Season 4: History Beyond the Episodes

[Notwisconsin]

a homework assignment in preparation for season 5:

Stephen Frears' "Tony Blair trilogy," starring Michael Sheen as you-know-who

*The Queen (2006)

*The Special Relationship (2010) [ directed by Richard Loncraine]

*The Deal (2003)

You have to remember that Blair was PM nearly as long as Thatcher was. Sheen is great in all three.

[Fool to cry]

So I predict they're going to make Charles sympathetic again in season 5. The person who made the right call and insisted to take the Royal jet to Paris and that his ex-wife's body be brought home in a coffin draped by the Royal standard against the Queen's wishes is not that same villainous character we saw in season 4. 

[Roseanna]

On 8/9/2021 at 9:03 PM, Fool to cry said:

So I predict they're going to make Charles sympathetic again in season 5. The person who made the right call and insisted to take the Royal jet to Paris and that his ex-wife's body be brought home in a coffin draped by the Royal standard against the Queen's wishes is not that same villainous character we saw in season 4. 

I don't think Charles was exactly "villainous" in S4, rather he was weak by letting himself to be persuaded by his father to make a decision about marriage despite his hesitations. 

It's rather Diana whose character development is the crux of the matter in S5. She isn't any more a young girl but a grown-up woman, so she shouldn't be presented only as an offer but she shares responsibility on her acts, especially how her public war with her husband influences on her sons.

In the new document Royals Classified it was revealed how Diana was persuaded to give the Panorama interview with lies. Several persons testified that she was very easy to manipulate and even paranoid.

It's an enormous job to create a character who has not only a public persona and a private person but who has many inner contradictions. Hope it succeeds!

[Spartan Girl]

On 8/9/2021 at 2:03 PM, Fool to cry said:

So I predict they're going to make Charles sympathetic again in season 5. The person who made the right call and insisted to take the Royal jet to Paris and that his ex-wife's body be brought home in a coffin draped by the Royal standard against the Queen's wishes is not that same villainous character we saw in season 4. 

I’m guessing more along the lines that her death will trigger some much overdue remorse over the way he treated her, and his guilt will influence those decisions, or at least the fact that he knew how popular she was.

[Roseanna]

On 8/23/2021 at 4:33 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I’m guessing more along the lines that her death will trigger some much overdue remorse over the way he treated her, and his guilt will influence those decisions, or at least the fact that he knew how popular she was.

I believe that Charles had already dealt the matter and understood, and accepted, that by trying to put his "duty" first and thus to act unlike the duke of Windsor had done, he had made a grievous mistake. Their age, interests and experiences were so different that their marriage was doomed from the start (and would have been also without Camilla). On the other hand, how could he have known as she had presented him an image of herself that wasn't a true one? Then again, he had been too weak to withstand the pressure to propose before he got to know her (and she him, for that matter).

No doubt the situation after Diana's death was extremely difficult to Charles, the Queen and the royal family, who knew that, however charismatic and charming Diana was in public, in private she had been difficult to dealt with as one could never anticipate her changing moods. In the new documentary Royals classified several persons (including Andrew Morton) even testified of her paranoia. 

Hopefully, Charles could feel empathy towards her like one feels towards a person with so problems she isn't responsible for her actions, but no doubt his main focus was on his sons.

 

[aghst]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:23 AM, Notwisconsin said:

a homework assignment in preparation for season 5:

Stephen Frears' "Tony Blair trilogy," starring Michael Sheen as you-know-who

*The Queen (2006)

*The Special Relationship (2010) [ directed by Richard Loncraine]

*The Deal (2003)

You have to remember that Blair was PM nearly as long as Thatcher was. Sheen is great in all three.

 

On 8/9/2021 at 11:03 AM, Fool to cry said:

So I predict they're going to make Charles sympathetic again in season 5. The person who made the right call and insisted to take the Royal jet to Paris and that his ex-wife's body be brought home in a coffin draped by the Royal standard against the Queen's wishes is not that same villainous character we saw in season 4. 

I remember seeing what was undoubtedly The Queen on a flight a long time ago.

I wasn't aware that it was a highly-acclaimed movie when I saw it.  Certainly knew of Mirren and Frears but wasn't familiar with the movie at the time.

That is the one thing that struck me, Charles begging Elizabeth to let him use the private jet.  Elizabeth was wary about ostentatious displays by the Royal Family, because she was worried about public perception for some reason.

But I probably fell asleep watching The Queen so I'm going to try to watch it again.  I haven't watched seasons other than Season 4 of The Crown -- still undecided if I will watch earlier seasons.

Howard Stern was talking about how poorly the royals came off in season 4, remarking how Elizabeth refused to hug Diana, who is shown as desperate for the slightest affection.

Elizabeth isn't overtly cold or hostile to Diana, not like the way Charles is.   But she isn't exactly warm to her either, even though she is the mother of the heirs to the Crown, which Elizabeth seemed to value over everything else.

I wonder about how the writers of the show and movies would be know about what must have been private conversations among the family.  Are they just imagining it?  How would they know for instance that Charles demanded the jet or that the members of the family were at best indifferent to Diana?

At least in season 4, the members of the family do not come across as despicable, other than Charles.  They are self-aware and they are shown to have a certain wit.  Maybe the distinguished cast covers over the horribleness of the people they portray to a certain extent with the brilliant performances.

Anne and Margaret are shown as being unhappy to an extent. so it's hard to see them as hateful, even if they were at best indifferent to Diana.

Elizabeth herself didn't come across as venal.  And they show the young Elizabeth striking noble notes in her speech for the Commonwealth, though that was by a different actress than Coleman.

[AnnieBananie]

To link HIV/AIDS back to the Royals: today I finished Lady Anne Glenconner's terrific memoir Lady in Waiting: My Extraordinary Life in the Shadow of the Crown (she was Pss Margaret's lady in waiting and played a role in QEII's Coronation), and Lady Anne's son Henry died of AIDS at 29 in the 1980s. She discusses at length the attitudes toward the disease at the time he died and both Margaret's and Diana's kind and loving attentions to him. 

[Notwisconsin]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:14 AM, swanpride said:

Wait...you have (or had at some point) a tax for VOTING????? Man, every time I think I have understood how questionable the system is, something else crops up.

No. A poll tax is in fact a POLE tax. If you didn't pay up, they would hit you with a pole, or something like that. It's a tax on breathing pretty much.

 

It turns out that Anne did the same thing as Charles: