S21.E10: Black And Blue

[ML89]

13 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes Van Buren called McCoy “Jack” a few times and he called her “Anita” a few times as well - I found it interesting that Dixon called him “Jack” as well, given that he’s the DA and this was the first time they’ve shared a scene together. These characters usually use first names I’ve noticed, Dixon has called Price and Maroun by their first names as well, and it’s interesting how both Dixon and Cosgrove called Bernard “Kevin” when interestingly enough Van Buren and Lupo never did that. Bernard even called Dixon “Kate” one time, the detectives never called Van Buren by her first name. I find it interesting how the characters address each other and I kind of like how all of these characters usually use first names.

Thanks for that info, I had genuinely forgotten and it really threw me off.

I remember Van Buren not letting Logan call her Anita when he called Cragen Don. I remember Bernard calling Lupo "Lupes" but I don't remember what Lupo called him. I remember him hating the "St Bernard" tag.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, ML89 said:

Thanks for that info, I had genuinely forgotten and it really threw me off.

I remember Van Buren not letting Logan call her Anita when he called Cragen Don. I remember Bernard calling Lupo "Lupes" but I don't remember what Lupo called him. I remember him hating the "St Bernard" tag.

Yeah Van Buren didn’t like when Logan called her “Anita” and that was the only time a detective called her by her first name. The detectives always called Cragen “Don” or “Donny” on L&O, however on SVU everyone called him “Captain”.

Lupo either called Bernard “Bernard” or “KB” and yeah Bernard called him “Lupes”, they never used “Cyrus” and “Kevin”. So it was interesting how Cosgrove and Dixon always called Bernard “Kevin”, it made sense though as most of the detectives were called by their first names.

But yeah Van Buren called McCoy “Jack” several times, and Briscoe and Green called him “Jack” as well sometimes. I’m glad someone else noticed about Dixon calling McCoy “Jack” I found it interesting as well but it isn’t the first time for a cop to call a DA by their first name.

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

Yeah, I don't ever remember Cragen addressing Schiff or Van Buren ever addressing Schiff or Branch. They always communicated with the EADAs. I even remember when McCoy was ticked off at Van Buren for not bringing in reliable witnesses when McCoy wanted to put a rapist (and /or  murderer) back in prison. McCoy was almost sanctioned for using the police to harass the guy. Van Buren and McCoy had a good argument there, and she didn't back off at all

When it comes to the trials and how they may appear to start a week later. Didn't they use to put up a caption showing that things may appear weeks or months later by putting up a specific trial number with parts10, 20, or 30? They may even have been in Roman Numerals, if I remember right?

Cragen shared a few scenes with Schiff, and a couple of scenes with Branch when Branch appeared on SVU. And Van Buren shared a handful of scenes with both of them as well. Cragen did call Schiff “Adam” one time I believe. So yeah both Cragen and Van Buren did have scenes with DA’s, it didn’t happen often but it did happen.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Xeliou66

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, ML89 said:

but I don't remember what Lupo called him. I remember him hating the "St Bernard" tag.

I would almost call that disrespectful.

[Xeliou66]

21 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I would almost call that disrespectful.

Yeah no one on the show called Bernard that, Bernard just said that he was nicknamed “St Bernard” in school growing up and he wasn’t a big fan of dogs as a result.

[shapeshifter]

59 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I would almost call that disrespectful.

37 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah no one on the show called Bernard that, Bernard just said that he was nicknamed “St Bernard” in school growing up and he wasn’t a big fan of dogs as a result.

😢

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah no one on the show called Bernard that, Bernard just said that he was nicknamed “St Bernard” in school growing up and he wasn’t a big fan of dogs as a result.

But he was called Detective Cupcake for at least one episode.

[dargosmydaddy]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Lupo either called Bernard “Bernard” or “KB”

He called him "B" (no K).

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

He called him "B" (no K).

I’m pretty sure he used both, but now that I think about it he usually did just call him “B”. It’s interesting how Lupo/Bernard used nicknames with each other, while all of the other detectives have used first names.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Van Buren didn’t like when Logan called her “Anita” and that was the only time a detective called her by her first name. The detectives always called Cragen “Don” or “Donny” on L&O, however on SVU everyone called him “Captain”.

