Saving Hope - General Discussion

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Was the ghost in Alex's nightmare the nurse that was obsessed with Charlie?

I'm fairly certain it was, yeah.

I'm glad Charlie got through to Blake by the end of the episode. It goes to show how Charlie can get through to these ghosts and he really has a gift for it. He controlled the situation as best as he could, and it worked out...this time, at least. I'm surprised Blake didn't find a way out of the hospital, much like Travis Milne's character last season. 

Not enough Zach, and I miss Dawn and Dana. 

So, Sydney got a job offer in London and Maggie is planning on moving with her. I have a couple of thoughts about this. First off, it does feel like Maggie's had to do a lot of compromising for Sydney while Sydney's gone off to live her life, with or without her. It does feel a bit unfair to me, but at the same time, I totally understand Sydney wanting to focus on her career and take the rare job offer. I just wonder what would have happened if Maggie got a job offer too somewhere else, if Sydney would have compromised then.

Second off, I do hope that Maggie goes through with it. With there only being six or seven episodes left, they could just have Sydney/Maggie be packing and preparing until the finale, and then they can move.

As for Shahir, I get that he wants a child but is overthinking everything. It's not an easy decision to make and even if he decided to have a child, I can imagine the doubts setting in now. Man, I love Jonathan, though. It makes me wish we got Jonathan last season too. 

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

And while I'm not an expert on adoptions, particularly in Canada, would S/J be considered appropriate parents? They're not married, right? If memory serves, they haven't even been together that long... Jonathan was only introduced this year, and I think he might have been mentioned towards the end of last season, but they've been together maybe two years tops?

If I remember correctly, Jonathan's name was mentioned as early as the season 4 premiere? At the very least, I do remember his name being mentioned many times in season 4. So it's possible that Jonathan and Shahir have been together as long as Luke's been born.

I decided to look up adoption laws in Canada. According to the official Canadian adoption site, there are certain requirements, but as long as Jonathan/Shahir can prove to the adoption case worker that they are capable of taking care of a child in a loving home, then there shouldn't be as many issues. It can takes months for the adoption process to go through, and it's definitely not easy, especially for a non-married couple, which is why I assume Shahir or Jonathan will propose in the next few episodes. Not that they can't adopt while unmarried, but it's easier under the law to get married and adopt. 

Also, there was another episode Thursday night that I just ended up watching.

And....I totally thought that they rushed Jonathan and Shahir's adoption process, until it was discovered that they're caring for a fake baby. That ending does not bode well for them. Shahir really is not communicating well enough and Jonathan has a right to be upset that he keeps saying that he doesn't want a child. I hope they can work it out, though. 

Maggie/Sydney drama. They can't let those two be happily in love, can they? I do appreciate that there was a sincere struggle with Maggie going with Sydney vs sticking around for a job. She was happy with Sydney but she didn't have a job, and then she had a job but didn't have Sydney anymore, so she wasn't happy. So I did smile at the ending with them, even if I got sad at the Maggie/Zach goodbye. I am sad that Maggie's gone, though. I went from not really liking her in season 1 to really loving her.

The cases were well done. I was touched by the magician's story, and Charlie pulled double duty with the ghosts this week.

Glad to hear that Alex and Charlie are having a girl. 

[Lady Calypso]

Man, I hate this new psychiatrist guy. Barging into Charlie's life, trying to psychoanalyze him? It doesn't help that I'm convinced that he's a ghost trying to help Charlie. Actually, I'm also convinced that he's Charlie's biological father. Not even sure why I think that. I could be 100% off base and this guy could just be the worst psychiatrist ever. I don't even remember when Charlie was put into foster care. I just figure that they might actually touch on Charlie's childhood for the last three episodes, maybe deal with why him, of all people, got this gift. Also, why he saw himself at the end of the episode. 

I liked the Sekara/Shahir police brutality case. I think that the topic is handled a lot in TV and not many shows get it right. But honestly, this may have been the most tactful way a TV show has dealt with a pressing issue in today's society. It shined a light on the issue, giving a voice to what cops might deal with, but ultimately keeping the focus on the true victim and how terrifying it is for a person of colour. Even Shahir made sure to express that his old friend's attitude didn't help matters, but he was still the victim of a hate crime. Really, it's a shame that not many people will know about this episode, because they handled it without going over the top or preachy. They really got the message down.

