Season 20: Say It Ain’t The End! (Spoiler Alert! It's Not)

[GHScorpiosRule]

 If someone can up up with a better tag, lemme know. I was debating whether to use Jack’s awesome “GET OUTTA MY WAY!” Or something related to Van Buren leaving, but wasn’t sure.

Final season (at the time) with Jack voted and chosen as District Attorney.

And Van Buren’s cancer story line. I’m stilll miffed they turned her husband into a disease spreading cheating asshole, instead of just having Ernie Hudson recast as her husband. All moot.

And Lupo and Bernard go beardless!!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If someone can up up with a better tag, lemme know.

Not necessarily "better," but a couple of options/ideas:

1. Until We Meet Again -- In 22 years
2. 22 Years To Life
    

1. Until We Meet Again -- In 12 years
2. 12 Years To Life

The second option is a bit of a pun/play on words.

Edited February 7, 2022 by shapeshifter

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Not necessarily "better," but a couple of options/ideas:

1. Until We Meet Again -- In 22 years
2. 22 Years To Life

The second option is a bit of a pun/play on words.

More like 12 years. The show ended in 2010.

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

More like 12 years. The show ended in 2010.

Oops!
Correcting now!

2 minutes later...

Fixed!
Although "12 Years To Life" doesn't have as authentic of a ring to it. 🤷‍♀️

Edited February 7, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Halting Hex]

Wow.  I had no idea the show was coming back.

I'd question bringing Jack back, given both his and Waterston's age (remember Jack had been a D.A for 25 years before we meet him.  It's now 53 years since he graduated law school, at least).  But, given Robert Morgenthau, why not?

Very excited for Jeffrey Donovan.  Did not know blackish… had ended, so glad to have AA back.  Hope he gets the lead spot in the credits, before somebody starts complaining (even jokingly) about how many years African-American detectives spend in the #2 spot, bar Green's final 1+ seasons.

Er, topic?  Favorite S20 episodes:

20.22, "Love Eternal", easily.  Even without one last helping of "Reg Rogers, total asshole", so much fun. 

20.08, "Doped".  Or as I call it, "Pfizer sucks, volume III".  Such good work by Connie to find out all the little details after what seems like a slam dunk in the first half turns out to be not much of an actual case.

20.15, "Brilliant Disguise".  Just because I love Jess Weixler.

20.17, "Four Cops Shot".  Nice work by Mike rescuing the case after it seemed to go down the toilet.

20.10, "Shotgun".  Clever plot and fine work from Elliot Gould.

I think it's a strong season overall (very few "Oh, come on!" endings, IMO), but those are my five faves, at least at the moment.

 

[Xeliou66]

I love season 20, it’s one of my favorite seasons, I think the chemistry between the characters was outstanding and they really gelled well together, and the cases were really strong. It’s hard to pick out my favorites, however I have 2 least favorites, 2 episodes that I absolutely cannot stand - Just a Girl in the World and Dignity. The former was extremely soapy and had Lupo behaving extremely OOC, while the latter was just disgusting political propaganda. I usually skip those episodes when they are on. Other than those 2 episodes however, the season was fantastic.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Premiere:

The jury TOTALLY found that asshat Franklin guilty!!

Oh Rene! You disappointed me by not letting the verdict in before the SDNY came in! It’s fiction, after all. I’m hoping this is the last we see a ripped from the headlines dealing with 9/11. And the financial crisis.

[Xeliou66]

I thought the ending to Memo From the Dark Side was realistic but frustrating, I wanted that piece of shit Franklin behind bars, and I absolutely loved Jack taking the torturers to task for their actions. There were a couple of lines that stood out to me in that episode, particularly when Cutter was cross examining Franklin and he kept trying to justify torture and get around the constitution and Cutter bluntly asked him “what is it about this country you don’t get?” that was pretty great. Also when that US Attorney basically accused Jack and the DA’s office of treason, and Jack said “what are you accusing me of?!” with such rage in his voice, his delivery was perfect, he didn’t scream but you could tell just how enraged he was at a guy he once liked calling him a traitor. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

38 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought the ending to Memo From the Dark Side was realistic but frustrating, I wanted that piece of shit Franklin behind bars, and I absolutely loved Jack taking the torturers to task for their actions. There were a couple of lines that stood out to me in that episode, particularly when Cutter was cross examining Franklin and he kept trying to justify torture and get around the constitution and Cutter bluntly asked him “what is it about this country you don’t get?” that was pretty great. Also when that US Attorney basically accused Jack and the DA’s office of treason, and Jack said “what are you accusing me of?!” with such rage in his voice, his delivery was perfect, he didn’t scream but you could tell just how enraged he was at a guy he once liked calling him a traitor. 

