Blackfish (2013)

[GHScorpiosRule]

I finally got a chance to watch this last night, and it left me angry and disturbed and pissed off, AND guilty. SeaWorld and its executives can just fuck off and die a long, painful death already.

 

I feel guilty because I enjoyed the two Shamu shows I'd seen. Once as a kid in '82 when my parents took us to Disneyworld, and then as a college student, a group of us were given a private show (it was a conference we were all attending for journalism students in San Antonio, TX), and I remember wanting so badly to be the person Shamu sprayed water on. I was clueless, ignorant about where and how these beautiful and intelligent animals were caged.

 

And the part where they separated the babies from their mamas, and the mamas crying, had me in tears, and I'm not an overly emotional person, really. And blaming Dawn for her death?! The fuck?

 

And that one former trainer from Virginia, who said that what Tillikum did was not an aggressive attack. Really, dude?

 

And don't get me started on the tattooed diver, who in 1970, stole the babies, and then when they died, cut them open and filled them with rocks. Like, you want me to sympathize/feel sorry for you, because you feel guilty, but still committed such a horrific and atrocious act?!

 

 

[midge]

It was a wonderful/horrible documentary.  The one real positive is that this documentary really seems to be compelling people to take action.   A lot of documentaries may have that intention but it is never actually realized.  

 

And don't feel guilty.   I think Sea World did a great job of acting like (and making many of their employees believe) they are a conservation group who were "helping" the species.   Despicable.  

 

ETA:  since posting I was thinking about this movie - it's pretty haunting - and the one thing that I think astounded me the most (out of a lot of things) is that all of the "trainers"  got their jobs because they were good swimmers.  I have a perfect driving record and can parallel park like a demon, but I can't drive an 18 wheeler!  If anything deserved some better government regulation it's this.  Lord!   

Edited July 14, 2014 by midge

[Wiendish Fitch]

I feel guilty because I enjoyed the two Shamu shows I'd seen. Once as a kid in '82 when my parents took us to Disneyworld, and then as a college student, a group of us were given a private show (it was a conference we were all attending for journalism students in San Antonio, TX), and I remember wanting so badly to be the person Shamu sprayed water on. I was clueless, ignorant about where and how these beautiful and intelligent animals were caged.

 

 

Don't feel guilty, you were young and couldn't have known.

 

I thought Blackfish was an exquisitely made documentary, it could rival the work of Errol Morris. It was thoughtful, straightforward, and I never felt it was sensationalistic (which is why Michael Moore's movies rub me the wrong way). I'm not really an animal rights activist, but I am against the wasteful, impractical, and ultimately cruel imprisonment of animals for entertainment (I've come to hate circuses and zoos for the same reason).  The worst part? It's been proven that killer whales can live up to 100 years or more… living in the wild. But imprisoned, their life span is reduced to 35 years. I did feel terrible for those poor whales, and those poor trainers. They were essentially decent people, and didn't deserve to die the way they did. Sea World should be held accountable, and hopefully the captivity of killer whales can end.

 

And don't get me started on the tattooed diver, who in 1970, stole the babies, and then when they died, cut them open and filled them with rocks. Like, you want me to sympathize/feel sorry for you, because you feel guilty, but still committed such a horrific and atrocious act?!

 

 

Fair enough, but at least he feels some remorse, which is more than you can say for the suits at Sea World.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Wiendish Fitch

[CaughtOnTape]

I said this over at TWoP when I saw the movie and I'll say it here....

 

If I hear one more robot defending the practices of Sea World I may just lose my mind.  I don't need a degree in squat to be able to SEE that your damn tanks are TOO SMALL.....ya buncha dicks.  Don't try insulting my intelligence by telling me if I did that it would change that.

 

I will never take my children there.

 

I don't know how you can blame the trainer for what happened.  But the head trainer for Sea World who knowingly lied should be thrown in jail.  She's putting lives in danger so people can see a damn fish do a flip?  Are you serious right now?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I definitely am going to watch this again because I think in one of those scenes where the testimony of witnesses was typed out, there was a line about something being like 'raped' or something. I think It was what that Kelly person was saying. It wasn't clear.

 

And then there was the mother and fiancé of the guy from Loro Parque? How they tried to say his death was an accident, when they could feel beneath the sheet, what, God knows, had been done to him.

