The Haves And The Have Nots - General Discussion

[bichonblitz]

So Wyatt's sister is dead, lying in a pool of blood upstairs and he is in the kitchen outing Jeffrey about being gay and in love with him, blah blah blah. Yeah we get it already, Jeffrey is gay. Everybody knows it. Can we move on now and get back to grieving? 

[Brooklynista]

I need a favor from you guys. If a tragedy should befall my family, please oh please make sure Jeffrey isn't there to pet me the way he pet Wyatt.

[Bill C.]

We got you covered, Brooklynista...though as long as you're nowhere near Wyatt I don't think anybody would mention the petting.

 

And Amanda's murder seemingly only has two possible culprits: Professor Rapist (who was indeed the guy Candace called in this episode, right?), in order to shut Amanda up, or Quincy--who would have done it to hurt Jim, for his screwing around with Candace.  (Distant third choice: Celine, after losing her mind.)  But the mechanics of it are shady at best, even by Passions standards.  And it feels like it should be Quincy, if exactly for the reasons selhars mentioned above; if he goes down, he takes Veronica with him.  But with this fakakta show...

[Scootman]

 

(Distant third choice: Celine, after losing her mind.)

    But Celine would have had to killed her, left, calmly returned to the home at 6 a.m. and almost get raped by Wyatt without losing her shit.

 

But Professor Rapey is an excellent candidate. It would be fun if Katherine and Candace buried the hatchet just long enough to deal with him.

 

I think a future storyline will go back to Candi telling spineless Jeffrey that to get Veronica off his back, they had to break hers. Her main weakness is her addiction, so I wonder if they'll try to knock her off the wagon.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Scootman

[selhars]

Her main weakness is her addiction, so I wonder if they'll try to knock her off the wagon.

 

That would be great, but Veronica isn't dumb...so they'd really have to be smart about doing that. NOT like Langdon who tried, but ultimately wasn't up to the challenge. Candace IS up to it. But I'm sick of Ronnie as it is -- so I really don't know if I want her off the wagon, I couldn't take the overacting. I just want her taken down.

Edited February 12, 2015 by selhars

[Joimiaroxeu]

First of all, since it was allegedly a murder, this opens the opportunity for Jim and David to try to pin it on Candace.

 

How dumb is Benny that he doesn't know someone just out of law school in Savannah, GA, doesn't make a quarter of a million dollars right off the bat, much less be given a deluxe apartment. For sure though, Candace is going to try to use Benny's new and improved business to launder her money. You could almost see the gears turning in her brain.

 

Jim was in shock but he could have at least offered to give the woman who drove him home some gas money.

 

And Jim, somewhat surprisingly, came clean to David about why he had been MIA.

The speed of that development really surprised me too. I guess Jim and David will be working together to make Candace pay somehow. They'd be better off leaving Queen Bee Veronica out of it though.

 

(who by the end of the episode seems to have finally gotten it into her head that he's gay, but is still dragging her feet)

I'm still not convinced that a) she didn't already know, and b) that she isn't being paid by Ronnie to try to "turn" Jeffery straight. If so, Veronica must be paying her extremely well because Melissa really hung in there in the face of multiple humiliations all in the same day. She's a cute, seemingly smart girl from a good family so I don't why she'd need to be running after a guy who clearly is not playing for her team.

 

Veronica, Wyatt, and especially Celine--were all turned the fuck up for some weird reason.  It was really, really bizarre.

Because two of them are arguably the worst actors on the show, IMO. I don't what's going on with Veronica though. They seem to be trying to turn her into the star of the show.

 

Wyatt's coping mechanism, enhanced by booze, was to basically lash out at everybody--at first in the name of his pain over losing his sister, but then he just became a dick about it.  Right down to picking on Jeffery about his feelings for him.

Well, we already knew that Wyatt's a mean drunk. His behavior with Jeffery seemed about right to me even though it was awful to watch. I just hope we're not going to be treated to what the daytime soaps like to call "grief sex".

 

Imagine CANDACE having that information.

Yep, this is heading toward a massive showdown of the two wannabe HBICs. It'll be like the HIghlanders: there can be only one!

 

just how the HELL DID she get him out

Greased a few palms? Played a few blackmail cards? But I agree, that's one of a gazillion plot holes TP might want to consider closing. Right now it's just barely believable that she has the kind of power she seems to have. Her husband's a state judge and she's basically a lady who lunches. It's not as if she's got Oprah or Michelle Obama's juice. (Or does she? It'd be amazing to find out that Ronnie's some huge multi-state crime lord masquerading as a socialite.)

 

Professor Rapist

That's who my money's on. Bet we'll find out that Amanda actually was pregnant as a result of the rape.

 

All the overacted histrionics aside, this was a decent episode. TP seems to have learned something about using suspense to building story arcs instead of just clomping along from one scene to the next. He still needs to work on the circular and repetitive dialogue.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[bichonblitz]

How long has it been since we have even seen Professor rapist? That whole story line was dropped so why bring him back now. I hope it's not him that shot Amanda becuase if it is then this show really can't get any worse. Amanda committing suicide is much more believable. 

