Terrafamilia November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 I don't mind Missy as a character, I just don't like her as the Master. My Master was Anthony Ainley. This Mistress/Master is certainly not that Master. She's doesn't even come across so much as John Simm's Master as she does Andrew Scott's Moriarty. I think I would have preferred it if she were her own character rather than being a stunt character revelation for Moffat. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-557626
elle November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 I don't mind Missy as a character, I just don't like her as the Master. My Master was Anthony Ainley. This Mistress/Master is certainly not that Master. She's doesn't even come across so much as John Simm's Master as she does Andrew Scott's Moriarty. I think I would have preferred it if she were her own character rather than being a stunt character revelation for Moffat. Again, a new nemesis would have been a refreshing change from stunt coordinator Moffat. Your Moriarty comment reminded me that I meant to ask, was Moffat behind the assignation of character that happened to "Irene Adler" in the Cumberbatch Sherlock? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-557668
Llywela November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Casting would be crucial, but I think there would be scenarios where a female Doctor would be at a disadvantage. If dropped into a society where women are subservient, Missy can just kill a few people to get respect; the Doctor doesn't work that way. Have there ever been any stories where the Doctor finds himself where men are subservient and his usual take-charge methods don't work? Galaxy 4 - the all-female Drahvins there saw men only as subservients and the Doctor had to be very canny to persuade them to cooperate (before figuring out they were the villains anyway) Very good point! Look at what happen to Martha when Ten went into hiding in pre-WWI Earth. Didn't Two often pretend to be less smart than he was to appear less of a threat? Yes, he did. If someone had told me last year that they were going to bring back the Master as a woman, I would have cringed, but I had no problem with Missy (actually, I loved her). Maybe it would be the same with a female Doctor, but I'm skeptical. Which may reflect a problem in my own thinking,although I do think that, whether we look at gender as biologically rooted or a pure product of social conditioning, the fact remains that gender does seem to me more rooted to a person's core identity than even things like race or ethnicity. It would be a lot harder for me to accept a female doctor as a logical continuation of the character, and I agree with tv-talk that it would be hard to avoid running into larger problems of how to write for a female Doctor. That doesn't mean it couldn't be done well and work, but there are a lot more potential pitfalls. The Master simply isn't as complex or central a figure as the Doctor, so the change worked far more easily than I think it would in his case. Yes. Like I said earlier, this show simply is not equipped to handle the scenario. It might think it is, but I've seen too much heated debate already over the finer points of the Master's 'transition' to female and what it means in terms of the history of the character and how s/he should be referred to. It would be an enormous mess, unbelievably divisive. Of course, Moffat kind of likes dividing the fanbase, so that doesn't mean he wouldn't do it. But hopefully he won't be around for the next regeneration. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-558693
darkestboy November 12, 2014 Author Share November 12, 2014 I would've preferred the Master to have remained male but the way I see it, it's done now and I've really enjoyed Gomez's take on the role. By the way, this might interest people too .... http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/11/doctor-who-michelle-gomez-confirms-her.html Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-559235
elle November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 ETA: Missy's portrayal of the Master really pissed me off. He was never. to use her words, "bananas". Megalomaniac, evil, manipulative, silly sometimes, but never insane. [He typed while giving the side-eye at "The End of Time"] Brought over from the episode thread... I think is this why the characterization of Missy reminds me of "Janice Lester" from Star Trek, insanely jealous and obsessed with the main character (Doctor/Kirk). That is not how I thought the Master operated. He had a plan, the Doctor was in the way, he had to get rid of the Doctor. Should Missy return (see above), may she get a writer that just sees a villain and not one that reduces her to a hysterical, screeching "female". 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-559977
companionenvy November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 I agree that Missy was different from Classic Masters, but think she was very much in line with John Simm's performance. Simm's Master was batshit insane. In fact, this became canon with the whole "drumming" thing. If anything, Gomez's was a little less over the top, substituting a clever plan for reveling in immediate power. In any case, it isn't like she wanted to woo the Doctor and play happy families with him. She was trying to bring him down to her level by tempting him with too much power - which, I imagine, she would have had a massive hand in wielding. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-560820
