ocean or ridden in a private jet. I don't think she was saying those things as part of her cover. I assume she really hasn't done those things.

I would say that there will be plot developments that will make keeping Cruz under necessary. A last minute switch from Mallorca to somewhere else, Cruz warming Aaliyah's sudden case of wedding cold feet (not like that), or something.

I suppose there's supposed to be parallelism about how Joe regrets not being their for her bio-daughter and how she inevitably feels when she has to confront the choice to let Cruz be a sacrificial lioness or blow the op. And of course, by genre conventions she will somehow find a way to save Cruz and accomplish the mission. I would love it if the show had the huevos to have Joe just say, "Bye, Felicia...this is what you signed up for" to Cruz, or to have Joe decide to go off-script to save Cruz and failed miserably both at saving her and killing the terrorists. 

I thought they said ATF was on site.  I think the point of this is that the CIA and FBI are still having inter agency squabbles, which was one of the reasons Sept 11 happened. They wouldn't share intel with each other. 

Cruz doesn't have to be with Aayilah every second of every day til the wedding. She can stay undercover til she knows the wedding details, then tell them she'll be there, then not show up.  It's too late for anyone to do anything.  Hell Cruz can text her and say "my flight was delayed". 

[dwmarch]

7 hours ago, SeanBug said:

So they're going to sacrifice Cruz to take this fiance guy out with a drone attack at a wedding?

No, Cruz is supposed to take him out by any means necessary. So the idea is that wherever and whenever she meets him, she will improvise a weapon and kill him on the spot. The drone strike is for her, after she has been captured and is in the process of being tortured. She could possibly escape but they are assuming that won't be the case.

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There's no real reason why that wasn't considered that I can see other than "we can do it better ourselves and the chances of us getting caught are pretty small."

Having seen far too many shows and movies where the squad of Ultimate Badasses are the only ones who can save the world (even though they aren't even supposed to be there today), there is some element of this. Having said that, they also wanted to make sure no witnesses would be left alive as well, something the cops might not be as willing to do.

[Chicago Redshirt]

33 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

I thought they said ATF was on site.  I think the point of this is that the CIA and FBI are still having inter agency squabbles, which was one of the reasons Sept 11 happened. They wouldn't share intel with each other. 

Cruz doesn't have to be with Aayilah every second of every day til the wedding. She can stay undercover til she knows the wedding details, then tell them she'll be there, then not show up.  It's too late for anyone to do anything.  Hell Cruz can text her and say "my flight was delayed". 

Jo and her team were posing as ATF. If there was an in-universe reason to not get the real ATF involved other than "we're here, we're better than the locals, we can do it now," I don't think the show identified it. (As opposed to the Doylist reason that the show's PTB want to showcase Our Heroes being bad-asses who don't care about no stinkin' rules).

And the plan is not to drone strike the target because of the possibilities of both collateral damage and actually missing the specific target. The plan is for a Cruz kill, not a Cruise missile kill, if you will.   

[SeanBug]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Jo and her team were posing as ATF. If there was an in-universe reason to not get the real ATF involved other than "we're here, we're better than the locals, we can do it now," I don't think the show identified it. (As opposed to the Doylist reason that the show's PTB want to showcase Our Heroes being bad-asses who don't care about no stinkin' rules).

And the plan is not to drone strike the target because of the possibilities of both collateral damage and actually missing the specific target. The plan is for a Cruz kill, not a Cruise missile kill, if you will.   

But someone is asking Jo and her team to go on these missions. They aren't just reading Texas newspapers and saying, "hey let's go start some shit in San Antonio, etc."  If they're CIA special ops teams, then the Deputy Director or Kaitlyn or whoever is responsible, the team is just following orders. 

And, as we are all aware, it's just a show and rules don't apply, esp in the Taylor Sheridan universe. 

[roughing it]

On 8/16/2023 at 1:45 AM, dwmarch said:

Nicole Kidman looks weird, I can't pin down what it is about her but her face is disturbing in this show. Could be that she's doing that reverse-aging thing celebrities do now where they end up looking younger than they were 20-30 years ago.

To me it looks like she got her lips plumped (injected? implants?) along with a bunch of botox.  She's beautiful, why do these beautiful women ruin their looks with these silly treatments/surgeries?