[Bill C.]

Amanda bought her gun in theory to go after the Professor, crazy as she was.  And if he was the man Candace called about a job/front in this episode, he's being brought back to near the forefront shortly--though that could still be a red herring if it happens.

 

Having said that, though this could bleed over into so damn ignorant territory: whomever it was that killed Amanda had to

1. get into the Cryer house at some point either during or after Katheryn's party;
2. wait until everybody was asleep--also, presumably, for Warlock and the Atlanta Falcons to finish kidnapping Jim--and for Amanda to get done eeny-meenying around the place so they could kill her;
3. and then get out of the house without being seen by Wyatt, who was awakened by the gunshot.  Without, apparently, going out her bedroom window (until shown otherwise).

 

We've already seen Quincy teleporting into people's houses--he got into Hanna's back in the middle of S1/2, and Veronica and David's house at the beginning of this season.  But we can't rule out the Prof, not yet.

 

I'm still not convinced that a) she didn't already know, and b) that she isn't being paid by Ronnie to try to "turn" Jeffery straight. If so, Veronica must be paying her extremely well because Melissa really hung in there in the face of multiple humiliations all in the same day. She's a cute, seemingly smart girl from a good family so I don't why she'd need to be running after a guy who clearly is not playing for her team.

 

After the bit two or three episodes back where she basically quoted Veronica verbatim, I think we're all of a mind that Melissa is/was indeed a plant.  But, considering how hard Veronica's tried to keep Jeffery's orientation a secret and (more importantly) her need to manipulate all suckers, I imagine Melissa was probably just told that he was really shy or not interested in sex and he needed to be "brought out of his shell" or something.  And whatever she'd get out of it (marrying into a powerful political family?) would be a bonus.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Bill C.

[selhars]

I nate it when soap opera characters have conversations and say things that people would have or say in real life. Like when they answer a phone and say the person name who is calling. WHO does that in real life? But anyway....

 

I suppose it's minor pet peeve when you think about the MAJOR things that are wrong with this show but it just bothers me that everyone asks stupid questions loud/ For example, every one who knows Jeffrey is gay, asks Melissa "Why are you here?" or "What are you doing here?" ----- what do you THINK she's there for? His beard. DUH! David of course is disgusted by Veronica's manipulations. But Langdon and Wyatt questions about it were stupid. It's just dumb.

 

As opposed to Jim's begging the woman at the bus stop for a ride...OVER and over again, and again. That was stupid and painful. The conversation in the car wasn't well written either. That is NOT how that conversation would have gone in real life. This show lets characters go on waay to long in conversations where they each don't know what the other is talking about.

 

Now...after all her outbursts and the fight ... surely NOW Celine is fired right? How does she possibly stay their maid now? I guess we'll find out.

 

I really don't like that Amanda's death is a murder. 

[selhars]

I'm soooo glad TP faked us out with the murder -- and that Amanda's death really is going to be a suicide.....(for now)

 

I DO wonder if there's be a formal autopsy though....and that "after further consideration" the evidence won't "suggest' foul play. Perhaps Kathryn's comments which about blaming Jim because Amanda wasn't committed could come into play. Like I said I hope it DOES stay a suicide, but we'll see....

 

Loved Kathryn....her monologue about how she fell for Jim -- THAT was good....and when she attacked Celine....I was thinking, "You go girl" And he revelation that Celine has had TWO kids by Jim....damn.

 

-- The woman who gave her care to Benny...What?

[TVForever]

I'm usually good at guessing plot turns, so none of this really shocked me. Although I have to admit, I've suspected for some time that Celine was going to turn out to be Amanda's biological mother. Turns out I was part right- she does have children with Jim, but it turned out to be 2 never before mentioned sons. Well, okay.

By the way, is Tika Sumpter pregnant? She looks different in the eps this season, but I cant quite place it. Then I realized in this ep, she's been mostly covered-wearing a robe, sitting at a table, stuff like that. Anybody hear anything?

[bichonblitz]

I'm usually good at guessing plot turns, so none of this really shocked me. Although I have to admit, I've suspected for some time that Celine was going to turn out to be Amanda's biological mother. Turns out I was part right- she does have children with Jim, but it turned out to be 2 never before mentioned sons. Well, okay.

 

Jim met one of the kids, a son, last season. He didn't give a shit about him and that storyline went nowhere. My question is why would Jim get Celine pregnant once and then be so stupid to not use protection or get a freakin vasectomy so it doesn't happen again, with Celine or anybody else he's boning for that matter. So Celine has two kids with this mega wealthy judge and she's still working a a housekeeper. What the What??? She needs to take some lessons from Candy Cane. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by bichonblitz

[TVForever]

Thanks, bichonblitz, I must have missed that episode. And you're right. Why would a man in Cryer's position allow himself to impregnate a mistress at all, let alone twice? His reaction when he thought Candace was pregnant was more appropriate (really angry). With Celine, he allows her to continue working as the family maid and treats her with contempt. This is a woman who could bring his political career to a screeching halt, and he treats her like crap. And if Katherine knew about this, why on earth would she have allowed this woman to remain in her house? It feels like this plot twist was thrown in last minute, although I still think that having Celine be Amanda's bio mom would have explained so much and made for better drama, since we know all the players. Off screen sons? Not so much.