Edited July 14, 2014 by GHScorpiosRule

[jah1986]

This movie, every time I hear one of my friends is going to Orlando or San Diego etc. I beg them not to go to SeaWorld. I will certainly never go again. This film was heart breaking. Especially after watching another documentary about Killer Whales and just how social and intelligent they are. How each pod/family has its own language specific to that pod so they wouldn't just get along with other whales. And that they keep these great creatures in such small tanks and train by deprivation. And don't get me started on blaming the trainers for their own deaths. My seething hatred of SeaWorld just grows and grows. Glad there are others who have seen this movie.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I Googled and watched the documentary about Keiko, who also starred in Free Willy, which I also watched, and found myself asking, how much was Keiko and which parts were CGI? I know the finale, with Willy flying over the rock wall into the ocean was all CGI. Watching the movie and the documentary just broke my heart.  It was clear that the documentary was made while Keiko was still alive, because I read that he died of pneumonia after being released into the ocean in 2005, I think?

 

There just aren't enough words to express my anger over how he was ripped from his family when he was just a baby. At least there were some people who loved him enough to nurse him back to health, and that he gained in weight and size once he was put in the Oregon rehab. And how his virus cleared up. And how he started talking and flipping and playing.

 

I have to assume all the scenes of the kid actor sitting on and swimming with "Willy" was all CGI, that is, the Orca was CGI.

[CaughtOnTape]

I have to assume all the scenes of the kid actor sitting on and swimming with "Willy" was all CGI, that is, the Orca was CGI.

The last shot of the whale jumping over him was CGI.  I believe the animatronic whale was used when Jesse was interacting with Willy.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Thanks CaughtOnTape.  I tried to look up to find information, but no success.

[xls]

I went to Seaworld many years ago and enjoyed it but of course never thought about it. I never thought about how captive animals are living a life sentence.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

I went to Seaworld many years ago and enjoyed it but of course never thought about it. I never thought about how captive animals are living a life sentence.  

 

This was me. I also remember being VERY upset at not being able to have Shamu spray water all over me, and not being able to pet him/her? or touch them. Not until I saw this documentary and also the one on Keiko, did I learn how they had to perform to get fed. From Keiko's documentary itself, I learned how much he thrived, grew, got more healthy, not having to perform for others, but just be free to swim and eat and not have to be rewarded in the form of food.  I know that the one scene in "Free Willy" is probably CGI or animatronic, but the look on his face was just so sad, it broke my heart and brought me to tears. And then watching the Michael Jackson video of all those Orcas with their pods and families, flipping, swimming...so...happy. Gave me chills. Happy chills.

[DrSpaceman]

Two things I found most disturbing about this film, besides the obvious, were

As mentioned, basically to work there, just had to be a good swimmer. I assumed these were marine biologists OR had some type of college training, but no, just a good swimmer

At the end of the shows they would often RUN LOW OR RUN OUT OF FISH to give them for their tricks, which helped lead to the death/eating of the one trainer. Really, how cheap is sea world? I would think enough fish for the whales so they don't eat the trainers would be at the top of the list of things to be sure you have on hand for the shows.

[BatmanBeatles]

I always knew something wasn't right when I'd see the floppy dorsal fins of the whales. Blackfish confirmed it.

 

 

As mentioned, basically to work there, just had to be a good swimmer. I assumed these were marine biologists OR had some type of college training, but no, just a good swimmer

I grit my teeth when it showed the guides giving the tourists half baked answers to questions.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I've been watching this on Netflix...but I just bought the dvd. When I went to see if this had a FaceBook page, it does, and I can't tell you how many times I desk slapped my head when reading posts of people who think SeaWorld is a great company and they do more than the makers of this documentary to keep the Orcas safe and fed. How the money they get from breeding them to conservation or some such bullshit.

 

And that the greedy, exploitative, money seeking bastards, are the makers of this documentary. What's worse is that they believe the drivel they're posting.

[scarynikki12]

 

And that the greedy, exploitative, money seeking bastards, are the makers of this documentary

Because all documentary filmmakers are part of the 1%.  I thought everyone knew that?

 

The part that hit me hardest was at the beginning when the former whalenappers were recounting the experience.  The systematic stealing of baby Orcas was so common that the whale pods had developed a strategy to trick the boats into following the wrong group of adults.  That's some serious intelligence right there.  Then the stupid airplanes saw what they were doing and redirected the boats.  Of course, instant heartbreak came when the pod remained as witness to the stealing of their babies, crying out for them (likely the Orca equivalent of "Don't panic! We'll figure out how to save you! We'll get you back!"), and unable to make it better. 