[AnimeMania]

S01.E07: Wish the Fight Away

While shopping in Manhattan for the wedding, Aaliyah and Cruz get closer. Kate returns home only to say goodbye to her mom once again. Joe guides Cruz through internal struggle and doubt in completing the mission.

Premiere Date: August 27, 2023          Paramount+

[HerkyJerky]

Any predictions of who’s gonna get killed next week?

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

Any predictions of who’s gonna get killed next week?

I mean, apart from Jo and Cruz, most of the people are interchangeable and disposable. We're seven episodes in, and pretty much all we got is Woman Badass, and three to four Male Badasses, one of which seems to be Black and another of which tells Cruz where she can get a bunk, plus Outside Screwup Badass, and Jo's Badass Boss. 

I assume Jo's Badass Boss has plot armor  because she's played by Nicole Kidman. But maybe it's the reverse and her death would be meant to make things more  serious. Do it for Badass Boss! But it seems unlikely that she would/should be in the line of fire.

Outside Screwup Badass probably needs to redeem himself for his previous screwup by dying. Plus his death doesn't reflet poorly on Jo's badassery. 

It's entirely possible the answer is zero casualties.

My spoiler-free predictions:

1. Daddy terrorist is actually in Majorca and meets Cruz

2. Someone -- whether it's him, fiance, the guy who wanted Cruz but got shut down by her -- senses something amiss about the Cruz/Aaliyah interactions and tries to get proof of his suspicions.

3. Cruz shuts down that search for proof violently, killing in quasi-self-defense

4. Aaliyah shows up to discover that Cruz is More than Meets the Eye and dithers for a while about her loyalty to daddy/daddy's money/etc. 

5. Something leads the team to prematurely send a drone to strike the site of the party

6.Jo decides to not let Cruz be collateral damage like the Lioness in the pilot and facilitates her successful extraction.

7. Aaliyah survives to become radicalized by the death of her father and vows revenge on Cruz and the Americans.

8. Jo realizes she can't just quit killing them terrorists despite the cost to her family.

9. Cruz is ready to get reinserted in some other sitch.

[dwmarch]

Did someone order lesbians? Leather-clad lipstick lesbians? I'll just leave them here at the front door I guess so that nobody misses them.

Once again, I think Aaliyah is the real player here. Her security dude asked if he should chase Cruz and she said no, probably because she didn't want to blow her cover.

Speaking of which, why is Cruz's listening device a relatively giant piece of tech with a bright light on it? Hollywood has convinced me that microphones and transmitters are now small enough to basically be hidden almost literally anywhere. Like for example, I bet that Aaliyah has planted such a device in one of the buttons on Cruz's coat.

[Cranberry]

I can see it going either way, really. Either Aaliyah is working with the terrorists, is aware of the Lioness program, and is like "I'll do you one better and break your spy's heart," or her feelings are legit and she dies horribly. Either way, that reignites Cruz's desire to take down terrorists. Also either way, Cruz pretty much has to walk away from this in the end for the "Joe couldn't save the last one, but she saves this one" parallel.

(I think the latter is more likely, btw; I can't see someone from a place where homosexuality is criminalized/considered a sin engaging in sexual activity when she doesn't have to. Cruz was already going to stick close to her no matter what.)

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

It is very much something I wonder about. 

It seems like the notion that Aaliyah would risk cheating on her fiancé at all, let alone with a woman, let alone a woman she just met, let alone in a situation where the bodyguard might pick up on the three hours of them banging doesn't seem smart. Like I don't know how it coincides with the narrative of "I'm trapped and friendless and have to go through with the bargain someone else made for my life." Or what Aaliyah foresees/allegedly wants for this relationship. Does she really think of this as the one-night stand that Joe seems to think she does? Is she in love with Cruz, as she professes to Cruz? Has she been hooking up with women before, or is there something about Cruz that got her interested? Is she attracted to men/her fiancé or just going through the motion to avoid getting killed?

Cheating, particularly with a woman, seems like a very likely trip to death for Aaliyah if Daddy/future husband are at all what they've been hinted at.

It would be an interesting twist if Aaliyah was a mastermind/complicit in the terrorism, is more in control and the know than she lets on, and just was trying to flip Cruz. But I somehow don't think the show is meaning to go there.

[chaifan]

I'm only through episode 6, so I skipped over the last few comments...  A few thoughts about the series so far...  In general, I like it, it's something new in the copy/military/anti-terrorism theme show genre.  The acting is pretty good, the casting is pretty good.  It does it's job of entertaining me.  But...