[Brooklynista]

I need a scene showing Benny going to the doctor to ask about the new personalities he's acquired since his accident.  Now he waffles between straight thug and overgrown toddler.

 

"Tee Hee mom, I have a surprise for you."  Grow up.

[selhars]

This is a woman who could bring his political career to a screeching halt, and he treats her like crap. And if Katherine knew about this, why on earth would she have allowed this woman to remain in her house? It feels like this plot twist was thrown in last minute,

 

 It's been pretty clear for a while that we're supposed to believe that Kathryn has thought this was the best way to protect her beloved  family name -- AND at least in the beginning decades ago -- she did love him. She's often spoken of all the affairs Jim had, but having the kids with Celine, and Celine being there in the house everyday is what broke the camels back for her. Now, I never have thought anyone would  -- ONCE THEY KNOW -- about the affair and kids would let the woman stay for ANY reason! If you're paying Celine anyway -- pay her and send her on her way....but have her in your house everyday? But I always have thought that the way TP has written Kathryn's character.....that her actions didn't match all blustery talk, and our powerful family bravado. That never has worked for me.

 

I still think the Celine character can just go. TP has said she will be more involved, and since we have met her oldest kid with Jim...that COULD be plot line later. But I never have liked the Cline character...so she and her kids can stay peripheral and minor for all I care.

 

Also did you notice that sometimes cops were in the room and sometimes not. Were cops in the room when Kathryn was talking about Jim. They SHOULD have been, because that was before the DA came down and said it was murder.....So Kathryn has said all this...also.....in real life not TP-land I think at least ONE campaign person would have been there, or SOME kind of trusted advisor like a chief or staff, etc. But whatever.....

 

 

I need a scene showing Benny going to the doctor to ask about the new personalities he's acquired since his accident.  Now he waffles between straight thug and overgrown toddler.

 

I'm not thrilled with his character either. Clearly something MIGHT be in the offing with Candy and owning the seized towing company/warehouse. And MAYBE this woman might show up again. AT FIRST, I thought that car might be Jeffrery's that she wanted moved.

 

Oh, and did JIM hear Wyatt say Veronica had Jeffrery's car....He should have if he'd been standing there. But I suppose we already know we're in store for..."What did you say".... "What do you mean" "What did you say" conversation....I hope Wyatt DOES continue to spill the beans. We do see that they struggle over the bottle of alcohol.

Edited February 18, 2015 by selhars

[Joimiaroxeu]

How has Katheryn not had Celine killed already? And now on top of everything else, we find out Jim probably committed statutory rape with Katheryn when she was underage. Oh FFS. That clown's closet is so jam-packed with skeletons he shouldn't be able to run for county dogcatcher much less a state governor with aspirations on the White House.

 

Oh look, they're throwing yet another woman at Benny. Whatever happened to that church girl Hannah tried to fix him up with, or the nurse when he was in the hospital? It's starting to seem like maybe the actor can't pull off a convincing romantic relationship with a woman. NTTAWWT...

 

It's not believable to me that Candace hadn't watched TV or checked Twitter to know that Amanda had died. Yeah she's self-absorbed but someone with all her schemes wouldn't be out-of-touch with the real world for very long. At the very least she would have wanted to check out the fallout from the big press conference she knew Jim would miss. That was funny though when she ghosted on Landon like Batman.

 

It never made sense to me that Jim was clearly paying Celine either hush money or child support for an adult kid. Now it sort of works if the 2nd kid is still under 18 but I wonder if there's been a DNA test or if Jim's name is on the birth certificate. Anyways, bringing in the grown son first was a nice feint, TP. <golf claps>

 

So Celine has two kids with this mega wealthy judge and she's still working a a housekeeper.

She doesn't appear to do much real work. It looks like she's so desperate to be in Jim's vicinity that she's willing to put on a maid's uniform and be treated like the help. Sad but it must pay well. (Plus, "working" gives her a legitimate way to explain to the IRS where her money comes from.)

Edited February 18, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[TVForever]

I need a scene showing Benny going to the doctor to ask about the new personalities he's acquired since his accident.  Now he waffles between straight thug and overgrown toddler.

 

"Tee Hee mom, I have a surprise for you."  Grow up.

        Wait. Don't forget the Control Freak who got all crazy over the attention his mother was getting from the dead child's grandfather (sorry, I'm blanking on the character's name). As if Hannah's not a fully grown woman who can handle her own affairs. And she certainly didn't seem to be put off by anything the grandfather was sending her way...

    

I think TP is still trying to decide who he wants Benny to be. Frankly, I'm starting to miss Coma Benny.

