Recurring or Non-Recurring Defense Attorneys: The Loved and the Loathed

[Ailianna]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t really recall the details of “Identity,” when she returned, minus her dreads! Which I loved! Something about her elderly client killing the guy who stole his savings by stealing his identity or something.

This is the only episode in all 20 years of L&O that kind of makes me wish the killer had gotten away with it, but then we wouldn't get his great speech at the end.  It's the elderly Lonnie Jackson (no, I didn't have to look up his name), who had lived in his home since he was home from WWII and owned it clear, and a computer savvy guy who lost his job and was trying to hide it from his family stole Lonnie's identity and used it to take out a mortgage on the house, but then never made any payments (of course) and since Lonnie obviously also didn't make the payments, he lost his house.  He then tracked the guy down and shot him.

My favorite part, aside from the fact that Lonnie Jackson lived an honorable life for 80 years, was victimized and driven from his own home (which is why I find so him sympathetic), is that the DA and police never figured out how he tracked down the guy who stole his identity, because they couldn't make any kind of connection.  He gives them a great speech about how he used "80 years of charm" to get the information.  He called the internet company, and sweet-talked all the information out of the customer service people, bit by bit.  It's a great episode.  I also like how Shambala got involved--originally Lonnie had a friend who was a lawyer (and clearly just as old and not a criminal lawyer), who wasn't very good, and Shambala sent him off to the library to do research until the trial was over.

[Spartan Girl]

I didn't hate Shambala Green. I did like how, even though she represented Carla Lowenstein, she helped take down the abusive husband.

But I really hated her tactics in "Sanctuary". I was on Ben's side when he said he was sick of people hiding behind lame excuses to avoid the consequences of their actions.

[Prairie Rose]

Not only was Danielle Melnick the worst defense attorney in the L&O universe - she somehow managed to become a judge!! Scary.

It was always fun to see Randy Dworkin. Patti Lupone's Ruthie Miller was also a treat.

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Not only was Danielle Melnick the worst defense attorney in the L&O universe - she somehow managed to become a judge!! Scary.

It was always fun to see Randy Dworkin. Patti Lupone's Ruthie Miller was also a treat.

I HATED that Chicago Justice showed Melnick as a judge, that was so stupid, Melnick was totally unqualified to be a judge, she should’ve been disbarred after Open Season. And how the fuck did she wind up in Chicago? Chicago Justice was just not a good show, I liked Peter Stone but the show just didn’t really work.

[Prairie Rose]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Chicago Justice was just not a good show, I liked Peter Stone but the show just didn’t really work.

I felt for both the character and the actor, who didn't fare any better on SVU.

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, Prairie Rose said:

I felt for both the character and the actor, who didn't fare any better on SVU.

SVU just had no idea what to do with Peter, he had some good moments on both shows, but like I say Chicago Justice just wasn’t a good idea (how can they have a show about justice on the same franchise where Chicago PD breaks the law and commits heinous acts each week, and we’re supposed to believe Stone and company are on the same side as Voight and his merry minions?) and SVU just didn’t seem to know what to do with him and the way they trashed him in the last episode was so fucking disgraceful. 

[Prairie Rose]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

SVU just had no idea what to do with Peter, he had some good moments on both shows, but like I say Chicago Justice just wasn’t a good idea (how can they have a show about justice on the same franchise where Chicago PD breaks the law and commits heinous acts each week, and we’re supposed to believe Stone and company are on the same side as Voight and his merry minions?) and SVU just didn’t seem to know what to do with him and the way they trashed him in the last episode was so fucking disgraceful. 

He had the misfortune of coming in right after Barba (whose own character had been neutered and declawed), and that SVU stans were mercilessly trolling the actor on Twitter. It wasn't a good situation.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

He had the misfortune of coming in right after Barba (whose own character had been neutered and declawed), and that SVU stans were mercilessly trolling the actor on Twitter. It wasn't a good situation.