I am horribly bored by Jo's home life scenes, and the accident with her daughter seemed rather shoehorned in.  Also, did I hear right that the daughter is 14???  Geez, make her 16 at least, especially considering the dad was ok with under the shirt action. 

Cruz getting so BFF with her mark so soon, so easily, doesn't seem realistic.  I think it would have been more interesting to see her work for it a bit.  Cruz's fake backstory seems to be shit, and so obvious shit, and contrary to Cruz's initial presentation as someone who's prepared for anything. 

In what world can an entire ATF/swat/whatever team roll into a neighborhood and not be seen by a single neighbor?  Same for the Hamptons scene - no one heard the car window be smashed out?  They trotted those guys outside at gunpoint without concern that a neighbor may be coming home late, or out walking a dog or whatever? 

Nichole Kidman - what accent is she going for?  It's just weird.

I'm interested to see how the season ends up, if Cruz completes her mission.  I think it's a given that Cruz lives, though. 

 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E08: Gone is the Illusion of Order
(Season Finale)

Unforeseen circumstances leaves the mission in jeopardy. A suspicious Eshan confronts Cruz before his wedding day. Joe and the team prepare for the worst.

Premiere Date: September 3, 2023          Paramount+

[SeanBug]

First, I want Michael Kelley in all my tv shows. He was the best part of Jack Ryan's last season, and I love how he calls out Sec of State and the others on their bullshit.  

This show started out a little shaky (IMO) and I like for the most part how it ended. 

 

[Cranberry]

That was interesting. I fully expected Cruz to make it out (although I expected the extraction to be much trickier), but I thought she'd have more trouble killing her target. I also thought Aaliyah would end up killed or horribly punished in some way, but it looks like she made it through without any physical harm.

The show's been so pro-America and so one-note in its portrayal of everyone else as murderous villains that I'm not sure Cruz's last-minute "what we're doing here is pointless" speech makes up for that, but at least it was unexpected.

[SeanBug]

I was really caught off guard with the scene in the kitchen, even tho I knew the fiance had figured out who she is.  FFS the CIA didn't go thru the internet and wipe every trace of her real past life, and create a new one. Come on! 

I was all la de dah, the Father seems nice enough, even tho we know what he's doing funding terrorists, then BAM!!! I swear that scene and her running out of the compound my adrenaline was thru the roof.  Dad's security sucks, how in the Hell did they not hit Cruz once?  I have to give it to the QRF team, they got shit done. 

I'm kind of disappointed it ended so abruptly.  I hope they pick up where this season ended for S2. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

I enjoy the finale, feels a bit rushed though. What’s with the abrupt ending?

Joe’s family drama is so unnecessary. Who cares about a spoiled brat having a nightmare or why her husband has eye bags & grey hair.

Byron needs to put Joe on a desk job, pronto. No longer handling assets etc. Kaitlyn won’t do anything because she loves babying and chauffeuring her.

Joe’s previous asset was outed because of her tattoo, she didn’t vet her thoroughly. And Cruz is outed because her internet/social media presence hasn’t been scrubbed entirely. FFS.

The scene where Kaitlyn yells at Cruz:

“Did you hit the target? Marine, look at me! Did you hit the target? The ace of spades is dead.”

Nicole Kidman’s lips movement in this scene is really weird, it puts me off.

If this show is renewed for S2, I’d like to see more of QRF team on missions. Don’t really need to see Kaitlyn, Joe and her family dramas. Keep Byron, he’s a treasure.

Knowing who the show runner/writer is, it will be a long wait for S2 to materialize, unfortunately.

[dwmarch]

I was certain Aaliyah was going to be a part of the family business somehow because otherwise she is the absolute stereotype of the American idea of an oppressed Muslim woman. But I guess we saved nuance for the oil politics and left it out for the characters. Maybe she'll be the villain in season 2.

Having said that, I do really like the team vibe of the QRF. Everything I know about these types of commando units comes from G.I. Joe, Tom Clancy novels and shows like SEAL Team but this team felt like real soldiers to me. Like when they get onto the yacht, what's the first thing they do? They inventory their gear because they know stuff can get lost in transit and they'd rather find out sooner than later. That was a nice touch. There are some Youtube channels where former Special Forces/Tier 1, etc types critique these shows and I'd love to see what they say about this show because I think if they got nothing else right, they had a great advisor for the military aspects.

