S06.E13: JD

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2021.05.16

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June splits off from the group in an effort to gather any information to help stop an oncoming threat.

 

[BasilSeal]

Decent episode, although, massive coincidence alert. We were told early on in this show to expect coincidences, and they do keep  on coming.

[maystone]

I saw the ep last Thursday and then could hardly wait to hear what others here thought of it. I really enjoyed it. I love the chemistry between Jenna and Keith Carradine, and I think he's a great addition to the show for however long he lasts. I can buy him still being in the area or at least coming back to the area due to Teddy. And won't that be a match-up when those two meet - which I'm almost positive is going to happen. It's Ahab and the great white whale. It's Chekhov's Teddy. Plus it will give a whole new direction and (one hopes) energy to the story.

[heisenberg]

Well, they had to swap JD with JD and they did it the right way,  so I'm in.

[GustavMahler]

Wow! Talk about coincidences! No, I do not mean what transpired on the show, but Carradine's  Hickok was shot by Dillahunt's McCall on Deadwood and now they be Father and Son....

[DavidWeis1]

I have to admit there were a few times when I got distracted and looked up and thought I’d stumbled on a rerun of one of the Big Bang Theory episodes where Carradine played Penny’s father.

Although, for the exception of Penny, none of the characters from BBT would have lasted a millisecond in Fear. They’d do better one the other show, about the kids hiking through the Zombie apocalypse looking for whatever it it kids look for.

[BasilSeal]

47 minutes ago, GustavMahler said:

Wow! Talk about coincidences! No, I do not mean what transpired on the show, but Carradine's  Hickok was shot by Dillahunt's McCall on Deadwood and now they be Father and Son....

Good spot, I'd forgotten about that one.

I forget now which character said that we should expect coincidences, i think it was one of the killy spring break dudes Travis and Chris bump into in season 2. Coincidences do drive much of the lot development in this show though.

25 minutes ago, DavidWeis1 said:

I have to admit there were a few times when I got distracted and looked up and thought I’d stumbled on a rerun of one of the Big Bang Theory episodes where Carradine played Penny’s father.

Although, for the exception of Penny, none of the characters from BBT would have lasted a millisecond in Fear. They’d do better one the other show, about the kids hiking through the Zombie apocalypse looking for whatever it it kids look for.

Carradine is a good addition to the cast, I can't decide whether he's been brought in as a surrogate for Dillahunt because Dillahunt wanted out before the writers were finished with his character. (this way they don't even need to change the mane on the scripts), or whether this was a plot development that they've planned all along. JD snr's abandonment of JD jnr was a significant part of his character development, and JD snr has been a significant off stage character for awhile now, so this could have been what they intended from the outset. there are a number of parallels that suggest this, it fits with the parent / child them prevalent in  fTWD, and the abandonment of JD jnr mirrors his own abandonment of June.

It's significant that the two johns are not reunited until after the death of the younger one, with the poignant letter where John bids his farewell to June and conveniently adds: "Oh, and while i'm at it, i also forgive my dad, on the off chance you might run into a guy i've not seen for forty years, you know, just in case he's riding around the locality in an RV hunting a 70's serial killer who's heading up a post apocalyptic death cult, i mean it's a long shot, but you never know"

John snr is a a convenient cypher because he not only gives us the audience the necessary background on who Teddy is and why he's doing what he's doing, but he also brings the characters up to speed in a way that cuts out loads of tedious exposition, that's one way to look at it, the other is that it's just incredibly lazy writing. "how do our heroes find out Teddy's motives? How about they just happen to bump into a guy who knows everything about him, and is also a close blood relative of one of the main characters, so we know he's probably trustworthy, that's not implausible, at all."

[DrNowsWeightScale]

I've not yet read all the posts to this topic, so I may edit this post later to comment on other people's comments.

I enjoyed last night's Fear episode.
(Minus the horse-shooing incident (!!), I did not like that part. I'm an animal lover and hate seeing this stuff in shows or reading about it in real life news.)

Last night's episode is more of the sort of story telling I'd like to see on this show going forward.

It was largely interpersonal-conflict, we had June Vs. John Dorie Sr. (John's father, played by Keith Carradine), and Dwight Vs. Sherry.

It was not the usual recipe of "Group A" fights "Group B" stuff, which gets old for me very fast.
(The June/ John Sr stuff was partially in service to that story line, true, but without the emphasis on it.)

To be totally honest here - and nothing against the actors, I think they're doing a fine job, the problem is with the scripts - I am largely bored by the Dwight and Sherry relationship.