Oh yes I remember it well, there are some real nutbags in the SVU fanbase who really threw a fit over Stone. He did have the misfortune of coming in replacing the ultra-popular Barba, but Barba had been watered down so much I wasn’t really sad to see him go, I found Stone to be a breath of fresh air at the start, unfortunately at the end they did to him what they did to Barba.

[Prairie Rose]

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes I remember it well, there are some real nutbags in the SVU fanbase who really threw a fit over Stone. He did have the misfortune of coming in replacing the ultra-popular Barba, but Barba had been watered down so much I wasn’t really sad to see him go, I found Stone to be a breath of fresh air at the start, unfortunately at the end they did to him what they did to Barba.

Barba remains my favorite SVU ADA before TIIC neutered him, had him defer to Olivia in everything (like every other SVU character, really) and had him pull the plug on a baby (!!!). I know it was Raul Esparza's choice to leave, but I still resent the fact that they ruined what had been such a fresh, interesting character. But that's really a rant for the SVU thread.

Anyway, I really didn't buy Philip Winchester as a junior Michael Moriarty, other than the fact that they both have/had similar soft voices. I liked Peter OK, but given all the grief he had in the DA's office he probably should have stayed in professional baseball!!

[Xeliou66]

Just now, Prairie Rose said:

Barba remains my favorite SVU ADA before TIIC neutered him, had him defer to Olivia in everything (like every other SVU character, really) and had him pull the plug on a baby (!!!). I know it was Raul Esparza's choice to leave, but I still resent the fact that they ruined what had been such a fresh, interesting character. But that's really a rant for the SVU thread.

Anyway, I really didn't buy Philip Winchester as a junior Michael Moriarty, other than the fact that they both have/had similar soft voices. I liked Peter OK, but given all the grief he had in the DA's office he probably should have stayed in professional baseball!!

Agreed, Barba is my favorite SVU ADA but it really sucked how they neutered his personality and had him become a Benson Bot. But yeah that’s really a discussion for the SVU forum.

[WendyCR72]

Hey, all! I get the franchise sort of bleeds into each other, but if you want to discuss Barba or Peter Stone at length, please do so in the SVU forum. Thanks!

[Prairie Rose]

I wonder how Peter Stone would have fared if he had been on the mothership - if the mothership had been on the air then. Probably better, since the mothership had always been (and hopefully will still be!) not so focused on the personal lives. It would have been fun to see him work with Jack.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

I wonder how Peter Stone would have fared if he had been on the mothership - if the mothership had been on the air then. Probably better, since the mothership had always been (and hopefully will still be!) not so focused on the personal lives. It would have been fun to see him work with Jack.

Yeah he probably would’ve fared better on the Mothership since it isn’t dragged down by personal crap. It was fun to see him interact with Jack in his first SVU appearance. The Mothership is just so superior to SVU, largely because of the lack of personal soapy crap, and I hope it stays that way.

Back to the topic of defense lawyers, who are some of the ones you would like to see again? Dworkin would be my number 1 choice to see return, he’s just fantastic. I would kind of like to see Norman Rothenberg return, he was one of those sort of sleazy smug elite type lawyers that it was fun to dislike, and I would like to see him return. Really there are a lot of lawyers I would love to see return.

[Prairie Rose]

Dworkin and Ruthie Miller, for sure. Shambala Green would be great, but Lorraine Touissant is on The Equalizer on CBS and probably not available.

[katie9918]

19 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

Not only was Danielle Melnick the worst defense attorney in the L&O universe - she somehow managed to become a judge!! Scary.

It was always fun to see Randy Dworkin. Patti Lupone's Ruthie Miller was also a treat.

What the hell? MELNICK became a judge?

 

If that kind of BS is happening IRL, no wonder.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, katie9918 said:

What the hell? MELNICK became a judge?

 

If that kind of BS is happening IRL, no wonder.

Yep, Melnick was shown as a judge on Chicago Justice, and yeah I thought it was an absolute joke.