So, in an unfortunate case of misunderstandings, Dawn/Zach get to work out some more kinks in their relationship, particularly about the subject of marriage. I laughed hard at Dawn's horror of possibly being proposed to, because I totally get it. Just like I get Zach being confused and peeved that Dawn might not consider marriage in their future. It was nice to work that part out, but not forcing a proposal at the end. I assume a proposal is coming, but not yet. 

Dawn's case was interesting, with the man's artificial heart. I also liked Alex's case with the problem teenager. 

[statsgirl]

17 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Man, I hate this new psychiatrist guy. Barging into Charlie's life, trying to psychoanalyze him? It doesn't help that I'm convinced that he's a ghost trying to help Charlie.

Wow, that makes a lot of sense.  It explains why he's so intrusive, and especially why didn't want to go into the room and check out the kid with the tumor.

[TVForever]

I'm also convinced that the weird new staff psychiatrist is actually a ghost. We didn't see anyone else acknowledge his existence, let alone talk to him. I was really sure when he opted not to come in and interview the teenager himself. Because if you're a psychiatrist who's still too skittish to interview a patient, then you're probably not quite ready to be back at work in that capacity.

[dargosmydaddy]

OK, just got caught up on the past two episodes...

I'm glad Maggie left with Sydney, but the endless drama leading up to that was tiresome. Their inability to make up their minds until the very end left me with a sour taste in terms of their relationship lasting. Same thing with the ongoing Shahir adoption story... when he has doubts about adopting in EVERY. SINGLE. EPISODE. it makes me feel like he probably shouldn't (or should at least hold off), despite the fact that I think he and Jonathan would make good parents. His "dad outfit" was hilarious, though.

Something's definitely up with the new psychiatrist, though you'd think Charlie, guru of all things ghost and chief of surgery might realize this? Um, wouldn't he have met the guy when he was hired, or at least been aware he was coming, known his name, etc.? So unless the ghost has adopted an actual doctor's alias... I don't know. I'm intrigued by the idea that he could be Charlie's father, but you would also think Charlie would know what his dad looks like (even if just from photographs) and the doctor mentioned "them" when talking about never seeing his kids, and isn't Charlie an only child? 

I did notice a photo of a bearded man on Charlie's desk when he was talking to Maggie in his office. We hadn't met the psychiatrist yet (next episode) and it was kind of out of focus, though again, if Charlie has a picture of his father on his desk, you'd think he'd recognize him-- or at least notice an eerie resemblance-- when meeting the new doctor.

I was also hung up on the woman (the anesthesiologist? a nurse?) in the operating room during the magician's surgery who said, "Me four" after the magician ghost said, "Me three." She quickly covers herself, but did she see/ hear him??? I was totally expecting Charlie to talk to her privately later, but she never showed up again. Which is good, because the last female-hospital-employee-who-sees-ghosts was an awful storyline, but it just seemed really bizarre. It might be interesting if it was meant to be another sign that Charlie is imagining things (maybe he just thought she said, "Me four," says "What?" to her, and it turned out she just said whatever she said about the procedure), but the fact that she immediately corrected herself was just strange.

Didn't Zach's ex move with the kids to Vancouver at the end of last season? Did I miss something about them immediately moving back, or do they just make a reeeeeally long commute every Thursday? And what "ring" did Dawn give Zach at the end of the episode? (I couldn't see inside the box... A doughnut?)

I did enjoy the guinea pig callback. RIP Vallenween.

I didn't get why Alex couldn't have had Charlie paged to pick up Luke during his daycare meltdown. He wasn't doing anything official at the time (he was chatting with a ghost, but she wouldn't know that). I'm not sure if we're meant to overlook that, or if it's supposed to be a sign that she doesn't want to be dependent on Charlie.

I think it's time to send out an APB on Dana. I miss her...

