S08.E18: Freaks and Geeks

[Demented Daisy]

A hunter has been training Krissy and other kids to be hunters.

 

 

Another episode that I hate.  Victor is creating child soldiers in the guise of hunters and it makes me sick.  The only decent part of the episode is when Dean shows Aiden (and don't get me started on his "game" at the beginning of the episode) what a real hunter is.

 

TPTB screwed up this season so badly.

[DittyDotDot]

Not good. Not good at all. And this from someone who liked Krissy the first time out. I'd say this is another episode that feels like it was made for the youngins. I do remember being amused by Sam's flowing locks of hair as he skulked around that park...but not in a good way, at all. Nope not something I care to see again either.

[rue721]

This is such a strange episode. I actually like the actress who plays Krissy and imo she's a fun character, or at least has the potential to be, so it wasn't a total waste. This was also at least somewhat less schlocky than the previous few episodes, thankfully. The plot was so ridiculous, though. Just no connection to reality at all. The ending is that these kids will just squat for the foreseeable in this big house that now has a plume of Victor's arterial blood sprayed onto its living room walls? OK. And Krissy is about Kevin's age -- but whereas he's isolated on a boat giving himself nosebleeds from working so hard and Dean is still getting irritated because he's not doing enough, Krissy gets treated with kid gloves?

 

Not even going to bother with the thing of this guy killing the families of kids with "potential" to be good hunters, including one whose father IS a hunter already (?), and then working with a vampire to set up fake, easy missions for them. It makes no sense imo, for the obvious reasons.

 

The show also keeps pushing the idea that Sam wants to hang it all up, like with him muttering to himself about maybe once the gates of Hell are closed up they'll all be able to have normal lives. I'm sorry, I can't buy it at all. Though maybe he *should* hang it up, considering he's been Sam-napped for like three episodes in a row at this point. His newfound desire for "a normal life" is just to create some kind of pseudo-conflict between the brothers, I guess. Not that Sam and Dean *both* saying they want Sam to stop hunting, yet Sam also insisting on doing the Trials himself, makes sense/is consistent or is actually an interpersonal conflict anyway. The characterization this whole season is so disjointed/incoherent and not at all grounded in reality. Why? At first I was thinking it was a quasi-reboot, but whatever else the writers are attempting, they can't be making the characters so inconsistent on purpose, I don't think?

Edited December 17, 2014 by rue721

[DittyDotDot]

Not even going to bother with the thing of this guy killing the families of kids with "potential" to be good hunters, including one whose father IS a hunter already (?), and then working with a vampire to set up fake, easy missions for them. It makes no sense imo, for the obvious reasons.

 

You know what I remember most about this episode. I just couldn't wrap my head around how what's-his-name ended up with these kids in the first place. So their families are gone and social services just turned them over to this creepy guy? Was he a legit foster parent? Or did he just hang around outside their school and approach them with, "hey, I know you parents just got slaughtered and I can help you get some vengeance. All you have to do is come be my surrogate family." I remember thinking they needed to start showing those Stranger Danger films in school again.

 

Yeah, not a lot of sense came out of this episode.

[DittyDotDot]

This one doesn't work any better for me on re-watch. I do think the opening sequences of this episode--with Krissy and the other kid in the car--was really well shot and executed. If you remove a couple of logic fails, it's not a terrible episode exactly, I guess, but I just don't understand why it actually exists either. It's weird.

 

You know what else it kinda weird? Why is Sam awkwardly exiting at the end of episodes so Dean can have his final chat with the guest stars? I don't really care that he exists or that Dean gets to have the moments, but it's just so awkwardly written.

 

Never fails to make me laugh when either Sam or Dean get tied to little tiny chairs. You'd think the show would come up with bigger chairs or a better idea for this, but at least I get a chuckle out of it anyway.

 

I kinda hope Krissy and Co. have figured out how to have a normal life away from hunting, means we should never see them again, right?

[Goldmoon]

Wow, this was bad.  As you said, social services wouldn't let them squat in the house.  I kept thinking that the first vamp wasn't a vamp at all but some innocent human that they beheaded.  I kept waiting for Sam and/or Dean to check his mouth for the fangs.  Someone up thread mentioned a potential reboot in S8.  I don't get that.  The show wasn't great in S7, though it was better than the hot mess of S6.  Still, it seems the powers through out everything that made this show good this season.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I liked seeing Krissy again.  She is cute with Dean and vice versa.  Really sad her dad died - but I have a hard time believing that hunter would work with a vampire to off all their parents and families to assemble this teenage hunter dream team.  He had to be seriously off his rocker.  Too bad, because it was a nice set up.  