Yup. And it was also true that torture doesn’t work, as that one witness testified. What he said is what a lot of ex-CIA in real life had said. They’ll say anything to make it stop.

Franklin was so ripped off as former AG Gonzalez. I’m cynical enough that I think they wrote this after a new administration took over, because why write this nearly a decade after all this came out?

And give me a FUCKING break with the binders of motions the government tossed on the table. Federal courts have PAGE LIMITATIONS as to how long a brief or motion can be. The longest brief I ever worked on was 100 pages. So that scene just made me 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 so HARD.

Mike did a wonderful job on cross, considering his own personal beliefs. Very Ben Stone.

I did love Jack’s smile at the end, though.

Edited February 10, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

“Great Satan” was a mixed batch for me. I was only interested in Van Buren’s storyline.

I know that she and Jack had their issues, but by Season 17, I thought they had crossed into friends territory. But when Jack asked her how she was doing, Van Buren looked…pissed? As if he had no business asking after her? Their relationship is one of my favorites l, so it was just odd.

I did get verklempt at seeing Michael Kenneth Williams.

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

“Great Satan” was a mixed batch for me. I was only interested in Van Buren’s storyline.

I know that she and Jack had their issues, but by Season 17, I thought they had crossed into friends territory. But when Jack asked her how she was doing, Van Buren looked…pissed? As if he had no business asking after her? Their relationship is one of my favorites l, so it was just odd.

I did get verklempt at seeing Michael Kenneth Williams.

Yeah I found Van Buren’s reaction to Jack asking her how she was doing a bit odd, maybe Van Buren just didn’t like people knowing about her illness? That’s the only thing I can think of, is that she didn’t want people to know she was sick and didn’t want people constantly asking. But I agree it was a bit odd.

Great Satan’s case was pretty good, not the best of season 20 but not bad.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I found Van Buren’s reaction to Jack asking her how she was doing a bit odd, maybe Van Buren just didn’t like people knowing about her illness? That’s the only thing I can think of, is that she didn’t want people to know she was sick and didn’t want people constantly asking. But I agree it was a bit odd.

It's been a while since I saw that scene, but it can be very tricky dealing with HR and health care benefits in the work place for something like a serious cancer diagnosis that potentially means taking a lot of time off. 

Most likely the writers had heard of or observed people in the workplace who didn't want their cancer talked about and had no idea of the financial reasons related to employer health insurance.

For example, in the 2010s, a coworker wisely kept mum about her cancer, wearing convincing wigs during chemo. I, on the other hand, foolishly told my boss who then felt obligated to tell HR. My boss wound up letting me "work from home" to make up for the 50% temporary cut in pay I would have received otherwise, but I also wound up getting 2 surgeries simultaneously to avoid losing my health insurance altogether due to a 6 month limit per sickness in the policy. Ironically(?) having the 2 surgeries together may have saved my life.

Maybe NYPD had similar health and disability benefits policies?

Having cancer or heart disease can also make the higher-ups see the employee as being on the road to retirement rather than advancement.

But I do think it fit with Van Buren's character to see her illness as being "on a need to know basis" lest it diminish her respect in the eyes of anyone.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I found Van Buren’s reaction to Jack asking her how she was doing a bit odd, maybe Van Buren just didn’t like people knowing about her illness? That’s the only thing I can think of, is that she didn’t want people to know she was sick and didn’t want people constantly asking. But I agree it was a bit odd.

 

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

It's been a while since I saw that scene, but it can be very tricky dealing with HR and health care benefits in the work place for something like a serious cancer diagnosis that potentially means taking a lot of time off. 