Edited July 5, 2017 by dargosmydaddy

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I was also hung up on the woman (the anesthesiologist? a nurse?) in the operating room during the magician's surgery who said, "Me four" after the magician ghost said, "Me three." She quickly covers herself, but did she see/ hear him??? I was totally expecting Charlie to talk to her privately later, but she never showed up again. Which is good, because the last female-hospital-employee-who-sees-ghosts was an awful storyline, but it just seemed really bizarre. It might be interesting if it was meant to be another sign that Charlie is imagining things (maybe he just thought she said, "Me four," says "What?" to her, and it turned out she just said whatever she said about the procedure), but the fact that she immediately corrected herself was just strange.

I noticed that too, and thought it was weird that it was never referred in the episode again. Maybe these are just subtle hints of something bigger coming for the last stretch of episodes. I doubt they would have inserted that and not have a reason. The show's been focusing on Charlie's injured arm a little too much to not go by unnoticed for me. I mean, if it's just continuity with his arm still in its healing stages, then great. But since this is still a TV show, I expect there to be some issue with the arm, probably sending Charlie back into one final comatose state. Maybe an infection of some sort. 

8 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Something's definitely up with the new psychiatrist, though you'd think Charlie, guru of all things ghost and chief of surgery might realize this? Um, wouldn't he have met the guy when he was hired, or at least been aware he was coming, known his name, etc.? So unless the ghost has adopted an actual doctor's alias... I don't know. I'm intrigued by the idea that he could be Charlie's father, but you would also think Charlie would know what his dad looks like (even if just from photographs) and the doctor mentioned "them" when talking about never seeing his kids, and isn't Charlie an only child? 

I'm pretty positive that it's a ghost, but the Charlie's biological father is just a theory. He did lose them a long time ago, enough time where he might not recognize him right away. I just can't think of another reason why this upcoming twist would be so important for him. Like I said, just a theory. Maybe Charlie has secret siblings out there. Hey, maybe Jonathan's his other secret sibling! 

I kid, I kid. I just know that there's something off about new guy who's brought in literally four episodes before the series ends. 

[dargosmydaddy]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm pretty positive that it's a ghost, but the Charlie's biological father is just a theory. He did lose them a long time ago, enough time where he might not recognize him right away. I just can't think of another reason why this upcoming twist would be so important for him. Like I said, just a theory.

Even if it's not his father, you'd think he might realize the possibility that he's a ghost. Even if he had no part in helping to hire the guy and received no notification that there was a new psychiatrist (which again, in his position, I think he would at least know about new staff, even if they're not surgical), you'd think he'd look into it after the guy acted so squirrely around Hunter. Between this and not following up on the anesthesiologist's comment, Charlie's really slipping!

[Lady Calypso]

So, Missy Peregrym makes an appearance for the last season as a holistic yoga instructor. Cool! They have brought on several Rookie Blue alumni now. But geez, her character was such a pain in the ass. I also don't think she played it convincingly enough. I just didn't really buy it. Her character was annoying, and as much as I was trying to understand her fear with being put under, I just found it frustrating. 

I also didn't buy the case with Cassie, for some reason. I didn't really enjoy it.

I did enjoy Dana's case with the kids and them shooting that profile video for Shahir. It's nice that Jonathan's still sticking around and Shahir's trying to keep moving forward with the adoption, but I don't think this is going to solve their problems. They need to be talking it out first.

Also love that Michael Shanks directed the episode, AND it was a pivotal episode for Charlie. So, I get that they were trying to set up this whole ghost thing becoming a serious problem for a while now, but I don't know if they did as good of a job as they could have. However, them setting up that he was having difficulty telling who was a ghost and who wasn't is something that will definitely lead into his final arc. It was nice to get some of the supernatural elements into this episode, too. They actually gave Michael Shanks some meaty material, and that ending was so, so good. Possibly the best scene of the entire series. I knew the psychiatrist was actually a ghost! 

But yeah, it looks like he's going to need some help moving forward and figuring out the ghost situation, since it's now directly affecting his work and his health.

[dargosmydaddy]

On 7/7/2017 at 10:51 AM, Lady Calypso said:

But yeah, it looks like he's going to need some help moving forward and figuring out the ghost situation, since it's now directly affecting his work and his health.

