S03.E09: Meet Your Maker

[Trini]

Ryan, Sophie and Luke attempt to track down the OG Poison Ivy when all signs point to Pamela Isley's (guest star Bridget Regan) reappearance in Gotham. At the same time, Mary feels drawn by a powerful force and Alice suddenly feels very protective of her stepsister. Meanwhile, Jada hasn't given up on rehabilitating Marquis and seeks the help of an old friend. Guest starring David Ramsey.

Michael Blundell directed the episode written by Caroline Dries and Maya Houston.

Airdate 1/19/2022

[Primal Slayer]

It was an ok episode, very boring middle, and ok end. 

They introducing a lot of relationships and I could care less about any of them. Ivy/Renee? Meh. They are trying to make them this epic love but....I'm not feeling it. I was kind of wanting Ivy to just vine Renee and send her away and move on. Ivys entire storyline has been surrounded by Montoya since we've been physically introduced to her and I'm already tired of the drama. 

Ryan/Sophie? Hated it since they introduced Ryan. The writers dont know what to do with Sophie so they just continue with their original plan they had with Katae. Sophie is really Batwomans biggest fan, she'll have dated both of them. 

Ryan has been very....whats the word? She acts as if she is better than some of the people around her and its very annoying. Girl you are not flawless so why are you constantly judging everyone else while you make the SAME.EXACT.MISTAKES? 

While I doubt it'll work, the fact that the writers really brought in the whole "Maybe if Marquis is shocked by Jokers shocker again it'll reinstall his empathy!" huh? That's what you bring us? What is so special about Jokers shocker? Did he use some alien tech so it shocks people differently? And why would it magically reset Marquis's brain when he's probably always been psycho. 

Alice/Mary remain a dynamic duo.

Luke monologuing to his dead father who created a suit for a child and acting like the voice in his suit was his fathers essence that was still alive or wahtever...dude just put on the suit or dont. 

I am much more interested in Ivy returning and her taking in how much has changed in 10 years in Gotham. Where are all of her former bad guys? How she feel about that? 

[Cress]

I was expecting that Poison Ivy would suck the life essence out of Mary, maybe killing her like Alice feared. But it seems that Ivy's strength is restored while Mary seems okay for now.  Don't know if it will stay that way.

[Trini]

What are they even doing with Renee? I guess the point of her was just to free Poison Ivy? How is she disappointed that the same woman she put in stasis is the same woman who came out (only angrier now)? And then after helping Pam regain her strength, I'm sure she'll be expecting the Bat Team to trust and work with her again next week.

I'm guessing they downplayed Diggle/Ramsey's appearance so it wouldn't over shadow Poison Ivy? Because he had a whole subplot with Jada. I don't know why they'd keep a fan favorite returning a secret. So - flirty vibes between him and Jada, suggesting a past relationship. I don't think he's Ryan's father, but the possibility is out there.

Okay, so Jada just breaks into Renee's office and takes the Joy Buzzer. That was easy!™  And yeah, doing the exact same thing to reverse a personality change is a sitcom trope; I hope that doesn't actually work.

Well, I guess DC said 'no Lanterns in the Arrow-verse'. I assume that scene with Diggle and Luke was to tie up that story (that was never going anywhere).

Still not buying Mary and Alice's bonding. And that should actually be a red flag since Alice has killed or tried to kill everyone she's been attached to. I am interested in how the Mary and Poison Ivy go forward from here, because obviously Mary's not as radical or homicidal as Poison Ivy.

Aw, I really like our Bat Team! Some of the banter was hilarious in this one. Loved seeing them work together, and talking things out. I've always wanted to see more of Luke out of the cave, so at least I got some of that here. +20 points for shirtless Luke!

Wow - already at the (shut up) kiss stage with Ryan and Sophie. Poor Luke is going to be the third wheel in the cave.

Felt sorry for that obvious redshirt the team met in the woods; I was like - just leave him, Ryan! He's totally dead!

[BeautifulFlower]

It wasn't because of Alice, but Poison Mary eventually killed someone. It just got interesting. If that boy saw Mary's face, he could definitely identify her to the police. Knowing this show, that might not happen. So, if that man is alive, he could identify Mary as well. No matter what, Mary is going to face some consequence. We know she didn't mean to. We know she is infected. However, Mary still said she didn't want to turn and hurt people. She was presented an opportunity to be cured, but destroyed it. Mary will definitely go through it.

Have I mentioned I'm tired of the writers forcing this sister dynamic between Mary and Alice? "Why do we work Alice? You killed my mom.." Mary should've stopped talking RIGHT there. Her mother's death is enough for them NOT to have a sisterly dynamic. Again, the writers are pretty much having Mary say "I don't care you killed my mom." They work because they found the sister they always wanted? 

I did get annoyed with Ryan bringing up Sophie and Renee. With that said, that whole convo with Sophie confused me. Since the beginning of this season. Sophie and Ryan have gotten along. Sophie was the first person Ryan told about Jada possibly still being alive. Other than talking with Mary and Luke about her first meeting with Jada, they've gotten along fine. They flirted with each other for pete's sake. So where is Sphie coming from with "sometimes it's like you hate me, sometimes you like me" Girl, what?

This episode and last episode presented a problem for me. Why do they keep presenting it as bad that Ryan and Luke were dealing with their own stuff to notice Mary's infection? Were they supposed to stop what they're doing and pay attention to Mary? Maybe Luke should have. But Ryan? She was literally dealing with long lost family. Of course, that would preoccupy her a LOT.

Renee, Renee, Renee. I knew this would happen. I knew she would think Ivy could still change. Is she serious? Why did she think Ivy would be different after coming out? Ivy cares about the environment. Her powers give her the opportunity to do what she probably always wanted to do deep down in her soul: kill or harm people who harm the environment. Anyway, I hope Renee gets caught and sent to prison. And why did she leave Poison Mary just lying there in the woods?

Diggle and Jada clearly have a past? I will not lie. I thought they were about to reveal Diggle is Ryan's father. Anyway, I presumed they had something when Diggle was separated from Lyla? He did say "I got back with my wife" right? Moving on, shocking Marquis again with the buzzer could cure him? No. I do not see that working. It might damage his brain some more.

[yellowfred]

4 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

This episode and last episode presented a problem for me. Why do they keep presenting it as bad that Ryan and Luke were dealing with their own stuff to notice Mary's infection? Were they supposed to stop what they're doing and pay attention to Mary? Maybe Luke should have. But Ryan? She was literally dealing with long lost family. Of course, that would preoccupy her a LOT.

This is one of those things where I'm kind of okay with Ryan blaming herself, because sometimes people are like that, but I really need other people to stop acting like it's her fault.  It was only, like, three in-universe days between when Mary woke up in the park and when she told them that she was Poison Ivy.

I actually liked that Sophie kissed Ryan, but I'd like it more if she gave Ryan her therapist's number, because this is the second time this season it's come up that Ryan does not seem to have a healthy fear of death.  I loved that, afterwards, she just went off into the woods by herself to find her car, because I guess that was an option the whole time?

[Trini]

6 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

It wasn't because of Alice, but Poison Mary eventually killed someone. It just got interesting. If that boy saw Mary's face, he could definitely identify her to the police. Knowing this show, that might not happen. So, if that man is alive, he could identify Mary as well. No matter what, Mary is going to face some consequence. We know she didn't mean to. We know she is infected. However, Mary still said she didn't want to turn and hurt people. She was presented an opportunity to be cured, but destroyed it. Mary will definitely go through it.

I'll have to re-watch, but I'm not convinced that it was Mary who killed that guy. I think it could have been Poison Ivy 'protecting' her. Mainly because I'm sure the writers don't want her to do anything very bad - even in Poison Mary mode; and there was hardly any follow-up to that, and murdering someone is A Big Deal that I don't think they would gloss over, especially with a main character like Mary. Also I would hate for that to be another thing they use for "sisterly bonding."