[Prairie Rose]

She sure was!! Judge Melnick was in the pilot of CJ, and Richard Brooks as Paul Robinette appeared in the next episode.

If this image doesn't scare L&O fans, I don't know what will!! 😬😵😂

Edited February 20, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

She sure was!! Judge Melnick was in the pilot of CJ, and so was Richard Brooks as Paul Robinette.

If this image doesn't scare L&O fans, I don't know what will!! 😬😵😂

Robinette was in a different episode of CJ than Melnick, just for the record. It was cool to see Robinette and Peter Stone interact. But Melnick as a judge, really stupid.

[Prairie Rose]

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Robinette was in a different episode of CJ than Melnick, just for the record. It was cool to see Robinette and Peter Stone interact. But Melnick as a judge, really stupid.

I stand corrected. Melnick was in the pilot (entitled "Fake") and Robinette was in the second episode, " Uncertainty Principle ". Thanks!!

[katie9918]

Now I’m more afraid for season 21. 😟

[Prevailing Wind]

The place where Melnick is judge (Chicago?) Are the judges elected or appointed? It's easy to see her as an elected judge. People are not as discriminating as we'd hope when it comes to elections. Where I live, a guy was elected governor because of "name recognition."  The fact that his name was so familiar because he resigned from Congress before being brought up on ethics charges was immaterial. People had heard his name, so they voted for him.  I can see that happening with Melnick.

[Halting Hex]

How the heck is Danielle a judge in Chicago?  She probably hasn't even been admitted to the Illinois bar, much less ever practiced there.  I know, I know, you can get a judgeship in Chicago by slipping $20 to the right people, but I'm told those days are past…

Chiming in to give some love to Charles Garnett, who fights through McCoy's tricks to get Sebastian Roche off the hook in "Patsy".  (His other outright win, "Denial", owes a lot to poor Hal Munson taking the bullet for the kids, but Garnett did keep them from turning on each other, much though Jack tried.)

Jeffrey DeMunn's Norman Rothenburg was masterful in his debut, "Black Tie", deliberately going to the appelate court so he could set a firm precedent. That law actually was changed:  I forget which McCoy episode specifically said "the police cannot use an outside agent to obtain evidence that they could not get themselves", but that's the law nowadays.  (Thankfully, IMO.)

(And if Norman had lost, who cares?  I'm not shedding any tears over Spike's mom.  Even if Caroline Lagerfelt did look lovely, back in the day.)

Unfortunately, all of his returns were less than he had been.  Flailing away in largely hopeless cases.  Disappointing.

And lots and lots of love to Dennis Boutsakiris, of course.  Whether he's specifically Al Archer, or not.  Making the "TV made me do it" defense in "Castoff" just so it could be specifically shot down?  That takes guts; nobody likes to lose.  And I think he made the case for "racism is a mental illness" very effectively in "Prejudice".  Jack's "wah-wah, but then we don't get to punish people!  Who cares about stopping crime?" summation was crap, IMO.

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Chiming in to give some love to Charles Garnett, who fights through McCoy's tricks to get Sebastian Roche off the hook in "Patsy".

Roche will always be "C-Square" to me.

[Prairie Rose]

2 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Roche will always be "C-Square" to me.

That's MISTER C-Square! 😉😂

[Prevailing Wind]

57 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

That's MISTER C-Square! 😉😂

I couldn't remember if Stone called him "Mr. C-Square" or just "Mr. Square."

[Halting Hex]

7 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Roche will always be "C-Square" to me.

Honestly, I'd forgotten that.  In my defense, I always skip that episode.  (I like Season 4, but both that and "Sweeps" in the first three?  Yeesh.)

[Prairie Rose]

I also liked the maternal-looking Helen Brolin (Maria Gucci). She tried to defend Chris Politt in "Born Bad", tried to save Victor Garber's character from the death penalty in "Savages", to name just a couple of examples.