Baby Reindeer - General Discussion

[Straycat80]

8 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

I still found the whole series incredibly impactful and appreciated it for what it was. I wish the media would stop giving her the attention she so desperately craves. 

Agree. This interview was a bad idea.  This woman is mentally ill, the media should leave her be.

[Cheezwiz]

I watched the entire series right before the Piers Morgan interview hit. It seems clear to me that Gad probably exaggerated some parts of the show for dramatic effect. He was not likeable, but was at least self-aware enough to depict it in the show. It also seems clear to me that this woman is seriously  mentally ill - she was contradicting herself all over the place. I'm hoping the media will ease up on giving her a platform.

Nonetheless, I thought there was a lot of valuable stuff to unpack from this series. It really illustrated how trauma can damage people and make them vulnerable to other predators. It's almost as if an invisible homing device is placed on victims that continually draws other abusive types into their orbit.

It also illustrated how people sometimes return (repeatedly) to the company of people who have assaulted them - feelings of shame, self-blame etc. This is baffling to people who haven't been through it, (it certainly was to me). The knee-jerk response to these situations is "why the hell would you go near this person again? Why didn't you call the police?" but I felt I had a much better understanding of of the turmoil, confusion and feelings of complicity that victims must feel, and that's not even touching on how awful police treatment is of people who attempt to report.

Major props to Jessica Gunning who portrayed Martha. She was magnificent - she managed to convey every imaginable emotion and nuance in her performance - seesawing between being pitiful, having the odd flash of charm, and being downright terrifying. I hope to see more from her in the future.

 I discussed this series with my colleagues after finishing it, and we all agreed that aside from the horrific depictions of assault that were featured, the most painful parts of the entire show were the main character's attempts at "comedy" performance. Truly painful and hard to watch.

[tennisgurl]

I went into this knowing that it would be a tough watch, but it turned out to be even rougher than I expected. It was a really intense, clearly very personal story, not something that was fun to watch but I am glad I did, there is obviously a whole lot to unpack here. 

One of the most interesting aspects of the show was definitely how it explored how complicated things can be between victims and their abusers and how it can lead people to be labeled as "good" victims and "bad" victims. Sometimes victims can do things that don't seem to make sense from the outside, like going back to the person who abused them and acting like nothing happened, and that can lead to a LOT of victim blaming from both the victim themselves and from others, especially the police. Also, Donny is not the most likable person out there, and the show is very aware of that. He's not a bad guy, but he's a massive sad sack, selfish, passive aggressive, and his utter passivity and need to be liked makes him so frustrating, but I think that was the point. Just because someone has a lot of negative traits and can be really aggravating doesn't mean its alright that they're victimized or that their abuse was their fault and not their abusers. 

I also think its important to share that sexual assault and stalking can happen to anyone regardless of gender, I do think that the cops would have taken things a lot more seriously if Donny had been a woman and Martha had been a man because there is the idea that a woman cant really threaten a man's safety like a man can threaten a woman's which seems ridiculous to me. As even Donny said, anyone can hold a weapon regardless of gender. 

I really hope that the media stops giving "Martha" platforms soon, this is clearly a very mentally unstable and dangerous person and giving her what she wants seems extremely dangerous for everyone involved. She doesn't seem to understand that yelling about how this is all a bunch of lies and that she is the real victim here is exactly what the Netflix Martha would do. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

Quote

The Cast of Baby Reindeer Speaks Out: “You Have to Practice Self-Preservation”

Netflix’s phenomenon is stirring up both rave reviews and real-world controversies. The stars of the series joined Vanity Fair for a frank chat about everything that’s got the world talking.

BY DAVID CANFIELD

MAY 15, 2024

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/story/baby-reindeer-cast-exclusive-postmortem-awards-insider

Quote

During his 10-hour flight from London to Los Angeles, Richard Gadd decided to catch up on the 250 or so unread messages on his phone. He’s been inundated since his Netflix series, Baby Reindeer, reached phenomenon status last month. After stepping off the plane and clearing customs, he then encountered a huge mob of fans. He wondered if someone famous had been on his flight. Then he saw what they were all holding: printout posters of his Baby Reindeer alter ego, Donny Dunn. “They were going crazy,” Gadd says. He signed as many as he could. The crowd followed him as he left.

“It feels like you’ve left your living room window open and there’s a cacophony of people shouting into it,” Gadd says later from a stuffy West Hollywood conference room. “You have to practice self-preservation [in] moments like these.”

No kidding. As Baby Reindeer, a small-scale British production that was not heavily promoted, has amassed tens of millions of views around the world, crashing this year’s Emmy race in the process, it’s put Gadd and his costars Jessica Gunning and Nava Mau—sitting on either side of him on this sunny Wednesday afternoon—under a microscope. The series is based on Gadd’s actual experience, following a struggling comedian and bartender whose own traumatic past leads to a dangerously toxic dynamic with his stalker, named Martha and played by Gunning in the show.