Most likely the writers had heard of or observed people in the workplace who didn't want their cancer talked about and had no idea of the financial reasons related to employer health insurance.

For example, in the 2010s, a coworker wisely kept mum about her cancer, wearing convincing wigs during chemo. I, on the other hand, foolishly told my boss who then felt obligated to tell HR. My boss wound up letting me "work from home" to make up for the 50% temporary cut in pay I would have received otherwise, but I also wound up getting 2 surgeries simultaneously to avoid losing my health insurance altogether due to a 6 month limit per sickness in the policy. Ironically(?) having the 2 surgeries together may have saved my life.

Maybe NYPD had similar health and disability benefits policies?

Having cancer or heart disease can also make the higher-ups see the employee as being on the road to retirement rather than advancement.

But I do think it fit with Van Buren's character to see her illness as being "on a need to know basis" lest it diminish her respect in the eyes of anyone.

No, that’s not it. She announced to her whole squad that she’d been diagnosed with cancer-it was manageable, but she would be in and out. That the Chief of Detectives was aware. No way that the DA’s office wouldn’t hear about it.

The look on her face when Jack asked about her was one of pissed off anger and none of your business. And it made NO SENSE.

[Arcadiasw]

I checked ahead and it seems WE won't air the rest of Season 20. 🥺

[Xeliou66]

9 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

I checked ahead and it seems WE won't air the rest of Season 20. 🥺

I noticed that, season 20 stops on Monday afternoon after episode 15 Brilliant Disguise and when L&O starts again on Tuesday morning it starts with the beginning of season 1. While I look forward to seeing the early seasons again, I was hoping they would show all of season 20.

[Arcadiasw]

In "Just a Girl in the World", when Van Buren kicked Bernard out of her office to talk Lupo, I wish I was the fly on the wall. 🤭🤭🤭

 

Just watched "Reality Bites". I don't  remember watching this episode or ending so I was in shock like Jack at the end. 😱🤣

 

Was this the only reference to Arthur Branch?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Arcadiasw

[GHScorpiosRule]

16 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

 

Was this the only reference to Arthur Branch?

In this season? Yes. There was a throw away in season 18 that Jack was interim DA when Foghorn left.

As for the rest of this season, I’ll catch them on Peacock, if only for the finale when Jack gets all passionate and tells that dickwad to “GET THE HELL OUTTA MY WAY!”

[Arcadiasw]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

In this season? Yes. There was a throw away in season 18 that Jack was interim DA when Foghorn left.

As for the rest of this season, I’ll catch them on Peacock, if only for the finale when Jack gets all passionate and tells that dickwad to “GET THE HELL OUTTA MY WAY!”

Oh I mean at the end of Reality Bites where Arthur Branch was asked to be the reality show judge.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Oh I mean at the end of Reality Bites where Arthur Branch was asked to be the reality show judge.

Yes. It's the only time Foghorn is referenced in the at the time final season.

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. It's the only time Foghorn is referenced in the at the time final season.

Is "Foghorn" a nickname for the L&O character of Adam Schiff? 
I tried Googling, but can't find any references.
Does it refer to particular L&O or Looney Tunes episodes? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is "Foghorn" a nickname for the L&O character of Adam Schiff? 
I tried Googling, but can't find any references.
Does it refer to particular L&O or Looney Tunes episodes? 

That is my nickname for Arthur Branch.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That is my nickname for Arthur Branch.

Ooohhh! I get it. (I think?) 
It's the Down Home Pearls Of Wisdom:
https://kidadl.com/articles/best-foghorn-leghorn-quotes-from-looney-tunes
Like: "That dog's as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrel of oatmeal."

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Ooohhh! I get it. (I think?) 
It's the Down Home Pearls Of Wisdom:
https://kidadl.com/articles/best-foghorn-leghorn-quotes-from-looney-tunes
Like: "That dog's as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrel of oatmeal."

It's not so much of what he says, but that I found it jarring that the new District Attorney of New York was Southern. And when he pontificated or went on whatever political statements he was making, my mind went to Foghorn Leghorn, and so that's what I call him.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

And I just completed the last seven episodes on Peacock.

