S02.E05: A Lucky and Narrow Escape

[TexasGal]

Quote

It's the election of January 1835, and revolution is in the air in Halifax. Returned to Shibden Hall and determined to move on from Mariana Lawton, Anne Lister throws herself into furthering the Tory cause.

Airdate: 05.08.2022

Season 2 episodes are airing in the UK a few weeks earlier than in the US.  Anyone waiting for the US airing - don't enter if you don't want to be spoiled!

[SparedTurkey]

I wonder if the more comfortable Ann W is getting at Shibden, the more comfortable she is allowing herself to be smart. She has totally clocked the Mariana-shagging of last episode and felt comfortable enough to toe around it with Anne. She also clocked her B-I-L's plan to destabilise her by the 'distressings' and evictions requested by her sister before Anne did and is fully over how controlling of her sister he is. She was also slightly quicker on what the possible consequences of the mob could mean for Shibden than Anne was. I like the development and that her assertiveness is the only thing holding her back really.

Anne...she was brutal with Marion and just cruel. I got the initial distaste for the dude in the beginning when it was more that he dropped Marian like a sack of potatoes and I was all "aww sisters". But disowning her cause he is a wool stapler? Especially when she is living on the edge with Ann like that with the only grace being the idea of companions (until the marriage announcement at the end). Bit hypocritical. At least they aren't shying away from the less pleasant sides of Anne Lister to fall into the gay icon narrative I also loved the way Suranne Jones made "Wool Stapler" sound like "sheep shagger". But Marion needed a hug! And Anne needed to get into the corner.

I also love Mrs Cordingley - and the eye roll after she caught the young ones eyeballing each other

[Llywela]

I am very late watching every episode these days, I never seem to catch them live!

I do appreciate about the show that it takes a warts and all approach to Anne Lister. Often, shows with a central eponymous hero want that hero to always look good, but Gentleman Jack is quite up front about Anne's flaws and failings, such as her horrendous snobbery, her tendency to run roughshod over any and every obstacle, and her deeply committed Tory politics - committed to the point of electoral corruption, even.

Poor Marion. She literally has nothing but her family, lives on the goodwill of her more fortunate sister - and that sister would rather disown her completely than unbend enough to accept her marriage to a man she thinks beneath her, wouldn't dream of attempting to understand her point of view even a little.

That French maid seems to be working her way through all the footmen! You'd think she'd have learned her lesson last time. It's not as if she has access to any birth control, and a footman's wage wasn't much, so they'd have a hard time of it if they got into trouble.

[natyxg]

Well, I liked this episode more than I expected. I liked that it covered a specific historical event, even though I do get lost in all the random names of people and politicians I don’t know. I know Anne probably came across as unlikeable in this episode, but I already knew all this stuff about her, and I can try to put myself in her shoes and be forgiving, given the times and her specific background.

I loved the scene between Marian and Anne, for the acting, specially.

I would’ve liked more Ann(e)s, though. I always want more Ann(e)s. I liked the scene with the massage and you can see that Anne feels guilty about what happened with Mariana. It's implied that Ann suspects that something happened at Lawton, but I don’t know if it will over be brought to the surface. I hope so. At the very least it would be an intense scene.

That moment in the morning when Anne tucks Ann in was sweet.

The newspaper announcement is a pretty well known moment that did happen in real life, and played out very close to what we see on the show. You can even see the actual newspaper in archives. And Anne and Ann did try to play it off in front of Washington when he showed it to them.

[izabella]

Marion looked lovely in the candlelight while she made eyes at her chatty suitor.  Poor Marion.

So, those tenants who are too old to work the land just get evicted and just have no home anymore?   Ann is not wrong for worrying the mob with pitchforks might turn on Shibden Hall.

Who placed the marriage announcement?  Was that Ann's brother in law?

[izabella]

On 5/16/2022 at 1:10 PM, Llywela said:

Poor Marion. She literally has nothing but her family, lives on the goodwill of her more fortunate sister - and that sister would rather disown her completely than unbend enough to accept her marriage to a man she thinks beneath her, wouldn't dream of attempting to understand her point of view even a little.

I felt so sad for Marion when Anne told her she would always have a place at her table, and Marion said she wanted to have a baby and be a mother some day.  Anne never considered that, I'm sure.  If Anne has such strong feelings about Marion not marrying beneath her status, then maybe she could help introduce her to men Anne would approve of.   Where is Marion going to meet a guy of her social class?  It's not like they have parties and dances at Shibden, nor do they seem to go to any.

