S04.E08: Lowkey Happy

[speedroc]

6 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I forget how it ended. Last we saw Dro was at the baby shower & we found out his wife was pregnant. He was pissy with Molly for ending it.

If I recall, Molly finally got fed up with the situation (understandably so) when they were at a hotel and Dro got a call from his wife and had to leave.

This episode was gold. It was so well written,acted and filmed. I can relate personally to many of the themes of the situation they were/are in.

And I subscribe to the notion that this was closure for both of them while still knowing that they will always care for one another and be friends.

Edited June 5, 2020 by speedroc

[DearEvette]

It felt like Molly would be lulled into feeling like Dro really was her boyfriend until she’d be confronted with reality that he was married.  

At Derek’s birthday party she seemed truly shocked to see Candice there and then witnessed them acting like the married couple they were.  You could tell she was feeling ignored and invisible.  And then Dro pulled her into the bathroom and did her on the sink. Like he was having a dirty quickie with his side piece.

The whole vibe was weird.  It was why so many people seemed to question if Dro and Candice really did have an open marriage or if that was just a bill of good Dro sold Molly.

Edited June 5, 2020 by DearEvette

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Dro was Molly’s childhood friend. Dro is married. He hit on her, she was like “? You’re married,” he told her his marriage was open, & they started sleeping together. She slept with him when she found out her dad had cheated (and ditched fine Sterling K. Brown to do it). I forget how it ended. Last we saw Dro was at the baby shower & we found out his wife was pregnant. He was pissy with Molly for ending it.

Its so rare I get exactly what I asked for thank you.  That's perfect.  I kinda vaguely remember it now.  

[lasu]

I loved this episode.  I was all over the place. I loved seeing why Lawrence and Issa worked in the first place.  My jaw dropped when I saw that first call from Condola, because Issa had already said, "I heard you two broke up." And he just nodded.  So when I found out he was still talking to her, my stomach just dropped.  But as it progressed, it seemed like maybe they hadn't been seeing each other, like dating, but maybe talking, or even just that she wanted to talk to him.  Which makes me think unfortunately she is pregnant.  I think that's why they broke up (with him not knowing yet, her wanting space to figure things out) and it also sort of makes sense why she ghosted Issa.  I was really shocked she behaved that way towards Issa just because she and Lawrence broke up, but if you are just found out you are pregnant, I can see not wanting to be around his very recent ex who maybe he still has a connection with.  I'm hopeful it's not the case, even if Issa and Lawrence don't get back together.

I didn't think Issa stayed over JUST because she found out he was going to go see Condola.  She kept extending the night, first the art walk (which when he walked away, I nearly died, I was absolutely gut punched and that shit wouldn't have been funny to me - I would have started crying on the spot I would have just felt so rejected, lol), then being pretty clear about wanting to come in, then going to the bathroom to extend.  Yes, she had found out he was still talking to Condola, but Condola (IMO) ended their friendship and any loyalty owed, beyond some  sort of "girl code" if you want to apply it here.  I think she was already debating herself on wanting more from the night well before she knew he might be going to see Condola.  When she did find out, she started to leave, and then I think she thought...fuck it.  If I were in her shoes, feeling her feelings, I think I would have done the same thing.  I would (maybe it's justification) think my history with Lawrence would trump Condola's.  And to be honest, there might be part of me that would want to know...if he has to choose, will he choose me?  And now that she knows for at least one night he chose her, it might be easier to walk away with that win and let him be happy and be happy for him.  However, I thought they were super unclear on what happens next, or even what Issa wants to happen next.  Which...real life, y'all.

And I hope y'all will indulge me in a completely off topic story.  Reading everyone's posts and differing opinions about Lawrence made me think about how I'm certainly partial to him simply because my dad (who raised me as a single dad and passed away many years ago) was named Lawrence.  Lawrence and Susan gets you Laura Suzanne which gets you lasu.  Well, that thought process made me also think about how my grandfather had a little clothing line when I was a kid named after me, but I have not a single piece left of it (this was the early 80s!!).  This led me to google for the millionth time and for the FIRST TIME EVER, I found a skirt!  I literally burst into tears and bought a piece of my childhood for $8.00.  All thanks to debate over whether or not Lawrence is a good guy!!  Can you be high key happy?

[RealReality]

@lasu I'm happy for you!

I think issa's decision to stay was influenced by a number of factors.  I'm sure some were bigger than others. 

She seemed sad the date ended, but was ready to leave until Lawrence told the driver to wait five minutes.  

I remember issa previously saying that she felt like condola was getting the fruits of her labor with Lawrence.  

So, I'm sure seeing evidence of that in his grown man apartment and biweekly housekeeper had to be....something. 