I mostly just concentrated on Van Buren’s cancer story. While a different cancer, her story so resonated with me and the ending of her “Thank you, Thank you, Thank you” NEVER fails to make me tear up and it was a perfect ending not letting the viewers tell her the cancer was gone. Her gasp and tears could have meant it was still there. René both wrote and directed this.

And while the would be killer ended up being a former teacher, I still wanted to bitchslap the grand jury who refused to grant the subpoena. I guess they didn’t think a Columbine would happen in New York. 

On to Season One Again! Then the SEASON PREMIERE!!! of 21 Next Week!

[Prairie Rose]

S20 has one of my favorite quotes:

Lupo: Fishing for a needle in the ocean. Old Chinese saying.

Van Buren: Just do it. Old American saying.

- "Rubber Room"

[katie9918]

I still squeal in this season when Skoda popped back in after a five-year absence without so much as a by-your-leave and he’s just hanging out like he was just there last week. Which he probably was, in-universe.

Wonder if two-time Oscar nominee, one-time (and counting) Oscar winner JK Simmons might want to pop in again if possible?

Season 20 was pretty good. I wouldn’t have been surprised at a cancellation notice around 17 or 18. Even 19. But I was surprised because the show seemed to be getting good again.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, katie9918 said:

I still squeal in this season when Skoda popped back in after a five-year absence without so much as a by-your-leave and he’s just hanging out like he was just there last week. Which he probably was, in-universe.

Wonder if two-time Oscar nominee, one-time (and counting) Oscar winner JK Simmons might want to pop in again if possible?

Season 20 was pretty good. I wouldn’t have been surprised at a cancellation notice around 17 or 18. Even 19. But I was surprised because the show seemed to be getting good again.

Season 20 was awesome IMO, some really good episodes, as I’ve said before, I strongly dislike Dignity and Just a Girl in the World, but other than those 2 episodes the season was stellar. And yeah it was awesome that Skoda appeared again, Skoda’s awesome, and I would absolutely love if he appeared again in the future. 

[Xeliou66]

Doped was on today, this is a great episode and I wanted to say again fuck that greedy turd of a boss who caused the crash, he was a piece of shit. I really like this episode - some really good detective work in figuring it all out, I liked seeing ME Rodgers come to the station to give them the info about the driver being drugged. And I really liked the twist at the end regarding the motive, in that it wasn’t he was trying to silence her but rather that he was a whistleblower as well who got greedy and wanted all of the reward money. I think the perp was lucky he only got 20 years, I mean that’s a long sentence but he was responsible for the deaths of 7 people including children, fuck him, he should’ve gotten 7 life sentences I think. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Doped was on today, this is a great episode and I wanted to say again fuck that greedy turd of a boss who caused the crash, he was a piece of shit. I really like this episode - some really good detective work in figuring it all out, I liked seeing ME Rodgers come to the station to give them the info about the driver being drugged. And I really liked the twist at the end regarding the motive, in that it wasn’t he was trying to silence her but rather that he was a whistleblower as well who got greedy and wanted all of the reward money. I think the perp was lucky he only got 20 years, I mean that’s a long sentence but he was responsible for the deaths of 7 people including children, fuck him, he should’ve gotten 7 life sentences I think. 

He definitely should have gotten more then 20 years. That was crap.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

He definitely should have gotten more then 20 years. That was crap.

Yeah, I know his lawyer talked about a renunciation defense since he called Brenda and tried to get her to stop driving, but I still think they probably should’ve taken the case to trial and tried to get consecutive sentences for murder against that turd. He should never see the light of day again. I wonder if all of the victims families thought the sentence was okay, we only saw Brenda’s husband at the end. Still a great episode, I really like most season 20 episodes, but I thought he should’ve gotten 7 consecutive sentences for the deaths he caused rather than concurrent sentences of 20 years.

