S08.E10: Keeping Her Alive

[Mr. Sparkle]

Madison makes a discovery that could lead her to the answers she seeks.

Airs Sunday, November 12 on AMC and AMC+.

[Mr. Sparkle]

OMG, that was just terrible. Bad dialogue, bad acting. Only one double-episode left, but it'll be a struggle to get through that. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I just read a review that absolutely skewered the episode. It was way more entertaining. 

[Starchild]

What a mess. I had such high hopes when Madison's return was announced. But these final episodes have been such a disappointment. The writers have done the actors and the audience such a disservice. 

The only thing that could even partially redeem them is if the rumours of Alicia's death have been greatly exaggerated and we see a reunion between her and her mom. But I'm not holding my breath.

I hope Madison can join Daryl and Carol, but I expect she won't survive the end of this show. 

What a shame.

45 minutes ago, Superclam said:

I just read a review that absolutely skewered the episode. It was way more entertaining. 

Link please?

[Mr. Sparkle]

5 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Link please?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2023/11/12/fear-the-walking-dead-season-8-episode-10-review-there-is-something-fundamentally-wrong-with-this-show/?sh=6f9f39af622b

There are, of course, spoilers throughout. 

[maystone]

On 11/9/2023 at 2:30 AM, BasilSeal said:

This is just indicative of the poor writing which just flails about; trying different ideas and not paying too much heed to continuity or previous story lines. Here many of the supporting characters have been hand waived away, even ones who were previously quite important like Sarah and Wendel, (or skidmark).

 

On 11/9/2023 at 2:30 AM, BasilSeal said:

Daniel appears to have recovered spontaneously from dementia,

It all has been addressed in almost throw-away one liners. I believe when Anton Strand showed up, he told Madison that people on the rafts were gunned down once they hit shore. Daniel said that his dementia had been caused by his guilt over not being able to ask forgiveness of Ofelia, but when he realized that she wasn't gone but living in his heart, his memory cleared. Except he lost Skidmark during a bad memory moment. All badly paraphrased by me and more than one line, but none of it was given a lot of weight in the scene.

Count me in as another viewer who really enjoyed the early seasons of the show, and even during later seasons there were episodes or characters that still made it worth my time to watch. And yes, there are some first-rate actors who've signed up for this; I feel awful for them that the writers have let them down. I'm sad and frustrated that the characters I've followed for so many years are being given such shoddy fare to send them off. Both they and we deserve better.

Does anyone have any idea where this episode was supposed to be taking place? Daniel thinks the herd is from Texas - although a cowboy hat and a turquoise belt buckle could just as easily be from AZ or NM, just sayin' - and Troy walked them here? Because local walkers just wouldn't do?

I'm so relieved that Alicia didn't turn out to be Tracy's mother. So Troy cut off her mom's arm to make Madison believe that it was actually Alicia? And Tracy was ok with that and with Mom being herded around and then frozen in place in mud? She is one very understanding child.

Honestly, I hate that they're making a saint out of Alicia. Almost literally. She's got a freaking hagiography and a band of roving, well-armed acolytes! I don't know; maybe it makes sense that this sort of thing would start up in the apocalypse. France has Laurent; we get Alicia. As much as I hope that she doesn't get a cameo, I admit that I do hope that Madison gets some sort of peace by the end of the series.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, Superclam said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2023/11/12/fear-the-walking-dead-season-8-episode-10-review-there-is-something-fundamentally-wrong-with-this-show/?sh=6f9f39af622b

There are, of course, spoilers throughout. 

OK yeah, that was hilarious.

And relatable. I saw myself.

Except for the part about watching the aftershow segment. I don't do that.

[Brown44]

I was thinking the same thing the forbes reviewer was saying, " this kid can read a map?" I'm 43 and can't read a map. 

There was a time when Fear was better than the OG show but that was a looooong time ago.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Brown44

[Starchild]

11 minutes ago, maystone said:

I'm so relieved that Alicia didn't turn out to be Tracy's mother.

Ever since this theory floated I kept saying "how would that even happen? When was Alicia ever away from everyone else long enough to have a baby with Troy and no one mentions it?"

I keep forgetting that between now and the last time we saw Alicia it's been 7-8 years. Because that time jump was just a stupid way to stick Mo in as a series lead for a while, and I've tried to wipe that from my memory.

