S01.E18: Judgement Day

[DoctorAtomic]

It would be nice if we found out Sam made one last appearance to Al to let him know everything was ok. I don't think he'd want Al passing on thinking he let down Sam by not finding him. 

They could always just 'try' to find Sam with that not being the overriding mission of the show. When or if Bakula wants to make an appearance, they can build up to that. 

The more pressing issue is this nuclear war, so I hope they don't drop it. 

[PurpleTentacle]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Hard disagree. Production values might be better but the original had a much simpler premise and more straightforward storytelling.

That's kinda the point isn't it? There wasn't much to it. Scott Bakula stumbled from story to story, most pretty simple and a lot kinda boring. I mean the writers didn't even know or care how the leaps worked. They gave that little of a crap about the overarching story.

The acting wasn't any better than it is in this iteration of quantum leap either.

So I'd say both iterations are just okay.

The original quantum leap only seems better if you compare it to shows of its time, since standards were quite a bit lower back then. But if you compare both shows as if they were running today, I think they are about the same in terms of quality.

12 hours ago, Starchild said:

But Sam didn't want to come home, right? He wanted to keep leaping and helping people? If so, then he's happy, closure unlocked.

Part of the opening of every episode is "Dr. Beckett finds himself leaping form life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home."

12 hours ago, Nerfect Drifty said:

That's kind of what I was saying.  If you assume that leaping through time caused the nuclear winter, then Martinez is the good guy trying to fix history, and the gang at PQL are the villains trying to thwart him.  I thought it was an interesting perspective to think of.

I mean sure, if you assume that. But that seems very far fetched.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The original quantum leap only seems better if you compare it to shows of its time, since standards were quite a bit lower back then. But if you compare both shows as if they were running today, I think they are about the same in terms of quality.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe the writing on the original was much cleaner and straightforward. The writing on this show was a mess. There was no focus, the mystery box aspect was annoying and tiresome, and a lot of it was just plain confusing. The original didn't have characters like Janis and Martinez delivering the narrative equivalent of "I know something you don't know, I have the answers but I can't tell you them for reasons."  The original premise was just must simpler, a time traveler putting right what once went wrong. The leaps in the reboot seemed irrelevant to the main story.

The concept of the leaps themselves made even less sense in the reboot. If Ben was literally possessing the leapee's body then there was no reason why we should have seen him as Ben. Or that Addison should recognize him on sight. And Ben had next to zero reaction to leaping into the body of a woman aside from learning how to walk on heels. Plus, what happened to Ben's own body? How exactly can he "possess" someone else's body? This raises all kinds of existential questions about spirits, bodies and souls. The original did not have this issue.

[Starchild]

12 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

The original quantum leap only seems better if you compare it to shows of its time, since standards were quite a bit lower back then.

I don't think it's fair to say that standards were lower back then. They were different. The style of television reflects society. Our entertainment expectations in the 80s were different than they are today, that's all. It's an evolution that you have to examine in its entirety, rather than comparing specific periods and judging based on current criteria.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I believe the writing on the original was much cleaner and straightforward.

Sure it was straight foreward, it still wasn't very good. Just okay.

Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's good. Simple things can be good, but they don't have to be.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The concept of the leaps themselves made even less sense in the reboot. If Ben was literally possessing the leapee's body then there was no reason why we should have seen him as Ben. Or that Addison should recognize him on sight. And Ben had next to zero reaction to leaping into the body of a woman aside from learning how to walk on heels. Plus, what happened to Ben's own body? How exactly can he "possess" someone else's body? This raises all kinds of existential questions about spirits, bodies and souls. The original did not have this issue.

Like any of that made sense in the original. Like I said before, the writers didn't even know how that worked and even went on record saying so. They flip floped around on that a bunch. At least here they gave an explaination how this all works.

My explaination why we see Ben as Ben: Because it's a TV show.

Why does Addison know it is Ben? Because the computer tells her so.

Let me ask a counter question: Why does Sam see the person he lept into in the mirror?

12 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I don't think it's fair to say that standards were lower back then. They were different. The style of television reflects society. Our entertainment expectations in the 80s were different than they are today, that's all. It's an evolution that you have to examine in its entirety, rather than comparing specific periods and judging based on current criteria.

So what you are saying is "standards were lower back then, but we should see it in the context of that times society"?

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Why does Addison know it is Ben? Because the computer tells her so.

 

Also, he frequently stands around saying "Addison! Where are you, Addison?" 😂

[KaveDweller]

14 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Part of the opening of every episode is "Dr. Beckett finds himself leaping form life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home."

