Camille O'Connell: What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?

[Carrie Ann]

Cami, Resident Human in a cast of supernaturals.

[rue721]

Brought over from the episode thread:

 

"Yay more Cami!!!!!" said no one ever.

 

See, I *want* to like Cami, and sometimes I actually do. I liked her with her uncle, I liked her with Marcel, I bought it when she pleaded with Genevieve last season to help her uncle, I thought it was funny when she she lit into Klaus for compelling her to be his typist and told him "you're a thousand years old, I know you can type," etc. She can be such a straight shooter, which imo is a likeable character trait in general, and is in enough contrast to the other characters on this show that imo she can have some really fun interactions with them.

 

But I *hate* (HATE) when she plays therapist. It never works, it always makes her sound like a smug jerk, it never even seems like it would be helpful to anyone she tries to psychoanalyze. AND OK this is really uptight and tertiary, but if she's trying be Klaus's therapist she needs to stay out of his pants. I mean forget the witches or conspiracies or whatever, she'd better hope that Finn/Anthony doesn't hear about that even in the role of her adviser because come ON. Anyway, I also don't want to see ANY of these characters going to therapy, it's ridiculous, their problems are so OTT that the only way therapy could possibly work within the show is if it's played as a joke. If TO doesn't understand how to make therapy even quasi-work in a suped-up milieu like this but is absolutely married to making it happen, imo they should look into how it gets played on SPN, where I think they actually do a fairly good job of making their occasional therapy/mental health SLs weirdly relevant to the characters and story without making it feel like we're dropping out of the world of the show and into a really boring and over-analytical fanfic.

 

To be completely honest, I think a more interesting way to play Cami's psych degree would be if everyone were always *trying* to get her "professional advice," but she felt that it would be unethical for her to psychoanalyze her friends and treat them as patients and refused to do it. Even that wouldn't help with the critical problem that Cami isn't particularly insightful when she psychoanalyzes, though, which just makes it seem extra pointless. And that's in contrast to the other characters frequently being very insightful, since they're all a bunch of schemers and manipulators anyway.

 

I guess that's it -- to have the show's straight shooter do this clumsy psychoanalysis whereas everyone else is capably pulling the other characters' strings to put together all these complex plots makes Cami look like a fool, and also her specific *charm* is that she's straightforward and trustworthy, so to have her trying to pick people apart undermines the best parts of her character imo.

[bluebonnet]

I definitely say "Yay, more Cami".  Maybe not with that much enthusiasm, but I do definitely like her.  There is no specific reason why I like her.  I just do.  

[Lady Calypso]

I honestly think one of the reasons I like her is that even though she's a human, she's no damsel in distress. She doesn't get kidnapped every episode despite having no powers to protect herself, and that's a rarity in most TV shows, especially supernatural shows. She's also highly intelligent and she's not oblivious to things around her. She stands up for herself and doesn't accept everything that she's told. I don't know; the actress may not be a strong one (although I actually do like Leah Pipes), but the character is actually fairly well written. Well, at the very least I give them credit for trying. 

[justmehere]

I like her because she seems grounded amid all the crazy. She also can draw out Klaus and get him to reveal more of himself. She may be a lousy therapist, but she is a strong human who isn't afraid of the big-bad hybrid -- loved when she followed him and demanded that he leave Davina alone. I like that he doesn't completely go to mush with her, but she obviously reaches him on some level, and I like their interaction.

[rue721]

Thinking more about Cami's role on the show, I was wondering about a couple possible plotlines for her. Not sure how interesting/relevant they would actually be, or how likely they are to actually be picked up on the show, though?

 

1. Now that she knows that Davina can (apparently) raise the dead, will she ask Davina to bring her uncle and brother back? (Please! I miss her uncle and would love for them to bring in her twin brother).

 

2. Who is heading the "human contingent" right now? There's all this stuff going on with the witches v. the werewolves v. the vampires, but where are the humans in all of this? Before that mess with Francesca and the Guerreras began last season, I had thought Cami was a shoo-in to take the leadership role over for her uncle?