[andromeda331]

29 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah, I know his lawyer talked about a renunciation defense since he called Brenda and tried to get her to stop driving, but I still think they probably should’ve taken the case to trial and tried to get consecutive sentences for murder against that turd. He should never see the light of day again. I wonder if all of the victims families thought the sentence was okay, we only saw Brenda’s husband at the end. Still a great episode, I really like most season 20 episodes, but I thought he should’ve gotten 7 consecutive sentences for the deaths he caused rather than concurrent sentences of 20 years.

I doubt they were happy. 20 years for 7 deaths? That usually happens for mobsters but they at least make a deal to testify against other murderers or their boss. I would have taken it to trial. A jury would have given him more time. 

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I doubt they were happy. 20 years for 7 deaths? That usually happens for mobsters but they at least make a deal to testify against other murderers or their boss. I would have taken it to trial. A jury would have given him more time. 

I agree, I wish we had seen all of the families reactions or had a scene of the perp doing his allocation in court with the families all there. I like the episode a lot but I think the DA’s should’ve said no deal and took him to trial where he might’ve been sentenced to consecutive terms where he would never get out. That guy was such a piece of garbage. 

[Spartan Girl]

“Boy on Fire”: Miss me with the Freudian excuses. School rivalries and insecurities are no excuse to burn someone alive then rape a witness so that she keeps her mouth shut. Was I supposed to feel sorry for that asshole just because he was scared he and his little brother would grow apart if he went to the nicer school? SCREW HIM.

And screw the principal for enabling them, no matter how good her intentions were in the beginning

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

“Boy on Fire”: Miss me with the Freudian excuses. School rivalries and insecurities are no excuse to burn someone alive then rape a witness so that she keeps her mouth shut. Was I supposed to feel sorry for that asshole just because he was scared he and his little brother would grow apart if he went to the nicer school? SCREW HIM.

And screw the principal for enabling them, no matter how good her intentions were in the beginning

Boy on Fire is a really good episode, and I completely agree with you about Abel and the other murderers/rapists. They were sociopathic scum, although Abel didn’t participate in the rape, he did in the murder and I felt nothing for him, he was just jealous that Moses was looking up to someone else and might go to a nicer school, fuck him and the others, I hope they got life sentences for their heinous crimes. And while the principal did help them in the end, I still think she should be prosecuted for lying to the grand jury and obstructing justice. I like the ending of that episode where Jack comments “is that enough extra credit to make up for an F” in regards to the principal’s actions, and it left everyone contemplating. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:11 PM, Spartan Girl said:

“Boy on Fire”: Miss me with the Freudian excuses. School rivalries and insecurities are no excuse to burn someone alive then rape a witness so that she keeps her mouth shut. Was I supposed to feel sorry for that asshole just because he was scared he and his little brother would grow apart if he went to the nicer school? SCREW HIM.

And screw the principal for enabling them, no matter how good her intentions were in the beginning

That was messed up!

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That was messed up!

Yes Boy on Fire was a messed up episode, the video of the kid being burned was horrific. I did feel bad for Moses, knowing his brother participated in the killing because he was jealous over him had to weigh on him. But Abel and the other murderers were just sociopathic scum, I hope they got put away for life, and the principal was seriously in denial over what happened.

[Xeliou66]

Innocence was on, with Cutter’s old law professor challenging him, this is an interesting episode, it’s interesting how the episode started with the arrest and then moved to the trial quickly, then the police had to reopen the case because of meddling from the Innocence Coalition, then it turned out they got it right all along and Cutter’s college degree got brought into question. Cutter’s law professor, Emily Ryan, was a backstabbing jerk, and it was very wrong how they were going so far to try to overturn convictions in order to advance their own careers, Ryan and her people totally forgot what they should’ve been in it for - truth and justice, instead of advancing their careers and boosting their ego. It was an interesting, different sort of case and very well done episode. I loved Cutter’s cross of the defendant’s mother, when he got her to say she was a good role model for her son and then baited her into making homophobic remarks, he walked her right into a trap, it was a great cross. 