The argument is that in the series finale of the original, Sam found out he could choose to go home but had a realization he didn't really want that, despite saying he did for the whole series. 

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Let me ask a counter question: Why does Sam see the person he lept into in the mirror?

Because the mirror showed what everyone else saw?

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So what you are saying is "standards were lower back then, but we should see it in the context of that times society"?

"standards were lower different back then, but and we should see it in the context of that times society"

FIFY

[iMonrey]

Quote

Let me ask a counter question: Why does Sam see the person he lept into in the mirror?

The trick of the Quantum Leap made everyone see the person Sam switched places with, including Sam when he looked into a mirror. But he wasn't actually possessing their bodies. He just switched places, and the person he switched with went into the Waiting Room at QL headquarters.

The idea that Ben is literally possessing another person is much more profound and problematic and raises all kinds of ethical (not to mention existential) issues.

Quote

Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's good. Simple things can be good, but they don't have to be.

Conversely, just because something is complicated doesn't mean it's good. They tried to make the premise of this show more complicated, maybe it worked for you but I found it to be largely an unnecessary mess.

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

They tried to make the premise of this show more complicated, maybe it worked for you but I found it to be largely an unnecessary mess.

This show tends to put a lot of emphasis on the emotions between Ben & Addison.  The show gets too sappy at times.  A little emotion goes a long way.  Yes, I am a robot!!  Just kidding. 

[Nerfect Drifty]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:31 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

That's not what I got from the OG finale. For one, the other guy there was leaping as himself and presumably didn't have a Ziggy to help him, so it's not like it's impossible to figure out what's going on, and it's not like both Ben and Sam figured it out before Addison or Al told him.

Stawpah was implied to be a ghost sent back to Earth to save Tonchi and Pete from the mine collapse.  Stawpah knew what was going on from personal memory.  Unless Sam is going to keep leaping into things he has a personal memory of, he's kinda screwed.

[DoctorAtomic]

I did not get that he was a ghost from what I watched. Also, it clearly showed the blue leaping effect when he looked at Sam. 

[secnarf]

Just a reminder that we have a thread to compare the original and current series (I think this one got a bit buried beneath all of the episode threads) and a separate thread for the original series itself. Some comparison and references in the episode threads is fine as it relates to the specific episode, as long as it doesn't overtake the discussion, but if you want to discuss in more detail, please move to the appropriate thread.

[North of Eden]

Good end to the season but...

Season two HAS to be about finding Sam...that's the best reason for Ben not returning home. It's the new mission.

I don't care if Scott Bakula doesn't appear until the last episode of season two, but this needs to happen...period.

The premise of the show is putting right what once went wrong...and the horrible finale of the original series needs to be put right as best it can, even without Al, unfortunately.

[DoctorAtomic]

You could deep fake Al. They did it for Luke on the Mandalorian. 

[Catfi9ht]

For some reason my DVR didn't save this episode, and it took me forever to get back to watching this episode. 🤦‍♀️

I really like this ensemble cast except for Addison (shocker!). Everyone has their own skill set that contributes to the stories in an interesting way and each leap is solved differently. As the season progressed, it seemed like Ian was really the hero of the show which of course I love. They're my favorite character with Jenn a close second.

I agree with everyone there was alot of sci-fi gibberish in this episode, but I was still emotionally invested in the characters. This tells me the gibberish isn't too nonsensical (for me). Otherwise I would be too frustrated to pay attention to anything else, and I wouldn't care about the characters.

I agree this show can be sappy and solve the issues up too neatly and quickly, but so did the first one. They're both only an hour each after all. If it is a criticism of this one, it's also a valid criticism of the first. Personally like I mentioned in the "Let Them Play" episode, I believe this show's thesis is "Be the change you wish to see in the world", which is why they're showing the rosiest outcomes when each episode wraps up.

I like how Raymond Lee's compassion and charisma is different than Scott Bakula's, but it's authentic enough to where I believe Ben's investment in wanting to change each person's life for the better. Honestly, I was skeptical of him because Scott Bakula was so gosh darn good as Sam, but he won me over because his chemistry is different yet is still convincing.

I thought the season got better as it went on, and the quality of the second half of the season is much better than the first. As the season progressed, I was looking forward to watching each episode (except for my forgetfulness about this one 😊).

When this reboot was announced, I was not a fan, but slowly this show won me over, and I'm glad it was renewed.

ETA: I thought it was cute (and good!) Ben asked Addison if he could change their shared history. This show does the concept of consent better than most shows.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Catfi9ht
Added thought about consent

[KittyQ]

Jen's secret message being "Turtle Time" from RHONY was great!