[thuganomics85]

For goodness sakes, Renee!  I mean, hey, I totally, 100% get the appeal of all things Bridget Regan, but how can you be that surprised that Poison Ivy is going to keep on Poison Ivying her way through things?  It's not like Pamela was having second thoughts before she was captured: she has completely committed to her ecoterrorist ways and I doubt being imprisoned for ten years was going to ever change anything.  "Love" really does makes characters do idiotic things a lot (especially in the Arrowverse....)

Even Poison Mary was briefly questioning why is she is so full-tilt into Team Alice now, but has now doubled down to the point that she is claiming it's because both of them are "the sisters that they never had."  I get that some of this is suppose to be her being affected by Pamela's powers, but none of it makes sense to me.  As much as I enjoy watching Nicole Kang and Rachel Skarsten play off one another, this whole idea feels half-baked.

I did like that they actually had Pamela/Poison Ivy be OP enough that the win was Team Batwoman just getting out of there in one piece.  It makes sense that one of the classic Batman villains would take a lot to finally bring down.

After a bunch of squabbling and silent treatment, Ryan and Sophie are already at the kissing stage of their relationship.  They sure move fast on this show!

Diggle!  Always great to see him and David Ramsey (sporting some impressive facial hair.)  Interesting that he not only worked with Joan in the past, but it certainly sounds like they had a thing.  While I'm glad things are still working for him and Lyla, Ramsey and Robin Givens did have some good chemistry on screen.  But it looks like they found Joker's buzzer and they're now hoping shocking Marquis again will bring him back.  Which probably means it will actually make him even more insane....

[TiffanyNichelle]

I hope Jada tries that "jolt him again with the buzzer!" plan just so it could not work and everyone could call them out on how dumb of an idea that was. There's letting some things go because it's comic book logic and then there's things that make no sense.

The most I enjoyed the Ryan/Sophie dynamic was when they were squabbling and being petty with each other. Now that they are going to be a thing for sure, it's not going to work for me. Yeah, Sophie was Kate's ex but she was also kind of into Batwoman before she found out that Kate wa also Batwoman and now it seems like she started getting really interested in Ryan after she learned that she was the new Batwoman, Sophie, maybe you just got a latex  and mask thing? It's cool. We all got something.

A tenuous bond between Poison Mary and Alice works but this whole "we're our true sisters" thing is just crap and it's just one more way to justify keeping Alice around.

Renee's actions towards Pamela give me such a headache. I don't know what her motivations are anymore.

[tennisgurl]

Really, is Renee so surprised that her super powered ecoterrorist girlfriend has gone right back to being an ecoterrorist? Even Pamela was like "what exactly were you expecting?" when Renee asked her to pretty please stop killing people. She needs to either deal with Pam, who is clearly not going to stop killing, or just commit to being on the run with a supervillain, I honestly have no idea what the show is doing with her. Why do live action Batman shows have so much trouble writing for Renee? Her investigative abilities and being one of Gotham's few honest cops always take a backseat to deeply questionable dating choices that lead to her being a pretty shit detective. 

I am getting pretty bored with Poison Mary, which is too bad because I liked her a lot at first, at least as a concept. Its really taken over the show, distracting from what was at first a cool idea of having multiple new versions of classic Batman villains, I wish this had only lasted two or three episodes before it was resolved. And now Mary has probably killed a guy, and in front of his son. It was an accident and she's infected, but that kid would still have a dad if Mary had taken the cure when she had the chance. Is this going to be that poor kids super hero or super villain origin story? 

The banter between the Bat Team was pretty fun, I liked when Ryan and Sophie were trying to make Luke feel better by talking about all of their recent screw ups. I do think that Sophie should check back in on Ryan again about that whole "being burned alive in my car sounded nice" comment, maybe its time to find her a decent psychologist? Probably outside of Gotham though, they aren't exactly known for their success when it comes to the treatment of mental health. I also guess they are going there with Ryan/Sophie, and I am still really not a fan, sorry. I just don't see romantic chemistry between them and I feel like having Sophie with the new Batwoman really does make it feel like Sophie only exists to be "Batwoman's love interest" no matter who is actually in the costume. 