[andromeda331]

On 11/18/2022 at 6:58 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Innocence was on, with Cutter’s old law professor challenging him, this is an interesting episode, it’s interesting how the episode started with the arrest and then moved to the trial quickly, then the police had to reopen the case because of meddling from the Innocence Coalition, then it turned out they got it right all along and Cutter’s college degree got brought into question. Cutter’s law professor, Emily Ryan, was a backstabbing jerk, and it was very wrong how they were going so far to try to overturn convictions in order to advance their own careers, Ryan and her people totally forgot what they should’ve been in it for - truth and justice, instead of advancing their careers and boosting their ego. It was an interesting, different sort of case and very well done episode. I loved Cutter’s cross of the defendant’s mother, when he got her to say she was a good role model for her son and then baited her into making homophobic remarks, he walked her right into a trap, it was a great cross. 

That was a really great episode.  I hate Emily and her people for worrying more about their careers than actually doing their jobs. I hate when lawyers don't do that. Your job literally has someone's life on the line. Doing a good job because of that should be what's important. Finding out the truth should be most important. I do love Cutter's cross too. He did a good job.  I love the mother for totally not seeing it coming and blowing it. 

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a really great episode.  I hate Emily and her people for worrying more about their careers than actually doing their jobs. I hate when lawyers don't do that. Your job literally has someone's life on the line. Doing a good job because of that should be what's important. Finding out the truth should be most important. I do love Cutter's cross too. He did a good job.  I love the mother for totally not seeing it coming and blowing it. 

Yeah Emily and her people forgot what they were in it for - they were so concerned about advancing their careers and making a name for themselves that they didn’t care whether people were guilty or innocent and were willing to tamper with witnesses to help their case.  
It was a unique episode with how it started with the arrest and trial, then they had to reopen the case and then the issue about Cutter’s degree came up. 
Cutter’s cross of the mom was great, he walked her right into a buzz saw and got her to show her true colors and what she had taught her son. 

[Xeliou66]

Just watched Fed - this is a really strong episode, intricate case with a lot of good detective and legal work. I liked all of the scenes between the police and DA’s. Intricate case with the murder being about covering up the corruption/embezzlement payoff to cover up the affair. Van Buren had a lot of great scenes, and it was interesting how conflict came up between the DA’s office and Van Buren - Anita very nearly went off on Jack, Mike and Connie in Jack’s office. I loved the final scene between Anita/Jack where Jack went to her office to clear the air after the case was closed. I also liked seeing Van Buren show off her authority when the protestors tried to stop the prisoner transfer. 
While I am not a fan of Rey, I did like that he returned for a cameo in this episode to give his character some closure, and I liked how Curtis and Van Buren reminisced about Lennie and Curtis even mentioned “Morris” who I assume is Morris Lamotte, the detective who had a recurring role for a few years. Great continuity.  
Very funny when Rodgers swatted Lupo’s hand away when he tried to take a sample of the crud from the victims head, and said “anytime you want to change jobs detective, you let me know”. Jack’s line of “I was like a corn cob in a pig sty, they all wanted a piece of me” after he was at the town hall and everyone started yelling at him was very funny as well. It’s a great episode.

[Xeliou66]

Immortal was just on - this is a very good episode, interesting plot about the drug company using the cells of the guy who died from cancer and continuing to use his descendants blood without compensating them. Cutter was a dick to ask Van Buren about her cancer when she was testifying - Van Buren was right to be angry at him and telling him he was no better than Hema Labs, which clearly upset Cutter given how critical he was of the company. Cutter was much more likable in season 20 than he was in the previous 2 seasons overall but this was not his best moment and another example of how I thought he would do anything to score points with the jury without being concerned about other factors. I loved Jack forcing Hema Labs to pay the family $10 million immediately or else he would charge them with assaulting the disabled guy by taking his blood, it was nice to see Jack take a part in the plea negotiation. It was a tough case in that I felt sympathy for the murderer because his family had been screwed by the drug company and he was understandably angry, but the victim was sympathetic as well, he needed the money for his family - it was a tragic family dispute - the drug company were the real villains. Good case. But Van Buren had every right to be pissed at Cutter.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Immortal was just on - this is a very good episode, interesting plot about the drug company using the cells of the guy who died from cancer and continuing to use his descendants blood without compensating them. Cutter was a dick to ask Van Buren about her cancer when she was testifying - Van Buren was right to be angry at him and telling him he was no better than Hema Labs, which clearly upset Cutter given how critical he was of the company. Cutter was much more likable in season 20 than he was in the previous 2 seasons overall but this was not his best moment and another example of how I thought he would do anything to score points with the jury without being concerned about other factors. I loved Jack forcing Hema Labs to pay the family $10 million immediately or else he would charge them with assaulting the disabled guy by taking his blood, it was nice to see Jack take a part in the plea negotiation. It was a tough case in that I felt sympathy for the murderer because his family had been screwed by the drug company and he was understandably angry, but the victim was sympathetic as well, he needed the money for his family - it was a tragic family dispute - the drug company were the real villains. Good case. But Van Buren had every right to be pissed at Cutter.