 

3. This is probably not an issue, because I don't actually think the show is "dark" in this particular way, but I also was wondering last season what Marcel and Klaus each wanted from Cami, aside from the obvious that they like her. I was thinking that maybe Klaus was positioning her to be the leader of the human contingent, because if she had that role, and Hayley were leader of the werewolves, and Elijah leader of the vampires, he'd be sitting really pretty -- he has all those people basically wrapped around his little finger, he'd have pretty much free reign in terms of doing whatever he might want but would also be the "power behind the throne" and not really be in any danger himself (and it would also be a way to make sure that at least the leadership of every super/natural contingent is not going to look kindly on Hope being endangered*). I was also thinking that maybe Marcel was trying to gain Cami's trust/cement an alliance with her, because she has this weird "in" with basically everyone with power, especially Klaus, but also Davina at this point, and she was the Human Contingent Leader's (her uncle's) protege, and so for Marcel to have Cami as an ace up his sleeve/unwitting spy could be useful to him (I was wondering if this was partially why he slept with her). Really, though, I think the show is just trying to go for a love triangle between Marcel/Cami/Klaus, and none of them are supposed to have much in the way of ulterior motives or to be masterminding some big plot really. I mean, this isn't trying to be House of Cards. I sort of wish the characters *were* masterminding big plots, though, and that in all the midst of all these complicated machinations, it was Cami who oddly ended up with all this power, sort of Chauncey Gardiner in "Being There" style. But meh, just a thought.

 

*At this point, I actually wonder if *Hayley* would put together a plan like that, and try to install people who she could trust wouldn't endanger Hope in all the city's positions of power. She seems more active and interested in getting the city/supernatural-relationship cleaned up than anyone else does at the moment. However, she doesn't know Cami from a hole in the wall, and she knows that Cami's a soft touch (and therefore probably is going to be played by someone at some point), so I doubt she'd be trying to install her specifically as Human Leader. I also can't really imagine Hayley masterminding anything anyway, she didn't even bother to plan things like, making sure that Hope had a crib set up before she was born, making some kind of specific plan for how to protect her own life after Hope's birth despite everyone implying really heavily that they were just going to "get rid" of her at that point for a while there, etc. You know, really basic stuff that I would think anyone would have *some* kind of plan for or do *some* kind of prep for. Not even trying to knock Hayley really, I guess she's just SUPER impulsive.

[Genki]

The problem, for me, with Cami is that I don't like actor's choice, I think she is awful.

 

Her delivery is flat and and she seems so expressionless, and her involvement seems forced in the story lines.

[immortalfrieza]

Cam seems like the token "normal human" of the group, just like Matt on TVD. While any sensible human being would have either gotten out of dodge as they possibly could or asked to be turned a long time ago, both Matt and Cam stick around and stay human so the audience has someone to identify with and so the writers have someone that they can realistically put in peril for the other characters to save. I don't think it works with either of these shows, but a lot of shows featuring a cast of supernatural or otherwise extraordinary beings tend to do this.

[lion10]

I really hope there isn't a love triangle in store for Klaus, Cami, and Marcel. It would detract from otherwise great characters (and if I see one more two guys one girl love triangle on TV, I'm gonna scream).

[ketose]

I like Cami. I like the actress. Leah Pipes definitely has opinions, Cami less so.

 

Cami seems to have issues with dating bad boys that has not really been shown in her history so far. Klaus wants to own her, Marcel wants her to be his girlfriend. I think Cami is attracted to both, but she sees Marcel as more redeemable. The psych thing comes in where she knows Klaus is extremely damaged emotionally and thinks he needs some serious therapy. Plus, she's trying to lessen the damage, like making him swear not to kill Davina.

 

Personally, Klaus needs to be fixed with a stake to the heart, much like Damon from TVD.

[rue721]

I really hope there isn't a love triangle in store for Klaus, Cami, and Marcel. It would detract from otherwise great characters (and if I see one more two guys one girl love triangle on TV, I'm gonna scream).

 

I agree, and this is why I was really disheartened when Therapist!Finn (LOL) asked her about the men in her life, that she began to talk about Marcel and his "abs for days" but then immediately brought up Klaus as well. When it comes to Marcel, I think they have fairly good romantic chemistry and I believe that he'd want a rebound relationship and she'd want someone to lean on right now, so I can understand them getting together for at least a while. Also, I usually am not big on romantic SLs in general, but if anyone out of this cast would be interesting and probably fun to see in a relationship, it would be Cami. Tbh, she won a lot of respect from me when she just wouldn't stop trying to save her uncle last season, so I'd like to see how that kind of loyalty would play out if she were with an SO. Imo, Klaus is off the table for a romantic SL, though, because I frankly don't want to see Klaus with *anyone* given how he tormented Rebekah. Given that in the four years Klaus has existed as a character, TVD and TO have *really* limited his romantic SLs, though (the closest thing to a relationship that he's had even in flashbacks or anything was with Genevieve, iIrc?), I'm hopeful that they're not fixing to go down that path with him, and so he won't be part of any real triangle. I sure don't need to see another rehash of the disturbing yet boring Marcel/Rebekah/Klaus triangle of jealousy, neediness, and uncomfortable hints of incest ever again, though, either.