[gingerella]

They should set Marion up with that chap who came round to ask Ann to marry him, her childhood pal. He and Marion would make a lovely couple methinks!

[sugarbaker design]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:19 AM, izabella said:

Who placed the marriage announcement?  Was that Ann's brother in law?

Or one of the Rawson brothers?  Marian's beau?

Lister was so infuriating in the scene with Marian.  I hope Marian isn't destined for spinsterhood at Shibden Hall.

One of my favorite sub-plots of Season 1 was Lister investigating little Henry Hardcastle's accident.  Although the Hardcastles have made appearances, there's been nary a mention until Episode 5 Season 2.  I don't think I quite understood Mr. Hardcastle's scene with Miss Lister.  Was she intimating that Rawson's carriages being trashed during the riot had something to do with Henry's accident?  Was Mr. Hardcastle pleased or not with Miss Lister as she was walking away?

[natyxg]

4 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Or one of the Rawson brothers?  Marian's beau?

Lister was so infuriating in the scene with Marian.  I hope Marian isn't destined for spinsterhood at Shibden Hall.

One of my favorite sub-plots of Season 1 was Lister investigating little Henry Hardcastle's accident.  Although the Hardcastles have made appearances, there's been nary a mention until Episode 5 Season 2.  I don't think I quite understood Mr. Hardcastle's scene with Miss Lister.  Was she intimating that Rawson's carriages being trashed during the riot had something to do with Henry's accident?  Was Mr. Hardcastle pleased or not with Miss Lister as she was walking away?

I thought it was the guy who called her Gentleman Jack after the canals meeting because he had called her Captain Lister in the episode before.

Regarding Hardcastle, I think the point was that even though they couldn't do anything against Rawson, karma got him to a degree because he lost his carriages. In the scene Hardcastle goes from being uncomfortable with Anne (because he knows about her and Ann), to warming up to her a bit after she told him how she tried to help bring justice to Henry.

[sugarbaker design]

20 minutes ago, natyxg said:

I thought it was the guy who called her Gentleman Jack after the canals meeting because he had called her Captain Lister in the episode before.

Right!  He was so intimidating.

21 minutes ago, natyxg said:

Regarding Hardcastle, I think the point was that even though they couldn't do anything against Rawson, karma got him to a degree because he lost his carriages. In the scene Hardcastle goes from being uncomfortable with Anne (because he knows about her and Ann), to warming up to her a bit after she told him how she tried to help bring justice to Henry.

Thanks, that makes so much sense.

[tennisgurl]

Anne was really showing her least likable traits this week, and while she's seriously frustrating I appreciate that the show doesn't sugarcoat the real life Anne. For all she strove to carve her own path as a woman she was sure happy to make sure other people (poorer people) stayed in their lane. I like that the show covered an actual historical event here, even if it was a lot of talk about names I don't know, I got the gist, and Anne reacted to it in pretty much the exact way I expected her to. When her friend started pondering if the angry people might have a good reason to be angry, Anne just blew it off as rabble rousers not knowing how society is supposed to be and went right on to try to committ election fraud so that the "right people" are in charge of the vote. Its certainly not a coincidence that in this same episode, the Anne's easily blew past them evicting several elderly impoverished tenants. I just cant imagine why people are upset! Anne is still holding onto those snobbish views about class as hard as she can, ignoring the fact that the times are changing. Its just like when she was talking about what happened in France, the problem was the silly poor people forgetting their place and getting violent, not any sort of issue involving economic inequality. 

Speaking of snobbery, she was so terribly cruel to poor Marion all because she wants to marry the wool maker, which Anne says the way other people might say crack dealer. That was hard to watch, at first I thought Anne might have a point if the guy really did leave Marian high and dry, but really it just seems to come down to her not wanting a commoner associated with the Lister name, even if it means totally cutting her sister off. Its not like Marian seems to have a lot of choices of bachelors in the area, if Anne was so concerned about her sisters marital status she should have introduced her to some men she approved or taken her out to socialize more, its not like Marian would be a bad choice for a wife for some gentlemanly sort. I think Anne expected Marian to stay at home as an old maid who looks after their elderly relatives and the property when Anne is off having adventures, it never occurred to her that Marian might have wanted anything else beyond their home. She looked absolutely shocked when Marian said that she wanted to be a mother, Anne tends to see herself as the main character in her own life and everyone else is a supporting character, so its quite the shock to hear her supporting character sister go off script and talk about her own wants.