So was this supposed to be a lesson for Sam who's been wanting a normal life - like Meg said last ep, deep down in places he never lets see the light of day?  He thought there could be a compromise, but there really can't?  Cause I still call BullShit on that.  

When Victor first asked Sam if he wanted kids, I expected him to ask if had some he was giving away.  That's how my mind works.  :)

Dean doesn't trust guys who wear sweaters.  And we saw Sam in a sweater in the ep with Angry Lady's dad.  Hm...

Wasn't Krissy already a hunter?  Why did she need training?  The others who didn't grow up with parents who were hunters, I understand.  But Krissy seeming so...un-knowledgeable (I don't want to say stupid, because it wasn't quite stupid.  but she didn't act like she knew as much as I thought she should know either.) was odd.

Not much else on this ep.  I really liked Josephine.  At least the kids have each other.  I'm not going to think about the logistics much.  Maybe they kept Victor's death a secret until the other girl turned 18.  Or longer.  

And I'm glad they saved the last vampire/victim.  So there's that at least.  

[DittyDotDot]

On 7/3/2016 at 10:23 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Wasn't Krissy already a hunter?  Why did she need training?  The others who didn't grow up with parents who were hunters, I understand.  But Krissy seeming so...un-knowledgeable (I don't want to say stupid, because it wasn't quite stupid.  but she didn't act like she knew as much as I thought she should know either.) was odd.

I don't think she had actually ever hunted before. She told Dean she helped her dad all the time, but I assumed that was bluster. I think she knew of the hunting world, but didn't really know what being a hunter was all about. In some ways she's a lot like how Jo was when we first met her. She'd never been on a hunt, but had her head filled with stories since she was a kid, so she thought she knew what it all was about. Basically, she knew just enough to be dangerous and then Victor comes along and exploits that.

Edited July 5, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

Okay, I finally figured out what it is about this episode that just rubs me the wrong way. I mean, sure, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but little does on this show. But what really irritates me is this idea that if they shut the gates of Hell everyone will be living good all the sudden. Neither Dean or Sam seem to realize that even if they do shut the gates of Hell, there's still monsters and pagan gods and angels and angry spirits and... . Plus, they still don't even know what shutting the gates of Hell will actually mean. Ugh.

Anyhoo, that vampire girl Dean finds at that lodge had me in mind of the vampire woman first found in Fresh Blood for some reason.

[Katy M]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 7:59 AM, DittyDotDot said:

She told Dean she helped her dad all the time, but I assumed that was bluster.

I think maybe she helped with some research.  Maybe went on a fairly safe salt and burn, or two.  But, no actual real hunting.  As it should be.  I'm sure he was training her to shoot and fight and whatnot.  She apparently knew how to pick a lock.  Also, he appears to have kept her away from other hunters, only giving her Bobby's number in case of an emergency.

As far as social services and whatnot goes, I've always wondered how Sam and Dean could move around and get enrolled under their own name all the time without anyone catching up with them.  We know that by season 2, at least Dean was wanted for credit card theft, mail fraud, grave desecration, along with murder.  John may have somehow escaped being wanted for murder, but he had to have all that other stuff.  Add to the fact that Sam and Dean probably had multiple ER visits, this is someone social services would be interested in talking to.  So, if I can overlook that, I can overlook Victor somehow enrolling those 3 in school under the radar.  I in no way think he had legal custody.

And, as far as the house goes, assuming Victor owned it outright, all they have to do is hide the body and pay the taxes and nobody would notice.  I honestly don't remember my high school (or even junior high school) contacting my parents all unless I wanted to go home sick.  If I didn't have parents I would have avoided doing that.

[DittyDotDot]

16 hours ago, Katy M said:

As far as social services and whatnot goes, I've always wondered how Sam and Dean could move around and get enrolled under their own name all the time without anyone catching up with them.  We know that by season 2, at least Dean was wanted for credit card theft, mail fraud, grave desecration, along with murder.  John may have somehow escaped being wanted for murder, but he had to have all that other stuff.  Add to the fact that Sam and Dean probably had multiple ER visits, this is someone social services would be interested in talking to.  So, if I can overlook that, I can overlook Victor somehow enrolling those 3 in school under the radar.  I in no way think he had legal custody.

I don't think Sam and Dean ever stayed in one place long enough for anyone to catch on or be suspicious of John. And, even if someone did, by the time someone reported them to social services or whatnot, they would've been gone and moved on to the next town. Living under the radar was much easier back when Sam and Dean were young; basically before the information age. Enrolling your kids in school was much easier too. All you had to do was pretty much show up with your kids and sign a few papers. I'm sure John would tell them he'd get them their records from the previous school, but they'd move on before the school got too antsy about it. 