Taylor Sheridan shows (at least the ones I have seen) don't skimp on the brutality so the kills on Terror Dad and Terror Husband were great. Cruz didn't stab them once and walk away, she knifed the shit out of them in multiple spots. I noticed she took the extra moment to slice the dad's neck but she didn't do the same for the son so I wonder if he might have survived. But I'm pretty sure we cut back to the scene later and he's still on the floor so I guess not.

17 hours ago, SeanBug said:

FFS the CIA didn't go thru the internet and wipe every trace of her real past life, and create a new one. Come on! 

I thought it was somewhat realistic that a black swan like that could happen. The Lioness program probably does a deep dive on a person's digital identity but does that include running facial recognition on Facebook pictures? The profile was some other Marine's and Cruz may not have even been tagged in the picture so there was no way for the CIA to find it other than to use methods that are probably not legal in the US.

Speaking of bureaucratic entanglements, the State Department wants to be in charge of the operation but the CIA just went ahead and did their own thing anyhow. The first half of the episode is a bunch of infighting about how impossible it will be to extract Cruz. But if the idea was to scrub the mission, why are they all gathered in the White House Situation Room? I don't work at the State Department, CIA or anything even close to either but when my boss decides we're not doing something we don't hold an all hands on deck meeting where the employees get to argue that they should be allow to go ahead while simultaneously doing the work that we were told we weren't going to do.

Edited September 4, 2023 by dwmarch

[HerkyJerky]

The ending was just too pat.  Does anyone think that this was an alternate ending since TS isn't sure there will be a second season because of the strikes?

[chaifan]

Overall, the series was OK.  Not great, not bad, just ok.  Decent premise, something we haven't really seen before.  Just knowing that the Lioness program is a real thing is sorta cool, too.  But still, it resulted in a just ok show for me.

I didn't buy Cruz being so head over heels in love with Aaliyah.  They have absolutely nothing in common, there was never any substance to their relationship.  I didn't even buy them as BFF's, let alone star crossed lovers.  I think part if it is because Cruz is played so unemotional.  She'd make a good Vulcan.  But other than what seemed to be good sex, I just didn't see a connection there at all. 

That said, I was prepared for Cruz to go back into the house to "save" Aaliyah.  I'm thinking that there's a good chance she gets killed by her family for letting a Marine infiltrate the house and kill both her father and fiancee.  (That was the fiancee, right?  Someone above referred to him as the brother.)  Oh, and also for being a lesbian (or bi). 

The million guys shooting a bazillion bullets and not one hitting Cruz was Storm Trooper level of unbelievable.  It would have made more sense for her to have a bit more of an advance start, be out of range for most of what we saw, and just be dodging bullets at the very end.  The fight between her and Jo on the boat was also stupid.

The whole situation room - oh maybe we shouldn't kill the oil baron terrorist after all now that we think about it, oops, are we a little late for that, oh, my bad - was more annoying than anything else.  I liked the sit room scene an episode or two earlier, where they were getting grilled about extrajudicial killings.  But if killing oil guy was such a bad thing, why didn't they say so then?  Jo and Kaitlyn's home life scenes were boring, and added nothing to the story.

So in a show about female Marines, of the three main female characters we have two who collapse in tears at the end of the mission, one of whom proclaims she's quitting; and only the "suit", the stereotypical bitch in heels, remains steeled the entire time.  So much for female empowerment. 

Oh, and isn't one of the hallmarks of these incredibly wealthy weddings - of any religion - that the women change outfits multiple times a day?  How did Cruz pack in just a carry on?  And nothing else says "I'm a Marine undercover" more than a woman who wears an oversize white tee and boxers to bed while staying at a palatial mansion.  She might as well have been wearing army greens to bed.

Sorry, I'm cranky and critical this morning. 

I'm wondering if they will keep Cruz for the second season.  Not sure how that will work out, as she has seemingly burnt one big bridge.  Or do they start fresh with a new lioness each season? 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I have a tough time thinking why the Lioness program wouldn't do facial recognition on the assets, knowing that the terrorists potentially might. It makes the program seem either lazy or incompetent or both that rando bad guy can come up with the marine connection in literally under a minute of feeding Cruz's picture into a computer.

