African Queens - General Discussion

[AgentRXS]

Quote

Jada Pinkett Smith EP’s a series about history’s most iconic African queens. Season 1 will cover Njinga, the fearless 17th century warrior queen of Matamba and Ndongo. Season 2 will cover Cleopatra — one of history's most powerful yet misunderstood women.

Season 1 now streaming on Netflix!

[Enero]

This was a great docu-drama. Njinga was intelligent, strategic, extremely tough and courageous. I’ve not read the biography on her but have bought the book from Amazon and plan to read. 

Despite this being a great watch, it was difficult because knowing history Njinga’s long fight though valiant would not end the way she desired, at least not long term. Eventually the Portuguese would get their way. 

I hope this will be a series that adds future seasons that explores the history of other African Queens and black female leaders of the Caribbean during the 18th and 19th centuries. 

[DanaK]

On 10/5/2021 at 8:51 PM, AgentRXS said:

Coming soon to Netflix!

Just to point out, they swapped the subjects around; Season 1 is on Njinga and Season 2 on Cleopatra. Also to note, Season 1 is 4 episodes; it's possible Season 2 will be as well

[AgentRXS]

On 3/2/2023 at 3:01 PM, DanaK said:

Just to point out, they swapped the subjects around; Season 1 is on Njinga and Season 2 on Cleopatra. Also to note, Season 1 is 4 episodes; it's possible Season 2 will be as well

Edited post! Thank you.

[DanaK]

Season 2, on Cleopatra drops May 10, with 4 episodes

Press release and trailer http://www.thefutoncritic.com/video/2023/04/12/video-queen-cleopatra-official-trailer-netflix-125312/20230412netflix04/

 

[DanaK]

Apparently Egyptians are big mad at Cleopatra being portrayed as possibly Black. The director talks about Season 2 https://variety.com/2023/tv/global/queen-cleopatra-black-netflix-egypt-1235590708/

[Tenshinhan]

It was probably a mistake for Pinkett to even include Cleopatra to begin with.  She claims that she wants to represent Black women with the series, and yet chooses a Greek ruler from colonized Egypt?

[Notwisconsin]

Okay, since this is about dead royals and the site's primarily about TV, Here's an example of how NOT to discuss a historical documentary you've not seen yet.

I just binged it last night, and it's not particularly good. It's also a bit racist. But as the reviewer hadn't seen it yet, it's totally clueless. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/02/opinion/netflix-queen-cleopatra-black/

[ancslove]

I hate that this has become a cultural flashpoint.  Historical fiction dramas can cast whom they want, and I’d have no problem with Adele James’ casting in something like a Starz series.  (Please, Starz, make a Cleopatra series!).  But as for JPS’ stated purpose here, there are so many Egyptian queens who really were Egyptian and whose stories deserve to be known.  Couldn’t she have picked Hatshepsut or Tiye or Nerfertiti or someone whose name I don’t even know?! 

[Notwisconsin]

13 minutes ago, ancslove said:

 Historical fiction dramas can cast whom they want,

I agree, but sometimes they get in trouble if they do it wrong (a Black woman as Anne Bolyen, just doesn't work unless Henry VIII and the rest of the court are as well, or it's an entirely fantasy situation like SIX)

However, and this is the main point, this is NOT historical fiction. This is a dramatic DOCUMENTARY, one of whose argument was that Cleo was BLACK in order to instill racial and ethnic pride in African Americans.

[ancslove]

Yep, and considering Cleopatra was the last of a family of imperialist conquerors, she’s an odd choice to cling to.  Plus the Ptolemies were infamous for marrying each other because they didn’t want Egyptian blood “tainting” their power.  Cleo’s younger half sister Arsinoe would’ve been a better choice, because her mother likely was a concubine of mixed race.  Plus Arsinoe was cool and tragic and needs to be more known!

[Notwisconsin]

2 minutes ago, ancslove said:

Cleo’s younger half sister Arsinoe would’ve been a better choice, because her mother likely was a concubine of mixed race.  Plus Arsinoe was cool and tragic and needs to be more known!

She's in there, but her death is treated like it was a nice thing to do. (she's also depicted as Subsaharan as were Ptolomies 12, 13 and 14).

