S23.E05: Last Dance

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

Got a little dusty in my living room right at the end there. That happen for anyone else?

You mean after Jack/Sam said to teary-eyed Nolan/Dancy "It's been a hell of a ride"?
I burst into sobs.

[MarylandGirl]

13 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Totally agree. This episode emphasized, for me, that Sam Waterston is a vastly superior actor to the other two.

And I continue to enjoy the detective side of things. It is always a letdown when that part of an episode ends (in this incarnation of the show) and we switch to the trial part.

I had this same thought, that so far this season (and the last one, actually), where when they switch to the trial part, I feel disappointed. I am really liking the new detective.

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

You mean after Jack/Sam said to teary-eyed Nolan/Dancy "It's been a hell of a ride"?
I burst into sobs.

Yep, that moment. And continued when he was outside looking at the courthouse.

[shapeshifter]

On 2/24/2024 at 8:28 AM, shapeshifter said:

You mean after Jack/Sam said to teary-eyed Nolan/Dancy "It's been a hell of a ride"?
I burst into sobs.

On 2/24/2024 at 9:57 AM, MarylandGirl said:

Yep, that moment. And continued when he was outside looking at the courthouse.

And I've never loved an episode title so much ("Last Dance"). 

 

 

                                         ꧁༒❊༒꧂

 

 

On 2/24/2024 at 9:57 AM, MarylandGirl said:

I am really liking the new detective.

When Reid Scott's (new Detective Vincent Riley) image and name flashed across the screen during the classic intro music, I wondered if/when Reid Scott first looked at that intro, whether he smiled and thought something like: "I have arrived." 
He has some noms and awards for other ensemble shows (wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Scott_(actor)#Awards_and_nominations).

 

Edited February 29 by shapeshifter
grammar

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And please. The judge asking what the jury’s decision was: guilty or not guilty? Since when? She’s supposed to read it, hand it back, and the foreperson states what their verdict is.

I've served on civil and criminal juries in NYC, and the judge has never looked at/asked for the verdict before the jury has announced it. That's always driven me crazy about this show. 

[TakomaSnark]

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A man his age is not able to get that much work acting-wise

I guess you missed his seven season run on Grace & Frankie.

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A long-term character like that deserve to have his exit be a focus. I don't mean make it a huge big thing, but do something more for what it's worth. This wasn't just some mediocre short stint character here. 

That's never been the Law & Order way.  Briscoe and Jerry had plenty of showcase episodes; I personally don't need a 'very special episode' for his last. By the time Mike Logan leaves Criminal Intent, he's got nine seasons under his belt in the franchise. His exit is still a throwaway line in the season premiere after his season seven-finale departure.

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We've established the show has had a constant run of poorly written exits. I figured they would fix this in the revival, but they have not learned a thing and continue this ridiculous trend. 

Why would they fix what the showrunners obviously see as a core part of the the show?

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If that was the case then why even have him on for two and a half years? They were best retiring him on SVU before the premiere of the revival where we meet the new DA to replace him. 

Because they needed some anchor to the golden era in the relaunch. Anthony Anderson was definitely not it.

[Sake614]

@TakomaSnark can I marry your last post? It just totally sums up everything I’ve been thinking (and saying) so perfectly! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[Joimiaroxeu]

As soon as you see people walking in Central Park in the dark you know they're either about to come up on a dead body or become a dead body. L&O 101.

What was with the jiggly camera work while Shaw and Riley were interviewing the woman who found the victim's corpse? All three of them were standing still and it didn't appear to be particularly windy outside.

The first guy they arrested described a hat with an orange letter. My immediate thought was a Syracuse student or alumni. But duh, Princeton is closer to NYC. Of course.

They arrested the coffee and donuts vendor and he just had to leave his truck open and unattended?

Better judge this week versus last week's. She wasn't automatically overruling the prosecution's objections.