I'm not sure what Terror Dad was doing in the same kitchen where Cruz was since the men and women were supposed to be separated, or how he didn't hear Cruz trying to talk herself into completing the mission enough to be like "What is this random woman doing talking about the mission?" Or why Cruz felt the need to vocalize her need to pump up her confidence. I've not been trained to be an infiltrating assassin, but I think I probably would have it on lock that i wouldn't say anything about my having a "mission" out loud.

There are probably a half-dozen better ways for Terror Fiance to have handled the discovery of Cruz being a Marine then wandering solo into the kitchen (where he presumably would have had no reason to think that either she or Terror dad were) and yelling "She's a Marine!" But if he were at all competent in that regard there would have been no plausible way for Cruz to have carried out the assassination, or at least, for Cruz to have been successfully extracted. 

i think I would have liked this better if it had been stripped of pretty much all of the non-mission stuff and spent more time building up the characters. 

[AntFTW]

I liked the show but it dragged out a lot. Watching the trailer way back when, my expectations were pretty high. The show wasn't bad, and I'd watch if they have a second season but it didn't quite meet those expectations.

I feel like they had an all-star cast and the show has much more potential if it gets a second season.

[SeanBug]

18 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I was certain Aaliyah was going to be a part of the family business somehow because otherwise she is the absolute stereotype of the American idea of an oppressed Muslim woman. But I guess we saved nuance for the oil politics and left it out for the characters. Maybe she'll be the villain in season 2.

Having said that, I do really like the team vibe of the QRF. Everything I know about these types of commando units comes from G.I. Joe, Tom Clancy novels and shows like SEAL Team but this team felt like real soldiers to me. Like when they get onto the yacht, what's the first thing they do? They inventory their gear because they know stuff can get lost in transit and they'd rather find out sooner than later. That was a nice touch. There are some Youtube channels where former Special Forces/Tier 1, etc types critique these shows and I'd love to see what they say about this show because I think if they got nothing else right, they had a great advisor for the military aspects.

Taylor Sheridan shows (at least the ones I have seen) don't skimp on the brutality so the kills on Terror Dad and Terror Husband were great. Cruz didn't stab them once and walk away, she knifed the shit out of them in multiple spots. I noticed she took the extra moment to slice the dad's neck but she didn't do the same for the son so I wonder if he might have survived. But I'm pretty sure we cut back to the scene later and he's still on the floor so I guess not.

I thought it was somewhat realistic that a black swan like that could happen. The Lioness program probably does a deep dive on a person's digital identity but does that include running facial recognition on Facebook pictures? The profile was some other Marine's and Cruz may not have even been tagged in the picture so there was no way for the CIA to find it other than to use methods that are probably not legal in the US.

Speaking of bureaucratic entanglements, the State Department wants to be in charge of the operation but the CIA just went ahead and did their own thing anyhow. The first half of the episode is a bunch of infighting about how impossible it will be to extract Cruz. But if the idea was to scrub the mission, why are they all gathered in the White House Situation Room? I don't work at the State Department, CIA or anything even close to either but when my boss decides we're not doing something we don't hold an all hands on deck meeting where the employees get to argue that they should be allow to go ahead while simultaneously doing the work that we were told we weren't going to do.

The argument Byron and Kaitlyn had was that Aaliyah's father had been No 1 on the US kill list of terrorists for 20 years, they had a plan in place, trained Cruz, had the site for the wedding confirmed, a destroyer that could be in place if they needed to launch missiles, etc. and the WH and State got cold feet after San Antonio and the botched extraction of the prisoner, and the fact CIA didn't coordinate with State to find out POTUS was in Paris.

Secretary of State didn't want to necessarily scrub the mission they just wanted to run it. It's the typical in fighting of various departments of the government. Remember this isn't how a mission like this would really work, it's fiction and it's got to be  more dramatic and tension filled. 

Zero Dark Thirty movie is much more realistic in how a mission like that is run. Months of debating the details, gathering intel etc. putting a team together, training them, the whole nine yards. Then waiting til they get the okay to go.  Remember how frustrated Maya, the character in the movie got, when it took forever for them to even consider what she had proposed.  

Lioness made it seem like all this took place in the span of a month or so once Joe brought Cruz in. The most unrealistic aspect for me is how Cruz became friends with Aaliyah just by "accidentally" running into her while out shopping in Manhattan. Next thing she knows, they're best friends, lovers, and she's at the wedding. The daughter of a man funding terrorist cells would never have been allowed to become fast friends with a stranger like that. 

IMO, YMMV.