[selhars]

It's not believable to me that Candace hadn't watched TV or checked Twitter to know that Amanda had died. Yeah she's self-absorbed but someone with all her schemes wouldn't be out-of-touch with the real world for very long. At the very least she would have wanted to check out the fallout from the big press conference she knew Jim would miss. That was funny though when she ghosted on Landon like Batman.

 

Yeah I thought that too. But it's TP, after all....

And as for her leaving Langdon at the table.....Can a person really get up an you not see them leave like that...give me a break. I know he was checking his phone but really?....

Edited February 18, 2015 by selhars

[bichonblitz]

Oh, and did JIM hear Wyatt say Veronica had Jeffrery's car....He should have if he'd been standing there. But I suppose we already know we're in store for..."What did you say".... "What do you mean" "What did you say" conversation....I hope Wyatt DOES continue to spill the beans. We do see that they struggle over the bottle of alcohol.

And didn't he over hear all that  AFTER he just unzipped the body bag his dead daughter was in and saw her brains half blown away? Stupid show. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by bichonblitz

[Bill C.]

Renee Lawless has kind of carried these past two episodes, if in a generally quiet vein.  At least until Katheryn put Jim on total blast last night for screwing her up at the age of fifteen, let alone dragging Celine by her hair.  Speaking of Celine, though...considering her general attitude throughout the series to this point, for her to be that bent out of shape by Amanda's death--almost as much as Jim and Katheryn--is increasingly curious.  But if she already has two kids with Jim...they wouldn't seriously throw in a paternity reveal on a dead girl, would they?

 

Benny and Erica the redshirt's car...I've seen it suggested online that that was actually Jeffery's missing car, but I can't see it.  Veronica, as control-superfreaky as she is, wouldn't be that sloppy with a blackmail chip of that size.  That said, Benny's tonal personality shifts are just a little jarring...cheer him down just a bit more, show.

 

Wyatt and Jeffery, meanwhile?  I can actually get behind Wyatt's self-loathing and slow (visually) descent into the bottle, and even his lashing out at Jim and to a lesser degree Katheryn works, but he's just being a dick to Jeffery (and not in the way that Jeffery would prefer) and that kind of bugs me.  Considering how everybody basically steps on poor Jeff, though, I'm starting to hope that he finally snaps on his own, goes off on Mommie Blofeld Dearest, and straight up runs off with Landon to run some California politico's campaign or something.

 

It's not believable to me that Candace hadn't watched TV or checked Twitter to know that Amanda had died. Yeah she's self-absorbed but someone with all her schemes wouldn't be out-of-touch with the real world for very long. At the very least she would have wanted to check out the fallout from the big press conference she knew Jim would miss. That was funny though when she ghosted on Landon like Batman.

 

 

I can kind of let this slide, considering that in-show this is still the day after Jim was kidnapped.  Even by soap logic it's not that much of a leap for her self-absorption (or rather her sociopathy?): she did spend the entire night torturing Jim, then spent that morning waiting for him to wire her $7.4M; after she got him dressed and on his way to the bus stop, it was all "Wahahahaaaa!  I won!  I'm gonna shop my tight little ass off!"  Sure, she might have thought to check in on the press conference since Jim mentioned it, but probably not in the name of assuming it was a trainwreck and inconsequential because she won, blah blah obsessioncakes.  At least she got clued in by a recurring character instead of a random one-off like Jim did.

 

And having said that...if the show is going to try to make us think Candace actually cared about Amanda now, depending on how you interpret her getting the hell out after Landon dropped that bomb on her...yeah, that ship sank something like twenty episodes ago.

[Scootman]

I think Candace did care about Amanda in her own twisted way. I'm sure she'll blame her parents for the suicide, which puts her in the same boat as Wyatt. So we're clear -- Katherine blames Jim, who blames Candace, who will blame Jim and Katherine.

 

Katherine's "1979" speech was fantastic. Usually these scenes are way too long and disjointed, but she was mesmerizing. And John S. is not a master thespian, but I thought Jim's stunned, sick look during the monologue was the right touch.

 

Some other thoughts:

 

Didn't see the reversal on the murder/suicide coming, and glad they did it.

 

Celine is an unbearable shrew, but she's right, she really can't be fired. Those two kids are sticks of dynamite which can destroy the Cryer family.

 

So, Landon, Jeffrey and Candace as a trifecta of doom to finally take down Veronica? Count me in.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Scootman

[Joimiaroxeu]

But if she already has two kids with Jim...they wouldn't seriously throw in a paternity reveal on a dead girl, would they?

Did you mean "maternity reveal"? Do we know for sure that Katheryn gave birth to Amanda or was she adopted? That would be amazing (in a soap opera way) if it comes out that Celine is actually Amanda's mother.

 

Benny and Erica the redshirt's car...I've seen it suggested online that that was actually Jeffery's missing car, but I can't see it.  Veronica, as control-superfreaky as she is, wouldn't be that sloppy with a blackmail chip of that size.