It's different with these kids. Not only is it a different time, so to speak, but they had permanent addresses and people who knew them--presumably all their lives--they weren't drifters like the Winchesters. But, TBH, I figure Victor can fake shit just like John did and the custody stuff just makes me laugh more than anything. It is just a silly TV show, after all.

[Katy M]

42 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

But, TBH, I figure Victor can fake shit just like John did

Yeah, that was basically my point.

My other big hangup about school is if Sam was only in any given school for a month at a time, how did they even grade him?  Schools are not all doing the same stuff at the same time.  English classes do not all read books in the same order.  The nightmare of how all that worked is beyond me.  I'm actually surprised John let the kids go to school after 8th grade or so.  At that point they would have enough education to hunt.  And, like you said they weren't around enough for anyone to get involved.  But, I have majorly digressed, so apologies all around.

[DittyDotDot]

19 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yeah, that was basically my point.

My other big hangup about school is if Sam was only in any given school for a month at a time, how did they even grade him?  Schools are not all doing the same stuff at the same time.  English classes do not all read books in the same order.  The nightmare of how all that worked is beyond me.  I'm actually surprised John let the kids go to school after 8th grade or so.  At that point they would have enough education to hunt.  And, like you said they weren't around enough for anyone to get involved.  But, I have majorly digressed, so apologies all around.

Don't apologize; regressing is the fun part sometimes! ;)

I figure John still had the boys going to school in order to hold on to his fantasy that their lives wouldn't always be like this. Someday they'd all get to have a normal life and they'd need an education when that day came. Plus, I think John really did want his boys to have an education and as much of a normal life as he could muster--right up to the moment he started to feel impending doom and threatened again. I'm of the belief that John lived in a constant survival-mode mentality for the 23 years after Mary died and it made him unpredictable and inconsistent at times. 

As to how the grading worked. I figure Sam's grades reflect whatever assignments and projects he did turn in while at that school. Which is kinda funny when you think about it. Was Sam really a straight A student, or did he just turn in a few A-assignments? Did he regurgitate the same assignments at different schools? Plus, must have been a total pain in the ass for Sam to apply for college. Tracking down and getting all those records together must have been a bitch. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I figure John still had the boys going to school in order to hold on to his fantasy that their lives wouldn't always be like this. Someday they'd all get to have a normal life and they'd need an education when that day came. Plus, I think John really did want his boys to have an education and as much of a normal life as he could muster--right up to the moment he started to feel impending doom and threatened again.

But didn't Dean drop out?  I know he got his GED, but that's usually because someone doesn't finish and graduate with their class.  So I wonder how old he was when he quit going to school.

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Was Sam really a straight A student, or did he just turn in a few A-assignments? Did he regurgitate the same assignments at different schools? Plus, must have been a total pain in the ass for Sam to apply for college. Tracking down and getting all those records together must have been a bitch. 

Actually, that's pretty smart if he did just regurgitate the same few assignments with minor modifications at each school.  Lol.  Probably made Dean proud: pulling one over on the teachers like that.  

I always figured Sam submitted bogus transcripts when he applied to college.  

[Katy M]

59 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

But didn't Dean drop out?  I know he got his GED, but that's usually because someone doesn't finish and graduate with their class.  So I wonder how old he was when he quit going to school

He did drop out.  He was just starting senior year in After School Special, and I figure that's the last time he went to school.

"I always figured Sam submitted bogus transcripts when he applied to college.  "

No way.  Schools check on transcripts.  Especially if they're going to give you a full-ride.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

53 minutes ago, Katy M said:

No way.  Schools check on transcripts.  Especially if they're going to give you a full-ride.

Yeah, well, it's been done before. (https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/5/18/harvard-wheeler-bail-monday/)  And as good as the boys (and allegedly John as well) are at credit card fraud (Credit companies are supposed to check that too.) I figure faking that was a breeze for Sam.  Besides, if he was at some small town school at the time, it was probably pretty easy to gain access to their system and alter his transcripts.  I'm not saying he changed his grades - probably would have just made it look like he didn't move around so much.  

[Katy M]

I'm not saying that it would be impossible, but it would be incredibly risky and I doubt Sam would have done it.  I know he was only 18 and he has been known to do incredibly stupid things, but this was his one chance out of the hunting world. If caught, not only would he not get into Stanford, he wouldn't get into any college.  Not only that, this is something that would hang over his head forever. I'm assuming he knew he wanted to be a lawyer when he started.  Faking transcripts to get into college which got you into law school is something that can get you de-barred 20 years down the road.