That always made sense to me. Except for possibly Logan I always got the feeling that the other detectives Greevey and Crerreta knew Cragen long before he was captain as friends and collegues on the force. So for them it made sense to call him Don and he didn't seem to mind for the same reason. Where Logan, Lenny and others never knew or interacted with Van Buren before she was their boss. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

But he was called Detective Cupcake for at least one episode.

Wait. What???
Context needed ASAP! 
Or was this just a ploy to see which of the new response emojis we would employ?

Edited June 3, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That always made sense to me. Except for possibly Logan I always got the feeling that the other detectives Greevey and Crerreta knew Cragen long before he was captain as friends and collegues on the force. So for them it made sense to call him Don and he didn't seem to mind for the same reason. Where Logan, Lenny and others never knew or interacted with Van Buren before she was their boss. 

I agree 100%, Greevey was partnered with Cragen before Cragen became Captain of the Homicide Squad, and he went back a ways with Cerreta as well, so it made sense that they would call him by his first name and the other detectives would follow suit. Whereas Cragen didn’t know the SVU people before, so it made sense they wouldn’t call him by his first name, same with how Van Buren didn’t know the Homicide detectives before becoming the boss so they never called her by her first name.

The DA’s almost always address each other by their first names, and when the police and DA’s interact, they tend to alternate between being formal and informal with each other.

[WendyCR72]

The franchise played fast and loose with formal versus informal, and yeah, it likely depended upon the history the detectives had with their superior. Criminal Intent was very formal. All the superiors were called "captain" until S10, when Goren's Academy pal, Joe Hannah, was captain of MCS. And that was the only time I ever heard Goren address a captain by his first name.

So context did make a difference, on all the franchise shows.

[Prevailing Wind]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait. What???
Context needed ASAP! 
Or was this just a ploy to see which of the new response emojis we would employ?

Victim found dead in her car, box of cupcakes on the seat next to her. Bernard expressed a preference for cupcakes. I suppose you could say it went viral around the station house.

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Victim found dead in her car, box of cupcakes on the seat next to her. Bernard expressed a preference for cupcakes. I suppose you could say it went viral around the station house.

So this one???
18.15 "Bogeyman" 

Quote

Lupo and his new partner, Kevin Bernard, discover that a woman's suicide may actually be a murder. The case appears to be tied to a secretive religious group that some people consider a cult, but is the group to blame?

• [LUPO?] So the fact that she bought cupcakes right before she suicided, doesn't bother you anymore?
• [BERNARD?] Maybe she thought it would cheer her up. Always works for me.

*********************************

[SHAPESHIFTER SIGHS DISAPPOINTEDLY] And I guess this means that only fans called him "Detective Cupcake"?

Edited June 3, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Prevailing Wind]

I seem to remember somebody left a cupcake on his after that. Perhaps I dreamed it.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I seem to remember somebody left a cupcake on his after that. Perhaps I dreamed it.

That does seem like something I saw too.

[KittyQ]

This was a disappointing episode for me. I suspect that the writing is the primary problem.  They haven't made the DAs (including Jack) strong enough to confidently prosecute these cases. I get that there's some strategizing involved in what to charge the defendant with - overcharge and they might get off, undercharge, and they don't get the punishment they deserve. However, in OG L&O, those kinds of tradeoffs were discussed on screen and the give and take between the DA and the EADA (?) make it clear why they did what they did. Now, it seems like Nolen just makes these choices on his own. I was glad that he tried to explain it to Cosgrove, but that seemed more like an argument than an explanation.

I also didn't like that he didn't point out the discrepancies between testimony of the witnesses, and how the defendant's description made little sense. IMO if she didn't have a gun out and pointed at the "boyfriend", there would be very little reason for the cop to approach them at all, let alone with a gun. A man and woman arguing in the street in a city can't be that unusual that a bystander needs to intervene. Someone above said that perhaps the idea was to lead the jury to that conclusion, but that seems awfully subtle in a case where the defense is that this was primarily a race-based encounter. 

The ending dialogue? Are they trying to make Haroun sound dim? Quoting Nolen to himself is such a trite thing to do, plus he just doesn't seem like that great of a lawyer. I wish she had an old Jack McCoy quote - that would have been a good ending. 

I would make whoever the writers are spend the summer watching old L&O episodes to see how it is done before they screw it up permanently.