It would be a retcon. I'm pretty sure Jeffrey's car was a Mercedes and this car looked to be a Chrysler or Dodge. Plus, Jeff's car should have body damage and googly-eyed Benny would/should have noticed. Of course though, TP would totally try to pull a fast one and assume none of the audience would notice that the cars were different models.

[selhars]

You'd think Celine would be devastated IF Amanda were hers. (For example if the Cryers made her give her to them. I can't imagine her knowing that info and not having a reaction that wouldn't be more 'obvivous.' Even if she didn't raise Amanda like a nanny/governess, she was at least around her all her life so I can't see her having the reaction we saw...which was more about Jim than Amanda.  

 

If -- IF Celine were Amanda's mother....the ONLY -- only way I'd accept that would be if Celine put her up for adoption, and didn't know Amanda was hers. Also, why wasn't that mentioned in Kathryn's monologue some how.....((I wanted a child so badly....and we finally adopted one...and now she's dead, or whatever))

 

Alls this has me wondering about every one's age again.

Also, how old are all these adult kids. If Amanda was in law school -- AND not her first year either -- AND if Amanda has missed just say ONE year of school because of her mental issues.....that would make her??? What? ....22? And Wyatt is older right? SO he's say, what?? 25? And Celine's son said he'd finished school right, so that would make him anywhere from -- but wait how old did Kathryn say -- or infer the older by is?  Is he BETWEEN Wyatt and Amanda's age, or younger than Amanda...'cause he sure didn't look under 22, or even 25...when he was talking to Celine and Jim in the study.

 

And Jeffrey was going for his MASTER's (not just his bachelors?) ....so he's about 24? And Benny and Candace are about?.....25 and 22?

 

If Kathryn was 16 in 1979, that makes her 52.....so you want to say Jim is 54?

 

As for the car, I know TP is sloppy about details and backstory, but for this to be Jeffrey's car. would really be unforgivable. What did Ronnie do have the car repaired, change the make and model, and sell it? Well, it was in HER name.....Hey, CHARACTERS can have accidents and facelifts and come back as a new actor....why not a car? (Please G-d no)

 

But you'd think it would have to be the car....other than that what is TP doing....writing filler scenes that go nowhere just to fill extra time when an episode runs short? If it IS the car...that would mean HANNAH now has the car.....and IF it's been repaired and sold....is the trail on it too cold for it to matter now? WHO would recognize it?......BUT, if Jim heard Wyatt say Veronica had the car...she can now say...she doesn't (present tense) have it. So actually that development removes her threat over Jeffrey.....I wonder if THAT would turn him against her -- finally.....that she blackmailed him with a car she repaired sold and doesn't even have anymore. Ooooh I know that would have steam coming out of my ears!

 

What plot possibilities do you all see with any of this?

Edited February 19, 2015 by selhars

[Joimiaroxeu]

If -- IF Celine were Amanda's mother....the ONLY -- only way I'd accept that would be if Celine put her up for adoption, and didn't know Amanda was hers. Also, why wasn't that mentioned in Kathryn's monologue some how.....((I wanted a child so badly....and we finally adopted one...and now she's dead, or whatever))

There's a tried and true soap opera way to deal with all this. Katheryn and Celine were pregnant at the same time and went into labor at about the same time. Katheryn's baby didn't make it so Jim arranged to take Celine's baby and present it to Katheryn as her own. He pays off anyone who could rat him out. The only question would be how much Katheryn and Celine now know about Amanda's true maternity, if they know anything at all.

 

I have to say though, it would seem kind of silly to wait until after Amanda's dead to make an issue of who her real mother is. The only thing the truth coming out now would do is blow up Jim's political future and that's likely to happen anyway between the dirt Candace, Wyatt, and Celine already have the ability to let loose.

[selhars]

IF the car was Jeffery's (Veronica's) that would be interesting......

Edited February 19, 2015 by selhars

[Scootman]

I don't think Celine is Amanda's real Mom. Two illegitimate sons is more than enough BabyDaddy trouble for Jim, and Katherine wouldn't be as devastated by the death of Jim and Celine's love child. I'm sure Katherine gave birth to her, 

[bichonblitz]

Why are we questioning if Celine might be Amanda's mother? Was something said in the last episode that I missed? I know it was revealed that Celine had 2 of Jim's kids, not just one, but what does that have to do with Amanda? 

Edited February 20, 2015 by bichonblitz

[Bill C.]

That's some of us possibly reading too much into how out of sorts Celine was in these last two episodes, bichonblitz.  Somebody suggested it could be more about her and Jim rather than her and Amanda, especially if the show's already given her two kids with Jim, but either way she was angsting--in her bitchy way--just as hard as Jim was.  Albeit a long way behind Katheryn and Wyatt the Dick in that regard.

[selhars]

Why are we questioning if Celine might be Amanda's mother? Was something said in the last episode that I missed? I know it was revealed that Celine had 2 of Jim's kids, not just one, but what does that have to do with Amanda?

 

Heavens no...and she'd better not be:) Some of us were just bandying about various what ifs or possible plot twists....

 

 TVForever started it...:):) JUST KIDDING....

I'm usually good at guessing plot turns, so none of this really shocked me. Although I have to admit, I've suspected for some time that Celine was going to turn out to be Amanda's biological mother. Turns out I was part right- she does have children with Jim, but it turned out to be 2 never before mentioned sons. Well, okay.

 

So some of us just picked up on that and played with it.

But no one thinks she is.....

Edited February 21, 2015 by selhars

[TVForever]

Why are we questioning if Celine might be Amanda's mother? Was something said in the last episode that I missed? I know it was revealed that Celine had 2 of Jim's kids, not just one, but what does that have to do with Amanda? 

 

That's some of us possibly reading too much into how out of sorts Celine was in these last two episodes, bichonblitz.  Somebody suggested it could be more about her and Jim rather than her and Amanda, especially if the show's already given her two kids with Jim, but either way she was angsting--in her bitchy way--just as hard as Jim was.  Albeit a long way behind Katheryn and Wyatt the Dick in that regard.

 

        For my part, it's just a feeling I've had since sometime last season. Celine didn't start out the series as the nutjob she was later revealed to be, but it seemed to become clear that she held much more sway in that household than someone who acted the way she did should have. I figured that she was either having an affair with Jim (which did turn out to be true), or that she was the birth mother of one of the Cryer children (which also turned out to be true, just not in the way I thought.) I was simply musing in this thread that it would have been so much better for the ongoing story if she were Amanda or Wyatt's mother(last season I was thinking either one; I settled on Amanda later on), because it would open up a whole new storyline for characters we already knew- Jim and Catherine's reaction to their secret coming out, Amanda's reaction to finding out she was actually the daughter of the family maid, Celine's anger(?) at not having anything to hold over their heads anymore, or no longer able to be near the beloved daughter she couldn't acknowledge; stuff like that. I guess all of that could still play out, but with a son that we've only seen once, and another whom we've never seen and didn't even know existed until a sudden reveal a week ago (and even that was in the middle of a larger emotional speech by Catherine, so it could have almost been missed if you weren't really paying attention), I don't think it would have the same impact.

 

So I was just musing through a, "Hey, wouldn't it be something if...?" moment. Of course, with the way Celine has/hasn't acted in response to Amanda's death, I know there's no way things could head in that direction. I'll just wait and see what happens next. I guess that's why Tyler Perry's name is all over the credits, and not mine, right,lol?

[sereion]

Katherine's speech and her beatdown to Celine was everything....that is all. I just love her, period. Oh, and Jeffery?  Jamal called: He has an extra spine he can loan you.

[selhars]

PROPS! to the person who said Veronica would get back on the pills!:) I'm sick of her though. i hope SHE kills HERself.

WHY didn't TP let the scene between Kathryn and Veronica go on.....I bet Kathryn was in the mood to say "bring it bitch..."

OMG, when she hung up on Jeffrey....

LIKES: Hannah and Candace in the hotel

DISlikes: Langdon, Candace and Maggie (Is Maggie a whuss (sp?), or just above wallowing. Because she has let Veronica and Candace both dog her out.

Edited February 25, 2015 by selhars

[Scootman]

So am I to understand that Candace was molested at the age of 5 and didn't get any help? Some 20-plus years later, after seeing Amanda blow her head off, Hannah suggests that therapy would be a good idea? Way to be on top of things, Hannah.

 

That scene was great though. And she would have to shoot Candi herself to be a worse mom than Veronica.

[Brooklynista]

Has TP ever seen a villain in a movie? Has he ever walked thru the projects? Where is he getting his inspiration for this damn Quincy? It's so bad that it's painful to me.

[bichonblitz]

Uh oh, I have a feeling Jeffrey is finally seeing the light with mommy dearest. I see a beat down in the near future for Veronica. Can't wait.

 

Jim is really a worthless piece of shit. Everybody coming down on him, calling him out on his shit and he doesn't have a word to say to defend himself. Not a word. I'm starting to feel good about Candy cane extorting all that money from him. He deserves it. Hope she gets away with it, Kathryn and Wyatt walk out on him, David turns his back on him, and he is left alone and broke. Then justice will be served for Judge Cryer. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by bichonblitz

[selhars]

^^ That would be an interesting development.....but.... I'm willing to bet the campaign continues. No in real life you would think it wouldn't, but this is TP World.

1) (not that they are the decision makers, but Langdon and Maggie are talking about  Jim's support numbers going through the roof

2) HE wants is -- and you sure as hell know VERONICA wants it.

 

In real life:

-- perhaps Jim would drop out and David would move up to the top of the ticket and there'd be another Lt candidate.

-- And THIS is what REALLY gets me -- after all the fights, and talking about secrets stuff) that was done WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THE ROOM, no way all this shit wouldn't get out...and that alone would destroy his campaign before it got started.  IF you look in some of the scenes there are people in street clothes, who are not dressed as cops. Who knows who those scene fillers were supposed to be. But you to mean to tell me now one heard ANY thing, or saw ANYthing that could ruin this guys campaign?! Heck the cops were still there when Catherine did her 1979 speech and kicks Celine's ass. 