The way the scene was set up gave me a different impression, but one similar to yours.  Like maybe she was on the fence, maybe she wanted to spend more time together but not have sex yet....maybe get some Latoya updates. 

But coming out of the bathroom knowing that Lawrence was going to see condola kinda pushed her towards having sex, because of some competitive spirit and fear of losing Lawrence for good. 

However, it's entirely possible that she was in the bathroom getting mirror issas opinion on what to do and mirror issa told her to go for it. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by RealReality

[heavysnaxx]

18 hours ago, RealReality said:

I guess it's possible I don't know what messy is.  

To me, all these entanglements are messy, because issa is putting herself in a position to get her feelings hurt.  I think Lawrence wanted to explore getting back together, issa was open to that.  Had she just left at the end of the night I woulda been happy for her.  

But sleeping with a man you really like?  I don't know how a person doesn't get emotionally attached.  Now, that could just be me. TSA bae, issa didn't really like him and never had feelings for him, but she has and had feelings for Lawrence. 

So I don't know how she sleeps with him without getting emotionally invested.....with a man who is seeing someone else.....and is likely to want to move.

That level of entanglement seems messy to me.  

And yeah technically you're right, but if I had someone who I was once friendly with and I knew that they were kinda involved with someone the way Lawrence is with condola....i wouldn't feel very comfortable being a party to that person getting ghosted. 

Particularly if that person seemed as effected by the breakup as condola was.  Issa owes condola nothing, but if I were in issas position, I wouldn't feel good about it.  I don't like being a party to someone's pain, even if I'm not responsible for it. 

This possible love triangle (quadrangle, is Nathan a thing) with a guy who may just be leaving for another job feels like a bad idea and it feels messy to me. 

Were Lawrence and issa spending time together and casually dating to decide if they could be a couple again that would seem much tidier to me.  

However, I would concede that I haven't read an official definition of messy, this just seems very, very messy to me.  

You know the acronym YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)? Well, I agree with you - Your Messiness May Vary!

I like that we see Issa at the end of this episode really looking around thoughtfully at where she lives - like it's all HER space -- without it being a mopey walk weighed down by an unresolved relationship situation. I like that neither she nor the show's POV seems to be saying she's entitled to know what will happen with Lawrence. As the title indicates, happiness can coexist with uncertainty.

What I wanted to say about Issa forgoing dating Lawrence because he used to date Condola (a premise I don't actually understand, I confess): It seems like this only leads to a place I wouldn't want to go to. Where a guy is with me because his ex wasn't available or a third-party had some inappropriate influence.

Another problem: If two potential partners are that interchangeable, then the relationships are just not that deep and none of this hand-wringing is warranted, in the first place.

It seems like some serious level-jumping to base a relationship decision on what (to me) sounds like an abstract notion of fair play. Maybe I could understand if they were, I don't know, best friends or something. But Condola and Issa are basically acquaintances who are doing some work together.

Lastly: Not to be all paraphrasing Moonstruck on ya but love is not about making things tidy. Moving to a new city because of your partner or whatever is not a sad ending, and neither is giving them space to figure out what they want. Again - YMMV. My own limited experience via Mr. Heavysnaxx was the very pleasant shock that circumstances I would have assumed made a relationship with me Way Too Messy became Whatever, We're Doing It with zero drama.

 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, heavysnaxx said:

You know the acronym YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)? Well, I agree with you - Your Messiness May Vary!

I like that we see Issa at the end of this episode really looking around thoughtfully at where she lives - like it's all HER space -- without it being a mopey walk weighed down by an unresolved relationship situation. I like that neither she nor the show's POV seems to be saying she's entitled to know what will happen with Lawrence. As the title indicates, happiness can coexist with uncertainty.

What I wanted to say about Issa forgoing dating Lawrence because he used to date Condola (a premise I don't actually understand, I confess): It seems like this only leads to a place I wouldn't want to go to. Where a guy is with me because his ex wasn't available or a third-party had some inappropriate influence.

Another problem: If two potential partners are that interchangeable, then the relationships are just not that deep and none of this hand-wringing is warranted, in the first place.

It seems like some serious level-jumping to base a relationship decision on what (to me) sounds like an abstract notion of fair play. Maybe I could understand if they were, I don't know, best friends or something. But Condola and Issa are basically acquaintances who are doing some work together.

Lastly: Not to be all paraphrasing Moonstruck on ya but love is not about making things tidy. Moving to a new city because of your partner or whatever is not a sad ending, and neither is giving them space to figure out what they want. Again - YMMV. My own limited experience via Mr. Heavysnaxx was the very pleasant shock that circumstances I would have assumed made a relationship with me Way Too Messy became Whatever, We're Doing It with zero drama.

 

I don't think issa should have completely not dated Lawrence.  I don't think she should have slept with Lawrence, for a number of reasons.  