Not that it should have ever been a reasonable theory, but this kid, Tracy is it?, would only be 6-7 years old. An obvious age difference  between character and actor that's even more egregious than with Mo. So thank goodness they at least didn't try to go there. 

[Iguessnot]

That was horrendous. I don't understand how the writing can get this bad. 

I didn't realize they were all at Padre. Did the whole population of the Hotel go to Padre? Did Troy and gang miss that migration? I sure did.

I have no clue how June knows about Victor kidnapping Tracy. I don't know how Troy would know. June is worried about an attack from Troy, but they keep saying the location of Padre is still a mystery.

Anyone else see the blooper when Victor is talking to June, but in the background, his husband is smirking with someone off screen,

The shots of Victor's hand on the dude's chest are annoying. Plus the dude is a grown man yet the writers have Victor interacting with him like he's a teen bride who just needs to keep the home fires burning while he's off fighting battles.

Where did this sudden frost come from? I don't know what the time frame is, but the walkers just stay in place during the change of seasons?

The writing is bad and I can't comprehend all this angst dialogue with June, Strand and Madison. 

[nodorothyparker]

The Forbes reviews have been about the only entertaining thing about this final half season.

Beyond that, who the hell knows? Geography still doesn't matter, we're obviously going to drag the mystery of what happened to Christ-lite Alicia now with her own cult following after the rafts drifted away until the bitter end, the acting is high school theater production terrible for even the most basic line readings, and we've dropped any pretense that any of these characters' motivations are at all consistent or make any sense. We have to kill the kid. We have to save the kid. We have to give her back. We have to keep her forever. Meanwhile I can only assume that whoever is writing this child's lines has never actually spoken to a child in real life or even heard how one sounds because it sounds like they're writing for a 40-year-old woman.

All of the strum und drang (see Strand, I know a little German too) over the NotAlicia! walker still doesn't explain why Crazy Eye Troy is honked off at Madison over supposedly getting the demon spawn's mother killed. Something something no one's gone until they're gone, I guess in a callback to when they they thought they could save the world painting cryptic messages on trees or whatever. But really, show, arguing over who did what to who first a full five seasons and a reboot full of a whole other cast of terribles ago doesn't really land much as no one can possibly be expected to remember any of that.

Never thought I'd be to a point of missing Strand doing his Idi Amin cosplay in his little great dictator hat, but they've almost got me there.

 

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

All of the strum und drang (see Strand, I know a little German too) over the NotAlicia! walker still doesn't explain why Crazy Eye Troy is honked off at Madison over supposedly getting the demon spawn's mother killed.

Yeah I don't get this either.  Troy has a lot of legitimate reasons for being mad at Madison,  why did they fabricate this BS?

[nodorothyparker]

A reasonable person might have thought the whole hammer to the head and being left for dead in an exploding dam would be reason enough for most people. I mean, Daniel managed to be rather pissy with Strand for shooting him in the face and leaving him for dead for quite some time. But for this crew, apparently not.

[Boofish]

How did they get Althea's tank back. Since at this point, it's the most interesting character on the show. The last I remember seeing it, Ginny had in Lawton and Victor didn't drive it to the tower. Josie and the Pussycats said they met Alicia at the tower, so was it there? I'm confused.

I'm still confused from last season at exactly what happened to Morgan's community and Lawton unless I missed something in between. The dream episode with Grace showed a car explosion outside the walls, then the next episode, Morgan was looking around at a destroyed community. I assume everyone had scattered which is how Rachel ended up on the road alone with Mo. Because why didn't they all stick together? So the car explosion destroyed everything? And before the big bang Victor was everywhere except Lawton. What happened to that thriving community? What happened to that bounty hunter's twin brother? Remember after the explosion, Sara, Luci, et. al. was in that nice home? Why did they leave? Where was this place located that it survived the blast? 

They wasted an entire story last week that meant absolutely nothing to the story. Why do they think we are that interested in Dwight and Sherry. I will never forgive them for what they did Daryl when he tried to help save Sherry's sister.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Boofish

[Mr. Sparkle]

21 minutes ago, Boofish said:

Josie and the Pussycats

[BasilSeal]

18 hours ago, maystone said:

Does anyone have any idea where this episode was supposed to be taking place? Daniel thinks the herd is from Texas - although a cowboy hat and a turquoise belt buckle could just as easily be from AZ or NM, just sayin' - and Troy walked them here? Because local walkers just wouldn't do?