I felt so bad for the murderer and his family. Yeah they were screwed over for so long. Too bad he didn't target the drug company themselves. I'm glad Jack got them money. They deserved it and so much more. I had hoped Cutter wasn't going to ask Van Buren about her cancer. That he stopped and thought about it. But nope he goes ahead and does. I'm glad she was pissed at him. That was horrible.  

[Xeliou66]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I felt so bad for the murderer and his family. Yeah they were screwed over for so long. Too bad he didn't target the drug company themselves. I'm glad Jack got them money. They deserved it and so much more. I had hoped Cutter wasn't going to ask Van Buren about her cancer. That he stopped and thought about it. But nope he goes ahead and does. I'm glad she was pissed at him. That was horrible.  

This was one of the few cases where both victim and murderer were sympathetic to an extent, although the killer would’ve been more sympathetic if he had taken responsibility for his actions up front instead of trying to cover it all up. But yeah the family was exploited big time, it was interesting seeing Cutter and Rubirosa visit the family members living in the cabin, and they didn’t even have enough money to give Nathan a headstone. I loved Jack forcing the corporation to pay the family millions or else he would charge them - it was nice to see Jack play a role in plea negotiations. The investigation by Lupo and Bernard was good as well. But Cutter was a dick for bringing up Van Buren’s cancer, and I was glad Van Buren chewed him out, Cutter could be a thoughtless dick who would do anything to win. It’s a very good episode, I like most season 20 episodes and this one was very strong.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Xeliou66

[Xeliou66]

Doped was on today, this is really a great episode, I love the investigation by Lupo/Bernard and how they figured things out. I liked Rodgers coming to the station and giving them the lead about the propofol.  But the perp deserved 7 consecutive life sentences, not just 20 years, he killed 7 people including 3 children all because he was a greedy, selfish piece of shit. Yeah he didn’t purposefully kill anyone but he knew he would be putting people at risk by drugging the woman, he had to know how dangerous that was and he just didn’t care. He might’ve had a renunciation claim since he called the victim and tried to tell her to pull over, but I think the DAs should’ve gone to trial and pushed for consecutive life sentences - the ending was just too quick and rushed, the driver’s husband was okay with the plea, but I have to wonder if the parents of the children who died, or the guy who lost his wife, daughter and son in law in the other car that was hit, would be okay with the plea, it was said that the husband was the first one they talked to and the episode just ended after that. There was a lot in the episode but I would’ve liked more discussion about the sentence, because the perp should never be free again, and I don’t think the public would be okay with a plea deal either. I really couldn’t stand the perp, he was such a greedy piece of crap, I hope word got around in prison about what he had done and he had a miserable existence there, fuck that guy. I really like the episode though and how everyone got to the bottom of the case, all of the main characters had good stuff in it. 

[balmz]

you have to remember, just because he had the possibly of parole does not mean he will ever get it, the guy responsible for the jonestown massacre Marylin manson or something despite the massive death toll he caused, did have the possibilty of parole but he never once got it or was seriously considered. he even just left a note at one parole hearing because he knew he would never get it

 

 renunciation claim is interesting and without getting into politics, with all the stupidity that has been happening since the mothership first went off the air, maybe it might have worked and the da just wanted to avoid any possible way he might walk, they decided to split the difference, hopefully a jury would never buy the claim

[Xeliou66]