 

Also, regarding Cami/Klaus as a relationship -- I really got the feeling this past episode that they were going for "friends" rather than "romance," in the (imo too many) Klami scenes, and at least putting a pin in Klami. Maybe that's the wrong interpretation? I thought that Cami was setting up that she thought Klaus was hot (in the scene with Finn, and then later at the bar) but then when she basically had to demand that incredibly awkward dance with him in the bar, and then literally chase him down by hitchhiking and sprinting through the bayou after he ditched her in the middle of the dance itself, I figured that was like putting a big flashing light on the pairing saying "this isn't going to work." Maybe the dance where they were sort of going in for the kiss but then not actually doing it and then Klaus sped away to leave her stranded on the dance floor of some random bar was meant to be romantic, though? LOL if so then that's bizarre because imo that kind of  behavior would be irritating and not at all romantic for a twelve-year-old at her spring fling, let alone a grown woman, but who knows.

 

I thought that the explicit mentions of Cami being beautiful and of her finding Marcel and Klaus hot were to make sure that we don't think that Cami is single because she's *undesirable* or that she's just a totally sexless character. It irritates me that the show would feel a need to do that as a way of softening the lack of movement on a romantic SL for her, but you know how there are always a lot of people who feel that if a female character isn't explicitly pursued on screen by the male characters that the show is implying that she's not "good enough" or not as "good" as the female characters who are pursued. Not even saying that's never a valid complaint (though imo if a character's POV isn't getting explored then throwing a love interest at her isn't going to do much to address the problem), just that it's one that tends to come up a lot. It drives me nuts [blah blah patriarchy] but I think the show felt a need to specifically call Cami beautiful on screen, etc, even while making Klami so awkward that it seems like a nonstarter or at least on hold as a romantic coupling, in order to nip the complaint of "is the show trying to say Cami sucks because they're not hooking up?" in the bud. OTOH maybe they were really honestly pushing it as a pairing and I'm just dense or don't understand what ~romance~ means in the world of this show, I dunno.

 

Anyway, I would be interested to see Cami get with Marcel also because I think she'd fit in well over at Team Vampire. I'd like to see her hanging out with Gia, and even Elijah. Cami, Marcel, and Davina would also form a pretty fun little clique, since Cami/Marcel, Davina/Marcel, and Cami/Davina are already close.

 

I also do think that there are some stories to mine with her, because she seems to have a really interesting family -- but since her family is by and large dead, I would think she's going to have to have any kind of storyline involving them be tied very closely to the witches or at least one particular witch (maybe Davina, but I feel like Finn and Esther are also pulling her into their circle)?

 

The psych thing comes in where she knows Klaus is extremely damaged emotionally and thinks he needs some serious therapy. Plus, she's trying to lessen the damage, like making him swear not to kill Davina.

 

In general, it bothers me that Cami plays therapist to her friends, because I find it unethical and also pretty creepy. I find it even more off-putting that she'd go that route with someone who she's considering hooking up with, too. Though maybe that's idiosyncratic? It also especially irritates me with Klaus because their little therapy sessions are SO. BORING. and banal, and it's like -- Cami, is this random bullshit really what you're trying to talk about with an indestructible mass murderer? The banality of what they talk about seems like it's sort of played as a joke (because it's so OTT irrelevant), but not enough to actually be a joke, so I frankly just find it confusing. Also, Klaus's ~issues~ aren't that complex, even he seems to understand them just fine, I don't really think there need to be scenes in which she's explaining them using fake psychobabble. Also, he's usually completely toasted whenever they're interacting, so while I think her very blunt way of talking to him and willingness to call bullshit when pushed is fun to watch, and makes total sense coming from her since I would think that as a bartender she'd be good at managing drunk people generally, when she starts talking in jargon-heavy abstractions it comes off as even more pointless and silly than it usually would to me.