So his solution was quit, but hang around the hospital anyway? Sigh. This show... Did no one think to suggest that he might want to consider some (live) psychiatric help? I'm not even entirely sure what set him off to begin with... yes, the accident triggered memories of his own parents' death, but he was confused about ghost psychiatrist and experiencing increasingly weird/ violent ghosts before that. Does he really think quitting is going to magically cure all that? And Alex is acting like this is OK, and the perfect time to get married?

I will never complain about more Peter Mooney on my screen, but I really didn't think they needed to bring Bishop back. I am glad that they didn't leave the door open for a rekindling of his relationship with Cassie, but I wish they had brought him back as someone for Charlie to talk to... Weren't they supposed to be close friends? And yet clearly they hadn't shared any major life news in the past year, and got two seconds of screen time together.

Actually I think one of my issues with Charlie is that he never seems to have any friendships other than Alex. He's kind of friends with Zach, but it seems like they're friends out of respect/ convenience/ being pushed together by Dawn and Alex, not that they really enjoy each other's company/ confide in one another. They both come across as kind of curmudgeonly at times, but Zach had great friendships with Joel and Maggie. Charlie, on the other hand... I liked his relationship with Gavin, but even that wasn't exactly a friendship. I feel like they brought in the Bishop character to fill the friend role, but then never really developed it. (Seriously, the only time I really bought the Jeremy/ Charlie friendship was Jeremy's scene with Alex during Charlie's surgery last year. That scene had genuine emotion, but Charlie wasn't even in it...)

I'm kind of glad Shahir's quest to get a baby continues to be fraught with difficulties, because that seems realistic (even if this past one with the NICU kidnapping was a bit over-the-top), but can we stop having Jonathan leaving in a huff every episode? Because I have a feeling they're going to end up with a baby before this is over, yet at this point I feel like they're not in the right emotional state to have one!

At least Dawn, Zach, and his sons got a nice moment.

The ION website's summary for the finale in two weeks gave MAJOR spoilers that have me shaking my head...

[statsgirl]

If the ION spoilers are right,

Spoiler

I'm going to regret investing five seasons in this show.  It's as bad as St. Elsewhere.

[Whimsy]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If the ION spoilers are right,

  Hide contents

I'm going to regret investing five seasons in this show.  It's as bad as St. Elsewhere.

Ugh.  I really liked this show for the first two seasons.  Now I'm just drudging along until it's over to see how it ends. 

[statsgirl]

Five years of my life I gave to this stupid show just so that Erica Durrance could get her Emmy reel moment.  Blech.

Just because they can write heart-wrenching moments doesn't mean they should.

Edited August 9, 2017 by statsgirl
edited to put in spoiler bars because I didn't realize it hadn't been shown in the US yet

[dargosmydaddy]

Was it as bad as the synopsis sounded? I'm upset that I'm not going to be around on Tuesday and ION is only showing it once (even though they showed every other episode as it runs twice or more in a weeks' span).

[statsgirl]

Spoiler

 

Even worse than the ION spoilers.  It opens with their wedding, and ending with the wake as Alex's voiceover recites her vows to him about their long life together.

There were two cute parts of it:  Just before Charlie dies he hallucinates an ortho doctor checking his knee and asking him for advice on what to give for her best woman speech at her brother Luke's wedding and tells Charlie she was named Charlotte after her father; and the very end when Charlie is on a beach and Alex goes to him after she's died and they're together for eternity.

Other than that, I've got nothin'.  Apparently Alex had five years with Charlie and the next fifty alone?  Is that supposed to make me happy?

 

Trivia:  Adult Luke was played by Paul Popowich who played opposite Erica Durance in the movie I Me Wed.  It was nice to see him again.

Edited August 9, 2017 by statsgirl

[babs1226]

I am going to miss this show.  I didn't know it was ending, so the last episode was quite a shock!  I don't know why they couldn't just let Charlie, Alex & Luke just ride off into the sunset after finally getting married.  Since they decided not to give them a happy ending, I thought they did a nice job.  Charlie's heart going to the teacher was a nice touch.  Charlie seeing his grown kids was neat.  I doubt that Alex would have been without a partner for all those years, but Charlie was her true love.  <sigh>

[lynny]

I was annoyed at Alex's realization at the end that they weren't cursed but blessed and that the last 5 years were a gift and she was happy about it. Just because they spent the majority of that 5 years apart. Wouldn't it make her sadder to realize how much of the gift they'd wasted?