If you remember, and let's face it, why would you? Troy killed everyone at the prepper scout camp back in the day by leading a herd to the Ranch. I assume he is using the walkers as a weapon, he's led them to place where, apparently there's an entirely different climate so they'll get caught up in the frozen ground and stay there until he needs them. (presumably to attack PADRE in the near future.)

 

18 hours ago, maystone said:

I'm so relieved that Alicia didn't turn out to be Tracy's mother.

OK, my bad there. looks like my powers of prediction didn't work this time which is embarrassing because this show is nothing if not predictable. In my defence it's clear that the theme here is building a better future for one's children, and there needs to be some sort of continuation for Maddison, which is kind of difficult when both her kids are dead so a lost grandchild seemed like the obvious get out clause. looks like they're going with the Bootleg Alicias tribute band instead though.

 

18 hours ago, Starchild said:

I keep forgetting that between now and the last time we saw Alicia it's been 7-8 years. Because that time jump was just a stupid way to stick Mo in as a series lead for a while, and I've tried to wipe that from my memory.

I think the time jump was as much to bring this show's timeline in parity with the main show's so that they can use any characters they need for the spin offs, though i suspect everyone with the possible exception of morgan will be seeking new employment after the season finale, i can't think that the show runners of any of the  spin offs will want to call back to this shit show.

 

18 hours ago, Starchild said:

Not that it should have ever been a reasonable theory, but this kid, Tracy is it?, would only be 6-7 years old.

Well i should have been unreasonable, but by the standards of this show...... Mo was 8 going on 15, but this is the apocalypse, so maybe she just had a really hard paper round you know.

 

6 hours ago, Boofish said:

How did they get Althea's tank back. Since at this point, it's the most interesting character on the show. The last I remember seeing it, Ginny had in Lawton and Victor didn't drive it to the tower. Josie and the Pussycats said they met Alicia at the tower, so was it there? I'm confused.

you're not expecting continuity are you? we've managed ok with just hand waiving this stuff up till now. If you start demanding to know how they got the MRAP back, next thing you know they'l be having to explain where they get the ammo for it or how they've still got functioning car batteries to start it with after 10 years or where they get spare parts and filters to keep it running or what they do if they get a puncture.

Or come to think of it, just how the fuck did they manage not to shoot Troy at the gas station? I mean there were at least 50 armed guys with guns trained on him, many of them in cover with all his guys out in the open, and if the shooting started, you'd make sure you shot him first wouldn't you?

You see, it's much better not to ask these things, the writers obviously don't, and they're clearly much happier for it

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

Or come to think of it, just how the fuck did they manage not to shoot Troy at the gas station? I mean there were at least 50 armed guys with guns trained on him, many of them in cover with all his guys out in the open, and if the shooting started, you'd make sure you shot him first wouldn't you?

They covered that by saying "they didn't care if they lived or died!" which means they would live for some reason. 

1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

OK, my bad there. looks like my powers of prediction didn't work this time which is embarrassing because this show is nothing if not predictable. In my defence it's clear that the theme here is building a better future for one's children, and there needs to be some sort of continuation for Maddison, which is kind of difficult when both her kids are dead so a lost grandchild seemed like the obvious get out clause. looks like they're going with the Bootleg Alicias tribute band instead though.

Don't feel bad, none of us had Alicia's Angels on our scorecards. With Troy's daughter, that's 4 new characters added with a week left to the show. 

1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

he's led them to place where, apparently there's an entirely different climate so they'll get caught up in the frozen ground and stay there until he needs them.

Yes, it's cold enough year round in Georgia (or Texas) even though no one else seems cold. We know it's cold because there is some white powder on the ground only in this small section of river bed. Which is cold enough to freeze walkers in the mud, even though it doesn't appear that cold maybe 3 miles away. In Georgia. <cough>

[heisenberg]

I am so lost in those universe.  I started to stop caring in the Daryl last few episodes or so.   With all those places and new red shirts I though that the story would move forward but... No.  The laundry is spinning in the dryer but nothing gets done like it as been for the last few years. 

We have to add Rick, Michonne, Carol and more to this madness?🤷‍♂️

How about: 

The Walking Dead: Vegas
The Walking Dead: Albuquerque
The Walking Dead: Disney
The Walking Dead: South Park
The Walking Dead: Marineland
The Walking Dead: Sesame Street

How many spinoff are we up to so far?  I have lost count..