 

Anyway, what honestly set me off about this issue (i.e., Cami playing therapist for her friends) was when she was talking to Klaus in the bar and started advising him to focus on simple pleasures ("a cold beer," etc). I found that to be such ludicrously inadequate advice that I think I actually snorted in derision when she said it. Was it *supposed* to come off as ludicrously inadequate or not? I honestly can't tell. It pissed me off because it's like, are you freaking kidding me Cami? When your uncle was delusional and dying in front of your eyes from the hex, was your pain going to be soothed by "a cold beer"? When you were scrubbing "murderer" off of your brother's gravestone, would you have been OK if you'd just focused more on simple pleasures? Judging by even just the things that have happened to her over the course of the show so far, I would have thought that Cami would understand that sometimes things hurt wayyyyyyy past the point where small pleasures like "a cold beer" are going to matter in the slightest or even *be* genuinely pleasurable rather than being even a bit of salt in the wound, so her offering that advice imo was demoralizing at best (because it makes it seem so hopeless that there's ever going to be any real relief from pain), insulting at worst (because her version of pain relief/pleasure is so laughably inadequate). I don't even know how we're supposed to think that Klaus in particular took it or what his call-back to it at the end of the episode meant (w/r/t immobilizing Mikael with the knife rather than killing him*), let alone how we the audience were supposed to take it -- but it got under my skin personally.

 

*I would think that his interpretation was, if the only relief from pain on this earth really is petty, meaningless stuff like the "pleasures" that Cami was listing, then better to keep Mikael alive so that he can sit there suffering the basically unrelenting torment of being here on earth instead of getting the relative peace/painlessness of death. I don't think that's actually what Klaus was referring to, especially since Mikael referred to being "in hell" right before their fight, but that's what I would have been thinking in his place, in terms of deciding to keep Mikael alive and in pain rather than killing him straight away. Like, oh, Cami, took your advice about looking for relief from torment through indulgence in small pleasures, so Mikael is now suffering unimaginable torture with Papa Tunde's knife buried in his stomach, but since I also put him on a bed with silk sheets and a recently turned mattress, he's probably doing fine.

[GraceAnne]

Are we to really believe Cami is so desirable that after a few extremely boring conversation Finn is going to throw in the towel on his mother's plan and switch sides?  Or is it her 15 psych credits are going to outsmart the 1000 year old vampire and he'll just spill the beans about mama bear's plan??

Neither scenario seems very believable when you've watched Finn's scenes with Sage and Esther on the Vampire Diaries.

 

This is a repetitive problem for me with the character of Cami..... I'm constantly rolling my eyes during her scenes and thinking, " Really? That seems highly unlikely and/or annoying."

[bluebonnet]

To be fair, Finn isn't technically anywhere near 1000 years old.  He spent something like 900 years in a box.  

[GraceAnne]

To be fair, Finn isn't technically anywhere near 1000 years old.  He spent something like 900 years in a box.

A valid point.

Although I'm pretty sure even my 3 year old could see through this "pretend I like my advisor"plot.... But who knows maybe Finn finds her psychoanalysis babble more charming than I do.

[rue721]

Or is it her 15 psych credits are going to outsmart the 1000 year old vampire and he'll just spill the beans about mama bear's plan??

 

Dude I am NOWHERE near 1000 years old and even I find Cami's assumptions/plan to be transparently dumb. She spent like half a drink/ten minutes worming her way into Finn's affections by asking him awkwardly prying questions -- who would be like WHELP GUESS I LOVE HER AND WILL BETRAY MY OWN MOTHER TO HER NOW!!1! based on that? Come on, *nobody* is so slick that they can win a man's heart (or whatever) based on one inept and half-assed chat up. Cami's gorgeous but nobody is that gorgeous.

 

I will say that the Mikaelsons are batshit and starved for affection enough, as a group, that if that "plan" is going to work on anyone, I'd guess it *would* be on one of those jokers. Also, to be fair to Cami, I guess Marcel figured that she'd make a good honey trap for Finn, too, it's not just her being an idiot all on her lonesome. Still, no disrespect to Cami, but it makes zero sense that Finn would be, Idk, overwhelmed with love for her to the point of maybe betraying his family, and I don't even know how the idea occurred to her, let alone that she evidently believes it.

 

I also wonder about Marcel, because he's not naive like that, you'd think he'd be like COME ON CAMI NO OFFENSE BUT WUT. Meh, maybe he *is* thinking that and just appeasing her while figuring out his own plan, it can be tough to tell.

[driedfruit]

I'm not buying that Finn is into her for a second. Anyone remember the love of his life, Sage? She was crackling fun, gutsy and hilarious. Seriously doubt he'd go from her to falling for a wet blanket like Cami.

[rue721]

I really have trouble understanding what they're doing with Cami in general.