 

3) Kathryn's standing?...in her speech, did she still say she'd never let him go just to punish his ass. I know she'd said she hated him, and wanted to ruin him and make his life hell? Right? But I don't remember whether she was done with the "I'll never let you go' part? or planned to punish and ruin him -- while STILL standing by his side as he runs for governor.....but hey, it's not like it hasn't been done...IN REAL LIFE:) (no names, please but I think we know who they are:):))

 

As for Jeffrey....do we know for sure that he DOES know Candace is at the hotel. Have se ween her tell him where, I know they talked on thw phone, but did she say specifically where she was? ALso technically she could be a ANY hotel. She couldn't just say I checked into A hotel. She'd have to say I checked into the "XYZ name hotel" So he could be telling the truth -- he doesn't know.

 

I think it would be a oh damn moment though if:

-- Quincy did kill Jeffrey then the shit really WOULD be on -- between David and Veronica

-- Ronnie would turn on Quincy, Quincy might try to come get her too, knowing she is the loose end

-- It's GOT to come out that SHE got him out of prison -- uh -- IN 24 HOURS. (tell me again how that happens? Anybody?)

-- All this would happen while Veronica was turning back to her pill addiction -- and crazy FOR REAL, FOR REAL!

 

DAMN.....! now THAT would be a storyline the two deaths...Amanda's and Jeffrey's back to back....you go TP! Talk about plot twists.....

The Carrington's and Cryers would have all kinds of shit going on!

Edited February 25, 2015 by selhars

[Joimiaroxeu]

So Ronnie has no problem bossing around the Cryer help staff but Jeffery must stay out of their family argument? Okay then, Veronica. Hypocrite much?

 

Man, the actor who plays Wyatt really stepped up his game for this episode. That was an intense scene in the kitchen.

 

Why would Jim keep the evidence of all his infidelity? The damage would be bad enough if some of his sidepieces started coming out of the woodwork on their own but to keep all the texts and emails? It'd be trivial for someone just to hack his phone and sell the hard evidence to TMZ or some such. Dumbass.

 

Did I hear correctly, did Veronica actually call Quincy a "c***"? Seriously? Between her flinging around "boy" and "c***", I'm starting to wonder if she's in the KKK Ladies Auxiliary. Meanwhile, guess we're going to find out that she is in fact paying Melissa to seduce Jeffery. I'm betting we're also going to find out--perhaps much later down the road--that Ronnie is a lesbian who's managed to live a straight life with David and that's why she thinks Jeffrey can do it too.

 

Was anyone else hoping that after tumbling about a bit, Jeffrey and Quincy would start making out? Yeah, no that 's probably not going to happen...

 

Way to be on top of things, Hannah.

AFAIC, Hannah can ESAD. She's all but called Candace a disciple of Satan and wished her dead. Now we find out Candace was molested as a child? That's kind of like blaming the victim, to say the least.

 

As for Jeffrey....do we know for sure that he DOES know Candace is at the hotel. Have se ween her tell him where, I know they talked on thw phone, but did she say specifically where she was?

She thanked him for the hookup so presumably he used some influence to get her in that hotel. Sounds to me like he knows exactly where she is. Good on him for protecting his friend Candace when his own mommy is perfectly fine with Quincy assaulting him.

[bichonblitz]

 

AFAIC, Hannah can ESAD. She's all but called Candace a disciple of Satan and wished her dead. Now we find out Candace was molested as a child? That's kind of like blaming the victim, to say the least.

 

 

It sounds like a twist that TP and his stupidness thought up at the last minute. Benny would have known about that, he is so close with Candycane. I swear TP writes the scripts one week at a time, changing plots along the way.

[Brooklynista]

I'm very curious about the kind of church folk TP hangs out with. Hannah, a staunchly Christian woman has spent the better part of how many seasons calling her daughter everything but a child of God to then say "oh yeah, since you were molested you might need some counseling" OK then.

Benny is still weirdly stupid.

Whatever her name is has replaced Amanda as the grown ass woman speaking in a childlike, doofy tone. Really girl? You're ready to make this gay man your husband because you "like" him?

I keep feeling like Tyler is trying to tell me something.

[bichonblitz]

Whatever her name is has replaced Amanda as the grown ass woman speaking in a childlike, doofy tone. Really girl? You're ready to make this gay man your husband because you "like" him?

 

When she was talking to David on the phone and he was telling her that Jeffrey was gay, gay , gay, and then the camera panned over to her sitting next to someone in the hospital bed, who was that? I totally missed what that was supposed to be about. Was it just another last minute story line from TP that will go nowhere?  

[Scootman]

 

When she was talking to David on the phone and he was telling her that Jeffrey was gay, gay , gay, and then the camera panned over to her sitting next to someone in the hospital bed, who was that? I totally missed what that was supposed to be about. Was it just another last minute story line from TP that will go nowhere?