But if their night had ended at the Lyft, I would have assumed they were going hang out again and see where it went.  And that would have had me cheering for issa, because they do get on so well.  

But I also interpreted his invitation and wanting to talk about "what if" was part of considering getting back together.  So, after a great date, even without sex, they were probably going to hang out again.  And she wouldn't be as emotionally invested.  

With someone I really like, I personally get more invested with sex.  I don't think it's a good or bad thing, it's just me and some people may not be the same. 

But that emotional investment makes rational decisions much harder for me. 

And yeah, while there are many, many logical arguments that support issa sleeping with Lawrence and not caring about condola's feelings.....for me, it would feel wrong to be an incidental participant in someone else's pain.  If I could avoid it, I would.... particularly with someone I had once been friendly with. I'm not sure I'd be into that even if it was a work acquaintance.   

We only know that Lawrence may not see his relationship with condola as not serious.  But Lawrence's hurt feelings or the rejection and hurt he feels are not at all an issue. 

I wouldn't assume that it's "not that serious" for condola and that her feelings wouldn't be hurt because Lawrence doesn't have the same feelings.  

And frankly, the only person who may have any idea that she in interchangeable with condola is issa.   Which would be a good reason not to get emotionally invested. 

BUT, who knows really.  That's what's fun about the show.  Different experiences and points of view.  Typing walls of texts amongst friends I shall never see about people who don't exist!!!!!

Edited June 6, 2020 by RealReality

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

Lastly: Not to be all paraphrasing Moonstruck on ya but love is not about making things tidy. Moving to a new city because of your partner or whatever is not a sad ending, and neither is giving them space to figure out what they want. Again - YMMV. My own limited experience via Mr. Heavysnaxx was the very pleasant shock that circumstances I would have assumed made a relationship with me Way Too Messy became Whatever, We're Doing It with zero drama.

I think this is such a good point.  So much about life is technically "messy."  I think what the episode showed is that Issa made an informed choice.  She knew things weren't 100% settled with Condola.  She knew Lawrence was considering a move.  She referenced the move in the morning after so it was not something she forgot about in the moment.

In some ways, she might feel closer to him.  But in other ways, that great night of remembering why they clicked in the first place might help her have a happier view of that time in her life regardless of what eventually happens between them all.

[mrsbagnet]

12 hours ago, lasu said:

She kept extending the night, first the art walk (which when he walked away, I nearly died, I was absolutely gut punched and that shit wouldn't have been funny to me - I would have started crying on the spot I would have just felt so rejected, lol),

Oh my goodness, when he walked away and left her, I was so pissed. I think I yelled "Oh no, he didn't." He was gone just long enough to make her think he really left. Good comedic timing.

[purist]

This episode was so beautiful to look at. I adored it.

Really loved how the background noise at the restaurant cut out completely when Issa and Lawrence were talking very seriously about why they broke up. It was like they were totally absorbed in the conversation and each other. I think I actually held my breath during that scene.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, purist said:

This episode was so beautiful to look at. I adored it.

It was, wasn't it?  I already shouted out Natasha Rothwell for her writing in this, but I have to also give the director props ( I believe it was Ava Berkofsky who is also a cinematographer)  It was such a well directed episode and it was lovely to look at.  I especially loved this shot:

 

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 6/1/2020 at 11:19 PM, Amethyst said:

The unseen painting from the art walk has to factor in somewhere down the line.  There had to be a reason they didn't show it to the viewers, yet Lawrence ended up buying it.

Good point.  I was startled at the time when they didn't show us the painting, and you may be right about why.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, HBO was really late putting up the Wine Down for this episode but it's finally here:

 

[smartymarty]

I did not consider their evening a date in the romantic sense. Just two former girlfriend/boyfriend, now friends, getting together, with Lawrence wanting to revisit why their relationship had failed. We then saw how good they are together -- why they'd had a 5 year relationship in the first place. But it was so beautifully written, their maturity now to look back at the mistakes they both made. Lawrence didn't want it to end, inviting Issa into his apartment (even if for just 5 minutes more, but to show her how he's grown), and then Issa not wanting the evening to end, them spending the night together expressing their love to each other. Issa left in the morning with a renewed sense of her own agency. Yes, she and Lawrence had sex, but she participated in that fully knowing he was going to see Condola and fully knowing he's considering moving to SF. The two of them certainly got some closure on their old relationship, and time will tell whether they will go back to dating now that the issues that drove them apart no longer exist.

I don't think Lawrence has a "date" with Condola in the romantic sense, either. I got the sense (though only from him) that she also wants to figure out what went wrong in their relationship. I don't think she's pregnant. She only kept texting him because he initially said, yeah, I can see you tonight.