The show has been diddling around with Dwight's and Sherry's relationship for several episodes now (much as they did with John Dorie and June).

There is just not much drama or interest (not for me), with the "Will they or won't they (stay together or break apart)" type dynamics.

I don't care if Sherry stays or goes.

I am not that vested in their romance (like I didn't care about Maggie And Glenn on the first show, either). 

As much as I like John Dorie (junior, played by GD - Garrett Dillahunt (spelling?)) I grew tired of season five's (or four's?) on-going limp drama point where he and June felt guilty about being in love while every one around them was suffering loss and tragedy.

(Edit: Not that I am opposed to any and all romantic scenes or plot lines among any of the characters, but when done in an interesting way.  But these shows tend to make them dull, dull, dull and oh- so- tedious.)

Those were weak sauce story lines to give a great character John Dorie (the GD one, junior), just having him make moon eyes at June and wax romantical every other episode.

So I'm already tired of this sort of thing with the Sherry and Dwight pairing.

As far as Group A vs. Group B stuff, so long as the antagonist group is interesting, I'm more willing to put up with it, and IMO, the antagonist group this go round is so far off to a promising start (the cult like lunatics led by the serial killer guy, Teddy).

I do think the new group of Baddies is interesting, but this show has the sad, frustrating tendency of ruining interesting premises or characters, or squandering them. 

I like the addition of Keith Carradine as Dorie Sr. He seems like a really good actor. I just hope the show doesn't waste him and his character like they did with Dillahunt / Dorie Jr. 

In my opinion, Jenna Elfman's "funeral" type scene was some really good acting.
The part where she got to the section of the letter where John calls her "June Bug" and she breaks down felt authentic to me. 

As to the letter June read aloud, the one by John Jr.

He wrote that letter to her around the time he was going to cut and run from Lawton, to try to save the life of that lady who was framed for the murder of that guy.

That was in the same episode where John Jr. was telling the Rabbi the background of his dad, how his dad did the wrong things for the right reasons (framed a serial killer to get him tossed into jail). 

So to me... it wasn't total convenient pandering that the letter's content was what it was, as June read it with John Sr. standing by her side at the funeral. 

I'm glad the show spent more time last night addressing her grief and the loss of that character, instead of just glossing it over. In real life, when a close loved one dies, you will spend YEARS in grief - not just a few days, weeks, or months. It will be YEARS.

Not saying I want to tune in every episode and see June crying over John's death, but the occasional shed tear or reminiscence after the death every few episodes for the next season or so would be more realistic and satisfying for me.

(It's just a huge pet peeve of mine when characters on shows lose a loved one and the show never brings it up again, as though the person instantly got over the loss. That's not how real life grieving works at all!)

I liked the ickiness of the zombie getting intertwined with the under-carriage of the RV.
That was grody, in a good, entertaining way - it's one reason I have always liked zombie movies and shows.

I wish the John Dorie Sr. character wasn't as grouchy as he was. I'm kind of surprised he's not more like his son.
Junior was more... I don't know - has more sweetness to his personality. 

(Edit. I mean, I overall like the Dorie Sr. character, I just hope he's not as grouchy in future episodes)

I did like learning that child Dorie Junior liked to sit and eat his butterscotch ice cream and candies sitting on the porch at Bill's.

When Sr. told June that John Jr. may have carved his initials in a back room at Bill's, I already saw the set up for that - he was going to lock her in that back room the moment she walked in, and yep, that was what happened. I saw that coming.

All in all, I enjoyed the episode. I still think getting rid of Dorie Jr (or was he technically John Dorie the IV? The III?) was a big mistake.

If they keep up this momentum, though, I think the show may be better as we go along - I hope.

Edited May 17, 2021 by DrNowsWeightScale

[Crashcourse]

I like Keith Carradine and I think he's a great addition to the show.   Please don't kill him off, show!

I was so hopeful for Dwight and Sherry when they found each other, but now I'm very disappointed because I don't like her at all.  I hope she gets offed and he and June wind up together, like Morgan and Grace.

[BasilSeal]

26 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I was so hopeful for Dwight and Sherry when they found each other, but now I'm very disappointed because I don't like her at all.  I hope she gets offed and he and June wind up together, like Morgan and Grace.

The situation between Dwight and Sherry highlights one of the weaknesses in the show's writing. The writers give Dwight the arc of hunting for Sherry, which is what brings him to this show, they need him to eventually find her but once he's found her they don't know what to do with the pair of them because, this being TWD, they don't want them being happy, well, not for long anyway, so they end up in this relationship stasis, for which there's no really convincing justification, which is just annoying. Sherry is just coming across as selfish and self centered, yes, she'shad some horrible things done to her so perhaps we should cut her some slack, but so has everyone else and we can't see them killing horses.