It looked sort of like Benny's natural father that wanted him to die so he could have some of his body parts.

 

I do think Melissa is taking money to go after Jeffrey, probably to pay hospital bills.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Scootman

[selhars]

I think the guy in the hospital is Melissa's father -- but the actor didn't look like the same actor who played Benny's dad. (to me anyway) but technically that character COULD be recast. But he could also be the father of them both -- because he did have a wife and other kids. 

 

(and of course we're going to find out Ronnie is paying Melissa. I thought the screen would pull back to us seeing a check or her bank account on a computer screen showing a deposit from ronnie)

Edited February 26, 2015 by selhars

[bichonblitz]

Ahhhh, thank you. Makes perfect sense that Ronnie is paying Melissa.

[bichonblitz]

Well, that was a whole lotta boring nothing last night. The scene with Jeffrey getting his ass beat was too long, the scene with David and Candy going back and forth in the hotel lounge was too long. No Veronica at all. Now that Candy successfully has her millions, what is Tyler Perry going to do with her? It's rediculous that she wants to go to the Cryer house to pay respects to Jim. If it were real life, she wouldn't get past the gate. But this is Perryland, so I guess there is no gated entrance to the Judges house. 

 

Kathryn continues to kill it this season. Love her. Does anybody know this actress from other roles? She is really talented. 

[JustDuckie]

Yeah I thought that too. But it's TP, after all....

And as for her leaving Langdon at the table.....Can a person really get up an you not see them leave like that...give me a break. I know he was checking his phone but really?....

At the very least he would be all " Hey Candy, get back here and pay for all the champagne and shots you just ordered! I just got fired ya know!"

[JustDuckie]

And I know this is a completely superficial and irrelevant observation but...can someone PLEASE tell Maggie to wash her hair? It constantly looks like day-old-dirty. Yuck.

[GrtGzu]

Why hasn't Amanda's room been taped off with crime scene tape and why isn't Serv-Pro there to clean it up???

 

Why do people who actually HAVE peepholes in their door NEVER look thru them before just randomly opening the door for anybody?

 

Why is Celine still coming to work after she got cave-woman-dragged-out-the house last time she was there?

[Joimiaroxeu]

Jeffery doesn't have a laptop or a tablet he could have used to get help? That is utterly unbelievable.

Hannah can shut up any day now. Maybe she should spend more time examining her own sins instead of continuing to study Candace's. It's dumbfounding that TP holds this woman up as some kind of all-knowing paragon of virtue who gets her instructions directly from heaven. She wields her piety as both a weapon and an escape hatch and IMO is bordering on looking like a Pharisee.

"Don't wake the dog."? I thought the expression was, "Don't poke the bear"? Anyway, "when I hunt, I stalk. I lie in wait" sounds more like a big cat (e.g., mountain lion or leopard) than a dog.

David knows Candace is basically a gangster. Odds are she's going to get whoever interviews her into a compromising position and then blackmail her way into a job. Why would David get her an interview with a reputable law firm knowing that whatever nastiness she's going to pull to get the job could blow back on him?
 

the scene with David and Candy going back and forth in the hotel lounge was too long

Yep, and Candy's dialogue seemed like it was written by a 12-year-old. Does every word that comes out her mouth have to be laden with middle school-level sexual innuendo? It's starting to sound like something from 1970s blaxploitation movie. Meanwhile, whoever's writing Katheryn's dialogue has turned it up to 11 the past couple of episodes. I almost want to call it Emmy-worthy.

[phelps1252]

Veronica aka Ronnie

 

Why is Tyler writing the character Veronica into such a dark, evil place.  I mean, this season she has gotten so cruel and mean for seemingly no reason.  She talks down to wait staff, police officers, hotel staff, not to mention she chastises her husband every chance she gets.  Thanks to Tyler's writing, she now will allow her only child to get beaten up, possibly killed...again for no good reason.

 

I am still shocked that with all the episodes this season, we are still just one day after Amanda killed herself.  Tyler's episodes move about as fast as God does in finding Tyler that wife he bought that house for.  You remember, it had such HUGE closets and he told Oprah, he is waiting for God to send him his wife.  (side eye)

 

Why is Tyler so fascinated about men getting aroused.  He is forever writing lines with Candace looking at a man's crotch and saying "I see you like it" or "That's not what this says".   Quincy telling Jeffrey he would be snapped up in the pen (jail) and marveling at Jeffrey's skin was really quite odd and seemed to hint at Tyler's own "secret" fantasies. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by phelps1252

[selhars]

I only get the chance to watch the show while at work and  since I was off last Tuesday and will be this one coming up, won't get to see it for two weeks straight.

 

After reading comments about this past week, I can see why I need to take breaks from this show. Example:

DAVID is going to get Candace an interview at a law firm? WHY? What does she have on HIM (or Veronica for that matter), that would make him do that?

David continues to disappoint.

 

Honestly nothing about what's happening makes me want to come back at all....