I just don’t believe that piece of shit perp from Doped deserved a chance at parole, and I hope the families of all of the people who died in the crash would line up against him at his parole hearing in 20 years if he was still alive then. That turd had to know how risky it was to spike someone with drugs and alcohol knowing they were about to drive, his claim that he just wanted her to have a minor crash so she would get fired was bullshit, he couldn’t determine what would happen once she got behind the wheel, he had to know that his actions could be extremely dangerous and they were. And yeah while you never know how a trial could go and he could make the renunciation claim to try to get a reduced sentence, I think he would’ve been convicted and wouldn’t have a chance at parole, but maybe they just figured they would spare everyone a trial and give him a deal. Still I hope the families of the people who died would line up against him at his future parole hearings. 
I do love the episode, especially the investigation by Lupo/Bernard. 

[andromeda331]

On 7/16/2023 at 1:13 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I just don’t believe that piece of shit perp from Doped deserved a chance at parole, and I hope the families of all of the people who died in the crash would line up against him at his parole hearing in 20 years if he was still alive then. That turd had to know how risky it was to spike someone with drugs and alcohol knowing they were about to drive, his claim that he just wanted her to have a minor crash so she would get fired was bullshit, he couldn’t determine what would happen once she got behind the wheel, he had to know that his actions could be extremely dangerous and they were. And yeah while you never know how a trial could go and he could make the renunciation claim to try to get a reduced sentence, I think he would’ve been convicted and wouldn’t have a chance at parole, but maybe they just figured they would spare everyone a trial and give him a deal. Still I hope the families of the people who died would line up against him at his future parole hearings. 
I do love the episode, especially the investigation by Lupo/Bernard. 

I agree. That sentence was too low and he didn't deserve even a chance at parole. He deserved a lot more. Also, there is always the possibility he will get parole. I never thought one of the Manson family members would get parole given the awfulness of the crime. But Lesley did. 

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. That sentence was too low and he didn't deserve even a chance at parole. He deserved a lot more. Also, there is always the possibility he will get parole. I never thought one of the Manson family members would get parole given the awfulness of the crime. But Lesley did. 

Yeah I thought he deserved 7 consecutive sentences for each of the deaths he caused. He was really a sorry, selfish piece of shit, when he said he just wanted her to get into a minor crash so she would be fired I was thinking there was absolutely no way he could know what would happen once she got behind the wheel, he had to know his actions were very dangerous, and he just didn’t care.    
It is a really good episode, I liked how Lupo/Bernard got to the bottom of it, and I liked Jack’s scenes as well with him confronting the company head, and Cutter/Rubirosa figuring out that the perp was a whistleblower as well and not a company shill. 

[Xeliou66]

Rubber Room was just on - terrific episode and great finale for the show’s first run. A bit different from the normal episode, as it was a race against time to prevent a horrible tragedy, but it worked perfectly. I really liked Lupo and Bernard’s investigation into who the guy was, and it was awesome seeing Skoda help out and build a profile of the perp. Of course the memorable confrontation between Jack and the bureaucrat was terrific, always great when Jack gets to show off his passion. Really strong and intense episode from start to finish.  
And seeing everyone get together at the end to support Van Buren was an awesome ending, Anita was a great character and this was a great sendoff for her, I know the actress was planning to leave the show after the season even if it hadn’t been canceled, so it was a great way to end Van Buren’s story and the original run of L&O. 

[andromeda331]

On 7/27/2023 at 6:04 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Rubber Room was just on - terrific episode and great finale for the show’s first run. A bit different from the normal episode, as it was a race against time to prevent a horrible tragedy, but it worked perfectly. I really liked Lupo and Bernard’s investigation into who the guy was, and it was awesome seeing Skoda help out and build a profile of the perp. Of course the memorable confrontation between Jack and the bureaucrat was terrific, always great when Jack gets to show off his passion. Really strong and intense episode from start to finish.  
And seeing everyone get together at the end to support Van Buren was an awesome ending, Anita was a great character and this was a great sendoff for her, I know the actress was planning to leave the show after the season even if it hadn’t been canceled, so it was a great way to end Van Buren’s story and the original run of L&O. 

Yeah, it was a great finale. Great story, great investigation, and Van Buren was in remission.