 

They keep putting Cami and Marcel together in the background, I would even say that's about a third of what Marcel has been doing total this season (they've really sidelined him imo, I hope he's got a bigger role in the second half of the season because I miss him), so I feel like they haven't dropped that story/ship entirely, it's just on ice.

 

But meanwhile, are they thinking that we should take Cami/Klaus seriously as a possible couple? They keep throwing them together like they're going to hook up but it just doesn't gel at all for me (YMMV, but that's a reason I'm slow on the uptake when it comes to that ship). I understand how they could possibly like each other, but last season when unconscious!Cami called out for Marcel and Klaus called Marcel to come over, I really thought that was the nail in the coffin of that never-very-popular-as-far-as-I-know ship (i.e., Klami). I *had* finally started thinking in the last episode or two that maybe they were trying to do Klami in earnest and throwing Gia at Marcel (though I personally would prefer Cami with Marcel and Gia with Elijah, chemistry-wise, but YMMV), but now Cami thinks she also has Finn on a string?

 

Her hubris about Finn, which imo is just embarrassingly naive*, combined with her big declaration at the top of the episode (to Finn) about how Klaus would never hurt *her* (which is also nuts, has she met Klaus? he hurts everybody!), makes me wonder if Klaus is going to do something terrible to her**. Just conjecture.

 

But obviously, her only SL isn't going to be to have someone do something terrible to her. Hmmm. I just don't see where they're going with this. Cami keeps getting so much screentime in all these episodes but I don't really understand what her story is, except that she's getting really convinced that she's charming and not in over her head (when she's clearly in over her head). And not even saying she's not charming, it just seems a little weird/silly that she's envisioning herself as belle of the (vampire) ball right now, when they're all a bunch of monsters and she's a lamb getting led to the slaughter. She's like...what's that sacrificial pig's name, that Elijah and Tatia had their first kiss in front of? Does she not have any common sense?!

 

You know how when the heroine is about to go down the dark staircase to investigate the strange sound in the basement, and everyone wants to yell, "don't go down there!" Watching Cami's storyline, I keep wanting to yell, "WATCH OUT FOR HUBRIS, CAMI!" But tbh I'm not sure where her hubris might take her anyway?

 

*I guess it's sort of her role to be embarrassingly naive, to be fair. The show is supposed to be in the POV of a bunch of 1000+ year old vampires and resurrected witches and other people like that, so of course that would be Cami's role. But it's strange to watch, imo, because I'm not *really* sure how she fits in. Maybe as a foil, but a foil for whom, I have no idea?

 

**In terms of the "something terrible," what I think would be fun is if somehow Klaus actually does become a werewolf, and triggers the curse by killing Cami. Proving himself a complete douchenozzle once again. But! I guess even then Cami could have vampire blood in her system and come back as a vampire, if they want to keep her on the show.

[driedfruit]

You know how when the heroine is about to go down the dark staircase to investigate the strange sound in the basement, and everyone wants to yell, "don't go down there!" Watching Cami's storyline, I keep wanting to yell, "WATCH OUT FOR HUBRIS, CAMI!" But tbh I'm not sure where her hubris might take her anyway?

That's a good point about her being that girl. But I don't think the show is gonna have Klaus do anything terrible to her, not yet at least since they seem to be rather intent on pushing Klami (I think the thing with Marcel is meant to give them both something, give us shirtless CMD, and to establish that Cami is desirable). My guess for her is that she's gonna be Rebekah's new body, temporarily.

[Carrie Ann]

My guess for her is that she's gonna be Rebekah's new body, temporarily.

 

Oh God, I didn't even think about that. But if I had to guess, I'd say she'd be one of the retconned characters--Freya or Dahlia. (Also, seriously, you're going to name the 1,000 year old sister Dahlia? As in the flower named after an 18th century botanist?) (Also, Dahlia, one episode after Talia? Let's try a little harder, writers.)

[pele2102]

You know I think Cami would've been much more palatable if they had gone with her being Elijah's therapist from the beginning. Then when one of the more crazier Mikaelsons would inevitably come to kill, then she could be integrated more into this world as a whole. Like she would still try to maintain her professionalism and help her patient Elijah while all this bat shit craziness goes down. 

[Fcc]

Cami is sooooo boring, everytime she opens sher mouth i just can’t avoid ?????????

And it’s so sooooo wrong the fact that she is always analyzing people and getting sexually involved so easily. I would like do not not have her in the show ever!!! She is the “good” girl extra boring standard.

Would be much more fun klaus ending up with Hayley. Build up something that is not expected writes. That girl is soooooooo annoying!!!