On another discussion, elsewhere, years ago, someone was surprised that Sam could get a full-ride moving around so much.  I'm of a mind that colleges love hard knock stories.  They would be like "oh, he moved 50 times and still got all A's. That so much harder than staying in one place." 

And, I'll also say this, Sam's moral compass has moved steadily south over the years.  In Swan Song, Chuck said Sam used to insist on honest work.  In Pilot, he seemed pretty disdainful of the credit card fraud thing and even turned down breakfast that would be purchased with the fraudulent card.  In Bugs, he mentioned that they could do honest work when Dean hustled pool and Dean was like honest versus quick and easy, no contest. 

[Hanahope]

I thought something was hinky the moment Krissy said her dad had been killed  by a vamp at their home, but she was left alive.  WTF?  Vamps would have killed everyone.  So I know there had to be something up, and was on to Victor working with the vamp pretty early.

I agree that even if the gates of hell are closed, there's still plenty of other things that need to be hunted.

ETA:  Ok, this is episode 18.  I was promised last season an episode with the alpha Vamp this season.  Only a few more to go.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Hanahope

[bettername2come]

I like the friendship between the three teens. I wouldn't mind seeing them again. I don't hate this one. I can believe Victor's plot. After all, people are crazy, and hunters always have a tragic backstory that makes them likely to snap. I like Dean trying to save the innocent vampire. It's not great, but I don't hate any of it. 

[Iju]

victor using vulnerable teens and making them murderers was just all kinds of wrong, glad he's dead.

i'm nicer to krissy this time, since she didn't come within moments of bobby's murder and ruin the whole vibe. her attempt to see grown by telling her friend about herself and dean was funny, "We have a past." the kids are pretty cool characters and i wouldn't mind just one episode when they appear again. i'm sorry SPN wrecked krissy up like that though. they didn't need to kill her family though, damn.

[The Companion]

On 12/16/2014 at 11:11 PM, DittyDotDot said:

 

You know what I remember most about this episode. I just couldn't wrap my head around how what's-his-name ended up with these kids in the first place. So their families are gone and social services just turned them over to this creepy guy? Was he a legit foster parent? Or did he just hang around outside their school and approach them with, "hey, I know you parents just got slaughtered and I can help you get some vengeance. All you have to do is come be my surrogate family." I remember thinking they needed to start showing those Stranger Danger films in school again.

 

Yeah, not a lot of sense came out of this episode.

Yup. The idea that these minors all went to live with some random guy? That's not how it works.

I liked the feel of the hunter team and the idea of the next generation but the twist seemed so obvious to me. Also, shut up Aidan. She doesn't need a boyfriend to tell you not to put your damn hands on her. Don't be a terrible human being.

I thought the Victor killed their parents twist was pretty predictable and would have loved the twist being that someone actually made it work. I will point out that we have seen families that did make it work for awhile, like Mary Campbell's. In retrospect, they were fairly well adjusted, as far as dysfunctional hunters go. It just happens to always end badly.

I don't think the writers knew what to do with Victor in the end and it shows. Dean says they don't kill people (debatable), and I agree it wouldn't have felt right in this context to sit by and let a teenager kill this guy, but there was nothing stopping him from doing it again with a new team and partner. So they had him kill himself, which felt abrupt.

[Katy M]

52 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Yup. The idea that these minors all went to live with some random guy? That's not how it works.

I'm sure they fudged paperwork for the school.  Krissie, at the very least, was probably already flying under the radar.

[The Companion]

Just now, Katy M said:

I'm sure they fudged paperwork for the school.  Krissie, at the very least, was probably already flying under the radar.

I suppose on the suspension of disbelief scale, this one isn't too bad. It was just distracting to think about. I guess one of his criteria must have been no close family because I would have a stroke if my nieces or nephew were taken in by some random dude

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I suppose on the suspension of disbelief scale, this one isn't too bad. It was just distracting to think about. I guess one of his criteria must have been no close family because I would have a stroke if my nieces or nephew were taken in by some random dude

I think the bigger question is how did he talk them into it in the first place?  Creepy guy shows up at my door after my family is killed and says "come live with me and get your revenge" I'd be like "I'm good."

[The Companion]

49 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think the bigger question is how did he talk them into it in the first place?  Creepy guy shows up at my door after my family is killed and says "come live with me and get your revenge" I'd be like "I'm good."

After the first kid, he probably had the kid approach first, which is actually way creepier when you think about it.