[MissLucas]

As a drama nobody would mind. As a documentary you'll have to deal with accusations of pushing a Hotep agenda. That said casting Cleopatra has become a nightmare in the current climate. You'd basically need someone with Greek/Macedonian, a bit of Coptic and maybe some sub-Saharan DNA. Good luck with that.

What I don't understand is why JPS did not cover the Kushite queens? Plenty of good stories there. 

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ancient-africa-queens-nubia

 

[Notwisconsin]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:00 AM, DanaK said:

Apparently Egyptians are big mad at Cleopatra being portrayed as possibly Black

Not possibly Black. DEFINATELY Black. Promoting the notorious historical lie was the whole point of this entire season. The History was bad, the acting was mediocre, and the whole thing was a shambles. This was worse than the History Channel's "It was ALIENS!!!!" series.

https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/why-everyone-hates-netflixs-cleopatra

Edited May 14, 2023 by Notwisconsin
I found this and it fits.

[Notwisconsin]

The objections to Gal Godot were pure antisemitism. They objected to her because she's Israeli and they hate Israel and all things Jewish.

A really good podcast on the subject of the series in question: https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/why-everyone-hates-netflixs-cleopatra

Edited May 14, 2023 by Notwisconsin

[BookEater]

I had always thought Cleopatra was ethnically more white than black? Is that even a question anymore? Queen Tiye would be a good subject for a fictional historical drama, and she was Nubian/Saharan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiye

She was one of the most illustrious ancient Egyptian Queens, the mother in law of Nefertiti and probably the grandmother of Tutankhamen, she died in her early 60’s and a lock of her hair was found in his tomb.

[Morrigan2575]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:46 PM, BookEater said:

had always thought Cleopatra was ethnically more white than black? I

We don't even know if she had any black in her. Her Grandmother is the question mark, no one knows who she was but, that doesn't mean she was Sub-Saharan and most probably wasn't.

Every recorded detail (coins, busts, paintings) of Cleopatra is of a Greek/Mediterranean looking woman. Even in writings from Rome, where she lived for 2 years there's no mention of her being anything else. 

I wouldn't even care if this wasn't labeled a documentary.

ETA: the other thing that bugs me...they have her fighting/practiceing with a sword. Cleopatra was a scholar and, a politician she wasn't Xena Warrior Princess. 🙄

Edited May 16, 2023 by Morrigan2575

[Tenshinhan]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:45 PM, Notwisconsin said:

The objections to Gal Godot were pure antisemitism. 

Somehow I doubt this.  

 

Quote

They objected to her because she's Israeli and they hate Israel and all things Jewish.

Who is "they"?

 

On 5/14/2023 at 5:46 PM, BookEater said:

I had always thought Cleopatra was ethnically more white than black? Is that even a question anymore?

Apparently it is to Jada.

[Notwisconsin]

3 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

Somehow I doubt this.  

 

Who is "they"?

 

Apparently it is to Jada.

The people who objected to Gal Gadot were entirely antisemitic supporters of Palestinian revanchism. https://7news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/casting-of-white-actress-gal-gadot-as-cleopatra-draws-anger-but-for-misguided-reason-c-1381497 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54529836

[Tenshinhan]

1 hour ago, Notwisconsin said:

The people who objected to Gal Gadot were entirely antisemitic supporters of Palestinian revanchism. 

Absolutely nothing in those articles you posted indicates any kind of anti-Semitism.  Only one poorly conceived suggestion by an Israeli journalist that alludes to Jewish exclusion from casting.  Far from "pure anti-Semitism".

Also, it is very destructive and misguided to falsely equate antisemitism with support for Palestinians.

[Notwisconsin]

57 minutes ago, Tenshinhan said:

Absolutely nothing in those articles you posted indicates any kind of anti-Semitism.  Only one poorly conceived suggestion by an Israeli journalist that alludes to Jewish exclusion from casting.  Far from "pure anti-Semitism".

Also, it is very destructive and misguided to falsely equate antisemitism with support for Palestinians.

yeah, it does. Excluding Jews for being Jewish when there's no reason to do so is antisemitic.  Also, wanting to destroy the lives of Every jew in the middle east is antisemitic as well.

But that's starting to get off-topic. The producers of THAT film were never saying that Cleo was Jewish. The producers of THIS film were proclaiming that she was BLACK. That was the whole point of the thing.  

Edited May 19, 2023 by Notwisconsin