[Lady Calypso]

On 8/3/2017 at 10:48 PM, statsgirl said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Five years of my life I gave to this stupid show just so that Erica Durrance could get her Emmy reel moment.  Blech.

Just because they can write heart-wrenching moments doesn't mean they should.

 

By the way, statsgirl, since this is a Canadian show and has aired in Canada, there's no need for spoiler tags!

[statsgirl]

Thanks, @Lady Calypso.  I thought that since it was airing on ION today, I should put it in spoiler bars but I've taken it out now. (For some reason, I couldn't get rid the spoiler bar.)

[TVForever]

Where did Cassie go?

Why did Billy "freeze up" in the ER?

[DonnaJo]

No no no no.....what a terrible ending! Hate when a main character dies at the end of a series. It ruins the reruns for me.

So, Charlotte is supposed to be 50 years old in that scene with Charlie? And Luke is...what....52 or 53? No way.

Really unhappy with the ending of this series, which I truly enjoyed.

[dargosmydaddy]

11 hours ago, TVForever said:

Where did Cassie go?

Why did Billy "freeze up" in the ER?

I think you missed an episode or two... Cassie got a job in NY with her heart surgeon mentor (who I don't think was ever mentioned before, but that's the way it goes) and before she left Billy had to save her from her stalker, the wrestler dude, by accidentally stabbing him (he lived), which shook him (Billy) up.

 

I'm still pissed that ION isn't doing it's multiple reruns and I didn't get to see the finale.

[TVForever]

Yikes! Thanks, dargos!! This show isn't OnDemand, is it? I miss the multiple airings that ION used to do, too. I guess I'll never get to see those episodes now.

[dargosmydaddy]

22 minutes ago, TVForever said:

This show isn't OnDemand, is it?

Sadly no, at least not on Verizon. ION is starting over again from season one with two episodes airing every Tuesday, so maybe eventually they'll get back to season five.

[Mystery]

i'm disappointed that they won't rerun the finale; my DVR cut off after Alex said that Charlie had been with her every minute. Did anything happen after that?

I agree that neither of the "kids" looked like it had been 50 years. But whatever. I'm disappointed that Charlie died, but for me it's not as bad as the ending of How I Met Your Mother (I've never watched an episode of that show again, after that finale). 

[Whimsy]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 6:51 PM, babs1226 said:

 Charlie's heart going to the teacher was a nice touch.  Charlie seeing his grown kids was neat.  I doubt that Alex would have been without a partner for all those years, but Charlie was her true love.  <sigh>

I kind of laughed at this scene only because of the way they were parsing out the organs.  Especially when it go to the teacher.  (paraphrase) "The teacher gets the heart because he's a good person".  THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WORKS! 

But, yeah, I agree- Alex wouldn't have been alone that whole time.  I was getting serious vibes from Jeremy and thought they may show a scene way in the future of the two of them.

6 hours ago, Mystery said:

my DVR cut off after Alex said that Charlie had been with her every minute. Did anything happen after that?

I agree that neither of the "kids" looked like it had been 50 years. But whatever. I'm disappointed that Charlie died, but for me it's not as bad as the ending of How I Met Your Mother (I've never watched an episode of that show again, after that finale). 

Just something along the lines of Charlie saying something like "shall we go?" and Alex saying "I think we're already here" and them panning back to show that Charlie had drawn thousands (or whatever) of hearts in the sand.

Those kids were supposed to be like 50 years old????  No way.  Luke was just getting married and Charlotte was all nervous about it.  They looked early 30's at the latest, but Alex's hand looked like that of a very elderly woman. That confused me a bit, but then I also thought about the fact that it had to have been a fantasy or hallucination or something since Charlie was brain dead and not at all actually talking to his very alive daughter in the future somehow.

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:48 PM, statsgirl said:

Five years of my life I gave to this stupid show just so that Erica Durrance could get her Emmy reel moment.  Blech.