 

 

[Boofish]

2 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

If you remember, and let's face it, why would you? Troy killed everyone at the prepper scout camp back in the day by leading a herd to the Ranch. I assume he is using the walkers as a weapon, he's led them to place where, apparently there's an entirely different climate so they'll get caught up in the frozen ground and stay there until he needs them. (presumably to attack PADRE in the near future.)

 

OK, my bad there. looks like my powers of prediction didn't work this time which is embarrassing because this show is nothing if not predictable. In my defence it's clear that the theme here is building a better future for one's children, and there needs to be some sort of continuation for Maddison, which is kind of difficult when both her kids are dead so a lost grandchild seemed like the obvious get out clause. looks like they're going with the Bootleg Alicias tribute band instead though.

 

I think the time jump was as much to bring this show's timeline in parity with the main show's so that they can use any characters they need for the spin offs, though i suspect everyone with the possible exception of morgan will be seeking new employment after the season finale, i can't think that the show runners of any of the  spin offs will want to call back to this shit show.

 

Well i should have been unreasonable, but by the standards of this show...... Mo was 8 going on 15, but this is the apocalypse, so maybe she just had a really hard paper round you know.

 

you're not expecting continuity are you? we've managed ok with just hand waiving this stuff up till now. If you start demanding to know how they got the MRAP back, next thing you know they'l be having to explain where they get the ammo for it or how they've still got functioning car batteries to start it with after 10 years or where they get spare parts and filters to keep it running or what they do if they get a puncture.

Or come to think of it, just how the fuck did they manage not to shoot Troy at the gas station? I mean there were at least 50 armed guys with guns trained on him, many of them in cover with all his guys out in the open, and if the shooting started, you'd make sure you shot him first wouldn't you?

You see, it's much better not to ask these things, the writers obviously don't, and they're clearly much happier for it

This entire post was more entertaining than the last 2 episodes

 

[iMonrey]

I'm late to this party, but ye gads, what a colossal mess this has been, and it just keeps getting worse! How is that possible? Much thanks to @Superclam for that link to the Forbes review, it covered just about everything I was thinking.

It's such an odd choice to bring back Troy after all this time without explaining any of his backstory since we left him for dead. I mean, along with resurrecting Madison they had a decent chance of bringing this whole series full circle to a decent conclusion with the last of the original characters from the pre-reboot seasons and they are totally blowing it. There's no consistency or continuity whatsoever, I don't even get what they're trying to do here. 

The show gave Alicia an entire send-off episode but now it's like she rose from the grave and did a 30-city tour. If they aren't getting Alycia Debnam-Carey back for the finale I don't know what the point of this revisionist history is. Hey, maybe Nick is still alive too! And Travis! And Ofelia! Clearly there are no rules.

Honestly, Rick Grimes didn't get this kind of deification after his death.

On 11/12/2023 at 11:06 PM, Starchild said:

Except for the part about watching the aftershow segment. I don't do that.

Oh, good for you. Because this one was especially infuriating. Hearing the show runner say "removing the kid's blindfold to save her just proves how much Victor has changed." In what universe? If anything it proved the opposite, he did it to save his own hide, and sabotaged the boat on his way out. They honestly don't even understand what they're writing.

Edited November 14, 2023 by iMonrey

[heisenberg]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

They honestly don't even understand what they're writing.

I am pretty sure that Chat GPT would have done a better job.

[Boofish]

What I used to like about this show is how the heroes somehow always prevailed and there were not any shocking deaths after shocking deaths like the original. I did wear black for 3 days after the demise of John Dorie but since then everyone seems to be doing well. I honestly felt nothing for Charlie (did HATE the way she died) because

A. I hadn't seen her since they all sailed off looking for Gilligan's Island

B. Thought she was long dead from radiation poisoning.

I felt like they just used her as a throw away character for "shocking death of the season" and it felt flat because no one was was really looking for Charlie.

Madison you are no Carol. Stop trying to kill kids.

They could have used last week for a Troy back story instead of the sanctuary story. How was Dwight's room still in tact when last we saw the place it was all but gone. They could barely shelter there during the storm from season 10 of the OG. And now Dwight is in the future? Has to be the future because once Morgan came aboard the timelines were the same. 

I watched this long so I will watch the conclusion but they are pissing me off.