Llywela November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 (edited) In any case, it isn't like she wanted to woo the Doctor and play happy families with him. She was trying to bring him down to her level by tempting him with too much power - which, I imagine, she would have had a massive hand in wielding. Which just goes to show that the Master never learns, whatever face the character is wearing and whatever name the character is using. The Delgado Master tried to persuade the Doctor to rule the universe with him once upon a time. It didn't work out! MASTER: You must see reason, Doctor. DOCTOR: No, I will not join you in your absurd dreams of a galactic conquest. MASTER: Why? Why? Look at this. Look at all those planetary systems, Doctor. We could rule them all! DOCTOR: What for? What is the point? MASTER: The point is that one must rule or serve. That's a basic law of life. Why do you hesitate, Doctor? Surely it's not loyalty to the Time Lords, who exiled you on one insignificant planet? DOCTOR: You'll never understand, will you? I want to see the universe, not rule it. Colony in Space, 1971 And all these years later, the same basic dynamic is still playing out! Edited November 12, 2014 by Llywela 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-560845
wayne67 November 13, 2014 Share November 13, 2014 And all these years later, the same basic dynamic is still playing out! While I found Missi amusing in an Affably evil way, it often feels like one of those really repetitive fantastical sitcoms scenarios. It's rinse and repeat. Gladys might see us use magic/Darrin's clients will find out/ Endora has caused chaos (Bewitched). Instead of being an exciting adventure through all of time and space making new friends and battling assorted villains. It feels more like a show recycling 3 villains endlessly. Daleks, Cybermen and The Master. It's a rehash of the Master as a season long villain. It was done with greater subtlety the last time with Martha that added depth to the character. I fully expect Missi to show up again in another episode with another ridiculous plan. Maybe he should go back to the end of time and rule over the toclafane for laughs. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-562568
darkestboy November 13, 2014 Author Share November 13, 2014 Missy better show up again. She was way too fun just to be relegated to one two parter and a few scattered cameos. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-563065
darkestboy February 19, 2015 Author Share February 19, 2015 Missy will be in the opening two episodes of Series 9, titled The Magician's Apprentice and The Witch's Familiar ... http://bbcamerica.tumblr.com/post/111471102506/breaking-news-michelle-gomez-returns-as-missy-in Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-843274
alias1 February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Missy will be in the opening two episodes of Series 9, titled The Magician's Apprentice and The Witch's Familiar ... http://bbcamerica.tumblr.com/post/111471102506/breaking-news-michelle-gomez-returns-as-missy-in Well, I'm glad she'll be back. I liked her as a character, just didn't like her as the Master. I don't know why Moffat couldn't have written her as some other sort of rogue time lady. I'd rather see her than River Song, especially now that we have Capaldi. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-843696
HauntedBathroom February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 Glad to hear it, she was great! Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-844803
tv-talk February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 (edited) I liked Missy well enough but to be in the very next 2 episodes seems kind of lame to me. I guess it makes sense since she escaped and doesnt have some strange situation (like dying) to overcome before returning to her mischievous ways, but personally I'd have preferred she showed up again much later. If she's going to be in some convoluted plot with the Daleks that would be seriously stale. Having been watching lots of Classic Who lately it feels like there were far more "one off" villains and great serials that didnt necessarily relate to any broader story or narrative about the Doctor. Just random places he ended up and the situations he found there. NuWho needs more of that imho. Edited February 19, 2015 by tv-talk 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-845271
benteen February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 I know what you mean. The Tom Baker years had a lot of one-off villains and it worked well for the show. I like Missy too but I wonder if it's a mistake to bring her back immediately. I don't think she should be the season-ending villain but couldn't they bring her back like midway through the season? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-845288
Llywela February 20, 2015 Share February 20, 2015 It does seem a bit much - although not unprecedented, season 8 with the 3rd Doctor was all about the Master, he was the enemy in all five adventures. There were storyline reasons for that, though, given the Doctor's exile - the Master provided him with an ongoing enemy while avoiding having a new alien race trying to invade Earth every few weeks, and that overarching storyline developed through the season (and beyond). After the histrionics of the last season finale, who knows what the pretext for continually coming up against Missy will be now, but I'm sure it will involve lots of angst and woe, just when the Doctor and Clara looked like they were going to move past all that and start having actual fun. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-846568
darkestboy February 20, 2015 Author Share February 20, 2015 If it were me, I would've brought Missy back in a mid series episode or Christmas 2015 but either way, I'm beyond delighted she's back though. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/13638-missy-a-heavenly-scary-poppins/page/2/#findComment-847005
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