S01.E06: Beyond Measure

[secnarf]

Quote

It's 1968 and Tim's an anti-war protester sought by the FBI. Hawk and Lucy have a settled life, two children and a country house -- the perfect spot for Tim to hide. Out of touch for years, Hawk wants Tim back in his life and Tim -- on his way to becoming a priest -- can’t resist Hawk's charms. Marcus puts aside his career to care for his aged father while denying himself romance. Frankie becomes a counselor for "girls" left behind by society.

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Fellow Travelers Episode 6 Promo | SHOWTIME

[EtheltoTillie]

Was Linus Roach’s wife hinting that he was also gay?  Or just that she knew he had affairs with women and Lucy shouldn’t care if her own husband had affairs with whoever?  Mom seemed to recognize that Hawk was attracted to men, but Lucy was pretending to be clueless. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

This was a good episode. We found out a lot of background. Including Lucy knew about Skippy a lot earlier.  Hawk did so many terrible things, then always tried to do all his helpful things in a sneaky secret way. What a sad life he lived. Skippy is a great character. I think we learned in the last episode that the son committed suicide?  Here we got the background on how he must have always had depression. 
One stupid point kept tripping me up. How did the kid keep getting back and forth from the cabin?  That was a ridiculous loose end. It’s not like he could hop the subway. Did he hitchhike?  

[Bean421]

Kudos to the casting department. The actor playing Jackson was truly a mini Matt Bomer. 

I don't know if we had confirmation that he committed suicide, just that Hawk and Lucy suffered a great loss. I can't remember if we saw a grown-up daughter in the first episode or what the family configuration was during the celebration. With the focus on Jackson, I'd assume he's marked for tragedy. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

8 hours ago, Bean421 said:

I can't remember if we saw a grown-up daughter in the first episode or what the family configuration was during the celebration.

We met adult Kimberly in E01, during the garden party.

[Snazzy Daisy]

A filler episode but Allison Williams has been given more screen time and materials to work with. She finds out about Hawk’s extracurricular activities quite early in their marriage. Despite everything, she still wants to start a family with him. Low self-esteem?

Lucy’s changing hairstyles to differentiate the timelines don’t really work TBH. They aren’t that noticeable.

Hawk’s charisma and charm don’t work on his kids. Ironic huh.

LUCY:      
“Are you the only one who matters?”

Ahh Lucy, you already know the answer… 🙄

[Bill1978]

4 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Lucy’s changing hairstyles to differentiate the timelines don’t really work TBH. They aren’t that noticeable.

It took me a while to realise we were having flashbacks within the flashback. The Tim one was obvious, but I didn't realise about Lucy's until halfway through the episode - even though I should have made the connection when they were talking about renovating the cabin. For some reason I initially thought the renovation was happening while Tim was there. It was only until make a baby with me that I realised that part of the episode was a flashback.

4 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

A filler episode but Alliso

Definitely a filler episode, but the ending definitely sets up that something major is going to happen with Jackson. I feel by the time the series ends I'm either going to wish we didn't spend so long in the 1950s OR wish we just stayed in the 1950s with brief pitstops in the 1980s.

The story has already set up another convenient time jump. The first was shipping Tim off to war and now sending Tim to prison gives a reason for Hawk and Tim not to be in each other's lives for a long period of time.

14 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Was Linus Roach’s wife hinting that he was also gay?  Or just that she knew he had affairs with women and Lucy shouldn’t care if her own husband had affairs with whoever?

With the reveal at the end of the episode that Lucy knew about Tim for a long time and hence her concerned looks watching Hawk's interactions with Andrew (?) outside the window, I feel like the mother was just talking about her husband having heterosexual affairs - because she didn't see what was happening outside the window and was referring to her husband always working late as well, having no idea about her son in laws extracurricular activity with men.

[secnarf]

My guess is that Jackson is actually gay (and that is why he feels there is something "wrong" with him) and will ultimately end up dying by suicide and that is the tragedy Tim was referring to in the last episode.

Does 1968 Hawk know that Lucy has known about Tim for all this time? My guess is no, because she didn't tell him about the letter?

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, secnarf said:

Does 1968 Hawk know that Lucy has known about Tim for all this time? My guess is no, because she didn't tell him about the letter?

I'm guessing Hawk didn't know Lucy knew, until she confronted him about Tim in the episode.

[marceline]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:01 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

One stupid point kept tripping me up. How did the kid keep getting back and forth from the cabin?  That was a ridiculous loose end. It’s not like he could hop the subway. Did he hitchhike?  

I noticed upon rewatch that Hawk mentions to Tim that the cabin is a quarter-mile from the main house through the woods. That wouldn't be tough for a young, healthy person to walk. Although I think it would be considerably harder when you're tripping balls on acid.

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, marceline said:

I noticed upon rewatch that Hawk mentions to Tim that the cabin is a quarter-mile from the main house through the woods. That wouldn't be tough for a young, healthy person to walk. Although I think it would be considerably harder when you're tripping balls on acid.

Completely missed that!  Like a second home on the same property, like an art or writing studio. 

12 hours ago, secnarf said:

My guess is that Jackson is actually gay (and that is why he feels there is something "wrong" with him) and will ultimately end up dying by suicide and that is the tragedy Tim was referring to in the last episode.

Does 1968 Hawk know that Lucy has known about Tim for all this time? My guess is no, because she didn't tell him about the letter?

I too thought about whether Jackson was gay, but they seemed to make such a big deal of his having girlie pictures, as if to make it super clear he wasn’t gay?  

[ahpny]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:01 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

We found out a lot of background. Including Lucy knew about Skippy a lot earlier.