Edited May 26, 2022 by tennisgurl

[gingerella]

Finally watched this episode today. Yeah, Anne was a bitch to alot of people. I loathe the way she tries to come across as the benevolent land owner whilst making her staff feel as though they are going to be out out on the street. ie: the infirmed cook. Sending her off to her sister's to rest, and yet holding an unspoken threat over her that if she did go to her sister's there mightn't be a job for her when she was ready to come back. And the way she treats George - sending him out at all hours and in all kinds of weather at her silly whims to do her bidding. That said, I don't get why that silly French maid is still hanging about. Send her back to Paris. She plays no role and them suddenly she's oogling one of the footman and boinking him in the carriage? We've seen nothing of her and now this? Don't waste my time with characters that I never get to know.

Ann is...I don't know...she's astute that something is up with Anne and Marianna, and yet, she cannot manage to do right by her tenants. She seems a bit dim to me. Always a damsel in distress. Her shtick gets old. I want her to blow up, stand up to Anne, to her brother in law. Probably not going to happen, I know...

Edited May 29, 2022 by gingerella

[SparedTurkey]

On 5/29/2022 at 2:47 PM, gingerella said:

I loathe the way she tries to come across as the benevolent land owner whilst making her staff feel as though they are going to be out out on the street. ie: the infirmed cook. Sending her off to her sister's to rest, and yet holding an unspoken threat over her that if she did go to her sister's there mightn't be a job for her when she was ready to come back.

I didn't think that she was threatening her at all. I think it was a rare time she was trying to be kind to someone of the "lower" class than she was and was actually trying to show she cares on some level - by getting the doctor to look at her first and then resorting to the more humid climate medicine of those times. Anne isnt gonna be someone who calls her staff by their first names but will help a cripple boy go to school, teach physics and maths in a Sunday school and send a cook for rest. Anne has/had bad traits but there is some good sides, like everyone.

[Chaos Theory]

I actually like Anne because she is so complicated.   She truly believes because she is wealthy and owns vast amounts of land and is the head of her family that it shouldn’t matter that she is a woman but on the flip side she believes that her servants and the people who work on her land shouldn’t have the rights and privileges as her.    Birth status not gender is what matters to her but again on the flip side if she finds someone valuable or likeable she is willing to give them steps to better themselves.  

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

I didn't think that she was threatening her at all. I think it was a rare time she was trying to be kind to someone of the "lower" class than she was and was actually trying to show she cares on some level - by getting the doctor to look at her first and then resorting to the more humid climate medicine of those times.

It's interesting how people can watch the same thing and see completely different things. I saw her force the doctor on the cook knowing she wouldn't want to be seen. I saw Anne trying to catch her out, that she wasn't really feeling as poorly as she said she was. So she insisted the Doctor look at Cook and was smirking about it. Then the way she said she could go to her sister's, there was a clear underlying message of 'if you go your job mightn't be here waiting for you but you should go...'

[SparedTurkey]

17 hours ago, gingerella said:

Then the way she said she could go to her sister's, there was a clear underlying message of 'if you go your job mightn't be here waiting for you but you should go...'

I rewatched that scene and I really didn't interpret it in any way like that. I agree Anne forced the doctor on her - likely a class attitude of 'we know best' and Cordingley didn't want that whatsoever. I think there was enough in Cordingley's reaction that she's not seen a good doctor in her living memory given her reaction.

From then in large part the tension is from the "can't lie in bed all day' comment which Cordingley thought would be taken as a dig against Aunt Ann when I don't think it was at all. Anne telling her to check in with her sister was more her way of giving a lower class the likely accepted treatment of the time - rest and a warmer climate. When Cordingley asks who will cook, Anne says she will find someone, "temporarily" and dips down so she is eye level when she says it which to me is as close to kind Anne really gets with a servant. Her voice is not as harsh as usual and while is slightly rapidfire not to the same level as her usual Anne. I think it was more her way of trying to be nice to an sore servant and making it a bit clearer she wasn't truly offended by the bed comment.

I'm not saying everyone has to see things the same way that was just how I took that scene. I think Anne's behavior with Cordingley was a hell of a lot nicer than the young servant girl at Mariana's place.