So when you cheat on your wife, your friends who are aware of it can count on you not to rat them out when they murder someone; bonus points if your father is the mayor. Good to know.

Jack McCoy FT final W. Look upon his works ye mighty and despair.

I'm not crying, you're crying! Yes, Sam Waterston, it has been an amazing ride. Take care.

[Chyromaniac]

For me it felt like a worthy exit for Jack - and I’m glad he got one last witness to grill, and one last big courtroom speech on his way out.  He knew this case was a one way ticket, and he made it count, and spared his team in the process.  This is not meant to denigrate Price or Maroun- tbh, I wonder if some of the problem with their characterizations are because the writers are trying to give them attitudes and temperaments that set them apart from him.

Still, with Jack there’s just something more compelling about his character.  Whether it’s the writing, Waterston’s acting, or something else entirely, there’s just a sense of (forgive me) conviction about Jack McCoy, and how he presents himself in court.  Maybe now that the new kids are out from his shadow, the writers might be able to infuse some of that zeal into their characters.  

[Guest]

On 2/24/2024 at 3:32 PM, TakomaSnark said:

I guess you missed his seven season run on Grace & Frankie.

That's never been the Law & Order way.  Briscoe and Jerry had plenty of showcase episodes; I personally don't need a 'very special episode' for his last. By the time Mike Logan leaves Criminal Intent, he's got nine seasons under his belt in the franchise. His exit is still a throwaway line in the season premiere after his season seven-finale departure.

Why would they fix what the showrunners obviously see as a core part of the the show?

Because they needed some anchor to the golden era in the relaunch. Anthony Anderson was definitely not it.

And that run is over right? So what's he gonna do now since now L&O is off the table? Yeah, okay. Let's see if he has that same sort of luck elsewhere. 

It NEEDS to be the L&O way. I'm sick of shows coming back and offering nothing new to the table. Give these characters more flare and good sendoffs. They have yet to explain Bernard's absence and this was someone they brought back after a decade.

The core part of the show? HA! More like epic laziness to me. Criminal Intent clearly didn't care either with Mike and I fault that show too. I fault any of the shows that do this so a spinoff doing it makes it no better. I fault even my own lovable show, Trial By Jury, for not properly explaining Lennie's absence, and it was played off like he was never even there to begin with. SLOPPY. Makes his sendoff on L&O look reasonable. 

They didn't need Jack. The man's appearance on SVU Season 19 was already a stretch to see him still in office. Him being old isn't the problem, but at least look like you still got it. I was afraid the man was gonna fall over and die at any minute. They could have brought back one of the female ADAs from the original run like Jamie Ross. If they were gonna have her back in the office (and if Carey Lowell was open to sticking on) then I would have liked to have seen her in some other role than what we've already saw out of her before (ADA, defense, judge). 

On 2/25/2024 at 7:08 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

As soon as you see people walking in Central Park in the dark you know they're either about to come up on a dead body or become a dead body. L&O 101.

Better judge this week versus last week's. She wasn't automatically overruling the prosecution's objections.

Never understood the need to make the park that big. They could condense that area and make two neighborhoods out of it. NYC should definitely do that in the future. Not typical buildings, but a rural-themed like a camping/vacation spot since you have those little rivers there. Maybe half of the land can be that and the other half can be the park. I also think they should put a small police station there so emergency assistance can get to areas in the park quicker if need be. Do they even have officers on patrol driving through it on occasion? They should. 

I didn't know what that judge's deal was last week. He and Nolan must have some past conflict that's still lingering. Clearly a defense lover.

Edited February 27 by TrialByJury

[TakomaSnark]

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It NEEDS to be the L&O way. I'm sick of shows coming back and offering nothing new to the table. Give these characters more flare and good sendoffs. They have yet to explain Bernard's absence and this was someone they brought back after a decade.