[Crashcourse]

2 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

Sherry is just coming across as selfish and self centered, yes, she'shad some horrible things done to her so perhaps we should cut her some slack, but so has everyone else and we can't see them killing horses.

Yes, I can certainly understand her wanting to kill Negan, but I can't forgive her for killing the horse.  I think Dwight is having second thoughts about their relationship, even though he still loves her. 

[MrPissyPuppy]

45 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It is that type of thing that makes me lose total interest in the character, meaning Sherry.  She was told that she was going to run that horse to death if she kept pushing the horse, and that is exactly what happened.  She just didn't give a damn.  If Sherry has a likable soft side, I just don't see it.  I don't like the character.  I am also an animal lover and hate when harm comes to them in television shows as well as the real world.

I don't like Sherry (or Dwight) either.   As for killing the horse, there's a very specific way to shoot a horse in the head to kill it and just aiming your gun willy nilly from many feet away is probably not going to do it. 

[nodorothyparker]

Because I don't really get all that attached to fictional/CGI animals, I'm mostly left wondering where the magical horse trees are that people on this and the mother show can be so cavalier about killing them or letting them get killed through their own carelessness or stupidity. I know it's Texas and all, but just how many tame saddle-broken horses are there a couple of years into the ZA for the taking? You'd think they'd be guarding them like gold.

It's forever been interesting to me that this franchise attracts the talent that it does, but I guess even in its waning popularity, it garners a certain amount of eyeballs and press and guarantees your spot on the convention circuit if you're so inclined. Swapping one John Dorie for another probably only could have worked for a character as popular and beloved as the original recipe was, and once I decided to just go with it found myself liking Keith Carradine's crotchety take on the character. I also like that it allowed the show this far into the franchise to actually have something to say about grief and loss in a world full of it.

Sherry makes a certain amount of sense to me as someone who was deeply traumatized and hardened by Negan, and it's also rather interesting to me that this show can fully acknowledge that trauma while the redemption train is full speed ahead on the mother show. But yeah, right now she's a classic case of the chase for the girl being more interesting than the end result.

 

[diebartdie]

45 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Because I don't really get all that attached to fictional/CGI animals, I'm mostly left wondering where the magical horse trees are that people on this and the mother show can be so cavalier about killing them or letting them get killed through their own carelessness or stupidity. I know it's Texas and all, but just how many tame saddle-broken horses are there a couple of years into the ZA for the taking? You'd think they'd be guarding them like gold.

 

 

Agree to all this and want to add, seems like everyone would be on board with the idea of eating horses once they were no longer useful as a conveyance or as a pack animal. That's a lot of meat is what Im saying. Plus, the hide is extremely useful. Really all parts of the animal would be super useful. Whatever, these people live in a magical world where 20 years into the ZA there are still brightly colored clothes available in everyone's sizes down at the never looted mall. Also sturdy, machine made hiking boots. Even make up. Clothes on raggedy, decaying zombies stay intact forever, it's the magical land of abundance! Gasoline that never goes bad. People with just basic first aid training + a few hours watching "M.A.S.H" back in the day are all you need in order to successfully complete gut surgery after a point black shot from a sawed off shot-gun!

[nodorothyparker]

Apparently the gas goes bad sometime between this show, which is still on the 18 months to 2 years timeline and that of the mother show, which I think about 11 years out. Unless you're brewing some version of your own ethanol for your wildly impractical in the ZA motorcycle. Meanwhile, here in the real world you have to refill the gas can for the mower every summer.

I have favorite pieces of clothes that are years old, but yeah, after a certain point they're going to start looking faded or developing small holes, and that's without needing to beat them against a rock to wash them or living mostly outside in them. But that's probably not a thread we want to pull at too hard. Half of our casts on both shows look like they raided an untouched L.L. Bean.

[BasilSeal]

 

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I know it's Texas and all, but just how many tame saddle-broken horses are there a couple of years into the ZA for the taking?

Indeed, technically horses are something that could be a renewable resource after the apocalypse, but the saddlery and bridles aren't, and as far as we know they just left all that with the dead horse.

They also seem to be playing on infinite ammo setting at the moment as well.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Swapping one John Dorie for another probably only could have worked for a character as popular and beloved as the original recipe was, and once I decided to just go with it found myself liking Keith Carradine's crotchety take on the character.