The empathetic, darkly funny approach to two vulnerable characters finding hope and despair in each other has resonated globally. It’s also caused controversy, as the scale of the show has led viewers to try tracking down the real-life stalker as well as the powerful TV producer who sexually abuses Donny.

Gadd and company have just completed a glitzy photo shoot and are still giddy from the previous evening’s celebratory Baby Reindeer For Your Consideration event. At the same time, a Scottish woman named Fiona Harvey has come forward to claim she was the inspiration for Martha, announcing that she will be speaking out in an extensive video interview with Piers Morgan. (In that interview, which happened after I spoke to Gadd and his costars, she called Baby Reindeer “defamatory” and argued that Gadd is “obsessed” with her. Netflix’s UK policy chief Benjamin King reiterated on Wednesday that the streamer and producers took “every reasonable precaution in disguising the real-life identities of the people involved in that story.” Vanity Fair has reached out to Gadd for comment.)

Since Reindeer’s premiere, Gadd has consistently said that he cannot and will not talk about the basis for Martha, while emphasizing that the real and fictional versions of her are substantially different. “I think it does a disservice to the art,” he says of the audience’s desire to find the inspirations for Reindeer’s characters. “I’ve spoken out publicly against it and said that I wanted to stop. I think that did have an impact.”

Would he have done anything differently, I ask, if he’d known the show would get as big as it has? “I can’t police the internet, and no matter what I would’ve done, you just don’t know how people are going to react to things. You can never predict the future,” he says. “You can’t second-guess yourself, or spend the creative process second-guessing yourself.”

For everyone involved with Baby Reindeer, the last month has been a lot to take in. “I have had to remind myself that I am not an infinite resource, and I actually am better able to do my work and serve my purpose by protecting my energy and practicing strong boundaries,” says Mau, who plays Donny’s girlfriend, Teri. “But it has overwhelmingly been an outpouring of love that I’ve received from people in all places.”

Mau’s nuanced performance grounds the series, with Teri navigating her affection for Donny as his trauma bubbles to the surface—and the ire of Martha once she becomes aware of the relationship. While Teri doesn’t figure prominently into the series’ endgame, Mau felt a sense of closure after filming a scene that did not make the final cut of the show. In that sequence, Teri leaves Donny a voicemail months after they’ve parted ways, telling him she’s watched his viral video—in which he reveals being sexually assaulted in a stunning stand-up monologue—and that she hopes he is finding peace. “It was a very nuanced, loving, clear, and adult and healed message,” Mau says.

Gadd shares a chunk of Teri’s dialogue from that scene with me: “‘I just wanted to say I saw how much you struggled, and I hope how much you’re going through right now helps you reach some sort of peace in your life. I’ve met a new man now, so don’t call me back. I thought I should let you know. Anyway, good luck, darling. Enjoy it.’” Gadd decided not to include that scene in order to maintain a level of surprise and heartbreak in the edit. We learn about Teri’s future more subtly without that extra context. “You have to kill your darlings,” he says.

It’s one of many specific Baby Reindeer beats that have generated discussion and speculation. Gunning, a British TV veteran who breathes searing life into Martha, has focused largely on defending her polarizing character. “Last night after the event, quite a lot of people were going, ‘You terrify me.’ And I’ve got this really fierce protection of her where I’m just like, ‘She isn’t scary, though!’” the actor says. “But then, of course, I see the show and I forget the bigger picture.”

Gunning is not on social media, but has been confronted with viewers’ opinions in public: “The other day I was walking down the street and I looked like Martha, [because of how I had my hair]. And a lady stepped in front of me and just screamed in front of my face.”

She has adamantly resisted the labeling of Martha as a villain—and labels are something that Gadd has generally hoped to eschew in the making of Baby Reindeer. Another example is Donny’s (and by extension, Gadd’s) sexuality, which is depicted as a profoundly confusing journey in the aftermath of the assault. (An otherwise positive NPR review claimed “the series repeatedly and clumsily conflates the horror of abuse with the simple fact of queer sexuality.”) Gadd, who identifies as bisexual, hoped to honor the many people who experience their sexuality as indefinitely unclear.

“A lot of people don’t fit into gay, straight, bisexual—they actually go through life questioning and wrestling with it almost the whole time,” he says. “When I was going through everything in my early 20s, I remember fundamentally feeling confused: ‘Okay, today I’m going to go down the street and I’m going to be straight today.’ ‘Okay, that didn’t work, I still don’t feel good, so I’m going to get up and I’m going to be gay today.’ ‘Okay, I’m going to get up and I’m going to be bi.’ None of the labels sat right with me.” Of Donny’s particular path, Gadd says, “When it comes to his sense of self, there is no clear answer and definition. Donny struggles with himself in every single respect…. Offering a lack of clarity around that area might provide comfort to people who spend their lives in a state of uncertainty.”