Then Diggle appears, which really made me do a double take, I didn't hear a thing about him showing up. It sounds like the two of them had a bit of a thing at some point, maybe when he and Lyla were broken up, glad to hear that they are still going strong. If Jada really did care about Ryan so much, even if she had to give her up to protect her, why didn't she send her to a nice adoption agency? If Jada is super rich and powerful, couldn't she have made sure Ryan ended up with a new family instead of being dumped into the system, even without anyone knowing who she was? Always nice to see Diggle, guys been carrying that box around for like three years now. 

A jolt from the Joker buzzer that made Marquis a psychopath can make him a non psychopath again because...comic books. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Lantern7]

Fun episode given the circumstances. I don't think bringing Diggle into the mix is ever a bad idea.

Jada: I've had people do the studies, and they all agree: if they use Joker's joy-buzzer on Marquis, he will return to the sweet boy I loved so much and not have to sleep with a gun under my pillow.

Diggle: Wow. Look, we've know each other for years . . . and given how I brought up Lyla, I guess we had a thing. But that is a very dumb idea.

Jada: The gun or the buzzer?

Diggle: Both!! But especially the buzzer. Doesn't it sound weird when you say it out loud?

Jada: Wait . .  I'm getting lectured by John Diggle? THE John Diggle?!? Right hand man of the Green Arrow?

Diggle: What does that ha-

Jada: I heard you dug up a woman who had been dead for a year and resurrected her with magic water. And restoring my boy with a deadly toy is a worse idea?

Diggle: (facepalming) Okay, bringing back Sara wasn't MY idea . . .

I'm still dreading the whole "Marquis as Joker" thing. Why can't he be his own thing?

Only thing missing from Ivy/Pam meeting Mary was Alice watching with binoculars, amazed that she's feeling hotter watching them. As a character, Mary is painted into a corner. If she is "reset to factory settings," she's going to realize that she had been palling around with the woman that killed her mother. And even if Alice is slowly crawling towards being more grey, she's still going to feel like shit. On the bright side, Rachel and Nicole work great together . . . but now I'm thinking they shouldn't have to shoulder their loads together. Spread the love.

Did those last few sentences make sense?

I liked Team Bat trapped in a shed, even if they were scared out of their minds. It's one thing to hear about killer vines . . . but to actually encounter them?

[akg]

On 1/19/2022 at 11:12 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Alice/Mary remain a dynamic duo.

I did not like the conclusion they drew after their talk but I was very glad Alice and Mary at least acknowledged the weirdness of them hanging out.

On 1/21/2022 at 2:31 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I did like that they actually had Pamela/Poison Ivy be OP enough that the win was Team Batwoman just getting out of there in one piece.  It makes sense that one of the classic Batman villains would take a lot to finally bring down.

Agreed. I also loved Luke's comment about the fates of Black people going into forests in the movies.

On 1/21/2022 at 2:31 AM, thuganomics85 said:

After a bunch of squabbling and silent treatment, Ryan and Sophie are already at the kissing stage of their relationship

I was really hoping Sophie was serious when she claimed the kiss was just to distract Ryan. Unfortunately, the writers seemed pretty committed to this pairing.

On 1/21/2022 at 2:31 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Always great to see him and David Ramsey (sporting some impressive facial hair.)  Interesting that he not only worked with Joan in the past, but it certainly sounds like they had a thing.  While I'm glad things are still working for him and Lyla, Ramsey and Robin Givens did have some good chemistry on screen

More Diggle is always a good thing, for me, and I really enjoyed his scenes with Joan in this episode. Whatever they had in the past, they have a good, fun friend chemistry now.

On 1/21/2022 at 4:44 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am getting pretty bored with Poison Mary

Me too. I miss the original version and I'm dreading the consequences of all of this for her. They've dragged this storyline out too far.