Honestly, the only advice I can give you is to stop watching. Or write the show you want to watch. If you don't accept what has been consistent with L&O after twenty-three seasons, then I'm simply out of responses and will end this engagement here.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TakomaSnark said:

Honestly, the only advice I can give you is to stop watching. Or write the show you want to watch. If you don't accept what has been consistent with L&O after twenty-three seasons, then I'm simply out of responses and will end this engagement here.

Well it's been a consistent MESS for twenty-three seasons and need to end or else there's no need to continue the show. It's bad enough they can't keep a stable cast together for more than a year or two without changing this and that person and THAT is really doing it for me. I'm not writing a whole damn show are you serious? I'm a writer, but that is too much time and brain power I'm not putting to use. I'm not even in the industry so it will be a waste of time.

And Xeliou66, you like to like many of these comment replies to me and you have yet to respond to anything I've written to you. I'm itching to hear what you have to say directly. 

Edited February 27 by TrialByJury

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, TrialByJury said:

Well it's been a consistent MESS for twenty-three seasons

Maybe start a Hate Watchers thread in this L&O board?

 

[TakomaSnark]

8 hours ago, TrialByJury said:

Why do that when I'll be the only person really posting in it? Not worth my time. An even worse idea than the person telling me to write my own show as if I have the ability to even greenlit the thing. This franchise has issues and they keep doing it. At this point, L&O is just a guilty pleasure. CAN'T EVEN KEEP A STABLE CAST FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS. How the show managed to last twenty-three seasons is beyond me. They were best not even bringing this back and just kept its legacy lived on through the spinoffs. If we get ANY MORE CASTING CHANGES BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF SEASON 24 (if there is one), THERE WILL BE SCRUTINY. 

Thing is, there's plenty of critical pushback among this community for the ways in which L&O OG has ebbed and flowed over the years... But there's also a lot of passion for things this community likes (even if that like is not universal). 

I've read through your comments here multiple times and I'll be honest, I'm not really what you like about the show in general, never mind enough to sustain what seems to be 23 seasons-long disappointment. 

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CAN'T EVEN KEEP A STABLE CAST FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS.

 

 

Jerry, Sam, Epatha, Steven and Jesse were always the outliers. L&O (OG and franchise in general) is known for its revolving door of principal cast members. Being upset about it in season 23 is like being put off at theh show's use of the 'repeat offender' guest stars in different roles.

You say it is a guilty pleasure for you but I struggle to see, especially through the use of all caps, where you are finding any pleasure in the show. 

[shapeshifter]

On 2/25/2024 at 7:08 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

They arrested the coffee and donuts vendor and he just had to leave his truck open and unattended?

I know, right?!?
I guess we’re supposed to fill in the blanks or choose our own adventure?

These now-ubiquitous non sequiturs are probably artifacts of the 39 minutes allotted for the hour-length stories after commercials and intro music with credits. 

Maybe if the proposed Peacock and Paramount+ merger happens, the streaming versions of the episodes will include these missing pieces of narrative. Hopefully it won’t be too late — that the current writers will still know how to script such necessary narrative glue.

[Mellowyellow]

Farewell Jack you legend! You will always be the heart and soul of Law and Order for me.

I burst into tears at that last shot of him in his hat and coat. How many times have we seen him walking off in his coat over the years? This will be the last time.

Thrilled he left on a win whilst also plotting strategically.

I will miss him but at the same time I can enjoy the reruns as I assume he’ll be retiring somewhere nice and occasionally have a chat with Mike, Connie or Abby.

[rejnel]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:53 AM, Guest said:

On 2/24/2024 at 12:32 PM, TakomaSnark said:

I guess you missed his seven season run on Grace & Frankie.

And that run is over right? So what's he gonna do now since now L&O is off the table? Yeah, okay. Let's see if he has that same sort of luck elsewhere.

Sam Waterston's luck has served him well over a nearly 60-year career, ranging from the New York stage to award-winning films to several successful series.

I think he'll be OK.