 

The bit about each pod having their own language was really interesting.  It makes a lot of sense, though, as each pod will have different experiences than those in different areas of the world (ie, the one we saw with its strategy for dodging whalenappers versus a pod in an area of the world where whalenapping isn't a problem).  It reminded me of my primate class from college where we studied a community of snow monkeys that had been moved to Texas from Japan.  The group handled the move fine, adjusted to the heat and terrain like bosses, but developed new calls right away for threats like rattlesnakes that simply didn't exist in Japan.  My professor's wife specialized in primate languages and she made many recordings of these calls, took them back to Japan and played them for the snow monkeys that remained.  They understood that the calls were from their fellow monkeys, but they couldn't decipher them since that adaptation wasn't necessary (and they did the adorable confused head cock that animals can pull off so well). 

 

We as a species are the dominant one on the planet yet we refuse (on a grand scale) to respect and understand the animals we live with.  Whale experts tell us that these animals need to be in the open ocean, to have the freedom to explore and lives their lives yet SeaWorld pretends that the too small enclosures are just fine.  That one former trainer was clearly talking out of his ass and I wouldn't be surprised if we one day learned that he called his old bosses and promised to lie about the whale treatment in exchange for money (the same reason I think the head trainer was put on the stand).  There are videos of these incidents and it's clear in each that the human does not deserve the pain and suffering.  That one woman survived through sheer luck (the other trainer's brilliant idea to open the grate to the dominant Orca) and that one man likely would have died had he not had the history of scuba diving and the net when he was finally let go (and the image of him scrambling to get away as the whale started coming back for more scared me more than Jaws because this was a real animal and not a machine).  It's also very telling how SeaWorld has approached the deaths.  They film freaking everything yet the video of the guy who was killed after hours is non-existent?  No way.  I think that man's death may have been the most horrific and, since the number of potential witnesses can be counted on one hand, it's a lot easier to destroy the tape and pay them off. 

 

I liked how the other former trainers approached the situations.  They acknowledged that Tilly may very well have seemed playful in the first moments but there is no mistaking aggression and the fault of the deaths is on SeaWorld and their ilk.  I'm glad it was expressly stated that there are not recorded cases of Orcas killing humans in the wild, and that they are even friendlier than in captivity.  I don't know if Tilly's aggression is so far gone that putting him in the wild would fix anything but I think we owe it to him and the humans he killed to try.  If he's given freedom, a place to explore and just live the rest of his life, he may very well relax and never bother another human again.  And, even if his aggression remains, he's unlikely to encounter another human in such a situation anyway so who cares?  And let all the others go too.  Just seeing the pod at the end, with their straight and proud dorsal fins, was such a marked contrast to Tilly and the others and really drove home why, aside from the threat to humans, they should be back in the ocean.

[BatmanBeatles]

Every time I saw babies taken from their mothers I thought of Dumbo.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Out of curiosity, for those of you who have the dvd or blu ray, are there any special features? It would be an added bonus, since I'm getting the blu ray, which should arrive tomorrow.

 

I've seen this twice now, and the second time around, I had to cover my ears when the Orca mamas cried as their babies were taken away from them. I've developed a burning hatred for SeaWorld and all its executives. And that one idiot former trainer David something? from Virginia, who had the gall to say that Tillum's attack on Dawn wasn't an aggressive act. Putz.

[paramitch]

I'm a longtime Seattle resident on and off, and living here locally around these animals is perhaps the best lesson ever for why orcas need to be kept in the wild. In 1999, my Mom came up to visit me from Florida. I took her out on a (very carefully selected, eco-friendly) whale-watching trip, hoping we'd see one of our three pods of orcas out in the San Juans.

 

Well, we got ALL THREE, nearly 100 whales on a misty cold morning -- magnificent orcas totally coming up to the boat (the power was off and they just came right over to us) -- babies waving flippers, old orcas, young ones in their prime, all talking, spyhopping, splashing, squealing. It was incredibly moving and joyful, and amazing to get to experience a "superpod" of orcas and it's really rare to get to do so.

 

And the one thing that you get immediately from that experience is, for Sea World audience people (and as "Blackfish" illustrated), the fact that all the orca dorsal fins are so proud and tall, these huge sails over 6 and 7 feet high, and not curled over and so tragic as they are in captivity. The other striking element is the enormous range in ages -- you see babies, you see 90-year-old matriarchs, 50 year-old bulls, etc., whereas in captivity they live 20-30 years, and many many babies simply don't make it at all.