Just because they can write heart-wrenching moments doesn't mean they should.

Well, let's be real.  It's a Canadian show.  She won't get an Emmy.  Maybe a Canadian Screen Award.  But... yeah.  I am very disappointed in how they ended this.  I would've much preferred it if Charlie had gotten another job somewhere else (or even Alex- it happens all the time.  I work at a medical school/hospital so I see it) and they happily went off to raise their family somewhere else.

I just thought that the staff wasn't really acting like one of their close colleagues, friend, ex-husband, etc was dead.  I get that there was still work to be done with the harvesting and surgeries but they just seemed too nonchalant about it.  Even Zach, whose words said that he felt responsible but the delivery, to me, did not. I don't know.  I'm mad.  I saw season 1 on regular network television here in the US (NBC maybe?) and they cancelled it after the first season.  I knew it was a Canadian show and that it was still airing there so I actively sought it out to continue to watch it.  The years progressively got worse.  I hated what they did to Charlie and I really hated what they did to Charlie and Alex's relationship since Alex's unwavering faith in Charlie coming out of the coma is what hooked me.  I am now bitter that I stayed with this show.  Blergh.

[CoyoteBlue]

59 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

But, yeah, I agree- Alex wouldn't have been alone that whole time.  I was getting serious vibes from Jeremy and thought they may show a scene way in the future of the two of them.

I dunno, it took her years to seal the deal with Charlie and they had two kids together!

[Whimsy]

2 minutes ago, CoyoteBlue said:

I dunno, it took her years to seal the deal with Charlie and they had two kids together!

That's true, but she didn't wait very long to get over Charlie and get with Joel.  Plus, she did have that relationship with... that other guy I forget his name.

[dargosmydaddy]

Wendy Crewson (Dana) is going to be starring in the new CTV series The Detail, which has some of same creators/ producers as Saving Hope and Rookie Blue. It will also star Ben Bass and Matt Gordon from Rookie Blue, and if RB and SH are anything to judge by, I'm sure a lot of other actors from these shows will pop up in guest roles eventually. The show will also be airing on ION in the US.

[Mystery]

6 hours ago, Whimsy said:

Those kids were supposed to be like 50 years old????  No way.  Luke was just getting married and Charlotte was all nervous about it.  They looked early 30's at the latest, but Alex's hand looked like that of a very elderly woman. That confused me a bit, but then I also thought about the fact that it had to have been a fantasy or hallucination or something since Charlie was brain dead and not at all actually talking to his very alive daughter in the future somehow.

 I think that that was supposed to be a second vision of Charlotte. She had glasses on (the universal trope of disguise!!). Charlie followed her along a corridor, and I think we were supposed to just jump ahead in years to Alex's deathbed. But of course it's just a guess. 

 

eta   I forgot to say thanks, Whimsy, for the info on the very end of the show. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Mystery

[statsgirl]

It makes sense if they were in two different timelines. But that should have been emphasized, maybe having Charlie change into a different outfit (fashions do change in 50 years) because this just looked sloppy.

On 2017-08-10 at 9:17 AM, Whimsy said:

Well, let's be real.  It's a Canadian show.  She won't get an Emmy.  Maybe a Canadian Screen Award.  But... yeah.  I am very disappointed in how they ended this.  I would've much preferred it if Charlie had gotten another job somewhere else (or even Alex- it happens all the time.  I work at a medical school/hospital so I see it) and they happily went off to raise their family somewhere else.

Hey, Orphan Black is a Canadian show and Tatiana Maslany got an Emmy.  But Erica Durrance is no Tatiana Maslany.

I didn't mean that ED would get an Emmy, just that the episode was written so that she would have that kind of material to act.  Some shows end on what is satisfying for the audience; according to Claudia Black, when Stargate SG1 was ending, the writers said "Let's give the audience what they want for the ending".  Other shows do what the writers want,  How I Met Your Mother. is the current example while St. Elsewhere was the one from the last generation.

I think it was terrible arrogance to end the show with what ED wanted to  act rather than what would have made the audience happy like having  Alex and Charlie finally get their happily ever after in some way.