The last time Gadd, Gunning, and Mau were together in person was the night before Baby Reindeer hit Netflix. “Little did we know,” Gunning says, and they all laugh. It’s clear the trio find great comfort in one another as the spotlight settles on them in a way none of them have ever experienced before. Mau reflects on that premiere event, the pride she felt just in the show that they made together: “We watched it on the big screen, and it was special. That felt like, ‘Okay, we did it.’”

Before Baby Reindeer came out, Gadd tells me he had a little less than 4,000 followers on Instagram. He’d feel excited if a post generated more than 100 likes. He chuckles to himself at this month-old version of himself, naive to just how quickly and intensely things can change. He notes that he’s since turned the comments off on his account. That intrigues Gunning, who, again, is not on social media. “How does it work? You can turn comments off, or you can turn notifications off, and it doesn’t keep pinging?” she asks. Gadd nods: “Instagram is quite good in that way.”

Each of these actors has, in their own way, communicated the need to protect themselves amid so much scrutiny. They are riding high off of the prospect of awards attention, rave reviews, and the even shinier career opportunities awaiting them. This is life-changing stuff, in ways both thrilling and potentially unsettling. “Despite sharing my deepest vulnerabilities with the world, I do actually like to keep up a certain level of privacy,” Gadd says. “I’ve been letting it come in when I feel prepared for it.”

He points out his phone again. “It’s back up to about 150 unread messages now already,” he says—in roughly 24 hours. “So yeah, it’s been crazy.”

 

[sereion]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:26 PM, MicheleinPhilly said:

 

Take it for what it is or don't, but the bottom line is that she's bringing more unwelcome attention to herself with her shenanigans. She could have remained largely anonymous and I don't think Gadd owes her a damn thing. 

I still found the whole series incredibly impactful and appreciated it for what it was. I wish the media would stop giving her the attention she so desperately craves. 

Exactly; especially since Gadd took great pains to conceal her identity to respect her privacy, and to protect his peace. This could've have been avoided had the "internet sleuths" left well enough alone. 

Edited May 16 by sereion

[merylinkid]

21 hours ago, sereion said:

This could've have been avoided had the "internet sleuths" left well enough alone. 

Internet sleuths suck.

So now she is doing a meet and greet at a Scottish Bar.   Plus more interviews.  IF what is portrayed in the show is mostly true, this is a bad, bad idea.   She is going to latch onto someone else.   

If she's being maligned, why doesn't she just say "I didn't do it, leave me alone, my solicitor is handling it."   

[Spartan Girl]

The fact that she’s milking this for its worth is proof enough that she really is as deranged as the show made her out to be. And thanks to the busybodies on internet that couldn’t just mind their damn business, she just got a new way to torture her victim. Of course she probably would’ve reacted this way even if there hadn’t been any internet sleuths; she craves attention and might have just outed herself anyway.

Edited May 17 by Spartan Girl

[conquistador]

I thought this show was really interesting and worth watching. Martha’s actress was outstanding, she made you feel pity and horror and everything in between.

I did struggle a bit with watching the main character and his irrational behavior. It was clear by the end of the story that he was in fact also very mentally unwell, but for several episodes it was like he was irrational to the point that it felt like it was only in order to service the plot moving forwards (including his brand of prop humor).

Edited May 21 by conquistador

[MissAlmond]

Internet sleuths may have first found "Martha" but until Fiona Harvey made the rounds and industry sites picked it up, I didn't know anything about a Baby Reindeer. 

Edited May 21 by MissAlmond

[King of TV]

On 4/23/2024 at 3:42 PM, BetyBee said:

I was crying when Donny's Dad admitted as much as he could about his own abuse. I have to wonder if he somehow conveyed his own self loathing to Donny as he was growing up. It's as if, without meaning to, he perpetuated Donny's low self esteem, making Donny vulnerable when Martha and Darrien showed up in his life. I found this story very compelling and disturbing. 

 

What shocked me was that the show never dived into what happened to Donny's Dad, it was only implied that he was molested. 

 

[iMonrey]

This was uncomfortable to watch and got darker as it went along. The formula is eerily ironic because the first few episodes draw you in to the point where you feel compelled to watch the rest of it just to see where it goes and how it ends, despite the fact that it gets harder and harder to watch with each successive episode, and you find yourself wondering why you're putting yourself through this. It's really disturbing and the whole thing just kind of left me feeling disgusted. 

I can see where people would be fascinated with this but I agree with some of the earlier posts that expressed feeling voyeuristic watching it, like spying on someone going through a mental health crisis or listening in on someone's psychotherapy sessions.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Judge Rules ‘Baby Reindeer’ Was Not a ‘True Story,’ Allows Real Martha to Sue Netflix

Quote

The woman, Fiona Harvey, alleged that the series, created by Richard Gadd, falsely implied that she sexually assaulted Gadd and gouged his eyes, and had been sent to prison for stalking him.