 

It's tough for me where Sea World is concerned because experiences there as a child brought me a lot of joy and directly affected my love for sea creatures. But I am now a proponent for their closure, and for landlocked folks to learn about sea life from quality aquariums and coastal visits instead. And I have to note -- I know diehard folks are against all captivity for animals, but I'm not. I am still not anti-zoo or anti-aquarium. There are world-class zoos and aquariums where the habitats are truly maintained at levels the creatures would never hope to inhabit in the wild, and I do feel that in moderation, they can be invaluable for inspiring a love and sympathy for animals. But not for the largest mammals like orcas, who are used to traveling hundreds of miles per day in open sea and who spend their lives in the companionship of their families, speaking that specific dialect all their lives.

 

So, Sea World and what it's done to orcas... I think its days are numbered. 

 

As far as "Blackfish," a marine biologist friend of mine told me that it's been widely discussed for years now in the expert community on orcas that Tillikum was known to be mentally ill, and to have been bullied to the breaking point since his handlers simply didn't seem capable of caring about or understanding whale socializations and hierarchies. But his fate is somehow even crueler -- this incredibly social animal who needs open ocean, family interaction and stimulation to thrive and live is now in solitary confinement in a tiny tank. And that really breaks my heart. I hate that he's killed trainers but as an animal I hold him pretty blameless. He acted according to his nature.

 

"Blackfish" certainly continues to inspire movment, action and change and that's really extraordinary for a documentary (I would also add that so does "The Cove"). The ironic part of all this is that "our" orcas here in Seattle, meanwhile, have had their own struggles. Many have continued to be poisoned from PCBs that roll over across the ocean from China and move up the food chain to lodge in the fat cells (so, horribly, the orcas only die when they need to live off their own blubber), and they've semipermanently changed their migration patterns due to a lack of salmon and sustenance, so they take much larger trips and now tend to stay out farther outside the San Juans. In 1995-2000 I used to see the orcas from the ferries to and from the Peninsula and into the San Juans on a fairly regular basis. Now sightings can be years between and they're rarely close in to shore like that anymore. We humans do tend to reap what we sow.

Edited November 21, 2014 by paramitch

[GHScorpiosRule]

paramitch

 

Your story of seeing the Orcas has me feeling very jealous! I live in MD, where you guessed it, no way for me to such beauty. One of these days, though, I will go where they are free to see them!

 

And it's like you're in my head, regarding the rest of your post!

[Bruinsfan]

And I have to note -- I know diehard folks are against all captivity for animals, but I'm not. I am still not anti-zoo or anti-aquarium. There are world-class zoos and aquariums where the habitats are truly maintained at levels the creatures would never hope to inhabit in the wild, and I do feel that in moderation, they can be invaluable for inspiring a love and sympathy for animals. But not for the largest mammals like orcas, who are used to traveling hundreds of miles per day in open sea and who spend their lives in the companionship of their families, speaking that specific dialect all their lives.

This is my take on it too. I'm not automatically against zoos or aquariums, but I think in the case of orcas the quality of life in captivity is so much worse than in the wild, and we are so incapable of effectively providing for their needs, that the practice should be ended.

 

I don't know what can be done for or about Tilikum, though. We have a creature who was snatched from his family as the equivalent of a toddler and poorly socialized under brutal conditions - I have no confidence that he would be able to care for himself in the wild, or that he wouldn't present a danger to wild populations of orca he might come in contact with.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

SeaWorld Continues to Breed

 

My mind can't wrap around the fact that these assholes breed them as young as six!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Bumping the thread up to ask:

 

Has anyone read John Hargrove's new book, Beneath the Surface that just came out?  I think the subtitle is something like Beyond Blackfish.  He was on The Daily Show last week talking about it and what he saw during his 14 years.

 

All I can say is SeaWorld can just go and FUCK themselves. That is all.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

THIS is why I love when the whale goes after the humans in the film Orca.

As I recall, they mate with one for life.

Thanks to them he lost said mate and unborn child.

Oh yes, FUCK YOU Sea World!

[midge]

A woman I work with just got back from vacation "We went to Florida and did SeaWorld!". 

 

It took everything I had not to start screaming at her.   