This was foreshadowed in an earlier episode with the telephone call between 1980’s SFO Tim and Lucy. In that discussion - through sparingly few words to the effect of “how are you holding up? Getting by, you. holding up” - we were told they indeed know each other and to some extent well. I got from that exchange of only a few words that they had a grudgingly accepting appreciation for each other because they strangely share some fundamental similarities: they both love the same man, and that man can never love either of them back as fully as each would like. 
 

This episode seems to begin filing the backstory of how their odd relationship came to be.

Edited December 4, 2023 by ahpny

[christie]

7 hours ago, ahpny said:

This was foreshadowed in an earlier episode with the telephone call between 1980’s SFO Tim and Lucy. In that discussion - through sparingly few words to the effect of “how are you holding up? Getting by, you. holding up” - we were told they indeed know each other and to some extent well. I got from that exchange of only a few words that they had a grudgingly accepting appreciation for each other because they strangely share some fundamental similarities: they both love the same man, and that man can never love either of them back as fully as each would like. 
 

This episode seems to begin filing the backstory of how their odd relationship came to be.

Yes, this is true; there was also a scene in a previous episode where Hawk tells Lucy that his family is the most important thing in the world to which Lucy replies that if that were true he wouldn't be going where he's going so it was obvious that she knew about Tim; the telephone call confirmed that and that she'd known for a while; what wasn't obvious is that she knew from practically the beginning of her marriage.

[Crashcourse]

So, has Lucy been having an affair with that married guy since she found out about Tim and Hawk?

[Amethyst]

I can see why this episode was divisive because of the major time jump.  

The real purpose of Tim’s letter was to show that Lucy knew about him and Hawk; the letter didn’t say anything that we (and Hawk) don’t already know.  I’ve seen people online call Lucy a monster for burning it, but I can’t blame how she feels, especially now.  She’s allowed to feel some type of way about her husband’s lover staying on their cabin and he’s on the run from the police?  

The acting remains top notch.  I don’t hate Hawk but he was wrong to bring Tim to the cabin.  At least Tim realized that it wouldn’t work.  Him quietly shaking his head at Hawk’s suggestions was so sad.  Tim can pray all he wants, but he can’t escape Hawk.

The scenes with Tim and Jackson were my favorite.  It was nice to see Tim in a guidance position instead of the other way around.  Jackson looks like Lucy, but he’s definitely Hawk’s son.
 

Frankie and Marcus needed more time.  Have they just been broken up all this time?  It’s been 12 years at least.  I’m guessing Marcus has just been writing for Jet and Frankie has been performing.

[Bill1978]

4 hours ago, Amethyst said:

 I’ve seen people online call Lucy a monster for burning it, but I can’t blame how she feels, especially now.

A similar moment happened in the mini-series The Man in an Orange Shirt. And yes at the moment in both stories I was annoyed at the action, but also understood exactly why the action took place. My annoyance is more from a nostalgic point of view, that the men the letters were addressed to didn't get to decide the outcome of the letters, and thus a memory gets destroyed (that could have been the final memory of the writer)

[ofmd]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:04 AM, secnarf said:

My guess is that Jackson is actually gay (and that is why he feels there is something "wrong" with him) and will ultimately end up dying by suicide and that is the tragedy Tim was referring to in the last episode.

I think so, too. The ultimate tragedy: Being so deep in the closet that you can't even save your own gay son...

As for the letter, while it was wrong to burn it, Lucy is another victim of the times and the anti-gay oppression.

I like that, unlike in a lesser show, the letter wasn't really pivotal to the story. The info that Skippy still loved him? Yeah, I'm sure Hawk knew. We all knew.

Frankie and Martin confused me. I took their last scene in the previous ep to mean that Martin would be the one waiting in Frankie's apartment after the tour, but apparently not...

Edited December 9, 2023 by ofmd

[SoMuchTV]

On 12/3/2023 at 9:56 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Completely missed that!  Like a second home on the same property, like an art or writing studio. 

I too thought about whether Jackson was gay, but they seemed to make such a big deal of his having girlie pictures, as if to make it super clear he wasn’t gay?  

Didn’t we see the fireworks from the cabin (indicating it was fairly close to the main house)? Or did I miss a transition between scenes?

Regarding Jackson and the magazines, my first thought was that he had them to convince himself that there was not “something wrong with him”.

[EtheltoTillie]

12 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Didn’t we see the fireworks from the cabin (indicating it was fairly close to the main house)? Or did I miss a transition between scenes?

Regarding Jackson and the magazines, my first thought was that he had them to convince himself that there was not “something wrong with him”.

I thought of that alternative also.  The show didn't make it clear at all.  The only thing clear now that I have watched the remaining episodes is that all the men in the show are gay and all the women aren't.  So maybe Jackson was gay. 

[Scarlett45]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:12 PM, ofmd said:

Frankie and Martin confused me. I took their last scene in the previous ep to mean that Martin would be the one waiting in Frankie's apartment after the tour, but apparently not...

From what I gathered, they were together, and lived together (hence the framed poem as a bday gift) but Marcus left and moved back home to take care of his sick father, Frankie finished up touring and was moving on to a new career/city and not waiting for Marcus any more. 
 

What I like about the writing of Frankie and Marcus (as much as it breaks my heart) is although Marcus doesn’t choose a heteronormative life like Hawk did, he’s still not socially or emotionally free to be who he is. He’s always compromising and playing “respectability politics”, which as a black person I understand (he feels he has other needs to prioritize) , just like I understand how that’s not enough for Frankie. It just makes me sad. 

Edited March 11 by Scarlett45