I am actually hoping as the show unfolds that Dad Dorie isn't as grouchy.

Dorie Jr. was a breath of fresh air for me, as most (not all, but most) of my family are grumpy, crotchety types who constantly see the glass as half empty.

It was so nice to tune in and see a character on a show who is the opposite of what I grew up with (and still endure now).

Also, show-wise, it was nice to see a character (ie, Dorie Jr) who had a gentle demeanor and who was genuinely altruistic. So many of the people on these shows are selfish.

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by DieBartDie

Whatever, these people live in a magical world where 20 years into the ZA there are still brightly colored clothes available in everyone's sizes down at the never looted mall. Also sturdy, machine made hiking boots. Even make up. Clothes on raggedy, decaying zombies stay intact forever,

One of my pet peeves with the Walking Dead shows... and sorry if I've mentioned this before...

And I assume they do this because it saves on show time, production, etc.

At least to my own memory (which could be faulty), I've never seen a zombie on this show, or not many, who are wearing skirts, shorts, dresses, tank tops, bathing suits, leggings, tuxedos, business suits, overalls, football uniforms, cheerleader uniforms, scrubs (ie, doctor zombies), or t-shirts. 

The vast majority of the time, the zombies are in long pants (usually jeans), long- sleeved, dreary-colored, plaid shirts (like they're all 1990s Grunge rockers).

Why aren't any of the zombies wearing t-shirts with Batman logos on them? Or images of Mickey Mouse, Iron Man, etc?

(Yes, I know, because AMC would have to pay copyright usage to Disney, DC, Marvel, etc,
but I mean, in real life, kid zombies would likely be in the occasional Darth Vader t-shirt or whatever.
Adults would be in sports team t-shirts or hoodies.
Just seems weird to never see a zombie wearing a Beatles, AC/DC, Pink Floyd, or Wonder Woman t-shirt).

There was one zombie in the last episode of Fear who was wearing a "Don't Mess With Texas" t-shirt,
and maybe one in years past who was in a long skirt?
and maybe the girl zombie from the pilot was in pajamas (if memory serves), but that is so rare.

I sit there and think, you mean to tell me in these mid-western / southern states, where the humidity is high and the temperatures are high, that not a single person who turned zombie did so while wearing a pair of shorts, a skirt, t-shirt, tank top?

I don't think any of them are in flip flops, high heels, flats.... or sneakers. Most of the zombies seem to be in non-descript brown leather type shoes. Have any of them been in Nike sneakers with the swoosh logo, or Adidas?

Everybody at the dawn of the apocalypse was in long jeans and a long-sleeved flannel / plaid shirt, really?

I guess if they show many zombies in tank tops and shorts, it would take them ten times as long to paint zombie make-up on their exposed legs and arms, I get that - but it's something that has always grated on my nerves.

Seriously, the next time you watch a Walking Dead show, pay attention to how 99% of the zombies are dressed in blue jeans and long sleeved, button down, plaid shirts.
Once you notice it, you cannot un-notice it.

Some of the "Fear" characters seem dressed in a such a way to evoke 19th century Westerns - June was wearing long-sleeved, button-up, yellow blouse with small flowers on it awhile ago that looked similar to patterns I used to see "Ma Ingalls" wear in the "Little House On the Prairie" shows.

I'd think a plain t-shirt would be ten times more comfortable (especially in hot and humid Texas). 

Edited May 18, 2021 by DrNowsWeightScale

[BasilSeal]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:17 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Apparently the gas goes bad sometime between this show, which is still on the 18 months to 2 years timeline and that of the mother show, which I think about 11 years out. Unless you're brewing some version of your own ethanol for your wildly impractical in the ZA motorcycle. Meanwhile, here in the real world you have to refill the gas can for the mower every summer.

It's possible to make petrol and diesel from 'cracking' waste plastics. you'd need some knowledge of chemistry and a decent workshop, but it's doable and a site easier than digging your own oil well and refining crude oil.

making fuel isn't the only obstacle to keeping  cars running though, there are lots of consumable parts, from brake pads to oil filters and clutch plates that would require sophisticated manufacturing processes to make. The electronics on modern cars wouldn't fare to well in the apocalypse either. I thin TWD tends to use older vehicles as an aesthetic look to symbolise decay, but it also makes sense to use machines that are mechanically simple and easier for the post apocalyptic DIY mechanic to fix.

One thing that we discussed on the world beyond forum last year was that the larger groups like the CRM and Commonwealth must have the ability to manufacture complex spare parts to keep their helicopters etc running.