 

I was never a fan of whales in captivity ( or animal circuses, and IMO I'm only OK wiht Zoos that can prove that they are doing actual conservation) but this documentary sent me over the edge.  Total rage about the whole thing. 

[Bruinsfan]

Sad to admit I did go to Seaworld back in the 80s before I was conscious of all the issues with Orca captivity, and was wowed by Shamu and Baby Shamu.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, after watching the interview with John Hargrove on The Daily Show, I went back to watch Blackfish.  And this time I was able to make out what that bitch of a head trainer at SeaWorld said when being questioned by the OSHA attorney. He or she (not clear if the OSHA attorney was male or female since they were blanked out), asked if Tilly was capable of this type of behavior (that led to him killing Dawn). 

 

She replied (paraphrasing) that:

 

I know that a man/you(?) is/are capable of rape. All men are capable of being rapists. Not sure about the first part of the second sentence, but the judge stepped in and said both statements would be stricken from the record.  And when the doors open, she comes waltzing out with a shit-eating grin on her face. I wanted to snatch her bald.

Edited April 10, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[midge]

Just saw an add from Sea World - "Learn the facts"  and a website.  This documentary really has impacted them, but they are trying to fight back.  

 

Creeps. 

[Bruinsfan]

Yes, "learn the facts," but only from the marine biologists/former lifeguards they employ, not any of the ones who have experience studying orcas in the wild. Or former trainers who've quit in disgust over their treatment. Because clearly, anyone who doesn't currently make a living thanks to Sea World dollars can't be trusted to tell the public the truth.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Hey y'all.  CNN will be re-airing Blackfish tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. EST.

[beetnemesis]

I have watched this movie. Really moving and emotional documentary! these animals should be left in the wild,not locked away to perform for our enjoyment! its just wrong!!!! 10/10

[CaughtOnTape]

I watched this again after Sea World's announcement this week that they would be ending Orca shows.  

 

I won't put anything past those dickheads and am curious to see what they'll do with the Orca's they have now since there's no way they can put them in the wild and expect they'll survive.

[Bruinsfan]

It seems like they're not ending the orca shows, just revamping them to involve less obviously fake/trained behaviors on the part of the orcas, and only in the San Diego facility. Which I suppose is incremental progress, as is that California bill forbidding them from breeding captive animals.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[GHScorpiosRule]

Bumping this topic up to let you know that this documentary is back on Netflix's rotation.

As enraging and painful it was to watch the first time, I may just rewatch it again.

[paramitch]

Just a note to keep Blackfish relevant -- Tokitae, the orca taken from her Puget Sound family (L Pod) 53 years ago and kept in Miami Seaquarium as "Lolita" died suddenly recently.

She was finally scheduled to be released, so it's doubly infuriating. There are even concerns that she may have been stealthily euthanized.

Orcas are highly social creatures with a sophisticated linguistic system. At the Seaquarium, Tokitae was separated from her family and then kept in solitary confinement in the smallest orca tank in the world.

Orcas in the wild can live into their 90s (especially female orcas) so she should still have had many years left, even in the shortened lifespans of captive orcas.

I've been a supporter of her return so it was incredibly sad. They also handled it with their usual TOTAL lack of respect for her remains, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/18/tokitae-killer-whale-miami-seaquarium-dies-captivity

https://blog.humanesociety.org/2023/08/remembering-the-life-of-tokitae-aka-lolita-the-orca-whale.html

https://www.idahostatesman.com/opinion/readers-opinion/article278746194.html

https://www.kuow.org/stories/tokitae-s-last-song-a-celebration-of-life-for-captive-orca

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/orca-tokitaes-necropsy-shocks-lummi-nation-as-they-work-to-bring-remains-home/

Edited September 20, 2023 by paramitch

[GHScorpiosRule]

17 hours ago, paramitch said:

Just a note to keep Blackfish relevant -- Tokitae, the orca taken from her Puget Sound family (L Pod) 53 years ago and kept in Miami Seaquarium as "Lolita" died suddenly recently.

She was finally scheduled to be released, so it's doubly infuriating. There are even concerns that she may have been stealthily euthanized.

Orcas are highly social creatures with a sophisticated linguistic system. At the Seaquarium, Tokitae was separated from her family and then kept in solitary confinement in the smallest orca tank in the world.

This is so infuriating to read. And now I don't feel guilty for the recent articles I read and videos I saw of Orcas knocking up against boats of stoopid hoomans. Don't know if they would have eaten them had they fallen into the water, but, well, I don't care.